Speedy may return? breaking news

[TheCat5]

What the hell?

UPDATED: Claxton may stay; Horry gets offer from Spurs

By Glenn Rogers
Express-News Staff Writer

Web Posted : 07/22/2003 5:30 PM

There could be a wrinkle in the reports that Spurs backup point guard Speedy Claxton has joined the Golden State Warriors.
Claxton reportedly has agreed to a three-year, $10 million contract to take over the starting point guard slot that opened when Gilbert Arenas agreed to a $65 million deal with the Washington Wizards.

But a source has indicated that Claxton told Spurs coach Gregg Popovich that he would remain with the team if the Spurs matched the Warriors' offer.

In other news, the Spurs have extended an offer to Los Angeles Lakers forward Robert Horry, according to league sources.

Claxton opened the eyes of league watchers when he took over at point guard for Tony Parker with five minutes left in the third period of Game 6 of the NBA Finals against New Jersey.

He finished that quarter and played the entire fourth period while Parker watched from the bench, scoring 9 points in helping San Antonio win its second NBA title in franchise history.

Claxton averaged 4.9 points through the six-game series.

He left the Spurs because he wants a be a starting point guard with a starting point guard's salary

The guard played two seasons with Philadelphia before being traded to the Spurs for forward Mark Bryant and the Spurs 2002 26th draft pick, John Salmons.

Horry has been offered a two-year contract by the Spurs, league sources said.

Horry played the past 6½ years with the Los Angeles Lakers and was on their last three championship teams.

Terms of the pact have not been disclosed, but the second year of the deal reportedly is at the team's option.

www.mysanantonio.com/spor...lc=1029040 (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/story.cfm?xla=saen&xlb=211&xlc=1029040)

[ShoogarBear]

JUMP ON IT, POP!

[ChumpDumper]

The hell is Ghost now?

Please do Pop. Most other guys worth a crap would cost close to that anyway.

[DeSPURado]

BAD FUCKIN ASS! Speedy showing the loyalty...there wasn't a better backup out there.

[Holy Sith]

Even Claxton knows its getting tougher in the west.

Match the offer!

Sith

[KoriEllis]

I was told yesterday that the Spurs were trying to work on Speedy but that he thought he was going to GS or Washington.

If he has given the Spurs the opportunity to match his GS deal, then I think/hope that they will.

[grjr]

If the Spurs can keep Speedy then it will cap off a very good day.

jr

[genghisrex]

This would certainly take some of the sting out of the offseason.

[gospurs21]

and the price is right. I always though a 9M over 3yrs was about right. Now, if we can lock up Jax for 12-13M over 3yrs that would be perfect.

It has been reported (ESPN) that Spree will go to T-pups....WOW

Go Spurs....

[SpursFanInAustin]

Come on Pop and RC. Keep the core together. Sign him to 3 yrs worth 11 or 12 million. This is a guy I wanted the Spurs to extend his option for 03-04, but they declined for the "Holting Pattern" to sign a "MAX" FA. Well we didnt get anyone, so do whatever it takes to keep him here. If it means overpaying then so be it.

[SanAntonioBard]

Speedy 3M
Horry 5M short deal
Pike 4M short deal


over the cap for Jack for 3-4M

Look at a healthy Manu for 82 games as a new acquisition, too. :wink


This should still leave them enough room to beat MCE offers next year for Manu.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Speedy to the rescue? Again?

AHF

[grjr]

Jack is not going to get 3-4 million per year. I don't know where people get this idea. $7 million for 3 years with a team option on the 4th sounds about max for Jack.

If you say that Jack was a starter for us then I say he was starter because of default. Not because he was really starting material for a championship team. I like Jack a lot and want to keep him but he is not worth very much money to any other team.

jr

[ChumpDumper]

True, a lot of posters were pegging Claxton for the full MLE as well....

[MannyIsGod]

MATCH AND MATCH NOW!!!

I will join ghost in bitching if pop doesn't match it if he has the chance, thats a very reasonable price.

[MadeFromDust]

The Spurs have the money. Speedy wants to stay. There's no excuse if Speedy's wearing a Woeyours uni next season.

[Cassius Clay]

You guys want to keep Claxton that's understandable. But what if doing so means that the most you can offer Ginobili next summer is the NBA average salary?

Something to think about.

[ChumpDumper]

We'd have been in the same boat if we sign Jack to a multiyear deal.

I'll roll the dice.

[grjr]

Cassius, with all the built-in salary increases next year how are we going to be able to save 6 or 7 million in cap space anyways? Plus, we don't know if the cap will actually go down next year.

jr

[Solid D]

If this is true...and Claxton ends up going to GS anyway...there will be a major uprising among Spurs fans!

It would be so wrong on so many levels.

[Cassius Clay]

No. If you sign Jack to a deal you still could retain enough to make Manu an offer in the $7 mil range, assuming the other portion of your remaining cap room went to one year deals.

If they match this deal to Clax and then sign Jack they will be setting themselves up to only be able to offer Manu the average salary.

[ChumpDumper]

So we should just go from one Holt-ing pattern to another onward into infinity?

Not a fan of the "Groundhog Day" strategy.

I'd rather try to talk Jack into a one-year lowball contract to make him a full Bird FA at that time as well.

What do you think the cap is going to be next year anyway?

Did you predict $43.8 million for this summer?

I sure didn't.

[Cassius Clay]

I'm just saying...some fans who now want the Spurs to match the offer to Claxton should be aware of the consequences so that when they bitch next summer about the Spurs being limited in their ability to make Ginobili an offer they will know why. There are some here who need to have this explained to them...again and again and again and again....

[MannyIsGod]

I think this is a reasonable offer for speedy, and I think we need to worry more about right now then next summer for once.

Besides, 3 mil to speedy, 3 mil to jax, you should still have about 6 next summer , that shoudl be enough for manu.

[Cassius Clay]

They'd be hard pressed to clear about $6 mil next summer should they also sign Jack to a multi-year deal.

[grjr]

Charlotte would have to be nice enough to take Malik in the expansion draft. Then we would have enough (assuming we actually would need more than the MLE to sign Manu anyways).

[goliath]

If true this jibes with what Id heard going into FA.

I could have sworn I saw an interview with Speedy where he said he wanted to stay but had to consider his family, ect (ie $$$). He said he had never been around such great guys in his life and it was more like a family than a job. Also said he really liked and appreciated the org and Pop and talked about how most teams would have pressured him into rushing back from his sholder but the Spurs actually made him wait longer than he wanted. Made him realize they thought of him as a person and not just a player.

I got the impression that if the Spurs were in the ballpark money-wise hed stay. But then I only heard he was gone so i figured Id just read something into. But now I guess maybe not.

[TwoHandJam]

Do it!

[Cassius Clay]

Of course, this could be a ploy by Claxton & his agent to get more $$$ from the Warriors. A 3 year $10 mil deal is a little low for a starting point.

[timvp]

Reason why Pop wouldn't do it:

1) He wants to keep caproom open next summer for Manu.

2) He wants to put more pressure on Parker to be the second star. He may see Speedy as a safeguard that might keep Parker from reaching his potential.


Speedy is a top 3 backup point guard in the league, so this should be a pretty straight-forward decision.

Pop and RC will do what is right according to their short-term and long-term plans.

[ChumpDumper]

$3 million is right for a china doll like Claxton.

I can see Pop going either way on this, a backup is only going to play about 10-12mpg anyway. There are many players who can fill that role.

[Admiral]

Haven't we learned our lesson? There should be no question that we re-sign Speedy. You take what's on the table now. Unlike next summer's free agency, it's a sure thing.

I'm all for planning ahead, but failing to obtain a backup PG simply because you "think" you might not have enough for Manu - who, I might add, is yet to start a game in a Spurs uniform - is downright foolish.

[Cassius Clay]

Then don't bitch next summer when Ginobili walks about the 'horrible' Spurs front office, Mr. 20/20.

[Morphgizmo]

2) He wants to put more pressure on Parker to be the second star. He may see Speedy as a safeguard that might keep Parker from reaching his potential.

That's indeed an issue, but I see it having the opposite effect.

Speedy (if retained) will do more to push TP than make him complacent. I could see Tony getting away with more slacking if he didn't have a guy behind him that has the skills to take his job.

[ChumpDumper]

Hell, if it's Manu we're worried about, just give Speedy 5 or 6 million for a year and see if he bites.

[Cassius Clay]

It would be more advantageous next summer for the Spurs to sign Ginobili with his Early Bird rights to a deal because then the Spurs would also be able to use their MLE on another player(s)...such as perhaps Turkoglu if things went the Spurs way.

[gospurs21]

clay,
please explain to me how we have 12M now
sign Speedy for 3M
sign Jax for 4M (high end)

that leaves 5M left for Horry on a two year deal, team option the second year.

how do we not have 5M + MLE for next season for Manu?

Go Spurs...

[Cassius Clay]

You need more than $5 mil because the guaranteed payroll is going to be increasing and will probably grow at a higher rate than then cap is growing.

Also, $5 mil is the average NBA salary this season. The Spurs are going to need potentially up to $7 to 8 mil, I'm afraid next summer to re-up Ginobili, unless he opts to take a little less.

[ChumpDumper]

If Ginobili is signed using Early Bird rights, the most he can make IS the league average.

[Cassius Clay]

That's my point.

[ChumpDumper]

If that's your point, why are you talking about saving capspace over the midlevel?

[Cassius Clay]

Because the Spurs may have to be able to offer more than the average salary to retain Ginobili.

[Admiral]

I am amazed that some people here have no problem giving Robert Horry $5 million a year to be our "Danny Ferry replacement," yet are violently opposed to giving Speedy Claxton $3 million a year to be our backup point guard. If you don't want Speedy, who are you planning on getting as our backup point guard?

If you're looking to save room for Ginobili, cut Horry's contract and not Speedy's. I find it difficult to believe that we couldn't have had Horry for less to begin with.

[ChumpDumper]

Horry's deal is only one year.

Next.

[baseline bum]

Then don't bitch next summer when Ginobili walks about the 'horrible' Spurs front office, Mr. 20/20.

Why are you changing up on us, Spurs Fan? Back in the No Limit days a month ago we were going to have no problem reatining Manu for the %5.2 million or so the MLE will prob be at next season.

Horry is about as good of a signing as one can make for a role player, and I'm excited to see the door is left open to bring Speedy back, **** Piatkowski now; he has no place on this team.

Why all the freaking hate for Jax? The guy put up 12 a game and he's not worth $3 million starting? Nevermind he's by far the best clutch shooter the team has had since Elie.

[Cassius Clay]

That's because Horry's deal is for one year guaranteed. Claxton's deal would be for 3 years and count against the cap next summer.

I'm not opposed to the Spurs' matching Claxton, I'm saying that some of you need to recognize the implications of that deal for re-signing Ginobili next summer.

[Cassius Clay]

Why are you changing up on us, Spurs Fan? Back in the No Limit days a month ago we were going to have no problem reatining Manu for the %5.2 million or so the MLE will prob be at next season.


Well that problem would've existed should the Spurs have landed a JO or Brand. Given that the Spurs didn't land one of those then the import of ensuring you retain Ginobili increases.

[Admiral]

I'm saying that some of you need to recognize the implications of that deal for re-signing Ginobili next summer. -Cassius Clay

I just don't know what we would do if you weren't here to guide us, Cassius. :rolleyes

Although I thought that Horry's deal was two years instead of one, so maybe I shouldn't be so quick to say that. :lol

[SanAntonioBard]

The talk that I've heard is 2 years, TEAM option on year two, Admiral. Consider it a one year contract for all intents and purposes.

[mattyc2422]

Dude, if we can get Speedy, get him.

It'll be a shame if he goes to the hellhole in GS.

[gospurs21]

I still don't understand why we don't have the MLE (~5M) + 5M (Horry's slot) = 10M to offer Manu. I don't think he will command more than 5-6M. Are you saying if we have the 5M then we don't have the MLE?

How many team will have that much under the cap available?

Go Spurs...

[Cassius Clay]

The average salary ~ $5 mil for this season. The thing is that it is certainly conceivable if Ginobili continues to exhibit his all around clutch game that teams will bid more than the average for him next season.

Also, Horry's deal would be coming off the books next summer but the other contracts the Spurs have will be increasing and you cannot count on the cap increasing at the same rate.

[grjr]

Bah...Now Rogers is saying that Speedy is going to GS. Shit.

[Cassius Clay]

Oh well, at least now we are guaranteed even more bitching and monday morning quarterbacking from Spurs fans.

[50 Cent]

We either will have money under the cap or the MLE if over the cap. But still, I don't think Manu will command more than the MLE next year. He will be unrestricted and if he signs for one more year we will have his Bird rights. There won't be many teams under the cap next year to offer Manu more than the MLE and he supposedly loves playing for Pop and being in SA, so I don't think it is going to be too much of a problem resigning him with the MLE next year.

If we can keep Speedy for a 3yr/10M deal, you have to do it. We would actually probably be increasing our depth from last season with the addition of Horry and Rasho if we are able to keep Speedy and SJax. We can worry about Manu next year. We can always sign him to a 1 year deal for the MLE next year and give him a nice big K the following year when we have his bird rights.

[Mark in Austin]

If you're under the cap you don't have the Mid Level Exemption, which is designed to allow teams that are over the cap to be able to sign players.

[Cassius Clay]

Ginobili will be an Early Bird rights free agent next summer. That means the Spurs will be able to sign him to a contract starting at the NBA average next summer without using the MLE. Such a deal would have to be for at least two years.

Should Ginobili put in a solid season next year and yet again display his clutch all-around play in the postseason it is not inconceivable that he will receive offers greater than the MLE level.

[Mark in Austin]

I was thinking that the CBA doesn't allow you to use the MLE and early bird rights in the same summer...eh, I'm too tired tonight to look it up. I'll do it tomorrow.

[Cassius Clay]

It does.

[grjr]

Mark, I believe it says you can match offers up to the 'Average salary' which would be the same amount as the MLE.

jr

[Admiral]

Manu is not even a starter yet and some people are acting like it will take a max deal to keep him. No doubt he will be good, but I don't think that time has come yet.

[Cassius Clay]

There's a reason NY wanted him in return for Spree.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Just to cover all the bases:

Bogojevic (Utah Summer Leaguer) will be our "backup point", though Tony and Manu will see a majority of the minutes as "point".

As for next summer, here's what you're looking at right now as far as teams under the cap (I'm just ball parking, this doesn't include any of this summer's signings - based on a 44 million cap):

Miami, 14 million
Utah, 15 million (depending on what happens with Miller, this could go up)
Washington 6 mil
NOrleans 6 mil
Denver 13 million
Milwaukee 8 mil
Chicago 8 million
Warriors 8 million
Memphis 10 million


Like I said, some of these may have changed, I haven't factored in the current FA signings, but it should give you an idea - Miami, Utah, Denver, Milwaukee, Chicago, GS, and Memphis could all be threats, and don't kid yourself - Jerry West would love to get Manu.

AHF

[T Park Num 9]

Jerry West LOVES manu,

he wouldnt hesitate at all to get him!

[Nikos]

How do you know this TPARK?

[T Park Num 9]

Jerry West was quoted as of last year
that Manu Ginobili would be a star in this league.

Yes, lets not keep him right homers??? Gotta keep a back up point guard instead.

[Cassius Clay]

It will be interesting to see what the Spurs do with their remaining cap room ($7 mil). Maybe they should offer Piatkowksi a deal similiar to Horry's (1 year $4 mil) and then do the same for a backup point with the remaining $3 mil?

If they do that then they could remove up to $12 mil off the cap next summer. This is assuming that they don't use any of the $12 mil to sign multiyear guaranteed deals without a team option next summer. They'll take a hit on Jack's contract. I will not be surprised to see them offer him a longer term deal in exchange for a lower starting salary for Jack.

I think if the Spurs could get about $2 mil over the average salary in cap room next year then they will be able to make an offer to Ginobili that will be close to what he could see from other teams.

If it doesn't take that to re-sign Manu then the Spurs could re-up Ginobili using his Early Bird Rights, keep their bench, and add some talent using their MLE. Plus they will have their two picks next summer as well as Memphis' second rounder.

[Admiral]

Jerry West was quoted as of last year
that Manu Ginobili would be a star in this league.

Yes, lets not keep him right homers??? Gotta keep a back up point guard instead. -T Park num 9

And we know from that quote that West will make Manu an offer for $10 million a year. :rolleyes

Manu isn't even a starter yet, people. Relax.

[T Park Num 9]

the way Memphis is shaping up,

that second rounder will be a good one.


Memphis isnt improving at ALL!

[mattyc2422]

Vladi Bogojevic has a pretty good assist/minute ratio in the RMR from what I've read and seen.

Has big wraps on him, but he could be worthwhile.

[Cassius Clay]

The Spurs will face some competitive offers for Manu. I would not assume that the Spurs can keep him simply using his Early Bird rights. We've seen Golden State lose a player that way this summer.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

This one's a real dilemma - wanna keep Speedy, but I think this will be Manu's breakout season and 6-8mil will probably be his price next year.

If you're a risk taker you grab Speedy and hope for the best, if not you do the 1 year thing and keep plenty of money close at hand... but I can't make up my mind! :wtf

Actually, screw that. Manu is a big part of our future - I hate to say it, but I go back to the Holting Pattern to ensure that we can keep him, although it hurts 'cause Speedy rocks.