Article: Should The Spurs Actually Try To Make The Playoffs?

[cd021]

https://www.spurstalk.com/should-san-antonio-spurs-even-try-make-payoffs/

The Gist: Yes

[DPG21920]

Thanks for the write up. I disagree. There is absolutely zero pride in making the playoffs with a losing record. Not with a team that features 2 max players. Also, the litmus test should be: are you willing to invest in this team to actually give yourself a chance to compete.

At this point, that answer appears to be a resounding “NO” so that should tell you which direction they should take things.

[cd021]

Thanks for the write up. I disagree. There is absolutely zero pride in making the playoffs with a losing record. Not with a team that features 2 max players. Also, the litmus test should be: are you willing to invest in this team to actually give yourself a chance to compete.

At this point, that answer appears to be a resounding “NO” so that should tell you which direction they should take things.

Basically my view is that the Spurs missing the playoffs vs making the playoffs comes down to the incentive. The incentive being draft picks. Missing would land the Spurs around the 14th pick while making it would land the Spurs 15-17. That difference isn't worth missing the playoffs for the first time in 23 years.

Either way, the Spurs could be a lot better next season by building on Aldridge's shooting, DeMar playing like he is, Murray continuing to improve his shot and replacing Forbes with Walker.

Spurs don't necessarily need to invest in this team, more like ride it out while maximizing it's ceiling. If DDR opts in, then Gay, DDR, LMA, and Mills will become free agents after next season. The Spurs can retool then.

[TD 21]

Basically my view is that the Spurs missing the playoffs vs making the playoffs comes down to the incentive. The incentive being draft picks. Missing would land the Spurs around the 14th pick while making it would land the Spurs 15-17. That difference isn't worth missing the playoffs for the first time in 23 years.

Either way, the Spurs could be a lot better next season by building on Aldridge's shooting, DeMar playing like he is, Murray continuing to improve his shot and replacing Forbes with Walker.

Spurs don't necessarily need to invest in this team, more like ride it out while maximizing it's ceiling. If DDR opts in, then Gay, DDR, LMA, and Mills will become free agents after next season. The Spurs can retool then.

This was clearly their plan from the jump and it hasn't changed. It obviously hinges on DeRozan's willingness to opt in because the (pseudo) competitiveness part is covered through at least this season considering how weak the middle - bottom of the West is.

If he doesn't play along, they'll have to trade him after this season, which could facilitate Aldridge and Gay wanting out too.

[slick'81]

Spurs don't necessarily need to invest in this team, more like ride it out while maximizing it's ceiling. If DDR opts in, then Gay, DDR, LMA, and Mills will become free agents after next season. The Spurs can retool then.


Doesnt matter what we want but pop is riding this core until their contracts expire. Although i dont see this team improving much next season unless white/walker or murray take a huge jump

[Obi Juan Kenobi]

Blow it all up and play the youngsters...

[TimDunkem]

Doesnt matter what we want but pop is riding this core until their contracts expire. Although i dont see this team improving much next season unless white/walker or murray take a huge jump

Why do I envision the Spurs resigning all of those guys instead of retooling?

[slick'81]

Why do I envision the Spurs resigning all of those guys instead of retooling?

because you know mills will stay as long as pop is alive. As for a 32&36 y/o derozan and Aldridge?Sours wil probably find a way to keep the ol vets too

[ZeusWillJudge]

So we all agree that unless something changes drastically, the Spurs aren't going to challenge for the LOB, or even the WCF this season... right? So the biggest consideration should be the long term success of the team. What is the best/quickest way for the Spurs to get back into contention?

So the only real questions to me are:
1. Would making the playoffs and a first round exit really do anything to further the Spurs' long term success. I know people like to talk about "winning culture", etc. but the real answer to that is "no".
2. While there isn't much difference between, say, the 13th pick and the 16th pick, if the Spurs pulled the plug on the first round exit, could they do significantly better than the 16th pick?
3. Since next year's draft doesn't look deep, could the Spurs do anything through a trade that would secure a better pick in 20/21?

You say to trust the Spurs' FO to get the best pick available at the 15,16,17 pick. I don't have a problem with that. But what it leaves out is that the best player available at 7 or 8 would almost certainly be better. Very possibly a lot better. Hell, the best player available at the 30th pick might be better than everyone else on the board, but that doesn't count for much.

One thing is for certain. Half measures are the worst possible thing. If they're going with a "win now" strategy, they need to commit to it. If they're going to use the draft and trades to build for the near future, they need to commit to that. I think there are a lot of fans in love with the idea of holding the playoff record. I get it, that's what fans do. I really, really hope that PATFO aren't thinking that way, because it won't do a thing to bring more talent, or wins, to next year's team. A #8 pick might.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Either way, the Spurs could be a lot better next season by building on Aldridge's shooting, DeMar playing like he is, Murray continuing to improve his shot and replacing Forbes with Walker.


See, to me that's just not the right question. The real question is whether they could have all those things AND a 7-8 pick, and be better still.

[timtonymanu]

They can try but they also have to hope the Thunder and Grizzlies don’t continue trending upward like they have. That’s basically the only two teams in their way and I don’t see them getting higher than the 7th seed again. Currently this team isn’t in good position to make the playoffs or tank, just a 9th seed ceiling. They have to put on a solid win streak.

[dbestpro]

Spurs trying to make playoffs equals Pop resigning.

[ZeusWillJudge]

See, to me that's just not the right question. The real question is whether they could have all those things AND a 7-8 pick, and be better still.


Maybe that's not the right question either. How about, "Is pop actually trying to make the playoffs?"

[Thomas82]

Blow it all up and play the youngsters...

+1

[JeffDuncan]

https://www.spurstalk.com/should-san-antonio-spurs-even-try-make-payoffs/

The Gist: Yes

You left out the money. That's a serious omission where a business is concerned.

Take the average Spurs ticket price (which would be higher for the playoffs) multiply it by 18,000 and then by 2 (for a minimum of 2 home games,) and see what you get. Add concession and souvenir sales. Then, for the community, add hotel room rentals, car rentals, restaurant meals and tips, etc. Notice anything? That's a pretty substantial amount of money.

But the thought doesn't seem to cross anybody's mind that money could matter to a business, or to a community. Must be a bunch of Bernie Sanders voters. Lol

[Phenomanul]

Parking lot money too.

[Phenomanul]

A typical Spurs playoff game boosts the team’s Revenue by ~2.5 million $USD. It isn’t chump change.

[Death In June]

You really have to hope they stop winning every other game. If they can just land themselves in another 6-7 game losing streak, they're back in the conversation for a good pick. Right now, they're in the worst spot they could be in. Just behind a playoff berth, and too far ahead for a meaningful return on their failure.

[cd021]

See, to me that's just not the right question. The real question is whether they could have all those things AND a 7-8 pick, and be better still.

I've thought about that, and wrote about it in the tear-down article I did a while ago. The Spurs were 7-14 at the time and, historically, the 8th seed in the west would win at least 48 games. Since then, however, it's looking increasingly likely that the 8th seed will be below 500.

The Spurs still have a great chance of making the playoffs and are going to be in the mix come the trade deadline. It's hard to see a team who's only missed the playoffs twice in 30 seasons, punting and tanking when there is a pretty good chance that they'll get the 8th seed.

Picks in the 15-17 range aren't unvaluable, especially to the Spurs. Having that and extending their streak is probably the best and most realistic outcome, at this point.

[cd021]

You left out the money. That's a serious omission where a business is concerned.

Take the average Spurs ticket price (which would be higher for the playoffs) multiply it by 18,000 and then by 2 (for a minimum of 2 home games,) and see what you get. Add concession and souvenir sales. Then, for the community, add hotel room rentals, car rentals, restaurant meals and tips, etc. Notice anything? That's a pretty substantial amount of money.

But the thought doesn't seem to cross anybody's mind that money could matter to a business, or to a community. Must be a bunch of Bernie Sanders voters. Lol

I actually did consider adding that in, but the article was running long as is. Normally two home games in the playoffs can add up to 3 million dollars in revenue, iirc.

That's not nothing, and if the Spurs were able to make it a competitive series, then they'd get another game at home and another 1.5 million in revenue.

[Proxy]

I mean...... just go for the playoff streak record, this is the last season

[itzsoweezee]

Basically my view is that the Spurs missing the playoffs vs making the playoffs comes down to the incentive. The incentive being draft picks. Missing would land the Spurs around the 14th pick while making it would land the Spurs 15-17. That difference isn't worth missing the playoffs for the first time in 23 years.

Either way, the Spurs could be a lot better next season by building on Aldridge's shooting, DeMar playing like he is, Murray continuing to improve his shot and replacing Forbes with Walker.

Spurs don't necessarily need to invest in this team, more like ride it out while maximizing it's ceiling. If DDR opts in, then Gay, DDR, LMA, and Mills will become free agents after next season. The Spurs can retool then.

I can't imagine 3 straight seasons of watching these shitty lineups

[JuneJive]

The difference between them making or missing the playoffs is what, 4-5 spots in the draft?

Tough one, but if they are not trading LMA / DeMar then playoffs it is.

[Brazil]

I mean...... just go for the playoff streak record, this is the last season

agree, too late to tank anyway

[ZeusWillJudge]

I've thought about that, and wrote about it in the tear-down article I did a while ago. The Spurs were 7-14 at the time and, historically, the 8th seed in the west would win at least 48 games. Since then, however, it's looking increasingly likely that the 8th seed will be below 500.

The Spurs still have a great chance of making the playoffs and are going to be in the mix come the trade deadline. It's hard to see a team who's only missed the playoffs twice in 30 seasons, punting and tanking when there is a pretty good chance that they'll get the 8th seed.

Picks in the 15-17 range aren't unvaluable, especially to the Spurs. Having that and extending their streak is probably the best and most realistic outcome, at this point.


I don't want to argue with you. You and I are on opposite sides, but you're willing to state your case and let me state mine, and that's good enough. You're taking time to write articles, and that gives us something to talk about other than Marco. :tu

Here's what I see: The Spurs are now 5 games out of 7th place and 3 games out of 14th place. (The Dubs have a lock on last place in the West.) I'm used to the aggravation of the Spurs losing this season. But if they are going to lose, I want them to lose with a purpose. Play the young guys who are the future, get them the experience they need to get better. And get a draft pick that is high enough to bring in some exceptional talent. You're right - picks in the 15-17 range aren't unvaluable. But everyone available at 15 was available at 7 - not the other way around.

The thing that separates you and me is that you see that playoff record as a purpose for the season, and I don't. That's not basketball analysis, it's just personal values. If I valued asterisks in the record book, I'd be saying the exact same things you are. To me, the idea of squeezing into the record book with a sub-.500 record isn't a mark of team excellence. There's probably no way to reconcile that.

https://clutchpoints.com/10-teams-tanked-nba-seasons-leading-franchise-players/

https://towardsdatascience.com/what-are-the-odds-a-statistical-analysis-of-tanking-in-the-nba-2c5fe228cd67

[ZeusWillJudge]

You left out the money. That's a serious omission where a business is concerned.




You're absolutely right about the value of home playoff games. But that is small change for team ownership, compared to the value of the franchise. The Cavs valuation was down 4% this year. The Spurs valuation was up 5% this year. The Bucks were up 26%, and the shitty Pelicans were up 22%. You fancy yourself a businessman - which is worse - missing out on $1M in short term revenues, or missing out on $80M in long term team value? (That's the difference in an extra 5% in team valuation for the Spurs at their current $1.6B value.)

There's nothing worse for a business, especially for a sports team, than a long slow decline from lack of interest. Especially a small market team. Excitement sells tickets. It doesn't have to be a Zion Williamson. Take someone like Jamal Murray who went at 7 or 8 a couple of drafts ago, and put him in this roster in place of the current starting SG. I guarantee you the team wouldn't be scraping the bottom of the barrel for enough wins to squeeze into the playoffs with a sub-.500 record. Derek White may have been the best player available at 29 when he was drafted. But Donovan Mitchel went 13th. You just can't overvalue the talent concentrated toward the top of a draft.

Nobody here is excited about this team, this year. Maybe some really believe in their long term prospects, but nobody is excited about this season. People here love to argue, so I'm sure some jackass will say they are. But nobody is. From a financial perspective, nothing could be better for this team than drafting a really high-quality draft pick who could hit the floor in his first season. Personally I think more people would be excited about seeing them lose with guys like Keldon and Spoon than what's currently on the floor. I know I would, if for no other reason than I could see some light at the end of the tunnel.

[Harry Callahan]

There is NO CHANCE of being a threat in the playoffs. 23 straight playoff seasons is a wonderful record and will won't be matched in my lifetime, but being a middle of the pack team will drain local enthusiasm and ticket sales over time.

I really don't want to see a Cowboys like mediocrity for the Spurs. That is the worst situation. A can stomach a rebuild for awhile if the right pieces get put together. The Spurs don't have the luxury of being horrible at building or rebuilding a team and still ending up with Lebrick, AD and the best record in the conference which is the case with the LAL. All of the ballyhooed LAL lotto picks are gone from the team from only a 5 or 6 year window of having a crappy team and the resulting high picks.

[ZeusWillJudge]

There is NO CHANCE of being a threat in the playoffs. 23 straight playoff seasons is a wonderful record and will won't be matched in my lifetime, but being a middle of the pack team will drain local enthusiasm and ticket sales over time.

I really don't want to see a Cowboys like mediocrity for the Spurs. That is the worst situation. A can stomach a rebuild for awhile if the right pieces get put together. The Spurs don't have the luxury of being horrible at building or rebuilding a team and still ending up with Lebrick, AD and the best record in the conference which is the case with the LAL. All of the ballyhooed LAL lotto picks are gone from the team from only a 5 or 6 year window of having a crappy team and the resulting high picks.

100%. The Lakers can afford to be sloppy. The Spurs can't. Right now, the Spurs are being sloppy.

I'm going to say one last thing in this thread, and then leave it for the record-chasers:

In 2007, Golden State squeezed into the playoffs with a 42-40 record, and pulled off a HUGE upset by beating the Mavs in the first round.
In 2009 they compiled a dismal 31-51 record, and drafted Steph Curry in the offseason. (With the 7th pick.)


Which thing do you think did more for the franchise?

[tbdog]

Warriors drafted Anthony Randolf at 14 the year before. The year after Curry, they drafted Udoh at 6. The year Curry was drafted, Twolves drafted two pgs before Curry. Spurs traded an established player in Hill, who was selected at 26 for Leonard. The point is, tanking only increases your luck. Teams have been in the pits for years and only briefly breathe the playoffs before it crashes down on them.

[widowmaker]

NO. Time has run out for this team to gel. Even if they make it on the 8 seed they will get eliminated by whoever owns the 1 seed and end up in a garbage spot in the draft next year. Take the L’s and try to end up in the top 10 draft.

P.S. might as well move aldridge and derozen for something useful.

[JeffDuncan]

You're absolutely right about the value of home playoff games. But that is small change for team ownership, ...


According to you, a few million bucks is "small change," you say. Not to get personal, but what is your current bank balance, which makes a few million look like small change to you?

Are you sure that's what the ownership would say? Why do you think so?



... You fancy yourself a businessman - ...


I merely fancy myself as a person who is not oblivious to reality, as if the Spurs were an amateur club or a video game. They are neither, altho that's how many around here talk about them.


... which is worse - missing out on $1M in short term revenues, or missing out on $80M in long term team value? ...


Who is the player you have your eye on, in this year's draft, who offers that magnitude of value? Name him. Seriously, no foolin'. Name him.

Or is it only your idea that the difference between pick 17 and pick 7, in any draft, is always worth that much? What data do you have to support that idea?


... (That's the difference in an extra 5% in team valuation for the Spurs at their current $1.6B value.)


Again, name the player in this year's draft who you think is worth 5% of the team's total value.


... Take someone like Jamal Murray who went at 7 or 8 a couple of drafts ago, and put him in this roster in place of the current starting SG. ...


Who's the "Jamal Murray" in this year's draft? The name, please.



... But Donovan Mitchel went 13th. ...


Who's the "Donovan Mitchell" in this year's draft? The name, please.



You just can't overvalue the talent concentrated toward the top of a draft.


You don't think that, oh, Markelle Fultz and Anthony Bennett, to give a couple examples, were overvalued? I'm inclined to think they were. Speaking as if it's a sure thing does not correspond to reality.



Nobody here is excited about this team, this year. ...


Is anybody excited about the draft this year? That's more to the point.


From a financial perspective, nothing could be better for this team than drafting a really high-quality draft pick who could hit the floor in his first season. ...


Sounds lovely. Name that player. Who, in this year's draft, qualifies?

You want to look on the bright side, which is commendable, but there is also a darker side to ponder. The Spurs have not always been lucky, and there's no basis to think they'll always be lucky in the future. So, very well, the Spurs miss the playoffs, get a high pick, and draft what they hope will be Tim Duncan II, or at least some kind of a rough imitation. However, after a while they discover they've drafted Dewayne Dedmon II. For that, they skipped the playoffs.

The problem is, it could happen. In any draft, at any pick, you're much more likely to get a Dedmon than a Duncan, because there are so many more of them. It isn't worth skipping the playoffs intentionally to try to play that game instead.

[JeffDuncan]

NO. Time has run out for this team to gel. Even if they make it on the 8 seed they will get eliminated by whoever owns the 1 seed and end up in a garbage spot in the draft next year. Take the L’s and try to end up in the top 10 draft.
...


But, to draft what player? Name him. Or name a few players, in this year's draft, who'd be worth missing the playoffs to get.

[TD 21]

But, to draft what player? Name him. Or name a few players, in this year's draft, who'd be worth missing the playoffs to get.

It looks that way now, but you never know. There's plenty examples of high picks (and others) turning out significantly better than expected.

What's so appealing about trying to squeak into the playoffs only to get emasculated by an L.A. team?

[JeffDuncan]

It looks that way now, but you never know. There's plenty examples of high picks (and others) turning out significantly better than expected.

What's so appealing about trying to squeak into the playoffs only to get emasculated by an L.A. team?

The money.

[TD 21]

The money.

That's a shortsighted way to look at it because in the long run, by continuing to delay the inevitable, they're actually lose money when a long playoff drought sets in.

[JeffDuncan]

That's a shortsighted way to look at it because in the long run, by continuing to delay the inevitable, they're actually lose money when a long playoff drought sets in.

Sure, businesses that care about money are so terribly short sighted. They should all be more like the government of California, or Venezuela.

Name the player you see in this year's draft who's a difference maker. Don't just blather foolish abstractions and pure speculations.

Name him.

[TD 21]

Sure, businesses that care about money are so terribly short sighted. They should all be more like the government of California, or Venezuela.

Name the player you see in this year's draft who's a difference maker. Don't just blather foolish abstractions and pure speculations.

Name him.

There's also a good chance they don't make it. It's not like they have the inside track. If it were that simple, ever franchise would operate like this. The reason most don't, is because they realize it's penny wise, pound foolish.

I'm not going to pretend to. I'm jut saying, just because there doesn't appear to be a franchise player, you can't make that assumption more than 5 months before a bunch of mostly 19-20 years are even drafted.

Westbrook, Harden, Curry, Lillard, Towns, Doncic, are all relatively recent examples of high picks who turned out significantly better than expected.

[JeffDuncan]

... you can't make that assumption more than 5 months before a bunch of mostly 19-20 years are even drafted.


Except, you are. You're making the assumption that one of them, at least, is worth skipping the playoffs for.

Why do you think so? Especially since you can't name even one possibility, why do you think so?

[phxspurfan]

This was clearly their plan from the jump and it hasn't changed. It obviously hinges on DeRozan's willingness to opt in because the (pseudo) competitiveness part is covered through at least this season considering how weak the middle - bottom of the West is.

If he doesn't play along, they'll have to trade him after this season, which could facilitate Aldridge and Gay wanting out too.


Gay isn’t really a player to build around, he’s basically replacement level if not worse.

[sasaint]

Maybe that's not the right question either. How about, "Is pop actually trying to make the playoffs?"

I think Pop is trying to eat his cake and have it, too. He's trying to slip into the 8th playoff spot with the worst record possible in order to preserve the streak and get the highest draft pick he can, still making the payoffs. That's all I can surmise from his confounding coaching this season. Those horrible rotations and continuing to play - much less start Bryn... He is trying to chart a very narrow course.

[ZeusWillJudge]

I think Pop is trying to eat his cake and have it, too. He's trying to slip into the 8th playoff spot with the worst record possible in order to preserve the streak and get the highest draft pick he can, still making the payoffs. That's all I can surmise from his confounding coaching this season. Those horrible rotations and continuing to play - much less start Bryn... He is trying to chart a very narrow course.


That's as good of a guess as any. This is the damnedest season I can remember. You would think he would try something different, just because this isn't working. This season is half over.

[TD 21]

Except, you are. You're making the assumption that one of them, at least, is worth skipping the playoffs for.

Why do you think so? Especially since you can't name even one possibility, why do you think so?

No, you are based on projections from others on a bunch of 18-19 year olds.

Prior history. Doesn't mean it'll repeat itself this year obviously, but it could.



Gay isn’t really a player to build around, he’s basically replacement level if not worse.

Didn't say he was.

[widowmaker]

But, to draft what player? Name him. Or name a few players, in this year's draft, who'd be worth missing the playoffs to get.

Yeah i have no specific player in mind but some of the other posters have responded to you and i share the same take on the whole making the playoffs issue. Take a gamble in the draft and hopefully they find a player that can become something special. Making the playoffs this year just to get bounced in the first round is not gonna do anything to progress the team.

[sasaint]

Sure, businesses that care about money are so terribly short sighted. They should all be more like the government of California, or Venezuela.

Name the player you see in this year's draft who's a difference maker. Don't just blather foolish abstractions and pure speculations.

Name him.

You are obviously right to focus on prospects available in this draft rather than generalized draft statistics. Asking other posters what player they would target in this draft really puts a fine point on the debate/issue. The scuttlebutt is everywhere that this draft may be Anthony Bennett weak. If it is, we need to package our pick with a player/players and make some noise before the trade deadline. I personally don't know much about this year's draft class. Do you? Do you personally think this is a weak draft? If you were on the other side of your argument, is there any player that you would target in the high lottery? Just curious...

[widowmaker]

But, to draft what player? Name him. Or name a few players, in this year's draft, who'd be worth missing the playoffs to get.

Yeah i have no specific player in mind but some of the other posters have responded to you and i share the same take on the whole making the playoffs issue. Take a gamble in the draft and hopefully they find a player that can become something special. Making the playoffs this year just to get bounced in the first round is not gonna do anything to progress the team.

[sasaint]

That's as good of a guess as any. This is the damnedest season I can remember. You would think he would try something different, just because this isn't working. This season is half over.

Tanking is totally a coaching strategy. The NBA ain't "On the Waterfront;" Pop doesn't go into the locker room before a game and tell the players, "Tonight ain't your night. Take the fall." If a player/players obviously dog it and get caught (and historically they have) it's called point shaving and that's a crime. But it is almost impossible to show that a coach made particular strategic/personnel decisions that were intended to lose games. Pop may actually be executing a masterful semi-tank. I just believe that despite some shitty recent personnel moves the Spurs have enough talent that, if it had been maximized, we would have several more wins under our belt. On the other hand, but for a handful of really impressive outings, we would be completely out of the running and ensconced in 14th place in the West. So, yeah, it is easily the damndest season I can remember for any team in any sport that I follow. Yet, I thoroughly expect PATFO to stand pat at the deadline and stay this absolutely bizarre course.

Btw, I am surprised, as recognized as the strategy is in the NBA, that the Feds haven't launched a full-scale investigation of tanking in the NBA. I wonder what Vegas thinks of load management...

[JeffDuncan]

I think Pop is trying to eat his cake and have it, too. He's trying to slip into the 8th playoff spot with the worst record possible in order to preserve the streak and get the highest draft pick he can, still making the payoffs. ...


I think you're giving Pop way way too much credit. He is not that smart. The reason why he's doing what he's doing, is that he doesn't know what else to do, with that roster that he, himself, played such a large role in creating.

[ZeusWillJudge]

You are obviously right to focus on prospects available in this draft rather than generalized draft statistics. Asking other posters what player they would target in this draft really puts a fine point on the debate/issue. The scuttlebutt is everywhere that this draft may be Anthony Bennett weak. If it is, we need to package our pick with a player/players and make some noise before the trade deadline. I personally don't know much about this year's draft class. Do you? Do you personally think this is a weak draft? If you were on the other side of your argument, is there any player that you would target in the high lottery? Just curious...


There's nothing "generalized" about the top 6-7 slots constantly generating much better players overall. There will always be dumbshit FO's who pick the Greg Oden's of the draft. But if PATFO are really as good at drafting as people claim, then they should damn near have a lock on a top-tier player if they ever pick that high. (No, I didn't say franchise player, although their chances are much better high than low.)

It might help if some of you watched any college ball. Cole Anthony (son of Greg Anthony) is going to be an NBA baller. He had knee surgery, but I'm still pretty confident he'll still declare this year. He may fall a few slots, but not far enough for the Spurs to get him at 16 or whatever. Anthony Davis will be logging NBA minutes next season. Lamelo Ball too, even though he was playing in Australia, not NCAA, and now he's hurt. (People here will bash him because of the family.)

I've been a Maccabi fan since I lived and worked over there for a while. They have a kid named Deni Avdija who has a shot at being a good NBA player. If he declares this year he may be within the Spurs' grasp. I thought Aaron Nesmith might be a Spurs fit in that 16-17 range, until he got injured. But guys like that are dart-throws. It's a totally different thing picking at 7 or higher, in any draft.
It's the density of good players that make the statistics.

[Ignazzz]

This draft is very weak.

[tbdog]

Even drafting well doesn't guarantee anything. Injuries can derail a player and a team. Pelicans drafted AD and got the second round once before losing him. The Spurs are not in a cap whole where they need to gut their team. Cap opens up after next season.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Even drafting well doesn't guarantee anything. Injuries can derail a player and a team. Pelicans drafted AD and got the second round once before losing him. The Spurs are not in a cap whole where they need to gut their team. Cap opens up after next season.

Even after this season, if DDR opts out. They only have about $85 mil guaranteed, excluding cap holds, new rookies, etc.

[John B]

Outside of Lakers and Clippers (and Spurs have beaten the Clippers once), I think Spurs can beat anybody in a 7 series IF they play right and I mean all the planets aligned. Lakers, Clippers are one injury away from being beatable. Who knows what happen in the playoffs? I like Spurs to make the playoffs for the young players, Murray, White, Lonnie, Poeltl. They need to experience that for their development. I don’t believe in tanking, because Spurs already have a great young group, with Keldon, WSpoon and Samanic (maybe not next year) coming, plus whoever Spurs get 19, 49? Spurs would be so much better next year with another year under their belt. Lonnie will be a stud. They all would just benefit from the playoff experience. So yeah.

[sasaint]

There's nothing "generalized" about the top 6-7 slots constantly generating much better players overall. There will always be dumbshit FO's who pick the Greg Oden's of the draft. But if PATFO are really as good at drafting as people claim, then they should damn near have a lock on a top-tier player if they ever pick that high. (No, I didn't say franchise player, although their chances are much better high than low.)

It might help if some of you watched any college ball. Cole Anthony (son of Greg Anthony) is going to be an NBA baller. He had knee surgery, but I'm still pretty confident he'll still declare this year. He may fall a few slots, but not far enough for the Spurs to get him at 16 or whatever. Anthony Davis will be logging NBA minutes next season. Lamelo Ball too, even though he was playing in Australia, not NCAA, and now he's hurt. (People here will bash him because of the family.)

I've been a Maccabi fan since I lived and worked over there for a while. They have a kid named Deni Avdija who has a shot at being a good NBA player. If he declares this year he may be within the Spurs' grasp. I thought Aaron Nesmith might be a Spurs fit in that 16-17 range, until he got injured. But guys like that are dart-throws. It's a totally different thing picking at 7 or higher, in any draft.
It's the density of good players that make the statistics.

Yeah, I admitted that I haven’t been watching college ball much this season. So, thanks for some personal intel on a few players. I think the Spurs’ boring, bizarre mess of a team has dampened my enthusiasm for BB in general this season. I only see two possibilities: Pop will continue on this current enervating course featuring the Tired Trio or he will make a disastrous personnel move such as over-paying Brent to a longer deal or getting fleeced in some dumb trade for an aging dinosaur to sabotage the team for the next coach. It’s too depressing to put a whole lot of energy into the Spurs right now.

[tbdog]

Even after this season, if DDR opts out. They only have about $85 mil guaranteed, excluding cap holds, new rookies, etc.

Are you sure? I can only see about 20mil in cap space if DD leaves. Poeltl cap hold is 11mil as well, which brings that number down another 5mil.

[wildbill2u]

Do you remember the scene in the original Brothers in Law where Alan Arkin and Peter Falk are about to be executed and Arkin asks, "What's Plan B?" and Falk replies, "There is no Plan B"

Well, I don't know why I came here tonight
I got the feeling that something ain't right
I'm so scared in case I fall off my chair
And I'm wondering how I'll get down the stairs

[Chorus]
Clowns to the left of me
Jokers to the right (https://genius.com/Stealers-wheel-stuck-in-the-middle-with-you-lyrics#note-15615898)
Here I am
Stuck in the middle with you

[Verse 2]
Yes, I'm stuck in the middle with you
And I'm wondering what it is I should do
It's so hard to keep this smile from my face
Losing control, yeah, I'm all over the place

[Chorus]
Clowns to the left of me
Jokers to the right (https://genius.com/Stealers-wheel-stuck-in-the-middle-with-you-lyrics#note-15615898)
Here I am
Stuck in the middle with you

[Post-Chorus]
Well, you started out with nothing
And you're proud that you're a self-made man
And your friends, they all come crawling
Slap you on the back and say
Please (https://genius.com/Stealers-wheel-stuck-in-the-middle-with-you-lyrics#note-18208477)

[Maddog]

A typical Spurs playoff game boosts the team’s Revenue by ~2.5 million $USD. It isn’t chump change.

Yep
And the Spurs are not exactly flush with money.

[slick'81]

Outside of Lakers and Clippers (and Spurs have beaten the Clippers once), I think Spurs can beat anybody in a 7 series IF they play right and I mean all the planets aligned. Lakers, Clippers are one injury away from being beatable. Who knows what happen in the playoffs? I like Spurs to make the playoffs for the young players, Murray, White, Lonnie, Poeltl. They need to experience that for their development. I don’t believe in tanking, because Spurs already have a great young group, with Keldon, WSpoon and Samanic (maybe not next year) coming, plus whoever Spurs get 19, 49? Spurs would be so much better next year with another year under their belt. Lonnie will be a stud. They all would just benefit from the playoff experience. So yeah.

whoa, now thats optimism

[MultiTroll]

Ironic that if they "tank" in the sense of Pop having the car keys and Pet midgets taken away while the long athletic running Young Uns are cut loose the chances of making the playoffs goes UP!

So in a sense Grandpa is unwittingly tanking.
In true stubbornness / ego caused dementia mode he doesn't even know it. :lol

Still like to know if Coach 32nd ordered LMA to start attempting more treys or if LMA and others (Tim, Becky?) are behind it.

[rascal]

So we all agree that unless something changes drastically, the Spurs aren't going to challenge for the LOB, or even the WCF this season... right? So the biggest consideration should be the long term success of the team. What is the best/quickest way for the Spurs to get back into contention?

So the only real questions to me are:
1. Would making the playoffs and a first round exit really do anything to further the Spurs' long term success. I know people like to talk about "winning culture", etc. but the real answer to that is "no".
2. While there isn't much difference between, say, the 13th pick and the 16th pick, if the Spurs pulled the plug on the first round exit, could they do significantly better than the 16th pick?
3. Since next year's draft doesn't look deep, could the Spurs do anything through a trade that would secure a better pick in 20/21?

You say to trust the Spurs' FO to get the best pick available at the 15,16,17 pick. I don't have a problem with that. But what it leaves out is that the best player available at 7 or 8 would almost certainly be better. Very possibly a lot better. Hell, the best player available at the 30th pick might be better than everyone else on the board, but that doesn't count for much.

One thing is for certain. Half measures are the worst possible thing. If they're going with a "win now" strategy, they need to commit to it. If they're going to use the draft and trades to build for the near future, they need to commit to that. I think there are a lot of fans in love with the idea of holding the playoff record. I get it, that's what fans do. I really, really hope that PATFO aren't thinking that way, because it won't do a thing to bring more talent, or wins, to next year's team. A #8 pick might.

The Spurs could also get lucky a land a top 3 pick in the draft lottery.

[rascal]

The money.

How much money will they make with one home playoff game, two at the most.

[rascal]

This draft is very weak.

Every draft will have a few very good to great players.

[Chillen]

The time for the Spurs to miss the playoffs was last season, could have maybe got Zion. They should go for the playoff record, but they have to play better and maybe make a trade to make it happen.

[Coach X]

I think the only wat of getting rid of Forbes is having him failing big time in playoffs. That one and having any other player being better than him in the training camp are the only reasons for Popovich to change his mind about a player. That what the Spurs history tells us.

[JeffDuncan]

How much money will they make with one home playoff game, two at the most.

More than zero. That question is answered above.

[gambit1990]

it's not the spurs' decision.

https://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/003/847/601/hi-res-c675b116dbb4228f990113e223931ce9_crop_north.jpg?h= 533&w=800&q=70&crop_x=center&crop_y=top

[Ignazzz]

Every draft will have a few very good to great players.
sure but some Draft is deep with ss potential and other not
2020 is one of the weakest in both cathegories so tanking now is weaker move then normally

[Arcadian]

It's not a question of whether they should "try." They are trying, and they're probably going to fail because they're just not good enough.

[RC_Drunkford]

I think the only way of getting rid of Forbes is having to start a gofundme so we can hire a hitman and pay him to shoot up his knee caps

FIFY

[Rummpd]

Losing x 2 to the Hawks is a pretty good way to miss playoffs.

[JeffDuncan]

I think Pop's coaching has given us the answer to the playoff question.

[Mugen]

Any self-respecting Spurs fan would obviously rather see them miss the playoffs rather than get embarrassed in the 1st round. But I'll honestly just hope for whichever outcome forces Pop to retire.

Pop is the sole reason this garbage team is under-performing. You remove him from the equation and the future of the organization is much brighter tbh.

[ZeusWillJudge]

sure but some Draft is deep with ss potential and other not
2020 is one of the weakest in both cathegories so tanking now is weaker move then normally

You realize that this time last year there were a lot of people saying that the 2019 draft was weak, outside the top 3 players? In January of last year, not many people (besides me) were talking about Chuma Okeke, and there were articles saying that Matisse Thybulle might be worth drafting even though "most scouts" thought he wasn't even an NBA type of player. Hell, in June of 2018 "they" were talking about how Trae Young's draft stock was falling.

There's no Zion Williamson buzz in this draft, but there will be some good players, just like every year. You might want to wait until March Madness time to decide that the draft will be a washout.


Losing x 2 to the Hawks is a pretty good way to miss playoffs.

If Memphis and OKC keep playing at the same pace they are now, the Spurs would have to go 24-18 the rest of the way to make the playoffs. They would have to go 29-13 (.690) to move above OKC to the 7th seed. That 29-13 (.690) record just happens to be the exact record the Kawhi/PG Clippers have compiled in the first half of the season.

I hope some people can/will see that: To move up to the damn 7th seed, all the Spurs have to do is start playing exactly as good as the Clips have been so far this season. And if they get drilled during this RRT, which is likely looking at the opponents, even the chance of squeaking into the 8 seed is pretty damn slim.

This season is shot. We've gotten close to the point where even the die-hards will have to admit it. If the Hawk had missed that last shot, a lot of those die-hards would be counting it as a sign that the Spurs are still on track to get that playoff record, instead of a sign that they barely squeaked by the worst team in the East.

[Prime BEEF]

sure but some Draft is deep with ss potential and other not
2020 is one of the weakest in both cathegories so tanking now is weaker move then normally
I watch a lot of college basketball. It’s actually my favorite sports area to keep up with. Aside from the bird vs magic greatness I didn’t really get into the nba until the spurs drafted DRob.

anyways, IMO this draft is weak at the top but not in the middle to late 1st round. I’m not at all convinced that Wiseman, Edwards or Ball will be great players and if we had a top 3 pick I’d recommend trading down. They may end up being ok players but that’s not worth a top 3 pick.

Time will tell but I think players like Halliburton, Okongwu, Toppin, Carey Jr, Bey, Paul Reed, Achiuwa, Ramsey, Jalen Smith, and Nwora will all be good nba players and contributors as starters or role players off the bench. The value of this draft is middle and late 1st round with no top tier stars.

[ZeusWillJudge]

A typical Spurs playoff game boosts the team’s Revenue by ~2.5 million $USD. It isn’t chump change.

Yep
And the Spurs are not exactly flush with money.


LOL. 10 years ago, the Spurs franchise valuation was $400M. Today it's something over $1.6B. That $1.2B increase would only take 480 playoff games to make, even by your figure (which, by the way, is gross revenue and not operating revenue). I never said the revenue from playoff games is chump change. I specifically said that it will cost them MUCH more if they fall into perpetual mediocrity - which they are well on the road to if they don't make some smart changes.

If you two (or any of the rest of you) think that the biggest money maker for NBA owners is basketball games, you need to read a little. (Golden State has something like $2B in revenues locked in, before any revenues from operations. Small market teams don't make that much, obviously, but it's a good illustration.) The Spurs' ownership group will make a shitload more money by getting back to LOB contention than they could ever think about making from first round exits. And if you own an asset worth $1.6 BILLION, you don't have any problem scraping up the cash to pay the light bill.

Right now, the Spurs still have some leftover reputation as an elite franchise. If they really care about money, their focus should be long-term dominance, not a single first round exit.

[JeffDuncan]

...
Right now, the Spurs still have some leftover reputation as an elite franchise. If they really care about money, their focus should be long-term dominance, not a single first round exit.


What are the actual stats on teams improving by intentionally missing the playoffs? How often has it happened in the last, say, 20 years? I'm trying to think of examples.

[TimDunkem]

Every draft will have a few very good to great players.

Yeah ST says that every year. You can guarantee that there will be some contributors in there, and you might as well put yourself in a good position to possibly grab one if you have no chance of doing anything in the playoffs like our Spurs.

[TimDunkem]

You realize that this time last year there were a lot of people saying that the 2019 draft was weak, outside the top 3 players? In January of last year, not many people (besides me) were talking about Chuma Okeke, and there were articles saying that Matisse Thybulle might be worth drafting even though "most scouts" thought he wasn't even an NBA type of player. Hell, in June of 2018 "they" were talking about how Trae Young's draft stock was falling.

There's no Zion Williamson buzz in this draft, but there will be some good players, just like every year. You might want to wait until March Madness time to decide that the draft will be a washout.



If Memphis and OKC keep playing at the same pace they are now, the Spurs would have to go 24-18 the rest of the way to make the playoffs. They would have to go 29-13 (.690) to move above OKC to the 7th seed. That 29-13 (.690) record just happens to be the exact record the Kawhi/PG Clippers have compiled in the first half of the season.

I hope some people can/will see that: To move up to the damn 7th seed, all the Spurs have to do is start playing exactly as good as the Clips have been so far this season. And if they get drilled during this RRT, which is likely looking at the opponents, even the chance of squeaking into the 8 seed is pretty damn slim.

This season is shot. We've gotten close to the point where even the die-hards will have to admit it. If the Hawk had missed that last shot, a lot of those die-hards would be counting it as a sign that the Spurs are still on track to get that playoff record, instead of a sign that they barely squeaked by the worst team in the East.

The consensus here every single damn year is that the draft is weak and there are likely no contributors to be found. Every year ST is proven wrong to an extent. No doubt there will be gems in there. Why not just play the young guys and let the team play into the loterry?

The DD/LMA thing was probably never going to work out anyway. No sense in dragging it out even more.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

i agreed with OP until last night. it’s not that they lost, it’s how they lost

[tbdog]

The consensus here every single damn year is that the draft is weak and there are likely no contributors to be found. Every year ST is proven wrong to an extent. No doubt there will be gems in there. Why not just play the young guys and let the team play into the loterry?

The DD/LMA thing was probably never going to work out anyway. No sense in dragging it out even more.

The thing is Spurs usually don't keep their talent. Joseph was not kept. Slomo, Mehami, Anderson all didn't stay. Hill, Splitter both were traded early in their extension. Obviously the big 3 stayed and Leonard was reluctantly traded. Murray only just got extended.

[SpurPadre]

The consensus here every single damn year is that the draft is weak and there are likely no contributors to be found. Every year ST is proven wrong to an extent. No doubt there will be gems in there. Why not just play the young guys and let the team play into the loterry?

The DD/LMA thing was probably never going to work out anyway. No sense in dragging it out even more.

Using Spurstalk logic, the last time there a good draft was 2011. Every draft since then is "weak" according to the consensus here. I see quite a few intriguing players here: https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/NBA-Draft-2020-top-players-140299920/#140299920_9

[Prime BEEF]

Bold prediction....the pelicans will make the playoffs.

not counting Zion at all if the other players on the team are healthy (which they haven’t been most of the year) they are tough to beat. Now that the non-Zion players are healthy...watch out .

[emanueldavidginobili]

I fully expect this team to be 12/13 in the west at the conclusion of the RRT.

[TDomination]

Any self-respecting Spurs fan would obviously rather see them miss the playoffs rather than get embarrassed in the 1st round. But I'll honestly just hope for whichever outcome forces Pop to retire.

Pop is the sole reason this garbage team is under-performing. You remove him from the equation and the future of the organization is much brighter tbh.

This 100%

Missing or not missing playoffs makes no difference as long as Pop sticks around. We get a decent draft pick next year...so what?

[K...]

The thing is Spurs usually don't keep their talent. Joseph was not kept. Slomo, Mehami, Anderson all didn't stay. Hill, Splitter both were traded early in their extension. Obviously the big 3 stayed and Leonard was reluctantly traded. Murray only just got extended.

The Spurs also had 3-4 core members for a long time, makes sense to rotate around a core and sell assets when they're not price controlled. The current Spurs might have a core 2, but realistically have no core. So maybe they spend longer with prospects, maybe they do a total zero out and try to amass assets. It's a new era

[K...]

Any self-respecting Spurs fan would obviously rather see them miss the playoffs rather than get embarrassed in the 1st round. But I'll honestly just hope for whichever outcome forces Pop to retire.

Pop is the sole reason this garbage team is under-performing. You remove him from the equation and the future of the organization is much brighter tbh.

Correct, but remove pop, Forbes,beli and this team still losses in the first round. This team isn't some precious egg about to hatch, it's the same post Tim Duncan slide to the bottom

[rascal]

What are the actual stats on teams improving by intentionally missing the playoffs? How often has it happened in the last, say, 20 years? I'm trying to think of examples.

Golden State had some lean years and worked the draft to turn their team into a contender.

[rascal]

The Spurs can always package a lottery pick with one of their veterans in a trade.

[DMC]

I don't care if the Spurs make a couple extra game incomes in the box office. I do care if they move toward being contenders again. If they don't move that way, opting instead to try to squeak in a couple playoff games, then they're just frauds.

[rascal]

The thing is Spurs usually don't keep their talent. Joseph was not kept. Slomo, Mehami, Anderson all didn't stay. Hill, Splitter both were traded early in their extension. Obviously the big 3 stayed and Leonard was reluctantly traded. Murray only just got extended.

They were not kept because most of those picks were not very good. Hill was the only player worth much of anything and all the others did little to nothing after they left.

[cd021]

The Spurs can always package a lottery pick with one of their veterans in a trade.

I'm thinking White and, say the 14th pick to move up or White for another pick in the teens.

[DPG21920]

I'm thinking White and, say the 14th pick to move up or White for another pick in the teens.

Why would a team that is rebuilding give up one of their younger players though? I guess if there is someone like Kawhi they love and that’s what it takes (George Hill) then ok. But I would not be so quick to trade the youth to move up a few spots IMO.

[DPG21920]

The goal shouldn’t be to “eek into the playoffs”. That is arbitrary. There is nothing noble or healthy about a losing season (or even 500) even if that is good enough in a given year to make the 8th seed.

if you are a legit playoff team, that is one thing. Spurs are very clearly not that. It’s time to pick a lane. Bolster your team to win now if you truly believe in them or get the best assets (even if they aren’t great) you can to rebuild.

There is zero difference to me, playoffs or not, in winning 37-39 games and 18 games. None.

[Maddog]

LOL. 10 years ago, the Spurs franchise valuation was $400M. Today it's something over $1.6B. That $1.2B increase would only take 480 playoff games to make, even by your figure (which, by the way, is gross revenue and not operating revenue). I never said the revenue from playoff games is chump change. I specifically said that it will cost them MUCH more if they fall into perpetual mediocrity - which they are well on the road to if they don't make some smart changes.

If you two (or any of the rest of you) think that the biggest money maker for NBA owners is basketball games, you need to read a little. (Golden State has something like $2B in revenues locked in, before any revenues from operations. Small market teams don't make that much, obviously, but it's a good illustration.) The Spurs' ownership group will make a shitload more money by getting back to LOB contention than they could ever think about making from first round exits. And if you own an asset worth $1.6 BILLION, you don't have any problem scraping up the cash to pay the light bill.

Right now, the Spurs still have some leftover reputation as an elite franchise. If they really care about money, their focus should be long-term dominance, not a single first round exit.
GS,LAL and few others have local media deals that net them huge amounts of revenue, much less coporate sponsors.valuation is useful if you are planning on selling. The Spurs may or may not have been a team that lost money two years ago, but appear to be a team that roughly breaks even.
That said, I think they would be better off not trying to win and rebuild at the same time.
I think it's time to blow it up. I know many teams have drafted high for years without success, but the middle road isn't very successful either (although they pulled it off once before)

[DPG21920]

But look, while some of us saw this writing on the wall early, I fully understand those wanting to be patient and give it as much time to develop as possible.

But we are rapidly approaching the trade deadline and decision time and nothing has materialized. The team is still not worthy of investment into regarding trying to win now. Even their “best stretch” and “signs of improvement” have only yielded .500 ball. Since that 8 game losing streak they are 12-12.

They still have a losing record and will never make that up playing .500 ball and even if they had played .500 ball all season, would people really be thrilled about a 41win, no ceiling team with players you dont want to extend because you don’t believe in them enough to build around?

They were given time but what was clear to some should now be clear to everyone; this team is not built well and in no way, shape or form should be given any leash or more time.

It’s one thing to hold out hope for a team that has a ceiling and can be a legit playoff team. This team is not that.

[cd021]

Why would a team that is rebuilding give up one of their younger players though? I guess if there is someone like Kawhi they love and that’s what it takes (George Hill) then ok. But I would not be so quick to trade the youth to move up a few spots IMO.

It's player dependent; if the Spur like a player that is projected to go 7th, for example, trading White plus their pick could net them that player.

White is already 25 and will turn 26 over the summer. He is probably closer to what he is at this point. He was really good last season and not great this season. He's a pretty good player but its worth it to consider moving him before he loses value. I think George Hill is a perfect comparison.

[DPG21920]

It's player dependent; if the Spur like a player that is projected to go 7th, for example, trading White plus their pick could net them that player.

White is already 25 and will turn 26 over the summer. He is probably closer to what he is at this point. He was really good last season and not great this season. He's a pretty good player but its worth it to consider moving him before he loses value. I think George Hill is a perfect comparison.

Sure, in that regard, like finding another Kawhi it makes sense. Should still be low in the pecking order hopefully in terms of guys you are willing to move.

But I read your post as moving SA’s pick + White for another pick in the teens (so barely moving up)

[sasaint]

It's player dependent; if the Spur like a player that is projected to go 7th, for example, trading White plus their pick could net them that player.

White is already 25 and will turn 26 over the summer. He is probably closer to what he is at this point. He was really good last season and not great this season. He's a pretty good player but its worth it to consider moving him before he loses value. I think George Hill is a perfect comparison.

Show me a Number 2 in this draft (without an uncle), and I would consider it. But we should hope Georgy is a bad comparison. He improved greatly after 26, and I wish he were a Spur to this day - especially the last two or three seasons. Pop probably missed the boat there, too. Wonder if he could have gotten even more from Indiana for TP?

[cd021]

Sure, in that regard, like finding another Kawhi it makes sense. Should still be low in the pecking order hopefully in terms of guys you are willing to move.

But I read your post as moving SA’s pick + White for another pick in the teens (so barely moving up)


Show me a Number 2 in this draft (without an uncle), and I would consider it. But we should hope Georgy is a bad comparison. He improved greatly after 26, and I wish he were a Spur to this day - especially the last two or three seasons. Pop probably missed the boat there, too. Wonder if he could have gotten even more from Indiana for TP?

Don't have any player in mind but if PATFO does then it would make sense to consider it. Whites pretty good but not untradable.

[sasaint]

Don't have any player in mind but if PATFO does then it would make sense to consider it. Whites pretty good but not untradable.

I would personally rather trade Dijon if it came down to that.

[cd021]

I would personally rather trade Dijon if it came down to that.

I think White holds more value because he hasn't been paid yet, the team that gets him in a trade would have him as a restricted free agent. they'd be able to negotiate a new deal is apposed to another team doing it and then trading him.

[sasaint]

I think White holds more value because he hasn't been paid yet, the team that gets him in a trade would have him as a restricted free agent. they'd be able to negotiate a new deal is apposed to another team doing it and then trading him.

If you're looking at it from the other team's perspective...

From the Spurs' perspective, I prefer to keep Derrick.

[Russ]

A well-run organization who makes the playoffs (even the 8 seed) will be fine.

A well-run organization who doesn't make the playoffs will also be fine.

A poorly-run organization who makes the playoffs will have problems.

A poorly-run organization who doesn't make the playoffs will also have problems.

So the question isn't so much whether the Spurs make the playoffs, but whether they are a well-run (or poorly-run) organization.

Since most of the people who want to tank also think the Spurs are a poorly-run organization, there's really no hope. At least not for them.

Sorry to break it to you.

[cd021]

If you're looking at it from the other team's perspective...

From the Spurs' perspective, I prefer to keep Derrick.

If the Spurs find some nineteen-year-old they really like, I would definitely be willing to move White in a deal to move up. Otherwise I'm fine with White but think he just pretty good.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Bold prediction....the pelicans will make the playoffs.

not counting Zion at all if the other players on the team are healthy (which they haven’t been most of the year) they are tough to beat. Now that the non-Zion players are healthy...watch out .


I also agree if the Pelicans stay healthy they will take the 8th spot in the playoffs this season

[gambit1990]

it's not the spurs' decision.

https://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/003/847/601/hi-res-c675b116dbb4228f990113e223931ce9_crop_north.jpg?h= 533&w=800&q=70&crop_x=center&crop_y=top

grizzlies 22-24 now; spurs 20-25.

[timtonymanu]

Go Grizzlies Go!

[UZER]

No sense making the playoffs now. Whatever small minimal chance the Spurs has of competing with LA is now gone. Pop will definitely waive the white flag so Lebron can win the championship as a Laker in Kobe’s honor.

[dbreiden83080]

Well I don't want the Ball kid in the draft that is for sure..

[DPG21920]

And looking back at this article, I think this was the wrong question. They have been trying to make the playoffs. That was their goal. The fact they are trying and still are struggling should be very eye opening.

[Sugus]

And looking back at this article, I think this was the wrong question. They have been trying to make the playoffs. That was their goal. The fact they are trying and still are struggling should be very eye opening.

The Spurs team has been trying to make the playoffs all season. Pop has been hindering from doing it all season as well. I'm fine with a 9th-10th place now: I see clearly the Spurs need to have the wheels fall off as embarrassingly as possible, giving us the best chance of Pop finally hanging it up. We need a serious infusion of new blood at the helm.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

A well-run organization who makes the playoffs (even the 8 seed) will be fine.

A well-run organization who doesn't make the playoffs will also be fine.

A poorly-run organization who makes the playoffs will have problems.

A poorly-run organization who doesn't make the playoffs will also have problems.

So the question isn't so much whether the Spurs make the playoffs, but whether they are a well-run (or poorly-run) organization.

Since most of the people who want to tank also think the Spurs are a poorly-run organization, there's really no hope. At least not for them.

Sorry to break it to you.

Great point. You can't just blow it up and expect to get better. How many times has Phoenix blown it up, and they still probably won't make the playoffs? Spurs fans who say blow it up, while also saying PATFO suck should pucker their buttholes and get ready for 10 years of mediocrity.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Great point. You can't just blow it up and expect to get better. How many times has Phoenix blown it up, and they still probably won't make the playoffs? Spurs fans who say blow it up, while also saying PATFO suck should pucker their buttholes and get ready for 10 years of mediocrity.


A one-year tank, good draft pick, and clearing some dead wood like Forbes and Beli is not the same thing as blowing it up. I don't know what the other ass clowns are talking about, but that's all I've ever talked about.

The Spurs have been trying to win, and they can't. The tanking around the league has picked up pace (especially in the East), and the Spurs would now have a really tough time getting a bottom 10 record now. At this point, it really doesn't make much difference at all whether they make the playoffs or not. Maybe 2-3 slots in the draft. That could be a big deal, but I'm not excited about it like I would have been with a 7-8 pick.

They have taken the middle road on everything. Nothing could be more likely to result in 10 years of mediocrity.

[gambit1990]

it was never up to the spurs.

[Slippy]

Greg Popovich continues to start Bryn Forbes. There has been no major adjusments to the starting five since Lonnies only appearance awhile back. The team stars are a playing better, yet this team continues to lose ground in the win column and 8th spot.

The question should be is gregario serious about making the playoffs?

[Cryptic Parable]

Why would making the playoffs be the goal? The team is sub .500 and not playing to a level to get excited about. Team needs to more future focused plan going forward and making the playoffs with this current group shouldn’t be it. Wiseman or bust is my motto but getting the young guys more minutes and experience is important

[tbdog]

Why would making the playoffs be the goal? The team is sub .500 and not playing to a level to get excited about. Team needs to more future focused plan going forward and making the playoffs with this current group shouldn’t be it. Wiseman or bust is my motto but getting the young guys more minutes and experience is important

They are trying to win games.

[widowmaker]

No.

[couchman]

The draft this year is historically weak. There is not much to gain by tanking.

[look_at_g_shred]

The san antonio gregg's are TRYING to make the playoffs, but this roster is such trash they can't win :lmao Dumb ass FO. "100% obsessed with making the playoffs" That statement is going to make PATFO look even more stupid when they don't make it.

[TimDunkem]

The draft this year is historically weak. There is not much to gain by tanking.

What's the difference when you won't make the playoffs anyway? Would you rather play for nothing?

[Cryptic Parable]

Great but no everyone is talking about making the playoffs with a sub .500 record. Winning games should always be the goal and championships not making the playoffs. I like that they went on a good run and it’s winning games but I hate y’all of making the playoffs without speaking of roster improvements

[ZeusWillJudge]

The draft this year is historically weak. There is not much to gain by tanking.


This thread is just loaded with shitty takes. Not to worry, though. In a year or two, the same people will have forgotten they ever said these things, and posting things like: "I TOLD you all the Spurs should have tanked so they could pick XXXXXX in that 2020 draft." :lol

[TimDunkem]

Great but no everyone is talking about making the playoffs with a sub .500 record. Winning games should always be the goal and championships not making the playoffs. I like that they went on a good run and it’s winning games but I hate y’all of making the playoffs without speaking of roster improvements

For a fanbase that always speaks of not mortgaging the future, some here really don't seem to give a damn about the future right now because - as things stand - we don't have much of one.

[Prime BEEF]

This thread is just loaded with shitty takes. Not to worry, though. In a year or two, the same people will have forgotten they ever said these things, and posting things like: "I TOLD you all the Spurs should have tanked so they could pick XXXXXX in that 2020 draft." :lol
You’re right. They will. Hopefully someone calls them out on their bullshit

[widowmaker]

Ok ill go and make the statement now. Spurs are NOT making the playoffs this year. There call me out in April if a miracle happens and they make it. Anyway weak draft or not they need to grab the best player available and hope for the best. There isnt a “one” player savior plan. Right now as the spurs roster stands they aren’t good enough to do any winning or some how ready to upset a 1 seed western conference team. Some guys are just upset and sad that a 20 year plus streak is about to end thats what all this back and forth is really about.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Ok ill go and make the statement now. Spurs are NOT making the playoffs this year. There call me out in April if a miracle happens and they make it. Anyway weak draft or not they need to grab the best player available and hope for the best. There isnt a “one” player savior plan. Right now as the spurs roster stands they aren’t good enough to do any winning or some how ready to upset a 1 seed western conference team. Some guys are just upset and sad that a 20 year plus streak is about to end thats what all this back and forth is really about.


That's pretty edgy stuff.

[slick'81]

:elephant They aint trying

[widowmaker]

:elephant They aint trying


Yeah if you call that trying LMAO!!!