Grades: Spurs vs. Hawks - Jan. 17, 2020

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-san-antonio-spurs-atlanta-hawks-january-17-2020/

tl;dr: :smchode:

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I thought the idea of having Mills on Young was that they'd switch and someone else would end up on him. That whole defensive possession was a mess. I don't think anyone was aware what they're supposed to do.

[timtonymanu]

Spurs needed this game to better their chance at the 8th seed and couldn’t deliver. Gosh I hope this team doesn’t fall into a playoff spot they far from deserve.

[Slippy]

Those 4th quarter lineups were out there fro m pop. One thing for sure he wasnt prioritizing defense.

Think the reason for benching Lonnie was a late closeout on three . Just earlier Bryn Layed some matedor D that had Becky up in arms. Would love to see a vid of this to confirm.. I'm still trying to figure out what pop is seeing from player to player.

[tbdog]

What the hell is going on with Pop? Like, even in a computer game, you wouldn't run those lineups. You wouldn't run it in practice either. Like at what point in practice do you say, White your at PF? .

[quentin_compson]

That last three by Huerter certainly wasn't on Murray alone. The Spurs were just (as pretty much all night) too slow to react and switch defensively which caused Poeltl being caught in no man's land while Murray had to guard Poeltl's man down low and then rush to the perimeter to try and contest Huerter's three pointer.
All in all, just a disastrous and embarrassing loss - and a well deserved one, too.

[EasyMoney]

That last three by Huerter certainly wasn't on Murray alone. The Spurs were just (as pretty much all night) too slow to react and switch defensively which caused Poeltl being caught in no man's land while Murray had to guard Poeltl's man down low and then rush to the perimeter to try and contest Huerter's three pointer.
All in all, just a disastrous and embarrassing loss - and a well deserved one, too.



At that moment it was either give up a guaranteed 2 to tie the game or take the chance to close out and attempt to contest a 3. People criticizing Murray but anyone in that situation would have lured towards the paint. Dejounte was caught in a bad position and of course he's getting the blame even though he or Derrick should have been guarding trae to begin with.

[DavidTheGoliath]

Automatic F for Pop everytime he plays Brynt more than 5 mins a game.
Good grades non the less

[XDT76]

What the hell is going on with Pop? Like, even in a computer game, you wouldn't run those lineups. You wouldn't run it in practice either. Like at what point in practice do you say, White your at PF? .

The only problem with the line up is that he did not play DDR as the 5.

[MannyIsGod]

What I don't get is what the fuck has happened to Carroll. Tonight would have been the best place to give him some run, but dude is no where to be found. Is he that underwhelming in practice? I mean I can't remember anytime they brought someone in like this in the off season and we never see him play. How the fuck do we get more minutes for Marco instead?

The bottom line with this team is that there's no reason White, Murray and Lonnie shouldn't all be at about 30 minutes per game. I don't know anyone who thinks anything other than mop up time for Forbes is a good idea and here we are halfway through the season with him 3rd in minutes. I could understand going with the vets if it was the better option to make the playoffs this year, but going with the vets is what is dragging down the fucking team to begin with. There's zero upside to it so now we're not making the playoffs and we're not getting to see our young players develop. Literally no one is getting what they want out of this season. If we're going to miss the fucking playoffs, then at least do it with Lonnie, White and Murray getting to get some fucking experience.

For the longest time we've given Pop credit for the Spurs system and he deserves it. But that system relied on good veteran play to go along with stars, and now Pop doesn't have those ingredients and he's unable to bring himself to play the young guys and live with it. This season is playing out in possible the worst manner possible if we're this far under 500 this close to trade deadline but still in the playoff race. Throw in DeMar looking downright ungaurdable and I have no idea how they're going to make a clear decision on what to do in the coming weeks. This version of Demar is someone you keep around for several more years, but is this version of DeMar going to be the real DeMar 2 months from now? Fuck if I know. If you're not going to extend him then you really should trade him now and while I didn't want to extend him 20 games ago his play over the past month has been exceptional and it gives me pause.

I just wish we had used the first 40 games to find out what we had in our youth. Feels like we've made up very little ground on that front for the sake of playing Marco and Bryn to the tune of multiple losses squarely at the feet of lineups involving those two. Just a waste.

[RC_Drunkford]

“We are a little more settled on who should be playing, minutes and who should be playing with whom,” Popovich said before Wednesday night's 106-100 loss to the Heat. “That was always a work in progress this season, a really slow start because of that.”

[tbdog]

Pounding the rock has a good article on this loss.

[silverblackfan]

Thanks for the grades. I started my frantic yelling at the TV when Pop trotted out that Belli, Mills, Forbes line up too. The cherry on top was after that line up gave up the next 6 points, Pop called a timeout and acted all upset with the players, waiving his arms around in animated fashion. He set them up to fail and then blamed them for the error.
I respect Pop, but he is really losing a lot of that respect this season. If we are going for a lottery pick, just play the young guys and seek out trades for the old. Don't play around with everyone's emotion.

[quentin_compson]

I was just thinking of this song title in connection to the game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_c8aGMEjx4

[RC_Drunkford]

Thanks for the grades. I started my frantic yelling at the TV when Pop trotted out that Belli, Mills, Forbes line up too. The cherry on top was after that line up gave up the next 6 points, Pop called a timeout and acted all upset with the players, waiving his arms around in animated fashion. He set them up to fail and then blamed them for the error.
I respect Pop, but he is really losing a lot of that respect this season. If we are going for a lottery pick, just play the young guys and seek out trades for the old. Don't play around with everyone's emotion.

Hit the nail on the head. That's exactly my main issue with him. And not only this season

[Truth4sale$]

Thanks for the grades. I didn't see the game but the grades and write up really reflect not just this game but the entire season. The Spurs are really playing 4 on 5 on offense (nothing from Trey Lyles), to start a game. And play poor defensive lineups throughout a game, and end a winnable game with a loss with head scratching coaching decisions.
It's time to dump the dead weight to the bench and see what other guys can do.

[Mugen]

:lol Your best grades of the season.....

The Sniff Crew isn't going to like this one, I doubt we'll see any of them comment on this thread :lmao

[sananspursfan21]

I really wish I didn’t watch this game.

[John B]

F+ is still too high for Pop. Spurs already won it with 15 points lead and just need to put it away. Instead Pop wanted to be cute with Forbes/Mills/Beli combination in the crucial 4th quarter? Young is the head of the snake. Why didn’t Pop put his best defender to guard Young? Mills? Unbelievable. How does Pop justify playing Forbes 26 minutes not hitting his 3’s? And getting beat by Huerter? And pulled Walker out on that foul? And inserted Beli??? As if Pop was taunting that Spurs fan. You could see Walker’s disgust. I think he might have said something because his teammates were consoling him like he’s just lost. I mean Pop is just too tough on this kid but let Forbes/Beli slide. It’s disgusting. I haven’t been this upset with Pop with the way he’s handling this team. And I love Pop and what he’s done for the Spurs.

[vavvi]

That was soooo painful ((((((((((

[Prime BEEF]

I really wish I didn’t watch this game.
I quit watching a while ago. It just isn’t good for me mentally and I could be spending time with family. Aside from senile pop making awful coaching decisions, this team just isn’t fun to watch, is boring, plays horrible defense, and I don’t really care for pretty much everyone on the roster. When I do watch the games, I end up rooting for the other team which I absolutely hate doing...another reason I don’t watch.

[vavvi]

F+ is still too high for Pop. Spurs already won it with 15 points lead and just need to put it away. Instead Pop wanted to be cute with Forbes/Mills/Beli combination in the crucial 4th quarter? Young is the head of the snake. Why didn’t Pop put his best defender to guard Young? Mills? Unbelievable. How does Pop justify playing Forbes 26 minutes not hitting his 3’s? And getting beat by Huerter? And pulled Walker out on that foul? And inserted Beli??? As if Pop was taunting that Spurs fan. You could see Walker’s disgust. I think he might have said something because his teammates were consoling him like he’s just lost. I mean Pop is just too tough on this kid but let Forbes/Beli slide. It’s disgusting. I haven’t been this upset with Pop with the way he’s handling this team. And I love Pop and what he’s done for the Spurs.

Totally agree.

Another issue is Spurs may be the only ATL opponent this season who didn’t attack Young possession after possession. He is a historically bad defender, alas Pop seemed disinterested in utilizing this

[baseline bum]

Glad I missed this one. What a clusterfuck this sounded like.

[Mugen]

Take literally any other coach in the league, even fucking Jim Boylen, and the Spurs are at least .500 :lol

I've never been to SA but I'm sure there's not much going on in the city. You guys better throw the biggest celebration that city has ever seen when the old man finally decides he's done fucking this team and walks away.

I'm praying for Team USA to get embarrassed this summer, that might be enough for the national media to take notice on just how fucking bad of a coach he's devolved into the last 5 years.

[benefactor]

Nice. Hold that nine spot down and get into the lottery tbh

[Mugen]

Sucks that Bryn isn't into drag racing like some past NBA players I can think of tbh :lol

[R. DeMurre]

Real Plus Minus of max salary type players & others for this season so far:

LeBron 9.81
Giannis 7.59
Harden 6.71
Kawhi 5.95
Jokic 4.60
Siakam 4.06
Doncic 3.33
Davis Bertans 3.10
Lonnie Walker lV 2.47
Patty Mills 1.98
Poeltl 1.80
Lou Williams 1.47
Jrue Holiday 1.12
Rudy Gay 1.12
Lonzo Ball 0.99
Nemanja Bjelica 0.78
Rodions Kurucs 0.42
Jordan Clarkson 0.17
Ish Smith -0.50
Frank Ntilikina -0.50
Demar DeRozan -0.61


And consider that this is after maybe the best run of DeRozan's career, during which the Spurs posted a record of 6-7. He's a workhorse, but unfortunately one that ultimately puts up empty stats.

[MultiTroll]

OPs edgiest Grade report so far? :toast

[emanueldavidginobili]

Real Plus Minus of max salary type players & others for this season so far:

LeBron 9.81
Giannis 7.59
Harden 6.71
Kawhi 5.95
Jokic 4.60
Siakam 4.06
Doncic 3.33
Davis Bertans 3.10
Lonnie Walker lV 2.47
Patty Mills 1.98
Poeltl 1.80
Lou Williams 1.47
Jrue Holiday 1.12
Rudy Gay 1.12
Lonzo Ball 0.99
Nemanja Bjelica 0.78
Rodions Kurucs 0.42
Jordan Clarkson 0.17
Ish Smith -0.50
Frank Ntilikina -0.50
Demar DeRozan -0.61


And consider that this is after maybe the best run of DeRozan's career, during which the Spurs posted a record of 6-7. He's a workhorse, but unfortunately one that ultimately puts up empty stats.
Empty stats? He’s for sure pulling his weight and playing great. What else do you want him to do? it’s comical that you’re placing the blame on him, doesn’t help when he’s on the floor he’s also accompanied by Forbes.

[JeffDuncan]

Are we certain that RPM is a useful stat?

Dejounte Murray, -0.16
Bryn Forbes, -0.97
Demar DeRozan, -0.61
LaMarcus Aldridge, -0.74
Trey Lyles, 0.55

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Take literally any other coach in the league, even fucking Jim Boylen, and the Spurs are at least .500 :lol

I've never been to SA but I'm sure there's not much going on in the city. You guys better throw the biggest celebration that city has ever seen when the old man finally decides he's done fucking this team and walks away.

I'm praying for Team USA to get embarrassed this summer, that might be enough for the national media to take notice on just how fucking bad of a coach he's devolved into the last 5 years.

:lol you know it's coming when he picks Plumlee over Bam Adebayo again cause he's a :cry classy young man who doesn't scream after dunks :cry

[r0drig0lac]

I will never understand why Pop purposefully always has the smallest and least athletic team on the court, while Nurse is playing Lowry/OG/Siakam/Ibaka/Marc, Pop has the audacity to put Mills, Forbes and Marco on the court.

[ZeusWillJudge]

For all the talk about how Pop treats his stars the same as everyone else, he's had a long habit of scapegoating certain players who get hung out to dry by the bad play of others.

Part of me wants to believe that Pop really is tanking games by throwing the traffic cones out on the floor. But I don't believe it. Something has gone seriously wrong with him. When I look back at things like the West/Diaw Turd Towers, it's getting harder not to think that what has gone wrong is that Duncan isn't here to carry Pop's ego.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

at this point the 5% homer/sniffer/optimist left in me has faith that this is cia tank

[FkLA]

Pop has completely sucked the life out of me as a fan. I've come to hate Spurs games and pretty much just watch them out of habit at this point. Has nothing to do with the losing either. It's the blatant favoritism and refusal to play the guys we were all excited about coming into the season.

If someone told me he was going to play Brent, Belli, and Wombat more than White, Murray, and Lonnie coming into the season I would've laughed in their face. Yet this is Pop's world.

[apalisoc_9]

:lol Your best grades of the season.....

The Sniff Crew isn't going to like this one, I doubt we'll see any of them comment on this thread :lmao

sniffmvp had to ad + sign on pop grades to satisfy the sniff crew

[JeffDuncan]

I will never understand why Pop purposefully always has the smallest and least athletic team on the court, while Nurse is playing Lowry/OG/Siakam/Ibaka/Marc, Pop has the audacity to put Mills, Forbes and Marco on the court.


Some years ago, I went with an elderly relative to a pick-your-own apple orchard. When you went in they'd give you a basket, then charge you by the weight when you were done.

The timing was perfect, a lot of great apples ready to pick. I picked half a bushel of some of the best apples I've ever seen.

There were also some apples that had already fallen, and hadn't been cleaned up yet, so they were still on the ground. They were bruised, had insect damage from ants, and were starting to shrivel, and starting to rot where the bugs had chewed on them. My elderly relative filled his basket with those, that he picked up off the ground, instead of picking good ones from the trees.

Since the orchard charged by weight, he had to pay the same for those as I paid for the good ones I picked. I don't know why he did that. I didn't mention it, and didn't ask. It was his choice, for some reason.

[FkLA]

What I don't get is what the fuck has happened to Carroll. Tonight would have been the best place to give him some run, but dude is no where to be found. Is he that underwhelming in practice? I mean I can't remember anytime they brought someone in like this in the off season and we never see him play. How the fuck do we get more minutes for Marco instead?

He has to have fucked up behind the scenes. Pop gave KJ minutes over him in one of the recent blowouts and yesterday Carroll was in a suit while KJ was on the bench. It's a huge fuck you to him by Pop at this point.

My guess is at some point, probably when Belli started off the season shooting 20% and Pop still force fed him minutes, Carroll complained about not getting a fair chance. He's not wrong but it's also a good way to permanently get in Pop's doghouse.

[benefactor]

at this point the 5% homer/sniffer/optimist left in me has faith that this is cia tank
Same. It feels like he's doing just enough to keep a glimpse of hope, but is low key shooting for a lottery level player to add to the current talent.

[Mugen]

Same. It feels like he's doing just enough to keep a glimpse of hope, but is low key shooting for a lottery level player to add to the current talent.

Giving him waaaaaaaaaaay too much credit, bene. I have zero doubt in my mind that he thinks Bryn is much better than Danny ever was. It's possible the senility has him thinking that Forbes is a better Ginobili tbh.

[FkLA]

Giving him waaaaaaaaaaay too much credit, bene. I have zero doubt in my mind that he thinks Bryn is much better than Danny ever was. It's possible the senility has him thinking that Forbes is a better Ginobili tbh.

I have no doubts that he thinks Brent is better than White, Murray and Lonnie.

[Mugen]

I have no doubts that he thinks Brent is better than White, Murray and Lonnie.

Yup - also chose Bryn over Danny.

I'm pretty the final straw for Kawhi is when Pop sat him down and said Bryn is your 1B, let's go get that ring....

[emanueldavidginobili]

1218381573642424323

This shit is sad right here. This kid is busting his ass, when he goes out there he covers the best player and brings to the team something no one else can and Pop pulls his ass for something minimal while Forbes and Marco get bukkaked every game.

[Sugus]

1218381573642424323

This shit is sad right here. This kid is busting his ass, when he goes out there he covers the best player and brings to the team something no one else can and Pop pulls his ass for something minimal while Forbes and Marco get bukkaked every game.

So clear in the gif how Lonnie knows he should be out there and knows the game is probably lost even though they're still up... He wants the reps and experience on the court and Pop just plays washed up vets or fucking Forbes over him. No reason Lonnie, or DJ or White, should ever be playing less than 30mpg - maybe 25 for DJ until the ASB, but not less. Pop's rotations are probably losing him the locker room as well, I'm surprised we haven't heard anything about that so far tbh

[GB20]

1218381573642424323

This shit is sad right here. This kid is busting his ass, when he goes out there he covers the best player and brings to the team something no one else can and Pop pulls his ass for something minimal while Forbes and Marco get bukkaked every game.

I really feel bad for Lonnie. It's not even fair the way pop is treating this kid this year. I bet Lonnie feel desperate and frustrated because he is about to be in his third year in the NBA and still hardly play.

[NASpurs]

I have no doubts that he thinks Brent is better than White, Murray and Lonnie.

If either of those three went down on the court with an injury, you know Pop would immediately run over to see if Forbes is alright.

[Spurs Homer]

Agree with most posted already-

i was enjoying the game and the third qtr just seemed to bring some life to enjoying the game as a fan that cares for this team

then pop benches lonnie for beli and i just tossed the remote-

said “fuck this- this will be a loss”

and began doing other shit and left the game on - but i lost any real interest or enthusiasm for the game

shit- let me be honest


i actually began to HOPE for a loss


that shit lineup came thru alright

they ensured the game would be lost.

I also lose a lot of interest in watching when i see the starting lineups with Forbes in it


and then whenever pop trots out forbes back after the rest of the team has fought back - only to have garbage like forbes come back and instantly give the opponent a BETTER chance to win.

[Capt Bringdown]

Murray's stat-line the last 8:26
1 turnover
3 rebounds
1-2 from the foul line
1 assist
1 shooting foul

Another Murray nothing burger. Is there anything he does well besides rebound?

[RC_Drunkford]

https://twitter.com/tom_orsborn/status/1218385879586177025

of course it's the players fault. The head coach is without fault, he does everything right all the time :lmao :lmao

[NASpurs]

https://twitter.com/tom_orsborn/status/1218385879586177025

of course it's the players fault. The head coach is without fault, he does everything right all the time :lmao :lmao

He sets them up to fail with his dumb rotations. My dude should look in a mirror.

[UZER]

Pop has completely sucked the life out of me as a fan. I've come to hate Spurs games and pretty much just watch them out of habit at this point. Has nothing to do with the losing either. It's the blatant favoritism and refusal to play the guys we were all excited about coming into the season.

If someone told me he was going to play Brent, Belli, and Wombat more than White, Murray, and Lonnie coming into the season I would've laughed in their face. Yet this is Pop's world.

yup. I've been there for awhile, even before this year. I can't stand Forbes getting so many minutes (although it's not his fault he plays so much). Only Pop would play start this unathletic, can't shoot, can't defend, can dribble, can't jump, can't create, can't get separation scrub, and play him soooo many undeserved. I don't even get invested in the games anymore. I watch because Ive been a fan for 35 years, but I have never turned off games early at the rate I do this year.

Pop is sucking the life out of Spurs fans, and nobody is going to call him on it. It's not the losing, it's his stubborn ass.

[UZER]

https://twitter.com/tom_orsborn/status/1218385879586177025

of course it's the players fault. The head coach is without fault, he does everything right all the time :lmao :lmao

https://twitter.com/tom_orsborn/status/1218385879586177025

Even is what Pop is saying IS true, nobody gives a shit anymore. Nobody listens to a damn word this stubborn old curmudgeon has to say anymore. His lineups don't reflect the message he's preaching. Just look at the team USA results.

His time is over.

[MannyIsGod]

Look I love Pop. There's reasons that he's the goat. But man if I don't just get annoyed at the start of every game when I see Forbes in the starting lineup. I won't be convinced anything has changed until that is not the case.

[timtonymanu]

This pussy front office begging Pop to come back only for him to be the main reason the team sucks this year. :lol

[Slippy]

I really feel bad for Lonnie. It's not even fair the way pop is treating this kid this year. I bet Lonnie feel desperate and frustrated because he is about to be in his third year in the NBA and still hardly play.

It ain right. That's his competitive nature screaming I should be out there. Our senile or tanking coach has forgotten lonnie can win games for ya.

[wildbill2u]

At that moment it was either give up a guaranteed 2 to tie the game or take the chance to close out and attempt to contest a 3. People criticizing Murray but anyone in that situation would have lured towards the paint. Dejounte was caught in a bad position and of course he's getting the blame even though he or Derrick should have been guarding trae to begin with.

No, you stay with your man out on the arc to prevent them from having an open 3 to win the game. Period.

[RC_Drunkford]

For all the talk about how Pop treats his stars the same as everyone else, he's had a long habit of scapegoating certain players who get hung out to dry by the bad play of others.

That's a myth. It was the case with Duncan, but other than that he always had his favorites and his whipping boys.

[JeffDuncan]

No, you stay with your man out on the arc to prevent them from having an open 3 to win the game. Period.


Murray did not have a "your man" to stay with in that situation. When Mills and Poeltl doubled Young, it forced zone defense on Murray, White and DDR, because you cannot play man-on-man when it's 3 against 4.

Also, if you watch it, you'll see Collins body up against Murray, to slow him down. It was a designed play by the Hawks. It worked.

[R. DeMurre]

Empty stats? He’s for sure pulling his weight and playing great. What else do you want him to do? it’s comical that you’re placing the blame on him, doesn’t help when he’s on the floor he’s also accompanied by Forbes.

Check out his career stats-- unlike every other superstar, he's had mediocre advanced stats for a decade. Do you think it's a coincidence that all of the MVP candidates are in the top 10 for RPM year after year? That's what a superstar is supposed to do-- make your team better while he's on the floor. If not for the bench, the Spurs' record would be worse than it already is. It's comical that you think DeRozan is some kind of a big positive force because he scores a bunch of points. Take a look at Portland now and their winning percentage with Carmelo putting up his points... again, empty stats.

[emanueldavidginobili]

Check out his career stats-- unlike every other superstar, he's had mediocre advanced stats for a decade. Do you think it's a coincidence that all of the MVP candidates are in the top 10 for RPM year after year? That's what a superstar is supposed to do-- make your team better while he's on the floor. If not for the bench, the Spurs' record would be worse than it already is. It's comical that you think DeRozan is some kind of a big positive force because he scores a bunch of points. Take a look at Portland now and their winning percentage with Carmelo putting up his points... again, empty stats.
And what do you think the Spurs record would be without DeMar this season? Also We’re not about to compare Melo to DDR :lol I’m talking about this last stretch the stretch that you brought up. I’m not talking about his whole career. This last stretch he has been great 28/5.7/6/1.2 steals while shooting 63% what else do you want him to do? Pass it to Forbes more often? He deserves a lot of the credit for beating the Bucks, Celtics, and Raptors. I’m not a fan of DeMar but this 6-7 record does not fall on him at all.

[DPG21920]

Crazy thing is SA record could be worse! They won like all 5 OT games.

[Capt Bringdown]

Crazy thing is SA record could be worse! They won like all 5 OT games.

Sometimes good, sometimes bad = mediocrity
I have zero faith that this team can put together a significant stretch of impressive games, much less win a playoff series.
Could this be the first year in a long, long while that Spursfans hope the team does not make the playoffs?

[RC_Drunkford]

Crazy thing is SA record could be worse! They won like all 5 OT games.

their record could also be better if the head coach wouldn't sabotage the team. They lost about 10 games because of him

[R. DeMurre]

And what do you think the Spurs record would be without DeMar this season? Also We’re not about to compare Melo to DDR :lol I’m talking about this last stretch the stretch that you brought up. I’m not talking about his whole career. This last stretch he has been great 28/5.7/6/1.2 steals while shooting 63% what else do you want him to do? Pass it to Forbes more often? He deserves a lot of the credit for beating the Bucks, Celtics, and Raptors. I’m not a fan of DeMar but this 6-7 record does not fall on him at all.

Why aren't you a fan of his?

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I had serious Deja Vu with Mills "covering" Trae Young down the stretch. Dumb idea the first time we lost to the g'damn Hawks! Pop has lost his mind.