Suns don't wait long to sign a big man - watchout league [Archive]

timvp

11-02-2005, 04:07 PM

I can't find any scouting info on him; what's the scoop? Will he contribute or be a chair warmer?

He's actually pretty good. Of the three players the Spurs looked at (Ford, Melvin Sanders, Stephen Graham), he's by far the most NBA ready. He has the size, athleticism and the skill to be an NBA player. He just has to put it all together.

His leaping ability should be a perfect match when paired with Steve Nash. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he eventually steals Brian Grant's minutes.

picnroll

11-02-2005, 04:07 PM

Athletic. Good rebounder. Active defender that can block some shots. Can score a little. Nice pickup for the Suns.

BillsCarnage

11-02-2005, 04:07 PM

The Suns needed to do this.

Their backup bigs in Tischer, Reiner and Burke are embarrassing. Ford is definitely a step up.

agree 100%, but Burke has an inkling of potential to play. If Ford can run then he should get playing time.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 04:09 PM

What's the Holt Cat jockers spin on this?

T Park

11-02-2005, 04:09 PM

The Suns signed training camp fodder.

Their point?

timvp

11-02-2005, 04:10 PM

The only reason he's not on the Spurs is because the Spurs didn't want to pay the luxury tax penalty. Otherwise, he was a no-brainer addition as a 14th man.

Oh, Gee!!

11-02-2005, 04:10 PM

Two open roster spots.

No money though. Rasho will burn!!

T Park

11-02-2005, 04:10 PM

Whats the spin?

They signed a 5th string forward.

Should the Spurs hand the season over to the Suns now?

Overreact much?!?!

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 04:10 PM

Why help your enemy?

picnroll

11-02-2005, 04:11 PM

What's the Holt Cat jockers spin on this?
If the Spurs signed everybody you bitched about them not signing they'd have a bigger roster than the Cowboys.

T Park

11-02-2005, 04:11 PM

14th man.

Yet the Suns signing him means doom for the Spurs.

Makes sense.

Kori Ellis

11-02-2005, 04:12 PM

agree 100%, but Burke has an inkling of potential to play. If Ford can run then he should get playing time.

You should replace Reiner with my friend Noel Felix. I know that his agent was talking to the Suns this week.

Reiner is the player we most made fun of in summer league of 2004 when we went to Rocky Mt. Revue. Oh wait .. he was second. Jamison Brewer was the most laughed at.

timvp

11-02-2005, 04:12 PM

Yet the Suns signing him means doom for the Spurs.

Makes sense.

Who is talking about doom?

T Park

11-02-2005, 04:12 PM

Why help your enemy?

Oh yes, Ford will replace Stoudamire and make Phoenix totally forget hes gone.

lol, uh ok....

coopdogg3

11-02-2005, 04:13 PM

timvp

11-02-2005, 04:13 PM

Jared Reiner on the Suns might be the weirdest match I could imagine. Perhaps JWill on the Jazz could top it.

BillsCarnage

11-02-2005, 04:14 PM

They signed a 5th string forward.

Should the Spurs hand the season over to the Suns now?

Just trying to find info on him. Compared to what the Suns have now (Burke, Tisher and Reiner) anyone is an upgrade. And seeing as how the lack of inside game was exposed an athletic PF might help. No one is saying they're going to be Spurs beaters now.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 04:14 PM

It's not like the Spurs are going to keep the current bigman depth long term. They were ready to give away Radoslav for nothing this past summer. Bench depth does matter and hey, if you can develop the talent in house then that's like being able to sign a free agent who normally would command a long term deal for nothing. The coaching staff has demonstrated an ability to develop young talent.

Pinching pennies now is not conducive to maintaining a championship caliber team. I could care less if that ownership group makes a little extra beer money. If you're a fan of the income statement, stmt of cash flows and balance sheet, where there are other places on the internets for that.

timvp

11-02-2005, 04:15 PM

I thought Ford wasn't kept because he was an undersized PF that wouldn't be able to transmit his game to the SF spot. With Horry fulfilling the role of the undersized PF for the next 2 years, there just wasn't going to be a role for Ford. /shrug Wish him luck in Phoenix where his style of play should match up well with Nash & co.

coopdogg3

No. Pop straight out says that Ford is an NBA player with good potential. The only reason he's not on the Spurs is because Holt didn't want to pay the extra $400,000 or whatever it is.

This could very easily turn out to be like when the Spurs let Udonis Haslem sign with the Heat because they were trying to save cap space.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 04:16 PM

Oh yes, Ford will replace Stoudamire and make Phoenix totally forget hes gone.

lol, uh ok....

Nope. But giving them prospects on the cheap isn't good.

T Park

11-02-2005, 04:16 PM

Who is talking about doom?

What's the Holt Cat jockers spin on this?

Id say Marcus is ready to put Peter Holt, the only owner to preside over the Spurs only 3 championships on the next boat to Bora Bora.

Hes freakin out over the Suns signing a 14th player on the roster.

Did we freak out when Devin Brown signed with Utah?
Jason hart signed with Charlotte?
Amal Mckaskill signed with Philadelphia???!!?!
Gerard King with the Wizards?

T Park

11-02-2005, 04:18 PM

But giving them prospects on the cheap isn't good.

When the SPurs traded Gordan Giricek you didn't put up a fight, whats the difference.

timvp

11-02-2005, 04:18 PM

With Stoudemire injured, I don't know of another bigman on the Suns better than Ford other than Kurt Thomas.

Do you?

Kori Ellis

11-02-2005, 04:19 PM

Last night Boris Diaw was playing center for a few minutes. So I'd say they are pretty desperate to replace the Tischer/Reiner/Burke crew.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 04:20 PM

Haslem with the Heat?

Again, I am not saying that Ford is going to be a star. But why give up a prospect who Pop thought was worthwhile to save what amounts to peanuts in the NBA? Why give a rival the opportunity to turn Ford into something worthwhile?

At what point does it stop? Does moving Udrih to save a little lux tax sound like a good idea because he isn't in the rotation?

T Park

11-02-2005, 04:20 PM

Kevin Willis one would be better.

He can still run, rebound, defend decently.

At least run as well Kurt Thomas.

I dunno, scour the NBDL or CBA, you might find someone.

T Park

11-02-2005, 04:21 PM

Does moving Udrih to save a little lux tax sound like a good idea because he isn't in the rotation

Udrih is a slow mediocre point guard.

Go ahead and cut him.

Id rather draft someone again, or move up in the draft for someone else.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 04:23 PM

Udrih is a slow mediocre point guard.

Go ahead and cut him.

Id rather draft someone again, or move up in the draft for someone else.

How can you see the keyboard with Holt Cat's nuts on your chins?

Oh, Gee!!

11-02-2005, 04:26 PM

Nope. But giving them prospects on the cheap isn't good.

Spurs couldn't hold onto Ford because they have no money for him. They had to cut him loose. Spurs don't really care where he ends up I'm sure.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 04:28 PM

Spurs couldn't hold onto Ford because they have no money for him.

Um yeah, that's the problem.

nkdlunch

11-02-2005, 04:28 PM

Udrih is a slow mediocre point guard.

Go ahead and cut him.

Id rather draft someone again, or move up in the draft for someone else.

I'll tell you what's slow and mediocre, your posts. How can you "draft someone again" !? :lol

Oh, Gee!!

11-02-2005, 04:30 PM

Um yeah, that's the problem.

They simply didn't need his services. Why would they spend anymore cash for a seatwarmer?

coopdogg3

11-02-2005, 04:31 PM

Especially since we don't have a 1st rounder this year. Might have some trades though. If not in the regular season, then something should happen this up-coming off-season.

coopdogg3

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 04:31 PM

They simply didn't need his services. Why would they spend anymore cash for a seatwarmer?

Um they've carried "seatwarmers" in each of the last 7 seasons, at least. Why give up a young prospect to be developed by someone else?

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 04:32 PM

Especially since we don't have a 1st rounder this year. Might have some trades though. If not in the regular season, then something should happen this up-coming off-season.

coopdogg3

We have a winner. There's no reason to stop trying to find quality prospects now just because this year's version is stacked.

Oh, Gee!!

11-02-2005, 04:35 PM

Um they've carried "seatwarmers" in each of the last 7 seasons, at least. Why give up a young prospect to be developed by someone else?

Cuz this year the only seatwarmers will be Rasho and Beno. Those two guys are your trade bait.

coopdogg3

11-02-2005, 04:35 PM

Maybe Spurs can reverse the tables on other teams for a change. LOL. Maybe Phoenix grabs Ford, develops him, and the Spurs use part of the MLE next season to steal him away. Good times. Phoenix would have a hard time matching with all the max and near-max contracts they have. And with Amare coming back, they probably won't want/need Ford back anyway. /shrug. Stranger things have happened.

Can't say I overly care about our 14th player unless he fits a particular role. Undersized PF is already filled. I do like the idea of bringing Glenn Robinson back more and more though. I think Marcus mentioned it, with the Spurs having trouble with the bigger SF of Carmelo Anthony, it might be nice for the Spurs to have a larger SF to match.

coopdogg3

ChumpDumper

11-02-2005, 04:36 PM

If you were trying to play Diaw at PF, Ford is a definite improvement. Very athletic, good rebounder, nice post moves though he gets blocked fairly often. Decent length, nice blocking ability, mediocre D but a bit versatile due to his speed. No outside game whatsoever. Needs to put on 15 pounds, which is all his frame could probably take -- get pushed around alot.

I would've picked Felix first, but Ford is an NBA player -- just a matter of time.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 04:38 PM

Cuz this year the only seatwarmers will be Rasho and Beno. Those two guys are your trade bait.

Again, the Spurs have carried at least 2 on IR forever.

Radoslav and Beno are on the active roster.

T Park

11-02-2005, 04:40 PM

How can you see the keyboard with Holt Cat's nuts on your chins

How can you see the game through the red hot hate you have for the Only owner to bring this team rings.

ChumpDumper

11-02-2005, 04:40 PM

I'm not sure the Spurs are done signing folks, but we had pretty much what Ford gave in Linton Johnson.

timvp

11-02-2005, 04:41 PM

MB made a good point about Rasho. If the Spurs do succeed in trading him, they'd suddenly be a big man short. They could go with Marks, but Marks gets hurt more than Marcus Camby.

Then what?

Good thing the Spurs don't have Udonis Haslem, Jr. as the 14th man, right Spurs fans?

:rolleyes

Oh, Gee!!

11-02-2005, 04:42 PM

Again, the Spurs have carried at least 2 on IR forever.

Radoslav and Beno are on the active roster.

This year they have one on reserve. So what? They don't need Ford. Like five guys would have to go down before he played. There's no getting through to you.

Bruno

11-02-2005, 04:43 PM

I don't think money was the only issue with Ford.
He plays good but Spurs have still 6 PF/C this season and way better big men prospect in Europe (Scola, Javtokas and Mahinmi).
If Spurs invited for the camp 1PG, 3SG/SF and 1PF, it's because they were looking on a swingman.
None of the 3 SG/SF play well enough to spend $1.5M for.
Ford plays good but Spurs needn't a PF.
You can't keep a player only because he has the nba level without any roster consideration.
If Nobody claims him from waivers, there is a reason : he is not that good.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 04:45 PM

From a depth perspective it isn't good but I look at it more from a talent/prospecting angle. Why handicap one of the best talent evaluation staffs in the league over what is a pittance in the NBA? That is asinine. If you have the opportunity to find and develop more talent why stop that just because your team is stacked today?

T Park

11-02-2005, 04:46 PM

Boy its just absolute misery to be a Spurs fan isn't it??

Oh, Gee!!

11-02-2005, 04:47 PM

Boy its just absolute misery to be a Spurs fan isn't it??

Just wait till Ford schools us in the Western Conf. Finals. Then we'll all be kissing MB's ass.

coopdogg3

11-02-2005, 04:47 PM

Last year we had 2 real centers in Rash and Nazr with Duncan playing some as well. Heck we only got Nazr for the last 1/3 of the season.

Now, all of a sudden, with Oberto, Nazr, Rash, and Duncan playing some center - we'll have some gaping hole at the Center position if we trade Rash. I think it will take some time for Oberto to learn the ropes which is why I don't think Rash will be traded, if at all, until closer to the trade dead-line when the Spurs have a clearer picture of what Oberto brings to the table. I think Rash stays until next year's off-season at any rate, when the whole Rash vs. Nazr thing plays itself out. But losing Rash this season would hardly leave a big-man void that could only be filled by Ford.

coopdogg3

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 04:50 PM

This year they have one on reserve. So what? They don't need Ford. Like five guys would have to go down before he played. There's no getting through to you.

So what? That hasn't been an issue before. Apparently you cannot understand the advantage of taking a young player and developing him on IR.

Remember Stephen Jackson? Thank you.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 04:51 PM

Just wait till Ford schools us in the Western Conf. Finals. Then we'll all be kissing MB's ass.

Just wait until when you find a clue.

Bruno

11-02-2005, 04:51 PM

If you have the opportunity to find and develop more talent why stop that just because your team is stacked today?

They aren't only stacked this year but in the years to come too.
Javtokas will likely come next year, Mahinmi in one or two years and maybe Scola one day.
The only thing I regret is that Spurs doesn't sign another SG/SF as 14th man.

T Park

11-02-2005, 04:52 PM

If the Spurs are so damn cheap.

How come they signed Michael Finley at 2.5 or 2.7 million

when they coulda kep Devin at 2.

Cheaper, plays the same position.

Once again, if they are so cheap, why didn't they do that?

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 04:53 PM

Oh, Gee!!

11-02-2005, 04:54 PM

So what? That hasn't been an issue before. Apparently you cannot understand the advantage of taking a young player and developing him on IR.

Remember Stephen Jackson? Thank you.

yeah, but we don't need to do that this year. There's plenty of Fords out there.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 04:54 PM

They aren't only stacked this year but in the years to come too.
Javtokas will likely come next year, Mahinmi in one or two years and maybe Scola one day.
The only thing I regret is that Spurs doesn't sign another SG/SF as 14th man.

There's a reason they haven't done that.

Kori Ellis

11-02-2005, 04:54 PM

They aren't only stacked this year but in the years to come too.
Javtokas will likely come next year, Mahinmi in one or two years and maybe Scola one day.

Funny I was just saying to LJ that they AREN'T stacked for years to come. This year's bench is pretty old. And the only one of the overseas players that I see ever coming is MAYBE Mahinmi in 3 years or so. I'm not worried about the Spurs at all, but I wish they'd eventually get that young, athletic forward here to start grooming. Pop talked about it a lot in the last two offseasons but it still hasn't materialized.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 04:54 PM

yeah, but we don't need to do that this year. There's plenty of Fords out there.

Oh sure, it's so easy to land talent that is needed. Just like when the Spurs needed a small forward back in '99....

Bruno

11-02-2005, 04:56 PM

Remember Stephen Jackson? Thank you.

Stephen jackson played one season in nba with 635 pts before signing with Spurs. Not the same case.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 04:56 PM

Funny I was just saying to LJ that they AREN'T stacked for years to come. This year's bench is pretty old. And the only one of the overseas players that I see ever coming is MAYBE Mahinmi in 3 years or so. I'm not worried about the Spurs at all, but I wish they'd eventually get that young, athletic forward here to start grooming. Pop talked about it a lot in the last two offseasons but it still hasn't materialized.

No kidding. The swing rotation consists of 3 guys aged 32 and up.

And again, so what if the team is stacked this year? What the fuck is wrong with bringing in a couple of young guys to develop for the future? Why is everyone so concerned about seeing the ownership group make a few extra $? Are you guys basketball fans?

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 04:58 PM

Stephen jackson played one season in nba with 635 pts before signing with Spurs. Not the same case.

Close enough. He was looking to stay in the league after Byron Scott basically said he was uncoachable. He played on the Spurs' summerleague team, looking for a job. That's hardly what you would expect someone who wasn't on the bubble in the league to do.

Oh, Gee!!

11-02-2005, 04:58 PM

Oh sure, it's so easy to land talent that is needed. Just like when the Spurs needed a small forward back in '99....

Ford is a mediocre rookie. Why are you all over his nuts?

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 04:59 PM

JamStone

11-02-2005, 04:59 PM

I don't really know the answer to this, but do Spurs fans think Sean Marks is better than Sharrod Ford? And, if not, is Marks still here instead of Ford just because he's really well-liked?

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 04:59 PM

Ford is a mediocre rookie. Why are you all over his nuts?

It's not just about Ford. It's about not taking on young prospects and trying to develop them because of a paltry sum in the NBA. Is this not clear?

coopdogg3

11-02-2005, 05:04 PM

I'm not too concerned about depth this season, but there is something to consider. If you see TD getting 35 minutes a night and Horry getting around 15, that leaves 46 minutes for the other bigs. That's a rather significant chunk of time.

/shrug. 23 minutes to Oberto, 23 minutes to Nazr doesn't seem that tough. Heck give Marks a few minutes and move Oberto to PF for 5-6 minutes a game. Trading Rash (unless it's for another big), and then having an injury hit Oberto or Nazr would be tough to swallow. That's why I don't see anything happening until next year as far as Rash is concerned.

coopdogg3

Oh, Gee!!

11-02-2005, 05:04 PM

It's not just about Ford. It's about not taking on young prospects and trying to develop them because of a paltry sum in the NBA. Is this not clear?

Oh, I'm sure you'd like to develop Ford's "young prospects."

:jack

Bruno

11-02-2005, 05:05 PM

Funny I was just saying to LJ that they AREN'T stacked for years to come. This year's bench is pretty old. And the only one of the overseas players that I see ever coming is MAYBE Mahinmi in 3 years or so. I'm not worried about the Spurs at all, but I wish they'd eventually get that young, athletic forward here to start grooming. Pop talked about it a lot in the last two offseasons but it still hasn't materialized.

If they have signed Oberto, I see no reason not to sign Javtokas.
For mahinmi, I say one or two years.
Correct me if I'm wrong : They were looking for a small forward, not for a power forward. Ford hasn't the perimeter play to play SF ?

Bruno

11-02-2005, 05:08 PM

Close enough. He was looking to stay in the league after Byron Scott basically said he was uncoachable. He played on the Spurs' summerleague team, looking for a job. That's hardly what you would expect someone who wasn't on the bubble in the league to do.

You can become coachable but you can't become talented.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 05:10 PM

Talent can be developed into something useful on the NBA level.

Mr. Peabody

11-02-2005, 05:12 PM

Oh, I'm sure you'd like to develop Ford's "young prospects."

:jack

I blame this on Rasho!
________
KutieDoll (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/cam/KutieDoll/)

smeagol

11-02-2005, 05:12 PM

If you see TD getting 35 minutes a night and Horry getting around 15, that leaves 46 minutes for the other bigs. That's a rather significant chunk of time.
You don't think Nazr, Rasho and Oberto can handle 46 minutes?

coopdogg3

11-02-2005, 05:14 PM

Smeagol, MB was questioning, I think, the number of minutes if the Spurs move Rasho. Leaving 46 minutes for Oberto and Nazr.

coopdogg3

angel_luv

11-02-2005, 05:16 PM

All right Ford! Well done!

smeagol

11-02-2005, 05:22 PM

Smeagol, MB was questioning, I think, the number of minutes if the Spurs move Rasho. Leaving 46 minutes for Oberto and Nazr.
Fair enough.

Although I think Horry can play 20 minutes and Nazr and Oberto can play the balance (40 minutes).

ChumpDumper

11-02-2005, 05:24 PM

Ah, if you get rid of Rasho just activate Marks or dust off Massenburg. Why are you all so worried about such an obviously worthless player?

Kip Fanatic

11-02-2005, 05:25 PM

Its pointless to try to change MB's mind. Its like chasing the wind. For some reason he is worried about the future of this team when all they can do is take care of today.

The reason the owner/owners don't want to spend extra $$ on Ford is because of the future you dork. If they give $$ to players who need to develop then they can't sign free agents who become available in the future. Why do you think the Spurs were able to sign guys like Oberto, Finley, & Van Exel? Because they know how to manage money.

There are a lot of teams who wish they were in the financial situation the Spurs are in.

picnroll

11-02-2005, 05:30 PM

Spurs were after James and then he ended up with the Suns. Indications were they might be interested in Dupree but the T Wolves grabbed him for a pick.

Maybe Pop just hasn't been able to get the guys he thinks are really worth investing the time in. I'll bet if RC and Pop felt really strongly there was a guy out there worth getting Holt would spring for it but no of them want to piss away time and money on a long shot.

TheWriter

11-02-2005, 05:37 PM

3 titles in 7 years with Holt as owner and people still wanna bag on this ownership because they didn't keep 2 undrafted players.

Would it have been nice? Sure, I always liked when I saw two or three players in suits sitting behind the bench. Now we only have one.

Bummer.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 05:38 PM

Its pointless to try to change MB's mind. Its like chasing the wind. For some reason he is worried about the future of this team when all they can do is take care of today.

Ridiculous. If they sign a young player and start grooming him now then they could very well end up with a solid role player tomorrow. There is plenty of precedent for the current coaching staff being able to do this. Have you not been paying attention?

The reason the owner/owners don't want to spend extra $$ on Ford is
because of the future you dork.

eh, suck a dick, 'nerd'.

If they give $$ to players who need to develop then they can't sign free agents who become available in the future. Why do you think the Spurs were able to sign guys like Oberto, Finley, & Van Exel? Because they know how to manage money.

Oh please. We are talking about peanuts in the NBA. A fucking rookie contract. They've done it before and I find it hard to believe that is going to make a huge difference in their operating performance as well as financial position over the next couple of years.

There are a lot of teams who wish they were in the financial situation the Spurs are in.

Sure, the Spurs have a sweetheart arena deal and have been fortunate that the basketball people have brought in talent that has enabled them to keep their payroll low when those players were on rookie deals, something that has enabled them to enjoy hefty lux tax distributions. They also were fortunate that Tim Duncan is about something more than selling Nikes. Ownership has succeeded when it has let the basketball people do their work. This newfound restriction they are placing on the management is all about the fucking lux tax and nothing else. I highly doubt that whether or not the Spurs hit below that magic threshold means much to their operating performance.

If you want to continue to be a gullible mofo, feel free.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 05:39 PM

Ah, if you get rid of Rasho just activate Marks or dust off Massenburg. Why are you all so worried about such an obviously worthless player?

It's not the player it's the principle. When does it end? They are losing talent and giving up opportunities to develop talent. That's not a good sign.

Oh, Gee!!

11-02-2005, 05:41 PM

It's not the player it's the principle. When does it end? They are losing talent and giving up opportunities to develop talent. That's not a good sign.

They should sign every available rookie so that nobody else can get them.

ChumpDumper

11-02-2005, 05:43 PM

It's not the player it's the principle.Players get cut every year. All I can see is whining because we are currently only carrying 13 players. I simply don't think we're done and your panic over cutting three borderline NBA players is premature.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 05:46 PM

The Spurs are usually done adding players by the start of the season. The only time that hasn't held is when something happened, like an injury.

ChumpDumper

11-02-2005, 05:50 PM

The Spurs are usually done adding players by the start of the season. The only time that hasn't held is when something happened, like an injury.As they were showing interest in Dupree, I disagree. There is a need on this team that none of the cut players met, plain and simple.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 05:53 PM

Maybe that interest in Dupree was predicated on another move...

Kip Fanatic

11-02-2005, 05:55 PM

It's not the player it's the principle. When does it end? They are losing talent and giving up opportunities to develop talent. That's not a good sign.

Freaking stupid! You know for sure that these guys are going to be solid players one day? Why throw money at them if you aren't sure and pay a tax?

Oh, Gee!!

11-02-2005, 05:58 PM

Freaking stupid! You know for sure that these guys are going to be solid players one day? Why throw money at them if you aren't sure and pay a tax?

It makes perfect sense really, spend all of your money into unproven young players so that no other team will get the opportunity to possibly develop them into mediocre older players.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 06:01 PM

Freaking stupid! You know for sure that these guys are going to be solid players one day? Why throw money at them if you aren't sure and pay a tax?

One thing's for certain, you're going to let someone else find out if they are.

You do realize that the Spurs are going to get back roughly 5 to 7 times as much tax as they "pay", no?

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 06:02 PM

It makes perfect sense really, spend all of your money into unproven young players so that no other team will get the opportunity to possibly develop them into mediocre older players.

"all of your money"? $300K is nothing in NBA terms.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 06:06 PM

Apparently some Spurs fans need to get up to speed with the subject at hand. The Spurs are going to get back like $10 mil under the lux tax program, if not more. If they spend an extra $300K on payroll that is not going to hurt their operating performance nor turn their roster into a bunch of mediocre players.

I guess I need to check the sign-in sheet on the bandwagon to see who's new here.

Oh, Gee!!

11-02-2005, 06:08 PM

$300K is nothing in NBA terms.

Oh, and which NBA team do you own?

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 06:11 PM

Don't need to own a team to know that is a rounding error for any NBA team's total payroll.

ShoogarBear

11-02-2005, 06:12 PM

Man, it's great the season has started!

coopdogg3

11-02-2005, 06:13 PM

I realize how the luxury tax pay-back system works. But I don't support keeping players for the sake of keeping players. I say the 14th player should have a role or purpose. Ford would never have found playing time for a reason, he is not needed. He has no role on this team. The role Ford would have filled is already occupied by better players. Let Phoenix develop him, and if the Spurs can use him next season, then the Spurs can sign him next year. The only role open on this team - the perennial search for Bowen's replacement won't be filled by finding some scrub for the 14th player position. Of course Bowen was an undrafted FA, so I could be wrong. And if I'm wrong I'll be glad to admit it.

But you're gonna have a tough time convincing me that Ford would have brought anything to the table this year, or next year - that isn't already filled by a better player. Guess we'll see what happens in Phoenix.

coopdogg3

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 06:18 PM

ChumpDumper

11-02-2005, 06:21 PM

Maybe that interest in Dupree was predicated on another move...Maybe not.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 06:21 PM

We'll see. Beno had a nice seat last night.

ChumpDumper

11-02-2005, 06:28 PM

coopdogg3

11-02-2005, 06:29 PM

The Spurs took someone off IR and made him their starting shooting guard the next season on a title team. The Spurs took someone off IR and made him their primary reserve bigman for 5 seasons, including 2 title runs, etc...

They've carried young prospects on IR for every prior season in the Pop era and Bob Hill and LBrown and Lucas did before him. What's changed this season? You have one of the best talent evaluation staffs in the league, if not the best. You really believe there aren't guys out there that they can find who would be worth taking a shot on? Get real.

The difference I see, is that this year's Spurs team is deeper than any of the previous years teams. Unless someone gets moved or there is a rash of injuries how do you see a 14th player getting time? Unless that player has a particular role that the Spurs will want to utilize for particular match-ups. I don't see Ford as possessing that type of play. Not to say the Spurs don't have their eyes on particular players, but it's obvious, to me, that Ford is not the type of player the Spurs need at this time.

coopdogg3

timvp

11-02-2005, 06:30 PM

Look, as I see it, only two teams over the tax threshold appreciably increased their spending. Many have let go actual NBA players -- not just Sharrod Fords. The elimination of the fuzzy math that existed in the tax code is making this all very real for all owners, not just Holt.

How many teams are only carrying 13 players?

I haven't looked it up, but I'd guess you can count those teams on one hand.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 06:31 PM

Look, as I see it, only two teams over the tax threshold appreciably increased their spending. Many have let go actual NBA players -- not just Sharrod Fords. The elimination of the fuzzy math that existed in the tax code is making this all very real for all owners, not just Holt.

Their payroll is going to continue to be heavily subsidized.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 06:32 PM

The difference I see, is that this year's Spurs team is deeper than any of the previous years teams. Unless someone gets moved or there is a rash of injuries how do you see a 14th player getting time? Unless that player has a particular role that the Spurs will want to utilize for particular match-ups. I don't see Ford as possessing that type of play. Not to say the Spurs don't have their eyes on particular players, but it's obvious, to me, that Ford is not the type of player the Spurs need at this time.

coopdogg3

That's this season. Why forego the potential to find useful players for beyond this season? It's not like they don't have the room.

ChumpDumper

11-02-2005, 06:34 PM

Their payroll is going to continue to be heavily subsidized.As will those of 21 other teams.

Your point?

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 06:35 PM

Between the fat lux tax distributions the Spurs have received over the last few seasons, the extra revenue from 2 title runs in the last 3 seasons and the arena deal it's hard to see how the Spurs are in such great financial danger moving forward.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 06:36 PM

As will those of 21 other teams.

Your point?

The point is that they are going to continue to get plenty of $ back under the system.

GoSpurs21

11-02-2005, 06:37 PM

Props to Peter Holt.show me the proof that the Spurs released Ford cause of Holt...

coopdogg3

11-02-2005, 06:37 PM

That's this season. Why forego the potential to find useful players for beyond this season? It's not like they don't have the room.

I also don't see much of a role for Ford next season either. Horry is signed for 2 years. Scola will be free, I think, of his buy-out in 2 years. Maybe we can bring Scola over next year. I just don't see a place for Ford, at all, on this team in the forseeable future. Keeping 14th members around because they can be useful in 3 years just doesn't make sense to me. I'm certainly not opposed to bringing another player on-board. Heck, like you said, we have the room. But let that player at least have the potential of possibly getting some playing time, or let that player be around to fill a need in the near future. Ford as an under-sized 4 is neither needed in the short-term nor the long-term IMHO.

coopdogg3

Bruno

11-02-2005, 06:37 PM

How many teams are only carrying 13 players?

I haven't looked it up, but I'd guess you can count those teams on one hand.

3
http://www.nba.com/news/Rosters_051031.html (http://)

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 06:38 PM

Ford has all the potential to be a NBA player. Why lose talent?

ChumpDumper

11-02-2005, 06:38 PM

The point is that they are going to continue to get plenty of $ back under the system.Yes, and more teams than ever will do so as well. That was my point. Only two teams were headed in the other direction.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 06:40 PM

Well good. So the Spurs will continue to benefit from the system along with a number of other franchises.

coopdogg3

11-02-2005, 06:43 PM

Ford has all the potential to be a NBA player. Why lose talent?

I'm just reminded of those Portland, Dallas, and Sacramento teams that whole-sale acquired talent in the pursuit of a ring. Talent needs to match need, purpose, style, etc. From what I've heard (OK, here's my big lie of shame, living in Alabama, I haven't seen Ford play at all, just going by word-of-mouth) Ford is more suited for an up-tempo style of play. And he would just sit on the IR list every night as it would be virtually impossible to find him playing time on this team. Virtually any player who has ever played the summer league has the potential to be an NBA player. Why should the Spurs keep this particular player is the question.

coopdogg3

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 06:44 PM

Portland, Dallas, et al would drop $20 mil on those players. We are talking about $300K.

Obstructed_View

11-02-2005, 06:44 PM

How many teams are only carrying 13 players?

I haven't looked it up, but I'd guess you can count those teams on one hand.
How many players were in the rotation by the time the Finals rolled around? I'm curious, what is the point of paying two extra guys that won't play?

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 06:45 PM

How many players were in the rotation by the time the Finals rolled around? I'm curious, what is the point of paying two extra guys that won't play?

To spend the season developing them. With the new 'minor league' system the NBA set up it would seem worth it to do so.

ChumpDumper

11-02-2005, 06:47 PM

We'll see. Beno had a nice seat last night.He was obviously being showcased.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 06:47 PM

He was obviously being showcased.

Perhaps protected.

TDMVPDPOY

11-02-2005, 06:48 PM

i hate this crap how the other teams are pickin up our shit, look at the guys we targeted in the offseason we targeted didnt end up with us, whoever we had an interest in the other teams will pounce first as if its treasure, they even pounce on our frontoffice, but who cares the empire will not break down from this, this is not goin to stop us from humiliating these freeloaders.

coopdogg3

11-02-2005, 06:49 PM

Portland, Dallas, et al would drop $20 mil on those players. We are talking about $300K.

I'm not talking about the money, my point is talent and potential are only important if it meets a need, purpose, etc on a team. Saying Ford has potential is not a good enough reason to sign him IMO. Everybody has potential, but does Ford's potential carry him to a place that the Spurs would find attractive? I say no. With Horry there is no room/need for Ford for the next 2 years. With Scola (if he ever signs with the team) there is no need for Ford for the next 5 years. Why do you want Ford? Because he has talent? Because he has potential?

Will he be a productive/useful player in a Spurs uniform should be the question, and I, quite simply, don't think he will be.

coopdogg3

Brutalis

11-02-2005, 06:50 PM

Ford has all the potential to be a NBA player. Why lose talent?
How many other players had the talent he does before him? I'd say several. And a lot of them had no injury problems, thus being the reason opinions heavily vary on the kid.

I know dude is from Texas and he's popular in Texas but he is only an investment to teams in dire need.

ChumpDumper

11-02-2005, 06:51 PM

Portland, Dallas, et al would drop $20 mil on those players. We are talking about $300K.You can't include Portland anymore. They shed $25 million in payroll this summer and don't even have a backup PF.
How many teams are only carrying 13 players?As I said, I don't think they're done.

ChumpDumper

11-02-2005, 06:51 PM

Perhaps protected.Perhaps out of the rotation.

Obstructed_View

11-02-2005, 06:52 PM

To spend the season developing them. With the new 'minor league' system the NBA set up it would seem worth it to do so.
What's the hurry? I don't see why it would be worth luxury taxed money to develop guys who won't be ready to contribute for two or three years. The Spurs might get someone to develop if they end up trading away some salary. This team is extraordinarily stacked, and they don't have any need to waste money right now. This is not Donald Sterling level money saving we are talking about, it's just prudent business.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 06:54 PM

I'm not talking about the money, my point is talent and potential are only important if it meets a need, purpose, etc on a team. Saying Ford has potential is not a good enough reason to sign him IMO. Everybody has potential, but does Ford's potential carry him to a place that the Spurs would find attractive? I say no. With Horry there is no room/need for Ford for the next 2 years. With Scola (if he ever signs with the team) there is no need for Ford for the next 5 years. Why do you want Ford? Because he has talent? Because he has potential?

Will he be a productive/useful player in a Spurs uniform should be the question, and I, quite simply, don't think he will be.

coopdogg3

Those teams blew a lot of money on players who were marginal, at best (ie Eschmeyer for $20 mil). Again, $300K is different. There is no point in not giving your talent staff the ability to try to find some gems at minimal cost.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 06:55 PM

What's the hurry? I don't see why it would be worth luxury taxed money to develop guys who won't be ready to contribute for two or three years. The Spurs might get someone to develop if they end up trading away some salary. This team is extraordinarily stacked, and they don't have any need to waste money right now. This is not Donald Sterling level money saving we are talking about, it's just prudent business.

They've done it for every season prior and it has paid off before and because the amount involved is small.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 06:55 PM

Perhaps out of the rotation.

We'll see.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 06:56 PM

You can't include Portland anymore. They shed $25 million in payroll this summer and don't even have a backup PF.

Then historically.

As I said, I don't think they're done.

We'll see. They've usually tried to wrap up their additions prior to the start of the season.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 06:56 PM

timvp

11-02-2005, 06:57 PM

As I said, I don't think they're done.

I said the Spurs weren't going to keep any of the cap invites. Now I believe that the Spurs are bluffing in saying they'd consider adding another player.

Not going to happen.

I'll bump this is June.

:hat

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 06:57 PM

How many other players had the talent he does before him? I'd say several. And a lot of them had no injury problems, thus being the reason opinions heavily vary on the kid.

I know dude is from Texas and he's popular in Texas but he is only an investment to teams in dire need.

How many times have the Spurs not tried to find young guys to carry on IR and develop? You have to go back into the 80s, perhaps.

ChumpDumper

11-02-2005, 06:58 PM

Then historically.That's just it -- that kind of spending is history for all but a couple of teams.
We'll see. They've usually tried to wrap up their additions prior to the start of the season.And they usually sign someone later.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 06:59 PM

That's just it -- that kind of spending is history for all but a couple of teams.

The Spurs are nowhere close to being where Portland was.

And they usually sign someone later.

Only due to multiple injuries.

ChumpDumper

11-02-2005, 07:00 PM

The Spurs are nowhere close to being where Portland was.Exactly -- they and all the other teams are following the Spurs lead, not the other way around.
Only due to multiple injuries.Well, those usually happen too, don't they?

Obstructed_View

11-02-2005, 07:00 PM

They've done it for every season prior and it has paid off before and because the amount involved is small.
They were never this deep before, and I don't think they were into the luxury tax before. Since when are millions of dollars a "small" amount?

We'll see. They've usually tried to wrap up their additions prior to the start of the season.
Malik for Nazr anyone?

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 07:01 PM

Exactly -- they and all the other teams are following the Spurs lead, not the other way around.

Yeah, don't give $30 mil to crap.

Well, those usually happen too, don't they?

Perhaps. But that's after they went to IR and those signings were temporary.

ChumpDumper

11-02-2005, 07:02 PM

I said the Spurs weren't going to keep any of the cap invites. Now I believe that the Spurs are bluffing in saying they'd consider adding another player.

Not going to happen.

I'll bump this is June.

:hatFeel free. I figure a trade will happen.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 07:02 PM

They were never this deep before, and I don't think they were into the luxury tax before. Since when are millions of dollars a "small" amount?

$300K is what a rookie free agent contract goes for.

Malik for Nazr anyone?

I was referring to free agent signings.

ChumpDumper

11-02-2005, 07:03 PM

Yeah, don't give $30 mil to crap.Our new point guard?
Perhaps. But that's after they went to IR and those signings were temporary.GRob made the playoff roster.

timvp

11-02-2005, 07:03 PM

Feel free. I figure a trade will happen.

Trade to dump salary? Yeah, that is likely.

But how about adding a 14th man like almost every other team in the league?

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 07:04 PM

Our new point guard?

NVE at $14 mil isn't that great. $1 mil? Come on down.

GRob made the playoff roster.

That only replensihed the number of players on IR they were carrying.

strangeweather

11-02-2005, 07:05 PM

Feel free. I figure a trade will happen.

I certainly can't imagine that they would get themselves $600K over the estimated tax threshold without some ideas for slipping under it during the season.

timvp

11-02-2005, 07:06 PM

Another reason why it makes no sense that the Spurs don't have a 14th man is because this is the first year that teams are allowed to send players to the NBDL.

14th men just became a lot more valuable.

ChumpDumper

11-02-2005, 07:06 PM

Trade to dump salary? Yeah, that is likely.

But how about adding a 14th man like almost every other team in the league?A decent three? Entirely possible. If you can convince me any of the three guys waived were decent small forwards....We had two undersized athletes and Linton Johnson with post moves.

Obstructed_View

11-02-2005, 07:10 PM

$300K is what a rookie free agent contract goes for.
So 600 grand isn't a lot of money to you? Okay, you can write me a check for a tenth of that and I'll be happy.

timvp

11-02-2005, 07:19 PM

After some research...

Number of teams with 15 players on their roster -- 90% of the NBA
Number of teams with 13 players on their roster -- 2

San Antonio and Atlanta.

Nice company there, Pete.

Bruno

11-02-2005, 07:22 PM

After some research...

Number of teams with 15 players on their roster -- 90% of the NBA
Number of teams with 13 players on their roster -- 2

San Antonio and Atlanta.

Nice company there, Pete.

3, you forget sacramento.
I post the link before
http://www.nba.com/news/Rosters_051031.html

coopdogg3

11-02-2005, 07:25 PM

I, for one, couldn't care less what the rest of the NBA is doing. I say if there is a player that the Spurs could conceivably use (SF) then sign him. I honestly don't see anything else approaching a need for this team. Maybe if some brute big man becomes available, then sure. Guess we'll see.

coopdogg3

picnroll

11-02-2005, 07:29 PM

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 08:07 PM

So 600 grand isn't a lot of money to you? Okay, you can write me a check for a tenth of that and I'll be happy.

Doesn't matter. In the NBA it is not.

Marcus Bryant

11-02-2005, 08:08 PM

How much did the Spurs need their 14th man last year, or the year before that, or the year before that ....

How many young 13th qnd 14th players haqve been kept and signed to long term contracts?

If they need somebody in a crunch they can call somebody up from the NBDL on a 10 day. Maybe not having a full roster will let them sign some guy who's actually showing something in the NBDL.

It's about finding a young player and developing him over the course of the seaosn. Now you can send a player to a NDBL team to get some work. Why not take advantage of that with one of the best talent evaluation staffs in the league? Why do Spurs fans not see the advantage? WTF?

Obstructed_View

11-05-2005, 12:48 PM

It's about finding a young player and developing him over the course of the seaosn. Now you can send a player to a NDBL team to get some work. Why not take advantage of that with one of the best talent evaluation staffs in the league? Why do Spurs fans not see the advantage? WTF?
You pay double salary to send a player to an NBDL team where you pay him to develop. He never sees the roster and goes to some other team next year or the year after, because you are so deep that you can't get him any PT. You also have draft picks coming up that you have to find something to do with over that same period of time, plus you have players that you own the rights to that aren't even in the league yet.

What's the advantage? Seriously. Why would anyone be critical of a professional sports team for trying to save some money. Why would anyone continue to insist that hundreds of thousands of dollars somehow don't mean anything?

Look, if the Spurs were a few million dollars under the cap or if they had a glaring weakness anywhere in their roster I could see it. Hell, even if they had a place that looked like it might be open for some competition I could see it. They arent, they don't and they don't.