Grades: Spurs vs. Clippers - Dec. 21, 2019

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-san-antonio-spurs-los-angeles-clippers-december-21-2019/

tl;dr: *sigh*

[MultiTroll]

What did Pop get the + for?
:lol :corn:

[objective]

Supposed floor-spacers Forbes and Belinelli being outshot percentage-wise by both White and Walker. If those guys had the same opportunities and roles, they'd get them up at the same attempts also.

[spursparker9]

No worries, we are used to it already

[r0drig0lac]

a result that shows the difference between the teams.

[RC_Drunkford]

I hope you all realize that the Spurs were playing hard and would've had a chance to win the game if Pop played the right rotations. They were down 11 at halftime only cause Belinelli played the entire 2nd quarter. If you simply start Walker or Carroll for Forbes and let the other one come off the bench instead of Beli the defense and the offense would improve. This is on the coach sabotaging his own team and players. DeRozan had 20 at halftime, Aldridge had 10. They were clearly ready to compete, but here comes Flopovich with his rotations

[tbdog]

I didn't watch it. So thanks for the grades. Timvp, can I get your honest opinion, no jokes, just a straight up intellectual opinion behind Pop's rotation, in particularly why is he not playing Walker or Carroll over Beli and Forbes? Edit* and not playing White and Murray together.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

It would be nice if Pop got kicked out of games a lot more often so we could see Becky get some experience as well.

[baseline bum]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-san-antonio-spurs-los-angeles-clippers-december-21-2019/

tl;dr: *sigh*

I know in the past you have said not to blow the team up until the playoffs aren't reachable, but even if they're only two games out of the playoffs, this is a bad team. A bad team that would only have a shot at the playoffs because the mid tier teams in the west all suck this year and making them with a sub-.500 record is reasonable. But what's the point of making the playoffs with a team that has no shot whatsoever of an pulling upset? Might as well just blow this up for draft position because giving minutes to DeRozan, Aldridge, Gay, Mills, Belinelli, etc isn't going to do anything to help the team's young talent improve and they don't look close to being a good team. It's finally time to see if they can land anything decent for the vets.

[NASpurs]

"Burn the tape."

Isn't that what people say when a good team has a bad game just so they could move on? More like burn the season.

[JeffDuncan]

What did Pop get the + for?
:lol :corn:

Five rings, it looks like. I don't know what else.

[Mugen]

Remember when OP was rock hard that his God decided to bench Lonnie after the 1st Clippers game because he saw something in him...

Sounds like the Chief Sniff Officer is coming to terms with the dementia-riddled fuck that's ruining the only relevant thing in Fat Antonio :lol

[K...]

Ok! new sniffer conspiracy. Pop, knowing he can't win, is trolling around the 8th seed to mount a surprise, first round playoff series 7 game loss, to what could be assumed to be the clippers. Of course he's not going to play his best players if he wants to pull off the close defeat. You do have to admit, other than championships, 7 game losses, many in the first round are really pop's legacy.

[ZeusWillJudge]

"Instead, he [Lonnie] basically got put on a ship as it was sinking, got punished for a couple of minor mistakes and then participated in garbage time in the fourth quarter."


There's no "basically" about it. The game was lost. The Clippers were just putting the last nails in the coffin. If your goal was to destroy a young player, and you decided to invent a method to do it? It would wind up looking exactly like this.

I watched Lonnie while he was in the game last night, looking over at Pop to see if he was pissed about something. Once they were lining up for a Clippers free throw, and Lonnie just kept looking back to the bench - I felt sorry for him. The only thing worse than being second-guessed after the game is second-guessing yourself during a game.
Nobody could play a sport under those conditions.

Whatever Pop used to be, he's ineffective now. He needs to step aside. As bad as that would be, him staying is fucking up the future even more.

[Harry Callahan]

"Instead, he [Lonnie] basically got put on a ship as it was sinking, got punished for a couple of minor mistakes and then participated in garbage time in the fourth quarter."


There's no "basically" about it. The game was lost. The Clippers were just putting the last nails in the coffin. If your goal was to destroy a young player, and you decided to invent a method to do it? It would wind up looking exactly like this.

I watched Lonnie while he was in the game last night, looking over at Pop to see if he was pissed about something. Once they were lining up for a Clippers free throw, and Lonnie just kept looking back to the bench - I felt sorry for him. The only thing worse than being second-guessed after the game is second-guessing yourself during a game.
Nobody could play a sport under those conditions.

Whatever Pop used to be, he's ineffective now. He needs to step aside. As bad as that would be, him staying is fucking up the future even more.


What point is Pop trying to prove by totally destroying this guys confidence. Lonnie Walker has a chance to have success with the Spurs well into the future - the current coach's window is much shorter. This is getting silly with Walker.

[Harry Callahan]

This team is lottery bound - the current roster has declining "stars", young guys with potential, and some older veterans who should be 15-20 MPG role players. They are NO threat to make the playoffs, let alone win a series.

[JeffDuncan]

Has anybody noticed that Beli, himself, seems to look puzzled at times, like, "why am I out here?" I don't mean confused about playing, I mean puzzled by why he's playing so much. It's almost looked that way to me a couple times, that Beli is also wondering.

[get_mills_out]

Remember when OP was rock hard that his God decided to bench Lonnie after the 1st Clippers game because he saw something in him...

Sounds like the Chief Sniff Officer is coming to terms with the dementia-riddled fuck that's ruining the only relevant thing in Fat Antonio :lol

[Spurs Homer]

A lot of people here hate on DDR & LMA - sometimes with good reason, but last nights game was a great example of how the coach is killing all hopes of those two guys staying interested.

In the first half the spurs were in the game DESPITE pop playing Forbes & Beli and NEVER allowing white and murray to share the court...

now - take DDR & LMA’s first half and add LONNIE starting for forbes and give murray/white some run and rest DDR and allow LMA to score while murray/white/lonnie pressure on D -

then after LMA gets his- bring back a fresh DDR to close out the half

then it might be a start...

instead overplay the fuck out of forbes/beli/mills

and this team is a disaster.

[BillMc]

Thanks for the grades as always OP.:bobo It is the best thing about this site.

I missed the game so it gives me good insight. Cheers. But I do have to ask how so many of them get average (C) or passing (D) grades after an abomination like this? Only Pop failed by this scale and barely apparently with an "F+" Move that up to a D- and even he "passes."
"

[tmtcsc]

Maybe the F+ from timvp is because deep down he believes Pop can't be this stupid & is purposely sabotaging the record in order to get a higher draft pick. If not, Pop's inexcusable stubbornness is at Hall of Fame level. Mills and Forbes are not & never were meant to play the amount of minutes they play in the NBA. It's actually not fair to them. They are undersized and have one redeeming skill - shooting. They are built to come in and pile on a lead or perhaps be sparkplugs to cutting a deficit. They shouldn't be starting or playing more than 15 to 20 minutes a game IMO.

[FkLA]

Let's call the Lonnie/Belli thing what it is at this point. It's a gross case of favoritism. Literally seconds prior to Lonnie entering, Marco gave up an and1 on a weak ass swipe down in transition. No reaction from Pop. No staredown, no scolding, certainly no benching. Lonnie comes in, commits a turnover and misses a shot and he's pulled within a minute. Gave him his chance and "it just didn't work out". If the situations are reversed, Lonnie is benched for a month after that swipe down and Belli plays the rest of the quarter after the TO+missed FG.

Lonnie needs to learn to play with his teammates. Yeah, well that Italian POS needs to learn how to not drag down his teammates. :rolleyes

[JuneJive]

CIA Pop

I smell a trade incoming.

[RC_Drunkford]

Thanks for the grades as always OP.:bobo It is the best thing about this site.

I missed the game so it gives me good insight. Cheers. But I do have to ask how so many of them get average (C) or passing (D) grades after an abomination like this? Only Pop failed by this scale and barely apparently with an "F+" Move that up to a D- and even he "passes."
"

Because they all played hard. DeRozan had 20 at halftime. Aldridge had 10. Even in the 3rd quarter the bench line up played their hearts out. The effort was there. The team was locked in from the start. It was Pop and his love for Belinelli that messed things up. The Clippers got Paul George and Kawhi out there, sometimes even with Lou Williams and here he is not playing Carrol, not playing Walker and never playing White and Murray together. How do you expect them to win that game with these kind of rotations?

If you want to watch the replay just watch the first half. At the end of the 2nd quarter the Spurs got down to double digits, but that's with Beli playing the entire quarter, turning the ball over 3 times, bricking midrange shots, etc., etc.

F+ is way to generous, should be F---------------

[Yogatti]

Kawhi Leonard: A+

[Joseph Kony]

cant even think of any logical or rational pop defense from a sniffer perspective. old man really is legit going senile, no other way to explain it. last night its like he wanted to give kawhi an easy W for all the booing in the last two games or something, how else can anyone explain these lineups. no sane coach who is trying to win games would do this

[Truth4sale$]

Another dissapointment. I still believe alot of this failure is more on the coaching staff. Players are who they are, but coaches have to put them in the position to succeed. Their is no coaching experience to challenge Popovich for his rotations. I believe Ettorre Missina would be in Popovichs ear telling him changes need to be made to save the season. Instead the Spurs continue to do the same thing, same players, same rotations, ...same results. Inconsistent play and a loss. If Spura are too slow, small and unathletic against a team. Start and play your young players and see what they can do. If Keldon Johnson could do HALF of what he is doing in the GLeague in a actual game, and the Spurs start Lonnie Walker over Forbes....the Spurs are at least a .500 team.

[cd98]

The day we got blown out by Kawhi was coming. This is all part of the healing process.

[spurs10]

Well Pop's grade hits home. Most of the time we'll lose with Forbes playing like this. He alone is going to cost us more losses when starting. Surely Tim and Becky have brought this up. Please let there be a trade coming.

Thanks for the grades. I watched some of the game and in the 3rd quarter, poured myself a drink and tried to forget what I had just seen.

[Sugus]

Hopefully a loss like this is sobering, and a clear picture that change needs to be made. Not a lot of hopes for this but we've got to make some trades, the sooner the better.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Supposed floor-spacers Forbes and Belinelli being outshot percentage-wise by both White and Walker. If those guys had the same opportunities and roles, they'd get them up at the same attempts also.

Walker yes, but people keep trying to perpetuate this myth that Derrick doesn't have opportunities. Derrick can shoot anytime he wants. He minimizes himself by being scared and timid.

[timvp]

I didn't watch it. So thanks for the grades. Timvp, can I get your honest opinion, no jokes, just a straight up intellectual opinion behind Pop's rotation, in particularly why is he not playing Walker or Carroll over Beli and Forbes? Edit* and not playing White and Murray together.

Ironically, despite the Pop-hates-threes meme, he's playing Beli and Forbes to get bulk three-point shooting on the floor. I assume he also views Beli's veteran knowhow as a plus.

I'm assuming White and Murray don't play due to lack of spacing. That theory was furthered by the fact that in order for Pop to comfortably play White next to Murray in the most recent Rockets game, he sat DeRozan.

[timvp]

I know in the past you have said not to blow the team up until the playoffs aren't reachable, but even if they're only two games out of the playoffs, this is a bad team. A bad team that would only have a shot at the playoffs because the mid tier teams in the west all suck this year and making them with a sub-.500 record is reasonable. But what's the point of making the playoffs with a team that has no shot whatsoever of an pulling upset? Might as well just blow this up for draft position because giving minutes to DeRozan, Aldridge, Gay, Mills, Belinelli, etc isn't going to do anything to help the team's young talent improve and they don't look close to being a good team. It's finally time to see if they can land anything decent for the vets.

It's not a bad argument but I'm not on board with the teardown yet. The Spurs have spent so much time and effort retaining their corporate knowledge and culture that a messy teardown has more risks than reward, IMO. Maybe if there were a couple superstar players in the draft but the top of the draft board looks really damn weak. The Spurs are like a hot week or two away from firmly being in the playoffs so they should just keep on going.

You do a midflight now, you could have Aldridge sulking and demanding a trade, Gay reverting back to his reputation and becoming aloof again and/or DeRozan at Jack in the Box contemplating his ultimate order. Becoming the Knicks without the big market isn't worth a move up in a draft that looks astonishingly devoid of top tier talent this year.

[timvp]

Remember when OP was rock hard that his God decided to bench Lonnie after the 1st Clippers game because he saw something in him...

Sounds like the Chief Sniff Officer is coming to terms with the dementia-riddled fuck that's ruining the only relevant thing in Fat Antonio :lol

Eh, it was a bad game. Tough team to coach, if we're being intellectually honest and not trolling. Pop needs to do better, though, obviously.

[get_mills_out]

Ironically, despite the Pop-hates-threes meme, he's playing Beli and Forbes to get bulk three-point shooting on the floor. I assume he also views Beli's veteran knowhow as a plus.

I'm assuming White and Murray don't play due to lack of spacing. That theory was furthered by the fact that in order for Pop to comfortably play White next to Murray in the most recent Rockets game, he sat DeRozan.


The strange obsession with spacing is one of the more confusing aspects of Pop's current rotation. Spacing is great when you have a lot of off ball movement and drive-and-kick ball handlers.

When your three best scorers get their points by grinding out tough twos in the midrange, I don't understand the idea of playing some of the worst defenders in the league to "space the floor". No intelligent team is going to double team Demar Derozan on midrange postups in 2019.

I would think, given that teams look like the Harlem Globetrotters when they play against us currently, shoring up the defense at the cost of a defender taking another step closer to Demar while he pounds the air out of the ball inside the 3pt line would be a simple decision.

[timvp]

I missed the game so it gives me good insight. Cheers. But I do have to ask how so many of them get average (C) or passing (D) grades after an abomination like this? Only Pop failed by this scale and barely apparently with an "F+" Move that up to a D- and even he "passes."
"

That's mostly due to the Clippers playing an A or even an A+ game and the Spurs playing a C game. If that happens, Clippers win a blowout. They're obviously a much better team. Add in some inefficient coaching, some hard to quantify malaise and you have a game that's over by the middle of the third quarter.

[RC_Drunkford]

That's mostly due to the Clippers playing an A or even an A+ game and the Spurs playing a C game. If that happens, Clippers win a blowout. They're obviously a much better team. Add in some inefficient coaching, some hard to quantify malaise and you have a game that's over by the middle of the third quarter.

still sniffing I see. Of course they played an A game if Belinelli and Forbes are out there at the same time. That's like shooting an open shot

[timvp]

still sniffing I see. Of course they played an A game if Belinelli and Forbes are out there at the same time. That's like shooting an open shot

Okay.

In a scenario where Pop coaches a perfect game but the players play at a C level and the Clippers play at an A level, what do you think the outcome would be?

[BackHome]

Pop trying to win a F -

Pop trying to Tank a A +

[baseline bum]

It's not a bad argument but I'm not on board with the teardown yet. The Spurs have spent so much time and effort retaining their corporate knowledge and culture that a messy teardown has more risks than reward, IMO. Maybe if there were a couple superstar players in the draft but the top of the draft board looks really damn weak. The Spurs are like a hot week or two away from firmly being in the playoffs so they should just keep on going.

You do a midflight now, you could have Aldridge sulking and demanding a trade, Gay reverting back to his reputation and becoming aloof again and/or DeRozan at Jack in the Box contemplating his ultimate order. Becoming the Knicks without the big market isn't worth a move up in a draft that looks astonishingly devoid of top tier talent this year.

They're a hot week from being a just below .500 playoff team? Meh, so what? That's not a team with much of a chance to be competitive in a first round playoff series. I just don't know what they're really risking by getting rid of a sharply declining Aldridge, DeRozan who they will have no business bringing back this summer, Gay who doesn't make much sense to have in his mid 30s, a Bellineli they have no business even playing, and Mills who while having a pretty good season is still in the way of their young talent. What's the upside of keeping a team together that's on pace to win 32 games even after a very easy schedule early on? I think the downside of keeping them together is huge because it's keeping Murray, White, and Walker off the floor.

[Capt Bringdown]

Other than play it out, Spurs have run out of options. LMA and DeRozan are empty-stats "stars" with little trading value, and the Spurs youth movement is decidedly not-ready-for-prime-time.
Probably not a franchise player in the draft, so the future looks mediocre at best.

[timvp]

They're a hot week from being a just below .500 playoff team? Meh, so what? That's not a team with much of a chance to be competitive in a first round playoff series. I just don't know what they're really risking by getting rid of a sharply declining Aldridge, DeRozan who they will have no business bringing back this summer, Gay who doesn't make much sense to have in his mid 30s, a Bellineli they have no business even playing, and Mills who while having a pretty good season is still in the way of their young talent. What's the upside of keeping a team together that's on pace to win 32 games even after a very easy schedule early on?The upside is the Spurs are able to extend the continuity and a winning culture (although the definition of "winning" is stretched in this scenario, admittedly) and avoid becoming the Knicks or the Suns or whichever perpetual bottom feeder you want to list.


I think the downside of keeping them together is huge because it's keeping Murray, White, and Walker off the floor.Even keeping this team together, there are more than enough minutes to go around. It shouldn't be difficult for Murray and White to play 28-30 MPG and Walker to playing ~25 MPG.

Plus, at this stage of their development, I don't even want them playing huge minutes. With Murray coming back from the torn ACL and White dealing with multiple plantar issues over the last two years, do you really want them playing 35-40+ minutes in close games? I don't. I don't want them playing 20 MPG either but somewhere between 28-30 is a sweet spot where they can develop but not risk injury. Walker, too, probably shouldn't be averaging 30+ MPG at this stage of his career given his two knee surgeries and his recent scare. Walker playing 25-ish MPG is his sweet spot, IMO.

[Sugus]

Plus, at this stage of their development, I don't even want them playing huge minutes. With Murray coming back from the torn ACL and White dealing with multiple plantar issues over the last two years, do you really want them playing 35-40+ minutes in close games? I don't. I don't want them playing 20 MPG either but somewhere between 28-30 is a sweet spot where they can develop but not risk injury. Walker, too, probably shouldn't be averaging 30+ MPG at this stage of his career given his two knee surgeries and his recent scare. Walker playing 25-ish MPG is his sweet spot, IMO.

Do you honestly think Pop can/will turn around to playing DJ/White/Lonnie together eventually without the team making any trades? There's honestly not a lot of ways to manage those minute avg without significant overlapping of the three, which Pop has seemed remarkably averse to. Additionally, which would be your preferred draft pick if the Spurs were tanking this season?

[BillMc]

That's mostly due to the Clippers playing an A or even an A+ game and the Spurs playing a C game. If that happens, Clippers win a blowout. They're obviously a much better team. Add in some inefficient coaching, some hard to quantify malaise and you have a game that's over by the middle of the third quarter.


okay, I see how the scale works. Thanks. :toast

[sasaint]

It's not a bad argument but I'm not on board with the teardown yet. The Spurs have spent so much time and effort retaining their corporate knowledge and culture that a messy teardown has more risks than reward, IMO. Maybe if there were a couple superstar players in the draft but the top of the draft board looks really damn weak. The Spurs are like a hot week or two away from firmly being in the playoffs so they should just keep on going.

You do a midflight now, you could have Aldridge sulking and demanding a trade, Gay reverting back to his reputation and becoming aloof again and/or DeRozan at Jack in the Box contemplating his ultimate order. Becoming the Knicks without the big market isn't worth a move up in a draft that looks astonishingly devoid of top tier talent this year.

So, is it your contention that the likes of LMA and Dumbmar actually UPHOLD Spurs’ culture?

[baseline bum]

The upside is the Spurs are able to extend the continuity and a winning culture (although the definition of "winning" is stretched in this scenario, admittedly) and avoid becoming the Knicks or the Suns or whichever perpetual bottom feeder you want to list.


I kind of fear the winning culture is dead anyways. Leonard was always going to leave to LA I guess (otherwise why walk from a perfect situation in Toronto after having left from a really good situation in San Antonio?), but I still can't forget Aldridge trying to get traded. And how much accountability can there be when Belinelli and Forbes are still getting lots of minutes in roles they're not earning on the floor?



Even keeping this team together, there are more than enough minutes to go around. It shouldn't be difficult for Murray and White to play 28-30 MPG and Walker to playing ~25 MPG.

Plus, at this stage of their development, I don't even want them playing huge minutes. With Murray coming back from the torn ACL and White dealing with multiple plantar issues over the last two years, do you really want them playing 35-40+ minutes in close games? I don't. I don't want them playing 20 MPG either but somewhere between 28-30 is a sweet spot where they can develop but not risk injury. Walker, too, probably shouldn't be averaging 30+ MPG at this stage of his career given his two knee surgeries and his recent scare. Walker playing 25-ish MPG is his sweet spot, IMO.

I can't argue with the minutes restrictions, but god it's frustrating not seeing the young guys play together enough.

[DPG21920]

I know in the past you have said not to blow the team up until the playoffs aren't reachable, but even if they're only two games out of the playoffs, this is a bad team. A bad team that would only have a shot at the playoffs because the mid tier teams in the west all suck this year and making them with a sub-.500 record is reasonable. But what's the point of making the playoffs with a team that has no shot whatsoever of an pulling upset? Might as well just blow this up for draft position because giving minutes to DeRozan, Aldridge, Gay, Mills, Belinelli, etc isn't going to do anything to help the team's young talent improve and they don't look close to being a good team. It's finally time to see if they can land anything decent for the vets.

Welcome to Truthville, population you

[TD 21]

It's not a bad argument but I'm not on board with the teardown yet. The Spurs have spent so much time and effort retaining their

corporate knowledge and culture that a messy teardown has more risks than reward, IMO. Maybe if there were a couple superstar players in the draft but the top of the draft board looks really damn weak. The Spurs are like a hot week or two away from firmly being in the playoffs so they should just keep on going.


You do a midflight now, you could have Aldridge sulking and demanding a trade, Gay reverting back to his reputation and becoming aloof again and/or DeRozan at Jack in the Box contemplating his ultimate order. Becoming the Knicks without the big market isn't worth a move up in a draft that looks astonishingly devoid of top tier talent this year.



You mean, attempting in vain to retain?

:lmao What risk? They're one of the worst teams in the league (and for what it's worth, every projection system has them getting even worse).

The top of the draft looks underwhelming to say the least, but at the same time, you never know and logic dictates that the higher you pick (or lower, depending on how you view it), the better the odds of striking gold.

Despite health, continuity and a middling sos, they've had maybe 2 comfortable-ish wins on the season. They've also pulled a bunch of games out of their ass, mostly on the strength of Mills being on some doin' it for the culture shit, where he dragged their rotting carcases into a fight they wanted no part of and prevailed. This is who they are; there's no run coming.



The upside is the Spurs are able to extend the continuity and a winning culture (although the definition of "winning" is stretched in this scenario, admittedly) and avoid becoming the Knicks or the Suns or whichever perpetual bottom feeder you want to list.

That's long gone. They need to accept it and move on instead of thinking they can force feed it down current and future iterations throats through osmosis.

Don't let the Knicks and Suns, with their incompetent ownership, scare you. Sure, becoming contenders again will require extreme luck, but just being decent - good can happen relatively quickly, especially if their youth is as good as they seem to think.

[slick'81]

You mean, attempting in vain to retain?

:lmao What risk? They're one of the worst teams in the league (and for what it's worth, every projection system has them getting even worse).

The top of the draft looks underwhelming to say the least, but at the same time, you never know and logic dictates that the higher you pick (or lower, depending on how you view it), the better the odds of striking gold.

Despite health, continuity and a middling sos, they've had maybe 2 comfortable-ish wins on the season. They've also pulled a bunch of games out of their ass, mostly on the strength of Mills being on some doin' it for the culture shit, where he dragged their rotting carcases into a fight they wanted no part of and prevailed. This is who they are; there's no run coming.




That's long gone. They need to accept it and move on instead of thinking they can force feed it down current and future iterations throats through osmosis.

Don't let the Knicks and Suns, with their incompetent ownership, scare you. Sure, becoming contenders again will require extreme luck, but just being decent - good can happen relatively quickly, especially if their youth is as good as they seem to think.


i thnk sniffers are scared of spurs relocating because of losing but how is that any different from them losing now?

[wildbill2u]

I'm not sure there is a way to fix this team in order to be a 'good' team, much less a contender. Take away a lot of minutes from LMA and DDR and you'll probably trigger a negative reaction from these proven vets. At any time when the youngsters are on the court, you can see they have physical ability but not a lot of BB IQ. They make too many mistakes or have limited skills needed to form a coherent unit.

If Pop is trying to pump up Marco or Forbes for trade bait, they aren't cooperating by playing their best with the minutes they are getting.

Even with the downside, I'd like to see more minutes for the young players just to see them compete and learn on the fly in real games.

[BackHome]

Like many have said this team is not built to do anything now or in the future no way in hell do we have a chance if we even make the playoffs. I am OK Tanking we need more young good players I just hope and pray that RC is able to trade LMA, Derozz, and maybe get a late first or early second and maybe a young player stashed in Europe.

Also agree if your able to trade Rudy, Beli, and Forbes for anything positive young player, draft pick ie Second Round.. you do it no questions asked.

[RC_Drunkford]

Okay.

In a scenario where Pop coaches a perfect game but the players play at a C level and the Clippers play at an A level, what do you think the outcome would be?

the Clippers wouldn't play at an A level if he plays the right defenders. That's my whole point

[spin8]

You mean, attempting in vain to retain?

:lmao What risk? They're one of the worst teams in the league (and for what it's worth, every projection system has them getting even worse).

The top of the draft looks underwhelming to say the least, but at the same time, you never know and logic dictates that the higher you pick (or lower, depending on how you view it), the better the odds of striking gold.

Despite health, continuity and a middling sos, they've had maybe 2 comfortable-ish wins on the season. They've also pulled a bunch of games out of their ass, mostly on the strength of Mills being on some doin' it for the culture shit, where he dragged their rotting carcases into a fight they wanted no part of and prevailed. This is who they are; there's no run coming.




That's long gone. They need to accept it and move on instead of thinking they can force feed it down current and future iterations throats through osmosis.

Don't let the Knicks and Suns, with their incompetent ownership, scare you. Sure, becoming contenders again will require extreme luck, but just being decent - good can happen relatively quickly, especially if their youth is as good as they seem to think.

Just re-quoting this for major truth.

[SpurPadre]

It's not a bad argument but I'm not on board with the teardown yet. The Spurs have spent so much time and effort retaining their corporate knowledge and culture that a messy teardown has more risks than reward, IMO. Maybe if there were a couple superstar players in the draft but the top of the draft board looks really damn weak. The Spurs are like a hot week or two away from firmly being in the playoffs so they should just keep on going.

You do a midflight now, you could have Aldridge sulking and demanding a trade, Gay reverting back to his reputation and becoming aloof again and/or DeRozan at Jack in the Box contemplating his ultimate order. Becoming the Knicks without the big market isn't worth a move up in a draft that looks astonishingly devoid of top tier talent this year.

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/

http://www.nbadraftroom.com/p/2020-nba-mock-draft.html?m=1

These guys above are much more optimistic about the 2020 draft class than you are, tbh.

[tbdog]

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/

http://www.nbadraftroom.com/p/2020-nba-mock-draft.html?m=1

These guys above are much more optimistic about the 2020 draft class than you are, tbh.


It's pretty fucking scary that the Warriors could get number 1 pick and then have Klay and Curry back.

[sasaint]

It's pretty fucking scary that the Warriors could get number 1 pick and then have Klay and Curry back.

Yep. It was Curry's ankle injury that killed a season and gave the Dubs the opportunity to sign him on the cheap that enabled their whole "dynasty."

[ZeusWillJudge]

Yep. It was Curry's ankle injury that killed a season and gave the Dubs the opportunity to sign him on the cheap that enabled their whole "dynasty."


True. The same way we got back...patty...mills. fuck :(

[SpurPadre]

It's pretty fucking scary that the Warriors could get number 1 pick and then have Klay and Curry back.

Fortunately, Curry and Klay won't be in their primes anymore but they can definitely be a force again next season.

[sasaint]

True. The same way we got back...patty...mills. fuck :(

Well, our FO is just light years ahead.

[tbdog]

Warriors also benefited from the sudden cap increase and the very obvious player tampering to get Durant.

[objective]

Walker yes, but people keep trying to perpetuate this myth that Derrick doesn't have opportunities. Derrick can shoot anytime he wants. He minimizes himself by being scared and timid.

that's coaching, related to his role. He put up plenty of threes in the g-league. Games of 8, 9, 10+ attempts. Much more than he's ever tried in the NBA. Hell, he had a game in the g-league on attempts that would have been the most or 2nd most all-time in a Spurs uniform if it was in the big-league.

[RC_Drunkford]

that's coaching, related to his role. He put up plenty of threes in the g-league. Games of 8, 9, 10+ attempts. Much more than he's ever tried in the NBA. Hell, he had a game in the g-league on attempts that would have been the most or 2nd most all-time in a Spurs uniform if it was in the big-league.

Another reason why Pop has to go

[offset formation]

Because they all played hard. DeRozan had 20 at halftime. Aldridge had 10. Even in the 3rd quarter the bench line up played their hearts out. The effort was there. The team was locked in from the start. It was Pop and his love for Belinelli that messed things up. The Clippers got Paul George and Kawhi out there, sometimes even with Lou Williams and here he is not playing Carrol, not playing Walker and never playing White and Murray together. How do you expect them to win that game with these kind of rotations?

If you want to watch the replay just watch the first half. At the end of the 2nd quarter the Spurs got down to double digits, but that's with Beli playing the entire quarter, turning the ball over 3 times, bricking midrange shots, etc., etc.

F+ is way to generous, should be F---------------

Y+

[Chomag]

Thanks for the grades. I haven't watched the last three games because I just can't stomach watching Pop's pets shit show line ups anymore.

[UZER]

Thanks for the grades. I haven't watched the last three games because I just can't stomach watching Pop's pets shit show line ups anymore.

I’m really close to being there. But at this point, it’s almost fun watching how ridiculous it’s gotten and the disbelief that Pop is that stubborn. I’ve paid my dues by continuing to watch this shit show and want to be there to see the breaking point. :lol

It’s like Pop is an addict in depression crying out for help by doing such ridiculous things, but everyone is so afraid of him that they won’t confront him to have an intervention when he’s secretly begging for it.

[DPG21920]

It's not a bad argument


:reading


but I'm not on board with the teardown yet. The Spurs have spent so much time and effort retaining their corporate knowledge and culture that a messy teardown has more risks than reward, IMO. Maybe if there were a couple superstar players in the draft but the top of the draft board looks really damn weak. The Spurs are like a hot week or two away from firmly being in the playoffs so they should just keep on going.

That was a mistake valuing culture over talent at this point. Culture matters when you have a legit team but what has that culture done for SA now? Has it lead to winning? No. Has it lead to really good leadership? No. Has it lead to a healthy environment even? Nope.

Whether or not they can make the playoffs, this team has no ceiling and no chance and even you admit the players aren’t worth investing in. If that it the case, how much messier can it get? Losing is messy. Having no leadership and sulking uncoachable stars borders on toxic and no good is coming from this. No one is happy, players or fans.


You do a midflight now, you could have Aldridge sulking and demanding a trade, Gay reverting back to his reputation and becoming aloof again and/or DeRozan at Jack in the Box contemplating his ultimate order. Becoming the Knicks without the big market isn't worth a move up in a draft that looks astonishingly devoid of top tier talent this year.

Who cares about Gay being aloof? He’s already terrible at basketball so if he sulks what are the Spurs going to lose more or something? LMA sulks already - what, is SA going to start being 8 games below .500 vs 6? Is LMA going to stop the already non-existent mentioning and try even less hard? Trade those guys and you don’t have to worry about it and you are already losing anyways. It can’t get any worse functionally; but you can maximize your chance to improve even if those odds are slim in the draft. Better than nothing.

This team doesn’t have top tier talent either, isn’t worth keeping together or investing in and nothing would get worse than it already is by trading the vets IMO.

[Mugen]

Eh, it was a bad game. Tough team to coach, if we're being intellectually honest and not trolling. Pop needs to do better, though, obviously.

You're taking some body blows in this thread so I won't go too hard, it being Christmas time and all.

But it's a tough team to coach if you're a rookie head coach. Not if you're the longest tenured coach in sports tbh

You said yourself that having two emo "stars" like Derozan/LMA is the NBA norm, not the exception. So all of a sudden that's a tough team to coach? :lol