Article: DeJounte Murray's New Role

[cd021]

https://www.spurstalk.com/dejounte-murray-bench-role-san-antonio-spurs/

Gist: The Spurs needed to make changes to the starting lineup, Murray is now adjusting to his new role off the bench.

[Prose]

when asked about it yesterday after the game he said "it is what it is", dosent seem to happy about it but hopefully he dosent get to down or think it is permanent. I think walker seems to be more of a 6th man with his play style rather than murry

[Dverde]

Here’s 64M now go to the bench.

[Chinook]

Murray's not going to be happy. No need to even wonder about it. The questions to ask are a) Will him not being happy affect the team? and b) Can Murray channel is unhappiness into getting better or will he let it sink him/force his way out of the SA?

I do think the last thing the SL needed was bad shooting and terrible ball-handling, so swapping him out for White was a good step. I also think they're continuing to hurt for a legit starting PF who can defend at an NBA level and hit threes at a high rate. Lyles is the best option on the roster, but I worry that he just doesn't have enough talent. Gay had the talent, but this year, his play has fallen off to the point where I don't know that he can be a net-positive against NBA starters either. Curse Marcus Morris for like the billionth time. Starting Walker for Forbes might well be an improvement, but it feels more like a finishing move after the other spots are handled. Something like White/an actualized Walker/DeRozan/Morris/Aldridge would have very good two-way potential. We'll see how close they can get to that by the end of the year.

Murray has been taking more threes lately. He's been aggressive in letting them fly if he has space beyond the arc. That's good and necessary for him to space the floor even a little bit. But his shooting is pretty off, and it's to a point that it might taken another year or two of dedicated work to fix it. So many people don't want to admit how raw Murray is compared to his peers. They keep wanting to make excuses for him not being able to dribble. I get that he missed a year of development and is still working his way back from injury. I don't want to say the door is closed on him ever getting better. But it's not good enough now, and it's not reasonable to assume the Spurs should bank on him being better than he is now.

In that regard, it might be fair to say that there's not all that much "wrong" with Murray right now. He may just being showing that he's not very good and that going against bench players or coming in for energy stints may be the best way to use him. I sure hope no one's suggesting to him that the demotion is temporary. It shouldn't be a matter or time before he starts. He should only do so if/when he plays well enough to be a viable starter.

[tholdren]

Murray's not going to be happy. No need to even wonder about it. The questions to ask are a) Will him not being happy affect the team? and b) Can Murray channel is unhappiness into getting better or will he let it sink him/force his way out of the SA?

I do think the last thing the SL needed was bad shooting and terrible ball-handling, so swapping him out for White was a good step. I also think they're continuing to hurt for a legit starting PF who can defend at an NBA level and hit threes at a high rate. Lyles is the best option on the roster, but I worry that he just doesn't have enough talent. Gay had the talent, but this year, his play has fallen off to the point where I don't know that he can be a net-positive against NBA starters either. Curse Marcus Morris for like the billionth time. Starting Walker for Forbes might well be an improvement, but it feels more like a finishing move after the other spots are handled. Something like White/an actualized Walker/DeRozan/Morris/Aldridge would have very good two-way potential. We'll see how close they can get to that by the end of the year.

Murray has been taking more threes lately. He's been aggressive in letting them fly if he has space beyond the arc. That's good and necessary for him to space the floor even a little bit. But his shooting is pretty off, and it's to a point that it might taken another year or two of dedicated work to fix it. So many people don't want to admit how raw Murray is compared to his peers. They keep wanting to make excuses for him not being able to dribble. I get that he missed a year of development and is still working his way back from injury. I don't want to say the door is closed on him ever getting better. But it's not good enough now, and it's not reasonable to assume the Spurs should bank on him being better than he is now.

In that regard, it might be fair to say that there's not all that much "wrong" with Murray right now. He may just being showing that he's not very good and that going against bench players or coming in for energy stints may be the best way to use him. I sure hope no one's suggesting to him that the demotion is temporary. It shouldn't be a matter or time before he starts. He should only do so if/when he plays well enough to be a viable starter.
But what about all those ig posts of him dribbling with motivational quotes in the description? You mean that didn't make him good?

[Chomag]

I would be mad getting benched behind Forbes too.

[azarel]

hmm i didn't see much of his 3's but his 2 pt shots looked pretty good? i think its just confidence (or poise?), which is something i hope he gains and matures as a player as fast as possible.

[GAustex]

Among other things the Spurs need both PGs to be more influential.
White back to last year (or slightly more) form on D and O.
Murray better decision making and ball protection and he needs to figure out how to finish at the rim and he needs to take and make midrange shots when he scraps his man off on a pick. Three point shots should be taken only when open.
If the Spurs get that they have a chance to be pretenders. Without that they are the dregs.

[Down Under]

Murray's not going to be happy. No need to even wonder about it. The questions to ask are a) Will him not being happy affect the team? and b) Can Murray channel is unhappiness into getting better or will he let it sink him/force his way out of the SA?

I do think the last thing the SL needed was bad shooting and terrible ball-handling, so swapping him out for White was a good step. I also think they're continuing to hurt for a legit starting PF who can defend at an NBA level and hit threes at a high rate. Lyles is the best option on the roster, but I worry that he just doesn't have enough talent. Gay had the talent, but this year, his play has fallen off to the point where I don't know that he can be a net-positive against NBA starters either. Curse Marcus Morris for like the billionth time. Starting Walker for Forbes might well be an improvement, but it feels more like a finishing move after the other spots are handled. Something like White/an actualized Walker/DeRozan/Morris/Aldridge would have very good two-way potential. We'll see how close they can get to that by the end of the year.

Murray has been taking more threes lately. He's been aggressive in letting them fly if he has space beyond the arc. That's good and necessary for him to space the floor even a little bit. But his shooting is pretty off, and it's to a point that it might taken another year or two of dedicated work to fix it. So many people don't want to admit how raw Murray is compared to his peers. They keep wanting to make excuses for him not being able to dribble. I get that he missed a year of development and is still working his way back from injury. I don't want to say the door is closed on him ever getting better. But it's not good enough now, and it's not reasonable to assume the Spurs should bank on him being better than he is now.

In that regard, it might be fair to say that there's not all that much "wrong" with Murray right now. He may just being showing that he's not very good and that going against bench players or coming in for energy stints may be the best way to use him. I sure hope no one's suggesting to him that the demotion is temporary. It shouldn't be a matter or time before he starts. He should only do so if/when he plays well enough to be a viable starter.
I think his handles have gotten tighter & his shot (particularly when he dribbles behind a screen) have gotten better, despite him not being at the required level yet. He was just so raw coming into the NBA, there was so much to work on - not everyone improves at the rate of someone like Siakam.

[John B]

https://www.spurstalk.com/dejounte-murray-bench-role-san-antonio-spurs/

Gist: The Spurs needed to make changes to the starting lineup, Murray is now adjusting to his new role off the bench.
I don’t think anything is permanent with this current roster. Pop is continuing to work what works now, while the young players mature for their future role. Spurs wouldn’t have invested 64 million if they didn’t believe in him, so it’s up to Murray to treat this as motivation to improve on what’s needed as starting PG and leader of the team.

[SAGirl]

Good article. :tu

[illusioNtEk]

I'm not sure why we even gave him a 64 million dollar contract... he didnt earn in.... Patty and Danny green had to earn that.

[cd021]

I don’t think anything is permanent with this current roster. Pop is continuing to work what works now, while the young players mature for their future role. Spurs wouldn’t have invested 64 million if they didn’t believe in him, so it’s up to Murray to treat this as motivation to improve on what’s needed as starting PG and leader of the team.

I think it's permanent for this season, at least, unless the wheels fall off or the Spurs get ballsy and trade DeRozan while still trying to make the playoffs.

It's kind of unfair to Murray, his benching is partly because DeRozan can't shoot 3s (last few games notwithstanding).

it's hard to construct a lineup where Murray, DeRozan and Aldridge are all on the floor together and have that lineup be positive given teams don't see any of them as an outside threat.

[cd021]

I'm not sure why we even gave him a 64 million dollar contract... he didnt earn in.... Patty and Danny green had to earn that.

Mills and Green were never extended and were established players when they got paid.

Rookie extensions has more to do with potential and projection than current or past production. Murray is viewed as a $16 million-dollar player going forward even though he isn't one now.

[XDT76]

Extension could also screw the cap space for free agent market.

[XDT76]

I think it's permanent for this season, at least, unless the wheels fall off or the Spurs get ballsy and trade DeRozan while still trying to make the playoffs.

It's kind of unfair to Murray, his benching is partly because DeRozan can't shoot 3s (last few games notwithstanding).

it's hard to construct a lineup where Murray, DeRozan and Aldridge are all on the floor together and have that lineup be positive given teams don't see any of them as an outside threat.

Not only of the 3s, with DDR and LMA (and Gay) in the lineup Murray has less time on the ball.

[acoelho1]

Even with Murray’s flaws, last game was a perfect illustration of why he needs to be on the court. He’s simply a disruptive force with his speed and defense. Also, let’s not pretend that White is setting the world on fire as a starter. The Spurs didn’t give him all that money because they think he will be simply a role player off the bench. I fully expect him to get his spot back given his competitive nature.

[spurspl]

trade him

[Sugus]

Extension could also screw the cap space for free agent market.

I'm much, much more worried about the FO extending either of LMA or DD than DJ's deal. 16M per year shouldn't lock us out of any one FA if the FO makes the necessary moves to clear space (and doesn't fuck it up with large contracts to these two).

[KobesAchilles]

I don’t mind Murray being benched but Pop needs to build the bench unit around his strengths and have them play uptempo all the time. Pair him with Lonnie, Mills, Jakob and Lyles all the time and watch them go to work. The bench needs just as much chemistry as the starters which I think is what has been an understated problem.

[sasaint]

I don’t mind Murray being benched but Pop needs to build the bench unit around his strengths and have them play uptempo all the time. Pair him with Lonnie, Mills, Jakob and Lyles all the time and watch them go to work. The bench needs just as much chemistry as the starters which I think is what has been an understated problem.

Pop had the opportunity to start this season with the same SL that ended last season and use his minutes restriction as justification for bringing Dijon off the bench. In that scenario, Dijon would not have had to deal with the possibility of getting benched, and a lot of other disruption would have been avoided.

That said, I like the lineup you list, and if only Dijon could get his ball handling under control, that might become a good starting unit.

[KobesAchilles]

Pop had the opportunity to start this season with the same SL that ended last season and use his minutes restriction as justification for bringing Dijon off the bench. In that scenario, Dijon would not have had to deal with the possibility of getting benched, and a lot of other disruption would have been avoided.

That said, I like the lineup you list, and if only Dijon could get his ball handling under control, that might become a good starting unit.
i agree that Pop screwed the pooch on that one (I’ve been saying that since the start of the season). But I do wonder if the old man was fooled. He saw DeRozan practicing his 3 ball in the offseason and DJ get his jumper fixed and balling. I bet he was thinking hey these two can work together. But then reality kicked in :lol

[Sugus]

i agree that Pop screwed the pooch on that one (I’ve been saying that since the start of the season). But I do wonder if the old man was fooled. He saw DeRozan practicing his 3 ball in the offseason and DJ get his jumper fixed and balling. I bet he was thinking hey these two can work together. But then reality kicked in :lol

I think the most important factor was believing DJ would be right where he left off pre-injury, both offensively and defensively. The real problem anyways started with the delusion that LMA and DD could coexist as stars on any modern team in the NBA - the DJ/White conundrum is just added noise on top of that single, awful miscalculation. If a trade gets through that frees the Spurs of either DD or LMA (preferrably DD), I could see White and DJ coexist in the SL with minutes staggered to lead the bench as PG for either. No more Forbes either which should be a matter of rejoice... The question is whether the FO will address the elephant in the room.

[sasaint]

I think the most important factor was believing DJ would be right where he left off pre-injury, both offensively and defensively. The real problem anyways started with the delusion that LMA and DD could coexist as stars on any modern team in the NBA - the DJ/White conundrum is just added noise on top of that single, awful miscalculation. If a trade gets through that frees the Spurs of either DD or LMA (preferrably DD), I could see White and DJ coexist in the SL with minutes staggered to lead the bench as PG for either. No more Forbes either which should be a matter of rejoice... The question is whether the FO will address the elephant in the room.

All are indications (among many others) that Pop's judgment is shot - so shot that I don't want him to be in charge of making major personnel moves like trading LMA or Dumbmar. But the timing of all of this malaise is nightmarish. There is no realistic way to effectively replace PATFO in time to make these important personnel decisions, and the decisions really can't wait until this season is over. We are just hosed...

[spurs10]

Thanks for the great article! Anyone who likes Hendrix as much as you was bound to be a bright one! I think DM has a great attitude and realizes he has a long way to go. He certainly helped when White was having a horrible night.

My take was DM probably needed to finish some of those drives to the rim instead of kicking it out, but the game winner looked great and his defense added a lot to our 'barely' win.

[TimmyBuckets]

I would be mad getting benched behind Forbes too.

[Sugus]

All are indications (among many others) that Pop's judgment is shot - so shot that I don't want him to be in charge of making major personnel moves like trading LMA or Dumbmar. But the timing of all of this malaise is nightmarish. There is no realistic way to effectively replace PATFO in time to make these important personnel decisions, and the decisions really can't wait until this season is over. We are just hosed...

I have the slightest hint of hope for the new GM to take matters into his own hands and make some kind of move. The beauty of this is that any single move, whether it's trading DD, or LMA, or Rudy or whoever, automatically signals that the team is no longer in immediate contention, opening up the door to make the next trades more easily. In an ideal universe, Pop would have the realization that he'll not be around for long and thus shouldn't have the final say on decisions that will affect the Spurs years down the line... Though I admit my optimism is unfounded. This trade deadline might be Wright's first and huge test as a manager, hope Pop or RC aren't too caught up in the past to override him.

[sasaint]

I have the slightest hint of hope for the new GM to take matters into his own hands and make some kind of move. The beauty of this is that any single move, whether it's trading DD, or LMA, or Rudy or whoever, automatically signals that the team is no longer in immediate contention, opening up the door to make the next trades more easily. In an ideal universe, Pop would have the realization that he'll not be around for long and thus shouldn't have the final say on decisions that will affect the Spurs years down the line... Though I admit my optimism is unfounded. This trade deadline might be Wright's first and huge test as a manager, hope Pop or RC aren't too caught up in the past to override him.

From your lips to God's ears! But I am less optimistic. Pop apparently regards the Spurs as his own private retirement recreation.

[Spurs Brazil]

https://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN/status/1204160089608859648

[cd021]

Pop had the opportunity to start this season with the same SL that ended last season and use his minutes restriction as justification for bringing Dijon off the bench. In that scenario, Dijon would not have had to deal with the possibility of getting benched, and a lot of other disruption would have been avoided.

That said, I like the lineup you list, and if only Dijon could get his ball handling under control, that might become a good starting unit.

-Good point, tbh. In retrospect that probably would've been better. It's probably hard for Murray not to think of it as a demotion now, after starting the first month- plus.

-I attribute his high turnover rate to him being a young PG. Its sort of like how young bigs usually foul like crazy, eventually they figure it out and adjust.

[CGD]

On the bright side, I like the idea of seeing the Murray-Lonnie back court even if off the bench. Not unreasonable to think that in the Spurs best case scenario, 2 years from now that end ups being the starting backcourt.

[RC_Drunkford]

I have the slightest hint of hope for the new GM to take matters into his own hands and make some kind of move. The beauty of this is that any single move, whether it's trading DD, or LMA, or Rudy or whoever, automatically signals that the team is no longer in immediate contention, opening up the door to make the next trades more easily. In an ideal universe, Pop would have the realization that he'll not be around for long and thus shouldn't have the final say on decisions that will affect the Spurs years down the line... Though I admit my optimism is unfounded. This trade deadline might be Wright's first and huge test as a manager, hope Pop or RC aren't too caught up in the past to override him.

wrong. If they trade Mills and Carroll for Gallinari for example it means they are all in on a playoff push

[JeffDuncan]

wrong. If they trade Mills and Carroll for Gallinari for example it means they are all in on a playoff push

If they do what? Do you actually know who any of those players are?

Explain that trade. I am genuinely curious. How is that accomplished?

[RC_Drunkford]

If they do what? Do you actually know who any of those players are?

Explain that trade. I am genuinely curious. How is that accomplished?

Marcus Morris went to the Knicks, so the Spurs never got the starting PF they desperately need. Gallinari is available, so is Marvin Williams. Rumor has it that various teams are also interested in Robert Covington. The Spurs can easily package players to trade for either of those. While I like Mills his contract is perfect to match that salary range. For example Mills for Marvin Williams works straight up. You could then start Marvin Williams at PF and move Forbes to the bench. That would do wonders for the defense.

[Sugus]

wrong. If they trade Mills and Carroll for Gallinari for example it means they are all in on a playoff push

Yeah, I meant to say trading them for assets/picks and not other competitive vets, should've specified that.

[JeffDuncan]

Marcus Morris went to the Knicks, so the Spurs never got the starting PF they desperately need. Gallinari is available, so is Marvin Williams. Rumor has it that various teams are also interested in Robert Covington. The Spurs can easily package players to trade for either of those. While I like Mills his contract is perfect to match that salary range. For example Mills for Marvin Williams works straight up. You could then start Marvin Williams at PF and move Forbes to the bench. That would do wonders for the defense.

But the thing is, why on earth would they trade Gallinari for Mills + Carroll? Really, why?

[EasyMoney]

Stop entertaining the idea that Patty mills could be traded.

It is never happening.