Spurs Have An Image Problem

[TD 21]

It's been starting them in the face for years and it's getting progressively worse. At first, the likes of Horry, Jackson, Blair, could be brushed off as malcontents who either wanted to extent their stay or play. Then it was whatever the hell happened with Dedmon, then it was some of Simmons' comments, then the Aldridge fiasco, the Scumbag saga, heck even subtle shots and/or frustration from the likes of Green, Anderson, Bertans, Murray, Walker and finally, the bizarre Carroll situation.

Most of these players have a two very obvious things in common: They're black American and millennial. That encompasses the majority of the league, particularly the upper crust.

They clearly perceive of this organization as being at best a dictatorship, replete with militaristic rigidity and a lack of freedom (many have referenced this) and at worst a plantation mentality.

These are the people they need to repair their image with, especially being in a non glamour market. They need to create an environment conducive to them, which means loosening the reigns on court and off court, promoting the individual, both publicly and privately.

[Spurtacular]

These young dumb ballers ain't overanalyzing that sh**. Kids just don't want to play in the butt hole of America.

[Collins21]

It's been starting them in the face for years and it's getting progressively worse. At first, the likes of Horry, Jackson, Blair, could be brushed off as malcontents who either wanted to extent their stay or play. Then it was whatever the hell happened with Dedmon, then it was some of Simmons' comments, then the Aldridge fiasco, the Scumbag saga, heck even subtle shots and/or frustration from the likes of Green, Anderson, Bertans, Murray, Walker and finally, the bizarre Carroll situation.

Most of these players have a two very obvious things in common: They're black American and millennial. That encompasses the majority of the league, particularly the upper crust.

They clearly perceive of this organization as being at best a dictatorship, replete with militaristic rigidity and a lack of freedom (many have referenced this) and at worst a plantation mentality.

These are the people they need to repair their image with, especially being in a non glamour market. They need to create an environment conducive to them, which means loosening the reigns on court and off court, promoting the individual, both publicly and privately.

This couldn't be any further from the truth. This organization employs and promotes multiple players on this roster with questionable reputations. Hell just look at the roster two of the most popular players on this team are very urban and have possible gang ties. The Spurs allow DJ o be himself on and off the court.

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

It's been starting them in the face for years and it's getting progressively worse. At first, the likes of Horry, Jackson, Blair, could be brushed off as malcontents who either wanted to extent their stay or play. Then it was whatever the hell happened with Dedmon, then it was some of Simmons' comments, then the Aldridge fiasco, the Scumbag saga, heck even subtle shots and/or frustration from the likes of Green, Anderson, Bertans, Murray, Walker and finally, the bizarre Carroll situation.

Most of these players have a two very obvious things in common: They're black American and millennial. That encompasses the majority of the league, particularly the upper crust.

They clearly perceive of this organization as being at best a dictatorship, replete with militaristic rigidity and a lack of freedom (many have referenced this) and at worst a plantation mentality.

These are the people they need to repair their image with, especially being in a non glamour market. They need to create an environment conducive to them, which means loosening the reigns on court and off court, promoting the individual, both publicly and privately.If they kept those players on the team then they would have a image problem.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol this again

[210baller]

They don’t have a image problem. They have a Pop problem

[KimmyGib]

Most of these players have a two very obvious things in common: They're black American and millennial.



Most of ALL NBA players have those 2 things in common. Another commonality is they're millionaires. Hmm, perhaps that is another piece to the puzzle. And gosh, they're all males TOO! I think we've cracked it!

Really though, I don't think age or race has anything to do with it. I think most people just don't want to have an asshole boss. And Pop's a stubborn asshole, tbh.

[cd021]

I don't think its a race problem, I do think its Pop's rigidity.

[Genovaswitness]

for whatever reason pop hasn’t jelled with American black players very well. I don’t think he’s a racist but he definitely can’t relate as well as other coaches..a shame when the largest talent pool is American black players

[hater]

the only image problem is Duncan looking like a homeless Ice T tbqh

[SpurPadre]

This couldn't be any further from the truth. This organization employs and promotes multiple players on this roster with questionable reputations. Hell just look at the roster two of the most popular players on this team are very urban and have possible gang ties. The Spurs allow DJ o be himself on and off the court.

:lmao gang ties...

[RD2191]

�� gang ties...

Demar might be a Crip iirc.

[RD2191]

the only image problem is Duncan looking like a homeless Ice T tbqh

:lol

[SpurPadre]

Demar might be a Crip iirc.

If that were true, he would've been murked already for all the depression talk. Those knuckleheads don't want to be perceived in that way at all.

[emanueldavidginobili]

1228091611114037249

[K...]

uhm until we send our star player a letter written in comic sans i won't go crazy. All small market teams have this problem! Atlanta had to fire Ferry, The clippers got rid of their racist owner.

If you are expecting the spurs to have a better reputation, why would you? The only reason we care now is we lack the talent to overcome it! players would suck it up because playing with TIM was a good thing. NO tim around, complain away. if LMA and derozan we better humans they could mediate, but they are clearly not great communicators.

[K...]

1228091611114037249

There are like 3 teams that are good places for these guys. Do people hate the spurs more than okc, Milwaukee, or the knicks?


And does it just come down to, not wanting to play for a loser?

[Genovaswitness]

1228091611114037249

horry keeping it real tbh. we need a youth infusion

[UZER]

It’s fun to have all these round and round conversations about the team’s problems, when in reality, the bottom line is that Pop just needs to retire, PERIOD. All of these “issues” can move in a new direction as soon as Pop releases the reins of this team.



Pop has become Warden Norton from Shawshank.


*on the floor of an empty AT&T Center after the Spurs just blew another lead, lights dim*

Pop: Son, you think if I give you a few minutes, you can contribute to the team on the floor.

Carroll: Just give me that chance.

Pop: *snuffs cigarette under his shoe, looks up at RC in the press box*

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

mmmmmmk

[Collins21]

Demar might be a Crip iirc.

Dejounte has possible Crip ties too thy don't really hide it either.

[Chinook]

Yes and no. I think people used to consider the Spurs "boring but good" and now that they aren't good anymore, they're just boring. The team badly needs/needed Murray to grow into a real star, since on it's face he seems like a guy who could present a strong image to his peers and even to newer fans. Add in their culture dying off and even the massive erosion of their privileged position with international players, and the team has a ton of work to do rebuilding their image. However, I don't think the buddy-buddy, recruit-a-superstar strategy was going to work anyway. The team is going to have to draft well, improve their depth with shrewd signings and improve with impact trades. If they become another inmate-run prison, they'll still be behind almost every other NBA team in terms of appeal. They're going to need a unique culture if they're going to sell guys on staying around. I think the familylike atmosphere they had during their heyday is best. Yeah, I don't really think that should involve Pop yelling at guys or being surly with the media. But it should still involve quirky shit like the HEB commercials, the United Nations clique and that stupid Grease cover.

Really (and you know I'm serious given how often I've defended them and will continue to do so) the issue isn't so much that the Spurs can't connect to the modern NBA player as it is that the Spurs can't be the Spurs anymore with DeRozan melting down if he doesn't get calls and Aldridge going into a shell if he doesn't start games off in rhythm. Like, you can't tear into those guys. On other teams, that probably wouldn't be an issue. But it undermines Pop's authority for him to have to take such a soft hand with all of his stars at once. That's why Walker seems to have a hard time with Pop's "tough love". That's why Forbes can make the same mistakes over and over and not stop reaching when he's not supposed or getting there late. He knows he'll get his minutes if he pretends he feels bad about the bad defense, because he still tries on that end more than the stars do. Murray knows he can sulk if he gets benched because he knows the Spurs need him to be the face of the franchise.

Honestly, Becky coaching a team led by White, Poeltl, and Mills would probably get a similar culture to Utah, Memphis or Indy almost immediately. Hopefully, Murray and Walker could be part of that, but the jury's still out on how they'd fit in such an environment. There are reasons why they wouldn't want to do that. They talent level would probably be lower. But I also think they could find enough guys who fit that culture to field a playoff-contending team just like those other clubs did.

[tholdren]

Kind of. They have lma. Hes a lazy soft player. Spurs have no competitors

[daslicer]

Stupid post by the OP which isn't shocking since he's the village idiot of ST. Anyways the problem with the Spurs image is Pop. Once Pop goes the image problem will go away. Any team in this current NBA that's not located in NYC,LA,Miami,Houston,Bay Area will have a problem keeping their star players. Since those are the areas all of the players want to play in. Spurs have no control over their location.

For me I just don't give a shit about these star players. If the Spurs end up with a superstar through the draft all I can say is we'll have that player for 7 years and after that it's crap shoot whether or not he stays. I definitely believe if the spurs can win a title in that 7 year span there is a 99 percent chance that the superstar player will stay. #2 is an exceptions to the rules but if Lebron was able to win in Cleveland he wouldn't have left in the first place. I believe if the bucks win it all this year or next year that Giannis will stay in Milwaukee.

[Ozballer]

The Spurs have a coach that is 70 yo and that made his craft out of old school discipline. He became one of the most successful coaches in the history of sport with his method. He is not about to change it now and today it is probably an era where EQ and SQ come more into play for team management success. Not Pop's neck of the woods. That problem will go with the coach going. The real image issue here is the NBA controlled by tantrum bound pseudo stars who are ruled weekly by their vaginas and throw franchises in disarray just because they did not get the right blow job on any given day. In that respect the NBA is a shame to organised professional world sport and a real conundrum.

[daslicer]

The Spurs have a coach that is 70 yo and that made his craft out of old school discipline. He became one of the most successful coaches in the history of sport with his method. He is not about to change it now and today it is probably an era where EQ and SQ come more into play for team management success. Not Pop's neck of the woods. That problem will go with the coach going. The real image issue here is the NBA controlled by tantrum bound pseudo stars who are ruled weekly by their vaginas and throw franchises in disarray just because they did not get the right blow job on any given day. In that respect the NBA is a shame to organised professional world sport and a real conundrum.

Pretty much this. It's a league that really tends to alienate you as you get older versus the other american sports leagues. Location matters more in the NBA then it does in football,hockey,baseball.

[playblair]

blair was mistreated by all u ungrateful fooks

[TD 21]

You people don't get it. Unfortunately and inexplicably, Pop IS the Spurs image; hence the problem . . . and even when he "retires", I get the sense he'll still have his fingerprints on the organization long after, a la Auerbach.


Most of ALL NBA players have those 2 things in common. Another commonality is they're millionaires. Hmm, perhaps that is another piece to the puzzle. And gosh, they're all males TOO! I think we've cracked it!

Really though, I don't think age or race has anything to do with it. I think most people just don't want to have an asshole boss. And Pop's a stubborn asshole, tbh.

It has everything to do with it.

Having 3 foreigners from a different generation obscured it for years, as did the fact that the league hadn't yet entered the "player empowerment" era.




If they kept those players on the team then they would have a image problem.

Most of the league IS those players. You know what they're not? Foreign and/or mixed guys from a different generation.



This couldn't be any further from the truth. This organization employs and promotes multiple players on this roster with questionable reputations. Hell just look at the roster two of the most popular players on this team are very urban and have possible gang ties. The Spurs allow DJ o be himself on and off the court.

They took him because at 29, it was too much of a value pick (and a positional need at that) to turn down.

So long as the senile duo continues to run things, I'd bet on the relationship souring and it not ending well with him at some point.

He's clearly already frustrated and has talked about a lack of freedom recently.

[daslicer]

You people don't get it. Unfortunately and inexplicably, Pop IS the Spurs image; hence the problem . . . and even when he "retires", I get the sense he'll still have his fingerprints on the organization long after, a la Auerbach.



It has everything to do with it.

Having 3 foreigners from a different generation obscured it for years, as did the fact that the league hadn't yet entered the "player empowerment" era.





Most of the league IS those players. You know what they're not? Foreign and/or mixed guys from a different generation.




They took him because at 29, it was too much of a value pick (and a positional need at that) to turn down.

So long as the senile duo continues to run things, I'd bet on the relationship souring and it not ending well with him at some point.

He's clearly already frustrated and has talked about a lack of freedom recently.


Pop is 71 years old. If you believe that he's going to stay with the organization forever then how long do you think he will live to? Possibly until he's 100 :lol.

[tenbeersbold]

You people don't get it. Unfortunately and inexplicably, Pop IS the Spurs image; hence the problem . . . and even when he "retires", I get the sense he'll still have his fingerprints on the organization long after, a la Auerbach.



It has everything to do with it.

Having 3 foreigners from a different generation obscured it for years, as did the fact that the league hadn't yet entered the "player empowerment" era.





Most of the league IS those players. You know what they're not? Foreign and/or mixed guys from a different generation.




They took him because at 29, it was too much of a value pick (and a positional need at that) to turn down.

So long as the senile duo continues to run things, I'd bet on the relationship souring and it not ending well with him at some point.

He's clearly already frustrated and has talked about a lack of freedom recently.



Well you can't underestimate Pops role in elevating towel waiver supreme Patty Mills into the "Godfather" role that was previously Timmy's.
Timmy made sense he is the GOAT,Mills OTOH is not...
You can tell by how the team comes out for pregame warmups,the older vets don't even bother participating in the stupid Mills rituals
Only some of the young guys.
It just reeks of a shitty locker room atmosphere.

That being said,the Spurs need to dump LMA and Derozan
Spurs never won with ballhogging proto typical emo stars like these guys,never will.

Get busy finding "beautiful game" players again.
More European/international players that understand the team concept and might actually prefer a locker room that isn't overrun with Black American ghetto vibes.

There's still a lot of good players out there that don't want to come to the NBA because they don't want to put up with the ghetto culture of the locker rooms.

[r0drig0lac]

They clearly perceive of this organization as being at best a dictatorship, replete with militaristic rigidity and a lack of freedom (many have referenced this) and at worst a plantation mentality

don't forget the fake meritocracy

[Dennis the Menace]

They don’t have a image problem. They have a Pop problem

[dbestpro]

Nothing builds an image problem faster than losing and poor coaching.

[ChumpDumper]

Young inner city black men don't want to live in San Antonio?

Wow!

[TD 21]

Pop is 71 years old. If you believe that he's going to stay with the organization forever then how long do you think he will live to? Possibly until he's 100 :lol.

If you think he's literally going to sever ties when he retires, you're delusional. He'll still be influencing them and they'll still be bringing in players who fit the "culture", the same way the Jazz do almost a decade after Sloan retired.




Get busy finding "beautiful game" players again.
More European/international players that understand the team concept and might actually prefer a locker room that isn't overrun with Black American ghetto vibes.

There's still a lot of good players out there that don't want to come to the NBA because they don't want to put up with the ghetto culture of the locker rooms.

Re-creating what they had is not realistic. Not only the basketball IQ and talent, but the continuity, selflessness, etc.

Targeting European/international players is stupid, because it just further limits them and in the case of the former, clearly isn't appealing to the majority of Black American players. Foreign superstars: Doncic, Jokic, Antetokounmpo. Foreign stars: Porzingis, Sabonis, Vucevic, Embiid, Simmons, Siakam, Gobert.

The answer isn't turning their back on the majority, it's embracing them (or at least pretending to enough so that they don't shun you).




Young inner city black men don't want to live in San Antonio?


Wow!

Yet they have no problem living in a bunch of other non glamour markets. If you think the stigma surrounding this one is because of the city, as opposed to the organization, you're delusional.

[J_Paco]

If you think he's literally going to sever ties when he retires, you're delusional. He'll still be influencing them and they'll still be bringing in players who fit the "culture", the same way the Jazz do almost a decade after Sloan retired.





Re-creating what they had is not realistic. Not only the basketball IQ and talent, but the continuity, selflessness, etc.

Targeting European/international players is stupid, because it just further limits them and in the case of the former, clearly isn't appealing to the majority of Black American players. Foreign superstars: Doncic, Jokic, Antetokounmpo. Foreign stars: Porzingis, Sabonis, Vucevic, Embiid, Simmons, Siakam, Gobert.

The answer isn't turning their back on the majority, it's embracing them (or at least pretending to enough so that they don't shun you).





Yet they have no problem living in a bunch of other non glamour markets. If you think the stigma surrounding this one is because of the city, as opposed to the organization, you're delusional.



Yes, the Spurs "image problem" is they are losing, likely out of playoff contention and seemingly unsure about their direction as a team.

Everything else is you just projecting your usual rhetoric and racially driven stance against the Spurs.....

I guess Toronto had an "image problem" until they won, or that Utah, Orlando, Detroit and practically every other non - big market team does.....

The Spurs were extremely lucky that a lot thing fell their way, the talent gelled & (for the most part) enjoyed playing together. Pop was also at his best and now he isn't.

[TD 21]

Yes, the Spurs "image problem" is they are losing, likely out of playoff contention and seemingly unsure about their direction as a team.

Everything else is you just projecting your usual rhetoric and racially driven stance against the Spurs.....

I guess Toronto had an "image problem" until they won, or that Utah, Orlando, Detroit and practically every other non - big market team does.....

The Spurs were extremely lucky that a lot thing fell their way, the talent gelled & (for the most part) enjoyed playing together. Pop was also at his best and now he isn't.

For the most part, those organizations don't have a certain types of players they seek/avoid and you don't hear the same types of things coming from former players of them, apologist.

Until this organization is willing to be introspective and realize they need to change certain things about the way they operate, they're not going anywhere.

[Dverde]

I don’t buy the no one wants to come. San Antonio is a neutral in the calcalution. No state taxes, growing city near Austin, hot climate. Several NBA cities I put lower. I think the organization is more the issues than the city

[sasaint]

I don’t buy the no one wants to come. San Antonio is a neutral in the calcalution. No state taxes, growing city near Austin, hot climate. Several NBA cities I put lower. I think the organization is more the issues than the city

That’s my guess, too.

[Dex]

1228091611114037249

Shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody. Spurs weren't a premier destination even when we had prime Timmy and the Big 3.

What were the major free agency coups the Spurs have had in the last 20 years? Brent Barry...an aging Michael Finley? Maybe Horry or BoBo (who was coming off a terrible tenure in Charlotte)? Richard freaking Jefferson??

LaMarcus came to play with Timmy and because he has family in Texas, and the Spurs were still pretty fresh off the 2014 title at that point.

That pretty much covers it...people were never coming to San Antonio for the Riverwalk. They came to play for championships, and the only remainder of that aura is Pop and even he is one his way out.

[K...]

Random comment: people say the team sucks because of nephew or pop, but what it's karma from waiving rasual Butler so callously? The Spurs didn't cause him to drive off the road, but the way he was booted off the team was wron g. Meanwhile sjax bleeds out his panties every month at being unable to get minutes over prime Danny green and Kawhi and the forum go nuts.

The Spurs built the karma by establishing relationships. The new coach will have to do something because there really isn't a continuance of the pop line available unless an ex assistant returns. Even then I don't see it. Wipe the slate clean go back to fiesta colors and lower ticket prices.

[BatManu20]

It’s literally just the fact that the team is in San Antonio. That’s it. Don’t overthink it.

[jjktkk]

OP with another fail thread. What a shocker. The so called "image problem" this team has, is the massive talent drain it has taken over the years.. Take away the big 3, and what's his face for the Clippers and what exactly where you expecting from this team? Posters have already mentioned S.A. is not a destination for free agents. As far as the draft is concerned, its hard to acquire top shelf talent when the Spurs perennially pick in the low first round. PATFO has made some bad free agent signings over the years, you can nail Pop on that and his crazy ass rotations, but you're delusional if you thought the Spur's dynasty was just going to keep on rolling along.

[TD 21]

OP with another fail thread. What a shocker. The so called "image problem" this team has, is the massive talent drain it has taken over the years.. Take away the big 3, and what's his face for the Clippers and what exactly where you expecting from this team? Posters have already mentioned S.A. is not a destination for free agents. As far as the draft is concerned, its hard to acquire top shelf talent when the Spurs perennially pick in the low first round. PATFO has made some bad free agent signings over the years, you can nail Pop on that and his crazy ass rotations, but you're delusional if you thought the Spur's dynasty was just going to keep on rolling along.

This has nothing to do with that, apologist. It never ceases to amaze how many people lack basic reading comprehension.

[sasaint]

Image = Form. The Spurs also have a Substance Problem; they suck.

The old adage is true; form follows substance.

[daslicer]

If you think he's literally going to sever ties when he retires, you're delusional. He'll still be influencing them and they'll still be bringing in players who fit the "culture", the same way the Jazz do almost a decade after Sloan retired.





Re-creating what they had is not realistic. Not only the basketball IQ and talent, but the continuity, selflessness, etc.

Targeting European/international players is stupid, because it just further limits them and in the case of the former, clearly isn't appealing to the majority of Black American players. Foreign superstars: Doncic, Jokic, Antetokounmpo. Foreign stars: Porzingis, Sabonis, Vucevic, Embiid, Simmons, Siakam, Gobert.

The answer isn't turning their back on the majority, it's embracing them (or at least pretending to enough so that they don't shun you).





Yet they have no problem living in a bunch of other non glamour markets. If you think the stigma surrounding this one is because of the city, as opposed to the organization, you're delusional.



You didn't answer the question again how long do you think Pop is going to be with the Spurs after he's no longer the coach? Give an estimate that's what I'm asking for.

[daslicer]

Image = Form. The Spurs also have a Substance Problem; they suck.

The old adage is true; form follows substance.

It's always about winning. Warriors were garbage for years and now are considered the gold standard of the league when it comes to being a great organization.

[K...]

It's always about winning. Warriors were garbage for years and now are considered the gold standard of the league when it comes to being a great organization.

new ownership in 2010 new coach in 2014. IT's not exactly a mystery how. Same with clippers

[daslicer]

new ownership in 2010 new coach in 2014. IT's not exactly a mystery how. Same with clippers

It takes having players at the end of day. If the Spurs luck out and draft another superstar then they will be considered a great organization again. In general I think winning is fluky in this league. Warriors lucked out with Curry's ascension to an MVP level player. Nobody could predict that.

[Old School 44]

The core home-grown big three that kept the Spurs together and inline, not so much pop. I always laugh when players like LeBron publicly say they'd love to play for Pop, yet I think it's the furthest thing from the truth. Not that Pop is mean or anything, there's just a rigidness/discipline I don't think today's players like.
I think that's a big reason why the national team is short superstars.

[RC_Drunkford]

In other words: We got a Flopovich problem and he got to go

[R. DeMurre]

Hard to say what the real root cause is, but if Kawhi has spoken off the record to multiple people and that word has spread, I could see it having a huge influence. One of the issues that I see is Pop doesn't seem to treat players equally at all anymore. The take on the Spurs before was that Pop would yell at Duncan or Parker just as easily as any bench player-- he was the quick-tempered drill sergeant, but at least he was consistent. Now there seems to be a much greater variance in treatment. The excuse for Lonnie Walker getting yanked a number of times this year has been defensive mistakes, but in those same games Forbes and DeRozan are getting lots of minutes with obvious glaring defensive shortcomings. Anyone watching and seeing Forbes get more minutes than White or Murray has to think, "hmmm, this doesn't seem to make sense." Also, trading Bertans-- who was an advanced stats standout-- seems odd and, again, Pop for some reason seemed to be very impatient with his defensive mistakes while overlooking those of other players. There are too many odd decisions to suss out at this point and I'm sure lots of players and agents are taking notice.

[UZER]

Hard to say what the real root cause is, but if Kawhi has spoken off the record to multiple people and that word has spread, I could see it having a huge influence. One of the issues that I see is Pop doesn't seem to treat players equally at all anymore. The take on the Spurs before was that Pop would yell at Duncan or Parker just as easily as any bench player-- he was the quick-tempered drill sergeant, but at least he was consistent. Now there seems to be a much greater variance in treatment. The excuse for Lonnie Walker getting yanked a number of times this year has been defensive mistakes, but in those same games Forbes and DeRozan are getting lots of minutes with obvious glaring defensive shortcomings. Anyone watching and seeing Forbes get more minutes than White or Murray has to think, "hmmm, this doesn't seem to make sense." Also, trading Bertans-- who was an advanced stats standout-- seems odd and, again, Pop for some reason seemed to be very impatient with his defensive mistakes while overlooking those of other players. There are too many odd decisions to suss out at this point and I'm sure lots of players and agents are taking notice.

Not treating players equally is one thing. But with Pop, I agree, so much of what he does doesn’t even make basketball sense. Nobody knows what the hell he is trying to do anymore. It sure as hell isnt putting the best team on the floor to try to win the most games. At least players could at least respect that. But with Pop, his coaching has literally become a joke.

Everything is a chore and exhausting at this point. I mean, something as simple as having a 2nd in command on the bench turns into a big mess of no one in the entire organization, media, and arena knowing who the he’ll was in charge after he got kicked out. Then they pull the “committee” bs, then Pop comes out later and says it was Timmy. Really? Timmy? One month into his first coaching job? What a joke it’s all become.

[ceperez]

Total BS post. So only winning teams have no image problem?

Every team has former players that bitch about the time they played their. Shaq likely bitched about the time he played with the Lakers.

[ChumpDumper]

Yet they have no problem living in a bunch of other non glamour markets. If you think the stigma surrounding this one is because of the city, as opposed to the organization, you're delusional.Which ones?

Let's see your list.

[TD 21]

Which ones?

Let's see your list.

:lol You're so predictable, I can literally see the responses coming multiple posts in advance.

As I alluded to, the list was every other franchise because there is no other one with this stigma.

Burying their proverbial head in the sand and pretending it doesn't exist isn't going to change it.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol You're so predictable, I can literally see the responses coming multiple posts in advance.

As I alluded to, the list was every other franchise because there is no other one with this stigma.

Burying their proverbial head in the sand and pretending it doesn't exist isn't going to change it.:lmao every other franchise is a paradise for young black American free agents.

OK.

[TD 21]

:lmao every other franchise is a paradise for young black American free agents.

OK.

:lmao Right on cue, it's twisting words time.

Find me another franchise with a laundry list of players, of similar background, who have this many complaints, slights, etc.

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao Right on cue, it's twisting words time.

Find me another franchise with a laundry list of players, of similar background, who have this many complaints, slights, etc.:lmao now you're making demands. Right on cue.

I'll just say every other team like you did and accuse you of having your head in the sand. There.

[TD 21]

:lmao now you're making demands. Right on cue.

I'll just say every other team like you did and accuse you of having your head in the sand. There.

Ah, so it's a question when it comes from you, but a demand when it comes from me.

The difference is, I named several players in the original post, while you haven't named a single team.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

This topic is ground-breaking. I'm glad it has its own thread. :tu

[ChumpDumper]

Ah, so it's a question when it comes from you, but a demand when it comes from me.OK, question. Now you can't whine about that anymore.


The difference is, I named several players in the original post, while you haven't named a single team.:lol You named Spurs.

I asked about all the other paradise teams.

Well?

[tb5]

Could Pop be bitter with the front office for trading away Bertans and therefore have been not playing Carroll out of spite? If you think about it, RC isn't technically the GM anymore. Or could Carroll have walked in not willing to adapt and Pop didn't want to deal with it? Either way, this team needs a youth infusion at coach and GM. Blow it up and start fresh with the roster as well. Free agents don't want to come to SA. The only selling point will be to draft some great players and build around that again. Right now, this team is just unwatchable and the organization is just bad. It's not Knicks bad just yet but it's becoming an embarrassment.

[TD 21]

OK, question. Now you can't whine about that anymore.

:lol You named Spurs.

I asked about all the other paradise teams.

Well?

:wow

I didn't say anything about paradise. I just said, no one else has a public laundry list of a similar type saying similar things.

[ChumpDumper]

:wow

I didn't say anything about paradise. I just said, no one else has a public laundry list of a similar type saying similar things.I'm sure you follow not other team on a granular level.

Pop's going to be gone soon one way or another. Relax.

[TD 21]

I'm sure you follow not other team on a granular level.

Pop's going to be gone soon one way or another. Relax.

:lmao Aka you concede. As if you'd know what I follow.

He won't be the president of basketball operations/head coach for much longer, but he'll probably stay on as a senior advisor who has far more influence and say than any of them should because of his stature. If that's the case, it'll more or less be business as usual.

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao Aka you concede. As if you'd know what I follow.:lmao aka you concede. You can't say you follow any other team like this.


He won't be the president of basketball operations/head coach for much longer, but he'll probably stay on as a senior advisor who has far more influence and say than any of them should because of his stature. If that's the case, it'll more or less be business as usual.Then he'll die. Be happy.

[J_Paco]

For the most part, those organizations don't have a certain types of players they seek/avoid and you don't hear the same types of things coming from former players of them, apologist.

Until this organization is willing to be introspective and realize they need to change certain things about the way they operate, they're not going anywhere.

Sure, just like the other 20+ teams that "aren't going anywhere" without elite talent or good coaching.

You, like always, have to use the eventual down turn of the organization to whine about the team's culture, supposed "image problems, not sucking off major talent and Pop being a "senile old man."

[TD 21]

Sure, just like the other 20+ teams that "aren't going anywhere" without elite talent or good coaching.

You, like always, have to use the eventual down turn of the organization to whine about the team's culture, supposed "image problems, not sucking off major talent and Pop being a "senile old man."

:cry The other 20+ don't have the stigma this one has nor have they created the amount of self inflicted wounds this one has in recent years, apologist.

They can either play the game within' the game and give themselves the best possible odds or they can decimate them by pretending they're smarter than everyone else because they lucked into the greatest franchise player/core of all-time, who allowed them to live a utopian existence for 19 years.

[libertarian4321]

It's been starting them in the face for years and it's getting progressively worse. At first, the likes of Horry, Jackson, Blair, could be brushed off as malcontents who either wanted to extent their stay or play. Then it was whatever the hell happened with Dedmon, then it was some of Simmons' comments, then the Aldridge fiasco, the Scumbag saga, heck even subtle shots and/or frustration from the likes of Green, Anderson, Bertans, Murray, Walker and finally, the bizarre Carroll situation.

Most of these players have a two very obvious things in common: They're black American and millennial. That encompasses the majority of the league, particularly the upper crust.

They clearly perceive of this organization as being at best a dictatorship, replete with militaristic rigidity and a lack of freedom (many have referenced this) and at worst a plantation mentality.

These are the people they need to repair their image with, especially being in a non glamour market. They need to create an environment conducive to them, which means loosening the reigns on court and off court, promoting the individual, both publicly and privately.

I gad no idea Bertans was a black or an American, thanks for pointing it out.

[ChumpDumper]

:cry The other 20+ don't have the stigma this one has nor have they created the amount of self inflicted wounds this one has in recent years, apologist.

They can either play the game within' the game and give themselves the best possible odds or they can decimate them by pretending they're smarter than everyone else because they lucked into the greatest franchise player/core of all-time, who allowed them to live a utopian existence for 19 years.:lol You say that like it was a bad thing.

Do you just nurture your narratives every day like a bonsai plants or newborn calves?

[ragas]

Anybody remembers when Demarre Carroll left the Raptors? Same pattern. He didn't want to adapt and critized the Raptors.
https://www.sbnation.com/2017/7/20/16003336/demarre-carroll-fit-nets-kenny-atkinson-raptors-trade-dwane-casey
https://tipofthetower.com/2017/07/19/toronto-raptors-masai-ujiri-demarre-carroll-trust-comments/

Spurs shouldn't have signed him.

[jjktkk]

:cry The other 20+ don't have the stigma this one has nor have they created the amount of self inflicted wounds this one has in recent years, apologist.

They can either play the game within' the game and give themselves the best possible odds or they can decimate them by pretending they're smarter than everyone else because they lucked into the greatest franchise player/core of all-time, who allowed them to live a utopian existence for 19 years.Still stupid after all these years.

[Maddog]

Anybody remembers when Demarre Carroll left the Raptors? Same pattern. He didn't want to adapt and critized the Raptors.
https://www.sbnation.com/2017/7/20/16003336/demarre-carroll-fit-nets-kenny-atkinson-raptors-trade-dwane-casey
https://tipofthetower.com/2017/07/19/toronto-raptors-masai-ujiri-demarre-carroll-trust-comments/

Spurs shouldn't have signed him.

Yeah
But I also think he was signed for "insurance purposes" at the 3/4 slot
In all honesty his contract even with the 3rd year added (only a small amount guaranteed) was not bad. With the emergence (yes that is an exaggeration) of Lyles he's not needed.

[TD 21]

I gad no idea Bertans was a black or an American, thanks for pointing it out.



Most of these players have a two very obvious things in common: They're black American and millennial. That encompasses the majority of the league, particularly the upper crust.

:wakeup




:lol
You say that like it was a bad thing.

Do you just nurture your narratives every day like a bonsai plants or newborn calves?

The point is, those days are over, they're now in the real NBA and they are off to a lousy start.




Still stupid after all these years.

:cry Stupid is your gods performance in recent years, apologist.

[ChumpDumper]

The point is, those days are over, they're now in the real NBA and they are off to a lousy start.:cry

[TD 21]

:cry

Aka, you concede.