Article: The Spurs Worst Front Office Decisions of the Decade

[cd021]

https://www.spurstalk.com/san-antonio-spurs-worst-front-office-moves-decade/

The Gist: Mostly from the past five seasons, we all know what number one is...

[cd021]

The Spurs Best Front Office Decisions of the Decade:

https://www.spurstalk.com/san-antonio-spurs-best-front-office-moves-decade/ (https://www.spurstalk.com/san-antonio-spurs-best-front-office-moves-decade/)

[SpurPadre]

Patty Mills' 50 mills not in the list?! Constantly bringing back Bonner not in the list?! Getting Ayres not in the list?! Getting Joffrey not in the list?! Come on, man...but thanks for the article, nonetheless and Merry Xmas, tbh.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

nah fuck kawhi. the only bad part of that trade was it shoulda been done sooner.

merry christmas to all except the leonards. ok even them but fuck kawhi

[cd021]

Patty Mills' 50 mills not in the list?! Constantly bringing back Bonner not in the list?! Getting Ayres not in the list?! Getting Joffrey not in the list?! Come on, man...but thanks for the article, nonetheless and Merry Xmas, tbh.

Mills and Joffrey are on the list

Mills is under the "2017 off-season" as was Joff, who I was fairly harsh on.

[cd021]

Ayers was considered but his signing alone didn't warrant inclusion tbh.

[slick'81]

Keep em coming cal:tu

[8FOR!3]

Didn't need you to ruin my Christmas morning, Cal, but great article lol. Luckily it seems like we're finally starting to move away from the consequences of the 2017 offseason. Patty's contract is down to two years and is less brutal right now considering how well he's playing.

[RC_Drunkford]

Didn't need you to ruin my Christmas morning, Cal, but great article lol. Luckily it seems like we're finally starting to move away from the consequences of the 2017 offseason. Patty's contract is down to two years and is less brutal right now considering how well he's playing.

yeah, we are suffering the consequences of the 2019 offseason now, cause this front office can't stop making dumb decisions. No Bertans, an overpaid Carroll who won't get any playing time but is signed for 3 years, an overpaid Rudy Gay and Demar DeRozan

[JeffDuncan]

Ayers was considered but his signing alone didn't warrant inclusion tbh.

We shouldn't be too rough on Ayres. He was good luck at least. The team won it all with him on the roster. He's now with a Japanese team on Okinawa, btw.

[Spurs fever]

Nice read. Thank you.

[cd021]

We shouldn't be too rough on Ayres. He was good luck at least. The team won it all with him on the roster. He's now with a Japanese team on Okinawa, btw.

He played too much his first season but was a deep bench guy his second season.

He did have the worst hands of any player I've ever watched, but also a weirdly good finisher and pretty good rebounder- go figure. Ultimately wasn't a disastrous signing, given the price.

[JeffDuncan]

He played too much his first season but was a deep bench guy his second season.

He did have the worst hands of any player I've ever watched, but also a weirdly good finisher and pretty good rebounder- go figure. Ultimately wasn't a disastrous signing, given the price.

Oh yeah, I remember about Ayres' hands. Sometimes the way it looked, you'd think he was trying to catch the ball with a tennis racket.

I checked the advanced stats, for TOV% (turnovers per 100 plays.) Using Aldridge for comparison. LMA has a TOV% this year so far of 8.0 That's good, LMA has sure hands. Ayres' TOV% his first season with the Spurs was 24.1. Ew. Those hands.

[Genovaswitness]

excellent article. fuck PATFO

[8FOR!3]

yeah, we are suffering the consequences of the 2019 offseason now, cause this front office can't stop making dumb decisions. No Bertans, an overpaid Carroll who won't get any playing time but is signed for 3 years, an overpaid Rudy Gay and Demar DeRozan

I don’t think you can blame the front office for trading Bertans, it was the right move for Morris and it’s well documented what happened. Idk who to blame for Carroll, but I think he replaces Belinelli at some point

[Keepin' it real]

Nothing we didn't already know. -- spurstalk

[cd021]

I don’t think you can blame the front office for trading Bertans, it was the right move for Morris and it’s well documented what happened. Idk who to blame for Carroll, but I think he replaces Belinelli at some point

My issue with the trade was less that they traded Bertans and more that they didn't utilize him properly when they had him.

For previous articles, I looked over lineup stats from last season and it was clear how impactful Bertans was to the offense. Some lineups with Bertans has outrageously net ratings, and that wasn't isolated to last season either.

Getting both Morris and Carroll would have boosted the defense for sure, and apparently Morris could've really helped on offense too. The idea was fine but the follow through was the issue.

Just getting Carroll and then not even playing him was what made it a bad decision.

[RC_Drunkford]

My issue with the trade was less that they traded Bertans and more that they didn't utilize him properly when they had him.

For previous articles, I looked over lineup stats from last season and it was clear how impactful Bertans was to the offense. Some lineups with Bertans has outrageously net ratings, and that wasn't isolated to last season either.

Getting both Morris and Carroll would have boosted the defense for sure, and apparently Morris could've really helped on offense too. The idea was fine but the follow through was the issue.

Just getting Carroll and then not even playing him was what made it a bad decision.

right on cue

:pop: "Ha, net rating. That's a hoax"

[cd021]

Oh yeah, I remember about Ayres' hands. Sometimes the way it looked, you'd think he was trying to catch the ball with a tennis racket.

I checked the advanced stats, for TOV% (turnovers per 100 plays.) Using Aldridge for comparison. LMA has a TOV% this year so far of 8.0 That's good, LMA has sure hands. Ayres' TOV% his first season with the Spurs was 24.1. Ew. Those hands.

Wow, that's pretty damn bad tbh. Doesn't surprise me about Aldridge thought, he's known for being a low turnover player.

Nate Duncan mentioned on his podcast, a while back, that LMA turned it over just nine times in 1100 post-up possessions during the 17-18 season.

[Spurs Homer]

Article based on false assumptions, writers misinformed bad opinions and god knows what else-

no thanks - will skip futher articles from this writer.

unless he does research and writes factual info

[ZeusWillJudge]

Article based on false assumptions, writers misinformed bad opinions and god knows what else-

no thanks - will skip futher articles from this writer.

unless he does research and writes factual info


That's your opinion, isn't it?

[ZeusWillJudge]

Just getting Carroll and then not even playing him was what made it a bad decision.


When they pick up a guy who basically gets zero minutes, it says to me that they didn't do their homework before signing him.
They could have held a roster spot. They could have held onto the money until the trade deadline.

[Fusternino]

Didn't mention re-signing Mills over CoJo?

[jjktkk]

Quite a few bad FO signings. But there's not a whole lot an organization can do when prime FAs want nothing to do with S.A.? Continuously drafting in the low first round hasn't helped either.

[jjktkk]

Didn't mention re-signing Mills over CoJo?

Considering COJO is on his 4th team, there really was no need to.

[Down Under]

I totally disagree with the Kawhi trade being the worst. The Spurs are a DeRozan for Gordon/Covington (whilst absorbing the final year of Dieng's contract)/Otto Porter trade away from being extremely competitive next season with their young guards & Poeltl anchoring the defense. The RJ extension was the worst move by miles, even though he looked good for the first few months of the season. He'd lost his athleticism & we ended up needing to give up a 1st to get off his contract. The Clippers knew they didn't have to trade for him as it was the worst kept secret he was going there anyway. Boston wasn't giving up any of their young core for him, as they were scared he would leave & Philly wasn't trading Fultz for him according to credible sources.

[cd021]

I totally disagree with the Kawhi trade being the worst. The Spurs are a DeRozan for Gordon/Covington (whilst absorbing the final year of Dieng's contract)/Otto Porter trade away from being extremely competitive next season with their young guards & Poeltl anchoring the defense. The RJ extension was the worst move by miles, even though he looked good for the first few months of the season. He'd lost his athleticism & we ended up needing to give up a 1st to get off his contract. The Clippers knew they didn't have to trade for him as it was the worst kept secret he was going there anyway. Boston wasn't giving up any of their young core for him, as they were scared he would leave & Philly wasn't trading Fultz for him according to credible sources.

The trade that the Spurs got for Kawhi would have been better had they not swapped out Gasol for Green.

Kawhi was on his way out anyway so getting to DeRozan, a first-round pick, and the young peice in Poeltl was a decent haul, not to mention saving money by moving Gasol.

Moving Green made the team, post trade, not make sense. Green and White would've allowed for DeRozan to hide much easier on D. Spurs biggest issue was defense last season. San Antonio essentially threw in a really good player along with a top five player. Without getting additional assets.

There is a chance that the trade will look better if DeRozan is moved for additional assets; i.e. Aaron Gordon and a first round pick. Poeltl can continue to get better and Kendon Johnson can become a good NBA player, but it just isn't a good deal now.

The Spurs asking price for the Lakers and 76ers were reportedly very high, they apparently asked for Ben Simmons. Boston, according to Zack Lowe offered 3 firsts (plus salary matching) for Kawhi. The Spurs didn't want to rebuild so they turned it down. The Clippers did offer Harris and 2 firsts but the draft provided an artificial deadline and the Spurs wanted to wait.

The Clippers were still competing with the Lakers, so I don't buy that they knew that they wouldn't have to trade for him. The Lakers could've said yes to the Spurs demands and then the Clippers would've had to hope that Kawhi didn't like playing for the Lakers.

[cd021]

When they pick up a guy who basically gets zero minutes, it says to me that they didn't do their homework before signing him.
They could have held a roster spot. They could have held onto the money until the trade deadline.

On paper, I thought he'd be a good fit but for whatever reason Pop chose to play Trey Lyle's and Belinelli over him.

At this point, if I were him I would be upset. I'm sure there was a discussion between his agent and the Spurs about his potiential role and being a bench warmer probably didn't come up.

[JeffDuncan]

One aspect of the Leonard - DDR trade that will never look good is the money. The Spurs went from paying Leonard $18.9 million to paying a lesser player $27.7 million.

People can argue, well, the Spurs could have paid Leonard the supermax if he stayed, and that would have been more, and yada yada. But the fact is, in what did happen, with no speculation about it, the Spurs agreed to pay roughly 50% more to a player who's worth roughly 50% less on the court. There's no way to spin that so it will ever look acceptable. That is bad business.

A sure way to become mired in failure is to be careless with how the available money is spent. There's a thread about taking the car keys away from grandpa, but the very first thing to take away from him is the credit card.

[TimDunkem]

On paper, I thought he'd be a good fit but for whatever reason Pop chose to play Trey Lyle's and Belinelli over him.

At this point, if I were him I would be upset. I'm sure there was a discussion between his agent and the Spurs about his potiential role and being a bench warmer probably didn't come up.

Do they work out the players they sign? Most of the time Carroll is out there he looks like he can barely move.

[cd021]

Do they work out the players they sign? Most of the time Carroll is out there he looks like he can barely move.

I think that's kinda how he normally moves, tbh

[TimDunkem]

I think that's kinda how he normally moves, tbh

Brilliant signing. PATFO did it again!

[duncan2150]

2017 was the worst... That brings kawhi trade and all the actual situation.

[TimDunkem]

2017 was the worst... That brings kawhi trade and all the actual situation.

They also chose not to seriously pursue Paul George. They got Kawhi Rudy Gay instead. :lol

[cd021]

2017 was the worst... That brings kawhi trade and all the actual situation.

I definitely don't think that it helped the Kawhi situation. Super teams were getting built and the Spurs were re-upping Gasol and Mills along with adding Paul and Joff who would turn out to be bad players

[DAF86]

Ever since the Tony Parker extension, the Spurs have been on a downward spiral of horrible FO decisions.

[Down Under]

The trade that the Spurs got for Kawhi would have been better had they not swapped out Gasol for Green.

Kawhi was on his way out anyway so getting to DeRozan, a first-round pick, and the young peice in Poeltl was a decent haul, not to mention saving money by moving Gasol.

Moving Green made the team, post trade, not make sense. Green and White would've allowed for DeRozan to hide much easier on D. Spurs biggest issue was defense last season. San Antonio essentially threw in a really good player along with a top five player. Without getting additional assets.

There is a chance that the trade will look better if DeRozan is moved for additional assets; i.e. Aaron Gordon and a first round pick. Poeltl can continue to get better and Kendon Johnson can become a good NBA player, but it just isn't a good deal now.

The Spurs asking price for the Lakers and 76ers were reportedly very high, they apparently asked for Ben Simmons. Boston, according to Zack Lowe offered 3 firsts (plus salary matching) for Kawhi. The Spurs didn't want to rebuild so they turned it down. The Clippers did offer Harris and 2 firsts but the draft provided an artificial deadline and the Spurs wanted to wait.

The Clippers were still competing with the Lakers, so I don't buy that they knew that they wouldn't have to trade for him. The Lakers could've said yes to the Spurs demands and then the Clippers would've had to hope that Kawhi didn't like playing for the Lakers.
I agree with everything. The only thing I would say in their defense regarding Green, is they would've had to pay him $15 million/season, starting this season, knowing they wouldn't have been in contention (not team with both DD & LMA as their 2 main guys). So assuming they're competitive again from next season with a good trade (like the one you suggested), DG will probably start tailing off a bit, given he'll be 33/34.

[Down Under]

Ever since the Tony Parker extension, the Spurs have been on a downward spiral of horrible FO decisions.
No one complained about that extension when it was done (apart from the Parker Vs Manu trolls). He had just finished top 5 in MVP voting the season before, then got a ton of injuries the next season.

[DAF86]

No one complained about that extension when it was done (apart from the Parker Vs Manu trolls). He had just finished top 5 in MVP voting the season before, then got a ton of injuries the next season.

I can't find the link to the thread but I recall a lot of people complained about that extension. I know I did.

[cd021]

No one complained about that extension when it was done (apart from the Parker Vs Manu trolls). He had just finished top 5 in MVP voting the season before, then got a ton of injuries the next season.


I can't find the link to the thread but I recall a lot of people complained about that extension. I know I did.

I actually considered including the second Parker extension but that was clearly a legacy contract, ultimately it didn't have a huge impact on the Spurs cap.

[cd021]

I agree with everything. The only thing I would say in their defense regarding Green, is they would've had to pay him $15 million/season, starting this season, knowing they wouldn't have been in contention (not team with both DD & LMA as their 2 main guys). So assuming they're competitive again from next season with a good trade (like the one you suggested), DG will probably start tailing off a bit, given he'll be 33/34.

It still made more sense to refuse to trade Green, people didn't know that he would shoot 45.6% on threes and be a key part of a title team. He probably wouldn't have commanded that much had he stayed with the Spurs and the Spurs probably would've let him walk but it was worth it to keep him for another year because of how well he would have fit.

The Spurs are still paying Gasol now, they should've insisted on including him as a condition of giving up Kawhi.

[Excessive Egotist]

The runners up for consideration: Livio Jean Charles, James Anderson, and Pau Gasol's extension.

[K...]

The runners up for consideration: Livio Jean Charles, James Anderson, and Pau Gasol's extension.

Two of your examples are players who suffered injuries. It's bad form to complain about that.

[Prime BEEF]

I can't find the link to the thread but I recall a lot of people complained about that extension. I know I did.
Yes, a lot of folks weren’t happy with that extension.

[Capt Bringdown]

The Spurs system came off the rails in 2017, the end of an era.

[tholdren]

Haven't you seen the new article, he wants to pay Brn money now.

Bryn is supposed to be Danny Greens Replacement, they play the same "position"

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/69/2f/21/692f211b22330b0707bb43bbd9519ef2.jpg

But he is 4 inches shorter, cant defend, and a worse 3 point shooter.

Oh yeah with all these deficiencies in comparison to Danny , he has a much higher usg%

But Poop the Basketball Flat Earther Thinks Advanced stats are "A Hoax".



http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Kevin+Durant+Bryn+Forbes+San+Antonio+Spurs+WwHuyzw cEFIl.jpg

And you think the nba is more about skill than entertainment...

[cd021]

The runners up for consideration: Livio Jean Charles, James Anderson, and Pau Gasol's extension.

Did include Gasol's re-signing.

Two of your examples are players who suffered injuries. It's bad form to complain about that.

Agreed. I was initially going to include them but it really wasn't on PATFO. LJC tore his ACL like a week after he was drafted and Anderson had a Jones fracture during his rookie season.

[RC_Drunkford]

I agree with everything. The only thing I would say in their defense regarding Green, is they would've had to pay him $15 million/season, starting this season, knowing they wouldn't have been in contention (not team with both DD & LMA as their 2 main guys). So assuming they're competitive again from next season with a good trade (like the one you suggested), DG will probably start tailing off a bit, given he'll be 33/34.

that ain't even the problem considering they are paying a 33-year old Rudy Gay 16 million per year until he's 35

[John B]

Not getting Doncic for Kawhi was the worst imo. It would’ve been a welcome good riddance to Kawhi and his uncle if Spurs ended with Doncic who is clearly a generational franchise player. And no way nephew rung with Sacramento. Scola was the 2nd, maybe cost Spurs a ring or two.

[TheGoatishere]

Not getting Doncic for Kawhi was the worst imo. It would’ve been a welcome good riddance to Kawhi and his uncle if Spurs ended with Doncic who is clearly a generational franchise player. And no way nephew rung with Sacramento. Scola was the 2nd, maybe cost Spurs a ring or two.

I thought the kings didn’t wanna give up their pick ?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Not getting Doncic for Kawhi was the worst imo. It would’ve been a welcome good riddance to Kawhi and his uncle if Spurs ended with Doncic who is clearly a generational franchise player. And no way nephew rung with Sacramento. Scola was the 2nd, maybe cost Spurs a ring or two.

What team was going to give up a top 4 pick for a one year rental of Kawhi?

[Dex]

The Spurs system came off the rails in 2017, the end of an era.

Fuck ZaZa.

[John B]

I thought the kings didn’t wanna give up their pick ?
I would’ve given Murray whatever to convince. I think Pop/RC were too stubborn and clouded their decision of what could’ve been a true replacement for Timmy and the new era of Spurs. Spurs could’ve pursued harder.

[Excessive Egotist]

Did include Gasol's re-signing.


Agreed. I was initially going to include them but it really wasn't on PATFO. LJC tore his ACL like a week after he was drafted and Anderson had a Jones fracture during his rookie season.

My mistake and you're correct. The injuries should be priced in. It's also the case that '13, '14, and '15 drafts weren't very deep and the Spurs couldn't have done much better from where they selected. Mulitinov actually looks like a good pick at his draft position, if not for the post-draft history.