Why'd the Spurs not sign Maurice Evans again?

[Marcus Bryant]

?

[Sense]

Cuz he's terrible.

[Marcus Bryant]

Wrong answer.

[TheWriter]

Because he turned down our offer.

[Sense]

No, it's actually a right answer.... that's why he's not a Spur... :blah :tu

[Marcus Bryant]

Because he turned down our offer.


Did you see that on Oprah too?

[TheWriter]

Did you see that on Oprah too?

Nope. But she faxed me an article where Maurice says he turned down the Spurs offer because he knew he'd get more playing time in Rock city.

:elephant

[TheWriter]

I guess your mildly subtle attempt to bash the Spurs ownership failed.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs made him an offer?

[timvp]

Because Holt didn't want to waste a whole roster spot on an up and coming player. The Spurs have 13 players on the roster and are one of only three teams that can say that.

Nice.

[TheWriter]

The Spurs made him an offer?

Yeah. He turned it down. Therefore your attempt to sour the Spurs front office failed.

Next. :spin

[Marcus Bryant]

Kinda hard to turn down an offer that wasn't made.

[xcoriate]

13 roster spots used is living proof the front office is cheap.

Next.

[TheWriter]

Because Holt didn't want to waste a whole roster spot on an up and coming player. The Spurs have 13 players on the roster and are one of only three teams that can say that.

Nice.

How many teams can say they have won three titles in the entire history of the NBA.

How about how many teams can say they have won three titles in the entire history of the NBA yet their fans will still cry foul when some bench warmer isn't signed.

That might be a harder find.

[Marcus Bryant]

Someone is confusing the basketball personnels' success with that of ownership.

[TheWriter]

Someone is confusing the basketball personnels' success with that of ownership.

Really, so ownership has nothing to do with the money the personnel then uses to sign the players?

I think they do since you created this post and LJ can't get over not signing Sharrod Ford.

[Marcus Bryant]

Writing checks doesn't mean that much in the NBA. A blind man does that.

[TheWriter]

13 roster spots used is living proof the front office is cheap.

Next.

Cheap? They went out and got Van Exel and Finley when they could have been "cheap" and just resigned Brown and Big Dog for much less all together. Hell, screw Oberto and just resign Masenburg for the vet min.

[TheWriter]

Writing checks doesn't mean that much in the NBA. A blind man does that.

So then why the fuss about Ford, Sanders, Evans?

[Marcus Bryant]

NVE and Finley cost a combined $3.5 mil.

[TheWriter]

NVE and Finley cost a combined $3.5 mil.

And Devin/Big Dog would have cost less.

[Marcus Bryant]

So then why the fuss about Ford, Sanders, Evans?


...Brown and Haslem.

[xcoriate]

probably not. vet min for big dog 1mil 2.5 for devin

3.5

[Marcus Bryant]

And Devin/Big Dog would have cost less.


Nope. Brown cost as much as Finley and the least amount GRobinson would've gotten is what NVE signed for.

[picnroll]

Because they were saving what was left of the MLE to try to sign Finley. So you're saying they should have signed Evans instead of going after Finley?

[Marcus Bryant]

Evans signed for at most the LLE, which the Spurs did not use in the offseason and, um, have yet to use.

[TheWriter]

Nope. Brown cost as much as Finley and the least amount GRobinson would've gotten is what NVE signed for.

So then why the hell are you crying?

Finley > Brown

Van X and Big Dog cancel each other out. Although Van X will see more minutes than Big Dog would have.

[TheWriter]

Evans signed for at most the LLE, which the Spurs did not use in the offseason and, um, have yet to use.

They didn't sign Van X with the MLE? I believe they did.

[xcoriate]

regardless why not carry two more minimum contracts on the chance they develop into something. We could have kept Ford and maybe someone else and given them a chance to develop every day in practice.

[TheWriter]

regardless why not carry two more minimum contracts on the chance they develop into something. We could have kept Ford and maybe someone else and given them a chance to develop every day in practice.

Because developing someone isn't a necessity at the moment, its a want by you guys.

And so what if the Spurs are trying to be financially tight with how they run the team. It hasn't affected the Spurs negatively in the Holt era.

Hell, Holt went out and gave Tony a huge deal right after giving a good sized deal to Manu.

[Marcus Bryant]

Problem is, they could've had Evans as well as Finley and NVE.

[picnroll]

link (http://www.detnews.com/2005/pistons/0508/25/D01-292997.htm)
Swingman Maurice Evans, a restricted free agent from the Sacramento Kings, on Wednesday signed a multiyear offer sheet with the Pistons. It is believed to be for $1.5 million a year.

Now wtf would the Spurs want to add to their collection of 6'4" SGs? Damn is there anybody you don't want the Spurs to sign?

[Marcus Bryant]

Because developing someone isn't a necessity at the moment, its a want by you guys.

And so what if the Spurs are trying to be financially tight with how they run the team. It hasn't affected the Spurs negatively in the Holt era.

Hell, Holt went out and gave Tony a huge deal right after giving a good sized deal to Manu.


Yeah, developing a talented young player isn't a good idea. Learn that from Oprah too?

Getting "financially tight" when your team has the opportunity to win a couple more championships doesn't seem like a good idea. It's not like signing any of these guys for IR would've broken the bank.

[xcoriate]

1. It took Pop and Duncan jumping up and down to get him that deal.
2. Developing talent is a nescessity, you want to become a dynasty or not?

We can't play Finley, Barry, Bowen, Horry and VanX until there 50.

[Marcus Bryant]

Pop had to chastise Holt into extending Parker. Pop even went to the media with it. That's unheard of.

[xcoriate]

I'm sorry which 6'4 SGs??

[TheWriter]

Yeah, developing a talented young player isn't a good idea. Learn that from Oprah too?

LOL, the Oprah jokes are very 2001. If I watched Oprah, I might feel offended.

Is developing young talent bad? No, that's not what I said poser.

I said its not a need. It's a need for a shitty team like the Clippers or Lakers or Magic.


Getting "financially tight" when your team has the opportunity to win a couple more championships doesn't seem like a good idea. It's not like signing any of these guys for IR would've broken the bank.

The fucking Spurs locked up their main core until 2010, and you still piss and moan.

[TheWriter]

1. It took Pop and Duncan jumping up and down to get him that deal.
2. Developing talent is a nescessity, you want to become a dynasty or not?

We can't play Finley, Barry, Bowen, Horry and VanX until there 50.

Developing a bunch of young talent is a need now?

Maybe in two seasons, but not now.

[Marcus Bryant]

link (http://www.detnews.com/2005/pistons/0508/25/D01-292997.htm)
Swingman Maurice Evans, a restricted free agent from the Sacramento Kings, on Wednesday signed a multiyear offer sheet with the Pistons. It is believed to be for $1.5 million a year.

Now wtf would the Spurs want to add to their collection of 6'4" SGs? Damn is there anybody you don't want the Spurs to sign?


Yeah, he signed their offer for $1.5 mil, the LLE or less.

Evans is 6'5" and 220.

[TheWriter]

The Spurs know what the fuck they're doing, they needed a better backup point guard. They got it.

They needed instant offense, they got it.

They've won three titles in 7 years doing what they do which is not listen to guys on an internet fan message board.

[Marcus Bryant]

Developing a bunch of young talent is a need now?


It's an opportunity. Why wait when you need to and you might not be able to find as good of talent?



Maybe in two seasons, but not now.

34, 34, & 32. That's the ages of 3 members of their swingman rotation.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs know what the fuck they're doing, they needed a better backup point guard. They got it.

They needed instant offense, they got it.


You're right. The basketball people in the organization know what they are doing. Why limit them?




They've won three titles in 7 years doing what they do which is not listen to guys on an internet fan message board.

Funny. One could say that about SA development...

[TheWriter]

It's an opportunity. Why wait when you need to and you might not be able to find as good of talent?



34, 34, & 32. That's the ages of 3 members of their swingman rotation.

I forgot, 34 and 32 year olds can't play basketball.

Jesus christ, Bowen is what, 34?

Ferry and Kerr were how old? What about Sean and Mario?

Give me a break on this age issue.

[Marcus Bryant]

I forgot, 34 and 32 year olds can't play basketball.

Jesus christ, Bowen is what, 34?


...and Barry turns 35 next month.



Ferry and Kerr were how old? What about Sean and Mario?

Give me a break on this age issue.

How long did Ferry, Kerr, Elie and Elliott last? Remember how easy it was to find a replacement for Elliott?

[TheWriter]

You're right. The basketball people in the organization know what they are doing. Why limit them?

Limit them from what? Making more jeserys for players who won't play? Limit them from not carrying enough players for your liking?


Funny. One could say that about SA development...

I don't see the correlation. But whatever jabs to can try and get at me.

:lol

[TheWriter]

...and Barry turns 35 next month.

And in better shape than most young players you have a hard on for.



How long did Ferry, Kerr, Elie and Elliott last?

Long enough to win rings.

[Marcus Bryant]

Limit them from what? Making more jeserys for players who won't play? Limit them from not carrying enough players for your liking?


Um, welcome to the subject. Pop and RC wanted Brown and/or Evans. Holt said no.



I don't see the correlation. But whatever jabs to can try and get at me.

:lol

It's fairly obvious. But recognizing that isn't your strong suit.

[ChumpDumper]

Why'd the Spurs not sign Maurice Evans again?Because they didn't want to pay $4.5 million for an IR player.

[Marcus Bryant]

And in better shape than most young players you have a hard on for.

Not really.





Long enough to win rings.

Then they were gone. Remember the '01 postseason?

[Marcus Bryant]

Because they didn't want to pay $4.5 million for an IR player.

More like $1.5 mil per. Anyways, they've waived more than $4.5 mil before.

[TheWriter]

Um, welcome to the subject. Pop and RC wanted Brown and/or Evans. Holt said no.

Really? You were a key figure in their discussions I see.



It's fairly obvious. But recognizing that isn't your strong suit.

So Pop can get Holt to sign Parker to a big ass contract extention but he can't get Holt to sign Brown or Evans?

Is that what you're tell me?

It seems Pop has less power than you thought.

Or maybe Pop just didn't think they were a need.

[ChumpDumper]

More like $1.5 mil per.For three years = $4.5 million, genius.

[Marcus Bryant]

Really? You were a key figure in their discussions I see.

If you were paying attention you would know.




So Pop can get Holt to sign Parker to a big ass contract extention but he can't get Holt to sign Brown or Evans?

Is that what you're tell me?

It seems Pop has less power than you thought.

Seems like Pop's being limited and he had to fight tooth and nail to get Holt to do the obvious and extend Parker before he got a max offer the following offseason.

[Marcus Bryant]

For three years = $4.5 million, genius.

$1.5 mil per is more germane, Einstein.

[TheWriter]

Seems like Pop's being limited and he had to fight tooth and nail to get Holt to do the obvious and extend Parker before he got a max offer the following offseason.

So Pop seeing how Parker was a need for the team in order to continue to repeat fought tooth and nail with Holt to get him an extention instead of try and get him as a FA.

Yet Pop didn't fight tooth and nail for Brown or Evans?

Hmmm.....

[TheWriter]

$1.5 mil per is more germane, Einstein.

4.5 is the total deal, which matters more to an owner.

[picnroll]

Yeah, he signed their offer for $1.5 mil, the LLE or less.

Evans is 6'5" and 220.
Listed at 6'5" which means 6'4"at most. Spurs need somebody 6'7" to 6'9" athletic, strong defense minded to guard the Melos, Artests, Lewises, not another 6'4" shooting guard. There are a dozen Maurice Evans up for grabs every year.

[Marcus Bryant]

So Pop seeing how Parker was a need for the team in order to continue to repeat fought tooth and nail with Holt to get him an extention instead of try and get him as a FA.

Yet Pop didn't fight tooth and nail for Brown or Evans?

Hmmm.....

Pop wanted at least one of them. When he couldn't knock some sense into Holt he tried to move the ageless Barry to keep Brown.

[ChumpDumper]

$1.5 mil per is more germane, Einstein.
$3 million per is more germane if you really want to be pissy about it.

Exactly when does Mo crack the rotation over the four other swingmen? After his deal is up?

Is he a true small forward?

[Marcus Bryant]

4.5 is the total deal, which matters more to an owner.


Not as much when the owner is fixated on the lux tax threshold.

[TheWriter]

Pop wanted at least one of them. When he couldn't knock some sense into Holt he tried to move the ageless Barry to keep Brown.

I see. So what else can you tell us oh great insider...

:lol :lol

I'm sure that's "exactly" how it all went down.

How can I think otherwise, you're the one sharing all this insider type info with us.

[Marcus Bryant]

$3 million is more germaine if you really want to be pissy about it.

Exactly when does Mo crack the rotation over the four other swingmen? After his deal is up?

Is he a true small forward?


How much longer is Barry going to be useful? Since when did $1.5 mil per really become that big of a deal for a franchise that was willing to take on $9 mil in one case and $6.7 mil in another for players unwanted otherwise?

[Marcus Bryant]

I see. So what else can you tell us oh great insider...

:lol :lol

I'm sure that's "exactly" how it all went down.

How can I think otherwise, you're the one sharing all this insider type info with us.


Uh that's what transpired this offseason. Not really inside info.

[TheWriter]

Not as much when the owner is fixated on the lux tax threshold.

But doesn't a bigger total deal mean a large per year salary? Yes, sometimes the contract is back heavy, but usually they're not. BUt eventually they will be.

[ChumpDumper]

How much longer is Barry going to be useful?Can you answer that?
Since when did $1.5 mil per really become that big of a deal for a franchise that was willing to take on $9 mil in one case and $6.7 mil in another for players unwanted otherwise?When it becomes $3 million per for a guy who will never see the floor.

[Marcus Bryant]

Actually, my bad. The Spurs took on $19 mil over 2 seasons for a player who they really didn't want.

[Marcus Bryant]

Can you answer that?

35 year old perimeter player who was oft paralyzed with fear in the postseason and who was beat out by DBrown for his spot in the rotation.




When it becomes $3 million per for a guy who will never see the floor.

Again, they've paid more to make guys go away.

[TheWriter]

The hella scary part is that Spurs fans will bitch about ownership when the team has won three titles in 7 years and is favored to repeat.

Damn, should have gone with the Paul Allen type ownership formula.

You know, the kind that pays Derek Anderson a bunch of money to play on their team for 6 years.

[Marcus Bryant]

The hella scary part is that Spurs fans will bitch about ownership when the team has won three titles in 7 years and is favored to repeat.

The scary thing is that you can't distinguish between the contribution made by the management vis a vis ownership.



Damn, should have gone with the Paul Allen type ownership formula.


Nah, just an owner who will listen to his basketball people.

[ChumpDumper]

35 year old perimeter player who was oft paralyzed with fear in the postseason and who was beat out by DBrown for his spot in the rotation.So your answer is last season? I'll let whott deal with that.
Again, they've paid more to make guys go away.Yeah, they signed those guys as free agents when they were over the tax threshold and had no intention of their playing ever.

[TheWriter]

The scary thing is that you can't distinguish between the contribution made by the management vis a vis ownership.

It's all connected dipshit.

It's one big circuit.


Nah, just an owner who will listen to his basketball people.

You mean internet geeks like you?

[Marcus Bryant]

Connected? Not really. As long as Holt Cat listened to management there wasn't a problem.

Geek? :lol Um, ok.

[TheWriter]

Kinda hard to turn down an offer that wasn't made.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24848

Yell Uncle.

[TheWriter]

Connected? Not really. As long as Holt Cat listened to management there wasn't a problem.


:lol :lol :lol

[TheWriter]

Your attempt to shit on the Spurs ownership has failed.

NeXt.

[Marcus Bryant]

Writing checks isn't that big of a deal when it comes to the actual personnel decisions that built those title teams. We're supposed to applaud Holt because he didn't fuck those up too?

[TheWriter]

Writing checks isn't that big of a deal when it comes to the actual personnel decisions that built those title teams. We're supposed to applaud Holt because he didn't fuck those up too?

Spurs made an offer. He turned it down. You failed. Try again.

[Marcus Bryant]

Your attempt to shit on the Spurs ownership has failed.

NeXt.


Not really. They also let Brown walk without compensation because of Holt. Pop even tried to move the great Barry to keep him within the limits set by Holt.

[Marcus Bryant]

Spurs made an offer. He turned it down. You failed. Try again.

Spurs couldn't make an offer to land him because of Holt. Try again.

[TheWriter]

Not really.

Read the title of this thread.

You wanna make a "Why didn't the Spurs resign Devin Brown?" thread, go ahead.

You were owned in this one.

[TheWriter]

Spurs couldn't make an offer to land him because of Holt. Try again.

Fucking Evans in his own words said he was given an offer.

:lol :lol

[Marcus Bryant]

I wasn't "owned" (I think that loses its significance once one passes the age of 15, but I digress) at all. The Spurs couldn't make a competitive offer for Evans' services. Same difference.

[TheWriter]

I wasn't "owned" (I think that loses its significance once one passes the age of 15, but I digress) at all. The Spurs couldn't make a competitive offer for Evans' services. Same difference.

Competitive or not competitve, they made an offer.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[TheWriter]

I'm done with this thread. You are a sad human being.

[Marcus Bryant]

Fucking Evans in his own words said he was given an offer.

:lol :lol


You'll note that the title of this thread was "Why'd the Spurs not sign Maurice Evans again?", not 'why didn't they make him an offer?'

[Marcus Bryant]

I'm done with this thread. You are a sad human being.


Funny, I'm not the depressed little bitch obsessing about new Burger Kings in San Antonio.

[Reggie Miller]

I think that I may have lost I.Q. points by reading this thread. Forget $4.5 million. $4.50 towards the cap would be a waste on Evans.

Developing mediocre players into respectable players becomes a low priority when you have legitimate starts willing to sign for MLE.

I simply can't believe anyone would complain about the Evans decision. It defies credulity. This isn't baseball; you can't just keep stockpiling players at the same position in AA and AAA.

[Marcus Bryant]

Yeah, because there will always be amnesty clause casualties like Finley to sign. The Spurs have signed guys for IR before to greater than minimum contracts to develop.

[ChumpDumper]

The Spurs have signed guys for IR before to greater than minimum contracts to develop.Fully guaranteed 3 year, $4.5 million contracts which double when taxed? Name any team that made that kind of a non-rookie signing.

[picnroll]

I simply can't believe anyone would complain about the Evans decision.
Believe.

[Brodels]

I think that I may have lost I.Q. points by reading this thread. Forget $4.5 million. $4.50 towards the cap would be a waste on Evans.

Developing mediocre players into respectable players becomes a low priority when you have legitimate starts willing to sign for MLE.

I simply can't believe anyone would complain about the Evans decision. It defies credulity. This isn't baseball; you can't just keep stockpiling players at the same position in AA and AAA.

That's the thing. At least we know that times are good. When the biggest thing you can find to complain about is the Spurs inability to offer an undersized, end-of-the-bench player who would have never seen court time a contract worth more than the minimum, things must be going pretty well.

Seriously. You're bitching about the Spurs not signing Maurice Evans.

Having those roster spots occupied is one thing. And I one could make a good argument that the Spurs should fill them. But not offering an undersized bottom-rung player a more-than-the-minimum contract? Find a hobby.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs committed more that to Ron Mercer using Ferry's non-guaranteed deal. Then they waived him.

Once Mohammed walks the Spurs won't have to worry about the lux tax again.

And, again, why pinch pennies at a time like this? If you have the opportunity to land the talent, do so. If not Evans, then Brown. Brown was good enough to be your primary swing backup over Barry last season. I mean, let's be happy because ownership is forcing management into giving up players they want who cost relatively little? That's not a good sign.

[Marcus Bryant]

That's the thing. At least we know that times are good. When the biggest thing you can find to complain about is the Spurs inability to offer an undersized, end-of-the-bench player who would have never seen court time a contract worth more than the minimum, things must be going pretty well.

Seriously. You're bitching about the Spurs not signing Maurice Evans.

and Brown and Haslem and everyone else they could've had if they had.

It's not a good thing to hamstring one of the best talent evaluation staffs in the NBA when they find a player they like, is it? Spin that.




Having those roster spots occupied is one thing. And I one could make a good argument that the Spurs should fill them. But not offering an undersized bottom-rung player a more-than-the-minimum contract? Find a hobby.

Read or scroll.

[ChumpDumper]

Name any team that made that kind of a non-rookie signing.

[Marcus Bryant]

Irrelevant. Is it that much different when the Spurs took on a player who they put on IR and then waived? Not really.

I'm not going to dig through the rosters tonight, but I'm sure Evans wouldn't have been the first.

[ChumpDumper]

Irrelevant.Sure it is relevant. Just find another signing like that for $4.5 million guaranteed. Should be simple for you.
Is it that much different when the Spurs took on a player who they put on IR and then waived? Not really.Except it costs $9 million.
I'm not going to dig through the rosters tonight, but I'm sure Evans wouldn't have been the first.When would be a convenient time for you?

[Marcus Bryant]

Sure it is. Just find another signing like that for $4.5 million guaranteed.

Doesn't matter when had they waived Ferry he would've cost them nothing.



Should be simple for you.Except it costs $9 million.

Not necessarily, as it's unlikely they will face a reduction in tax distributions next season.

They didn't use a guy they paid $6.7 mil to for one season and they let him ride IR.



When would be a convenient time for you?

When I feel like it. What are you going to do about that?

[ChumpDumper]

Doesn't matter when had they waived Ferry he would've cost them nothing.Do you not understand English? Do I need to post ir again?
Not necessarily, as it's unlikely they will face a reduction in tax distributions next season.Pretty sure that would put them over again -- to say nothing of any other potential signings.
They didn't use a guy they paid $6.7 mil to for one season and they let him ride IR.So you're saying they signed a guy for $6.7 million as a free agent with no other consideratioons whatsoever. Nice spin attempt, but unsuccessful.
When I feel like it. What are you going to do about that?Remind you about it when you "forget."

[Marcus Bryant]

They committed $6.7 mil to a player who they let ride IR and didn't even let finish the season. You can argue the Ghostian point of whether it matters as a trade or a free agent signing.

Look, it's the principle of the matter. It's this same line of thinking that led them to miss out on Haslem. Now, hey, that was only Udonis Haslem. When ownership starts limiting the basketball peeps, especially the group in the front office, that's a red flag.

[ChumpDumper]

They committed $6.7 mil to a player who they let ride IR and didn't even let finish the season. You can argue the Ghostian point of whether it was a trade or a free agent signing.It's a key point, especially when you try to exclude the real point of that trade.
Look, it's the principle of the matter. It's this same line of thinking that led them to miss out on Haslem. Now, hey, that was only Udonis Haslem. When ownership starts limiting the basketball peeps, especially the group in the front office, that's a red flag.I never saw a story saying Pop was interested in signing him. If there's a link, I'd appreciate it. For the record, I thought he'd be a good signing though he'd have completely duplicated Malik.

[Marcus Bryant]

It's a key point, especially when you try to exclude the real point of that trade.


They did it and then they let the target of the trade walk. $6.7 mil for what?



I never saw a story saying Pop was interested in signing him. If there's a link, I'd appreciate it. For the record, I thought he'd be a good signing though he'd have completely duplicated Malik.

Right. Just like Brown or Evans would've done the same this season. You have old guys (at the swing spots) on short term contracts. I don't think it's a good time for ownership to limit Buford and Presti's prospecting efforts. This is the crux of the matter.

[picnroll]

wtf is all this talk about having Haslem. Spurs had no shot at Haslem. He's from Miami. He played for the Heat SL team and was scheduled to play for the Spurs SL team. When the Heat told him they had an interest in him he wouldn't even show up to play for the Spurs SL team. Give up the Haslem fantasy.

[ChumpDumper]

They did it and then they let the target of the trade walk.If you can tell me that was their plan all along, you might have a point. And Ron did play half a season's worth of games.
Right. Just like Brown or Evans would've done the same this seasonBut not for the minimum -- for $3 or $5 million. And you'd be on the hook for Evans to the tune of $6 million at the very least whether he worked out or not.
You have old guys (at the swing spots) on short term contracts. I don't think it's a good time for ownership to limit Buford and Presti's prospecting efforts. This is the crux of the matter.Common sense is the crux of this matter. When you show me similar signings, you can show me how much sense they make.

[SequSpur]

Maurice Evans? Are you kidding me?

Why? Because he is IR Fodder. Big fucking deal.

Have a take, don't suck or you will get run.

[JamStone]

MarcusBryant,

I understand your point to a certain extent. Let's see if I can come from a different angle. The Spurs' four main reserves (NVE, Finley, Barry, Horry) all well into their mid 30s, not to mention starter Bruce Bowen. I think that you would have liked to see the Spurs have a young, athletic guy like Evans who could end up getting regular rotation minutes in the next couple of years if the vets start wearing down or even get injured (which is probably more likely at their ages).

I wouldn't go around gassing Mo Evans up. He's a role player. He's an undersized small forward. He may never be more than a role player.

But, I think MarcusBryant wants to make sure that the Spurs have readily available players to replenish your team when Finley isn't what the Spurs bargained for next year or when Bruce Bowen loses a step on defense sooner than later.

The Spurs have the luxury of adding small pieces right now because their team is so great at the moment. But, when almost half your payroll this year is locked up in just three players and that percentage will only get bigger as their contracts move on to the higher salaries, and the Spurs are already over the luxury tax threshhold for this year and the following two years at least, it will make it harder and harder to add pieces even with the MLE because the luxury tax has already been triggered. The Spurs haven't even figured out how they're going to handle Nazr.

Therefore, getting cheap, young free agents becomes imperative. Great starting caliber veterans are not always going to sign for the veteran's minimum or LLE like NVE and Finley did this summer. When Van Exel's knee gives out, that solid back-up point guard position becomes a problem.

It's really not a problem this season. And, likely not a problem next season. I think MarcusBryant is looking "big picture" with respect to squeezing out as many championships as the Spurs can with the Tim Duncan-Ginobili pair. As the surrounding role players get older and less effective, more of the burden goes back to Tim and Manu ... and they'll be getting older as well. I think in two years, the Spurs may really have some problems financially trying to field quality role players around Tim and Manu. Maybe they can get another cheap veteran starter for the MLE or less. But, it's hard to bank on that.

I'm not saying this will definitely happen. And, I think RC and Pop have done a masterful job to put your franchise in the position it is now. But, there are foreseeable problems as some of the Spurs get older and start to decline. Getting cheap substitutes won't be so easy.

Detroit will also struggle with a financial cap space decision on whether to re-sign Ben Wallace after this year, and if they do how much they'll be willing to spend. If Ben gets anywhere near $15 million a year, it may really hurt the Pistons cap flexibility over the next three or four years. That's part of the reason Joe Dumars stacked this year's bench with so much youth. Evans, Arroyo, Delfino, and Darko are all in their mid 20s or younger, along with three rookies. Joe hopes that several of them become reliable bench players and in 3-4 years be able to take larger minutes and keep our organization at a high competitive level in the league.

It's a unique approach. No one can really argue what the Spurs have done over the last seven years. I just think MarcusBryant is pointing out the potential problems on the horizon.

[ploto]

The main reason is the length of the contract-- not the amount.

[Reggie Miller]

Here's my point. This entire conversation is like two PhDs talking to a blind man about agronomy, when all he cares about is washing off the cow shit.

The second round of any draft produces a handful of Maurice Evans (Evanses?), every year. These fellas don't get a guaranteed contract. I'm no J.P Morgan, but I can count to zero vs. 4.5 mil, Jenny.

The abstract moral point of how to build the team for the long term never enters the picture. Evans isn't even the solution for how I'm going to clean my gutters next spring, much less holding down any sort of role on an elite NBA team.

[JamStone]

The second round of any draft produces a handful of Maurice Evans (Evanses?), every year. These fellas don't get a guaranteed contract. I'm no J.P Morgan, but I can count to zero vs. 4.5 mil, Jenny.



So quick to judge the potential of an undrafted or even second round swingman that takes a couple years to earn and prove he belongs in the NBA?

You mean like Michael Redd? How about that second round dime-a-dozen guy named Manu Ginobili? Marquis Daniels went undrafted, right? To a lesser extent Raja Bell and Trenton Hassell.

Marcus Bryant's point is that he believe Mo Evans is going to be a player in this league and he thought the Spurs had an opportunity to get him. Just because there are a bunch of athletic 6-5 swingmen in the second round or that go undrafted doesn't mean any of them will prove to pan out. Mo Evans proved he belonged in the league last year with Sacramento. And, where are first round picks Joe Forte, Kedrick Brown, Courtney Alexander, Quincy Lewis, Michael Dickerson, Olivier St-Jean, Felipe Lopez? It doesn't matter that there are a lot of 6-5 to 6-7 athletic swing players out there. If you find a player that has proven he belongs in the league, and you have an opportunity to acquire him for cheap, why not?

[T Park]

The second round of any draft produces a handful of Maurice Evans (Evanses?), every year

but but but, we have to make the owners broke and make them sell to someone out of town and let them move, cause damn't the owners arent allowed to think of finances!!!!!

[T Park]

Maurice Evans? Are you kidding me?

Why? Because he is IR Fodder. Big fucking deal

When Sequ makes sense, you KNOW, this subject is amazingly null.

[T Park]

When Van Exel's knee gives out, that solid back-up point guard position becomes a problem.


Thats why you carry a third point guard like the Spurs do...



And, I think RC and Pop have done a masterful job to put your franchise in the position it is now. But, there are foreseeable problems as some of the Spurs get older and start to decline

Yawn...

[JamStone]

but but but, we have to make the owners broke and make them sell to someone out of town and let them move, cause damn't the owners arent allowed to think of finances!!!!!


$1.5 million per year for 3 years. Even with the luxury tax, it's nothing.


Sean Marks and Romain Sato probably make about that combine this year.

[JamStone]

Yawn...


You have no concerns that all of your main reserves and one of your starters are in their mid 30s? Not even a little bit?

[T Park]

Sean Marks and Romain Sato probably make about that combine this year

Pretty tough for them to make it combined when one of them isn't even in the league.



$1.5 million per year for 3 years. Even with the luxury tax, it's nothing.


Easy for you to say.

[T Park]

You have no concerns that all of your main reserves and one of your starters are in their mid 30s? Not even a little bit?

Not with the Spurs scouting department, and the current overseas talent the Spurs hold rights to no, not at all.

[JamStone]

Not with the Spurs scouting department, and the current overseas talent the Spurs hold rights to no, not at all.


You drafted Javtokas four years ago now.

And, now International teams are adding more expensive buyout clauses to contracts so it makes it tougher for NBA drafted players to buy out their contracts if they turn out to be good players. Isn't that why Scola isn't with the Spurs yet?

Javtokas was 21 when the Spurs drafted him. He's 25 already.

A team cannot solely rely on stashed away second round talent overseas. How many Manu Ginobilis and Memo Okurs are there going to be? What happened to Josip Sesar, Peter Fehse, Federico Kammerichs, Alain Digbeau, Marko Milic?

They won't all turn out like Manu and Memo. In fact, most of them won't. If that's what you're going to rely on to help re-stock your team, it could be rough.

By the way, both Javtokas and Scola are big men. But, you already knew that. In a few short years, the Spurs will be very thin on the perimeter wing (Bowen, Barry, Finley). That's why Pop so desperately wanted to keep Devin Brown.

[JamStone]

Pretty tough for them to make it combined when one of them isn't even in the league.



Spurs are still paying Sato's contract for this year. Point being if the Spurs can throw away $600,000+ on a player they don't even have on the roster, why is $1.5 million too much to spend on a player they could actually use?

[T Park]

That's why Pop so desperately wanted to keep Devin Brown.

Link?

[T Park]

Javtokas was 21 when the Spurs drafted him. He's 25 already.

Hmmm, same age Ginobili was when he came in........

Hes practically a grandfather, why bother right?!?

[JamStone]

Link?


I read it in one of the posts in this thread by a Spurs fan.

[JamStone]

Hmmm, same age Ginobili was when he came in........

Hes practically a grandfather, why bother right?!?


Except Javtokas still isn't with the Spurs. That's my point. Who knows when he will be. Who knows if he'll even come to the Spurs ever. More and more international players are choosing NOT TO come to the NBA even when they are drafted or pursued.

And, the Spurs might not even have the rights to Javtokas anymore. They do expire at some point. And, like I said, he was drafted 4 years ago.

You can't completely rely on international second round draft picks. You have to develop talent within your roster as well.

What happens when San Antonio gets older and the veteran starters like the Finleys and Van Exels and Brent Barry's who are chasing rings at the end of their careers start to view Houston and Cleveland as better options to go for cheap? Bruce and Van Exel and Horry are retired, Nazr wasn't extended because he cost too much, Fabrico is just a poor man's Ervin Johnson, and those international second round picks are starting to become players overseas and have 10 million dollar buyouts they can't afford in order to come over to the NBA?

I'm not saying that WILL definitely happen. But, it could.

[T Park]

I'm not saying that WILL definitely happen. But, it could.

Wouldas, couldas, shouldas.

Typical loser mentality.


I read it in one of the posts in this thread by a Spurs fan

Oh thats reliable.



And, the Spurs might not even have the rights to Javtokas anymore

The Spurs do, and he was coming over this summer but decided not to, due to the labor uncertainty.

[ChumpDumper]

$1.5 million per year for 3 years. Even with the luxury tax, it's nothing.You've got to be kidding me.

Bitching about nonguaranteed minimum contracts is one thing -- a three-year, potentially $9 million investment is quite another.

I'll ask you what I asked MB: what free agent has been signed to a guaranteed 3-year, $4.5 million deal with the express understanding that he might never see the court for the duration of his contract?

Had the subject of this ridiculous thread been Matt Barnes, I wouldn't be so incredulous.

[Marcus Bryant]

Why didn't they do what it took to sign Matt Barnes then? He was another the front office had an interest in and he took the minimum for one year to play for the Knicks. Oh, but signing a guy to a 1 year contract for the minimum would've ruined this club's financial performance and position. Yeah.

I had no deep interest in seeing Maurice Evans as a Spur. But I do have an interest in seeing this team seize on the opportunities it has to make itself better and that includes using IR to its advantage. That also includes using the cap exceptions to add cheap, non-minimum players. The Spurs' player-personnel staff have done a great job at identifying young talent and the coaching staff has done a great job at turning some of that into useful role players. Are we really to believe that the Spurs haven't seen anyone out there they've liked? That's doubtful.

JamStone is dead on about the reason a contending team would want to try to develop some younger players on IR while competing for championships. I will only add that it's perplexing how Spurs fans act like this is some novel concept, something that has not been done before in SA. It's been done every season I can recall since about 1988 at least. With the ability of teams now to assign young players to the NDBL it would seem like a no brainer. Well, that is until you have to explain it to Spurs fans. It's ok to criticize ownership and still be a Spurs fan in good standing, if that's what some of you are worried about.

[Marcus Bryant]

MarcusBryant,

I understand your point to a certain extent. Let's see if I can come from a different angle. The Spurs' four main reserves (NVE, Finley, Barry, Horry) all well into their mid 30s, not to mention starter Bruce Bowen. I think that you would have liked to see the Spurs have a young, athletic guy like Evans who could end up getting regular rotation minutes in the next couple of years if the vets start wearing down or even get injured (which is probably more likely at their ages).

Well, that is a definite concern. I don't see the problem in signing young guys and keeping them on IR if need be to see if you can find someone who can contribute. It's not like it hasn't been done before (Malik Rose, Stephen Jackson, Devin Brown, etc...). Also, if you have a guy you know can play and he's willing to join your club today, why balk at doing so just because he might not be used so much this season? Spurs fans act like the team will always be able to pull a Finley out of the free agent market. That's a one time thing. You can't count on the amnesty clause every season to help you replenish your talent.

Since when did it become a good idea for the Spurs to stop looking for young talent? Since when is it a great idea to turn young talent away? Since when did a 1 year, minimum contract become such a huge burden that could imperil a team's financial future? Apparently a host of teams around the league think the new 'minor league' system is a good idea. Since when are the Spurs, a team lauded for its talent evaluation, not taking advantage of that? It's the Spurs and the Atlanta Hawks. Great company.

Also, given the structure of the NBA salary cap rules it is advantageous to have a young player gain tenure with your team, so that if need be you will have the Early Bird and Bird exceptions to use to retain him.

The Spurs gave up 2 1st rounders in the Rose trade, so they don't have the potential guaranteed obligations that those represented. They also don't have those picks to use to land young prospects. Yet another reason why not using IR this season because of lux tax paranoia is not a good idea.

You don't see the Pistons balking at using IR to their advantage. They also have international prospects playing overseas. They have a management team with a great track record. The rest of the league is not complacent. Now is no time to think that you are so good that you don't need to try to continue to improve. Pop doesn't strike me as someone who thinks like that. But this is not his call. This decision has come from ownership. Ownership seems to be determined not to cross that lux tax threshold, as if there is something inherently wrong in being subject to foregoing any lux tax distributions.

I could understand if the Spurs were operating under the old lux tax rules that would put them in jeopardy of losing a $15 mil distribution in a given season because they went over the threshold, but that's not the case today.

Devin Brown was good enough to supplant Brent Barry in the rotation as the 1st swingman off the bench. And the Spurs let him walk for nothing. Fine, you think he'd be too expensive or whatever, then there is Matt Barnes. Is the minimum for 1 year too much?

Now we're seeing guys who the Spurs identified being picked up by other clubs. Yeah, maybe Ford won't amount to anything, but you just gift wrapped a present for a rival. I don't believe Ford signed a 3 year, $4.5 mil deal.

[ploto]

Spurs are still paying Sato's contract for this year. Point being if the Spurs can throw away $600,000+ on a player they don't even have on the roster, why is $1.5 million too much to spend on a player they could actually use?

No, they're not.

[Marcus Bryant]

There you go. The Spurs' management has also found the optimal contract structure to use to sign these younger players so that if they do pan out, they won't have a problem retaining them while minimizing the potential liability if they don't.

[ploto]

Why didn't they do what it took to sign Matt Barnes then? He was another the front office had an interest in and he took the minimum for one year to play for the Knicks. Oh, but signing a guy to a 1 year contract for the minimum would've ruined this club's financial performance and position.

He's the one I wonder about, too. He spent quite some time with the Spurs in the off-season. The other guys all signed longer term deals, so I understood.

[Marcus Bryant]

He's the one I wonder about, too. He spent quite some time with the Spurs in the off-season. The other guys all signed longer term deals, so I understood.


Ford didn't. There is a pattern here.

[SpursWoman]

...and Barry turns 35 next month.



FWIW, Barry turns 34 next month. I guess if one inch makes that big of a difference, one year should too.

:fro

[leemajors]

free agents obviously want to come to the spurs. people want to play with duncan, ginobili and parker. i see the spurs having few problems in the next few years. if a sub-30 free agent small forward with talent gets wise and wants a solid chance at a ring, there's a good chance that he will come to SA to get it. finley is definitely more of a quick fix than anything, but seriously, if any of these guys were what the spurs really needed or wanted, don't you think pop and RC would have found a way to get it done?

[ChumpDumper]

Why didn't they do what it took to sign Matt Barnes then? He was another the front office had an interest in and he took the minimum for one year to play for the Knicks. Oh, but signing a guy to a 1 year contract for the minimum would've ruined this club's financial performance and position. Yeah.So you know all about the negotiations with Barnes? Link them, please.
I had no deep interest in seeing Maurice Evans as a SpurYou want the Spurs to spend $9 million on a player you have no deep interest in.

We have found the level of the room.

Bravo.

[Marcus Bryant]

Barnes signed for the min with the Knicks. Surely someone of your caliber could ascertain that.

I want the Spurs to be proactive and not worry about the lux tax to the point that it limits their ability to develop young talent. If you are too obtuse to understand that or too sad that whottt won't play with you anymore, then exit the room or wait for your period to end.

[Marcus Bryant]

free agents obviously want to come to the spurs. people want to play with duncan, ginobili and parker. i see the spurs having few problems in the next few years. if a sub-30 free agent small forward with talent gets wise and wants a solid chance at a ring, there's a good chance that he will come to SA to get it. finley is definitely more of a quick fix than anything, but seriously, if any of these guys were what the spurs really needed or wanted, don't you think pop and RC would have found a way to get it done?


Perhaps they are limited in what they can do by ownership?

[ChumpDumper]

Barnes signed for the min with the Knicks. Surely someone of your caliber could ascertain that. I know. I'm talking about the Spurs. Surely you could ascertain that.
I want the Spurs to be proactive and not worry about the lux tax to the point that it limits their ability to develop young talent.It's entirely possible that will still happen and the guys waived simply wern't up to snuff.
If you are too obtuse to understand that or too sad that whottt won't play with you anymore, then exit the room or wait for your period to end.Sorry you got burned by Buddy Holly, dude. Don't be sore.

[T Park]

It's entirely possible that will still happen and the guys waived simply wern't up to snuff.

You know that can't be it Chump.

The Spurs are too cheap. Come on.

[Kip Fanatic]

Perhaps they are limited in what they can do by ownership?

Can you write anything else that does not have to do with the Spurs ownership and them being cheap? Please. Get off of it.

How many teams have you owned or ran? Zero.

You don't know more than anyone in the Spurs front office and no one here believes you do.

[implacable44]

FWIW, Barry turns 34 next month. I guess if one inch makes that big of a difference, one year should too.

:fro


one inch ?

The Spurs will be fine right up until the day the TD retires. The entire structure of the team is built around Timmy D - everything else is complimentary. The Spurs are designed to win and they will continue to win and improve. They keep finding talent and they seem to be able to recruit just about anyone in the league to come play with the guys on the roster ( especially Tim). The day Tim retires is the day you can start to worry. - hopefully before then they will be able to pick up a big man via free agency and tim can play the D-rob role for 2 years and then retire passing the torch to the new young buck to carry the Spurs into DYNASTY

[Marcus Bryant]

I know. I'm talking about the Spurs. Surely you could ascertain that.It's entirely possible that will still happen and the guys waived simply wern't up to snuff.Sorry you got burned by Buddy Holly, dude. Don't be sore.


It's more likely that they have passed on players they liked because Holt is hell bent on getting under the threshold.

Burned by what? The Spurs didn't sign Evans. Did whottt make you cry again?

[Marcus Bryant]

one inch ?

The Spurs will be fine right up until the day the TD retires. The entire structure of the team is built around Timmy D - everything else is complimentary. The Spurs are designed to win and they will continue to win and improve. They keep finding talent and they seem to be able to recruit just about anyone in the league to come play with the guys on the roster ( especially Tim). The day Tim retires is the day you can start to worry. - hopefully before then they will be able to pick up a big man via free agency and tim can play the D-rob role for 2 years and then retire passing the torch to the new young buck to carry the Spurs into DYNASTY


Of course the Spurs are always able to recruit exactly who they need to San Antonio. Of course there will always be amnesty clause victims to sign.

You people are so fucking blind it's hysterical.

[ChumpDumper]

It's more likely that they have passed on players they liked because Holt is hell bent on getting under the threshold.Since you are so privy to every internal decision made by the Spur, attend every practice and listen in on every phone call, we have to take your word for it.

I'd say it's a possiblity, compounded by the fact that none of these guys had anything the Spurs would need for at least two seasons.

[ChumpDumper]

Burned by what?Denial is the first stage. You'll get through this in time.

[coopdogg3]

Of course the Spurs are always able to recruit exactly who they need to San Antonio. Of course there will always be amnesty clause victims to sign.

You people are so fucking blind it's hysterical.

I think it's a form of blindness to believe that every decision the Spurs make that you agree with is because of RC and Pop.

I think it's a form of blindness to believe that every decision the Spurs make that you disagree with is because of Holt.

/shrug. Guess we all must play with the cards the gods deal us.

coopdogg3

[Marcus Bryant]

Since you are so privy to every internal decision made by the Spur, attend every practice and listen in on every phone call, we have to take your word for it.


That hasn't stopped you from passing judgement before.




I'd say it's a possiblity, compounded by the fact that none of these guys had anything the Spurs would need for at least two seasons.

So we hope.

[Marcus Bryant]

Denial is the first stage. You'll get through this in time.

The Spurs didn't sign Evans. That was the subject of the thread.

[ChumpDumper]

The Spurs didn't sign Evans. That was the subject of the thread.Look man, you know what you said. Just get over it.

If you can convince me there aren't similar talents still available and we missed out on something really special other than two undersized athletes and another LJ3, I'll weep for the future of the franchise.

[coopdogg3]

The Spurs didn't sign Evans. That was the subject of the thread.

The subject of the thread was answered with the link where Evans admitted getting an offer from the Spurs, but he chose the Pistons due to his familiarity with Saunders. There hasn't been any other info posted concerning the size and length of the offer the Spurs made to Evans.

In other words, there is no base for the claim that Holt's penny-pinching ways (at least in this isolated scenario) cost the Spurs a young, talented swingman.

coopdogg3

[Marcus Bryant]

Explain Matt Barnes. Explain Devin Brown.

[Marcus Bryant]

Look man, you know what you said. Just get over it.

Yeah, I asked why the Spurs didn't sign Evans.




If you can convince me there aren't similar talents still available and we missed out on something really special other than two undersized athletes and another LJ3, I'll weep for the future of the franchise.

How about when Mohammed walks, they dump Radoslav for nothing and Oberto blows out a knee?

Holt was ready to lose Parker for nothing.

[ChumpDumper]

Explain Matt Barnes.I don't know that he was or wasn't made an offer. Do you?
Explain Devin Brown.Same as Evans, but for $5 million this season.

[Kip Fanatic]

Marcus, you give an opinion and thats cool. However, you turn into, "Marcus knows what he is talking about and no one else does. Marcus is right and the Spurs front office is wrong."

If you're looking for us to say, "Dang, Marcus is soooo right, maybe the Spurs are in trouble. I mean the Spurs have ONLY WON THREE SHPS in SEVEN YEARS. Let's write the Spurs and have them give Marcus full control of the Spurs management." It ain't going to happen.

If you were meant to be in charge of a sports franchise you'd be doing it right now, but you're not and I thank God for that.

[Marcus Bryant]

I don't know that he was or wasn't made an offer.


We do know his price was apparently the minimum for one season.




Same as Evans, but for $5 million this season.

Right. One season.

[Kip Fanatic]

Yeah, I asked why the Spurs didn't sign Evans.




How about when Mohammed walks, they dump Radoslav for nothing and Oberto blows out a knee?

Holt was ready to lose Parker for nothing.

I'd kill myself if I were one of your friends or associates. You are so worried about something you can't control its not even funny. You are worse than a woman. You are panicking over nothing.

Why do the Spurs have to answer to you as to why they didn't sign Evans, Barnes, Brown, and Joe Blow? They don't you freak. The Spurs didn't sign Brown because someone more proven like Finley decided to come to the Spurs. Its that simple.

[Marcus Bryant]

Marcus, you give an opinion and thats cool. However, you turn into, "Marcus knows what he is talking about and no one else does. Marcus is right and the Spurs front office is wrong."

Yes, I have argument and I make them. Welcome to the internets.




If you're looking for us to say, "Dang, Marcus is soooo right, maybe the Spurs are in trouble. I mean the Spurs have ONLY WON THREE SHPS in SEVEN YEARS. Let's write the Spurs and have them give Marcus full control of the Spurs management." It ain't going to happen.

Again, I have no problem with what the player-personnel folks and the coaching staff have done. That's not the issue here.




If you were meant to be in charge of a sports franchise you'd be doing it right now, but you're not and I thank God for that.

Funny. We can't criticize anything because we have not or are not in that role. I guess one cannot engage in political criticism because they are not an elected public official either.

[Marcus Bryant]

I'd kill myself if I were one of your friends or associates. You are so worried about something you can't control its not even funny. You are worse than a woman. You are panicking over nothing.

Why do the Spurs have to answer to you as to why they didn't sign Evans, Barnes, Brown, and Joe Blow? They don't you freak. The Spurs didn't sign Brown because someone more proven like Finley decided to come to the Spurs. Its that simple.

Somehow, you fail to grasp what is abundantly clear.

[wildbill2u]

Hasn't there been a lot of talk in other threads about all the 'talented' players the Spurs failed to sign for the end of the bench. Some of which, like Glenn Robinson, were also somewhat too over-the-hill agewise to fill the bill for young developmental players.

Isn't this a perrenial bitch about the owner being cheap with names of players being plugged in as 'being wanted by Pop and RC." or 'unwise basketball decisions.?"

We'd have a twenty five player roster of marginal players if all these guys had been signed.

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, I asked why the Spurs didn't sign Evans.No, you claimed the Spurs didn't even make an offer to him, and then got you ass handed to you by BH of all people.
We do know his price was apparently the minimum for one season.So you can't answer the question, Understood.
Right. One season.Again, show me a deal where a non-rookie free agent had $5 million committed to him to expressly not see the floor. Surely you've had time to catalog all the 3-yr/$4.5 million IR signings -- the $5 million ones should be fresh on your mind.

[Marcus Bryant]

Barnes took $700K in NYC. That's like $50K in Texas.

[coopdogg3]

/shrug Thought we discussed Devin Brown ad nauseum, but what the heck. I personally don't think he was worth $2.5 million to sit in a nice suit every night. I sure as heck don't think he was worth $5 million - due to luxury tax - to not see a minute of playing time. With Devin Brown there are legitimate injury issues. I didn't see the Utah game last night, but Brown's stats weren't that great. 16 mins. 4 points, 2 reb, 2 asst., 3 TO, and 2 PF is a pretty weak stat line. Again, I didn't see the game, and it's just the 1st game of the season - so I say it's best to go with a wait-and-see approach.

As for Matt Barnes. I got nothing. I don't really support 1-year minimum deals for future-developemental players on this particular team because I don't think it would benefit the Spurs at all. They would sit on the bench. Have a hard time developing due to limited playing time (maybe they could grow by playing in the NBDL??), and the Spurs would be very hard-pressed to bring them back next year.

If there are some future prospects willing to accept a 2-year minimum deal that would be better. Next year age may catch up with Barry, Finley, and Bowen - and NVE will be gone - so they could possibly get more playing time, and the Spurs would hold their Early Bird Rights giving them some leverage. If there were a player that could help the Spurs THIS year (maybe Glenn Robinson ??) then sure, sign them to a 1-year deal. Again just my opinion.

coopdogg3

[Kip Fanatic]

How many points did Devin Brown score? Played 16 minutes and scored four points.

What about Barnes? He played 24 minutes (by the way he started) and scored nine points.
What about Evans? Played 22 minutes and scored seven points.

What about our Michael Finley? Played 27 minutes (didn't start) and scored 16 points

[Marcus Bryant]

/shrug Thought we discussed Devin Brown ad nauseum, but what the heck. I personally don't think he was worth $2.5 million to sit in a nice suit every night. I sure as heck don't think he was worth $5 million - due to luxury tax - to not see a minute of playing time. With Devin Brown there are legitimate injury issues. I didn't see the Utah game last night, but Brown's stats weren't that great. 16 mins. 4 points, 2 reb, 2 asst., 3 TO, and 2 PF is a pretty weak stat line. Again, I didn't see the game, and it's just the 1st game of the season - so I say it's best to go with a wait-and-see approach.

Brown was good enough to pass over Barry to be the Spurs' primary backup swing. He was worth keeping around for another season. At least you'd have another option next summer. As it stands the Spurs have 4 swings. They've always had at least 5.



As for Matt Barnes. I got nothing. I don't really support 1-year minimum deals for future-developemental players on this particular team because I don't think it would benefit the Spurs at all. They would sit on the bench. Have a hard time developing due to limited playing time (maybe they could grow by playing in the NBDL??), and the Spurs would be very hard-pressed to bring them back next year.


There you go. Why aren't the Spurs taking advantage of that? Are we to believe the Spurs don't have anyone on their radar they'd like to put through that?



If there are some future prospects willing to accept a 2-year minimum deal that would be better. Next year age may catch up with Barry, Finley, and Bowen - and NVE will be gone - so they could possibly get more playing time, and the Spurs would hold their Early Bird Rights giving them some leverage. If there were a player that could help the Spurs THIS year (maybe Glenn Robinson ??) then sure, sign them to a 1-year deal. Again just my opinion.

coopdogg3

This is about finding guys who can help them down the road. They've taken young guys and groomed them into vital role players before. That is not unheard of. I'm not saying that whoever they brought in would turn into a rotation player, but again, the opportunity is there. Ownership is limiting that and I don't think that's a good thing.

[Marcus Bryant]

No, you claimed the Spurs didn't even make an offer to him, and then got you ass handed to you by BH of all people.

So at worst I didn't recall that the Spurs made an unacceptable offer to him.

If I could be infalliable like you, then all would be swell.



So you can't answer the question, Understood.


Well, if Evans is a good enough figure for you to quote, then the same would seem to hold for Barnes.



Again, show me a deal where a non-rookie free agent had $5 million committed to him to expressly not see the floor. Surely you've had time to catalog all the 3-yr/$4.5 million IR signings -- the $5 million ones should be fresh on your mind.

The Spurs have committed more to players they didn't use.

[Kip Fanatic]

What are you so worried about Marcus? The Spurs are young. The CORE, which is the most important thing is still young with the exception of Bruce Bowen. Other than that you don't have to worry.

I bet your woman wears the pants in your house if you have one.

[Marcus Bryant]

What are you so worried about Marcus? The Spurs are young. The CORE, which is the most important thing is still young with the exception of Bruce Bowen. Other than that you don't have to worry.

Look at the swing rotation. It's old. Oh, let's not think about next season. It'll always be easy to refresh that.



I bet your woman wears the pants in your house if you have one.

Nah, she worries about shit that hasn't happened or will never happen.

[GoSpurs21]

so why dont MB and Timvp raise the funds to buy the Spurs and then they can spend spend spend...oh yea cause they're not smart enough to do that but they sure are good at bitching about spending someone elses money

[Kip Fanatic]

Do you have control as to what will happen to you today? No? Tomorrow? Less of a chance. I know its good to be prepared for certain things. No doubt. However, you are taking to the extreme by saying Rasho will be traded for nothing, Nazr will walk, and Oberto is going to blow his knee.

How do you know all that will happen?

[Marcus Bryant]

so why dont MB and Timvp raise the funds to buy the Spurs and then they can spend spend spend...oh yea cause they're not smart enough to do that but they sure are good at bitching about spending someone elses money


Give us a couple years.

[Marcus Bryant]

Do you have control as to what will happen to you today? No? Tomorrow? Less of a chance. I know its good to be prepared for certain things. No doubt. However, you are taking to the extreme by saying Rasho will be traded for nothing, Nazr will walk, and Oberto is going to blow his knee.

How do you know all that will happen?

They tried to trade Radoslav for Tariq Abdul-Wahad and his partially guaranteed deal a couple months back.

[ChumpDumper]

Well, if Evans is a good enough figure for you to quote, then the same would seem to hold for Barnes.I said Barnes is a different situation -- you simply can't say there wasn't a camp invite, so give it a rest.
The Spurs have committed more to players they didn't use.So you admit you can't find a similar free agent signing.

Or do you need more time?

[Marcus Bryant]

I said Barnes is a different situation -- you simply can't say there wasn't a camp invite, so give it a rest.


Ha. Barnes was available for 1 year at the minimum.




So you admit you can't find a similar free agent signing.

Or do you need more time?

Haven't looked. You can do that if you like.

[coopdogg3]

Brown was good enough to pass over Barry to be the Spurs' primary backup swing. He was worth keeping around for another season. At least you'd have another option next summer. As it stands the Spurs have 4 swings. They've always had at least 5.

Brown WAS good enough to pass over an underachieving Barry. Then he got injured. You say he was worth keeping around. I say he was not. Don't know why you worry so much about having 5 swings. Heck Beno can put some time in at SG if we need it. I still say lets wait and see on Brown, his first game was uninspiring, no need to jump the gun.


There you go. Why aren't the Spurs taking advantage of that? Are we to believe the Spurs don't have anyone on their radar they'd like to put through that?

Again, my point is that developing a talent on a 1-year minimum deal won't really help the Spurs. Next year they will have no leverage in keeping him and have to hope he is willing to accept another 1-year min deal. Not an easy task.


This is about finding guys who can help them down the road. They've taken young guys and groomed them into vital role players before. That is not unheard of. I'm not saying that whoever they brought in would turn into a rotation player, but again, the opportunity is there. Ownership is limiting that and I don't think that's a good thing.

Yes, it's about finding guys who can help us in 2-3 years. Signing guys to 1-year minimum deals, and having no leverage to resign them next year IMO won't do that. And I will still like proof that Holt is the sole reason that Pop and RC haven't signed some scrub to a min deal. There is still plenty of time to sign some guy, I refuse to go Chicken Little because the Spurs haven't signed, yet, a 14th player.

coopdogg3

[ChumpDumper]

Ha. Barnes was available for 1 year at the minimum.What's this ha crap? Show me the Spurs didn't invite him to camp. That's all he ended up taking.
Haven't looked. You can do that if you like.It's not my job to support your argument. You act like this kind of signing is made all the time.

Prove it.

[Marcus Bryant]

What's this ha crap? Show me the Spurs didn't invite him to camp. That's all he ended up taking.


Right. He was available for that amount.




It's not my job to support your argument. You act like this kind of signing is made all the time.

Prove it.

Nah, you aren't the boss o' me.

[ChumpDumper]

Right. He was available for that amount.And?
Nah, you aren't the boss o' me.It's ok to admit you're wrong. It's not a huge stretch to think you could be wrong about this after being punked by BH mere pages ago.

[Marcus Bryant]

So he was available for nothing.

Nah, not wrong.

I know, you've never erred and have a fetish for nitpicking.

[Kip Fanatic]

Put MB on ignore.

[Marcus Bryant]

Put MB on ignore.


When in doubt, run away.

[Kip Fanatic]

When in doubt, run away.

The only one doubting is you. You doubt that the Spurs will be OK the next few years. Don't talk to me about doubt. You are the one who lives in it.

[Marcus Bryant]

Why are you still responding to me?

[Kip Fanatic]

How old are you?

[Marcus Bryant]

Go on, git.

[Kip Fanatic]

I feel bad for you man. No one really wants to talk to you.

[Marcus Bryant]

As this thread attests, no doubt.

[Kip Fanatic]

Thats all you get off to. You really don't have a point as to why you post. You just get excited about people responding to your crap. Its obvious. You keep posting crap to get people to respond because you're that lonely. That pathetic.

[Kori Ellis]

Why'd the Spurs not sign Maurice Evans again?

Because he's too short to play small forward and the Spurs don't need another 6'4-6'5 wing player.

End of thread.

[Marcus Bryant]

My, someone pissed in Kip's Cap'n Crunch this morning.

[Kip Fanatic]

I didn't eat cereal, but good try. I'm not mad. To let someone like you get me mad would be wrong of me to let happen. Like Kori said, end of thread.

You got your answer. As if you were owed one, but you got it anyway.

[spurster]

Because he's too short to play small forward and the Spurs don't need another 6'4-6'5 wing player.

End of thread.
Also, the Spurs leave open slots for more important needs. A mythical tall SF is always possible, maybe pick up Ebi after he's off waivers. This leaves one more slot open to fill depending on what position has the most injuries.

[Marcus Bryant]

Because he's too short to play small forward and the Spurs don't need another 6'4-6'5 wing player.



Why didn't they sign Barnes?

[Kori Ellis]

Why didn't they sign Barnes?

He worked out here for 3 days and apparently didn't show enough to be worth signing.

I am disappointed that the Spurs didn't keep one of Sanders or Ford for development purposes, but I truly believe the Spurs will sign at least one more player.

Sprewell anyone?:drunk

[Marcus Bryant]

Perhaps he showed them he wanted to play for the minimum, guaranteed.

You would think they would've kept one of those. I think Ford showed enough to warrant a closer look as well as a stay in Austin.

Sprewell? Well he'd probably want a guaranteed deal too.

[TDMVPDPOY]

He worked out here for 3 days and apparently didn't show enough to be worth signing.

I am disappointed that the Spurs didn't keep one of Sanders or Ford for development purposes, but I truly believe the Spurs will sign at least one more player.

Sprewell anyone?:drunk

Theres rumors that sprewell is goin to the heat....

[implacable44]

Of course the Spurs are always able to recruit exactly who they need to San Antonio. Of course there will always be amnesty clause victims to sign.

You people are so fucking blind it's hysterical.

Dude - the Spurs must be doing something right - look at the results - you can't argue with the results - well I gues YOU can - but look at the results. You probably would have been making the same type of comments in '99 and look at where we are now - an even better team - potential dynasty and you are whining about Evans and Barnes? WHY ? Evans isn't here because the Spurs don't need or want him. What did you expect them to do - lock him up on a 3 or 4 year deal to ride the bench behind the logjam of talent the Spurs already have ? Where would he get his minutes? Same with Barnes? -- there are no minutes for those guys - and players as better and much better than they are become available every year and are willing to take the exception or less for the ring. Once Timmy leaves then you can worry about recruiting those players here just for the ring - but for now - how can you argue with the results ? Cheap - maybe - definitely not Mark Cuban but EFFECTIVE ? without a doubt.

[Kori Ellis]

Theres rumors that sprewell is goin to the heat....

I know.

Sprewell was just (sort of) a joke because Spurs fans go crazy when you mention Spree in a Spurs uni.

[implacable44]

Spree? why would the Spurs want to get older and have a player with such poor character on their team -- not to mention Spree is just not that good anymore.

[Marcus Bryant]

You could've said the same thing about NVE. I'd actually put Spree in the same class. Guys who've had problems elsewhere because they hated playing on shitty teams.

[implacable44]

You could've said the same thing about NVE. I'd actually put Spree in the same class. Guys who've had problems elsewhere because they hated playing on shitty teams.

Spree has not always been on bad teams - neither has Nick. He was just about a perfect fit for the Mavs when he was here. Spree played on the playoff Knicks, Warriors and T-wolves - and everywhere he went he caused problems. point is - NVE is already here and serves a different purpose - Spree isn't and he is 1) old and 2) not that good 3) wants way too much money - what an idiot to reject the 3-year extension he got offered.

signing him would do nothing to validate your claims - you want the Spurs to get younger and better not older and cancerous.

[Marcus Bryant]

Right, both developed their reps as 'troublemakers' when they were on shitty teams.

I don't know, if Spree or Glenn Robinson or whoever was available for insurance, would that be a bad thing?

[implacable44]

Right, both developed their reps as 'troublemakers' when they were on shitty teams.

I don't know, if Spree or Glenn Robinson or whoever was available for insurance, would that be a bad thing?


what crappy team was spree on ? he developed his reputation on the warriors - they had a decent team when he was there - then he went to the knicks who also had a good team and he ruined that - then to the T-wolves and are you telling me you wouldnt take KG, Sam Cassell and Wally world among others ? Sam I am and Spree ruined that with their selfishness.

[Kori Ellis]

Damn. I don't really think Sprewell is coming here. I was just making a joke.

But I do think they'll sign another player.

[Marcus Bryant]

Spree choked his coach on a team that was going nowhere. That was after the Warriors pissed away virtually all of the talent that Schuler had found for them.

[implacable44]

Spree choked his coach on a team that was going nowhere. That was after the Warriors pissed away virtually all of the talent that Schuler had found for them.


we all know Spree isn't coming here - I think MB is just pissed because his Saints are terrible and they aint going back to Baton Rouge - or so says the owner. - anywho - Spree is selfish overrated player. that is beside the point of your thread though - as previously stated - he does not fulfill any needs we have nor does he answer your concerns.

I repeat that I am amazed that you can argue with the results of the decisions the Spurs have made in the past 6 years?

[Marcus Bryant]

Yeah and I'm pissed that my Hornets are stuck in the middle of a dust bowl.

[implacable44]

oklahoma ? you should be more upset that they traded away an all-star center for a dunker.

[Marcus Bryant]

Oh yeah, that was the worst. You look out for my Hornets, they may not have much but they can sting...

[implacable44]

well at least they got the new and improved baron davis.

[coopdogg3]

And the Hornets can be like Isiah - they make other teams better. You can take pride in how well Milwaukee does this year. You always have that.

coopdogg3

[FreshPrince22]

... they tried, he decided to go to the Pistons instead. And I'm glad, this guy's been incredible. Fantastic man-to-man defense, insane leaper, and he has been lights out from three point range @ 64% (14 of 22 from preseason to opening day). He is going to be a huge contributer for us.
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