DDR and LMA

[DMC]

Can you imagine knowing that, the 1st year you were gone from the team where you were the franchise player, the team, the entire country, won their 1st championship ever? That's pretty harsh.

Worse? The team you went to will miss the playoffs for the 1st time in over 20 years. You were traded for a crippled man, yet somehow your movement ushered both of these in. Even if they weren't directly caused by you (let's face it, DDR is a problem), the self image has to be suffering quite a bit. Is DDR the kind of player who just puts his head down and plays through it? How much pining is Toronto doing for DDR now?

Look at the Blazers. Have they suffered without LMA? They seem to be about as good as they were with him, if not better. These two franchise level players left teams that improved after they left (Portland is ~) and came to a team that got worse when they arrived and has been spiraling downhill since.

These two guys don't seem to step up to the plate the way their salaries suggest they could if they wanted to. With Patty Mills and others having better nights on the regular than your "stars", it makes me wonder if there's a semi-tank effect happening. Even in shitty years, stars usually put up stats. These guys have offerings that are indistinguishable from the noise. Is that by design?

[Collins21]

Can you imagine knowing that, the 1st year you were gone from the team where you were the franchise player, the team, the entire country, won their 1st championship ever? That's pretty harsh.

Worse? The team you went to will miss the playoffs for the 1st time in over 20 years. You were traded for a crippled man, yet somehow your movement ushered both of these in. Even if they weren't directly caused by you (let's face it, DDR is a problem), the self image has to be suffering quite a bit. Is DDR the kind of player who just puts his head down and plays through it? How much pining is Toronto doing for DDR now?

Look at the Blazers. Have they suffered without LMA? They seem to be about as good as they were with him, if not better. These two franchise level players left teams that improved after they left (Portland is ~) and came to a team that got worse when they arrived and has been spiraling downhill since.

These two guys don't seem to step up to the plate the way their salaries suggest they could if they wanted to. With Patty Mills and others having better nights on the regular than your "stars", it makes me wonder if there's a semi-tank effect happening. Even in shitty years, stars usually put up stats. These guys have offerings that are indistinguishable from the noise. Is that by design?


Nah the Blazers are worse than the Spurs. They have to overrated checkers who people love to suck off but to me have accomplished way less than the guys we hate. The Blazers have been way worse than they were with LA. That 2014-2015 had a chance before the injuries to challenge the Warriors. These Blazers have been the 8th seed twice and the third seed twice in the past four years. That loss to the pelicans in 2018 tells you all you need to know about the blazers.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

yes op is skewed

[XDT76]

Can you imagine knowing that, the 1st year you were gone from the team where you were the franchise player, the team, the entire country, won their 1st championship ever? That's pretty harsh.

Worse? The team you went to will miss the playoffs for the 1st time in over 20 years. You were traded for a crippled man, yet somehow your movement ushered both of these in. Even if they weren't directly caused by you (let's face it, DDR is a problem), the self image has to be suffering quite a bit. Is DDR the kind of player who just puts his head down and plays through it? How much pining is Toronto doing for DDR now?

Look at the Blazers. Have they suffered without LMA? They seem to be about as good as they were with him, if not better. These two franchise level players left teams that improved after they left (Portland is ~) and came to a team that got worse when they arrived and has been spiraling downhill since.

These two guys don't seem to step up to the plate the way their salaries suggest they could if they wanted to. With Patty Mills and others having better nights on the regular than your "stars", it makes me wonder if there's a semi-tank effect happening. Even in shitty years, stars usually put up stats. These guys have offerings that are indistinguishable from the noise. Is that by design?

Although I agree with you that the 2 of them are currently overpaid and do not deserved the so call stars status, your narrative is too bias and ignore a lot of other stuff that happens. It's like saying Dwight Howard is the greatest reclaim project who propel the Lakers from lottery to top of the west.

[duncan2k5]

OP is 100 percent correct...

[TimDunkem]

They're soft, 2pt shooting chokers. Baynes cucked LMA as a pup in 2014 for God's sake. We should've known where this team would go if he ever ended up as the 1#: perennial pretender.

Adding that old Raptor's core (DD and Gay) should've signaled everything we needed to know about what would happen after that: bottom of the west/fringe playoff team.

Bad GM'ing has been bad. It isn't by design...This dumb FO thought it would work in a tough conference where the competition is trying to improve constantly. :lol

[Prime BEEF]

Nah the Blazers are worse than the Spurs. They have to overrated checkers who people love to suck off but to me have accomplished way less than the guys we hate. The Blazers have been way worse than they were with LA. That 2014-2015 had a chance before the injuries to challenge the Warriors. These Blazers have been the 8th seed twice and the third seed twice in the past four years. That loss to the pelicans in 2018 tells you all you need to know about the blazers.
the spurs haven’t had any major injuries but yet their record is still worse than the blazers who’ve been playing without Nurkic all season. The spurs are clearly worse than the blazers. I don’t like the blazers but don’t kid yourself...the blazers are the better team.

[vander]

and when they finally leave the Spurs, the Spurs will improve

[said7]

Ive never wanted a player off the team more than RJ. But tbh these two guys are getting close.
LMA was a great addition when we had KL without him not so much.

[exstatic]

Can you imagine knowing that, the 1st year you were gone from the team where you were the franchise player, the team, the entire country, won their 1st championship ever? That's pretty harsh.

Worse? The team you went to will miss the playoffs for the 1st time in over 20 years. You were traded for a crippled man, yet somehow your movement ushered both of these in. Even if they weren't directly caused by you (let's face it, DDR is a problem), the self image has to be suffering quite a bit. Is DDR the kind of player who just puts his head down and plays through it? How much pining is Toronto doing for DDR now?

Look at the Blazers. Have they suffered without LMA? They seem to be about as good as they were with him, if not better. These two franchise level players left teams that improved after they left (Portland is ~) and came to a team that got worse when they arrived and has been spiraling downhill since.

These two guys don't seem to step up to the plate the way their salaries suggest they could if they wanted to. With Patty Mills and others having better nights on the regular than your "stars", it makes me wonder if there's a semi-tank effect happening. Even in shitty years, stars usually put up stats. These guys have offerings that are indistinguishable from the noise. Is that by design?

The Trailblazers are 11-16, barely ahead of us.

2/10 for a troll session.

[Collins21]

Exactly just watching the eye test of both games this year the Spurs if playing their best players would smoke the TrailBlazers.

[sananspursfan21]

I’ve already lost my patience with LMA. I’ve been a Derozan defender since he arrived but unless his moping against the Rockets is just an overblown coincidence, the ice he’s skating on is thin and melting quickly :bang now if only I had a job at the FO...

[RC_Drunkford]

Can you imagine knowing that, the 1st year you were gone from the team where you were the franchise player, the team, the entire country, won their 1st championship ever? That's pretty harsh.

Worse? The team you went to will miss the playoffs for the 1st time in over 20 years. You were traded for a crippled man, yet somehow your movement ushered both of these in. Even if they weren't directly caused by you (let's face it, DDR is a problem), the self image has to be suffering quite a bit. Is DDR the kind of player who just puts his head down and plays through it? How much pining is Toronto doing for DDR now?

Look at the Blazers. Have they suffered without LMA? They seem to be about as good as they were with him, if not better. These two franchise level players left teams that improved after they left (Portland is ~) and came to a team that got worse when they arrived and has been spiraling downhill since.

These two guys don't seem to step up to the plate the way their salaries suggest they could if they wanted to. With Patty Mills and others having better nights on the regular than your "stars", it makes me wonder if there's a semi-tank effect happening. Even in shitty years, stars usually put up stats. These guys have offerings that are indistinguishable from the noise. Is that by design?

Portland has not been better without LaMarcus and the Spurs got better when he came here. Turned them to a 60-win team, it was nephew who messed things up. When DeRozan got here the Spurs won 1 more game with him than they did the season before with LaMarcus as the lone star. That should tell you everything about DeRozan's impact. He doesn't impact the game enough

[DMC]

Portland has not been better without LaMarcus and the Spurs got better when he came here. Turned them to a 60-win team, it was nephew who messed things up. When DeRozan got here the Spurs won 1 more game with him than they did the season before with LaMarcus as the lone star. That should tell you everything about DeRozan's impact. He doesn't impact the game enough

The stats support my statements. Portland hasn't missed the playoffs since LMA left. In fact, they made the WCF last season. The year before he left they never won a game in the 2nd round. Guess who else didn't win a game in the 2nd round? Toronto with DDR. Guess who loses in the opening round now?

[spurs1990]

Aldridge unfairly gets lumped in with Derozan (as Mills with Marco tbh).

Nobody and I mean nobody on here wanted Derozan two summers back but the team had to make due with a bad situation. Landing Aldridge in 2015 was nearly universally praised and the euphoria ultimately matched the results - 67 and 61 win seasons.

it was only when Leonard harpooned the team's direction that it all headed south.

2016 - 67 wins
2017 - 61 wins
2018 - Leonard quits; season a wash
2019 - Derozan era - he's the focal point and team barely matches washed season
2020 - Derozan still leading scorer; team is floundering

Put a real franchise anchor next to Aldridge and 2016/2017 are more likely than this Derozan era.

[JeffDuncan]

They're soft, 2pt shooting chokers. Baynes cucked LMA as a pup in 2014 for God's sake. ...

How come the stats don't show that? And which season are you talking about, 13 to 14, or 14 to 15? Either one, the stats are not kind to Baynesie going against LMA.

2013-14 regular season. Baynes pts / rebs against Portland. In November, 2/2. In January DNP. In Feb DNP. In March, 2/4. That's it. For that entire year, Baynes had a grand total of 4 pts and 6 rebs against Portland. You can't mean that.

The '14 playoffs, did you mean? It doesn't look good for Baynes there either. Three of those five games, he didn't even score. He did get 10/7 the first game. LMA had 32/14. Etc. You can't be talking about this.

2014 - 15 regular season. Baynes pts/rebs against Portland. December the 15th, 15/9. That's more like it, but LMA went 23/14 in that game. December 19th, 0/1. In that game, LMA went off for 32/16. January, 3/6. LMA went 24/8 that game. February 6/3. LMA was 11/13. That's it.

You've bought into a Spurstalk myth, or you're thinking of something else.

[DMC]

Aldridge unfairly gets lumped in with Derozan (as Mills with Marco tbh).

Nobody and I mean nobody on here wanted Derozan two summers back but the team had to make due with a bad situation. Landing Aldridge in 2015 was nearly universally praised and the euphoria ultimately matched the results - 67 and 61 win seasons.

it was only when Leonard harpooned the team's direction that it all headed south.

2016 - 67 wins
2017 - 61 wins
2018 - Leonard quits; season a wash
2019 - Derozan era - he's the focal point and team barely matches washed season
2020 - Derozan still leading scorer; team is floundering

Put a real franchise anchor next to Aldridge and 2016/2017 are more likely than this Derozan era.

"Season a wash" - LMA's out I suppose
"Derozan era" - convenient escape hatch for LMA again
"team is floundering" - LMA apologetics. You can always find a reason the Spurs are doing bad. You've given Kawhi and DDR as reasons, but forgiven LMA of any responsibility. While I agree DDR blows goats, LMA is doing the fluffing.

Aldridge is soft as fuck. DDR is worthless.

There's nothing unfair about it. The guy is a mid level "star" on a team that doesn't have anyone above him. LMA and he can take turns choking games away, but their gimmicky little shticks are side show material in today's NBA. DDR, 26m a year cannot hit a fucking 3, won't even shoot them. 52m a year for long 2 pt shooting.

[JeffDuncan]

Aldridge unfairly gets lumped in with Derozan ...

I agree. Like him or not, LMA is far more stable.



Put a real franchise anchor next to Aldridge and 2016/2017 are more likely than this Derozan era.

Well, a real franchise anchor would help, no matter who else is on the roster.

But it's almost eerie how similar some of LMA's stats are now to his first year with the Spurs. Quick examples.

Ppg then, 18 vs 18.8 now.

2pt percentage then, .521 vs .520 now.

Effective FG% then, .513 vs .519 now.

Total rebounds, 8.5 vs 7.3. The difference might be Lyles, who's proven to be a ball hawk on rebounds.

Assists, he's gained one, 1.5 vs 2.5.

Even some of LMA's advanced stats are still close, despite the team's bad record now, compared to then.

But yeah, the situation with LMA is trivial compared to the toxicity of DDR. It would be worth it even to take a financial hit if DDR could be moved in exchange for a true, modern small forward.

[CGD]

Pretty sure the Spurs won 67 games the first year LMA was with the team.

[CGD]

Aldridge unfairly gets lumped in with Derozan (as Mills with Marco tbh).

Nobody and I mean nobody on here wanted Derozan two summers back but the team had to make due with a bad situation. Landing Aldridge in 2015 was nearly universally praised and the euphoria ultimately matched the results - 67 and 61 win seasons.

it was only when Leonard harpooned the team's direction that it all headed south.

2016 - 67 wins
2017 - 61 wins
2018 - Leonard quits; season a wash
2019 - Derozan era - he's the focal point and team barely matches washed season
2020 - Derozan still leading scorer; team is floundering

Put a real franchise anchor next to Aldridge and 2016/2017 are more likely than this Derozan era.

Agree. Lots of “what if’s” had nephew not bitched out.

[Collins21]

How come the stats don't show that? And which season are you talking about, 13 to 14, or 14 to 15? Either one, the stats are not kind to Baynesie going against LMA.

2013-14 regular season. Baynes pts / rebs against Portland. In November, 2/2. In January DNP. In Feb DNP. In March, 2/4. That's it. For that entire year, Baynes had a grand total of 4 pts and 6 rebs against Portland. You can't mean that.

The '14 playoffs, did you mean? It doesn't look good for Baynes there either. Three of those five games, he didn't even score. He did get 10/7 the first game. LMA had 32/14. Etc. You can't be talking about this.

2014 - 15 regular season. Baynes pts/rebs against Portland. December the 15th, 15/9. That's more like it, but LMA went 23/14 in that game. December 19th, 0/1. In that game, LMA went off for 32/16. January, 3/6. LMA went 24/8 that game. February 6/3. LMA was 11/13. That's it.

You've bought into a Spurstalk myth, or you're thinking of something else.

Nah he just hates Aldridge. I remember that double overtime game in 2014 when Aldridge destroyed every big man on the sSpurs including Tim. LA may complain about touches but if you put someone else other than DeRozan around him he would drag this team to 50 wins.

[sasaint]

If you put a bona fide franchise player next to LMA he would bitch and moan and dog it more games than not just like he did when we had Number 2.

[Maddog]

Ive never wanted a player off the team more than RJ. But tbh these two guys are getting close.
LMA was a great addition when we had KL without him not so much.

However the plan was never to have LMA without Nephew. After Nephew quit the Spurs long term plans where in shambles- Remember they where in the conference finals the year giving the "greatest team ever" fits then he quits. They had salary cap where they could have reloaded when LMA and several other pieces aged out.

I think the DDR trade was a huge mistake in retrospect, however nephews trade value was zilch. Yeah, I know the internet says so and so was offered-

I also wonder if LMA is injured and or age related decline. While his #s are not horrendous he just doesn't look the same. Is it indifference? Maybe

[EasyMoney]

Replace demar with a wing defender.
Keep lamarcus at the #1 option unless you can find another big to hold down the fort with poeltl
Trap Marco in a closet and never show him a Spurs uniform again
Slash Bryn's minutes
Play Lonnie 20 minutes

Murray white
Walker mills/forbes
3 and D carroll
Gay lyles
Aldridge poeltl

And this team replicates the 1718 Spurs but with better offense

[EasyMoney]

However the plan was never to have LMA without Nephew. After Nephew quit the Spurs long term plans where in shambles- Remember they where in the conference finals the year giving the "greatest team ever" fits then he quits. They had salary cap where they could have reloaded when LMA and several other pieces aged out.

I think the DDR trade was a huge mistake in retrospect, however nephews trade value was zilch. Yeah, I know the internet says so and so was offered-

I also wonder if LMA is injured and or age related decline. While his #s are not horrendous he just doesn't look the same. Is it indifference? Maybe


A shame kawhi had to completely tank his trade value and played only 9 games. The only trade offers that were confirmed was Covington/saric and Miami pick, and Tobias Harris and the 2 lotto picks.

Oof

[DMC]

The Trailblazers are 11-16, barely ahead of us.

2/10 for a troll session.

I didn't say Portland is better than the Spurs right now (they are though). I said they didn't suffer when LMA left.

learn to read, son.

[Maddog]

I didn't say Portland is better than the Spurs right now (they are though). I said they didn't suffer when LMA left.

learn to read, son.

A little truth but it's not that straight forward
The last year LMA was in Portland CJ McCollum was a second year guard averaging 6.8 and they won 7 less games the year after LMA left. Yes they won a 1st round series against a team with an injured star...
Comparing one year to the next is always complicated by the fact players develop, players decline, injuries etc.

[C-Dub]

LMA does not make not 1 teammate better in any facet of the game. 98% of the time he will miss a wide open cutter to the basket for a easy layup or dunk. He has no signature move under the rim or driving to basket because he has NO HANDLES. Even if he had decent handles and could make it to the basket, he has NO TOUCH around the rim. He very, very rarely gets an opportunity for an And 1 because if he gets bumped just a little his touch is garbage. All he has is a pretty good midrange jumper that is a hard shot to consistently make especially during the playoffs when the opposing defense is more locked in. That 67 win team with the Spurs had a lot to do with our existing team not LMA making this huge impact. He seems to have very little passion to win. At his best he could of been a fringe number 2 option on a legit title contending team but at this point in his career he's no more than a fringe 3rd option on a title contender. Spurs should of not re-signed him. Spurs are better with players they draft and mold like the big 3. Over the years when they have brought in role players that played better with the Spurs it's because they were trying to keep a job and would listen and do whatever Pop wanted. LMA and DDR were star players on their previous team and already stuck in their ways. I really do not believe LMA, DDR, GAY or Beli would be getting the minutes their getting if not to justify their salaries. Not sure why Forbes is getting so much playing. By the way, there is more negatives that I could mention about LMA but I've already made this post to long not saying the Spurs should resign DDR either.

[TDMVPDPOY]

lma the scrub who still takes stupid turn around jumpshots against midgets, instead of lowpost

[DMC]

A little truth but it's not that straight forward
The last year LMA was in Portland CJ McCollum was a second year guard averaging 6.8 and they won 7 less games the year after LMA left. Yes they won a 1st round series against a team with an injured star...
Comparing one year to the next is always complicated by the fact players develop, players decline, injuries etc.

RS games mean nothing. I'd take a 50 win season with a WCF appearance over the 67 win, ousted in the 1st round year. You gauge success by how far you go in the post season, not by RS games. Well, unless you're Houston.

It sure wasn't hard to see the dropoff when Lebron left Cleveland, then when he left Miami, then Cleveland again. Every team he left sucked immediately, every team he landed on improved drastically. LMA's departure doesn't rise above statistical noise, even according to you.