Lonnie vs Derozan seriously?

[jermaine]

With Lonnie's seemingly to be in jury prone, would it truly be wise for the Spurs to trade Demar an let Lonnie take his position? Is Lonnie good enough to really take over for Demar? I say yes cuz he tries to play defense an he's waaaaay faster than Demar.

[RC_Drunkford]

I said it before the season started and I'll say it again: Walker is a better player than DeRozan. Better defender, better 3-point shooter and he can easily score 20 points in 38 minutes, but without the choking.

Now the real question: Who's the worse coach? Jim Boylen or Gregg Popovich?

[Genovaswitness]

I hope demar gets a career ending injury that allows us to clear him from the books

[spurspl]

and whats more important hes younger so he can still develop, really dont understand why the hell spurs traded for ddr...

[SpurSpike]

I'm starting to notice that when we play Lonnie the Spurs almost always start a comeback or take/hold the lead. When Lonnie leaves we go to shit again.

He is clearly the player that we should be building around. I say this as someone who was very critical of Lonnie early on but you cannot deny his skill at this point. He has the bursty speed that you cannot teach and a fire in him. He has the "it" factor and the makings of an all star.

I'm down to trade our vets at this point (besides Rudy as i think he plays well with Lonnie unlike the other vets). Let the LWIV era begin.

[koriwhat]

I'm starting to notice that when we play Lonnie the Spurs almost always start a comeback or take/hold the lead. When Lonnie leaves we go to shit again.

He is clearly the player that we should be building around. I say this as someone who was very critical of Lonnie early on but you cannot deny his skill at this point. He has the bursty speed that you cannot teach and a fire in him. He has the "it" factor and the makings of an all star.

I'm down to trade our vets at this point (besides Rudy as i think he plays well with Lonnie unlike the other vets). Let the LWIV era begin.

everything i was going to say and now don't need to. :tu

[OldMan88]

The team seems at it’s best when they are running. They’re also more mistake prone when running, but that’s cured by doing it more often. Unfortunately, the team slows to a crawl with DDR & LMA on the floor. These two need to be traded and start rebuilding around the young guns. Sure, they’ll make lots of boneheaded plays, but they can only learn how to avoid those mistakes by playing. Get it done now.

[RC_Drunkford]

I'm starting to notice that when we play Lonnie the Spurs almost always start a comeback or take/hold the lead. When Lonnie leaves we go to shit again.



that's what happens when you play 2-way players. Sadly this team doesn't have a lot of them

[Russ]

I hope demar gets a career ending injury that allows us to clear him from the books

He could just say he has an injury -- that seems to work. :)

[acoelho1]

It’s quite the contrast in styles. DDR with his plodding game with no defensive intensity and then you have Walker, who plays as if he was shot out of a rocket. It’s beyond time to move on from DDR & LMA. They aren’t Spurs material. I rather lose with our young guys while they get experience then continue using the same ole tired lineup.

[EasyMoney]

How about trade Bryn and let Lonnie play his natural position.

[koriwhat]

It’s quite the contrast in styles. DDR with his plodding game with no defensive intensity and then you have Walker, who plays as if he was shot out of a rocket. It’s beyond time to move on from DDR & LMA. They aren’t Spurs material. I rather lose with our young guys while they get experience then continue using the same ole tired lineup.

:tu

if we're tanking then let the young guns have all the minutes. i'm sick of mediocrity and slowness with our 2 slugs in ddr & la.

[FkLA]

This is Lonnie's team, tbh.

Pop, DD, and LMA just don't know it yet.

[tholdren]

I said it before the season started and I'll say it again: Walker is a better player than DeRozan. Better defender, better 3-point shooter and he can easily score 20 points in 38 minutes, but without the choking.

Now the real question: Who's the worse coach? Jim Boylen or Gregg Popovich?

Lol. This is crazy

[beachwood]

Lonnie is the team's best player. He just needs the minutes and consistency to show it.

[beachwood]

This is Lonnie's team, tbh.

Pop, DD, and LMA just don't know it yet.

This is correct, tbh.

[tbdog]

If Lonnie becomes nearly as good as DD on offense, Spurs nailed the pick. We need to give the keys to the guy soon. He could be as good as rookie Mitchell right now and younger to top it off.

[Spurtacular]

The Spurs have a legit Big Three with DeRozan, LMA, IV. This either/or stuff is the byproduct of accepting Gregg's bull shit rotations.

[Spurtacular]

This is Lonnie's team, tbh.

Pop, DD, and LMA just don't know it yet.

Gregg knows it; that's why he's bitchin' him.

[Chinook]

Those runs often involve DeRozan playing the four. People aren't going to believe me until timvp or someone else writes and article about it. But yeah, look at his best lineups from bball reference:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/walkelo01/lineups/2020

It's not an either/or thing. The team needs to play smaller and faster, and that means getting Mills, Walker, DeRozan, Poeltl (or LMA if he's having a good game) and some other small on the court, preferably one who can shoot while not being a defensive liablity. The reason why this isn't a death lineup is because the Spurs don't really have that fifth player. They have two defenders in Murray and White, and they have two shooters in Forbes and Beli. But if they had a guy who could do both, it would be the clear-cut closing lineup against all but the biggest teams.

[Slippy]

His defense alone is top notch. He has the speed one on one and the recovery when he's beat is eyepopping. There's a play last game where he stayed with his man and then recovered to rebound his man's miss, jumping over others for the board. No 1 on our team is comes close to that ability. The team defense will only get better when he plays thru experience.

On offense, that three looks money now especially when he open and he easily the best driver of the team.

He needs to start. Pop can't help himself when it comes to rotations . Don't care if its for Bryn or Demar.

[Slippy]

Edit. Double post

[jermaine]

An this is what I mean... Lonnie just cant stay healthy. His knees cant handle his own quickness.

[R. DeMurre]

Those runs often involve DeRozan playing the four. People aren't going to believe me until timvp (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8) or someone else writes and article about it. But yeah, look at his best lineups from bball reference:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/walkelo01/lineups/2020

It's not an either/or thing. The team needs to play smaller and faster, and that means getting Mills, Walker, DeRozan, Poeltl (or LMA if he's having a good game) and some other small on the court, preferably one who can shoot while not being a defensive liablity. The reason why this isn't a death lineup is because the Spurs don't really have that fifth player. They have two defenders in Murray and White, and they have two shooters in Forbes and Beli. But if they had a guy who could do both, it would be the clear-cut closing lineup against all but the biggest teams.

The sample sizes on those line ups are so tiny as to make them nearly meaningless, but while DeRozan is part of the top line up, he's not in the #2 or #3 best. Derrick White is part of the #1 and #2 most successful line ups, which makes sense to me because I think he's better counterpart to Walker than DeRozan, who is a higher usage rate player in addition to being a defensive liability. Any way I look at it, DeRozan simply isn't part of a championship formula for the Spurs in terms of salary or playability. I can see White, Walker, and Murray supporting a future star/leader for the Spurs, but DeRozan just doesn't fit in that role.

[Sugus]

An this is what I mean... Lonnie just cant stay healthy. His knees cant handle his own quickness.

No injury report so far whatsoever, only a tweet from Lonnie saying he feels good (obviously inconclusive but far away from "can't stay healthy"). Does anyone even remember Steph Curry's ankle problems in the earlier stages of his career? Not every injury is a death sentence for players.

[Chinook]

The sample sizes on those line ups are so tiny as to make them nearly meaningless, but while DeRozan is part of the top line up, he's not in the #2 or #3 best. Derrick White is part of the #1 and #2 most successful line ups, which makes sense to me because I think he's better counterpart to Walker than DeRozan, who is a higher usage rate player in addition to being a defensive liability. Any way I look at it, DeRozan simply isn't part of a championship formula for the Spurs in terms of salary or playability. I can see White, Walker, and Murray supporting a future star/leader for the Spurs, but DeRozan just doesn't fit in that role.

It doesn't make sense to argue sample size here. No one was doing a statistical analysis. I've been arguing for DeMar to play PF since last season. The difference back then was the the Spurs' guard rotation was somehow even worse than it is now. Walker wasn't good enough to play the SF role, and Mills wasn't consistently good. DeRozan has a history of going into the playoffs. That's good enough. The team shouldn't make moves now based on a window that may open up in five or six years. The NBA is just too fleeting to play that type of long game, especially when you don't yet have a foundational player.

[tbdog]

I read a stat that DD clutch FT % was higher than his AVG last season. He already shoots high 80s. This season, it's under 50% in the clutch. Ouch.

[RC_Drunkford]

DeRozan at PF might work on offense, but opposing PFs are killing him in the post on the regular. I don't see how you get stops with that type of line up

[JuneJive]

It kinda messes up their O if they have to go through the post, right?

[spurraider21]

i dont see how somebody averaging 35 mpg with a 26% usage cannot be considered to be stunting the development of another player who could otherwise be using those minutes and possessions to gain experience and further his development on the court

that would be true even if derozan were lebron james and the best player in the world... at which point you would think his getting minutes/touches is so beneficial to the team that it trumps the development of a guy like walker. derozan isnt in that atmosphere, and the spurs arent winning enough to justify that mentality

[Chinook]

i dont see how somebody averaging 35 mpg with a 26% usage cannot be considered to be stunting the development of another player who could otherwise be using those minutes and possessions to gain experience and further his development on the court

that would be true even if derozan were lebron james and the best player in the world... at which point you would think his getting minutes/touches is so beneficial to the team that it trumps the development of a guy like walker. derozan isnt in that atmosphere, and the spurs arent winning enough to justify that mentality

Not everyone develops best by making them the first option and giving them a ton of minutes. In fact, I'd say that most players given that treatment become Bookers, Lavines and Wiggins more than they become Oladipos. I'd much rather Walker score less and learn to be an all-around player than him get 25 every night but "save himself" on the other end. Having guys learn role-player fundamentals first is very obviously the team's plan, and that doesn't happen if you shunt off everyone who is higher in the pecking order. Walker can develop just fine in an 18mpg role that grows as his game does. DeRozan is not impeding that, especially since they've been playing just fine together.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Lonnie should be playing 30-35 minutes a night. I don't really care whose minutes he takes along the way.

[koriwhat]

Lonnie should be playing 30-35 minutes a night. I don't really care whose minutes he takes along the way.

:tu

[duncan2k5]

Lonnie should be playing 30-35 minutes a night. I don't really care whose minutes he takes along the way.

I mostly agree with this...it shouldn't be at the expense of white or Murray...it should be at the expense of DDR, Forms, and Patty

[tholdren]

With Lonnie's seemingly to be in jury prone, would it truly be wise for the Spurs to trade Demar an let Lonnie take his position? Is Lonnie good enough to really take over for Demar? I say yes cuz he tries to play defense an he's waaaaay faster than Demar.

No bc not only is he injury prone, but he's not good

[Sugus]

No bc not only is he injury prone, but he's not good

What measures and analytical tools have you used to so succinctly decide that a 20yo player getting non-consistent minutes in a system not built for their strengths is decidedly "not good"? I'm curious.

[james evans]

What measures and analytical tools have you used to so succinctly decide that a 20yo player getting non-consistent minutes in a system not built for their strengths is decidedly "not good"? I'm curious.
i want to know too

[BillMc]

I, like everyone, would like to see more Lonnie. But I do wonder if his body can take more minutes. He seems a bit fragile.

[Atl Spur]

DDR is heartless/lazy as hell! He doesn’t have the alpha gene....... Westbrook should help his fellow brodie!

[Atl Spur]

I can live with a 20year old mistakes as long as the effort and progression is there.

[spurraider21]

Not everyone develops best by making them the first option and giving them a ton of minutes. In fact, I'd say that most players given that treatment become Bookers, Lavines and Wiggins more than they become Oladipos.
is that really something that can be backed up, though? feel like its just an arbitrary/convenient opinion. and its not like walker would receive poor coaching and just be neglected, allowed to completely do whatever he wanted.


I'd much rather Walker score less and learn to be an all-around player than him get 25 every night but "save himself" on the other end.
who said anything about walker taking a break on defense? i'm not saying he should be out there matching derozan's usage. but he could easily get some share of those touches. we still have dejounte, white, aldridge, gay that can initiate.


Having guys learn role-player fundamentals first is very obviously the team's plan, and that doesn't happen if you shunt off everyone who is higher in the pecking order. Walker can develop just fine in an 18mpg role that grows as his game does. DeRozan is not impeding that, especially since they've been playing just fine together.
if he's getting minutes next to derozan to stand in a corner then i dont think he's gaining anything. that's not where lonnie's potential lies.

[RC_Drunkford]

Lonnie should be playing 30-35 minutes a night. I don't really care whose minutes he takes along the way.