Did Pop’s disastrous stint as coach of Team USA last summer mess with his mind?

[Uriel]

Coming into the season, the Spurs were expected to take a step forward from last year when they went 48-34 and came within a game of making the 2nd round. With the return of Dejounte Murray, the addition of Lonnie Walker, and an extra year of experience playing together under their belts, many people in this forum predicted the Spurs would be even better this year than last (timvp even had the team winning 50 games and making the 2nd round).

Now, there are a number of reasons why that hasn’t happened. But one leading reason I think everyone here can agree on is Popovich’s coaching. For some inexplicable reason, Pop seems to have lost the ability to coach in the summer between last season and this season.

Now, Pop can still occasionally show flashes of brilliance when the situation calls for it. His ability to game plan for an opposing team (when he actually bothers to do so) is still among the best in the league. His out-of-timeout play calls remain elite. But his rotations are just so outrageously terrible, they’re probably the single biggest reason why the Spurs have underachieved so dramatically this season.

Three reasons stand out to me as to why Popovich has regressed so terribly. The first is the departure of key assistants in Ettore Messina and Ime Udoka. The second is age. But the third is actually one that’s less obvious: his coaching stint with Team USA last summer.

My theory is that Team USA’s disastrous run in the 2019 FIBA World Cup has completely gotten to Popovich’s head, so much so that it has impeded his ability to coach the Spurs this season. Maybe he’s still reeling from the loss. Maybe he only has the Olympics (and not the Spurs) on his mind. Maybe he took the deluge of criticism to heart and lost confidence in his coaching prowess.

Whatever it is, it seems to me that Popovich’s disastrous run as coach of Team USA has messed with his mind and impeded his ability to become an effective coach for the Spurs this season.

[Robz4000]

He's been awful for years already, his poor coaching of team USA was just an extension of his coaching failures as of late.

[Uriel]

He's been awful for years already, his poor coaching of team USA was just an extension of his coaching failures as of late.
But he's been extra bad this year, even compared to previous years. At least last year he was able to will the team to almost 50 wins and very nearly the 2nd round of the playoffs.

[Russ]

Interesting theory. But it's still unclear why the bad experience with Team USA would have caused Pop to regress as a coach.

You could just as easily argue that last summer's failure would have humbled him or caused him to renew his commitment.

It is hard to fathom why this year's team (so far) has performed so far below last year's team.

But there's got be a reason (or reasons) there somewhere. And, as bad as it's been, it might be interesting to find out what it is. :toast

[Robz4000]

But he's been extra bad this year, even compared to previous years. At least last year he was able to will the team to almost 50 wins and very nearly the 2nd round of the playoffs.

Derrick White willed the team to almost 50 wins and Pop is the reason they didn't make it to the second round last year with his god awful rotations that have been even worse this year.

[Seventyniner]

My theory is that the loss of his wife was the huge blow, with the Number Two debacle just adding insult to injury. He was able to get through last season but something happened early last summer. I think both the Team USA disaster and this season are symptoms of the same cause, not the former being the cause of the latter. This is just guessing on my part, though.

[ZeusWillJudge]

No. Pop is a one trick pony. He did things his way, and it worked great under the right conditions. The conditions changed. It took a few years for the changes to the game, and the changes in Spurs' personnel to hit critical mass. But when it did, he didn't evolve, and he went the way of the other dinosaurs.

Rob said it above. The Team USA coaching stint was more of the same. It was a symptom, not the cause.

[TimDunkem]

His mind was already fucked if he chose Derrick and Mason fucking Plumlee over Fox and Bam because they "weren't ready".

[GAustex]

Poop signed broke down tin man can’t jump and can barely run and has no shot Carroll to a THREE YEAR CONTRACT. Poop is done.
Flush him

[Robz4000]

His mind was already fucked if he chose Derrick and Mason fucking Plumlee over Fox and Bam because they "weren't ready".

Choosing Derrick White made sense. He was coming off a season better than anything Fox had done before. Mason Plumlee over Bam Adebayo was the head scratcher.

[Arcadian]

many people in this forum predicted the Spurs would be even better this year than last

They absolutely should be. Maybe with the loss of Bertans, at worst they should be about as good as last year. But it is bizarre for basically the same team + Murray to be significantly worse than last year. Fucking bizarre.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

He might think he's still in China. Maybe no one's told him these are regular season games.

[Russ]

If Pop is the problem, maybe last summer isn't the source of the problem.

Maybe it's next summer.

Pop has to be sweating it big time. This Olympics will be Pop's legacy -- there probably won't be much more for Pop (either way) after this.

Maybe that's freaked him out in the way OP proposed last summer's USA Team has affected him. Or maybe, on the other hand, since he knows that next summer is all that matters, he's doesn't care about what happens until then.

Team USA is a huge responsibility. Nobody cares about Pop's arrogance with the press now. But if Team USA loses the Gold and then Pop smirks and says it's only a game, there will be hell to pay. Maybe Pop knows that.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

I found it hilarious that both Bagley and Fox refused to take part of Team USA bc they were more focused on the NBA season... Only for both of them to regress badly and the Kings to suck worse than we do :lol

[TimDunkem]

Choosing Derrick White made sense. He was coming off a season better than anything Fox had done before. Mason Plumlee over Bam Adebayo was the head scratcher.

No it didn't. Fox's leap was obvious. Literally everyone but Spurs fans have called it for what it was, and that it was obviously Poop playing favorites as usual.

[TimDunkem]

I found it hilarious that both Bagley and Fox refused to take part of Team USA bc they were more focused on the NBA season... Only for both of them to regress badly and the Kings to suck worse than we do :lol

I have a source on this. Fox wanted that spot, but knew Derrick was getting on the team no matter what. When it came down to him and White, he knew what the deal was, so he dropped out.

[Robz4000]

No it didn't. Fox's leap was obvious. Literally everyone but Spurs fans have called it for what it was, and that it was obviously Poop playing favorites as usual.

Yes it did, and it also helped that White was outplaying him during Team USA activities (which was widely reported). 2018-2019 Derrick White > De'Aaron Fox from any season.

[JeffDuncan]

... His out-of-timeout play calls remain elite. ...


Lol. Thanks for the chuckle.

It isn't that team USA screwed Pop up, it's that he screwed them up. He's been messing up for years now.

The reason for the Spurs' troubles this season are as plain as the big red nose on Pop's face. One could begin with his insane insistence on giving big minutes to some of the worst defenders in the league, and go from there.

[TD 21]

But he's been extra bad this year, even compared to previous years. At least last year he was able to will the team to almost 50 wins and very nearly the 2nd round of the playoffs.

:lmao It's played out narratives like this that contribute significantly to players of consequence not wanting to play here.




Derrick White willed the team to almost 50 wins and Pop is the reason they didn't make it to the second round last year with his god awful rotations that have been even worse this year.

Nice story. In reality, Aldridge, who was a workhorse (81 gp, 33.2 mpg, 2687 minutes, in his 13th and age 33 season), willed it. Elite 3-point shooting off the bench, plus Gay and White serving as the only semblance of 3 and D, also played significant roles.

White was also never better than Fox and not even a better fit for that team. Worse than that though, was Plumlee over Adebayo, who didn't miraculously become the player he has in the short time between that camp and preseason.

[cd98]

I can be objective with Pop, but to be fair, it's not hard to coach at the Olympics when you have the top 12 American NBA players on your roster. What he had to work with last summer, none of the coaches could beat the top NBA talent playing for the other teams with that roster, especially after they got hit with injuries.

[Uriel]

My theory is that the loss of his wife was the huge blow, with the Number Two debacle just adding insult to injury. He was able to get through last season but something happened early last summer. I think both the Team USA disaster and this season are symptoms of the same cause, not the former being the cause of the latter. This is just guessing on my part, though.
I agree. The loss of his wife and the Leonard situation were major contributory factors to his collapse. His increased interest in politics over basketball may have played a role too.

[Uriel]

No. Pop is a one trick pony. He did things his way, and it worked great under the right conditions. The conditions changed. It took a few years for the changes to the game, and the changes in Spurs' personnel to hit critical mass. But when it did, he didn't evolve, and he went the way of the other dinosaurs.

Rob said it above. The Team USA coaching stint was more of the same. It was a symptom, not the cause.


Lol. Thanks for the chuckle.

It isn't that team USA screwed Pop up, it's that he screwed them up. He's been messing up for years now.

The reason for the Spurs' troubles this season are as plain as the big red nose on Pop's face. One could begin with his insane insistence on giving big minutes to some of the worst defenders in the league, and go from there.
That doesn’t explain though why the Spurs have regressed so badly compared to last season. If Pop was as bad in previous years as he has been this year, the Spurs should’ve missed the playoffs too last year. But they didn’t. They won almost 50 games and nearly made the second round.

[phxspurfan]

Derrick White willed the team to almost 50 wins and Pop is the reason they didn't make it to the second round last year with his god awful rotations that have been even worse this year.

Agree with this. White was clearly the team's most important player and Pop said that a number of times. Murray coming back and putting White's role into question killed his confidence, and possibly his development. Sadly, the team as constructed makes it difficult to play Murray and White together, especially since White is playing so Timidly and is shooting so poorly. His shots are so bad, hitting back iron basically every time like he's just learning to play basketball.

[RC_Drunkford]

I hope Pop has a stacked USA team and doesn't win a medal, so the whole world sees what kind of idiot he is. I wouldn't be surprised if he starts Plumlee while leaving Anthony Davis at home.

[RC_Drunkford]

Agree with this. White was clearly the team's most important player and Pop said that a number of times. Murray coming back and putting White's role into question killed his confidence, and possibly his development. Sadly, the team as constructed makes it difficult to play Murray and White together, especially since White is playing so Timidly and is shooting so poorly. His shots are so bad, hitting back iron basically every time like he's just learning to play basketball.

I don't know who taught you basketball, but shots that hit back iron are good shots, it just means they are a little too long. That's the best miss one can ask for

[phxspurfan]

I don't know who taught you basketball

tu madre homes

[phxspurfan]

I hope Pop has a stacked USA team and doesn't win a medal, so the whole world sees what kind of idiot he is. I wouldn't be surprised if he starts Plumlee while leaving Anthony Davis at home.

they will all get the swine flu and he will start pat connaughton and marcus smart

[MultiTroll]

All the heavies like Bron, Kawhi, Curry, Bryn Forbes etc have said they will play. So he can roll out the balls again ala Timmy Dunks-GNob-pre 2009 Parker and top notch cast. I wouldn't look for any humility coming.

[UZER]

Pop this year is coaching like the head coach from the teen wolf movie.

[ZeusWillJudge]

[FONT=Verdana]
That doesn’t explain though why the Spurs have regressed so badly compared to last season. If Pop was as bad in previous years as he has been this year, the Spurs should’ve missed the playoffs too last year. But they didn’t. They won almost 50 games and nearly made the second round.

Actually, what I said does explain most of it. Pop is trying to coach to a style of play that he is unsuited for, and doesn't like. And they finally hit an inflection point.

Look - last year the Spurs average point margin was +1.7 ppg. That meant they were a marginal team. Marginal teams, in general, are able to beat a little more than half their opponents. This year the Spurs average point margin was -1.7 ppg. That may not sound like much, but it's huge. There really is a pretty fine line between a tied for 8th seed team and a +/- 36-win team like the Spurs are this year.

When the Spurs were dominant, they always played at a very slow pace and stifled other teams with defense. On nights when their shots weren't falling, they could "win ugly" by holding a team scoreless for 5-6 minute stretches. That's the style of play that Pop really excelled at, and it's totally impossible now. Last year they weren't a marginal team on the cusp of being better - they were holding on by their fingernails. They had a nice little win streak in March, but they were 8-12 in the 20 games before that, and 6-5 in the 11 games after. I'm telling you, there is a fine line between the Spurs this year and the Spurs last year.

The biggest difference is personnel and rotations, and Pop having no feel at all for this "New NBA" and how the game is played. It's the reason he didn't value Davis Bertans highly enough, and the same reason he picked Plumlee over Adabayo for the NT. Worse, he keeps trying to shoehorn players into his last-generation "system". Rudy Gay's demise hasn't helped. But if he had left Derrick White the hell alone in the summer, kept Bertans, and brought back the same SL that finished last season, this team would be in the playoffs.

I know, you're asking about the big drop-off from last year. And I'm telling you, it's a matter of inflection point. The overall difference in the two teams isn't that great, but it comes right at a point that translates into a lot more games lost.

[TDomination]

All the heavies like Bron, Kawhi, Curry, Bryn Forbes etc have said they will play. So he can roll out the balls again ala Timmy Dunks-GNob-pre 2009 Parker and top notch cast. I wouldn't look for any humility coming.
lol

Pop would love to have him on the USA squad

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Pop was brilliant the last couple of seasons, in the regular season especially. This season - obviously not. I think most of his coaching staff leaving was a big blow, added to the loss of his wife, the snake forcing his way out and Team USA's collapse, which all may have contributed to his disillusionment. He looks like someone who's simply going through the motions, wouldn't surprise me if he steps down in the summer.

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

It's the other way around. His mind caused a disastrous stint as coach of Team USA

[Maddog]

I'm probably in the silent minority here, but I think it has less to do with Pop's coaching than just natural order of things.
This team isn't very good. It's what happens when you continue to draft outside the lottery (and for the most part in the mid to late 20s) for almost two decades. Add in that SA is not a top FA destination nor a franchise that can absorb a significant luxury tax hit and voila
So why is this team much worse than last year?
I think fist and foremost is a lot of teams got a lot better. 5 of the 8 teams that finished below SA last year got substantially better. Of those above only one got significantly worse.
Add in some decline in LMA and Rudy Gay......
The hoped for improvements from White and Walker to off set hasn't happened and DJM is far form what we hoped for. Now is that coaching or are they just not that good or too soon to tell.
In retrospect- I think handing the keys to DJM was probably a mistake- maybe have him off the bench, but I've never coached an NBA team.

[ginobilized]

Pop this year is coaching like the head coach from the teen wolf movie.

My vote for post of the year!

[poopbox]

Typical old white man who would rather fail with his bad ideas and institutions than succeed with someone elses...

[UZER]

Pop would’ve sat Zion for the entire year. Then he wouldve put him in a box offensively next year. “You can only do A or B all year. That’s it.”

[313]

Combo of the bertans fiasco and the fact that they overachieved the last two years.

[sasaint]

Actually, what I said does explain most of it. Pop is trying to coach to a style of play that he is unsuited for, and doesn't like. And they finally hit an inflection point.

Look - last year the Spurs average point margin was +1.7 ppg. That meant they were a marginal team. Marginal teams, in general, are able to beat a little more than half their opponents. This year the Spurs average point margin was -1.7 ppg. That may not sound like much, but it's huge. There really is a pretty fine line between a tied for 8th seed team and a +/- 36-win team like the Spurs are this year.

When the Spurs were dominant, they always played at a very slow pace and stifled other teams with defense. On nights when their shots weren't falling, they could "win ugly" by holding a team scoreless for 5-6 minute stretches. That's the style of play that Pop really excelled at, and it's totally impossible now. Last year they weren't a marginal team on the cusp of being better - they were holding on by their fingernails. They had a nice little win streak in March, but they were 8-12 in the 20 games before that, and 6-5 in the 11 games after. I'm telling you, there is a fine line between the Spurs this year and the Spurs last year.

The biggest difference is personnel and rotations, and Pop having no feel at all for this "New NBA" and how the game is played. It's the reason he didn't value Davis Bertans highly enough, and the same reason he picked Plumlee over Adabayo for the NT. Worse, he keeps trying to shoehorn players into his last-generation "system". Rudy Gay's demise hasn't helped. But if he had left Derrick White the hell alone in the summer, kept Bertans, and brought back the same SL that finished last season, this team would be in the playoffs.

I know, you're asking about the big drop-off from last year. And I'm telling you, it's a matter of inflection point. The overall difference in the two teams isn't that great, but it comes right at a point that translates into a lot more games lost.

Very insightful analysis. But it does beg one question. How does the Beautiful Game fit into your narrative? Just an anomalous blip that the Old Asshole ignores?

[ducks]

Tom Orsborn
Tom_orsborn
·
Feb 26
Pop shoulders some of the blame for this one: "I think the game plan I came out with was poor, and they took advantage of it in the first quarter." #Spurs

[Capt Bringdown]

Agree with this. White was clearly the team's most important player and Pop said that a number of times. Murray coming back and putting White's role into question killed his confidence, and possibly his development. Sadly, the team as constructed makes it difficult to play Murray and White together, especially since White is playing so Timidly and is shooting so poorly. His shots are so bad, hitting back iron basically every time like he's just learning to play basketball.

White hasn't looked the same since the Denver series. I don't think his confidence has recovered from going from hero to bum in that series. Add the disappointing team USA experience plus being benched over Murray and you have to wonder if he's snake-bit.
Last year I said he reminded me of Jimmy Silas, now he's looking more like Nick Anderson.

That being said, I like White's chances over Murray. Although Murray's scoring has picked up, I have never seen him display the kind of leadership that White showed last year.
I hope I'm wrong for the Spurs sake, but I'm not a believer in Murray. He plays like a spazz/try-hard most of the time.

[timtonymanu]

Started with Nephew’s situation and then losing his wife in 2018. I think he just mailed it in after that. His dictator style of coaching also doesn’t fly in today’s NBA where coaching is secondary to the demands of the star players. That’s why he stuck with all these crappy vets and Brent forms and Lyles cause most players won’t come here.

Should have retired after last season, tbh.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Very insightful analysis. But it does beg one question. How does the Beautiful Game fit into your narrative? Just an anomalous blip that the Old Asshole ignores?

The Beautiful Game was half court offense at its finest, possible because of a perfect storm of personnel and the way the came was called then. But it was a natural offshoot of Pop's overall game plan:

1) Grind them down with defense and force them to shoot a lower FG% than you. Work the hell out of the defensive glass, but don't chase offensive boards - instead, get back and play defense.
2) On offense, grind them down in the half court. Work to find a better shot, and then work to find one better than that - good shots mean the Spurs most often have a better FG% than the opponent.
3) Slow the pace down to a crawl on both ends. Take freebie fast break points when they present themselves, but don't force it - because wasted possessions are more costly in a slow-paced game.
4) Make sure you have Tim Duncan to anchor the middle on both ends of the floor.

The way the game is being called, it's impossible to play defense the same way, or at the same level.
The Spurs were usually one of the worst offensive rebounding teams in the league, but one of the best defensive rebounding teams. With all the long caroms from all the 3's being jacked up, that's a little less harder to do consistently.
More guys are shooting more 3's, at higher percentages. They will snap off a 3P shot now at the drop of a hat. Makes it harder to force long possessions.
Tim Duncan isn't on the roster anymore.

Pop's one trick won't work anymore.

[sasaint]

The Beautiful Game was half court offense at its finest, possible because of a perfect storm of personnel and the way the came was called then. But it was a natural offshoot of Pop's overall game plan:

1) Grind them down with defense and force them to shoot a lower FG% than you. Work the hell out of the defensive glass, but don't chase offensive boards - instead, get back and play defense.
2) On offense, grind them down in the half court. Work to find a better shot, and then work to find one better than that - good shots mean the Spurs most often have a better FG% than the opponent.
3) Slow the pace down to a crawl on both ends. Take freebie fast break points when they present themselves, but don't force it - because wasted possessions are more costly in a slow-paced game.
4) Make sure you have Tim Duncan to anchor the middle on both ends of the floor.

The way the game is being called, it's impossible to play defense the same way, or at the same level.
The Spurs were usually one of the worst offensive rebounding teams in the league, but one of the best defensive rebounding teams. With all the long caroms from all the 3's being jacked up, that's a little less harder to do consistently.
More guys are shooting more 3's, at higher percentages. They will snap off a 3P shot now at the drop of a hat. Makes it harder to force long possessions.
Tim Duncan isn't on the roster anymore.

Pop's one trick won't work anymore.

I wonder what the average time of the Spurs' offensive possessions was in the Beautiful Game. I could be mistaken, but I recall the Beautiful Game as not so much a half court game but as emphasizing super-quick ball movement and early offense to take advantage of defenses before they could get set in the half-court. But you are absolutely right about 3 things: no more Timmy, the plethora of 3s and no more defense in the NBA.

[SuperCam]

I found it hilarious that both Bagley and Fox refused to take part of Team USA bc they were more focused on the NBA season... Only for both of them to regress badly and the Kings to suck worse than we do :lol

Kangz ahead of spur in standing now :lol

but bailout for Poop as corono virus gets the 2020 games cancelled, no need for a septuagenarian to risk to catch the disease and die after the NBA already lost Kobe this year