Dejounte Murray is the Worst player on the team aside from Bryn Forbes

[Collins21]

I can say without a shadow of a doubt that Murray staring is one of the reasons this team is garbage. This dude can't run an offense, doesn't know how to run in transition and is reluctant to shoot. White is much better and coming into the season I thought that was laughable but when watching the Spurs I feel so much more comfortable watching White run the show. Then you have Spurs fans on twitter that defend DJ like he's god but he sucks right now and if he's your starting PG you will be in the lottery for years. If the Spurs don't get a top 5 pick I'll be glad when they Draft Nico Mannon as the PG of the future.

[TDMVPDPOY]

this pos got an extension so quick compared to other current/former spurs after their rookie contracts, hasnt proven shit

[K...]

He's still a trade able asset, keep playing him. I'm thinking it's very likely he'll be traded because he's just not good enough around

[cd98]

He was a selling point to Kawhi. Maybe that’s why Kawhi left.

[talkspurs]

I still think he will be a good player. Pop is holding the young players back. I think if Pop was letting him play we would see him more like he started the season. Once Pop is gone he will be better.

[phxspurfan]

Agree that he’s been bad tbh. Can’t run offense bc can’t dribble and can’t shoot. Start White tbh

[TDMVPDPOY]

only thing his good at is being IG kent and opening his big mouth about kawhi, only not to back it up..

patfo fail when they extended him

[SpurPadre]

He's been bad but so has White, tbh.

[Genovaswitness]

mans is coming off an ACL injury. the sniffer squad needs its targets :lmao

[GAustex]

Ok when is the coming off an injury (more than a year ago) no longer an excuse?

[tbdog]

Ok when is the coming off an injury (more than a year ago) no longer an excuse?

Takes a season regardless. But in saying that, Pop had used him differently. Spurs should be playing faster and he should be going after offensive rebounds.

[GAustex]

So next year when he is all healed up his basketball acumen will improve?
I hope so.

[GAustex]

In fairness the two studs on the Spurs DDR and LMA want to play at a plodding one on one pace and that does not suit Murray’s game

[Collins21]

So next year when he is all healed up his basketball acumen will improve?
I hope so.

Hell Zach Lavine tore his ACL but when he returned he still l=knew how to play basketball. Then you have weirdos on Spurs Twitter claiming that Murray is a better player than DeRozan smh!!

[BackHome]

Man so many drama queens in this board were the hell did they all come from?

[BlackAndWhite]

He could be a reason the spurs are struggling. With him out a whole year, the spurs had a great season last year. It was in fact one of my favorite seasons. The team had little talent but played cohesively and significantly overachieved. Murray was one of the main addition and this year the spurs struggled tremendously. The two things could be coincidental but they could also be related.

[Collins21]

He could be a reason the spurs are struggling. With him out a whole year, the spurs had a great season last year. It was in fact one of my favorite seasons. The team had little talent but played cohesively and significantly overachieved. Murray was one of the main addition and this year the spurs struggled tremendously. The two things could be coincidental but they could also be related.

Exactly the 2nd half of last season was fun as hell.

[phxspurfan]

He could be a reason the spurs are struggling. With him out a whole year, the spurs had a great season last year. It was in fact one of my favorite seasons. The team had little talent but played cohesively and significantly overachieved. Murray was one of the main addition and this year the spurs struggled tremendously. The two things could be coincidental but they could also be related.

Basically this. I wanted to (and did) pay to watch games in person last year bc the team was more fun. This year it’s shit, and Murray being shoe horned into the offense is a big reason. That and Bert is gone, who always was around to hit big shots. Now we rely on Forbes who sucks ass.

[BlackAndWhite]

I really wish Derozan wasn't banged up in January last year. It really took off some of the momentum he built in a great start to the season.

[BlackAndWhite]

I watched all 82 games that season and even though there were some terrible games, there were a lot more thrilling victories that really brought optimism going into the playoffs. This season, even though we did beat some teams, including good ones, I have yet seen one victory that gives me any optimism. When we win, we barely squeak past the opponent and when we lose it is in an embarrassing fashion.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Murray will improve but his issues are obvious and he's a player who needs specific types of players around him to cover for his weaknesses, while not being good enough to warrant having a team built around him. In the right situation he could grow to have a Draymond Green type of impact but the way this current team is constructed he'd really be better off coming off the bench if he wasn't so insecure and pouty.

[RC_Drunkford]

He's been bad cause he's not a PG. He's a 3-and-D SG and can be a better one than Danny Green

[EasyMoney]

He could be a reason the spurs are struggling. With him out a whole year, the spurs had a great season last year. It was in fact one of my favorite seasons. The team had little talent but played cohesively and significantly overachieved. Murray was one of the main addition and this year the spurs struggled tremendously. The two things could be coincidental but they could also be related.


This year, Bryn, Marco, and rudy suddenly forgot how to shoot. But let's blame the poor kid who's coming off a torn acl . I give dejounte until next februarys trade deadline.

[venitian navigator]

Came on guys, its impossible to say the thread title is not true...
The fact is that:
1) DJM just came back from a season ending injury that takes usually an entire season to be forgotten;
2) DJM has always had limited court vision and limited outside shooting...otherwise no way he was available with our pick;
3) What he had was athletic skills notb that easy to find and a strong will to learn and develop...that's what has made him precious in the patfo eyes...
4) before the injury he showed improvement in his court vision and after the injury he has shown improvement in his shooting skills
5) that said what he probably will have very limited chance to improve is his feel for the game...and that is bad, very bad for what should be considered our starting and finishing pg...

DJM is a poor's man Westbrook, whose skills are more oriented in the defense than in the offense...he relies on his athletic skills and not in his feeling for the game skills.
That's why I think he's gonna improve a lot next season (till the vhance to be an al star player), but that's also why I would never give him the reins of the team.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

He's been bad cause he's not a PG. He's a 3-and-D SG and can be a better one than Danny Green

Disagree - his best defense comes against PGs, not against wings. And a 3-D SG shoots. Murray is extremely reluctant to shoot. He's at his best being an off the ball PG with a point forward type of player next to him, but he still needs to shoot and hit a lot of 3s and he's a long way off right now.

[slick'81]

Disagree - his best defense comes against PGs, not against wings. And a 3-D SG shoots. Murray is extremely reluctant to shoot. He's at his best being an off the ball PG with a point forward type of player next to him, but he still needs to shoot and hit a lot of 3s and he's a long way off right now.


Murray is definitely more effective guarding 1's

[ceperez]

I watched all 82 games that season and even though there were some terrible games, there were a lot more thrilling victories that really brought optimism going into the playoffs. This season, even though we did beat some teams, including good ones, I have yet seen one victory that gives me any optimism. When we win, we barely squeak past the opponent and when we lose it is in an embarrassing fashion.

We had Bertans in the team and his shooting got the Spurs in games that weren't winnable.

[monty4329]

We had Bertans in the team and his shooting got the Spurs in games that weren't winnable.

Funny how ST 'experts' last year were roasting Davis as unplayable, while the Spurs had the best bech in the league. Usually they are the same people that are infatuated with Lonnie today. Meantime Bertans scorches it, is worth more than a 1st pick and Lonnie bricks them when not busy jumping, missing dunks, getting his layups blocked or trying to find his lost man on D.

PO in-game management aside, last year was masterful on so many levels.

[RC_Drunkford]

Disagree - his best defense comes against PGs, not against wings. And a 3-D SG shoots. Murray is extremely reluctant to shoot. He's at his best being an off the ball PG with a point forward type of player next to him, but he still needs to shoot and hit a lot of 3s and he's a long way off right now.

Yes he's reluctant to shoot, but shoots a nice percentage. He just has to up the volume. I still think he should start at the 2 and let Derrick White play point. That would fix a lot on this team and it would let DJ focus on shooting 3s and defending. If you groom him into a PG he has to work on too many things at once

[bdictjames]

Takes a season regardless. But in saying that, Pop had used him differently. Spurs should be playing faster and he should be going after offensive rebounds.
Faster with LMA?

[tbdog]

Faster with LMA?

LMA should be playing less so he can run more.

[tbdog]

Funny how ST 'experts' last year were roasting Davis as unplayable, while the Spurs had the best bech in the league. Usually they are the same people that are infatuated with Lonnie today. Meantime Bertans scorches it, is worth more than a 1st pick and Lonnie bricks them when not busy jumping, missing dunks, getting his layups blocked or trying to find his lost man on D.

PO in-game management aside, last year was masterful on so many levels.

Bertans was unplayable against the Nuggets. He is also playing on a bad side right now and for one of the worst defensive sides. So no one is noticing other than box scores.

[bdictjames]

LMA should be playing less so he can run more.
So we're not gonna play defense then? We're essentially the '05 Suns?

I think the Spurs' bread and butter is their half-court game. That's where Demar and LMA excel at. Unfortunately, we haven't found a point guard to run the offense. Heck, even Tony Parker could run this show here, and do a better job, than DJ. You just need someone who can run the offense, and run it well, and we'd be good.

[tbdog]

So we're not gonna play defense then? We're essentially the '05 Suns?

I think the Spurs' bread and butter is their half-court game. That's where Demar and LMA excel at. Unfortunately, we haven't found a point guard to run the offense. Heck, even Tony Parker could run this show here, and do a better job, than DJ. You just need someone who can run the offense, and run it well, and we'd be good.

Sure, a player like Teague would run our offense well. Still, with the team we have, Murray, White, Mills, Walker, even DD play well with more tempo. Gay is probably the one that plays the slowest this year.

[bdictjames]

Sure, a player like Teague would run our offense well. Still, with the team we have, Murray, White, Mills, Walker, even DD play well with more tempo. Gay is probably the one that plays the slowest this year.
I still think Murray is too loose with the basketball. I agree with everyone though. It just makes me cringe every time I see DJM handle the basketball.

[bdictjames]

This video is an example that when Murray handles the basketball, the Spurs' offense just looks discombobulated. These are full highlights.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5jSnSNjIlA

[tholdren]

mans is coming off an ACL injury. the sniffer squad needs its targets :lmao

What does acl have to do with low iq, no dribbling or passing skills and mo court vision?

[C-Dub]

LMA is the worst player on the team if you factor in how much money he is making and never really moves the needle on offense or defense. He is flat out M.I.A. in a lot of games. DJM will turn out better than average. DJM, LW4 and Poeltl would all be a better player in another system (freedom to be yourself when playing) just like Bertans and Kawhi. The Spurs are known for taking g-league players and making them look better than what they really are as noticed when they some other team signs them for money and they don't produce the same but players with potential the Spurs hold back their careers.

[DJR210]

He was a selling point to Kawhi. Maybe that’s why Kawhi left.

:lol

[dbreiden83080]

This season is depressing.

[Chinook]

I've said this many times, but Murray got way too much hype in his second season. On offense, he was terrible outside of a couple of good (nationally televised) games. He was never a defensive stopper in the sense that he couldn't shut anyone down. Instead, his defense was supposed to rely on a more nebulous off-ball effect that he had the benefit of doing because he had Danny Green (who, no guys, was actually one of the best three-and-D wings in NBA history and not a expected level for young players to reach), Kyle Anderson (who's basically a bigger and much slower version of Murray defensively) and Aldridge. DJM synergized really well with a strong defensive core but was mistakenly thought to be the engine of that core rather than its primary beneficiary. I made that argument back then and got a ton of push-back by folks who just looked at his on-offs and considered defense a one-dimensional thing. He wasn't a bad defender, especially when you add in the off-ball, and he actually did improve in some aspects this year due to gaining more muscle. But his flaws (including his lack of defensive BBIQ) are a lot more apparent when he has to be the defensive foundation rather than just the tone-setter.

Offensively, Murray's lack of handles is disturbing for a fourth-year player. He's arguably the worst driver on the team. According to NBA.com's stats, (https://stats.nba.com/players/ball-handler/#!?CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*sas) Murray is the worst driver on the team outside of Walker, and in Lonnie's case, it's more because he can't freaking finish at the rim. Murray turns the ball over way more. White and DeRozan are both elite at it. Mills is pretty good. Even Forbes is average at it. His improved shooting gives him hope, but he's not knocking them down at a rate where you can consider him the primary off-ball shooter in a slower lineup. I've frequently said that he'd've been better off coming off the bench this season. It's amazing that Pop seems to have completely alienated Carroll and strained his relationship with Walker but quickly caved to Murray when he was benched. That was a fight worth having. though it should have been avoided in the first place. Right now, I think he just needs to "git gud" rather than trying to build a unit to feature him. Maybe handles aren't fixable, but if that's the case, he needs to shoot better and more confidently and fix his finishing to where he can score on back cuts and rim runs at a decent level.

Just to be clear, Metu is the worst player on the team by a lot. Forbes is definitely the worst player in the rotation and Murray probably isn't too far ahead of him. Walker and Beli have actually been interchangeable in terms of impact, which has a ton to do with Pop not focusing on working Lonnie into the offense. But Walker's individual defense has been really bad this year. His impact stats actually put him pretty high for his position, but when it comes to actually stopping people from scoring on him, he's arguably at Forbes levels of bad. Clearly, being pulled every time Walker has a lapse hasn't fixed the issue, so Pop probably should just let the guy figure it out. Murray's in that tier with Gay and Lyles where you expect him to be a good contributor but he has so many bad or disappointing games that you can't count on it. Not the worst player but clearly behind DMDR, LMA, Poeltl, Mills and White right now.

[FkLA]

I've said this many times, but Murray got way too much hype in his second season. On offense, he was terrible outside of a couple of good (nationally televised) games. He was never a defensive stopper in the sense that he couldn't shut anyone down. Instead, his defense was supposed to rely on a more nebulous off-ball effect that he had the benefit of doing because he had Danny Green (who, no guys, was actually one of the best three-and-D wings in NBA history and not a expected level for young players to reach), Kyle Anderson (who's basically a bigger and much slower version of Murray defensively) and Aldridge. DJM synergized really well with a strong defensive core but was mistakenly thought to be the engine of that core rather than its primary beneficiary. I made that argument back then and got a ton of push-back by folks who just looked at his on-offs and considered defense a one-dimensional thing. He wasn't a bad defender, especially when you add in the off-ball, and he actually did improve in some aspects this year due to gaining more muscle. But his flaws (including his lack of defensive BBIQ) are a lot more apparent when he has to be the defensive foundation rather than just the tone-setter.

Offensively, Murray's lack of handles is disturbing for a fourth-year player. He's arguably the worst driver on the team. According to NBA.com's stats, (https://stats.nba.com/players/ball-handler/#!?CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*sas) Murray is the worst driver on the team outside of Walker, and in Lonnie's case, it's more because he can't freaking finish at the rim. Murray turns the ball over way more. White and DeRozan are both elite at it. Mills is pretty good. Even Forbes is average at it. His improved shooting gives him hope, but he's not knocking them down at a rate where you can consider him the primary off-ball shooter in a slower lineup. I've frequently said that he'd've been better off coming off the bench this season. It's amazing that Pop seems to have completely alienated Carroll and strained his relationship with Walker but quickly caved to Murray when he was benched. That was a fight worth having. though it should have been avoided in the first place. Right now, I think he just needs to "git gud" rather than trying to build a unit to feature him. Maybe handles aren't fixable, but if that's the case, he needs to shoot better and more confidently and fix his finishing to where he can score on back cuts and rim runs at a decent level.

:tu


Just to be clear, Metu is the worst player on the team by a lot. Forbes is definitely the worst player in the rotation and Murray probably isn't too far ahead of him.

Forms is way ahead of everyone for the worst player in the rotation title.


Walker and Beli have actually been interchangeable in terms of impact, which has a ton to do with Pop not focusing on working Lonnie into the offense.

Kinda fair. Not only not working him into the offense, but also completely neutering him. A lot more timid than he was earlier in the year. Pop has basically let him know that he sees him as just a defender and that that's how he will get minutes (this yr at least).



But Walker's individual defense has been really bad this year. His impact stats actually put him pretty high for his position, but when it comes to actually stopping people from scoring on him, he's arguably at Forbes levels of bad.

Blasphemous.

[monty4329]

Bertans was unplayable against the Nuggets. He is also playing on a bad side right now and for one of the worst defensive sides. So no one is noticing other than box scores.

Actually he was roasted here the whole season, not just for the PO series. True that he now plays for a horrible team where is easier to find minutes and pad stats. Still, you have to make those shots. We missed him badly this seson.

[jermaine]

This is true. But dumb ass Spurs fans want some kinda hope so they think this nigga is our defensive savior. He fucking sucks ass. A whole yr to sit an he can shoot 50% from the field. Posting IG videos against the Spurs staff. Fooled all of our asses

[spurspl]

DjM iS aN aLl StAr CaLiBeR pLayEr

[sasaint]

He's been bad cause he's not a PG. He's a 3-and-D SG and can be a better one than Danny Green

Thank you, sir! Been saying it from the get-go. Pop is ruining both Derrick and Dijon by forcing them to play out-of-position.

[BlackAndWhite]

I agree. I remember when the spurs were eliminated by the nuggets, most of the players were in disbelief that it happened to them. They definitely believed they could have gone much farther. Can't say this mentality exists this season.

[Leetonidas]

He's been not great. But he has also shown flashes of greatness here and there. He has been incredibly disappointing this year for sure, but we need to keep in mind this dude is coming off an ACL tear and didn't play for a year. I'll give him another season before I give up on him

[paperboy77]

Y’all are deflecting. Pop is the problem. He should be playing to their strengths. Murray should be playing tough d and hitting the boards. A distant second should be shooting. Start DJ and White and play them 30+ minutes. Shorten the rotation to DJ, DW, DD, LA, TL. JP, PM and LW. Ride or die with this group.

[duncan2k5]

I can say without a shadow of a doubt that Murray staring is one of the reasons this team is garbage. This dude can't run an offense, doesn't know how to run in transition and is reluctant to shoot. White is much better and coming into the season I thought that was laughable but when watching the Spurs I feel so much more comfortable watching White run the show. Then you have Spurs fans on twitter that defend DJ like he's god but he sucks right now and if he's your starting PG you will be in the lottery for years. If the Spurs don't get a top 5 pick I'll be glad when they Draft Nico Mannon as the PG of the future.

Nah...he doesn't have to be a prototypical pg...he needs to be a scoring and defense pg...the one thing I agree with u on is that dude is timid as fuck...he needs to be taking 15 shots a game at least, but he has been neutered by Pop and cowered into submission by LMA and DDR

[duncan2k5]

this pos got an extension so quick compared to other current/former spurs after their rookie contracts, hasnt proven shit

LMA got a contract at the start of the season after he demanded a trade and choked in the playoffs

[duncan2k5]

Hell Zach Lavine tore his ACL but when he returned he still l=knew how to play basketball. Then you have weirdos on Spurs Twitter claiming that Murray is a better player than DeRozan smh!!

DDR is more talented...but we will never win with him...we can win with prime Murray

[duncan2k5]

He could be a reason the spurs are struggling. With him out a whole year, the spurs had a great season last year. It was in fact one of my favorite seasons. The team had little talent but played cohesively and significantly overachieved. Murray was one of the main addition and this year the spurs struggled tremendously. The two things could be coincidental but they could also be related.

Everyone else got better...we slgot worse (no bertans)...and last year's team barely made the playoffs, and we're nearly unwatchable

[duncan2k5]

And let me just say... Giannis wouldn't be an MVP if he was surrounded by ppl that couldn't shoot and played slow... Murray is a young player that has ppl around him that don't maximize his strengths... What do u expect to happen?

[duncan2k5]

So we're not gonna play defense then? We're essentially the '05 Suns?

I think the Spurs' bread and butter is their half-court game. That's where Demar and LMA excel at. Unfortunately, we haven't found a point guard to run the offense. Heck, even Tony Parker could run this show here, and do a better job, than DJ. You just need someone who can run the offense, and run it well, and we'd be good.
Bread and butter? It's looking more like cheese and crackers

[RC_Drunkford]

You just need someone who can run the offense, and run it well, and we'd be good.

The player that can run the offense comes off the bench every game playing 23 minutes. Derrick White needs to start. Said that before the season started and it's the main problem of this team right after Bryn Forbes being a starter

[spurspl]

And let me just say... Giannis wouldn't be an MVP if he was surrounded by ppl that couldn't shoot and played slow... Murray is a young player that has ppl around him that don't maximize his strengths... What do u expect to happen?

first of all murray needs to improve handling. Second of all to maximize his strenght u need to put two athletic bigs and two excelent 3pt shooters. Good luck

[dbestpro]

Murray has skills but like most of the team he is stupid when it comes to basketball.

[RC_Drunkford]

Murray has skills but like most of the team he is stupid when it comes to basketball.

just like his coach

[superbigtime]

he just isn't that good. or smart.

[acoelho1]

:fro...

[Chinook]

I hope he plays better continuously. But guys streak up and down all the time.

[acoelho1]

Your just a poor talent evaluator.

[Chinook]

Your just a poor talent evaluator.

More that you're just a dude who can't take any criticism about Murray and were sitting on this thread for days hoping he'd have a good game so you could bump it.

[acoelho1]

Just calling out your bias against Murray.

[DPG21920]

Murray has been bad this season (despite moments) overall. However, these glimpses show you the upside and that at a minimum his deal will be fair with a strong shot at being a value.

[itzsoweezee]

Murray is the least of the Spurs problems. If you blame Murray before you blame Pop, DeMar, Forbes, and Bellineli, you don't know shit about basketball

[MannyIsGod]

I get the argument that some overrated Murray but his extension sure as hell didn't point to being overrated. That contract is at best a hell of a bargain and at worst fine. Murray has the tools. If anyone had come in here and pointed to his shooting stats being this good (and frankly the eye test says that his shot is fantastic) then almost no one would have thought he would be considered a bad player. He's definitely struggled with his handling of the ball and he does suffer from not knowing what to do, but he also is playing on a Spurs team with the absolute worst spacing and execution that anyone here has witnessed. That doesn't mean that he's been good, it just means that he's a young inexperienced player in a tough position. Its hard to have your defense shine when you line up next to Bryn Forbes and DeRozan. Look at the times we see him out there with a more athletic and defensive minded line up. He's better.

Its also possible that he just turned a corner. He's had a few very good games in a row so we'll see if that continues. Either way, I'm still super high on Murray because he's got really good skills and he's still very young. I'm not sure if he's an all star level player, but he's definitely a player who will be solid in the NBA for many years to come.

[dbestpro]

Just calling out your bias against Murray.

I am bias as hell against Murray because I hate to watch stupid basketball. I can easily say I am bias against a whole bunch of Spurs and their head coach.

[rjv]

this thread brings home one constant: no matter how bad the Spurs PATFO (or any franchise in the NBA, for that matter) is, ST evaluators will always be worse.

[SAGirl]

He is not the worst player aside from bryn forbes. Troll thread. This team has Marco and Caroll lol
Frankly I'd like to see him be more consistent, but he has already had a string of good games. He's not going to score 25 every night, that is an All STar level production, but I'd like to see him continue in current trajectory and see how far he can go.

[rjv]

He is not the worst player aside from bryn forbes. Troll thread. This team has Marco and Caroll lol
Frankly I'd like to see him be more consistent, but he has already had a string of good games. He's not going to score 25 every night, that is an All STar level production, but I'd like to see him continue in current trajectory and see how far he can go.

and the thing is that he is passing the eye test as of late. he looks under control, his ball-handling is better. he doesn't seem to be rushing. his shot has nice mechanics and he isn't hesitating. he's also been more decisive about when to shoot or attack the rim. again, small sample size, but at least it's been in consecutive games as opposed to one game here and there. a nice and consistent end to the season would certainly be welcomed.

[sasaint]

and the thing is that he is passing the eye test as of late. he looks under control, his ball-handling is better. he doesn't seem to be rushing. his shot has nice mechanics and he isn't hesitating. he's also been more decisive about when to shoot or attack the rim. again, small sample size, but at least it's been in consecutive games as opposed to one game here and there. a nice and consistent end to the season would certainly be welcomed.

Exactly. Well put.

[RC_Drunkford]

kid is just a natural leader and he clearly wants to be great. He's gon kill it next season, but I'm really curious to see how he plays the next 28 games

https://twitter.com/FOXSportsSW/status/1227437682768465920?s=20https://twitter.com/FOXSportsSW/status/1227437682768465920?s=20https://twitter.com/FOXSportsSW/status/1227437682768465920?s=20

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I get the argument that some overrated Murray but his extension sure as hell didn't point to being overrated. That contract is at best a hell of a bargain and at worst fine. Murray has the tools. If anyone had come in here and pointed to his shooting stats being this good (and frankly the eye test says that his shot is fantastic) then almost no one would have thought he would be considered a bad player. He's definitely struggled with his handling of the ball and he does suffer from not knowing what to do, but he also is playing on a Spurs team with the absolute worst spacing and execution that anyone here has witnessed. That doesn't mean that he's been good, it just means that he's a young inexperienced player in a tough position. Its hard to have your defense shine when you line up next to Bryn Forbes and DeRozan. Look at the times we see him out there with a more athletic and defensive minded line up. He's better.

Its also possible that he just turned a corner. He's had a few very good games in a row so we'll see if that continues. Either way, I'm still super high on Murray because he's got really good skills and he's still very young. I'm not sure if he's an all star level player, but he's definitely a player who will be solid in the NBA for many years to come.

I agree. I'm still not completely sold that Murray can be a star, but his deal, even for a decent starter, is good by today's NBA standards. We wouldn't have gotten a better player at that price who's that young and still with tons of potential upside.

[Tragedy]

If you groom him into a PG he has to work on too many things at oncedo you think he can come off a pick and read when the big is laying off and make a simple foul line pull up?

https://i.imgur.com/68dGfYz.gif

https://i.imgur.com/1I941zp.gif

Until he can do that, wont matter how athletic he is, he will not be our guy going forward.

[Tragedy]

This video is an example that when Murray handles the basketball, the Spurs' offense just looks discombobulated. These are full highlights.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5jSnSNjIlA

looking at these highlights murray does not read coverages well.

murray gets two on ball screens the first one at 2:22. does not preliminarily space his defender prior to coming off the pick to stretch out the passing window to his big and open the floor up more which would have looked like this.

https://i.imgur.com/weLkEtH.gif

as result dribbles into congestion with poetl attempting to roll but not having the spacing for it. that is not poetl's fault. goes 1v1 and throws the ball away.

https://i.imgur.com/CBHCsgt.gif

if he initially requests a higher pick from his big he could have had more space to operate with and if he pulls out the defender prior to coming off the pick poetl gets a bigger passing window to receive the basketball than he was given. did not read the defense well here.

the other on ball screen is later on in the video.

https://i.imgur.com/gNzx0Eq.gif

curls around aldrige with the defender on his hip. passes up the best shot in basketball after the lay up, the foul line pull up, and hits aldrige late without drawing his defender away from him first forcing him to go 1v1. if he hits aldrige earlier it lets him catch it in stride and in rhythm to the basket which would have looked like this.

https://i.imgur.com/obXA6Jw.gif

needs to work on reading coverages, opening up his passing windows, and making the foul line pull up the defense is going to give him. if these highlights are indicative of the entire season it means he is not working off screens a lot which means he has been trying to score on his own a lot. there is your problem.

[sasaint]

looking at these highlights murray does not read coverages well.

murray gets two on ball screens the first one at 2:22. does not preliminarily space his defender prior to coming off the pick to stretch out the passing window to his big and open the floor up more which would have looked like this.

https://i.imgur.com/weLkEtH.gif

as result dribbles into congestion with poetl attempting to roll but not having the spacing for it. that is not poetl's fault. goes 1v1 and throws the ball away.

https://i.imgur.com/CBHCsgt.gif

if he initially requests a higher pick from his big he could have had more space to operate with and if he pulls out the defender prior to coming off the pick poetl gets a bigger passing window to receive the basketball than he was given. did not read the defense well here.

the other on ball screen is later on in the video.

https://i.imgur.com/gNzx0Eq.gif

curls around aldrige with the defender on this hip. passes up the best shot in basketball after the lay up, the foul line pull up, and hits aldrige late without drawing his defender away from him first forcing him to go 1v1. if he hits aldrige earlier it lets him catch it in stride and in rhythm to the basket which would have looked like this.

https://i.imgur.com/obXA6Jw.gif

needs to work on reading coverages, opening up his passing windows, and making the foul line pull up the defense is going to give him. if these highlights are indicative of the entire season it means he is not working off screens a lot which means he has been trying to score on his own a lot. there is your problem.

Thanks for taking the time to put together this excellent video tutorial.

[Play Boban]

this pos got an extension so quick compared to other current/former spurs after their rookie contracts, hasnt proven shit
Truth nuke per par :wow

[r0drig0lac]

https://i.imgur.com/iWIf69M.jpg
https://twitter.com/DejounteMurray/status/1228139730883076096

Who is the "anyone" the sees his growth as Competition?

spurstalk

[spurspl]

kid is just a natural leader and he clearly wants to be great. He's gon kill it next season, but I'm really curious to see how he plays the next 28 games

https://twitter.com/FOXSportsSW/status/1227437682768465920?s=20https://twitter.com/FOXSportsSW/status/1227437682768465920?s=20https://twitter.com/FOXSportsSW/status/1227437682768465920?s=20

just like he was gonna kill in this season? xd he wont be much better

[Collins21]

just like he was gonna kill in this season? xd he wont be much better

What does Spurspl mean anyway.

[Arcadian]

He's been bad cause he's not a PG. He's a 3-and-D SG and can be a better one than Danny Green

Idk about that...do you see him ever shooting 55% from 3 in a Finals series (as Danny did in 2013)?

[barakz21]

spurstalk

Good for Forbes. Only on the spurs will he be able to actually keep his role.

[Chucho]

LOL, the Anti Pop schtick crowd think this kid has real potential, just like Pop does.

[TimDunkem]

^I'm anti-Pop and I've been saying that the Spurs should have drafted Brogdon since the moment they selected Dejounte.

[KobesAchilles]

^I'm anti-Pop and I've been saying that the Spurs should have drafted Brogdon since the moment they selected Dejounte.
I was skeptical of Brogdon tbh bc of his pussy mentality in the playoffs but he no doubt has better skills than Murray. If he had Murray’s (IG) confidence though he would be the best guard in the East.

[tholdren]

https://i.imgur.com/iWIf69M.jpg
https://twitter.com/DejounteMurray/status/1228139730883076096

Who is the "anyone" the sees his growth as Competition?

Hes dumber than a rock. Worst pg. Worse than lonzo

[TimDunkem]

I was skeptical of Brogdon tbh bc of his pussy mentality in the playoffs but he no doubt has better skills than Murray. If he had Murray’s (IG) confidence though he would be the best guard in the East.

I think he's a gamer, tbh. Statistically, he takes and makes clutch buckets. Honestly, I didn't see much of him in the playoffs though. Still, I would rather have him over DJ.

[KobesAchilles]

I think he's a gamer, tbh. Statistically, he takes and makes clutch buckets. Honestly, I didn't see much of him in the playoffs though. Still, I would rather have him over DJ.
It’s a small sample size so it’s not like I base his whole career on it but he shrinks in the postseason. Last year he was coming off an injury and maybe that’s why he struggled but when I watch him play, it seems like the moment is too big for him. It’s fixable for sure and I agree about having him over DJ but if DJ were to hit then you’re looking at the same type of player anyway. The injury really cost Murray in his development. But him and White look good together in the few minutes they do share to court

[tholdren]

Current nba fans call a 6 foot 8 player who can dunk an athelete... lol

[RC_Drunkford]

he's actually getting there. You'd know if you had watched the last 3 games

[exstatic]

he's actually getting there. You'd know if you had watched the last 3 games

It's amazing how good ALL of our young players look, sans Demar.

[XDT76]

do you think he can come off a pick and read when the big is laying off and make a simple foul line pull up?

Until he can do that, wont matter how athletic he is, he will not be our guy going forward.

I always feel that he should be the 2 guard with White being our PG especially with Murray improving at the 3 ptr. Plus I somehow feel that the 2 of team are genuine friends rather than just teammates. Their back court would be very good and I hope it happens when DDR and Forbes leave in the upcoming off season.

[TimDunkem]

I always feel that he should be the 2 guard with White being our PG especially with Murray improving at the 3 ptr. Plus I somehow feel that the 2 of team are genuine friends rather than just teammates. Their back court would be very good and I hope it happens when DDR and Forbes leave in the upcoming off season.Oh...You poor deluded bastard.

[XDT76]

Oh...You poor deluded bastard.

One can always hope.

[KobesAchilles]

One can always hope.
The dude is getting a 3 year $21 million deal in the summer. I can’t wait to browse this forum when it happens :lol

[TimDunkem]

The dude is getting a 3 year $21 million deal in the summer. I can’t wait to browse this forum when it happens :lol

That's a best case scenario. I can easily see them throwing more money at Fobbes.

[look_at_g_shred]

DJ just commented on Lonnie’s IG post “I swear we gone take over this shit when we get the OPPORTUNITY Brother” The post was struggling together and eventually reaping the benefits of it. It’s a pic of Lonnie and Dj embracing.

Shade at DeRozan ???

[hombre]

Nah, but they almost there though.

[John B]

Murray with 23 pts, 7 rebs and 4 assists. His mid-range off a screen is money tbh

[duncan2k5]

Been telling ppl for at least a month or two now that Murray's jumper is pretty good... And the team is better when he is aggressive tryi g to score and going to the basket... He needs at least 15 shots a game, imo... He has much more impact than anyone else

[Harry Callahan]

DJ is WAY more comfortable now than earlier in the season. He's trusting his legs are sound again. Great to see. White and DJM hopefully will both be in the guard rotation for the next 4-5 years. Even if one is a bench guy (like Manu), these two players can make it happen when the Spurs get a solid roster in place at some point in the future (hopefully).

[Chinook]

Murray is playing better. Full stop. That's clearly the case. His shot is better, he has more confidence in getting to his spots, but he's not quite as wild as he used to be.

But I also don't know that he's being challenged defensively. Like Murray's handles aren't very good, but if no one is pressuring him, they are good enough for him to not dribble off his feet. His midrange consistency is really nice, and it's critical if he's to be a high-option player. But I still feel like it was a poor developmental choice to have him focus on those shots rather than threes and put-backs. Murray being able to get his own shot is nice, but him being able to play with other higher-option guys seemed more important, especially since the Spurs actively choose to bring in DeRozan rather than move Murray up. Yes, Murray's three has been better as of late, but he still doesn't seem comfortable shooting if it's not wide open. It was a really weird choice by Pop to go into this season with so many midrange shooters then try to choice two "designated floor-spacers" into the rotation to make up for it. Back a couple of months ago, I said that DJM, DMDR and LMA needed to start taking threes even if their percentages weren't good. We're seeing that with DJM and LMA, but DeRozan is still holding the team back in that regard.

I hope Murray remains a productive player. It's not realistic to expect him to average 20ppg without more improvement to his game, but he can play within himself and pick his spots and still get mid-teens points every night on decent efficiency. I think he'll have more games where he'll struggle though because mid-range shooting is rarely consistent, and he's getting a huge percentage of his points there. I feels like an unsustainable source of points, and he'll need to work in more efficient sources to secure his numbers.

[KobesAchilles]

Murray is playing better. Full stop. That's clearly the case. His shot is better, he has more confidence in getting to his spots, but he's not quite as wild as he used to be.

But I also don't know that he's being challenged defensively. Like Murray's handles aren't very good, but if no one is pressuring him, they are good enough for him to not dribble off his feet. His midrange consistency is really nice, and it's critical if he's to be a high-option player. But I still feel like it was a poor developmental choice to have him focus on those shots rather than threes and put-backs. Murray being able to get his own shot is nice, but him being able to play with other higher-option guys seemed more important, especially since the Spurs actively choose to bring in DeRozan rather than move Murray up. Yes, Murray's three has been better as of late, but he still doesn't seem comfortable shooting if it's not wide open. It was a really weird choice by Pop to go into this season with so many midrange shooters then try to choice two "designated floor-spacers" into the rotation to make up for it. Back a couple of months ago, I said that DJM, DMDR and LMA needed to start taking threes even if their percentages weren't good. We're seeing that with DJM and LMA, but DeRozan is still holding the team back in that regard.

I hope Murray remains a productive player. It's not realistic to expect him to average 20ppg without more improvement to his game, but he can play within himself and pick his spots and still get mid-teens points every night on decent efficiency. I think he'll have more games where he'll struggle though because mid-range shooting is rarely consistent, and he's getting a huge percentage of his points there. I feels like an unsustainable source of points, and he'll need to work in more efficient sources to secure his numbers.
His entire shooting mechanics were garbage. I mean when he came in as a rookie he was taking 15 foot floaters bc his jump shot was so bad. You don’t just become a good 3 point shooter without a good midrange. You hear Reggie and D3 talk about it all the time. You start at like 12 feet and then work your way backwards.

Also teams today are so focused on the 3 ball that they are coaching to give up the open midrange shot. That’s the shot that coaches today preach to give up. Murray should have more open looks than not just bc of the defensive philosophy of today’s game. Contested 2s aren’t sustainable, but wide open ones are totally sustainable

[BD24]

You dumb fucks never learn do you?

Faggots with their knee jerk reactions :lol

[Tung]

Agreed! Murray just won the Jazz game for Spurs and will start against OKC for a possible W on Sunday!

[acoelho1]

I hope Murray remains a productive player. It's not realistic to expect him to average 20ppg without more improvement to his game, but he can play within himself and pick his spots and still get mid-teens points every night on decent efficiency. I think he'll have more games where he'll struggle though because mid-range shooting is rarely consistent, and he's getting a huge percentage of his points there. I feels like an unsustainable source of points, and he'll need to work in more efficient sources to secure his numbers.

His shooting improvement is considerably better from where he was prior to the injury so there is no reason to believe it won’t continue to improve. He has a smooth shooting stroke and just needs to continue to improve on his footwork and balance. I don’t see anything in his mechanics (other than a bit slow) that he won’t be a very good 3pt shooter. As far as sustainability, as long as he stays aggressive, his average will rise. Also, not sure what game you watched but there was a few possessions where Murray shot with his man right on him. Lastly his defense will create offense opportunities as it did tonight.

[Tragedy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAdYPATpPJY

murray went 10/16 on 62% shooting and i counted 7 of those shots came using picks. he went 6/7 on 86% shooting using a pick and 4/9 on 44% shooting trying to score on his own. so murray shoots better using a pick.

the reason you are going to shoot better coming off a pick is because the defense is giving you the shot.

https://i.imgur.com/X1HqbsA.gif

murray is going to score a lot of points for the spurs when the defense is giving us that shot. that is a good, dependable shot. when the defense is not giving us that shot, because the defender is going under the screen, murray is going to have to make the deep 2 or the 3 the defense is giving up or the defense is going to keep forcing us to try to make that shot.

what i want to see murray doing when the defender is going under the screen and trying to force us to shoot a deep 2 or a 3, is to wait for the defender to try to come up around the screen and then just pull the defender back into the screen and get the shot you want.

https://i.imgur.com/24yTyUF.gif

dont just take the screen you are given. line up and slam the defender back into a hard screen. you will shoot better.

https://i.imgur.com/VjP3t8q.gif

but everything starts with coming off the pick and just making the pull up when the defense is giving you that shot. then you can work on making the deep 2 and the 3 now when the defense is giving you that shot. when you can do that, then the defense is going to start sending the double team at you. and then we can really start playing like the spurs.

https://i.imgur.com/08KJhsn.gif

murray comes off the pick and when the big steps up, hit the wing, hit the roller, hit the corner. one day i hope we get to see that play. but all that comes down to murray making the shots the defense is going to give him when he is using a pick. and all that starts with coming off the pick and making the pull up.

[emanueldavidginobili]

32 assist 3 turnovers during the RRT.

[SAGirl]

Dejounte shitting on haters. At least a breath of fresh air in the season.

[RC_Drunkford]

I assume Pop is trying to develop him like Tony. The midrange was Tony's weapon.

Also the biggest trait DJ has is his fearlessness. The kid is clutch cause he's not scared of the big moment. White needs some of that attitude

[SAGirl]

I assume Pop is trying to develop him like Tony. The midrange was Tony's weapon.

Also the biggest trait DJ has is his fearlessness. The kid is clutch cause he's not scared of the big moment. White needs some of that attitude

I agree on that bolded statement. I have admired that from him from the very beginning, even when the skills were very raw and needing polishing. Him being able to develop those skills is the real eye opener. He already had the leadership, the competitive streak, and the fearlessness. The future looks bright if he's able to sustain it.

[KobesAchilles]

I knew from the beginning that I couldn’t really judge him until February. It just takes time coming back from that type of injury to play well/ trust your body. Not only that but Pop didn’t do him any favors by BOTH starting him and placing him on minutes restriction. IMO it was one or the other and not both. But Dejounte clearly has his legs under him now, he’s clearly studied the tape, he understands his sweet spots on the floor and is running the offense now much better.

Sidenote: how tf don’t opposing players just set a screen on Forbes every possession with their star player and whoever Forbes is originally guarding? The dude can’t fight over a screen to save his life and is getting roasted by like 3rd/4th options. I’m surprised they don’t do more to have the 1st option switch on him bc it’s a guaranteed bucket almost.

[rjv]

This thread just gets better and better.

[tholdren]

Bump

[spurspl]

what a game by dejounte vs okc

[TimDunkem]

Nice 2 games.

[tholdren]

Lol ig takeoverr boi

[Dejounte]

I can say without a shadow of a doubt that Murray staring is one of the reasons this team is garbage. This dude can't run an offense, doesn't know how to run in transition and is reluctant to shoot. White is much better and coming into the season I thought that was laughable but when watching the Spurs I feel so much more comfortable watching White run the show. Then you have Spurs fans on twitter that defend DJ like he's god but he sucks right now and if he's your starting PG you will be in the lottery for years. If the Spurs don't get a top 5 pick I'll be glad when they Draft Nico Mannon as the PG of the future.

This whole thread is gold tbh

[tonight...you]

This whole thread is gold tbh
This is why I don't take anyone here with even a grain of seriousness.

Ever.

[BacktoBasics]

Hes dumber than a rock. Worst pg. Worse than lonzo

Brilliant take. Tbh Lonzo looking like a hall of famer compared to Murray, an actual all star.

[tonight...you]

Brilliant take. Tbh Lonzo looking like a hall of famer compared to Murray, an actual all star.
I'm no fan of the dad, but I hate that Lonzo is going through these injuries.
He's pretty fun to watch.

[BacktoBasics]

I'm no fan of the dad, but I hate that Lonzo is going through these injuries.
He's pretty fun to watch.
I suppose it could happen to anyone but it sure does seem like his dad just over extended him way too early. He definitely looked like a good fit for Chicago. Would have been real interesting had he stayed healthy.