Forwards in 2020 draft and free agency.

[Fusternino]

Absolutely nothing if we don't get a top 10 pick or try to bring back Bertans or JaMychal Green. Harrell probably wants to get paid.

What, we're just gonna use Bird Rights on Marco and Forbes?

[spurspl]

this draft class is shit except wiseman, tank for him or a bust. Spurs missed chance to rebuild via drafting twice in a row. Now it will be harder to build a contender team. It will take much more time and effort.

[EasyMoney]

this draft class is shit except wiseman, tank for him or a bust. Spurs missed chance to rebuild via drafting twice in a row. Now it will be harder to build a contender team. It will take much more time and effort.


It's easy to say this in retrospect. But it would have been cool seeing Murray and Shai gilgeous backcourt

[ZeusWillJudge]

It's a shit FA year. All the more reason why the Spurs should be developing their own young players, and getting a good draft pick this next year.

[spurspl]

It's easy to say this in retrospect. But it would have been cool seeing Murray and Shai gilgeous backcourt

ive been saying this since kawhis said he wants to be traded...

[gambit1990]

speaking of SGA, i would trade any two spurs for him.

[RC_Drunkford]

all of them were free agents this offseason, ain't nothing left for the next one. Just gotta hope we change the coach so Keldon and Lonnie will get minutes. Otherwise Pop will resign Belinelli for another 4 years

[XDT76]

all of them were free agents this offseason, ain't nothing left for the next one. Just gotta hope we change the coach so Keldon and Lonnie will get minutes. Otherwise Pop will resign Belinelli for another 4 years

At this moment of time resigning of Belli and Forbes are given, Spurs almost always re-sign their own FA unless some other paid them more than Spurs willing to, which I cannot foresee any other teams doing that. The other reason is if they decided not to sign with Spurs or wanted to retire, which again I believe not happening at this moment of time. So next year probably Spurs will lose DDR and sign their 1st rd pick and give Poeltl, Forbes and Belli a pay rise and maybe an extension to White.

[phxspurfan]

team is dead for multiple years with the current roster/coach, tbh. No draft/single FA signing will save them from mediocrity

[dbestpro]

This is the second year in a row that we have played without a true SF. Our problem is not guard. Our problem is we need 2 to 3 players who are small forwards. We do not have even one.

[Truth4sale$]

Spurs put all their faith in Kawhi, and his backups were allowed to leave(Kyle Anderson, Jonathan Simmons). They got caught with no in house solution. Now the spurs have a plethora of guards and big forwards (Aldridge, Metu, Lyles, Samanic, Gay, Carroll). Possibly, they need to reevaluate their scouting dept because their was quite a few forwards they passed on in this pass draft and the Spurs cant afford to miss again. Personally hoping if the Spurs miss the playoffs, I hope they can get Jayden McDaniels, a 6'9 , 19 yr forward from Washington.

[Russ]

This guy might be available:

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/keldon-johnson/

[r0drig0lac]

Marco 45/4

[Fusternino]

I've always thought Keldon was more of a 2/3 in the mold of "Green with handles" than a true forward?

[Prime BEEF]

This is the second year in a row that we have played without a true SF. Our problem is not guard. Our problem is we need 2 to 3 players who are small forwards. We do not have even one.
This team has many issues. The no SF issue is a huge glaring one but still one of many

[Prime BEEF]

This guy might be available:

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/keldon-johnson/
He’s a SG not a SF. You can play him at the 3 and he’s probably better suited to do that than the other spurs guards but he’s still not a true SF

[Prime BEEF]

IMO, Nwora and Brey are the 2 best true SFs in this draft but they can be had in the 20s. Would prefer we add a late 1st rd pick somehow to pick up one of these guys and then use our actual pick on best available talent.

[paperboy77]

It's easy to say this in retrospect. But it would have been cool seeing Murray and Shai gilgeous backcourt

Pop would never allow the growth in Shai.

[Mugen]

They've got Keldon waiting. Even if there are other good SFs out there, it won't mean a thing without a coaching change.

[RC_Drunkford]

At this moment of time resigning of Belli and Forbes are given, Spurs almost always re-sign their own FA unless some other paid them more than Spurs willing to, which I cannot foresee any other teams doing that. The other reason is if they decided not to sign with Spurs or wanted to retire, which again I believe not happening at this moment of time. So next year probably Spurs will lose DDR and sign their 1st rd pick and give Poeltl, Forbes and Belli a pay rise and maybe an extension to White.

Beli already said he wants to retire a Spur. We just gotta hope Flopovich is out. The sooner the better

[Dejounte]

Here is who the Spurs will draft:

https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/spurs-reportedly-been-scouting-maccabi-tel-avivs-deni-avdija

Just like Luka last year, its sitting right in front of our faces who they will draft.

[Prime BEEF]

You mean you want the spurs to DRAFT a guy who wasn't good enough to be drafted one and done and play him over a guy who was and whom beat his team head up as a true freshman when that guy was a sophomore and is now a Junior, also the guy you want him to play over has already had a "year in the Program"


And they are pretty much the same size.

https://ukathletics.com/images/2019/6/20/nba_2019.jpg


https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/wdrb.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/6/bc/6bcde396-3612-11e9-8203-aba188f50a83/5c6f023a2f86f.image.png?resize=1200%2C601

really? You would play SG, K. Johnson at SF over SF, J. Nwora?

Comparison:
KJ:
6’6”, 6’9.25” wing span, 13.5ppg/5.9rpg, 38.1% 3pt%, 3rd best player on elite 8 team

Nwora:
6’7.5”, 6’10.5” wing span, 21.2ppg/7.5rpg, 43.9% 3pt%, best player on #3 team in country(will be #1 after Saturday’s game), pre-season ACC PoY (likely regular season ACC PoY)

obviously you’re entitled to your opinion but I don’t understand it. Why not have both? And play KJ at SG and have Nwora at SF? We really need players at SF and KJ is not the answer there...at all.

[BackHome]

We really need to get taller and more athletic being 6’6 - 6’8 n this league won’t cut it for SF anymore.

[Dejounte]

Dejounte/ White/ Quinndary
Keldon/ Lonnie/ Mills
Avdija/ Carroll
Samanic/ Lyles/ Metu
Poetl/ Eubanks

The future

[Dejounte]

First NORWA isn't 6'7"

and
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/MckmwM3q9b4/maxresdefault.jpg

this is the Clippers Closing FIVE, who is the center? who is the small forward? Who is the shooting guard, who is the port guard, who is the power forward?

my INFORMED opinion is right, your box score looking at phony numbers opinion is WRONG. But you're entitled to it.

Kawhi and George are your swingmen and they are way bigger compared to ours: Forbes and DeMar. Or even Keldon and Lonnie if we look forward to the future.

[Prime BEEF]

First NORWA isn't 6'7"

and
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/MckmwM3q9b4/maxresdefault.jpg

this is the Clippers Closing FIVE, who is the center? who is the small forward? Who is the shooting guard, who is the port guard, who is the power forward?

my INFORMED opinion is right, your box score looking at phony numbers opinion is WRONG. But you're entitled to it.
lol. Yes, he is. That was his nba combine measurements which are usually shorter than what’s listed. He’ll be listed as 6’8” on an nba roster. But Forget the fact that he’s taller...you’re ignoring the fact that he is also better.

[Prime BEEF]

We really need to get taller and more athletic being 6’6 - 6’8 n this league won’t cut it for SF anymore.
Not true. Height of the best SFs in the nba (according to nba.com) are listed below..

LBJ-6’9”
Durant-6’10”
Luka-6’7”
Kawhi-6’7”
P. George-6’8”
Ingram-6’7”
Siakam-6’9”
Tatum-6’8”
Butler-6’7”
Bogdanovic-6’8”
Middleton-6’7”
T. Harris-6’8”
Danilo-6’10”
G. Hayward-6’7”
OPJ-6’8”

[Prime BEEF]

What COMBINE

Oh, the combine Nora WASHED OUT OF and Keldon got drafted out of?

the one where Keldon had a HIGHER standing REACH than NORA

Kedlon will be 20 going into SPURS training Camp and NORA may not get drafted in the Second round let alone MAKE a Roster but if he does he'll be 22 years old.

LOL you're a funny duffas.
Nwora. Try to keep up

[Trueblood]

team is dead for multiple years with the current roster/coach, tbh. No draft/single FA signing will save them from mediocrity

I only half agree with this. I don't think there would be any move that makes us a contender. But trading DDR for a strong athletic 3 & D player would really help spread the floor (and open LA's midrange more) while simultaneously providing a competent defender for the likes of LeBron, Harden, nephew, etc... DDR is the exact opposite of what we need. Can't defend the 3 or 4 with any relative success and clogs up the teams spacing with the midrange.

With a move like that we still wouldn't beat either LA team, but it could move us up in the standings guaranteeing us a spot in the playoffs (which would be a mixed blessing). It would lower our pick but it could provide valuable playoff experience for the young ones.

[lmbebo]

Dejounte/ White/ Quinndary
Keldon/ Lonnie/ Mills
Avdija/ Carroll
Samanic/ Lyles/ Metu
Poetl/ Eubanks

The future

Sorry, not sure that future is bright with that team ...

[spurraider21]

Dejounte/ White/ Quinndary
Keldon/ Lonnie/ Mills
Avdija/ Carroll
Samanic/ Lyles/ Metu
Poetl/ Eubanks

The future
keldon definitely projects as a 3 tbh

[CGD]

Here is who the Spurs will draft:

https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/spurs-reportedly-been-scouting-maccabi-tel-avivs-deni-avdija

Just like Luka last year, its sitting right in front of our faces who they will draft.

Indeed, seems like a solid selection too.

[CGD]

Sorry, not sure that future is bright with that team ...

The goal is to build a solid base of youth, show that were trending in the right direction, and then make a play for an established FA. It’ll be a 5 year plan.

[Sugus]

Dejounte/ White/ Quinndary
Keldon/ Lonnie/ Mills
Avdija/ Carroll
Samanic/ Lyles/ Metu
Poetl/ Eubanks

The future

Lonnie should be getting starting SG minutes, with Keldon alternating between backup SG and SF depending on the matchup. But that's a lovely rotation otherwise

[Dejounte]

keldon definitely projects as a 3 tbh

Whats the difference between a 2 and a 3?

[Dejounte]

Keldon >>> Lonnie

[Sugus]

Keldon >>> Lonnie

Lol, let's rate the player who hasn't seen an NBA court over one who's dropped near 30 on it... Retarded takes as always

[spurraider21]

Whats the difference between a 2 and a 3?
dd you think lebron/wade were interchangeable in miami?

[Dejounte]

Lol, let's rate the player who hasn't seen an NBA court over one who's dropped near 30 on it... Retarded takes as always

Ive closely watched both and their style of play. In the Gleague. Cant say the same for you when you only look at box scores for stats.

[Dejounte]

dd you think lebron/wade were interchangeable in miami?

Keldon plays more like Wade and is closer to his size in your comparison.

[r0drig0lac]

The goal is to build a solid base of youth, show that were trending in the right direction, and then make a play for an established FA. It’ll be a 5 year plan.

link?

[Sugus]

Ive closely watched both and their style of play. In the Gleague. Cant say the same for you when you only look at box scores for stats.

Wow, so you follow the G-L and know how often skills displayed there don't translate to the NBA, yet you think Keldon is better, not one > but >>>, than Lonnie? Maybe it's not retardation but cognitive dissonance... Ever thought about getting that checked out by a doc tbh?

[spurraider21]

Keldon plays more like Wade and is closer to his size in your comparison.
Not answering the question

how about a Spurs example. Richard Jefferson and roger mason

[Dejounte]

Wow, so you follow the G-L and know how often skills displayed there don't translate to the NBA, yet you think Keldon is better, not one > but >>>, than Lonnie? Maybe it's not retardation but cognitive dissonance... Ever thought about getting that checked out by a doc tbh?

Who's pathetic alt is this? Lmao why dont you stop hiding behind alts? You criticize my takes but you dont have any of your own. It's easy to do what you're doing and acting tough on the internet thinking these insults get you points.

[Dejounte]

Not answering the question

how about a Spurs example. Richard Jefferson and roger mason

I should clarify better. When your size is in the in-between SG and SF like the 6-6 to 6-7 guys like DeMar... I think the difference between SG and SF doesnt matter. When you say he projects as a SF.... Can you tell me what you mean? Because I don't see it... If his skillset was that all he could do was defense and hit threes, i would agree. But Keldon can drive with the best of them.

[rjv]

Here is who the Spurs will draft:

https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/spurs-reportedly-been-scouting-maccabi-tel-avivs-deni-avdija

Just like Luka last year, its sitting right in front of our faces who they will draft.


i like avdija but not sure where he will land. i've seen some mock drafts place him outside the lotter and others placing him as a high lottery pick.

[Dejounte]

i like avdija but not sure where he will land. i've seen some mock drafts place him outside the lotter and others placing him as a high lottery pick.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bmi5wuynH05/?igshid=fjldql3sshjp

[duncan2150]

Avidja is really interesting, He will Be a lottery pick imo.
He could be a good target for the Spurs.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Avdija looks like a decent project. Spurs could certainly do worse if they pick 12-16th. He'll probably go higher though, as his ceiling is high.

[TD 21]

Here is who the Spurs will draft:

https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/spurs-reportedly-been-scouting-maccabi-tel-avivs-deni-avdija

Just like Luka last year, its sitting right in front of our faces who they will draft.

Yeah, I've thought this for a while.

It's probably unlikely they're in position to draft him with their own pick, but let's say they're 3-5 off.

If they trade DeRozan, either by the deadline or pre draft and the asset in return is a lottery protected 1st or prospect of commensurate value. They can add that to their own pick and maybe one of the (presumed) lesser young players, to move up.

The alternative is, they trade DeRozan for youngish veterans, in which case to move up they'd have to part with a (presumed) better young player and possibly a minor asset.

[gambit1990]

speaking of SGA, i would trade any two spurs for him.
i would trade any three spurs for SGA.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

With so many PGs projected to go in the lottery it seems likely that a good wing prospect could drop to the projected Spurs range. Really like the defensive potential of Isaac Okoro and Precious Achiuwa if their shots are fixable.

[Chinook]

It's amazing that in 2019 folks are still trying to talk about "true SFs". Even six or seven years ago, the average height for small-forwards was 6-6. That was with guys like James, Durant and Gay driving up the mean. In today's league, there's no point in even talking about getting 6-8, 6-9 dudes to play the three. Almost all of them will be fours or fives, and even if there remain some taller guys, their games no longer take advantage of their height.

I'm all in favor of getting defensive forward prospects. The team is still hurting from missing out on Morris. But they aren't hurting because they don't have a true small-forward. That's ridiculous tone-deaf bull shit. There's a middle ground between getting a PF to play the three and relying on Forbes to be a wing. Don't confuse Pop playing suboptimal guys with the team lacking size. Not counting Bryn, the team is average to above average at every position.

[Dejounte]

Chinook says the average height for small forwards was 6-6

Yet it was the teams with taller SFs who always led the pack and had more success. So yeah, let's go with the "average height" SF and be a mediocre team because Chinook says so.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Chinook (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) says the average height for small forwards was 6-6

Yet it was the teams with taller SFs who always led the pack and had more success. So yeah, let's go with the "average height" SF and be a mediocre team because Chinook (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) says so.

Well he's right, the likes of Kawhi, Jimmy Butler, Khris Middleton, etc. are all 6'6. The taller ones like Paul George play way more as 4s nowadays.

[Chinook]

Chinook (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) says the average height for small forwards was 6-6

Yet it was the teams with taller SFs who always led the pack and had more success. So yeah, let's go with the "average height" SF and be a mediocre team because Chinook (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) says so.

The best players in the league all happened to be SFs in the past generation. Obviously having taller guys with equal talent will make you better that's true for every position. But that doesn't mean that 6-6 guys are undersized at the three. They really haven't been in a long time. Bowen wasn't bigger than Keldon Johnson, but people still think he could check guys like Dirk (he couldn't, but that's a different thread) and he certainly had his share of match-ups against 6-8 guys. Was he a "true SF"? I don't think it matters.

EDIT: So Bowen may or may not have been taller and longer than Johnson. He was listed as 6-7, but the NBA only made the push to stop vanity metrics this past year. Likely, he was taller than Johnson's 6-4.75 without shoes, but it's possible that if he was it was only be a fraction of an inch. Wingspan was also probably close. Bowen didn't have combine measurements to go by, but Johnson's 6-9.25 isn't superlative enough to give him the edge. In terms of standing reach, Johnson ranked as the seventh-tallest pure SF in his class and ninth SF/combo-forward. There were definitely paint players who fell below Johnson there. Given Bruce's long neck, it's likely that Johnson had him beat there. Less ambiguously, Johnson is a stocky dude. His 216 pounds put him only behind Little in terms of wings with his standing reach or greater. Bowen likely weighed more than the 201 pounds listed, but Johnson probably had him beat there too and surely had Bowen beat size-wise at the same age.

[Chinook]

Well he's right, the likes of Kawhi, Jimmy Butler, Khris Middleton, etc. are all 6'6. The taller ones like Paul George play way more as 4s nowadays.

Yeah that's a huge part of it. SFs have gotten even smaller as teams have started valuing shooting and perimeter skills over size. I'd argue that SG has gotten even smaller with the rules letting teams get away with two guys who would've been classified as PGs playing together. Not every short guy is a lightening rod like Bryn is. Regardless, that has pushed more 6-5ish guys into the other wing spot. Most of the time, the opposing team won't be playing more than one player in the middle position that's too much for a 6-5 guy with strong defensive fundamentals to handle.

[Prime BEEF]

Not true. Height of the best SFs in the nba (according to nba.com) are listed below..

LBJ-6’9”
Durant-6’10”
Luka-6’7”
Kawhi-6’7”
P. George-6’8”
Ingram-6’7”
Siakam-6’9”
Tatum-6’8”
Butler-6’7”
Bogdanovic-6’8”
Middleton-6’7”
T. Harris-6’8”
Danilo-6’10”
G. Hayward-6’7”
OPJ-6’8”

These are the heights (per nba.com) for all of the best SFs. Rejoicing over having a 6’6” SF or pursuing one is not logical.

[Chinook]

These are the heights (per nba.com) for all of the best SFs. Rejoicing over having a 6’6” SF or pursuing one is not logical.

Yeah... this list reinforces the point. Not only do a lot of those guys play PF now but they're almost all within an inch or two of 6-6. No one's thinking, "Middleton being a whole inch taller is why he dominated". Nobody.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

These are the heights (per nba.com) for all of the best SFs. Rejoicing over having a 6’6” SF or pursuing one is not logical.

Not sure what's the worst - believing these heights are actually true for most listed players, not realizing the vast majority play as PFs, or caring whether an inch makes that much of a difference.

[JeffDuncan]

Not sure what's the worst - believing these heights are actually true for most listed players, not realizing the vast majority play as PFs, or caring whether an inch makes that much of a difference.

Except, it isn't an inch. The taller player almost always has longer arms, too. That's why there's the talk of "length" and wingspan. Put a 6'5" guy next to a 6'8" guy, and have them reach up. You'll see more than a 3" difference, in almost every case, sometimes a lot more.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Except, it isn't an inch. The taller player almost always has longer arms, too. That's why there's the talk of "length" and wingspan. Put a 6'5" guy next to a 6'8" guy, and have them reach up. You'll see more than a 3" difference, in almost every case, sometimes a lot more.

Now, standing reach is the more important measure by far, but I seriously doubt there are stats for significant difference in wingspan between players who are 6'6 and those who are 6'7 or 6'8. If you have a link for this I'd be happy to read.

Edit : Still none of this disproves the notion that 6'6 is a perfectly fine height for a modern NBA SF. Skills, athleticism, handles, feel for the game etc. - these are the things that are more important than an inch here or there.

[Chinook]

Except, it isn't an inch. The taller player almost always has longer arms, too. That's why there's the talk of "length" and wingspan. Put a 6'5" guy next to a 6'8" guy, and have them reach up. You'll see more than a 3" difference, in almost every case, sometimes a lot more.

Eh, basketball players are weird. You'll get plenty of players with wingspans five inches longer than their shoeless heights. Murray and Walker come to mind there. Johnson has a very good standing reach due to his body shape. It's better than Brandon Clarke's, I'm pretty sure.

[JeffDuncan]

Now, standing reach is the more important measure by far, but I seriously doubt there are stats for significant difference in wingspan between players who are 6'6 and those who are 6'7 or 6'8. If you have a link for this I'd be happy to read.

You put the word "significant" in, to make it your own judgment call, I see. As far as the measurements go, look it up yourself.

Basically, you're trying to argue that the NBA is not a game where the taller man has an advantage. That is incorrect.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

You put the word "significant" in, to make it your own judgment call, I see. As far as the measurements go, look it up yourself.

I said significant because you had an issue with my point that an inch doesn't make much of a difference - in order for the wingspan to add to the difference it'd have to be significantly longer, i.e. more than an inch on average. I've indeed looked it up for myself thanks.


Basically, you're trying to argue that the NBA is not a game where the taller man has an advantage. That is incorrect.

No. My argument is that skills are way more important than listed heights.

[Chinook]

You put the word "significant" in, to make it your own judgment call, I see. As far as the measurements go, look it up yourself.

Basically, you're trying to argue that the NBA is not a game where the taller man has an advantage. That is incorrect.

If height were the principle factor, teams wouldn't be getting smaller. No one has argued against the notion that if two guys have the same skill-set but one is taller that the taller man would be more desirable. But can a guy successfully defend players who are an inch taller than then on the regular? Of course. Very few ace defenders play at a consistent height advantage. Guys like Leonard, Butler, Bowen, Beverly and Allen regularly had to battle players who had much more than an inch on them.

If you had a magic pill to add two inches to Johnson's height with no side effects, I'd be down for you using it. But am I worried that Johnson lacks an inch on Jimmy Butler? No. Not at all.

[DPG21920]

Versatility is the key with Forwards, not just height. Wingspan and length are good, but the ability to be strong, switch onto multiple types of players and move on the perimeter is the big thing to look for (besides shooting obviously)

[Prime BEEF]

I’ll flip it on you. Who are the 3 best 6’6” and under SFs in the NBA?

[JeffDuncan]

...

No. My argument is that skills are way more important than listed heights.

Then why are NBA players so much taller than the average person? There are guys around, of average height, who have very impressive skills. No NBA club would even talk to them. Their lack of height is too much of a disadvantage. They could play a whole season, every game, without getting even one contested rebound.

But anyway, if it's an argument that there might be some players at 6'5" who could play SF (on a winning team,) then sure, there could be some. Taller is better, tho.

[Prime BEEF]

Yeah... this list reinforces the point. Not only do a lot of those guys play PF now but they're almost all within an inch or two of 6-6. No one's thinking, "Middleton being a whole inch taller is why he dominated". Nobody.
Not true. Their primary position is SF or wing...the one they start at and play the most at. Sure there are some small ball lineups that they play PF in but that’s not where they are usually used.

[Prime BEEF]

Not sure what's the worst - believing these heights are actually true for most listed players, not realizing the vast majority play as PFs, or caring whether an inch makes that much of a difference.
False. Those are the heights. Look up with and without shoes measurements yourself. Doesn’t take very long to see how tall they are.

see my other post. Thinking these players are mostly playing PF is ridiculous.

[Prime BEEF]

Versatility is the key with Forwards, not just height. Wingspan and length are good, but the ability to be strong, switch onto multiple types of players and move on the perimeter is the big thing to look for (besides shooting obviously)
Obviously agree with this.

The height thing is just a straw man argument for those that want KJ to get more playing time or think he’s the SF of the future for the spurs. They are just trying to justify this thought by saying Kawhi and others are basically 6’1” and height doesn’t matter

the problem with KJ is that he just isn’t very good regardless of his height. The fact that he is also short for a SF is just another reason the spurs need to look elsewhere to bring in the SF that we badly need.

[ZeusWillJudge]

It's amazing that in 2019 folks are still trying to talk about "true SFs". Even six or seven years ago, the average height for small-forwards was 6-6. That was with guys like James, Durant and Gay driving up the mean. In today's league, there's no point in even talking about getting 6-8, 6-9 dudes to play the three. Almost all of them will be fours or fives, and even if there remain some taller guys, their games no longer take advantage of their height.

I'm all in favor of getting defensive forward prospects. The team is still hurting from missing out on Morris. But they aren't hurting because they don't have a true small-forward. That's ridiculous tone-deaf bull shit. There's a middle ground between getting a PF to play the three and relying on Forbes to be a wing. Don't confuse Pop playing suboptimal guys with the team lacking size. Not counting Bryn, the team is average to above average at every position.


The "positionless NBA" makes a lot of discussions turn into arguments. A lot of sources are listing LeBron as a PG this year, even though he starts with Avery Bradley who is usually listed as the PG, even though he's a SG. Doncic is 6'7" and listed as a PG this year, even though he starts with other guys who are really PG's. I would take Doncic as the SF on this team any day of the week... but he's a PG. If you could create two guys with the exact same skill set, the taller one would have an advantage. But even that isn't a certainty because of wingspan, hand length, standing reach, etc.

These days you want a SF who is athletic and quick. And strong. And has range. And good handles. (There aren't many of those. We used to have one.) And he can be 6'6" if he has a long wingspan. That's probably better than 6'8" with alligator arms. If you look at that list of the "best" SF's, their size is a bonus. There are lots of guys with the size who would never be standout SF's.

[Russ]

KJ may be only 6'6" but he's not skinny -- he has a sturdy muscular NBA body.

He looks like he can defend SFs in this league.

[JeffDuncan]

If height were the principle factor, teams wouldn't be getting smaller. ...

They're not. The average height in the NBA has been 6'7" for 30 years.

https://www.probasketballtroops.com/average-nba-height/

[ZeusWillJudge]

They're not. The average height in the NBA has been 6'7" for 30 years.

https://www.probasketballtroops.com/average-nba-height/


Yep. They're just getting there a different way. I was looking earlier this week, and I think the 5 or 6 top teams in the NBA had assist leaders who were 6'7" or better. When your PG is 6'10" (Ben Simmons) some of your other positions can be shorter and the team can still average out the same.

[TD 21]

:lmao This debate again. For the umpteenth time, someone with the physical tools of Johnson is suited to defending 2.5's, not 3.5's which is unfortunately what the majority of the best wings are.

Height isn't the extent of size and it doesn't determine position. For example, Scumbag is very much a 3.5 and the nominal "SF" because despite "only" being 6'6'' he makes up for it by being 230 (if not 40) and having a 7'3'' wingspan, compared to George who's 6'8'', but 225 with a 6'11'' wingspan.

[Chinook]

They're not. The average height in the NBA has been 6'7" for 30 years.

https://www.probasketballtroops.com/average-nba-height/

That's a great article, and I appreciate you posting it. I think there are issues with its methodology though that get touched on in the article's conclusion. Simply listing the 450/510ish guys on rosters by height doesn't really capture the change in game. Instead, they should use play data to get the functional heights of the players. When guys like Siakam are listed as threes even though they play almost exclusively as PFs, it leaves a lot of be desired. Moreover, this type of listing assumes that guys mostly play at their listed position and essentially have direct backups. I don't believe this is true. If you instead took data for the average heights of the players on the court every minute and fed that into a model, you'd get average heights of guys in actual games and not just the third-string seven-footer

DeRozan, for example plays almost exclusively at SF. If plays another position, it's more likely to be PF than SG. He should be part of the data for small-forwards instead of SG or even G-F as NBA.com has him listed. LMA is a center. Just because the Spurs sometimes play two centers together doesn't mean he's a PF. I do think it's more helpful to do the play-time, positionless model. But if you're not going to do that, then you have to classify people correctly.

I do think the NBA is getting smaller. I also think they're getting shorter. But I don't believe that has been entirely reflected in their rosters yet. I think teams tend to want a few seven-footers just in case and load up on bigger guards yet still play smaller guys more often. I don't have the data to back that up, but I do believe it's true, and I believe the Spurs, in both good and bad ways, demonstrate that.

[Sugus]

Who's pathetic alt is this? Lmao why dont you stop hiding behind alts? You criticize my takes but you dont have any of your own. It's easy to do what you're doing and acting tough on the internet thinking these insults get you points.

Missed this mention... I didn't realize how stupid it sounded to accuse someone of being an alt. I guess your victim complex is kicking in and you think I'm after you? Grow a pair, my dude, and get some better fucking takes so they're not called out on their idiocy next time. As for my takes, you can see them around the forum... Not being retarded. Saying Keldon's better than Lonnie, lol - got any more of those?

[DavidTheGoliath]

That israeli boy is good. Hope we move up to draft him.

[JeffDuncan]

Yep. They're just getting there a different way. I was looking earlier this week, and I think the 5 or 6 top teams in the NBA had assist leaders who were 6'7" or better. When your PG is 6'10" (Ben Simmons) some of your other positions can be shorter and the team can still average out the same.

Indeed, and good point about Simmons.

Apparently the last few years have shown a tendency for shooting guards to get taller, and power forwards to get a little shorter, so they're converging on small forward height, the position closest to the league avg height. (Ignoring the Spurs' SG situation, ahem. In better days we were taller there.)

The even greater trend, tho, is for players to be lighter. Speed and mobility are the goals, even for the tallest players. Teams look for range, and moves, more than power now. Siakam could be seen as the model for that, I suppose.

[Prime BEEF]

That israeli boy is good. Hope we move up to draft him.
This kid is very raw and a project. He’s not going to have an immediate impact. He’s averaging 2.9ppg/2.5rpg for Tel Aviv right now. About on par with what he did last season. He’s not another Luka Doncic...not even close. Luka won euro league mvp and won a euro league title. Very different situation and a big gamble that high in the draft.

Deni could eventually be a decent nba player but do the spurs have the luxury to wait for his development? Are they in such a comfortable situation with this roster that if he’s a bust it won’t set the franchise back that much? Doubt he makes it down to our pick but it’s definitely a risky choice.

[dbestpro]

Small forwards who are tall abuse small forwards who are not. This is not rocket science and it has been that way a majority of the time in every league, every where. The common size is 6-7 to 6-9. Those who are 6-6 could carry the position back when they could play physical, but now it is just too easy for a tall small forward to rise up and shoot over the top.
Just for reference Bruce Bowen 6-7, Willie Anderson 6-7. Sean Elliot 6-8, Mike Mitchell 6-7, KL 6-7, Walter Berry 6-8 and so on. Even though DDR is 6-7, he plays like a SG and does not play the physical way SFs play. Yes, there still is a difference and those who think you can just plug any guard into a SF position needs to take a timeout cause you have lost your way.

[JeffDuncan]

... When guys like Siakam are listed as threes even though they play almost exclusively as PFs, it leaves a lot of be desired. ...

You are certainly correct that it does, especially since the starting SF for the Raps, when they're healthy, is Anunoby. Siakam is their PF. They've always been listed that way. I don't know where the other idea came from. A mistake.



Moreover, this type of listing assumes that guys mostly play at their listed position and essentially have direct backups. I don't believe this is true. If you instead took data for the average heights of the players on the court every minute and fed that into a model, you'd get average heights of guys in actual games and not just the third-string seven-footer

You raise an interesting question: are NBA reserves, in their overall average, taller than the starters? I don't know, but I wouldn't rule it out. Among individual players, you and I can instantly think of two examples: Boban, and Tacko Fall, who are reserves, of course.

Well, we can think of another one: Bertans. A bench player, taller than the starter. Hm. Being able to think of a few names doesn't prove anything, tho. It does open the question. If anybody has done the calculation, I don't know where.



DeRozan, for example plays almost exclusively at SF. If plays another position, it's more likely to be PF than SG. He should be part of the data for small-forwards instead of SG or even G-F as NBA.com has him listed. ...

I have to disagree about DDR. He was SG for 10 straight years with the Raps. He'd be at SG still if the Spurs' roster wasn't so flarnked. SG is his correct position. I believe you've argued that he could be played at PF, but that's hypothetical.



LMA is a center. ...

Not in his actual playing history in the NBA. His rookie year at Portland he was C, but then 8 straight years at PF. All through his "formative" years in the NBA, his 20s, he was a power forward. He's listed as C now because the Spurs seldom use two bigs, and they want him in the game. I don't know if there's an actual rule against having "PF" twice on a lineup card, but teams don't do it. So he's shown as the C. But he's a power forward. He's a shooter, not a slammer. Always has been.

If you want a center, Shaquille O'Neal. Classic slammer. Shaq played from age 20 to 38, and in that entire career I think he made only one 3pt shot, and he only tried it maybe a dozen times. LMA is vastly different. Totally different style.

To call LMA a center is to go directly against NBA terminology. Unless you just mean "tall guy," in which case Kevin Durant is a "center."

Among the big guys, an NBA center is a slammer, an NBA power forward is a shooter. That's how the terms have always been used. Of course the terminology has never been perfect.

Hakeem once attempted two 3pt shots in the same game, which was amazing at the time. He was a center.

What's happening in the NBA with the big guys is that the centers are going extinct, gradually. Very tall players are still in demand, but they need to be lighter and more mobile, with greater shooting range. Look at the stark contrast between Shaq and Porzingis. Albeit, the Unicorn is indeed listed as a PF, but he's over 7' tall.

At the moment, LMA has a 3pt percentage almost identical with Porzingis, btw.

Most important, never forget that Kobe Bryant's middle name is Bean. [Yawn]


I do think the NBA is getting smaller. I also think they're getting shorter. ...

Not shorter, overall, but the statistics do show that the taller players are getting lighter. Big fatties aren't usually fast enough now.

[DavidTheGoliath]

This kid is very raw and a project. He’s not going to have an immediate impact. He’s averaging 2.9ppg/2.5rpg for Tel Aviv right now. About on par with what he did last season. He’s not another Luka Doncic...not even close. Luka won euro league mvp and won a euro league title. Very different situation and a big gamble that high in the draft.Deni could eventually be a decent nba player but do the spurs have the luxury to wait for his development? Are they in such a comfortable situation with this roster that if he’s a bust it won’t set the franchise back that much? Doubt he makes it down to our pick but it’s definitely a risky choice.International player who is two years away from being two years away? PATFO would be gushing. Austin is waiting for him tbh.On a serious note how is he compared to Samanic at the same age?Forget the other Luka, that guy is something else. I dunno why people are comparing those 2 to begin with

[Prime BEEF]

International player who is two years away from being two years away? PATFO would be gushing. Austin is waiting for him tbh.On a serious note how is he compared to Samanic at the same age?Forget the other Luka, that guy is something else. I dunno why people are comparing those 2 to begin with
Samanic didn’t play in the euro league but he averaged around double the points and rebounds as Deni in his 2yrs playing professionally in Europe. Comparing the 2 pre-draft I would say pass on either of them but if you had to pick one I think Samanic showed more potential pre-draft than Deni.

The guy could certainly become good but the objective evidence doesn’t support the hype. They basically are just looking at his physical measurements, the fact that he can shoot, and dribble. But at some point you have to look at how he plays on the court. Especially if he’s going to be picked in the top 10

[Trueblood]

I’ll flip it on you. Who are the 3 best 6’6” and under SFs in the NBA?

I like how they just kinda skipped over this :lol

I agree that 6'6" isn't the ideal height of a starting SF I do think that talent and length can make up for it (as is the case with the development of Johnson). Most Spurs fans are sensitive to this issue because we've been sending DDR out as a 3 for over a year now and watching the taller SF's dominate him on the offensive side. They want a 6'8"-6'9" defensive presence who can body up LBJ, Durant, etc... And the idea of adding what they see as an undersized player into the rotation seems line the clinical definition of insanity.

I agree with the concept of positionless basketball but I think the argument presented here for it is slightly disingenuous. PG's and SG's are getting a little taller, centers and PF's are getting a little smaller and the value is no longer in the height to position ratio, it's in the ability to guard multiple positions (including your own). While the spurs have guards who can defend multiple positions, We lack that in our 3's, 4's and 5's. So what I think the argument here is is that Johnson may be good and may be able to do what we want, but is he what we need? Can he guard LBJ? Durant? Giannis?

At the end of the day we had that player in nephew who was only 6'7" but played bigger because of his length and could guard guys listed as a 3 (but as you've pointed out mostly play the 4). We need another player like that who can guard those players competently and hit the 3 at a decent clip to open the lane and the midrange. I like the idea of trading Orlando or Isaacs. I think he could be that guy for us with a little development.

[DaBears]

Absolutely nothing if we don't get a top 10 pick or try to bring back Bertans or JaMychal Green. Harrell probably wants to get paid.

What, we're just gonna use Bird Rights on Marco and Forbes?

Your talking like Bertans was a differnece maker on the team, and Green is 1 or 2 missed jumpers from being back in the G-league... Spurs need a star caliber player not a 7 or 8th player off the bench.
y

[XDT76]

Your talking like Bertans was a differnece maker on the team, and Green is 1 or 2 missed jumpers from being back in the G-league... Spurs need a star caliber player not a 7 or 8th player off the bench.
y

You are right that Bertans is not a star but if he starts at SF and DDR starts at SG, probably we would had a few games where the result would be favourable to the Spurs as compared to DDR at SF and Forbes at SG. It is also highly unlikely that we can sign an All-Star calibre player.

[duncan2150]

Samanic didn’t play in the euro league but he averaged around double the points and rebounds as Deni in his 2yrs playing professionally in Europe. Comparing the 2 pre-draft I would say pass on either of them but if you had to pick one I think Samanic showed more potential pre-draft than Deni.

The guy could certainly become good but the objective evidence doesn’t support the hype. They basically are just looking at his physical measurements, the fact that he can shoot, and dribble. But at some point you have to look at how he plays on the court. Especially if he’s going to be picked in the top 10


At the same age avidja is showing more tools, more potential than samanic.

One important thing is that samanic did not play for a big team like avidja, you can't compare their stats imo.

That doesn't mean samanic will not be better than avidja but the comparaison is not accurate for a lof of reasons....

[JeffDuncan]

I’ll flip it on you. Who are the 3 best 6’6” and under SFs in the NBA?

NBA SF's who are listed at 6'6" or shorter.

(Note - injuries can scramble starting lineups, as can roster peculiarities, so this is only SF's who are both shown as SF on the current depth chart, and whose regular position is shown as SF and nothing else. I'm not counting SF - SG combos. Only "pure" SFs. For example, the Fakers depth chart currently shows Danny Green as an SF, but we know him as an SG for years, and he's strictly SG on bballref.com, so, not counted.)

And these are starters. Not looking at the benches.

Hornets, Miles Bridges, 6'6"

Warriors, Glenn Robinson III, 6'6"

Grizzlies, Jae Crowder, 6'6"

Jazz, Royce O'Neal, 6'4"

For "pure" SFs, that's the crop, according to the current depth charts. Best 3? There's only 4, at this time, starting in the NBA.

The current depth charts have some shorter players at SF, under 6'6", but if you check them, they're normally SG's, or in one case, the Bulls, a PG.

[Prime BEEF]

NBA SF's who are listed at 6'6" or shorter.

(Note - injuries can scramble starting lineups, as can roster peculiarities, so this is only SF's who are both shown as SF on the current depth chart, and whose regular position is shown as SF and nothing else. I'm not counting SF - SG combos. Only "pure" SFs. For example, the Fakers depth chart currently shows Danny Green as an SF, but we know him as an SG for years, and he's strictly SG on bballref.com, so, not counted.)

And these are starters. Not looking at the benches.

Hornets, Miles Bridges, 6'6"

Warriors, Glenn Robinson III, 6'6"

Grizzlies, Jae Crowder, 6'6"

Jazz, Royce O'Neal, 6'4"

For "pure" SFs, that's the crop, according to the current depth charts. Best 3? There's only 4, at this time, starting in the NBA.

The current depth charts have some shorter players at SF, under 6'6", but if you check them, they're normally SG's, or in one case, the Bulls, a PG.
Wow. Thank you for the detailed research.

[RC_Drunkford]

Joe Harris will be a free agent in 2020. He's most likely gonna resign with the Nets and will get offers around 15 Million, but if he doesn't he's worth to take a look at. One of the best shooters in the league, clutch, good passer, good cutter, good defender with enough size and can play the 2 and the 3. If Pop decides to coach for another season there might be a chance since he played for him on the national team. Spurs could only afford him if DeRozan is gone

[BackHome]

NBA SF's who are listed at 6'6" or shorter.

(Note - injuries can scramble starting lineups, as can roster peculiarities, so this is only SF's who are both shown as SF on the current depth chart, and whose regular position is shown as SF and nothing else. I'm not counting SF - SG combos. Only "pure" SFs. For example, the Fakers depth chart currently shows Danny Green as an SF, but we know him as an SG for years, and he's strictly SG on bballref.com, so, not counted.)

And these are starters. Not looking at the benches.

Hornets, Miles Bridges, 6'6"

Warriors, Glenn Robinson III, 6'6"

Grizzlies, Jae Crowder, 6'6"

Jazz, Royce O'Neal, 6'4"

For "pure" SFs, that's the crop, according to the current depth charts. Best 3? There's only 4, at this time, starting in the NBA.

The current depth charts have some shorter players at SF, under 6'6", but if you check them, they're normally SG's, or in one case, the Bulls, a PG.

Eek and 3 of those 4 teams are lottery teams fighting for a top 5 pick.

[gambit1990]

i would trade any three spurs for SGA.
SGA put up 20, 20, 10 on 67% shooting tonight.

[Prime BEEF]

SGA put up 20, 20, 10 on 67% shooting tonight.
I don’t think okc would give us SGA for any of our players.