If DeRozan doesn't get an extension...

[DPG21920]

If SA knows they aren’t going to extend DeRozan and therefore this is likely the last year with him as a Spur, what are your thoughts on the best course of action?

If you aren’t willing to invest in DeRozan as your future (no extension) and also aren’t willing to sacrifice the long term to try and win this year (trading the youth + picks for an all star type to pair with LMA and Derozan to make a run this season), what makes the most sense in terms of handling the situation?

What would you like to see SA do based on what we’ve seen both this season and Derozan’s entire tenure as a Spur?

[Sugus]

Trade him Dec 15th 12:01. For picks, young players, bad salary attached to another teams' picks, anything really. Next best case scenario is another team offers him a max so he walks, but you get nothing then (still can take on bad salary for picks with that capspace though). Really, any scenario where DD is not a part of the Spurs long-term plans is okay with me. The best asset that the Spurs will get anyways is being rid of the shackles that are the minutes and touches he gets due to his status as the team's "star" at the expense of our many young guards.

[MultiTroll]

Trade for draft pick(s) or young player with good potential.

[DPG21920]

Is there any reason to not try and get assets for him IF you know he’s not in your future plans vs just letting him walk? Assuming he doesn’t have negative value?

[Sugus]

Is there any reason to not try and get assets for him IF you know he’s not in your future plans vs just letting him walk? Assuming he doesn’t have negative value?

Yes, the Spurs' idealistic belief that he will in fact not walk once a max is offered to him and will give us a "market discount" in a new deal; just like they were trying to convince Kawhi to stay when it was painfully obvious he was out the door already.

[DPG21920]

Yes, the Spurs' idealistic belief that he will in fact not walk once a max is offered to him and will give us a "market discount" in a new deal; just like they were trying to convince Kawhi to stay when it was painfully obvious he was out the door already.

That’s interesting. So you seem to think SA believes in Derozan as the future and fit but the disagreement is simply over the price tag?

That makes sense. It’s definitely something to consider.

[itzsoweezee]

He's suited to play the Patty Mills role. I'm pretty sure he would not be ok with that.

So the best option is to trade him. The Spurs still need a 3 and D guy and no one on the roster fits the bill. Either draft one or trade for one another team is not optimizing.

[swrowe78]

Who would trade for him though? He's an out of date guard who doesn't shoot 3's. I mean, I think someone would be interested if he played the 6th man role. But I don't think he would want that.

[Genovaswitness]

Who would trade for him though? He's an out of date guard who doesn't shoot 3's. I mean, I think someone would be interested if he played the 6th man role. But I don't think he would want that.

at this point the prospect of not sinking 30 mil+/yr into this buffoon is appealing on its own. getting a couple of draft picks or a midlevel player is a nice bonus.

[baseline bum]

Kind of depends what happens this month IMO. With the Spurs a game and a half out of a playoff seed it probably isn't time to blow it up yet if the team can show some improvement the rest of the month. But I do think December should be this team's last chance. If they still suck in January then blow it all up and beg RC to be in charge of the draft.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I am not sure what to make of his sudden 3 point shooting. 5 for 10 over the last 4 games. If he can shoot a decent percentage on 2.5 plus attempts per contest he does become more valuable.

[K...]

One vote for reality: he will play out his contact. Pafto have no appetite to take back other teams trash and still like derzn as a player.

Fantasy is " trade him for young players" that's so dumb as to be disqualifying. Cleanest way to a rebuild is through the draft whether it's a true tank or a slow rebuild.

[EasyMoney]

Play out contract. Let him walk. The closer we reach the trade deadline, the less value he will have because his contract is up. I doubt they will get a competent return for demar that doesn't involve getting back a bad contract.

[superbigtime]

FO should certainly be shopping him.

[ginobilized]

I have no idea what the best course of action would be with DDR.
Each scenario is equally arguable. The fact that he is suddenly shooting 3’s might indicate that he’s working to secure that extension or upping his trade value.

I find it difficult to imagine that he would bring back something that we need in a trade. Tough call.

[DPG21920]

Kind of depends what happens this month IMO. With the Spurs a game and a half out of a playoff seed it probably isn't time to blow it up yet if the team can show some improvement the rest of the month. But I do think December should be this team's last chance. If they still suck in January then blow it all up and beg RC to be in charge of the draft.

So you’re of the opinion, that making the playoffs this year, even if you know that you don’t want him another year (Hence the no extension) is worth it vs getting a first round pick for him?

I think this is the real crux of the question. When does just eeking into the playoffs not outweigh doing what is optimal for the future?

Even if you knew for sure you could make the playoffs, is that reason enough to not trade Derozan (assuming of course you can get something positive for him) knowing he’s gone next year and you have no desire to keep him?

[DPG21920]

I have no idea what the best course of action would be with DDR.
Each scenario is equally arguable. The fact that he is suddenly shooting 3’s might indicate that he’s working to secure that extension or upping his trade value.

I find it difficult to imagine that he would bring back something that we need in a trade. Tough call.

So that was part of the assumption: that 1) we know Sa isn’t extending him and 2) he has positive value.

We know SA would let him walk if they couldn’t trade him for something positive. But the real question, to me at least, is let’s assume SA can make the playoffs but we know they aren’t a legit threat for anything. Is that worth not getting a first round pick for Derozan now?

If you aren’t really going to go for more with Derozan (add to LMA and Derozan) when is it the best to move him (or not at all because you want to fight for the 7th or 8th seed)?

[DPG21920]

Play out contract. Let him walk. The closer we reach the trade deadline, the less value he will have because his contract is up. I doubt they will get a competent return for demar that doesn't involve getting back a bad contract.

What does that say if you truly believe NO ONE values Derozan positively? You really think Sa traded for a player that no other team values at all?

[DPG21920]

One vote for reality: he will play out his contact. Pafto have no appetite to take back other teams trash and still like derzn as a player.

Fantasy is " trade him for young players" that's so dumb as to be disqualifying. Cleanest way to a rebuild is through the draft whether it's a true tank or a slow rebuild.

I think everyone knows you aren’t getting an all star caliber young player for Derozan, but expiring deals + a pick? Even if Sa gets a player with a fully guaranteed deal next season where Derozan would be cleared off the books, would that matter? Would they be players in FA next year anyways?

[Dex]

I think DeRozan fits in other systems, and other teams will value him as such.

The problem with his fit in San Antonio boils down to two factors: LaMarcus Aldridge and poor defensive talent.

First, LaMarcus and DeRozan both play antiquated, mid-range ball...a team can survive one such player who thrives that way, but when your two highest usage players do, it's hard to survive in this three-happy version of the NBA.

Secondly, the team just has too many sub-par defenders to hide DeRozan's own sub-par defense. It's why we are sitting at the bottom of the barrel in basically every defensive category right now.

Simply put, the makeup of the team wasn't really built for DeMar when he came in, and we've seen the results. That said, I still don't think he is worth keeping and trying to build the team around him.

The biggest problem I see with trading him is his player option, so you have to find a suitor that is either looking for a rental, an expiring contract, or believes he will stick around. That, it itself, is going to hurt his already tainted trade value.

[TDomination]

I am not sure what to make of his sudden 3 point shooting. 5 for 10 over the last 4 games. If he can shoot a decent percentage on 2.5 plus attempts per contest he does become more valuable.

wow i didn't realize he had shot that many 3's in this recent span. i hope he keeps it up.

[phxspurfan]

Max him now, need my jersey to get its bang for the buck

[sasaint]

I think DeRozan fits in other systems, and other teams will value him as such.

The problem with his fit in San Antonio boils down to two factors: LaMarcus Aldridge and poor defensive talent.

First, LaMarcus and DeRozan both play antiquated, mid-range ball...a team can survive one such player who thrives that way, but when your two highest usage players do, it's hard to survive in this three-happy version of the NBA.

Secondly, the team just has too many sub-par defenders to hide DeRozan's own sub-par defense. It's why we are sitting at the bottom of the barrel in basically every defensive category right now.

Simply put, the makeup of the team wasn't really built for DeMar when he came in, and we've seen the results. That said, I still don't think he is worth keeping and trying to build the team around him.

The biggest problem I see with trading him is his player option, so you have to find a suitor that is either looking for a rental, an expiring contract, or believes he will stick around. That, it itself, is going to hurt his already tainted trade value.

Optimal return for a poor/mediocre player is obtained when he is on an expiring contract. Optimal value for a good/excellent player is obtained when he is on a long-term contract. Dumbmar, unfortunately is neither fish nor foul. He is a good player on an expiring contract. That made last season the optimal time for the Spurs to trade him. Unfortunately, his status this season makes things very tricky for the Spurs. They must find a team that values Dumbmar and is convinced it can re-sign him. They must explore every option along these lines. (I really don't know how many options like that are out there. And I really don't see any contender valuing Dumbmar strictly as a rental.) If they fail to find a suitable trade partner, then taking back a bad contract and a low pick may not be as good a return as letting him walk and rolling the dice in free agency next season.

[baseline bum]

So you’re of the opinion, that making the playoffs this year, even if you know that you don’t want him another year (Hence the no extension) is worth it vs getting a first round pick for him?

I think this is the real crux of the question. When does just eeking into the playoffs not outweigh doing what is optimal for the future?

Even if you knew for sure you could make the playoffs, is that reason enough to not trade Derozan (assuming of course you can get something positive for him) knowing he’s gone next year and you have no desire to keep him?

I have cooled off on the draft pick route since RC isn't the GM any more. RC making draft picks was the entire reason I had wanted to tank, but that competitive advantage is gone if it's Wright making the picks. I think a good first round pick is a pipe dream in exchange for DeRozan on an expiring contract, and a pick in the 20s isn't all that valuable and could probably be had cheaper. If the team starts playing decent just keep going and see what kind of offers DeRozan gets. If the team keeps sucking then dump him for whatever assets you can use to rebuild.

[phxspurfan]

I have cooled off on the draft pick route since RC isn't the GM any more. RC making draft picks was the entire reason I had wanted to tank, but that competitive advantage is gone if it's Wright making the picks. I think a good first round pick is a pipe dream in exchange for DeRozan on an expiring contract, and a pick in the 20s isn't all that valuable and could probably be had cheaper. If the team starts playing decent just keep going and see what kind of offers DeRozan gets. If the team keeps sucking then dump him for whatever assets you can use to rebuild.

Are you an actual Baseline Bum?

[TD 21]

I've been over this ad nauseam, but to summarize . . .

- Under no circumstances should he be given an extension. Not if it's for a relative discount in money and/or term, not if he keeps up his low volume 3-point shooting and not if the team remains "in the hunt" for a playoff spot in the turtle derby that is one of the final 2 spots in the West.

- He should absolutely be traded. The return is bound to be underwhelming, but it doesn't matter, because something is better than nothing (him walking) and cap space is largely irrelevant here: No significant free agent will sign and they won't use it as a dumping ground to get picks by taking on dead money.

- Since the Magic have turned their season around momentarily and Fournier is having a career season, the best bet is probably either taking on Pistons expiring's + a lottery protected 1st or re-routing that and potentially other spare parts for Paul or Gallinari.

I still think trying in vain to "win" holds more appeal to the Spurs than a mid 1st (even though it could be used as a vehicle, with their own 1st and possibly a young player, to get to the mid lottery).

[gambit1990]

does tyson chandler have any game left?

demar for eric gordon, pj tucker, and tyson chandler doesn't seem too unrealistic.

gordon and tucker help space the floor. no demar means the ball can be in murray / white / lonnie's hands more.

[DPG21920]

To me, the people that say “wait and see” imply that something could change which is interesting. Without a trade to bolster this team with Derozan and LMA you are basically saying there IS a line to you that gets crossed where keeping Derozan makes sense.

So you’re saying that if you knew Sa could make the playoffs and lose in the 2nd round you’d rather that then the extra late first?

That’s fair but wanting to see the thought process on that.

[gambit1990]

would do this deal in a heartbeat, spurs would instantly be a top four team in the west:
https://i.imgur.com/DWhLrDl.png

cp3 / murray or white / diallo / la / noel

schroder and lonnie off the bench would be a fun scoring duo.

[Prose]

him shooting 3s will help his trade value. Lets just take a moment to bask in the joy that he is him finally shooting and making 3s! :D

[RC_Drunkford]

if you don't extend him you have to trade him. Cap space in the offseason doesn't matter, because the free agents available will be garbage. If the Spurs can make the playoffs with DeRozan, they can make them without him. There is no evidence that the team is worse when he's off the floor. Last years team couldn't compete without one of the 9 rotation players...except for DeRozan. When he was injured they still won. Him shooting 3s gives him some value, but from what I heard the Spurs want to extend him for 20 million per year and he won't take that. He's definitely not worth more than that

[duncan2k5]

Trade him Dec 15th 12:01. For picks, young players, bad salary attached to another teams' picks, anything really. Next best case scenario is another team offers him a max so he walks, but you get nothing then (still can take on bad salary for picks with that capspace though). Really, any scenario where DD is not a part of the Spurs long-term plans is okay with me. The best asset that the Spurs will get anyways is being rid of the shackles that are the minutes and touches he gets due to his status as the team's "star" at the expense of our many young guards.

You, good sir, are a wise, wise man

[duncan2k5]

at this point the prospect of not sinking 30 mil+/yr into this buffoon is appealing on its own. getting a couple of draft picks or a midlevel player is a nice bonus.

Tbh

[duncan2k5]

I am not sure what to make of his sudden 3 point shooting. 5 for 10 over the last 4 games. If he can shoot a decent percentage on 2.5 plus attempts per contest he does become more valuable.

U mean like he used to do in Toronto when we used to laugh at him?

[duncan2k5]

I have no idea what the best course of action would be with DDR.
Each scenario is equally arguable. The fact that he is suddenly shooting 3’s might indicate that he’s working to secure that extension or upping his trade value.

I find it difficult to imagine that he would bring back something that we need in a trade. Tough call.

He was shooting threes in Toronto and we still thought he was trash...and he is worse now than he was then... Trade him

[duncan2k5]

To get good value for him, trade him somewhere he is willing to resign... But at this point, getting rid of DDR for anything is addition by subtraction

[DPG21920]

if you don't extend him you have to trade him. Cap space in the offseason doesn't matter, because the free agents available will be garbage. If the Spurs can make the playoffs with DeRozan, they can make them without him. There is no evidence that the team is worse when he's off the floor. Last years team couldn't compete without one of the 9 rotation players...except for DeRozan. When he was injured they still won. Him shooting 3s gives him some value, but from what I heard the Spurs want to extend him for 20 million per year and he won't take that. He's definitely not worth more than that

To me personally, whether they can make the playoffs with or without him is largely irrelevant to the general point. The bigger point is we know for 100% certainty that this team is not anywhere close to a contender.

So there is no decision on whether blowing up a team that is close to getting over the hump or not. At best, it’s a fringe playoff team and even then, that’s really not the point either.

If you don’t believe in DeRozan enough to where you are worried about winning now more than the future and aren’t willing to make trades to bolster the teams playoff chances right now, that also means you obviously don’t believe in building around him for the next 3-5 years with an extension.

So whether or not you make the playoffs should not change that and it doesn’t. The question then becomes is making the playoffs worth missing out an additional draft pick (in theory assuming you can get that in a trade)?

Because whether or not Sa makes the playoffs they are not seemingly extended DeRozan which means he likely walks next season for nothing and you have no compensation for losing a solid player when you need as much ammo as possible for the continuing rebuild. I can’t think of any top tier franchise that just sub-optimally loses assets for no good reason when they could get something positive for them.

If the plan was to continue the “win-building” they have been doing and they were a sure fire playoff team (even if not a contender) then extending DeRozan makes sense but the fact they dont seem to be on that trajectory no matter what and aren’t willing to trade picks/youth to get more talent now lends me to believe he should be moved by the deadline.

Playoffs or not.

[Sugus]

That’s interesting. So you seem to think SA believes in Derozan as the future and fit but the disagreement is simply over the price tag?

That makes sense. It’s definitely something to consider.

Sadly, I think the fact that the FO thought he would be a good fit in the first place, added to the fact that the team is struggling right now but made the PO last season and is hanging by due to DeMar's effort, they could delude themselves into thinking of DeMar as a long-term piece. Sad to think of the Spurs FO being this clueless, but it is what it is at this point. We'll know soon enough what they think - if they're trading him, they'll want it done as soon as possible after the 15th anyways.

[tholdren]

There is no one on the roster that would be as good as derozan so trading for potential will probably work out as good as Murray or Lonnie and both of those guys are nothing more than YMCA stars. Get rid of lamarsha first.

[baseline bum]

Are you an actual Baseline Bum?

Nah just a bum tbh

[Down Under]

If he opts out, whats the maximum you can offer for a short term contract (2 years)? 60million? The young guys love him, so can't see him getting traded, but he would have to take a bench role at some point. LMA should be the focus.

[sasaint]

There is no one on the roster that would be as good as derozan so trading for potential will probably work out as good as Murray or Lonnie and both of those guys are nothing more than YMCA stars. Get rid of lamarsha first.

I think of them as a double-header. Teams don't usually trade big for big and small for small. So you trade LMA for a decent 3 and D SF and simultaneously move Dumbmar for a decent big to fill LMA's spot.

[JeffDuncan]

If he opts out, whats the maximum you can offer for a short term contract (2 years)? 60million? ...

What?!? Bite your typing fingers off! This very minute!


The young guys love him, ...

They do not. No player likes a guy who has hissy fits that hurt the team. Also, Pop gives no part of a rat's anatomy what any young guy likes.


... LMA should be the focus.

Not correct. In terms of salary vs performance, LMA is a bargain. (Don't believe everything you read on Spurstalk.) LMA is the 40th highest paid player in the NBA. His stats, including PER, run consistently 34th in the NBA. LMA is outperforming his salary.

DDR underperforms. He is 25th in salary, but lower in all stats with the sole exception of ppg. His PER is 43rd, for example.

The Spurs should get rid of the player who underperforms re his salary, not the one who outperforms.

[slick'81]

Trade his tckn ass! for the love of god we have enough sg's

[vander]

Got to trade him for pick(s) and a bad contract. Right now while his 3 point shooting is hot.

[ginobilized]

It all depends on the market. If an offer comes across the table that makes the team better, PATFO would consider it. I am mystified at what their plan is right now. This season has been very strange.
I don't believe they know for sure which way to go. Pop rarely trades during the season and he almost never trades with Western Conference teams. I bet they end up keeping him. If not, it will be because another team could use a scorer for the playoffs and could mask his defense.
That is slim pickin's.

[offset formation]

Trade him Dec 15th 12:01. For picks, young players, bad salary attached to another teams' picks, anything really. Next best case scenario is another team offers him a max so he walks, but you get nothing then (still can take on bad salary for picks with that capspace though). Really, any scenario where DD is not a part of the Spurs long-term plans is okay with me. The best asset that the Spurs will get anyways is being rid of the shackles that are the minutes and touches he gets due to his status as the team's "star" at the expense of our many young guards.

/thread.

[offset formation]

does tyson chandler have any game left?

demar for eric gordon, pj tucker, and tyson chandler doesn't seem too unrealistic.

gordon and tucker help space the floor. no demar means the ball can be in murray / white / lonnie's hands more.

Doubt D'Antoni would want to swap 3pt shooters for a midrange player on his team that plays even worse D than Eric Gordon, tbh. Not their style. But who knows, the Rockets are so fucking stupid.

[R. DeMurre]

I just don't see any reason to keep him. He can't be a centerpiece on a true contender, he keeps the young players from getting minutes, he makes every defensive scheme suspect, his offensive style keeps the lane cluttered for his teammates... A decade's worth of mediocre-to-poor advanced stats are not performing some sort of sleight of hand magic trick. Freeing up cap space alone for a future potential player is enough of a reason to trade him. Getting anything in return with future potential-- a defender, a shooter-- would just be icing on the cake.

[spurraider21]

does tyson chandler have any game left?

demar for eric gordon, pj tucker, and tyson chandler doesn't seem too unrealistic.

gordon and tucker help space the floor. no demar means the ball can be in murray / white / lonnie's hands more.
:lmao

[Sugus]

Doubt D'Antoni would want to swap 3pt shooters for a midrange player on his team that plays even worse D than Eric Gordon, tbh. Not their style. But who knows, the Rockets are so fucking stupid.

To be honest, the Rockets actually could really use a good midrange shooter to offset their 3-dependent offense; it was obvious after they went 27-0 that just relying on 3pt shooting wasn't enough to win a championship, and yet they shipped away CP3, who besides that god-awful contract was their only legit midrange threat. Now, they're absolutely asset-strapped so any trade wouldn't make sense for the Spurs, but it would for the Rockets if MDA wasn't such a fucking idiot to get Westbrick on the team.

[NickiRasgo]

Maybe the Spurs could trade him and LMA to OKC then ask pick/s from OKC by absorbing CP3's contract.

[duncan2k5]

I would trade him for anyone except deion waiters

[KobesAchilles]

I had so many bad takes defending DeRozan last year that I would trade him for that reason alone :lol

[DPG21920]

Glad I made this poll before the Cavs game; didn’t want results skewed.