Davis Bertans, Danny Green, Kawhi Leonard..Are they proof that Pop never had a system?

[apalisoc_9]

- Danny was amazing with Toronto and a starting caliber player with the 2nd best team in the NBA.

- Nephew looks even better in playoff basketball. Nephew was never this good in the playoffs.

- Davis Bertans is now one of the 5 most exciting shooter in the league


on a scale from 1 to 10...How much undeserved credit has pop's system received?

I think Pop is the GOAT but I also think coaching in Bball is vastly overrated.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

1

[Leetonidas]

Green was a dleague waiver before he got to San Antonio. So him having a resurgence is nice for him. But this dude almost won a FMVP in 2013 so definitely would not include him in this list.

Bertans pop just hated for some ridiculous reason.

Leonard is a superstar. Here or anywhere else so not sure that point matters. He may not have ever developed into what he is now if not for SA.


But at the end of the day the system is overrated and is only as good as the players playing in it tbh

[Duncan87]

That’s every good to great player. No really good or great player needs a system Did Phil really coach MJ , Shaq,or Kobe The great coaches get the not so good players to raise there game to their max potential to add to the great player. So Yes Pop is a Fukin GOD 5times went to Finals and won in the WEST

[Duncan87]

22 years of playoffs. Not PHil Not Auerbach Not Larry Brown Not Doc Not any Coach. GREG Fukin POPOVICH

[SPURt]

It’d be more fair to measure where these players were when they arrive and leave a situation. All of these players were not valued anywhere near the value they were upon leaving SA. I’d say all three are success stories from the Spurs system.

[My Fault]

Maybe it’s because you’re ignoring a big part of it, who were they before they came to the Spurs? The Spurs system helped in a lot of ways mold them into who they are today.

[Russ]

What system?

The reason Pop is so successful is that he coaches to his players' abilities and the rules -- he adapts.

He'll play through his best players' strengths whatever they may be (and develop those strengths along the way).

Pop had a defensive juggernaut in his first title and a pure shooting team in his last.

If you want to call old-fashioned basketball coaching a "system," maybe Pop had (has) one.

But to credit your original post, you're right -- Pop has no system (but not for the reasons you argue).

[R. DeMurre]

Before the Kawhi debacle, the mystique of Pop was the extreme loyalty his star players showed him. Ginobili had multiple opportunities to leave in free agency and be the centerpiece of a different team, as did Parker and Duncan. All three gave contract discounts to stay with Pop & San Antonio. In an era when stars playing their entire careers with one team was rare, the Spurs had three (ignoring Parker's one inconsequential year in Charlotte), which is pretty extraordinary. Who knows if we'll ever get the full story on what exactly went down behind the scenes with Kawhi, but even that just goes to show that managing people & their emotions/loyalties can be very difficult, even for someone who has shown success in those situations.

Phil Jackson had a similar reputation handling MJ, Pippen, Rodman, etc., but the egos/rivalries of Shaq & Kobe were too much to overcome, and then in NY he actually started getting the reputation of a guy who wasn't good at handling players because of the Carmelo situation. In retrospect though, I think most hoop historians will agree that everything he said about Carmelo was true, and Jackson saw his shortcomings more clearly than most fans, who liked him for being a scorer. But lots of younger fans who never watched the 90s Bulls or early 2000s Lakers now probably view PJ as a guy who isn't a great manager of players.

[apalisoc_9]

Green was a dleague waiver before he got to San Antonio. So him having a resurgence is nice for him. But this dude almost won a FMVP in 2013 so definitely would not include him in this list.

Bertans pop just hated for some ridiculous reason.

Leonard is a superstar. Here or anywhere else so not sure that point matters. He may not have ever developed into what he is now if not for SA.


But at the end of the day the system is overrated and is only as good as the players playing in it tbh

I'm not denying that Pop had a positive influence. im just asking if the credit Pop gets in the media is a fair assessment of his value.


I honestly dont think it is.

[james evans]

That’s every good to great player. No really good or great player needs a system Did Phil really coach MJ , Shaq,or Kobe The great coaches get the not so good players to raise there game to their max potential to add to the great player. So Yes Pop is a Fukin GOD 5times went to Finals and won in the WEST
I have been doing a lot of research on Phil Jackson reading different books, autobiographies, and we were all wrong about him for many years. Like Red Auerbach said, coaching is done in practice you don’t coach in the game. Get everything done and practice what you need to do and then in the games you relax. When you go to the film, look at the mistakes made and you work on those mistakes. Yelling and coaching during the game is an an ego boost. It’s it’s not in your brain after hours and hours of practice, you’re not gonna learn it in a 2 hour game. Coaching is more than x’s and o’s while treating your players like shit for the cameras to show u are in charge. I tell the players I train that I will never embarrass them in a game.

[Joseph Kony]

I'm not denying that Pop had a positive influence. im just asking if the credit Pop gets in the media is a fair assessment of his value.


I honestly dont think it is.
of course it isnt. but i think people are finally starting to realize that Pop cant take a team of gleague players to 50 wins, and a lot of the "system" nonsense is slowing dying down

[Sugus]

of course it isnt. but i think people are finally starting to realize that Pop cant take a team of gleague players to 50 wins, and a lot of the "system" nonsense is slowing dying down

That's a very odd bar to clear, and not very fair honestly - could any coach whatsoever bring a GL team, presumably lacking in star/talented players, to a 50w record which would mean absolute beatdowns of bottom dwellers but also wins over top teams in the league? It's a flawed premise. Coaching alone simply cannot overcome the physical and talent disparity that rightly separates a league from the other.

I don't think failing to meet this unrealistic standard is a slight on Pop or his system. In fact, last season was an excellent coaching job; that team had no business winning 48 games with a heavy ISO, mid-range, old-fashioned offense and no true stars. Still took the 2 seed to 7 games.

At this point it just looks like Pop haters trying to move the goalpost on what achievement Pop has to get to be considered good - oh, so you won 5 rings? Sure, but could you even make the PO without those HoF stars carrying you? Oh you made them, but could you even take a G-L team to 50 wins? And so on.... :rolleyes

[cool cat]

Bertans has had his volume increased a bunch but isn't on a playoff team so who cares. Outside his 3pt shooting all his other stats are the same as last year per 36.

[RC_Drunkford]

Pop has a good system. It's far better than let's say D'Antoni's system. Even coach Bud's system is not better than Pop's, he just got better players at the moment. Pop gets more out of those other guys, the role players. His stars usually underachieve a little compared to the rest of the league, but even that is not really a problem. I think every star player the Spurs ever had had the best efficiency of his career playing for Pop. From nephew, to Aldridge and now DeRozan. His defensive system has also been very efficient until last season.

The main problem with Pop is that he's too confident in himself. He almost never adjusts or does it when it's too late, usually in a close out game. He overcoaches a lot. That's why he gets in players heads a lot and then guys are out there scared to make mistakes or passing up shots. He thinks he can fix everything with coaching or that it's an effort issue and guys just have to execute the things better that he tells them to do. That just doesn't work with players like Forbes, Belinelli, etc. who lack skill and physical ability. The worst thing is his favoritism. He lives and dies with his pets and always has. He just doesn't see it.

You also gotta factor in that Pop lacks experience in some type of way. Yes he's coached for 24 years and is an experienced coach, but he had Duncan for 19 years. He had Parker and Ginobili for almost the same amount of time. He basically always had the same core of players, so Pop only knows how to handle players one way, like he always did. That's what makes it hard for him to adjust.

The media gives him way too much credit. It's never the players, it's always Pop. That's just hearsay to me at this point

[RC_Drunkford]

That's a very odd bar to clear, and not very fair honestly - could any coach whatsoever bring a GL team, presumably lacking in star/talented players, to a 50w record which would mean absolute beatdowns of bottom dwellers but also wins over top teams in the league? It's a flawed premise. Coaching alone simply cannot overcome the physical and talent disparity that rightly separates a league from the other.

I don't think failing to meet this unrealistic standard is a slight on Pop or his system. In fact, last season was an excellent coaching job; that team had no business winning 48 games with a heavy ISO, mid-range, old-fashioned offense and no true stars. Still took the 2 seed to 7 games.

At this point it just looks like Pop haters trying to move the goalpost on what achievement Pop has to get to be considered good - oh, so you won 5 rings? Sure, but could you even make the PO without those HoF stars carrying you? Oh you made them, but could you even take a G-L team to 50 wins? And so on.... :rolleyes

that team won 1 game more than a roster with Aldridge as the lone star. When you add DeRozan you should expect a bigger jump. You also gotta factor in that it's Pop who builds the roster. So that blame falls on him too

[JeffDuncan]

Bertans has had his volume increased a bunch but isn't on a playoff team so who cares. Outside his 3pt shooting all his other stats are the same as last year per 36.

No, his other per-36 stats are not the same.

Points, up by more than 5.
Field goal attempts, up by 3.7.
The above is not entirely 3pt shots.
His 2pt attempts are up by about 1/3 over last season.

[EasyMoney]

Davis and Danny wouldnt even be in the league if it weren't for the Spurs.

[daslicer]

that team won 1 game more than a roster with Aldridge as the lone star. When you add DeRozan you should expect a bigger jump. You also gotta factor in that it's Pop who builds the roster. So that blame falls on him too

Agreed. The Spurs are probably one of the few teams that has two players who are averaging 20 points a game but still have a losing record. Aldridge is at 19 but I round it up to 20.

[Joseph Kony]

That's a very odd bar to clear, and not very fair honestly - could any coach whatsoever bring a GL team, presumably lacking in star/talented players, to a 50w record which would mean absolute beatdowns of bottom dwellers but also wins over top teams in the league? It's a flawed premise. Coaching alone simply cannot overcome the physical and talent disparity that rightly separates a league from the other.

I don't think failing to meet this unrealistic standard is a slight on Pop or his system. In fact, last season was an excellent coaching job; that team had no business winning 48 games with a heavy ISO, mid-range, old-fashioned offense and no true stars. Still took the 2 seed to 7 games.

At this point it just looks like Pop haters trying to move the goalpost on what achievement Pop has to get to be considered good - oh, so you won 5 rings? Sure, but could you even make the PO without those HoF stars carrying you? Oh you made them, but could you even take a G-L team to 50 wins? And so on.... :rolleyes

Lol what a retarded response. you clearly did not get the point

[apalisoc_9]

Davis and Danny wouldnt even be in the league if it weren't for the Spurs.

:lmao

[cool cat]

No, his other per-36 stats are not the same.

Points, up by more than 5.
Field goal attempts, up by 3.7.
The above is not entirely 3pt shots.
His 2pt attempts are up by about 1/3 over last season

Field goal % is down
2pt % is down
Ast is down
Dreb is down
Steal is same
Blk is lower then his average.
He is up about 1/2 rebound on Oreb.

[RC_Drunkford]

Field goal % is down
2pt % is down
Ast is down
Dreb is down
Steal is same
Blk is lower then his average.
He is up about 1/2 rebound on Oreb.

so in other words: He just shoots more shots

[bdictjames]

Cory Joseph
George Hill
Aron Baynes
Danny Green
Dewayne Dedmon

Even Rudy Gay

Pop and the Spurs' staff have developed these players to outperform their projections. A product of the discipline and training in the Spurs' system.

[313]

22 years of playoffs. Not PHil Not Auerbach Not Larry Brown Not Doc Not any Coach. GREG Fukin POPOVICH
.

[313]

Pop's system yielded the greatest consistency seen in any sport. Sure the peaks weren't as high, but the lows haven't been as low as franchises that have peaked higher. The baseline of 5 chips, and 50+ wins, is ridiculous in a league where dynasties have only lasted 3-4 years continuously since the 90s.

[Chinook]

Cory Joseph
George Hill
Aron Baynes
Danny Green
Dewayne Dedmon

Even Rudy Gay

Pop and the Spurs' staff have developed these players to outperform their projections. A product of the discipline and training in the Spurs' system.

No. The Spurs helped those guys develop, but the benefit is that they were able to scout those guys well and get them into their club. All of those guys would have had NBA careers without the Spurs. That doesn't take credit from SA. It just clarifies what they get credit for. They were able to find the gold in the pile of crap earlier than a lot of teams. They didn't take crap and turn it into gold, and a lot of people seem to think they did.

[dbestpro]

The Spurs system wall about the good to great shot. This idea does not exist with the current team.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

I mean obviously the Spurs have a system. Every team does. It's just that the league has caught up to it and copied it all together. I mean Steve Kerr literally studied Pop and asked him questions about his system to use for the Golden St Warriors. But as we've seen, you need players to play. I think the narrative that Pop can drag a team of scrubs to the playoffs by himself is what has been proven. Not that he doesn't have a system

[apalisoc_9]

Pop's system yielded the greatest consistency seen in any sport. Sure the peaks weren't as high, but the lows haven't been as low as franchises that have peaked higher. The baseline of 5 chips, and 50+ wins, is ridiculous in a league where dynasties have only lasted 3-4 years continuously since the 90s.

tim tony manu kawhi

no 50 since whi left