Is this really what NBA wants?

[gospursgojas]

A fucking 3 hour game of James Harden flailing around and then watching him shoot free throws? The Spurs were by far the most entertaining team on floor tonight. If it wasn’t James flopping around it was him dribbling for 18 of the 24 secs.

Isn’t there a test run to shoot only one free throw for all foul points going on in the G league right now because the NBA recognizes how boring and slow free throws makes the game? I don’t understand why they would contradict that and have a guy up there 24 times? It’s blatantly obvious that there is an agenda to get harden to line.

I guess manufacturing a superstar via the refs takes precedence over the speed and flow of game.

[apalisoc_9]

Hes averaging 17ppg from free throws alone. :lol

I'm actually considering quiting NBA and just focusing on spursball from now on.

[gospursgojas]

Hes averaging 17ppg from free throws alone. :lol

I'm actually considering quiting NBA and just focusing on spursball from now on.

I honestly considered the same. Aside from the actual free throws, the feeble attempts to get to line make game hard to watch as well. Goofy ass leaning shots with a off hand sideways heave towards basket instead of just shooting the damn ball is ridiculous. As is the out of control drives to basket with no intention to even position yourself for a layup but only to draw foul.

[apalisoc_9]

I honestly considered the same. Aside from the actual free throws, the feeble attempts to get to line make game hard to watch as well. Goofy ass leaning shots with a off hand sideways heave towards basket instead of just shooting the damn ball is ridiculous. As is the out of control drives to basket with no intention to even position yourself for a layup but only to draw foul.

its crazy how refs dont even consider anymore who initiates the contact.

[lefty]

What’s funny is when the refs ignore his antics in the playoffs :lol

[LkrFan]

What’s funny is when the refs ignore his antics in the playoffs :lol

:lol

[UZER]

I said it before, James Harden is the most annoying player I have ever watched, period. It’s beyond frustrating. It’s grind the game down so far it’s pretty much unwatchable. And its every damn possession of dribble dribble dribble between the legs over and over and over, then bait the refs with a shot or drive.

[FkLA]

They're actually fouls though. At least the ones on his drives. DeRozan draws those same type of fouls pretty regularly too he's just not a master of it like Harden is. There's some greatness/genius involved in being able to take advantage of defenders the way he does. He basically forces the defender to play defense on him with their arms by their side. That gives him a huge advantage throughout the game (on drives when he isn't fouled).

[swrowe78]

What I hate most about Harden's game is that it's basically making defenders afraid of getting a whistle so they play soft defense.

Defenders are scared to body him up and contest his three's. So they sag off. The defenders are pretty much handcuffed so he has good look after good look at 3's. He does size up dribbles and gets good looks at 3's all day. If you body up or handcheck he's just going to flail and get calls. Defenders fear the ref bait so they sag off and that's responsible for his shot-spacing. Same thing with the drive. When he drives, he hooks his arm on the defender creating contact. So defenders are going to step back when he drives because he's going to create contact and pretend to get fouled.

His game is size up dribble, size up dribble. If defenders get close he will flail and get free throws. Or maybe drive and create contact. Also there's the push offs. Sometimes with the step back jumper he pushes off.

[swrowe78]

They're actually fouls though. At least the ones on his drives. DeRozan draws those same type of fouls pretty regularly too he's just not a master of it like Harden is. There's some greatness/genius involved in being able to take advantage of defenders the way he does. He basically forces the defender to play defense on him with their arms by their side. That gives him a huge advantage throughout the game (on drives when he isn't fouled).
Uh, a lot of the time Harden is the one who creates the contact when driving. Defenders play defense with their arms on their side because they're afraid of the whistle. When he's coming down the lane, they all step back with their hands behind because he will actually reach with his arm in to you and make it seem he got fouled. Honestly, defenders fearing his ref baiting is more reason for his shot-spacing than the step back.

His game is derived on defenders getting another foul, so they play defense against him like he's got leprosy.

[UZER]

The sneaky arm grab would be tolerable if he used it sparingly. But no, he has to use it every time he puts the ball on the floor turning every game into a contest of how much can I get away, instead of just playing the damn game. Just so ugly to watch.

[gospursgojas]

The sneaky arm grab would be tolerable if he used it sparingly. But no, he has to use it every time he puts the ball on the floor turning every game into a contest of how much can I get away, instead of just playing the damn game. Just so ugly to watch.

This. Never has there been a player who creates moves and creates a game with the sole purpose of getting fouled. It used to be the goal was scoring...his game revolves solely around baiting the ref into a call. Actually putting ball in the bucket is secondary.

[Chris]

Some players are more equal than others.

[Chris Fall]

Likely not, but there is no easy fix.

Harden does his share of cheat gimmicks like the arm grab, but a good majority of his fouls are legitimate, even when he creates the contact. It’s the manipulation of the rules and the officials’ interpretation of those rules. But how do you restrict his ability to create all those foul scenarios? It’s not like you can limit the number of free throws an individual player can attempt per game. Not like you can remove the automatic defensive foul in the restricted half circle. Even if you try to legislate it better through the rules, Harden is the type of player with the type of skillset in the type of system that could still get 20+ free throws on any given night. He has the three point shot and the driving ability that puts defenders on skates, with a very sophisticated if not uncanny ability to make circus type shots at or near the rim. He has the bodytype and durability to take a game’s worth of physical contact night in and night out and still continue to search for more contact. He’s a very good free throw shooter who makes you pay for fouling him when you’re just trying to stop him from getting an easy bunny. And he’s playing in a system where he gets to iso all game long and put up as many shots up as he wants to have these ridiculous scoring outputs. And that’s even before you get into all his little tricks, like the arm grab or the multitude of travels he employs, the tug of his defender’s shorts, or the flopping.

The first step to at least tempering or corralling his scoring ability is to try to take away some of those cheats. Can’t give him all those walks he commits. Can’t bail him out when he’s the culprit who is holding onto the defender’s arm to make it look like a foul. Can’t give him any flops. That’s where it starts. With the officiating. It’s like Shaq or Iverson, LeBron to an extent. So uniquely difficult to officiate those types of players. But to be clear, the officials could start calling things better and Harden could still be a 40 point scorer with 20 free throws in tow without all the extra shit. And we’d still be complaining about how hard of a watch he is.

It’s likely not what the NBA wants. But what are they going to do about it? We can at least say that it hasn’t yet led to a championship. Heck not even an NBA Finals appearance yet.

[UZER]

It needs to be a team scheme. The guy defending him, crowd him to make him drive but put your hands so far away from him the refs can see them and he can’t grab them. You want him to drive. If he steps back for a 3, contest to the side like the Spurs were last night. If he drives, literally step away from him and let him go right past you. Don’t send help from the side at all where players usually reach, everyone just stay home on their man. Only the bigs step over to contest the shot AT THE RIM jumping only vertical if at all. If you can’t get there as a big, then just let him score the bucket. Don’t touch him at all. Don’t reach. Don’t give him free throws. He get so many calls when guys instinctively reach while he driving.

Once you have taken the free throws away, it will change the way he starts playing and confuse him. He lives to draw fouls. As the game wears on and you have been showing the refs all game you haven’t been fouling, then you can slowly start playing a little more physical in the 4th, or at least down the stretch of games.

His biggest weapon is paralyzing you by baiting you into fouls and awarding him free throws. Everything else he does stems from there. He uses your defense against every time which frustrates you. Don’t play that game. Contest 3s jumping to the side, let him get a layup if he drives.

This would be more for a playoff series more than just one game.

[Spurtacular]

Hes averaging 17ppg from free throws alone. :lol

I'm actually considering quiting NBA and just focusing on spursball from now on.

You should quite spursball too, tbh.

[Spurtacular]

To answer the question, yes this is really what the NBA wants.

[Chris]

It's what China wants

[Joseph Kony]

yeah, fuck james harden. dude is good at what he does but fuck what he does. his entire game is based on deception. every single play he drives, he hooks the defender with his right arm to subtly hold/pull them toward him at an angle so he can throw his left arm up under their outstretched hands that are now pointing slightly at angle because he's hooking them, and he gets the fucking call every single time. his flopping on 3s is even more ridiculous, as he almost always initiates the contact. there is a reason this dude has made 100+ more free throws than anyone else behind him. and it's not because he's such an amazing scorer. it's because he's a bitch ass con artist whose entire game is based on trying to draw fouls and sell contact. fuck james harden, and fuck houston tbh. i take great pleasure in the spurs being the team that sent them packing in 2017 and their continual choking every year in the playoffs :lol

[MultiTroll]

Players need to get proactive.
Cornbread Maxwell, SF on those early - mid 80's GOAT Celtic teams suggested doing as he did and falling on players who blatantly flop. Send them a message that a flop is going to be followed by a pancake type pin an offensive lineman does on a QB.

Gawd how I wish someone would have done that to Derek Swisher etc.

Imagine once twice then 3 4 5 6 times players would fall on Frauden even if it roughed him up a bit. He'd whine incessantly but it would certainly bring his b.s. to a head.

[apalisoc_9]

yeah, fuck james harden. dude is good at what he does but fuck what he does. his entire game is based on deception. every single play he drives, he hooks the defender with his right arm to subtly hold/pull them toward him at an angle so he can throw his left arm up under their outstretched hands that are now pointing slightly at angle because he's hooking them, and he gets the fucking call every single time. his flopping on 3s is even more ridiculous, as he almost always initiates the contact. there is a reason this dude has made 100+ more free throws than anyone else behind him. and it's not because he's such an amazing scorer. it's because he's a bitch ass con artist whose entire game is based on trying to draw fouls and sell contact. fuck james harden, and fuck houston tbh. i take great pleasure in the spurs being the team that sent them packing in 2017 and their continual choking every year in the playoffs :lol

damn..:lol

The level of harden hate is an alltime high now :lol

Dude be averaging 50 in a three game stretch fooling casuals...But then you look at Free throws made and hed average 21ppg of free throws alone :lmao.

Hes the most effective scorer in the history of the NBA

but come playoff time hes barely a top 5 scorer in his own era. The disparuty is sickening.

Harden has everyone fooled :lol

[namlook]

Harden is in a class by himself. The master of the offensive flop. Lou Williams is a step behind, but a solid #2 in annoying flops. And these guy whine when they don't get the call on their flops like they are entitled. Refs incompetence has created these monsters.

[Arcadian]

We can at least say that it hasn’t yet led to a championship. Heck not even an NBA Finals appearance yet.

This is the key right here. And his team is worse this season compared to last. As long as he keeps failing, I don't even care. Just let him keep doing his thing and keep failing.

[namlook]

Fred VanVleet is drinking the Kool-Aid

"I got League Pass so I watch the games every night and James is always a draw. You try to learn and take stuff from him, and every player dreams of drawing fouls the way he does... He's pretty special.....I haven't met a basketball player that doesn't appreciate it. It's the casual people that watch the game or a tied into some fantasy of what they think the game is about."

[ambchang]

Fred VanVleet is drinking the Kool-Aid

"I got League Pass so I watch the games every night and James is always a draw. You try to learn and take stuff from him, and every player dreams of drawing fouls the way he does... He's pretty special.....I haven't met a basketball player that doesn't appreciate it. It's the casual people that watch the game or a tied into some fantasy of what they think the game is about."

:lol today’s nba.

[FkLA]

Fred VanVleet is drinking the Kool-Aid

"I got League Pass so I watch the games every night and James is always a draw. You try to learn and take stuff from him, and every player dreams of drawing fouls the way he does... He's pretty special.....I haven't met a basketball player that doesn't appreciate it. It's the casual people that watch the game or a tied into some fantasy of what they think the game is about."

He's right.

If it's so easy why don't more players take advantage of defenders the way he does? Takes a certain amount of greatness to be able to do it.

[Mark Celibate]

They're actually fouls though. At least the ones on his drives. DeRozan draws those same type of fouls pretty regularly too he's just not a master of it like Harden is. There's some greatness/genius involved in being able to take advantage of defenders the way he does. He basically forces the defender to play defense on him with their arms by their side. That gives him a huge advantage throughout the game (on drives when he isn't fouled).


yeah I'm one of the few that appreciates some of the creativity he has in his game to draw fouls. especially the one where he brings the ball low and extends it. Once a defender reaches in, he goes straight up to shoot and it's a legitimate foul because he caught them in a bad position. Sure it's intentional but those are fouls and like you said, he forces defenders to play more lax on defense to keep from fouling. People can say it's not fun to watch and that he's exploiting loopholes in the game or whatever, but there's a semen cloud in the NFL Forum every time people see Belichick do the same thing in terms of being creative and finding loopholes

I will say kicking the leg out is extremely stupid though. I can almost guarantee this guy is going to get a serious injury one of these days by doing it