Most People Will Be Surprised to Know That...

[NK123]

... our best Line-up is:
Walker IV / Forbes / Mills / DeRozan / Poeltl

this Line-up has the best +/- this season, it’s one that block more shots and have more assists. How is this possible?

source: NBA.com

[sasaint]

... our best Line-up is:
Walker IV / Forbes / Mills / DeRozan / Poeltl

this Line-up has the best +/- this season, it’s one that block more shots and have more assists. How is this possible?

source: NBA.com

Very small sample and playing mostly against other team's second units.

[talkspurs]

It may be the most with Walker also. I think he has the highest +/- per min on the team. (did not look this up)

[dbestpro]

Also they may be surprised to know that Forbes has the worst fg% inside the arc of any rotation player.

[offset formation]

Also they may be surprised to know that Forbes has the worst fg% inside the arc of any rotation player.

But the best in the league off one dribble. His defense is shit though which makes him unplayable alongside DeRozan.

[Chinook]

DeRozan fits best as a PF nowadays. His reluctance to shoot isn't a big deal with three other smalls, and his lack of footspeed doesn't show up against small-ball PFs. Been harping on it for a while. There are lineups it won't work against, obviously. But Pop should go for it as much as possible. In that vein, it might make sense to shop Gay for perimeter help, preferably a multi-positional defender like Kent Bazemore. It makes a lot of sense to give him more time to figure it out. But he's looking like he could soon be the worst contract on the roster. They'll still have Lyles and Carroll for the times when DeRozan can't match up, and Rudy's probably still got enough value to bring back a difference-maker. The more he slows down, the more he and Aldridge will struggle playing together.

[Spurtacular]

Anybody that thinks our best line-up includes Forbes should immediately retire from SpursTalk.

[Coach X]

DeRozan fits best as a PF nowadays. His reluctance to shoot isn't a big deal with three other smalls, and his lack of footspeed doesn't show up against small-ball PFs. Been harping on it for a while. There are lineups it won't work against, obviously. But Pop should go for it as much as possible. In that vein, it might make sense to shop Gay for perimeter help, preferably a multi-positional defender like Kent Bazemore. It makes a lot of sense to give him more time to figure it out. But he's looking like he could soon be the worst contract on the roster. They'll still have Lyles and Carroll for the times when DeRozan can't match up, and Rudy's probably still got enough value to bring back a difference-maker. The more he slows down, the more he and Aldridge will struggle playing together.

Agree with Gay's assessment. He can't start in current NBA because of defense and he might not be that necessary in the second unit if Walker starts getting the usage he deserves. Bazemore would be an amazing fit for us (tbh I have no idea if SAS has a real option for a player like him in the winter market) in order to bring some athleticism, physicallity and DEFENSE to the forwards positions. I'd even give a chance to Carroll in the PF and why not Metu or Samanic if the team keeps losing?

I'm against DeRozan PF. He can be ok guarding perimeter players but he's terrible playing defense into the paint. Regardless how much his reluctance to shooting threes adversely affects the offense, the team figures out in that end of the floor. In the other side, every time he plays as 4, the defense collapses.

At this point I'd start with Aldridge-Lyles-DeRozan-Walker-Murray with Poetl-Gay/Carroll/Marco-Mills/Forbes/White from the bench. First unit defense should be decent and hopefully the could play faster with more Walker and Murray finishing in open court and DeRozan-Aldridge absorving just the 5on5 positional game. I think that unit could have a decent spacing as long as Lyles, Murray, Walker, Aldridge take their open 3pt shots without hesitation making around 35%. In the second unit, Poetl at C plus any combination of 2 forwards and 2 guards guarantees the positive contribution Spurs bench provides regularly.

[GAustex]

Broke down tin man Carroll can’t play no more.
Sniffers should justify wasting what $ Spurs spent on that broke down piece of shit.
Poop sure fucked that one up.

[UZER]

No, this is the best +/- lineup based on what Pop has allowed to be the on the floor for significant minutes.

And Forbes is the new Bonner +/- fools gold king.

[Chinook]

Agree with Gay's assessment. He can't start in current NBA because of defense and he might not be that necessary in the second unit if Walker starts getting the usage he deserves. Bazemore would be an amazing fit for us (tbh I have no idea if SAS has a real option for a player like him in the winter market) in order to bring some athleticism, physicallity and DEFENSE to the forwards positions. I'd even give a chance to Carroll in the PF and why not Metu or Samanic if the team keeps losing?

I'm against DeRozan PF. He can be ok guarding perimeter players but he's terrible playing defense into the paint. Regardless how much his reluctance to shooting threes adversely affects the offense, the team figures out in that end of the floor. In the other side, every time he plays as 4, the defense collapses.

At this point I'd start with Aldridge-Lyles-DeRozan-Walker-Murray with Poetl-Gay/Carroll/Marco-Mills/Forbes/White from the bench. First unit defense should be decent and hopefully the could play faster with more Walker and Murray finishing in open court and DeRozan-Aldridge absorving just the 5on5 positional game. I think that unit could have a decent spacing as long as Lyles, Murray, Walker, Aldridge take their open 3pt shots without hesitation making around 35%. In the second unit, Poetl at C plus any combination of 2 forwards and 2 guards guarantees the positive contribution Spurs bench provides regularly.

Most PFs don't play in the paint anymore, so DeMar playing the four probably won't require him to do much there. According to 82games.com, DeRozan has a winning match-up in his time at PF. I would take those numbers with a grain of salt given how that the site sometimes has weird methodology. But I think the eye-test even going back to last season shows that DeMar is a strong dude who does well against bigger players.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Most PFs don't play in the paint anymore, so DeMar playing the four probably won't require him to do much there. According to 82games.com, DeRozan has a winning match-up in his time at PF. I would take those numbers with a grain of salt given how that the site sometimes has weird methodology. But I think the eye-test even going back to last season shows that DeMar is a strong dude who does well against bigger players.


It looks to me like he's having a harder time getting space against quick players, or getting around them. I hate to make judgments from small samples, but if that's what I'm seeing, it doesn't bode well for his game. If he starts making a living on strength vs bigger players, it's likely going to limit his useful lifespan even more, don't you think?

That's got to muddy the waters even more over extending, trading, or letting him walk. It might be something for Pop to experiment with this season, but for me the discussion about next year has gotten a lot more important than trying to squeak into the first round this year.

[dbestpro]

I was talking about the Spurs and it is a fact.

[dbestpro]

You can put Gay right along side of him. Marco too. The Spurs have just too many old broke players.

[JeffDuncan]

I was talking about the Spurs and it is a fact.

About Forbes, you mean? You're right, of course.

[ZeusWillJudge]

... our best Line-up is:
Walker IV / Forbes / Mills / DeRozan / Poeltl

this Line-up has the best +/- this season, it’s one that block more shots and have more assists. How is this possible?

source: NBA.com


It took me a bit to even figure out what you were talking about. I still don't know where you got +/- from, since the NBA's lineup stat page shows NETRTG, not +/-. But that doesn't matter.

That lineup has played together exactly once - in the most recent game against Houston. They played together for exactly 14 minutes, in a 58 minute double-OT game. Mills was 2-8 (.250) that game, so you know it wasn't his offense. DeRozan was 9-25 (.360), but it happened that he made several of his shots while playing with that lineup.

Forbes shot 10-13 and 5-6 from 3P, which is arguably his best game ever.
Poeltl played 41 minutes, and had 15 RB and 5 blocks, which is arguably his best game ever.
Lonnie was a beast.

That's it. That lineup played together once, in a perfect storm against Houston.

[R. DeMurre]

according to 82games.com (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/derozde01.html):

Spurs Offense per 100 possessions with DeRozan ON court: 109.2
Spurs Offense per 100 possessions with DeRozan OFF court: 113.3

Spurs Defense per 100 possessions with DeRozan ON court: 117.0
Spurs defense per 100 possessions with DeRozan OFF court: 108.1

DeRozan is dead last on the team in +/- for the season. He's the only "star" or minutes leader I see in the entire NBA who has that distinction. LeBron, Giannis, Kawhi, Lillard, Doncic, Jimmy Butler, Tatum, Sabonis, Siakam, & Vucevic are all #1 in +/- on their teams. That's supposed to be the point of paying one guy more than anyone else on the team. Clear second tier guys like Harrison Barnes, Otto Porter, Andrew Wiggins, & Steven Adams are all in the top 5 for their respective teams. The question shouldn't be whether or not DeRozan is a star; it should be whether or not he's a starter at all.

https://www.foxsports.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs-team-stats?season=2019&category=MISC&time=0

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

according to 82games.com (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/derozde01.html):

Spurs Offense per 100 possessions with DeRozan ON court: 109.2
Spurs Offense per 100 possessions with DeRozan OFF court: 113.3

Spurs Defense per 100 possessions with DeRozan ON court: 117.0
Spurs defense per 100 possessions with DeRozan OFF court: 108.1

DeRozan is dead last on the team in +/- for the season. He's the only "star" or minutes leader I see in the entire NBA who has that distinction. LeBron, Giannis, Kawhi, Lillard, Doncic, Jimmy Butler, Tatum, Sabonis, Siakam, & Vucevic are all #1 in +/- on their teams. That's supposed to be the point of paying one guy more than anyone else on the team. Clear second tier guys like Harrison Barnes, Otto Porter, Andrew Wiggins, & Steven Adams are all in the top 5 for their respective teams. The question shouldn't be whether or not DeRozan is a star; it should be whether or not he's a starter at all.

https://www.foxsports.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs-team-stats?season=2019&category=MISC&time=0

Hopefully he's in his last year in a Spurs uniform, tbh. I'd love to see the Spurs trade him for some young assets.

[JeffDuncan]

Hopefully he's in his last year in a Spurs uniform, tbh. I'd love to see the Spurs trade him for some young assets.

DDR provides 20 points per game. Actually 21.4 this season so far. That's his only value, ppg. I'd favor almost any trade where the Spurs can dependably get 20 points back for him. But we do need the points.

[Spur4ever]

LMA
Walker
White
Murray
DDR

[TDomination]

LMA
Walker
White
Murray
DDR

Wow a lineup with your 5 best players. How strange!?

[R. DeMurre]

DDR provides 20 points per game. Actually 21.4 this season so far. That's his only value, ppg. I'd favor almost any trade where the Spurs can dependably get 20 points back for him. But we do need the points.

I don't think you need 20 ppg back. It's pretty clear that the offense is less effective when he's on the court and that other players are getting fewer shots because of his usage rate. Getting a player back that averaged 10-15 ppg with relative efficiency and three point ability would be an improvement and the remaining points would be more than made up for from other players. Plus fewer points would be given up on D.

[KobesAchilles]

Anyone with eyes saw that Rudy Gay was washed last year vs the Nuggets. The dude couldn’t even drive past Mason Plumlee. His speed and quickness is gone and I was hoping we would move on from him and not renew his contract

[DAF86]

... our best Line-up is:
Walker IV / Forbes / Mills / DeRozan / Poeltl

this Line-up has the best +/- this season, it’s one that block more shots and have more assists. How is this possible?

source: NBA.com

I think that's the lineup that won the game vs the Rockets, isn't it? That game alone is probably the reason for the stat.

Wouldn't pay much, if any, attention to the matter, tbh.