Bryn Forbes on how LA making 3s impacts the offense: "Now teams have to guard him all the way to the 3-point line instead of sagging off, clogging the lane and giving less space for everyone else."

[RC_Drunkford]

https://twitter.com/tom_orsborn/status/1211138089730613249

Forbes throwing Aldridge under the bus :lol

Imagine somebody saying "now with Walker starting people can't just shoot over or drive past him , we don't have to help off his man and don't leave 3-point shooters wide open anymore. He can also get to the rim without getting blocked"

[Genovaswitness]

alpha move tbh

[John B]

I’m okay with LMA to take 3’s WHEN available, but he needs also to establish the paint and mix it up. What’s bad is if he falls in love with outside shot and never want to punish smaller defenders down the paint. Guards need to learn to cut and maximize the created space, especially Walker/Murray who can beat their defenders off the dribble. I hope it’s a design to play Walker more, instead of Beli.

[Slippy]

Bryn buying into that floor spacing hype. Its bitch move tbh

More like LA flourishing at the three has everything to do with spurs playing Demar from driving inside or off the post.

[r0drig0lac]

wtf

[RC_Drunkford]

this is like Belinelli saying "DeRozan is now finding team mates instead of bricking midrange shots. He has been finding me. He's doing a good job" :lol

[Rummpd]

Longest thread title ever?

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

thread title tl;dr tbh

[JeffDuncan]

https://twitter.com/tom_orsborn/status/1211138089730613249

Forbes throwing Aldridge under the bus :lol
...

How so? Explain what you mean.

That is absolutely nothing but the most plain-vanilla cliche. Forbes repeated it like a parrot.

So what are you talking about?

[ZeusWillJudge]

How so? Explain what you mean.

So what are you talking about?

You spend most of your life saying stuff like this, don't you? It's just a big ol' confusing world.

Let me ask you this: If opposing defenses have been sagging and clogging the lane... wouldn't that make things easier for Forbes, who lives out on the perimeter?

[Chinook]

You spend most of your life saying stuff like this, don't you? It's just a big ol' confusing world.

Let me ask you this: If opposing defenses have been sagging and clogging the lane... wouldn't that make things easier for Forbes, who lives out on the perimeter?

No. Bryn's man can guard him even tighter because he knows Forbes can't drive into a clogged paint. If the defender knew he didn't have backup at the rim, he'd have to also play Forbes for the drive, and that would mean a less aggressive closeout and more time for Bryn to get a clean look.

[Dejounte]

It does change the team dynamic if Aldridge shoots more 3s.

[Chinook]

It does change the team dynamic if Aldridge shoots more 3s.

It does. If LMA, DMDR and DJM can average about 10 3PA a game and shoot in the mid-30s that goes a long way toward fixing the SL's spacing issues. It might be enough to replacing Forbes with Walker or Carroll. But it needs to be all three guys taking and making those shots. Aldridge's principle value to the offense is his post game, so the team can't afford for him to become another Gasol.

[itzsoweezee]

How so? Explain what you mean.

That is absolutely nothing but the most plain-vanilla cliche. Forbes repeated it like a parrot.

So what are you talking about?

Lol. The dipshit literally said LA's style of play made it harder on everyone else in the floor.

I can't imagine being such a flawed player and thinking it's ok to criticize teammates that have accomplished more in one season than I've done in my career.

[itzsoweezee]

It does. If LMA, DMDR and DJM can average about 10 3PA a game and shoot in the mid-30s that goes a long way toward fixing the SL's spacing issues. It might be enough to replacing Forbes with Walker or Carroll. But it needs to be all three guys taking and making those shots. Aldridge's principle value to the offense is his post game, so the team can't afford for him to become another Gasol.

The "post game" is trash and antiquated. The Spurs would be better off if LMA stopped posting up altogether.

[RC_Drunkford]

LaMarcus Aldridge enjoyed his night in Bizarro World, knocking down a career-best five 3-pointers on his way to 25 points and 12 rebounds.

For the first time this season, the All-Star forward scored more 3-point shots than 2-pointers (four).

“We want him to shoot those,” coach Gregg Popovich said. “He shoots 10 a game, that’s good with me.”

:wow

[dbestpro]

Forbes has the lowest FG% inside the three of any rotation player and basically is trying to blame it on LMA.

[RC_Drunkford]

Lol. The dipshit literally said LA's style of play made it harder on everyone else in the floor.

I can't imagine being such a flawed player and thinking it's ok to criticize teammates that have accomplished more in one season than I've done in my career.

that's exactly my point


It does. If LMA, DMDR and DJM can average about 10 3PA a game and shoot in the mid-30s that goes a long way toward fixing the SL's spacing issues. It might be enough to replacing Forbes with Walker or Carroll. But it needs to be all three guys taking and making those shots. Aldridge's principle value to the offense is his post game, so the team can't afford for him to become another Gasol.

logically, you'd think posting up LaMarcus and having DeRozan shoot 3s should be the approach, but it might just work better the other way around. LaMarcus is the better shooter between the 2 and DeRozan the better passer

[Chinook]

The "post game" is trash and antiquated. The Spurs would be better off if LMA stopped posting up altogether.

The post-game isn't any more antiquated than other forms of iso plays. The ability to force mismatches and make teams play bigger will always have value. The issue is getting better position and making quicker decisions. Can't get the ball 20 feet from the basket and then take 12 seconds to shoot a fadeaway or make a bad pass because you didn't see the help or your teammates did not move correctly without the ball.

[Chinook]

that's exactly my point



logically, you'd think posting up LaMarcus and having DeRozan shoot 3s should be the approach, but it might just work better the other way around. LaMarcus is the better shooter between the 2 and DeRozan the better passer

I think you'd want the option of doing both. Aldridge shooting threes opens up driving lanes like Forbes said. But the Spurs won't be as good as they can be if they can't also just post a team up every possession to force the defense to warp.

[offset formation]

If LMA suddenly turns into a 3pt shooting power forward and maintains his ability to still take it down low, he just extendededededed his career by 5 years.

He should be able to get looks out there for years in the right offensive system. Plus his defense remains above average.

Dude may have just found the way to get the Spurs out of our doldrums. This range completely changes the dynamic of the team. Now he's not going to become a 42% shooter from 3, but even if he can maintain 36-37% on 8-10 attempts per game, we look good going forward.

[jermaine]

Forbes can't even crack my rotations on 2k20.. He's a bum an I've always applauded his shooting. Fuck him an DeRozan

[K...]

https://youtu.be/iJAhp8DnKds

Poop as designated him the LEADER OF THE TEAM


It was by Intent Design and Desire for him to take Danny Green's Place as the starting shooting guard.

The INTENT and DESIRE was to save $$ from when they planned on Danny to opt out and get $$. Don't throw up shit about the spurs missing judgments on talent when they've cheapened out since the Red Mcolmes days. For all we know the plan was to run Murray and Patty. Brynn didn't become the chosen one until last year when parker, manu had left and derozan came in requiring spacing. He buffed up last year and outplayed pet mills. And there was a rumor that lonnie woudlve gotten play as a rookie before his injury. If anything it was drafting lonnie and white as SG that led to Danny getting the boot.

[ElNono]

Why we need Forbes if LMA basically has to play his role? Get this scrub off this team ASAP plz

[R. DeMurre]

The big question is "why did it take so long?" Pop saying he'd be happy with LMA shooting more threes seems so odd... his rep as a coach is he'd demand more threes from him, not gently suggest it & wait forever for it to happen. Either way, the communication & execution seems to be lacking.

[JeffDuncan]

You spend most of your life saying stuff like this, don't you? It's just a big ol' confusing world.

I'll ask it to you. What are you babbling about, goofball?



Let me ask you this: If opposing defenses have been sagging and clogging the lane... wouldn't that make things easier for Forbes, who lives out on the perimeter?

Maybe you can speak to the OP about that. You're lost again.

[JeffDuncan]

Lol. The dipshit literally said LA's style of play made it harder on everyone else in the floor.

No he didn't. He only recited the same "spacing" cliche everybody has heard a thousand times. It's a total yawn.

[apalisoc_9]

the nerve

[itzsoweezee]

The post-game isn't any more antiquated than other forms of iso plays. The ability to force mismatches and make teams play bigger will always have value. The issue is getting better position and making quicker decisions. Can't get the ball 20 feet from the basket and then take 12 seconds to shoot a fadeaway or make a bad pass because you didn't see the help or your teammates did not move correctly without the ball.

Sorry, but post possessions, even with mismatches do not yield efficient offensive production. It puts an extreme amount of pressure on your offense to get good numbers when posting up is a big part of it. It won't force teams to play bigger because you cannot punish average teams for playing small like you could in the 90s.

[Chinook]

Sorry, but post possessions, even with mismatches do not yield efficient offensive production. It puts an extreme amount of pressure on your offense to get good numbers when posting up is a big part of it. It won't force teams to play bigger because you cannot punish average teams for playing small like you could in the 90s.

Of course you can't. What you can't do is run a stagnant offense where you force isos in the post. The "beautiful game" offense was still initiated in the post because if you can get a big with deep position the ball it's going to be better than most other shots. It's likely thinking that midrange shots are dead because teams normally try to shoot threes. No, you still need to be able to shoot them because the threat of them is what makes iso games work. Most good offenses will run post plays as a normal part of what they do. Maybe Houston won't, but their scheme is overbred bullshit that constantly falls apart in the playoffs.

[ZeusWillJudge]

No. Bryn's man can guard him even tighter because he knows Forbes can't drive into a clogged paint. If the defender knew he didn't have backup at the rim, he'd have to also play Forbes for the drive, and that would mean a less aggressive closeout and more time for Bryn to get a clean look.


LOL. I can't believe you even said that, Chinook. First of all, every team in the league knows that Bryn will cough the ball up under any kind of ball pressure. They already know he can't drive the paint. Second, the big majority of Bryn's shots come off ball movement. Those guys aren't standing out closely guarding Forbes on the weak side. Maybe if he hits a few early they will, but mostly they're running out to him. And they can charge him hard on the perimeter, specifically because he's not much of a threat to blow past and take it to the rim.

The point was Bryn commenting about Aldridge shooting the 3, instead of clogging the paint. That benefits DDR, but it doesn't do a hell of a lot for Forbes. And RC_D was right, it was a swipe at Aldridge - especially coming from Bryn's mouth.


And before you argue about Forbes' shots (you always do), he shoots 68% of his shots either open or wide open. He shoots 64% of his shots within 2 seconds of touching the ball. And until last night, all of that was with Aldridge causing the paint to be clogged. They aren't standing out closely guarding him - they just aren't.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Of course you can't. What you can't do is run a stagnant offense where you force isos in the post. The "beautiful game" offense was still initiated in the post because if you can get a big with deep position the ball it's going to be better than most other shots.


And there's the real problem. Aldridge either can't or won't get deep position for shit. I don't know if I've ever seen him re-post closer to the basket. Tim got in and rooted for position. Aldridge is soft, or lazy, or both.

[bdictjames]

And there's the real problem. Aldridge either can't or won't get deep position for shit. I don't know if I've ever seen him re-post closer to the basket. Tim got in and rooted for position. Aldridge is soft, or lazy, or both.
Tim has a million times more ability in the post than LMA has. LMA is like a mid-range Dirk.

[tholdren]

https://twitter.com/tom_orsborn/status/1211138089730613249

Forbes throwing Aldridge under the bus :lol

Imagine somebody saying "now with Walker starting people can't just shoot over or drive past him , we don't have to help off his man and don't leave 3-point shooters wide open anymore. He can also get to the rim without getting blocked"

Lma is the reason you think forbes cant defend. When lma attempts to pick up a perimeter players man after a switch, he just sinks into the circle. No hedge, no stop ball, nothing

[ducks]

Lma has nothing to do with Forbes sucking on d

[tholdren]

Lma has nothing to do with Forbes sucking on d
He does. And it's sad you dont know why.

[Slippy]

Lma has nothing to do with Forbes sucking on d


Agree. The likes of Bryn and Marco are always a good step behind when defending. Makes its almost impossible for a big to hedge and if you did , you would be taking a gamble.

[tholdren]

Of course you can't. What you can't do is run a stagnant offense where you force isos in the post. The "beautiful game" offense was still initiated in the post because if you can get a big with deep position the ball it's going to be better than most other shots. It's likely thinking that midrange shots are dead because teams normally try to shoot threes. No, you still need to be able to shoot them because the threat of them is what makes iso games work. Most good offenses will run post plays as a normal part of what they do. Maybe Houston won't, but their scheme is overbred bullshit that constantly falls apart in the playoffs.

NBA fans are too dumb to notice this. They see scores they like it. The end.

[TDMVPDPOY]

lma PUNISHING smaller guys on the block...yeh that turn around jumpshot against midgets, yet still clanks them of the rim...fkn scrub

[timvp]

Spurs fans: "LMA and DD need to shoot more threes so the other teams don't sag off and clog the lane for everyone else!"

Bryn Forbes: "Now teams have to guard him all the way to the 3-point line instead of sagging off, clogging the lane and giving less space for everyone else."

Spurs fans: https://i.imgur.com/8fnkPAk.jpg

[exstatic]

Sorry, but post possessions, even with mismatches do not yield efficient offensive production. It puts an extreme amount of pressure on your offense to get good numbers when posting up is a big part of it. It won't force teams to play bigger because you cannot punish average teams for playing small like you could in the 90s.

The Lakers are the number one team in the West, and first in the NBA in post ups. They are 22nd in 3PA, and 19th in 3G%. They are 4th in Ortg.

[Slippy]

Bryn wants more of Lonnie. Since he the only one capable of taking advantage of all this space in the keyway. Bryn the floor spacer don't have the tools unfortunately

[itzsoweezee]

The Lakers are the number one team in the West, and first in the NBA in post ups. They are 22nd in 3PA, and 19th in 3G%. They are 4th in Ortg.

They have Anthony Davis. There are literally 4 or 5 big guys in the league worth posting up. LMA is not one of them. This is not even slightly controversial outside of popovich land

[exstatic]

They have Anthony Davis. There are literally 4 or 5 big guys in the league worth posting up. LMA is not one of them. This is not even slightly controversial outside of popovich land

LMA is probably in the top 3, since most teams have abandoned the post up.

[itzsoweezee]

His frequency of post ups is absurdly high. His points per possession .91 is not good.

In comparison, Marco's PPP on spot ups is higher than LMA in the post

[Spur4ever]

I couldn’t even read the responses cause I got sleepy just reading that long ass title

[justinandimcool]

Spurs fans: "LMA and DD need to shoot more threes so the other teams don't sag off and clog the lane for everyone else!"

Bryn Forbes: "Now teams have to guard him all the way to the 3-point line instead of sagging off, clogging the lane and giving less space for everyone else."

Spurs fans: https://i.imgur.com/8fnkPAk.jpg


lol this tbh

Forbes quote is only encouraging tbh

[Down Under]

He should be shooting 10 3s/game like KAT if he's open. Pull the opposing Centre away from the hoop to open lanes for the guards, while still getting more points per shot than mid range jumpers.

[YGWHI]

:wow

I wouldn't be shocking. What changed Bucks dynamic was Brook Lopez taking and makings 3's in 2018/19 regular season.

[JeffDuncan]

His frequency of post ups is absurdly high. His points per possession .91 is not good. ...

Show your work.

565 ÷ 447 = 1.27

[RC_Drunkford]

I wouldn't be shocking. What changed Bucks dynamic was Brook Lopez taking and makings 3's in 2018/19 regular season.

good Point Jabari. Who spell checks your articles though?

[Keepin' it real]

I'm outraged.

[itzsoweezee]

Show your work.

565 ÷ 447 = 1.27

https://stats.nba.com/players/playtype-post-up/?sort=PPP&dir=1&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*SAS&PerMode=Totals

Now show yours. I hope 447 does not equal shots in your equation

[JeffDuncan]

https://stats.nba.com/players/playtype-post-up/?sort=PPP&dir=1&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*SAS&PerMode=Totals

Now show yours. I hope 447 does not equal shots in your equation

That's what I thought you were doing, but then you claimed it wasn't a good number for LMA. That made me wonder what you were looking at. I guess you didn't notice a few things.

LMA's number is better than Giannis. It's better than Kevin Love. It's better than Jimmy Butler. It's better than Kawhi. It's equal to Blake Griffin. Etc. You didn't notice any of that?

[itzsoweezee]

That's what I thought you were doing, but then you claimed it wasn't a good number for LMA. That made me wonder what you were looking at. I guess you didn't notice a few things.

LMA's number is better than Giannis. It's better than Kevin Love. It's better than Jimmy Butler. It's better than Kawhi. It's equal to Blake Griffin. Etc. You didn't notice any of that?

So where's your work? What does 447 represent? The fact that LA's post up PPP is better than those guy's means nothing. You understand that, right? His post ups yield less than a point per possession. Bad. And post ups equal a ridiculously large percentage of LA's total possessions. That's really, really bad.

Marco's spot ups have been relatively more effective. Lol

[alpha_HaZE]

Bryn did not say anything new Pop, and Rick Carlile just said exactly that.

[Pero]

Recently from Carlisle on why the Mavs don't make Porzingis post up more (leaving aside that his ability to actually do so might be a bit suspect anyway):

“The post-up just isn’t a good play anymore... It’s a low value situation. Our numbers are very substantial that when [Porzingis] spaces the floor beyond the three point line, we’re a historically good offensive team. And when any of our guys go in there our effectiveness is diminshed exponentially.”


Mavericks’ head coach Rick Carlisle schools NBA on TNT crew on post-ups (https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2019/12/27/21038770/mavericks-head-coach-rick-carlisle-schools-nba-on-tnt-post-ups-kristaps-porzingis)

[RC_Drunkford]

Mavs have the best offense in the league, so I guess Carlisle is right

[JeffDuncan]

So where's your work? What does 447 represent? The fact that LA's post up PPP is better than those guy's means nothing. ...

You have an agenda, which causes you to misrepresent things. When it's pointed out to you that your characterization was incorrect, you claim it means nothing.

C'mon, it's okay to advocate wanting some player other than LMA without misrepresenting things. You could speak of wanting a player who's more mobile, a better passer, etc. while never having to put a false spin on any stats.

The truth is, LMA's PPP number is not bad, it is better than Giannis or Kawhi Leonard, for example. Let's try honesty for a change.

You'd prefer a different style of player. It's perfectly cool to say that. No spin needed.

What I posted was PPS, Points Per Shot (from the field.) Among high volume scorers LMA's PPS is the same as Jokic, for example. Not great, but a better than average number. It's relevant for Aldridge since he's predominantly a shooter.

[spurraider21]

Lma has nothing to do with Forbes sucking on d
you would know all about sucking on d

[ElNono]

Spurs fans: "LMA and DD need to shoot more threes so the other teams don't sag off and clog the lane for everyone else!"

Bryn Forbes: "Now teams have to guard him all the way to the 3-point line instead of sagging off, clogging the lane and giving less space for everyone else."

Spurs fans: https://i.imgur.com/8fnkPAk.jpg

Who’s Bryn Forbes and why is he quoted about anything at all?

[slick'81]

Bryn no fcks given forbes

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

what did forbes say?

[slick'81]

:lol Forbes being a lightning rod of controversy on here

[SpurPadre]

I just want Forbes to be 8th or 9th off the bench where he belongs while actual starting-caliber players reap the benefits of LMA making threes.

[RC_Drunkford]

I just want Forbes to be 8th or 9th off the bench where he belongs while actual starting-caliber players reap the benefits of LMA making threes.

We all want that, but it's hard to do when we also have Mills coming off the bench

[itzsoweezee]

You have an agenda, which causes you to misrepresent things. When it's pointed out to you that your characterization was incorrect, you claim it means nothing.

C'mon, it's okay to advocate wanting some player other than LMA without misrepresenting things. You could speak of wanting a player who's more mobile, a better passer, etc. while never having to put a false spin on any stats.

The truth is, LMA's PPP number is not bad, it is better than Giannis or Kawhi Leonard, for example. Let's try honesty for a change.

You'd prefer a different style of player. It's perfectly cool to say that. No spin needed.

What I posted was PPS, Points Per Shot (from the field.) Among high volume scorers LMA's PPS is the same as Jokic, for example. Not great, but a better than average number. It's relevant for Aldridge since he's predominantly a shooter.

You either don't understand stats or you're being purposely misleading - comparing points per shot when I provided points per possession :lol

Figure out how to compare the same thing and we can talk. Otherwise, you're a waste of time and typical of the unknowledgeable fans on this board - the kind that expected the Spurs to be contenders in the preseason.

[Spurtacular]

https://twitter.com/tom_orsborn/status/1211138089730613249

Forbes throwing Aldridge under the bus :lol

Imagine somebody saying "now with Walker starting people can't just shoot over or drive past him , we don't have to help off his man and don't leave 3-point shooters wide open anymore. He can also get to the rim without getting blocked"

Somebody should say that, tbh.

[Spurtacular]

alpha move tbh

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CanineEdibleChamois-small.gif

[JeffDuncan]

You either don't understand stats ...

Guy, you lied. You did it because you have an agenda. You were howling that LMA's PPP was bad when in fact it is not.

I pointed that out, and your response was, and is, nothing but a spew of dishonesty. You're typical of the dishonest ignoramuses on this board who post some stupidity, and when they're called on it, they try to lie their way out of it, and change the subject, and run away.

The fact is, I obviously know more about stats than you do. Like, for example, how to compare them honestly, and how to present them honestly.

As for me mentioning PPS, I did that simply because I wanted to. If you imagine that you are going to control all the subjects that get talked about, then I've got news for you, little shit head, it doesn't work that way.

You can try again, honestly this time. Or, you can affirm that you're just an ignorant, dishonest fool, and run away. What are you going to do?

[itzsoweezee]

Guy, you lied. You did it because you have an agenda. You were howling that LMA's PPP was bad when in fact it is not.

I pointed that out, and your response was, and is, nothing but a spew of dishonesty. You're typical of the dishonest ignoramuses on this board who post some stupidity, and when they're called on it, they try to lie their way out of it, and change the subject, and run away.

The fact is, I obviously know more about stats than you do. Like, for example, how to compare them honestly, and how to present them honestly.

As for me mentioning PPS, I did that simply because I wanted to. If you imagine that you are going to control all the subjects that get talked about, then I've got news for you, little shit head, it doesn't work that way.

You can try again, honestly this time. Or, you can affirm that you're just an ignorant, dishonest fool, and run away. What are you going to do?

You don't even know what is a good PPP figure and what isn't. LMA's PPP is better than giannis's therefore it is a good number. That is the extent of your logic.

Then you spewed out PPS in comparison and only admitted it when I called you on it. The only obvious conclusion is you're not smart.