Sprewell traded to the Twolves [Archive]

kohai

07-22-2003, 08:00 PM

Call me crazy, but the Kandi acquisition won't be any better for them than Marc Jackson was a couple of years ago.

I'll wait to see how they fill out their bench before I judge them, but right now, their starting backcourt players are both in their 30s. This is a short haul team, built to convince KG to stay. Of course those horrible moves by NJ last year seem to have worked, accidentally if nothing else.:wink

CosmicCowboyXXX

07-22-2003, 08:01 PM

damn...who woulda thought Minny would be able to improve that much in the offseason with nothing to work with....

those damn glitzy east/west coast teams have all the luck...:lol

zarko

07-22-2003, 08:02 PM

I'm pretty disappointed in what the spurs have done this off season. Nestorovic was a decent pick up, but if we end up with horry and boykins...i think we should do better. really wanted to get spree, though i understand we cannot give up manu or malik. wonder what the knicks see in van horn?

ChumpDumper

07-22-2003, 08:03 PM

Minnesota had Brandon's retirement to work with.

McHale's rep took care of Kandi.

kohai

07-22-2003, 08:04 PM

Minnesota offered Rasho a LOT more money than they payed Kandi. THAT should tell you something.

DeSPURado

07-22-2003, 08:08 PM

Also Cassell and Spree both have championship experience. I'd say this puts them up there with us in terms of contending. Hell it probably makes them better than everbody but the Lakers on paper. If the Tim and KG matchup is a wash this year, like it is every year, the Spurs had better watch out.

ducks

07-22-2003, 08:10 PM

this team might exployed

looks to me like a bunch of guys who will want shots

be intertsting to see if they can player TOGETHER as a TEAM

DeSPURado

07-22-2003, 08:14 PM

Why is it the typical Spurs fan's reaction to think that every team that improves during the off season, is going to have personality conflicts like Portland. KG is a better passer than Tim, he regularly has more assists than Tim by like 2.

Nikos

07-22-2003, 08:15 PM

This doesn't look too promising for the SPURS :(

Twolves get considerably better, Lakers as well -- not to mention other teams like the Suns, Clippers, GS, shoul dbe improving -- not to mention a healthy Kings team will be tough.

Doesn't get any easier -- would be nice if we got more than Rasho :(

texbound

07-22-2003, 08:17 PM

Why is it the typical Spurs fan's reaction to think that every team that improves during the off season, is going to have personality conflicts like Portland.

I completely agree with you. The wolves have done what every team needs to do, put themselves in the best possible position they can for the upcoming season. They now have scorers at every position and they also have a team that can play some defense. Damn........

Tex

KoriEllis

07-22-2003, 08:22 PM

Minny is doing what they need to do to improve. Kudos to them for that. I don't know if this team will make it out of the second round, but they will at least help KG get over the first round hump.

TheCat5

07-22-2003, 08:24 PM

I still think they'll be out in the first round. Trades like this are always overhyped in the offseason because there's nothing else to talk about. Cassell and Spree are good additions, but are they enough to close the 10 game gap between the Spurs, Lakers, Kings and Mavs? I'm not sold that they are. They're definitely better, but I wouldn't consider it a given at all that they beat one of those four teams in a series.

I would feel SO much better about all of this if Horry would just go ahead and sign his name. :(

goliath

07-22-2003, 08:27 PM

OK, the Spurs didnt want to part w/ Manu, Malik, or Sjax.
Understandable. My understanding is that was a major reason why the deal died.

But what I dont understand is why we couldnt have played Minn and traded say 2 picks and Scola. Then the Hawks get a player, 2 picks and cap room, instead of just cap room.

Why is it every year, every other team seems to make moves like this while we are forced to rely on our great scouting to get players noone else wants (TP, Malik, Manu, SJax) who blossom under us.

This was suppost to be the offseason that solidifies everything. Yet once again its conference rivals, the Lakers and T-Wolves, who get significantly better this offseason.

What a complete bust. From 2 yrs of Kidd and Oneal and Brand. To talk of Kandi, Rasho, Miller AND Odom, Spree, Magette. To using 16 mill for Rasho and Horry:depressed

We better start praying that TP and Sjax dont get complacent and regress.

adonis50

07-22-2003, 08:27 PM

Not sure that Minny will have homecourt advantage against SA,LA,DAL,SAC. 1st round will still be a challenge for the improved puppies.

ChumpDumper

07-22-2003, 08:30 PM

To using 16 mill for Rasho and Horry

You win the "hyperbole of the day" award.

Congrats.

SpursFanInAustin

07-22-2003, 08:40 PM

not to mention other teams like the Suns, Clippers, GS, shoul dbe improving --

Doesn't this apply to us too? We were basically having a rebuilding year last year, while at the same time, winning a championship. All of the core on the Spurs are young and athletic which bodes well for the future. Parker's going to get better, Manu's gonna get better, Jack should get better (if he cuts down on the turnovers), and Tim Duncan still hasnt reached his peak. I believe that the Spurs are banking on Parker and Manu to be the 2 stars to compliment Duncan in his career for the future. That's why they're signing Horry to an inflated 1 year deal. To have capspace to re-sign Manu to a lot of $$$. They see him as more than a role player. He was pretty much limited all year with the ankle injury, and he still was a playmaker on this team. Just imagine him at 100% and a year of experience (championship experience). And he'll be playing in a contract year, so I fully expect him to bring it this coming season.

Solid D

07-22-2003, 08:41 PM

kluby can die happy, now.

SequSpur

07-22-2003, 08:49 PM

This is Fucking Bullshit!

KoriEllis

07-22-2003, 09:03 PM

Does anyone realize that for the Spurs to be involved in this same trade we would have had to give up Malik (if Horry isn't coming) or both Malik and Bowen (if Horry is coming)?

Were you guys willing to do this??

If not, then STFU. What do you guys want the Spurs to do, magically get players and give up nothing? People seem to think we could have given them Speedy and a bag of chips -- that wouldn't have brought Spree here.

SequSpur

07-22-2003, 09:05 PM

I have been up to trading ANYONE but Duncan to get a All star caliber player. ANYONE...

Especially Rose.

ducks

07-22-2003, 09:06 PM

so giving up a spur player was not so bad after all?????????

KoriEllis

07-22-2003, 09:08 PM

Spree is your All-Star???? :rolleyes

And how would the Spurs' front line fare without Rose?

Bounce580

07-22-2003, 09:10 PM

Kori, sort of OT, but where are things with the Piatkowski and Boykins talks?

ChumpDumper

07-22-2003, 09:11 PM

I never thought the Spree trade would make us much better for the money. There's got to be some other guys that teams want to dump -- aren't Swift and White Chocolate on the block for nothing?

Aggie Hoopsfan

07-22-2003, 09:20 PM

I'm going to wait until the roster is set before proclaiming it so, but so far this summer is a fucking bust.

Two of our capped out conference rivals significantly upped the ante while we sit here and spin our wheels with 16 million in cap room.

And for all the homers who say "oh, LA will have chemistry problems", or "oh, Minny still won't get out of the first round", give it up, if you use your brain instead of your heart you'll realize both teams just got significantly better.

AHF

KoriEllis

07-22-2003, 09:23 PM

Kori, sort of OT, but where are things with the Piatkowski and Boykins talks?

I'm not sure. I haven't talked to anyone this afternoon. I'll try to find out.

texbound

07-22-2003, 09:35 PM

If not, then STFU. What do you guys want the Spurs to do, magically get players and give up nothing? People seem to think we could have given them Speedy and a bag of chips -- that wouldn't have brought Spree here.

I understand what you're saying. It's just very frustrating seeing teams get better while the Spurs have stayed stagnant, or with the loss of SPeedy today, seen their talent level even drop. Like I said before, Spree may not have been the best fit, but Minny was aggressive and came out far ahead in this deal. It's just frustrating to see other teams get better, while your team says they're at least trying.

Tex

Mark in Austin

07-22-2003, 09:39 PM

uhhh...Minny has been trying to trade Brandon for months. Its not like Kevin McHale got up this morning and said "hmmm....maybe I'll trade Terrell today." and then called up some buddies and did it before he hit the golf course.

ShoogarBear

07-22-2003, 09:49 PM

Still, if you look at it completely objectively, three weeks ago San Antonio was in a much better position to improve themselves than LA or Minny. Today, anyone with an iota of basketball knowledge must acknowledge that LA and Minny are much improved, and the Spurs are not.

What it all means once the season starts, no one can say. But objectively, for whatever reasons you might care to give, their front offices are waxing ours this offseason.

KoriEllis

07-22-2003, 10:04 PM

Still, if you look at it completely objectively, three weeks ago San Antonio was in a much better position to improve themselves than LA or Minny. Today, anyone with an iota of basketball knowledge must acknowledge that LA and Minny are much improved, and the Spurs are not.

That's very true. But it remains to be seen if their acquisitions will pan out to be actual improvements. On paper, the Lakers and Minny got better. On the court?

We'll see.

The Spurs are just sitting around -- it's just unfortunately their efforts haven't amounted to anything.

The Ultimate Diva

07-22-2003, 10:25 PM

"Sprewell, a fan favorite in New York, has spent the last five seasons with the Knicks. Playing out of position at small forward, the 6-5 Sprewell averaged 16.4 points last season. He spent the first six years of his career with the Warriors, and is a career 19.1 points-per-game scorer."

msn.espn.go.com/nba/news/...84275.html (http://msn.espn.go.com/nba/news/2003/0722/1584275.html)

If Sprewell isn't meant to play the 3, then it seems like we made out just fine by passing on the deal.

ShoogarBear

07-22-2003, 10:26 PM

As Pop is fond of saying, on the Spurs there's really no difference between the 2 and the 3.

ChumpDumper

07-22-2003, 10:32 PM

When you got 6'7" and 6'8" guys in the three man rotation, it really doesn't matter.

Whottt

07-22-2003, 11:46 PM

If I could have a moment of everyone's time to touch on one small issue...

HOW IN THE FUCKING HELL IS IT THAT MINNESOTA GAVE UP NOTHING BUT THE EXPIRING CONTRACT OF AN INJURED PLAYER FOR SPREEWELL WHILE IT WAS GOING TO COST US MALIKE FUCKING ROSE OR STEPHEN FUCKING JACKSON?

EXCUSE ME IF I AM DENSE BUT WHY IN THE FUCKING HELL COULDN"T WE HAVE FILLED MINNESOTA"S ROLE IN THIS DEAL AND LANDED SPREE WITHOUT LOSING JAX OR ROSE???

WHERE IN THEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE **** ARE ALL YOU GUYS SAYING WE HAVE TO GIVE UP SOMETHING TO GET SOMETHING NOW?

Dammit, if I could make my caps bigger I would...

Something is fucking up here...don't give me the no one wants to play in SA bullshit..don't give me the it's all part of the plan bullshit! Pop wanted Spree...I believe the quote was that Spree is like his son...So why in the **** is it that we were gonna have to give up a key player to get him while Minnesota gave up nothing but a dead contract?

Maybe I just don't fucking get it..but IMFuckingO someone needs to take some motherfucking negotiation lessons.

MannyIsGod

07-22-2003, 11:49 PM

If not, then STFU. What do you guys want the Spurs to do, magically get players and give up nothing? People seem to think we could have given them Speedy and a bag of chips -- that wouldn't have brought Spree here.

Depends on what chips Kori. And if not Speedy and chips, SCOLA and chips. Doesn't everyone here know that Scola is a franchise player because he played well against JOneal?

That TimVP is a lucky man. ;)

Cassius Clay

07-22-2003, 11:52 PM

The reason is because since Minnesota sent out a player then they could match Spree's salary within 115% + $100k. For the Spurs they were operating with $12 mil in cap room. Spree's deal was $13.5 mil. The Spurs could only go $100k over the cap in a trade. Apparently they could not get another team to absorb the difference in the cap hit. Hence the talk about the Spurs sending back a player under contract like Rose or Ginobili.

Whottt

07-23-2003, 12:00 AM

Something stil doesn't wash...my check of hoopshype salary info says that Brandon's contract was @10 million...

We had 12 mil in cap space..

Are you saying the Wolves brining in Atlanta made it possible for them to do this?

If so why couldn't we do it? Why didn't we do it?

I see a **** up..I don't question Pop's ability to coach or Pop or RC's ability to judge talent...but what I am beginning to doubt is their salesmanship in convincing players to come here and in convincing other teams to work with us.

We had more cap space to offer Altanta than Brandon's contract, at least accodring to my info.

This sucks. Someone dropped the ball...

And anyone that doesn't think that Minnesota becomes a huge bitch of an offensive team with Wally, Spree, Cassell and Garnette is on crack!

Minnesota will challenge for the best record in the NBA this season...I didn't want Spree for Manu, Rose or Jax but you can damn well believe I wanted him for empty cap space.

Face it our guys are getting out manuevered by people playing with less of a deck..I am not totally miserable about this offseason..I am glad we didn't lose any guys, and I didn't want Kidd..I think we will be better off because of that..

But the fact is that we aren't fortunate in those areas because of execution and efforts of our FO...more like we didn't do those things because of a lack of execution and incompetence in negotiation with FA's and other teams...

IOW we got lucky on Kidd and some trades, but that was inspite of our FO, not because of them.

ChumpDumper

07-23-2003, 12:04 AM

There are reports about other players being involved like Marc Jackson and/or Troy Hudson.

Cassius Clay

07-23-2003, 12:06 AM

Brandon's deal was $10 mil last season. Factor in an increase for 2003-04 and 15% + $100k more and that should get you to Spree's $13.5 mil.

What I said was that since Minnesota was trading a contract they had the ability to use the +/-15% + $100k 'rule' when matching salaries, unlike the Spurs who were simply using cap room and could only use the +$100k rule.

ShoogarBear

07-23-2003, 12:17 AM

Whottt said more, um, colorfully what I did.

Two teams who started the summer with very little wiggle room have been taking our front office to school.

timvp

07-23-2003, 12:20 AM

The same people who were crying about trading Rose or Manu are now crying that the T'Wolves got Spree?

Figures.

P.S.

That TimVP is a lucky man.

Tru dat.:queen

Cassius Clay

07-23-2003, 12:22 AM

OK, if the Spurs wanted not to be "taken to school" then they would have had to ship out players. And we know a number of you would've bitched nonstop about that.

As for Malone you guys don't seem able to understand that the Spurs made him an offer. He didn't want to join the champs he wanted to go to a team where he could help take them to that next level.

Brand didn't sign the offer sheet with SA because Nike wouldn't give him a deal if he did. Then hell froze over and the Clips matched the offer.

JO'Neal wouldn't return Pop's calls. Kidd opted to stay in NJ.

What exactly should the Spurs have done differently?

ShoogarBear

07-23-2003, 12:23 AM

The same people who were crying about trading Rose or Manu are now crying that the T'Wolves got Spree?

Without trading ANYBODY? Yes.

Cassius Clay

07-23-2003, 12:24 AM

Again, the Spurs didn't have the cap room to trade for Spree with 'nothing' else.

Whottt

07-23-2003, 12:33 AM

TimVP...ok maybe there is merit to what MB says but I am not so sure he is right about that..and I am not so sure there wasn't a way to pull it off anyway...

Just to make it clear...

IMO

Spreewell > 12 million in empty capspace
Spreewell < Jax and Manu

Get the difference? There is one..

MannyIsGod

07-23-2003, 12:35 AM

might as well give up marcus, someone here will always bitch

Cassius Clay

07-23-2003, 12:35 AM

They would have had to ship out at least one player under contract in order to land Spree (Ginobili, Rose, or Bowen). Of course it is up to the other team(s) in the deal as to who they would want.

The Spurs didn't want to ship out Rose or Ginobili. Apparently no one wanted Bowen and/or the Spurs were unwilling to part with him.

Whottt

07-23-2003, 12:42 AM

If what you say it true then ok I can see why they did it and I agree with it......but what kind of bullshit is it that gives the advantage in trades to teams that are over the cap?

Cassius Clay

07-23-2003, 12:44 AM

Well, a team in a trade usually has to give up something of value when they are trading a contract. It's not often that a team is trading the contract of a player who is expected to retire.

ChumpDumper

07-23-2003, 12:44 AM

ok maybe there is merit to what MB says but I am not so sure he is right about that..and I am not so sure there wasn't a way to pull it off anyway

He is.

There wasn't.

MissAllThat

07-23-2003, 12:51 AM

This hasn't been finalized, and I guess tonight I will pray that it doesn't happen.

Admiral

07-23-2003, 01:08 AM

We shouldn't have done anything differently here. In fact, this is perhaps the best move we've made all summer.

Even though Sprewell is a "name," his stats last year were very underwhelming. He's slightly better than SJax is now, but I will definitely take my chances with SJax continuing to grow and develop as a player. I would have been ticked if we had traded just SJax for Spree, much less SJax AND Rose. Sprewell's play no longer justifies his contract, and I like the way our guys play together. Not only do I not fault the Spurs, I commend them. They did the right thing.

Minnesota and the Lakers have done a great job this summer, but we will be fine. Watch and see.

Cassius Clay

07-23-2003, 01:16 AM

Short term moves. If this team's talent is all it's cracked up to be then keep it together.

T Park Num 9

07-23-2003, 02:19 AM

trading jack or malik wouldve been horrible.

WIthout involving someone like that, the spurs didnt have enough cap room to do it.

But cassius give it up, they will still beef and moan because they are uneducated dumbfucks.

DOnt you know the SPurs are supposed to have all stars at EVERY position????

QUESTION!!!!