Grades: Spurs @ Mavs - Dec. 26, 2019

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-san-antonio-spurs-dallas-mavericks-december-26-2019/

tl;dr: The Spurs didn't shoot 70% again.

[tbdog]

Sigh. I think Pop has lost more games this year than a player has.

[timtonymanu]

Spurs getting a home loss to the Warriors will really top off this shitfest season. :lol

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

belli is just unfortunate

[poopbox]

It's sad watching an all time great coach get outcoached and out schemed by literally EVERYONE...

[Prime BEEF]

It's sad watching an all time great coach get outcoached and out schemed by literally EVERYONE...
He is destroying his legacy this season and creating doubt as to whether it was really him or the great players that he’s had. If he makes no trades and runs this same team back next year I think the National media will finally crack and start calling him out.

[RC_Drunkford]

so timvp is it worth it to lose another 10 games so Walker becomes an even better player? Will he be MVP after this benching?

[Truth4sale$]

Thanks TimVP, but did u grade Forbes on a curve? He couldn't shoot! That's why he is on the floor, to make shots. He didn't. He didnt take the shot at the end of the 4th qtr, which means he either had no game awareness or loss confidence in his shot. If he is not doing his primary job-, nothing else matters. He has become unplayable and removing him as a starter will likely destroy what's left of his confidence, but playing him as a starter is destroying chances of winning close games.

[emanueldavidginobili]

1210443410701770752

Pretty good thread on twitter showcasing the bums

[objective]

so timvp is it worth it to lose another 10 games so Walker becomes an even better player? Will he be MVP after this benching?

It's always worth losing bunches of games if it means that Walker can be inserted into a 20 point blowout and lead a comeback.

January 17, home against Atlanta after a 4 game road trip. Perfect time for Lonnie.

[vavvi]

Thanks for the grades.
I think this one was on Demar and Murray which corresponds with the grades.

timvp, what do you think about Murray-White pairing? I hated the fit with Derozan and I totally get why Pop doesn't play the three of them together a lot.

[Sugus]

Thanks for the grades.
I think this one was on Demar and Murray which corresponds with the grades.

timvp, what do you think about Murray-White pairing? I hated the fit with Derozan and I totally get why Pop doesn't play the three of them together a lot.

White-Dejounte pairing will always suffer as long as DeMar is included in that same lineup. Derrick has been a bit more aggressive with his shooting but it's a defense-first pairing, so placing a non-shooting, useless-without-the-ball and out of position SF is going to lead to disasters consistently. I would like to see it next season, under a different coach, and a different supporting cast. But there's potential there for sure.

[rjv]

still hoping that pop is trying to see what he can muster with this sad, but statistically better shooting, rotation until he jettisons all hope for the playoffs and starts going with the younger guns. one of the better reasons to watch the spurs at this point is with the hopes of seeing the younger players get on the floor and in different combinations; and that's just not happening at this time.

[Truth4sale$]

still hoping that pop is trying to see what he can muster with this sad, but statistically better shooting squad, rotation until he jettisons all hope for the playoffs and starts going with the younger guns. one of the better reasons to watch the spurs at this point is with the hopes of seeing the younger players get on the floor and in different combinations; and that's just not happening at this time.

Popovich is trying to win. He is trying together better shooting on the floor, and create specialist that wont interfere with the touches needed for DeMar and LaMarcus to find rhythm. It worked last year because the Spurs had Bertans for spacing, and DeRozan with a chip on his shoulder, Derrick White with more point guard &shooting skills than an inexperienced Dejounte and maybe a Rudy Gay playing for a contract. But not this year. But Popovich wont deviate because Spurs are still only 2Games behind 8th spot. All it takes is a 6 game win streak boys and girls!

[rjv]

Popovich is trying to win. He is trying together better shooting on the floor, and create specialist that wont interfere with the touches needed for DeMar and LaMarcus to find rhythm. It worked last year because the Spurs had Bertans for spacing, and DeRozan with a chip on his shoulder, Derrick White with more point guard &shooting skills than an inexperienced Dejounte and maybe a Rudy Gay playing for a contract. But not this year. But Popovich wont deviate because Spurs are still only 2Games behind 8th spot. All it takes is a 6 game win streak boys and girls!

i do think that the upcoming schedule affords the spurs a shot at a decent winning percentage and possibly edging closer to .500 ball, but i think the wheels will start to fall of closer to the start of the rodeo road trip and that things will really look bleak once that road trip comes to an end. then, i think we might see pop yield to the younger players. until then, this rotation (barring injury) will likely be the one we see for another month or so.

[John B]

Thanks TimVP, but did u grade Forbes on a curve? He couldn't shoot! That's why he is on the floor, to make shots. He didn't. He didnt take the shot at the end of the 4th qtr, which means he either had no game awareness or loss confidence in his shot. If he is not doing his primary job-, nothing else matters. He has become unplayable and removing him as a starter will likely destroy what's left of his confidence, but playing him as a starter is destroying chances of winning close games.
Agree. Forbes deserves no better than D-. Likewise Pop should keep on getting F for insisting on using the same line-up that keeps on losing. I’m not impressed with Mavericks the way Porzingis is playing. Blazers suck. I know Spurs is better than its record. And as much respect I have for Pop, I can only blame him for it.

[duncan2150]

i do think that the upcoming schedule affords the spurs a shot at a decent winning percentage and possibly edging closer to .500 ball, but i think the wheels will start to fall of closer to the start of the rodeo road trip and that things will really look bleak once that road trip comes to an end. then, i think we might see pop yield to the younger players. until then, this rotation (barring injury) will likely be the one we see for another month or so.


The spurs will play detroit and GS at home, if they loose one of these games that will Be difficult with bucks x2 OKC Celtics Miami Toronto in the next 7 games.

[John B]

1210443410701770752

Pretty good thread on twitter showcasing the bums
What was that pass on White to shoot the 3 on the last secs? “Here, you think you can shoot better?” Damn Lonnie at this point can shoot better, and will not get burn on D.

[spurraider21]

i dont understand how timvp can say that Lonnie getting a DNP-CD is frustrating tbh... because clearly pop is just trying to get the best out of him

[DPG21920]

It’s sad watching good fans cling to the hope for momentum to come around knowing that SA is who they are with no real hope of anything changing.

Just hoping a team shoots better is not a viable strategy. They aren’t any good on either side of the ball coupled with poor coaching. It’s frustrating to see fans keep hoping and praying in the face of OVERWHELMING evidence.

[Mugen]

i dont understand how timvp can say that Lonnie getting a DNP-CD is frustrating tbh... because clearly pop is just trying to get the best out of him

:lol

[Dex]

Forbes ineptitude has gone way beyond frustrating.

Nevermind the missed shots and non-existent defense...but what the hell was he thinking on the final play? You've just managed to scramble back within 4 points, you are wide-open on the fast break with 15 seconds left and know you need a three...and you stop and throw the ball back out to midcourt?

The only reason he was on the floor at that moment was to take that shot. You aren't going to manufacture a better opportunity with the time left on the clock.

But, as usual, he hung his head after missing some shots and gave up.

[apalisoc_9]

Sniffvp Gave Pop a C-...You just know he wanted to give him a flat C

:lmao

[UZER]

Forbes must really REALLY hate DT. That’s why Pop loves him and plays him so much with no regard for actual results. :lol

[FkLA]

Forbes must really REALLY hate DT. That’s why Pop loves him and plays him so much with no regard for actual results. :lol

He's a hard working, little engine that could. He's probably at the Spurs practice facility all the time. The improvement in his game and the improvement to his body (no homo) are apparent. That's why Pop loves him and ignores the fact that, because of physical limitations, Forbes is really only capable of being a 10-15 mpg spark plug type guy.

[UZER]

He's a hard working, little engine that could. He's probably at the Spurs practice facility all the time. The improvement in his game and the improvement to his body (no homo) are apparent. That's why Pop loves him and ignores the fact that, because of physical limitations, Forbes is really only capable of being a 10-15 mpg spark plug type guy.

Yeah, I called him Rudy a while back. :lol

[JeffDuncan]

Forbes ineptitude has gone way beyond frustrating.

Nevermind the missed shots and non-existent defense...but what the hell was he thinking on the final play? You've just managed to scramble back within 4 points, you are wide-open on the fast break with 15 seconds left and know you need a three...and you stop and throw the ball back out to midcourt?

The only reason he was on the floor at that moment was to take that shot. You aren't going to manufacture a better opportunity with the time left on the clock.

But, as usual, he hung his head after missing some shots and gave up.

That was Forbes' version of being competitive. You see. He wanted the miss to go on somebody else's stat sheet. In addition to being inept at most facets of the game, he's also a dishonest little rat. He should be playing for the Fakers, tbh.

[K...]

The humiliation of Forbes will make him a great coach later in life. Pop is putting him into failure to help him before trading him away.

[alpha_HaZE]

look at you clowns, we lost to a better team with better players. It wasn't because of coaching, actually we stayed in the game because of coaching!

[tholdren]

Didn't forbes have a positive plus minus? He's great then according to spurstalk

[tbdog]

look at you clowns, we lost to a better team with better players. It wasn't because of coaching, actually we stayed in the game because of coaching!

Disagree. The players were doing well, heck we even defender well considering. Yes we missed shots but the Mavs were going after our weakest links. Put Walker and Carroll, the offense wouldn't get any worse while our defense straight up is better.

[spurs10]

Thanks for the grades. I am glad to see folks mentioning the horrible Forbes mistake at the end. Passing the ball when wide open on the 3 pt line when you're down 4 was really bad. Otherwise the Walker benching didn't make any sense either, especially when our perimeter defense was so weak.

[RC_Drunkford]

i do think that the upcoming schedule affords the spurs a shot at a decent winning percentage and possibly edging closer to .500 ball, but i think the wheels will start to fall of closer to the start of the rodeo road trip and that things will really look bleak once that road trip comes to an end. then, i think we might see pop yield to the younger players. until then, this rotation (barring injury) will likely be the one we see for another month or so.

this tbh. The rodeo road trip will put the nail in the coffin, they won't win more than 2 of those games.

One thing about the White/Murray pairing is that they haven't really played together. Can't really take the 12 minutes they played together this season as a sample size. Pop should still play them more often, especially when he goes super small with DeRozan at the 4


Forbes ineptitude has gone way beyond frustrating.

Nevermind the missed shots and non-existent defense...but what the hell was he thinking on the final play? You've just managed to scramble back within 4 points, you are wide-open on the fast break with 15 seconds left and know you need a three...and you stop and throw the ball back out to midcourt?

The only reason he was on the floor at that moment was to take that shot. You aren't going to manufacture a better opportunity with the time left on the clock.

But, as usual, he hung his head after missing some shots and gave up.


He deserves a permanent benching for that, but you know Senilovich will start him the next game and tell Walker to be more competitive while he plays in garbage time

[wildbill2u]

There should be a grade for overall team effort. I was cheering on the Spurs in that last SPURt of the closing minutes of the 4th. They didn't just give up and play out the string.

[tholdren]

Didn't forbes have a positive plus minus? He's great then according to spurstalk
This

[alpha_HaZE]

Disagree. The players were doing well, heck we even defender well considering. Yes we missed shots but the Mavs were going after our weakest links. Put Walker and Carroll, the offense wouldn't get any worse while our defense straight up is better.

Disagree? Lukas is above, Harden, LeBron and Kawhi in the MVP race. Walker and Carrol are the only two Spurs that are statistically worse than Beli.

[Sugus]

Disagree? Lukas is above, Harden, LeBron and Kawhi in the MVP race. Walker and Carrol are the only two Spurs that are statistically worse than Beli.

Not like the Spurs had any business winning against these Mavs, but taking Lonnie's and Carroll's stats when they've played such little and sporadic minutes is quite misleading. Walker at the least is better than Beli at every facet of the game except for offensive gravity, since he's not allowed the opportunity to shoot enough to be considered an actual threat, and off-ball movement, which he should be practicing on the court.

[alpha_HaZE]

Not like the Spurs had any business winning against these Mavs, but taking Lonnie's and Carroll's stats when they've played such little and sporadic minutes is quite misleading. Walker at the least is better than Beli at every facet of the game except for offensive gravity, since he's not allowed the opportunity to shoot enough to be considered an actual threat, and off-ball movement, which he should be practicing on the court.

In which way is Lonnie the better defender then Beli when he commits twice the fouls and turns the ball over twice as often?

[tbdog]

Disagree? Lukas is above, Harden, LeBron and Kawhi in the MVP race. Walker and Carrol are the only two Spurs that are statistically worse than Beli.

Luka was a little injured and Murray/White did a good job. Regardless, the Mavs got plenty of open 3 point looks. Carrol and Walker would assist in this area. The 3 amigos weren't hitting their 3's, so may as well get some size out there.

[JeffDuncan]

In which way is Lonnie the better defender then Beli when he commits twice the fouls and turns the ball over twice as often?


Beli doesn't commit many fouls, because the man he's supposed to be guarding is usually not within arm's reach.

Turnovers are kinda more of a thing on the other end. In basketball, there are two different parts of it: there's defense, but then there's offense, too. Try to follow along, I know it's complicated.

[MultiTroll]

Thanks for the grades. I am glad to see folks mentioning the horrible Forbes mistake at the end. Passing the ball when wide open on the 3 pt line when you're down 4 was really bad. Otherwise the Walker benching didn't make any sense either, especially when our perimeter defense was so weak.

[XDT76]

1210443410701770752

Pretty good thread on twitter showcasing the bums

I think he is being polite, currently the 3 SG cannot even have decent shooting night most of the nights.

[Raven]

i don't understand what happened to give lyles and beli their place in the rotation again..

[ZeusWillJudge]

Forbes ineptitude has gone way beyond frustrating.

Nevermind the missed shots and non-existent defense...but what the hell was he thinking on the final play? You've just managed to scramble back within 4 points, you are wide-open on the fast break with 15 seconds left and know you need a three...and you stop and throw the ball back out to midcourt?

The only reason he was on the floor at that moment was to take that shot. You aren't going to manufacture a better opportunity with the time left on the clock.

But, as usual, he hung his head after missing some shots and gave up.


That was criminal level stupidity. Poor clock management is bad coaching, in any sport. And if a player is just too stupid to get it, a good coach won't put him in the game in those situations. But Pop will continue to.

[alpha_HaZE]

Beli doesn't commit many fouls, because the man he's supposed to be guarding is usually not within arm's reach.

Turnovers are kinda more of a thing on the other end. In basketball, there are two different parts of it: there's defense, but then there's offense, too. Try to follow along, I know it's complicated.

Watch the first Clippers game and tell me was Lonnie's man withing reach?

and fuck off, you troll.

Listen, Lonnie has much higher ceiling than Marco, but remember this is basically his rookie season. Last year, he was mostly recovering from that injury he had in college. So let him figure things out, I am sure Pop will eventually play him.

[alpha_HaZE]

Luka was a little injured and Murray/White did a good job. Regardless, the Mavs got plenty of open 3 point looks. Carrol and Walker would assist in this area. The 3 amigos weren't hitting their 3's, so may as well get some size out there.

When one team doesn't hit the threes and the other does, then that's that. It had to do with Lonnie playing or not. Saying that we lost the game we might as well played our young guys that's after the fact.

[tholdren]

I think he is being polite, currently the 3 SG cannot even have decent shooting night most of the nights.

This lame tweet shows many errors that contributed to a miss by forbes or a defensive letdown

[tholdren]

I think he is being polite, currently the 3 SG cannot even have decent shooting night most of the nights.

Also at least 3 of those weren't even forbes fault, it was lma. The perimeter defense is so bad bc the bigs cant defend a pick.

[FkLA]

In which way is Lonnie the better defender then Beli when he commits twice the fouls and turns the ball over twice as often?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jlulw8U4Ynk

[JeffDuncan]

Watch the first Clippers game and tell me was Lonnie's man withing reach?

and fuck off, you troll.

Listen, Lonnie has much higher ceiling than Marco, but remember this is basically his rookie season. Last year, he was mostly recovering from that injury he had in college. So let him figure things out, I am sure Pop will eventually play him.

You cited turnovers as a defensive thing, you stupid idiot. Either get your brain on straight or fuck off, shit head. Got it?

The reason Lonnie missed time last year wasn't because of anything in college, you ignorant fool, it was because of a meniscus tear in a preseason game in October against Detroit. You don't know anything about any of this.

Look, junior, make at least a little effort to learn something of what you're trying to talk about. If you don't, people will think you're nothing but a trolling dumpwad. Okay?

[alpha_HaZE]

You cited turnovers as a defensive thing, you stupid idiot. Either get your brain on straight or fuck off, shit head. Got it?

The reason Lonnie missed time last year wasn't because of anything in college, you ignorant fool, it was because of a meniscus tear in a preseason game in October against Detroit. You don't know anything about any of this.

Look, junior, make at least a little effort to learn something of what you're trying to talk about. If you don't, people will think you're nothing but a trolling dumpwad. Okay?

sure lets exchange insults, Lonnie was not healthy, that a fact you morron and that's the only reason he fell to the 18th spot. Move on.

[JeffDuncan]

sure lets exchange insults, Lonnie was not healthy, that a fact you morron and that's the only reason he fell to the 18th spot. Move on.

It was exactly as I told you, you little shit head, whether you like it or not. If you can't handle it, then move along, little shit head.

[alpha_HaZE]

It was exactly as I told you, you little shit head, whether you like it or not. If you can't handle it, then move along, little shit head.

OK, let's agree to disagree then.

[JeffDuncan]

OK, let's agree to disagree then.

If you disagree you're wrong, dimwit, because I told you the facts.

[DPG21920]

If you disagree you're wrong, dimwit, because I told you the facts.

Please stop being such an unpleasant poster to engage with. Of course you’re free to do what you please but it’s just really annoying and off putting when you actually seem to really want to talk basketball.

[BackHome]

Fact 1 . He fell to 18 cause of injury concerns
Fact 2. He spent a lot of time last year rehabbing from his knee surgery.
Fact 3. He was like Luka a young guy who has a lot of potential but is going to need two or three years to be ready.

[JeffDuncan]

Please stop being such an unpleasant poster to engage with. Of course you’re free to do what you please but it’s just really annoying and off putting when you actually seem to really want to talk basketball.

Kiss my ass. If you want to talk basketball, why aren't you doing it? Liar. Get personal, and what you will get is:

Kiss my ass.

[DPG21920]

Kiss my ass. If you want to talk basketball, why aren't you doing it? Liar. Get personal, and what you will get is:

Kiss my ass.

That doesn’t make any sense. I’m just here to talk basketball.

Keep it up - see what happens. You have been warned.

[TimDunkem]

Jeff is an angry man.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

dpg is an angry little man


this could get nasty

[DPG21920]

dpg is an angry little man


this could get nasty

Lol

[ZeusWillJudge]

Kiss my ass. If you want to talk basketball, why aren't you doing it? Liar. Get personal, and what you will get is:

Kiss my ass.


There's a difference between growing a dick and being a dick.