**OFFICIAL 2020 Offseason/Draft Thread**

[spurraider21]

Combine just wrapped up, figure it's a good time to get this one fired up

[Millennial_Messiah]

not until march 18th... boo

if brady is a raider i'm not sure his situation is any better considering their weapons suck but he might be able to make an edelman/welker out of renfrow. also, if brady becomes a raider and they win the super bowl next year, is the tuck rule game forgiven?

[spurraider21]

not until march 18th... boo

if brady is a raider i'm not sure his situation is any better considering their weapons suck but he might be able to make an edelman/welker out of renfrow. also, if brady becomes a raider and they win the super bowl next year, is the tuck rule game forgiven?
Darren Waller is a nice weapon. No Gronk, but he's better than anything Brady was throwing to last season.

Tyrell Williams should be a #2 receiver, and I think there's a good chance the Raiders take a receiver in the first round this year (unless they go after AJ Green).

I still think our best bet is to stand pat with Carr, unless we actually receive a good haul for Carr. the stuff im seeing about him being dealt for a 2nd rounder and change is gross.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Darren Waller is a nice weapon. No Gronk, but he's better than anything Brady was throwing to last season.

Tyrell Williams should be a #2 receiver, and I think there's a good chance the Raiders take a receiver in the first round this year (unless they go after AJ Green).

I still think our best bet is to stand pat with Carr, unless we actually receive a good haul for Carr. the stuff im seeing about him being dealt for a 2nd rounder and change is gross.
i'll trade him for prescott straight up ok?

[spurraider21]

i'll trade him for prescott straight up ok?
no way. they are comparable in ability, imo, but carr is under contract through the 2022 season, with his next 3 year salaries being 21.5, 22.1, and 19.9 million

plus, do you really want to reunite carr with cooper?

[Millennial_Messiah]

no way. they are comparable in ability, imo, but carr is under contract through the 2022 season, with his next 3 year salaries being 21.5, 22.1, and 19.9 million

plus, do you really want to reunite carr with cooper?
if cooper really is asking for $20million per annum then I say let him go to the jets or buffalo or something tbh.

[spurraider21]

barring Isaiah Simmons falling to 12, which is highly unlikely, I think the Raiders should go with either of Jeudy/Lamb at #12 and Kenneth Murray at 19

[FrostKing]

https://i.ibb.co/WGK1yMR/Screenshot-2020-03-03-17-17-46-1.png

Princeton students "who?"

[spurraider21]

Garofolo reporting that the Raiders are interested in bringing in Mariota as a backup. That's something I could get behind. He's not starting caliber, but he's a much better backup than dead weights like our backups in recent years... Nathan Peterman, Mike Glennon, EJ Manuel, Connor Cook.

I'm still skeptical that Carr is going to get dealt despite the speculation. It was the same story last offseason with a lot of rumors of the raiders wanting to dump Carr and trade up for Kyler or just take Haskins, and I was never buying those. Carr ended up having a solid season despite a mess at WR. I also don't think he's going to drum up enough in a trade to justify letting him go, particularly with him being locked up for the next 3 season on team-friendly numbers.

we're bringing back the same offense from last year. all 5 OL back. same backfield. tyrell williams will go back to being the #2 WR, renfrow in slot. they just need to spend that #12 pick on one of Lamb/Jeudy and the offense is pretty much set. spend the rest of your capital on defense and that's your best shot at success. hitting refresh at the QB position doesn't make much sense imho, and dumping the affordable carr for a year or 2 of brady seems very shortsighted and stupid. i also cant imagine brady and gruden coexisting

[Millennial_Messiah]

Garofolo reporting that the Raiders are interested in bringing in Mariota as a backup. That's something I could get behind. He's not starting caliber, but he's a much better backup than dead weights like our backups in recent years... Nathan Peterman, Mike Glennon, EJ Manuel, Connor Cook.

I'm still skeptical that Carr is going to get dealt despite the speculation. It was the same story last offseason with a lot of rumors of the raiders wanting to dump Carr and trade up for Kyler or just take Haskins, and I was never buying those. Carr ended up having a solid season despite a mess at WR. I also don't think he's going to drum up enough in a trade to justify letting him go, particularly with him being locked up for the next 3 season on team-friendly numbers.

we're bringing back the same offense from last year. all 5 OL back. same backfield. tyrell williams will go back to being the #2 WR, renfrow in slot. they just need to spend that #12 pick on one of Lamb/Jeudy and the offense is pretty much set. spend the rest of your capital on defense and that's your best shot at success. hitting refresh at the QB position doesn't make much sense imho, and dumping the affordable carr for a year or 2 of brady seems very shortsighted and stupid. i also cant imagine brady and gruden coexisting

I wonder if the free agent market for the raiders might improve vastly because of the high quality of life/nightlife, proximity to all the pussy any man could ask for, and no state income taxes

[leemajors]

I wonder if the free agent market for the raiders might improve vastly because of the high quality of life/nightlife, proximity to all the pussy any man could ask for, and no state income taxes

Doesn't work that well in Miami, either.

[Darth_Pelican]

Some activity going on today:

Dak tagged

AJ Green tagged

Davante Freeman released

Derrick Henry tagged

Shaq Barrett, Leonard Williams, Bud Dupree, Chris Jones all tagged

[Millennial_Messiah]

Some activity going on today:

Dak tagged

AJ Green tagged

Davante Freeman released

Derrick Henry tagged

Shaq Barrett, Leonard Williams, Bud Dupree, Chris Jones all tagged

I guess that's good. I don't want him long term, but I wouldn't want to lose him for a paltry 2021 3rd round comp pick.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Doesn't work that well in Miami, either.

Or Dallas/Houston minus the pussy part, I guess.

But Vegas is sure a unique place, and it has benefits that Miami doesn't. For example, Vegas is pretty natural disaster proof and the weather is usually tolerable.

[Darth_Pelican]

David Johnson & a 2nd for Hopkins & a 4th. Wow

[Holden_Caulfield]

lol texans wtf.

raiders shouldve traded for hopkins

[Robz4000]

:lmao holy shit Bill O'Brien

Johnson is always injured so they traded Hopkins and a 4th for a 2nd.

[Trainwreck2100]

GDamn Dhop ain't never getting a real QB is he?

[spurraider21]

:lmao

[Will Hunting]

:lmao wtf is that trade. Poor Hopkins.

[benefactor]

Glad I'm off today. Time to start drinking.

[spurraider21]

seeing that hopkins trade makes me feel even better about getting a first for amari cooper

[spurraider21]

i mean DJ was supposed to be a salary dump :lol... not a trade asset

[Clipper Nation]

:lmao Bill O'Brien makes GM Doc look good.

[The Gemini Method]

Damn. The NFC West is going to be entertaining next season. That is if we're not all in bubbles.

[Chinook]

Maybe Hopkins is about to be suspended or something. My condolences to benefactor 's liver. Poor guy probably looks like hamburger meat at this point.

Ravens have some movement over the last two days too. Traded a fifth for Campbell then immediately got a fifth back along with a second for Hurst and a fourth. The team is going to look different this year. Not sure they'll be better, but they'll have a higher floor if DeCosta can get some more talent at pass-rusher and WR and find a replacement for Yanda.

[Holden_Caulfield]

hayden hurst netted a 2nd round pick lmao. hurst=hopkins apparently

[spurraider21]

1239624004345958400

[spurraider21]

Maybe Hopkins is about to be suspended or something. My condolences to benefactor (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=13284) 's liver. Poor guy probably looks like hamburger meat at this point.

Ravens have some movement over the last two days too. Traded a fifth for Campbell then immediately got a fifth back along with a second for Hurst and a fourth. The team is going to look different this year. Not sure they'll be better, but they'll have a higher floor if DeCosta can get some more talent at pass-rusher and WR and find a replacement for Yanda.
campbell was a great pickup

[Millennial_Messiah]

campbell was a great pickup

he goes to the one NFL team where defensive players tend to play well at an older age than the rest of the league

[spurraider21]

and they got him for a draft pick they acquired by tracking a scrub kicker who ended up getting cut before the season started :lol

[spurraider21]

1239608696373571584

[benefactor]

Maybe Hopkins is about to be suspended or something. My condolences to benefactor 's liver. Poor guy probably looks like hamburger meat at this point.

Ravens have some movement over the last two days too. Traded a fifth for Campbell then immediately got a fifth back along with a second for Hurst and a fourth. The team is going to look different this year. Not sure they'll be better, but they'll have a higher floor if DeCosta can get some more talent at pass-rusher and WR and find a replacement for Yanda.
1239605964996820993

We've seen this movie before with Clowney. Apparently you have to get along with him or he'll just trade you away...no matter who the fuck you are. He just followed up the worst loss in franchise history with the worst trade in franchise history.

I got nothing.

[SpursforSix]

1239608696373571584
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETP5iZjWsAAkaAW?format=jpg&name=small
:lol

[Robz4000]

1239605964996820993

We've seen this movie before with Clowney. Apparently you have to get along with him or he'll just trade you away...no matter who the fuck you are. He just followed up the worst loss in franchise history with the worst trade in franchise history.

I got nothing.

:lmao I know Robert McNair is cheap as fuck but how does he let this go on?

[spurraider21]

1239636244994424834

[spurraider21]

1239643423256317957

[spurraider21]

trading a first round pick AND giving a guy a massive contract means you get the worst of both worlds. it worked out for the chiefs with frank clark though

[Robz4000]

1239643423256317957

Fuck, I loved Buckner; big part of their defense. Another first round pick though, and they can use that money elsewhere.

[spurraider21]

Fuck, I loved Buckner; big part of their defense. Another first round pick though, and they can use that money elsewhere.
weird choice to pay armstead but trade buckner... i thought they'd have done the opposite. maybe the older armstead wasnt attracting a first?

to be fair buckner is getting paid 4-5 mil per year more than armstead, so that was probably a consideration as well.

niners took buckner in the first round in 2016, got 4 good years from him on a rookie scale deal, and then get a first round pick back for him instead of paying 20+ per year. not bad.

[Robz4000]

weird choice to pay armstead but trade buckner... i thought they'd have done the opposite. maybe the older armstead wasnt attracting a first?

to be fair buckner is getting paid 4-5 mil per year more than armstead, so that was probably a consideration as well

Armstead is nowhere near the player Buckner is (and is still getting better). Still, Lynch has been great at drafting so far so I'll trust in him.

[Holden_Caulfield]

holy shiit if Jags is able to trade Foles I wont be as sad about losing two london home games

[spurraider21]

Jack Conklin to the Browns. thats a good get for them, big loss for titans.

but a very expensive way to start filling out an offensive line that needs a LOT of help

[spurraider21]

Niners got the #13 pick from the Buckner deal, pick right after the Raiders. both are expected to go WR, this time the raiders get the first choice

a couple of years ago the niners picked one ahead of the raiders and took McGlinchey who oakland desperately wanted... we panicked, traded back, and took kolton miller.

cards are now out of the WR market, so it's the Jets at 11, Raiders at 12, and Niners at 13 who are mostly like to go WR, but there are really 2 elite WR options this year (other great ones too, but lamb/jeudy are in their own tier)

[Will Hunting]

1239605964996820993

We've seen this movie before with Clowney. Apparently you have to get along with him or he'll just trade you away...no matter who the fuck you are. He just followed up the worst loss in franchise history with the worst trade in franchise history.

I got nothing.
The Belichick assistant dilemma. All of them have become head coaches and think they can trade players who have one iota of disagreement with the coaching staff.

[spurraider21]

raiders and eagles bidding for byron jones

[spurraider21]

james bradberry to the giants

[spurraider21]

dolphins swooped in and landed byron jones. more than 17 mil per year. miami would have had to significantly outbid philly/LV to land him

30 year old chris harris now the top CB on the market... i think he's going to be an overpay tbh. he's still been great in the slot but has been declining outside

also like desmond trufant. amukamara is always solid yet unspectacular, should be a good get wherever he lands.

[spurraider21]

1239688317869981702

oh yeah...

1239691755043336196

[spurraider21]

colts trading a first or buckner really puts them in win-now mode though... they gotta be pretty confident that they're landing a QB like Rivers (not that i'm sold he puts them over the top)

[benefactor]

The Belichick assistant dilemma. All of them have become head coaches and think they can trade players who have one iota of disagreement with the coaching staff.
He's gone full Schiano. Never go full Schaino.

https://www.sbnation.com/2013/10/23/4862062/greg-schiano-breaking-madden

[FrostKing]

weird choice to pay armstead but trade buckner... i thought they'd have done the opposite. maybe the older armstead wasnt attracting a first?

to be fair buckner is getting paid 4-5 mil per year more than armstead, so that was probably a consideration as well.

niners took buckner in the first round in 2016, got 4 good years from him on a rookie scale deal, and then get a first round pick back for him instead of paying 20+ per year. not bad.
Financial move. The draft pick will allow us to replace Ward (likely resign), Sanders or upgrade the CB position

But I am almost certain we trade down to replenish our draft board

[FrostKing]

Damn. The NFC West is going to be entertaining next season. That is if we're not all in bubbles.
Bloodbath

Compare the NFC West to the AFC West. It is like a collection of XFL teams

[spurraider21]

raiders expected to reach a deal with marcus mariota

savvy move tbh, he will be a high end backup and will be a great scout team guy throughout the season

im glad the brady-raiders rumors are dying down (though i never quite bought it)


update: mariota to raiders official

[Will Hunting]

Jamie Collins and Van Noy both leaving New England, both getting fat deals from ex Patriots assistants.

Assuming Brady actually leaves we might actually be able to tank for Lawrence at this rate.

[spurraider21]

1239742121885798403
DeadlyDynasty

[spurraider21]

:lmao how is stefon diggs more valuable than deandre hopkins?

[spurraider21]

Cooper back to Dallas. he had a TON of leverage and damn, did he use it

1239747073530003457

60 mil guaranteed, too. cowboys going all-in with this roster tbh... and no byron jones

1239748439229050880

[spurraider21]

:lol perfect storm for cooper to get PAID

a) dallas couldn't get a deal done with Dak so they weren't able to franchise tag cooper

b) if you pay dak (whether on the tag or a big contract), he will not really give you returns unless he has a cooper-like threat as a true #1

c) they just got cooper a year ago for a first round pick, they couldnt just let that walk away

and

d) 1239747740009213953

[Will Hunting]

Brady announces he’s leaving but it’s not clear where he’s going. Outside of Tampa and LAC there doesn’t seem to be much interest.

[Monostradamus]

Belichick needs to sign Jameis to ensure a 1-15 season tbh

[Will Hunting]

Belichick needs to sign Jameis to ensure a 1-15 season tbh
The QB they drafted last year looked like shit from what I saw so I’m hoping they just use him, albeit watching Jameis play chuck ball with New England’s dog shit receivers would be entertaining as hell :lol

[Monostradamus]

The QB they drafted last year looked like shit from what I saw so I’m hoping they just use him, albeit watching Jameis play chuck ball with New England’s dog shit receivers would be entertaining as hell :lol
Jameis and N’Keal Harry trying to outdumbass the other would be comedy gold :lol

At this point Bill might as well trade Edelman too.

[Will Hunting]

Jameis and N’Keal Harry trying to outdumbass the other would be comedy gold :lol

At this point Bill might as well trade Edelman too.
Agreed, trade him to wherever Tom goes. There’s no scenario where they’re contending for a super bowl next year, this is at a minimum a 2 year rebuild.

Im still worried Belichick’s ego is going to convince him to mortgage the future in order to outperform whichever team Brady goes to next year.

[Clipper Nation]

Carolina is finally coming to their senses:

1239928851423166464

[SpursforSix]

:lol perfect storm for cooper to get PAID

a) dallas couldn't get a deal done with Dak so they weren't able to franchise tag cooper

b) if you pay dak (whether on the tag or a big contract), he will not really give you returns unless he has a cooper-like threat as a true #1

c) they just got cooper a year ago for a first round pick, they couldnt just let that walk away

and

d) 1239747740009213953

I think if they're tying themselves to Dak, they couldn't go into the season without Cooper. We've seen Dak with a crew of nobody receivers and it doesn't look good.
The Zeke contract was their big mistake imo.

[Monostradamus]

Im still worried Belichick’s ego is going to convince him to mortgage the future in order to outperform whichever team Brady goes to next year.
No doubt that happens. His ego has always taken priority over his “Patriot Way” and he’ll do something stupid and sign Dalton or Rivers just to go 8-8 or 9-7 and screw the team’s long term future.

[Monostradamus]

Carolina is finally coming to their senses:

1239928851423166464
If Bill does this, he’s officially become the Mad King.

[Will Hunting]

No doubt that happens. His ego has always taken priority over his “Patriot Way” and he’ll do something stupid and sign Dalton or Rivers just to go 8-8 or 9-7 and screw the team’s long term future.
The one saving grace there is that they have no cap space now because of all the dead money so they can’t afford Dalton or Rivers.

The obvious move is to spend this offseason managing the cap and tanking for Trevor.

[Darth_Pelican]

Cam Newton likely to be traded
SuperCam

[SuperCam]

:cry


who will be my new team? i will follow Cam :toast

[Monostradamus]

:cry


who will be my new team? i will follow Cam :toast
Would be great if he’s traded to New Orleans to backup Brees :lmao

[Millennial_Messiah]

Brady announces he’s leaving but it’s not clear where he’s going. Outside of Tampa and LAC there doesn’t seem to be much interest.

We'll give you Dak for your 1st and 2nd picks (low picks) in 2020, and we'll sign Brady, how about that?

[Millennial_Messiah]

Brady announces he’s leaving but it’s not clear where he’s going. Outside of Tampa and LAC there doesn’t seem to be much interest.

We'll give you Dak for your 1st and 2nd picks (low picks) in 2020, and we'll sign Brady, how about that?

[Millennial_Messiah]

Cooper back to Dallas. he had a TON of leverage and damn, did he use it

1239747073530003457

60 mil guaranteed, too. cowboys going all-in with this roster tbh... and no byron jones

1239748439229050880
Byron Jones isn't a ballhawk. 2 interceptions over the course of a 5 year rookie contract. Which is perfect for Jason Garrett, but Mike McCarthy won his championship ring with a defense and secondary that produced tons of interceptions, and that's how he intends to win another in Dallas.

Cooper had tons of leverage because the Cowboys traded away a (likely would have been high) 2019 1st round pick to get him, so no way they effectively trade that premium pick for a measly 2021 3rd round comp pick. Plus, before Cooper joined the Cowboys, they were 3-5 that year and the offense was godawful, and they finished 10-6 and went 1-1 in the playoffs.

[Millennial_Messiah]

David Johnson & a 2nd for Hopkins & a 4th. Wow

Bill O'Bummer :lmao :lmao :lmao

[Will Hunting]

We'll give you Dak for your 1st and 2nd picks (low picks) in 2020, and we'll sign Brady, how about that?
No one wants your gay hip twirking porch monkey QB.

[Trainwreck2100]

We'll give you Dak for your 1st and 2nd picks (low picks) in 2020, and we'll sign Brady, how about that?

:lol franchising dak when they could have had a shot at Brady

[spurraider21]

Bridgewater to Carolina... Cam should go to the Bears imo

[SuperCam]

https://twitter.com/SportsCenter/status/1239954076789506049

We just got the best QB from the Saints last year :tu


At least I have a home to return to once Cam retires :cry

[Millennial_Messiah]

No one wants your gay hip twirking porch monkey QB.

whose team will you root for when Bill Belichick signs a porchmonkey to be his next franchise QB (or at least his QB in 2020)? The Brady Buccaneers? :lol

[Millennial_Messiah]

Bridgewater to Carolina... Cam should go to the Bears imo

But can Teddy throw deep, tbh? He can definitely throw to mccaffrey but the Panthers went from being solid to bottom feeder midway thru last season once teams realized they could load up to stop the run and short pass, jet sweep stuff etc and didn't need to respect the deep ball.

[Millennial_Messiah]

https://twitter.com/SportsCenter/status/1239954076789506049

We just got the best QB from the Saints last year :tu


At least I have a home to return to once Cam retires :cry
Why not just root for the Panthers tbh? You've still got a BQB in place long term.

[Will Hunting]

whose team will you root for when Bill Belichick signs a porchmonkey to be his next franchise QB (or at least his QB in 2020)? The Brady Buccaneers? :lol
Belichick isn’t signing a porch monkey.

[spurraider21]

But can Teddy throw deep, tbh? He can definitely throw to mccaffrey but the Panthers went from being solid to bottom feeder midway thru last season once teams realized they could load up to stop the run and short pass, jet sweep stuff etc and didn't need to respect the deep ball.
i think he'll be an upgrade. newton with sapped mobility was just an inaccurate qb. there were a lot of videos of curtis samuel being wide open and cam missing him by a barn.

[spurraider21]

Belichick isn’t signing a porch monkey.
when rivers signs with the colts, pats will trade for brissett

[Will Hunting]

when rivers signs with the colts, pats will trade for brissett
They have like no cap room after franchising Thuney. The plan seems to be to go with Stidham.

[spurraider21]

They have like no cap room after franchising Thuney. The plan seems to be to go with Stidham.
10 win season tbh, no change going from systom to stidstem

[FrostKing]

Chiefs are gonna go 15-1 next season. NFC West is tougher than the entire AFC

[Darth_Pelican]

Brady is signing with the Bucs tomorrow per reports.

[spurraider21]

Brady is signing with the Bucs tomorrow per reports.
per colin cowherd's source. he says not a football source, but somebody on the business/celebrity side


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8FMxRmW5Os&feature=emb_logo

[spurraider21]

but yeah, i dont know where else he'd go at this point. chargers?

the bucs have weapons for him, its a matter of brady delivering the deep ball

[spurraider21]

also this hockey announcer

1239993726883299328

[spurraider21]

Philbilly to the Colts

1 year 25 mil

[spurraider21]

raiders signed witten to a 1 year deal... curious fit. but perhaps they want a seasoned veteran to help waller/moreau develop. both those guys played really well last year. i still think its a really oddball move

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[spurraider21]

raiders also picked up Maliek Collins from the cowboys. whats the word on this guy?

[spurraider21]

Bulaga to the Chargers... perhaps trying to entice Brady with pass protection?

[Will Hunting]

Be surprised if the Pats don’t cut Mohamad Sanu....what a retarded trade that was.

[FrostKing]

Bill B dun goofed. This is the most stubbornness I've seen in the NFL since Jerry & Jimmy divorce

[spurraider21]

Be surprised if the Pats don’t cut Mohamad Sanu....what a retarded trade that was.
brah they traded for Sanu so he can be QB when brady leaves

[Will Hunting]

Bill B dun goofed. This is the most stubbornness I've seen in the NFL since Jerry & Jimmy divorce
The salary cap situation with Tom was untenable once he refused to consider signing an extension prior to March 18. There was no scenario where they could eat 13.5 million of dead cap money AND sign him to a new deal after he entered free agency.

[spurraider21]

im still scratching my head at signing witten :lol

[spurraider21]

raiders now signing jeff heath. cheap deal tho

1240023087657242628

marinelli bringing in all the cowboys

[The Gemini Method]

Las Vegas Cowboys.

[spurraider21]

1240036896287358978

[Will Hunting]

The Bucs are offering him $30 mil / year. If I were him I'd do the same thing since it's well above what a QB who could fall apart at any moment is worth.

[spurraider21]

The Bucs are offering him $30 mil / year. If I were him I'd do the same thing since it's well above what a QB who could fall apart at any moment is worth.
while nothing formal yet... schefter/rapoport are both saying its expected to be tampa and anything else would be a surprise

there are a contingent of raider fans who really want brady. i'm not among them

[Will Hunting]

while nothing formal yet... schefter/rapoport are both saying its expected to be tampa and anything else would be a surprise

there are a contingent of raider fans who really want brady. i'm not among them
I'd be lying if I said I wasn't butthurt about him leaving New England but it's the right move. The Raiders would be crippling their future if they offered him $30 million / year.

UPDATE: Just got a notice on my phone that Schefter is now officially reporting Tampa.

[Will Hunting]

Brady is apparently getting some control of the play calling too.

There was definitely no plausible scenario where he was returning to New England. He was as good as gone months ago.

I think Brady/Arians a recipe for disaster but hope I'm wrong. I'll be cheering for him to get #7 unless he's playing New England.

[spurraider21]

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't butthurt about him leaving New England but it's the right move. The Raiders would be crippling their future if they offered him $30 million / year.
its not just the cap number. its knowing that you are committed to a complete reset at the position in 1-2 years anyway, where with Carr you have a cost controlled QB for the next 3 seasons. and carr has shown he can play at a high level when the pieces are there... he's just not goin to elevate a bad cast. and that's fine.

plus i dont think the raiders would "win now" with brady anyway


UPDATE: Just got a notice on my phone that Schefter is now officially reporting Tampa.
hmm, haven't seen that. but i want the saga to be over

[benefactor]

I just got the notification too. Looks to be done

[spurraider21]

TB to TB

i wonder if chris godwin will give up his jersey number

[leemajors]

raiders also picked up Maliek Collins from the cowboys. whats the word on this guy?

He's a better pass rusher than run defender, plays hard good 3 technique. sorry to see him go, but he was going to be too expensive.

[Will Hunting]

Silver&Black get your ass in here

[Holden_Caulfield]

he has godwin, oj howard and mike evans. maybe theyll sign newly cut dion lewis

[spurraider21]

i think they're going to throw money at melvin gordon

brady is going to watch a reliable RB who can pass protect, catch, and get tough yards

ronald jones is notoriously poor in pass protection, and peyton barber is just awful

[spurraider21]

lol dyansty distmantled by ryan tannehill

[Monostradamus]

lol “dyansty”

been waiting for this moment for 18 years and you still fumbled the handoff :lmao

[Millennial_Messiah]

Belichick isn’t signing a porch monkey.

1. Click username on top right corner of screen (scroll up if necessary)
2. Select "Control Panel"
3. Select "General Settings"
4. Under 'Favorite NFL Team' drop-down menu, select "Tampa Bay Buccaneers".

[Millennial_Messiah]

he has godwin, oj howard and mike evans. maybe theyll sign newly cut dion lewis

And Brate is a better complete TE than Howard. Tons of weapons in Tampa. Without those 30 picks (and a fuckton of fumbles) Tampa was a 10-6 or better playoff team, even with that bad Oline and poor pass coverage.

[SuperCam]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETUSkkxX0AA64wq?format=jpg



Succs :lol

[Will Hunting]

1. Click username on top right corner of screen (scroll up if necessary)
2. Select "Control Panel"
3. Select "General Settings"
4. Under 'Favorite NFL Team' drop-down menu, select "Tampa Bay Buccaneers".
:lmao trying to win a Super Bowl with hip twerk Dak as the QB

[Millennial_Messiah]

He's a better pass rusher than run defender, plays hard good 3 technique. sorry to see him go, but he was going to be too expensive.

He's horrible against the run. One of the worst run stopping DTs in the league consistently as per PFF. One of the main reasons the Rams ran all over us in the '18-19 playoffs. Does get good pressure. He's sort of a poor man's Chris Jones of the Chiefs.

[Millennial_Messiah]

im still scratching my head at signing witten :lol

maybe you can throw a 3rd round pick to the giants to get jason garrett tbh? :lol

[Millennial_Messiah]

:lmao trying to win a Super Bowl with hip twerk Dak as the QB
:lol trying to make the playoffs with Jarrett Stidham as your QB

[Millennial_Messiah]

i think he'll be an upgrade. newton with sapped mobility was just an inaccurate qb. there were a lot of videos of curtis samuel being wide open and cam missing him by a barn.

over Newton yes, but what about Allen? Allen played well early in the year... but in any case, that's a two horse division, and the panthers aren't one of them.

Brees-Brady twice per year for the next couple years will be awesome, tbh

[spurraider21]

over Newton yes, but what about Allen? Allen played well early in the year... but in any case, that's a two horse division, and the panthers aren't one of them.

Brees-Brady twice per year for the next couple years will be awesome, tbh
bridgewater is much better than allen

[FrostKing]

NFC too stacked

[SuperCam]

:lol trying to make the playoffs with Jarrett Stidham as your QB

:lol

[Millennial_Messiah]

Raymond James stadium is finally gonna pack the house like it's 2003

[Will Hunting]

:lol trying to make the playoffs with Jarrett Stidham as your QB
Strawman. I want Stidham to be the starter so they can tank. That’s not making the playoffs.

You OTOH are hoping the Cowboys can contend with this jungle beast leading the way:

https://media.tenor.com/images/2d73f86f889a5928d04368a0d1a206eb/tenor.png

[Millennial_Messiah]

Bruce Arians is a tremendous coach, so it would work very well... NFC too stacked. 2 in the south. 2-3 contenders in the West... East still questionable and up for grabs... North not looking so hot with the Vikings getting worse this week, but you never know.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Eagles cut Malcolm Jenkins. Big loss. Their secondary goes from fragile to easily the worst in the league.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Strawman. I want Stidham to be the starter so they can tank. That’s not making the playoffs.

You OTOH are hoping the Cowboys can contend with this jungle beast leading the way:

https://media.tenor.com/images/2d73f86f889a5928d04368a0d1a206eb/tenor.png
The problem is the Patriots still have a great secondary and special teams so they'll "ugly" their way to an 8-8 or so record.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Arians deserves a ring before his cancer goes terminal, Brady deserves another to spite the Cheatriots and one-up Michael Jordan... and the city of Tampa hosts the Super Bowl next year. Perfect storm. That state has been so sports-distressed for a long time (really since LeBron left in 2014) and fans haven't shown up much to any of the teams' home games, so hopefully this changes that.

[Will Hunting]

The problem is the Patriots still have a great secondary and special teams so they'll "ugly" their way to an 8-8 or so record.
We’ll see how good the secondary is next year. It was awful against Miami and Tennessee and the rest of the defense is going to regress.

The offense might be worst in the NFL.

[Millennial_Messiah]

We’ll see how good the secondary is next year. It was awful against Miami and Tennessee and the rest of the defense is going to regress.

The offense might be worst in the NFL.
the problem last year was the pass rush couldn't pressure for shit, so when QBs finally realized they could take their time when the patriots didn't blitz... (and they did blitz often, but there were a lot of tells)... they knew when they could take their time and even the best DBs in history can't cover for 8 seconds.

DPOY Gilmore, McCourty twins, Harmon, JC Jackson etc are still the best in the biz

[Millennial_Messiah]

Also Belicheat should do a solid and move Edelman to Tampa. Especially now that Ryan Humphries isn't there, Brady will need a go-to-guy in the slot who can tear up the middle when Evans and Godwin are getting heavy coverage outside

[Will Hunting]

the problem last year was the pass rush couldn't pressure for shit, so when QBs finally realized they could take their time when the patriots didn't blitz... (and they did blitz often, but there were a lot of tells)... they knew when they could take their time and even the best DBs in history can't cover for 8 seconds.

DPOY Gilmore, McCourty twins, Harmon, JC Jackson etc are still the best in the biz
Gilmore ended the season horribly, I’m expecting a letdown year from him.

Pass rush is going to be even worse this year without Collins for designed LB blitzes. They’re now very thin at linebacker and would completely fall apart with another Hightower injury.


Also Belicheat should do a solid and move Edelman to Tampa. Especially now that Ryan Humphries isn't there, Brady will need a go-to-guy in the slot who can tear up the middle when Evans and Godwin are getting heavy coverage outside
Agreed, Edelman has no value to them anymore and he’ll have more value to Tampa than any other team.

[Holden_Caulfield]

Also Belicheat should do a solid and move Edelman to Tampa. Especially now that Ryan Humphries isn't there, Brady will need a go-to-guy in the slot who can tear up the middle when Evans and Godwin are getting heavy coverage outside
nah they have scotty whitey miller already

[Monostradamus]

:lol trying to make the playoffs with Jarrett Stidham as your QB
Starting Stidham is a pretty clear indicator that they aren’t trying to make the playoffs.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Starting Stidham is a pretty clear indicator that they aren’t trying to make the playoffs.

If I were commissioner if they started him I'd dock them a first round pick for intentional tanking ..... I mean last year they couldn't with Miami because at least Fitzpatrick is a proven dog

[Will Hunting]

If I were commissioner if they started him I'd dock them a first round pick for intentional tanking ..... I mean last year they couldn't with Miami because at least Fitzpatrick is a proven dog
Better go back and dock the 2011 Colts while you’re at it then. That team was shameless in tanking for Luck.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Agreed, Edelman has no value to them anymore and he’ll have more value to Tampa than any other team.


nah they have scotty whitey miller already

13/200 isn't shit. Maybe he can be the 4th guy or the backup if Edelman needs snaps off. But-


Godwin ----- Edelman ----- Brate - OL - OL - OL - OL - OL - Howard ----------------- Evans


With Brady at QB and no backs


How do you defend that?

[Millennial_Messiah]

Better go back and dock the 2011 Colts while you’re at it then. That team was shameless in tanking for Luck.

I do agree

But Luck retiring ringless before last year was adequate karma.

[Silver&Black]

Silver&Black (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=20666) get your ass in here

Sup

[Monostradamus]

Smart move all around. The Patriots needed to move on, and Tampa Bay created a championship window for themselves. It may only be a one year window, but it’s still open.

[Darth_Pelican]

Sup

Update your picture son.

https://clutchpoints.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Tom-Brady-signs-with.jpg

[Mark Celibate]

So where does this put Tampa in the contender ranks? Since they're a small market team and they've been irrelevant for so long idk what pieces they have in place

[Monostradamus]

So where does this put Tampa in the contender ranks? Since they're a small market team and they've been irrelevant for so long idk what pieces they have in place
Jameis usually put them in a 1-4 hole to start the year, then they’d usually get back to 7-9 or 8-8. They have the talent to be a top 3 NFC team if Brady isn’t completely washed.

[look_at_g_shred]

I miss football so much :cry:

[FrostKing]

So where does this put Tampa in the contender ranks? Since they're a small market team and they've been irrelevant for so long idk what pieces they have in place
In the AFC this would be a 2nd weekend contender. Maybe even AFC Title Game

But in the NFC i still have them on the outside of the Playoffs looking in. In the conversation though!

[spurraider21]

nick foles to the bears

[spurraider21]

hmm, i guess market is treating Chris Harris as a 30 year old CB and he's having none of it. eli apple isn't particularly good, though

1240360254883467265

[spurraider21]

and just like that, chris harris to the chargers. stays in the AFC-W

[spurraider21]

:wow... damn

1240370441740574722

with context

1240380752853950464

[DAF86]

Smart move by Brady, tbh. He goes to a talented team that underachieved last season. If he does good, as is somewhat expected, he will get all the credit. If he sucks, people will say "what did you expect? The dude is 43". Non-loss situation. Smart legacy move, tbh.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Smart move by Brady, tbh. He goes to a talented team that underachieved last season. If he does good, as is somewhat expected, he will get all the credit. If he sucks, people will say "what did you expect? The dude is 43". Non-loss situation. Smart legacy move, tbh.
And an Andy Reid-esque coach with a similar playbook and offensive genius. He turned the joke that was Carson Palmer into a viable star on a contender. Don't forget about that.

And he won't have to face Mahomes until the Super Bowl. Although, in 2020 the NFC South does play the AFC West, so that's something to watch. I believe TB will be the host because TB won in KC last time around in 2016.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Raymond James employees can expect a good raise as the seats get stuffed and a waitlist forms for the first time since around '03

Brady chooses a state with no income tax to play home games, a wise financial move. Chargers offered the same base salary but couldn't offer that part, of course. Brady gets 8 games in Tampa and maybe a couple more in tax free states if he's lucky.

Also, major shout out to Deion Jones #45 for making that epic last pick-six of the season in Week 17. Not because it gave Jameis Loseston the epic 30-30 season, but because it meant the Cowboys only have to play the Falcons instead of Tampa in 2020.

[Silver&Black]

Update your picture son.

https://clutchpoints.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Tom-Brady-signs-with.jpg

Done. TY Fam

[Millennial_Messiah]

NFC West is going to take the AFC East to the woodshed next year. It's going to be LOL worthy. With a 7 team playoff bracket on either side, no way the NFC West doesn't get 3 teams in, and the AFC East has 4 garbage teams and the winner will be very lucky to be 8-8.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Done. TY Fam

Unfortunately though the Bucs are going back to their old unis full time for 2020, or so I read

[Holden_Caulfield]

nick foles to the bears
fuck yeah. i thought we had to give someone a draft pick :lol

now i wonder if theyll draft a qb or get a veteran

[spurraider21]

fuck yeah. i thought we had to give someone a draft pick :lol

now i wonder if theyll draft a qb or get a veteran
go get winston

[Millennial_Messiah]

go get winston

winston would have 15 tds and 45 ints with the lousy receiving options the baguars have tbh :lol

[Ghazi]

:lol ClipperNation

:lol Flacco

[SuperCam]

Flucco not fit to even be MVLamar's 3rd string backup :lmao

[FrostKing]

In the offseason of the QB shuffle, Chargers gonna end up with Tyrod Taylor?

[Millennial_Messiah]

In the offseason of the QB shuffle, Chargers gonna end up with Tyrod Taylor?
lol... he's the poor man's version of Dak Prescott... he is fairly mobile but not really that fast, and he takes a LOT of sacks. He's extremely risk averse against zone coverage. He'll only throw the deep ball against man. Ultra conservative. And their OL is terrible so they'll probably lead the league in sacks absorbed (dubious honor). Sad.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Winston still doesn't have a team. :lol

If nothing else I'd trade Dak for a 1st and 3rd and get Winston for like a frontloaded 2/50 deal with a team option for next year where we don't have dead money if we decline him for 2021.

[Darth_Pelican]

In the offseason of the QB shuffle, Chargers gonna end up with Tyrod Taylor?

Tua or Justin Herbert

[Millennial_Messiah]

Tank for T-Law Baby!! Trade Quack for a 1st, run Zeke into the ground this year, then cut him, preserve Pollard, extend Gallup/Vander Esch, cut Crawford, etc.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Trade Dak
Start Cooper Rush
1st and 10... run Zeke up the middle.
2nd and 8... run Zeke up the middle.
3rd and 5... run Zeke up the middle.
4th and 4... punt.

Rinse, repeat all season long baby.

[spurraider21]

Winston still doesn't have a team. :lol

If nothing else I'd trade Dak for a 1st and 3rd and get Winston for like a frontloaded 2/50 deal with a team option for next year where we don't have dead money if we decline him for 2021.
nobody is going to trade a first for Dak while also having to give him a new contract.

the two forms of currency teams have to improve their teams are draft picks and cap space. its very uncommon for a team to use both resources on the same player at the same time. we saw it with buckner this offseason, frank clark last year, khalil mack the year before (2 firsts). but those moves are increasingly rare. dak is going to want a multi-year deal paying him 35 mil or more. that alone is a big burden for a team to take on, and they're going to NEED their draft picks to continue building a roster while having that contract on the books.

[spurraider21]

Tua or Justin Herbert
probably. though if i'm the chargers im also going to be really tempted to take Isaiah Simmons.

Derwin James is already a monster and one of the most versatile defensive players in the league, having him AND simmons would be nasty. they already have a great corner group with Casey Hayward, Chris Harris, and Desmond King... Bosa/Ingram at the edge, linval joseph up the middle.

but yeah, no QB.

[Millennial_Messiah]

nobody is going to trade a first for Dak while also having to give him a new contract.

the two forms of currency teams have to improve their teams are draft picks and cap space. its very uncommon for a team to use both resources on the same player at the same time. we saw it with buckner this offseason, frank clark last year, khalil mack the year before (2 firsts). but those moves are increasingly rare. dak is going to want a multi-year deal paying him 35 mil or more. that alone is a big burden for a team to take on, and they're going to NEED their draft picks to continue building a roster while having that contract on the books.
I agree but, some teams are desperate. Some teams (see: 2017 Jaguars, 2017 Vikings) might think they are even an average/competent QB (not Mahomes tier, but Dak/Wentz tier) away from a legit shot at a title run.

I don't think Belicheat is going to do it, because he's too smart to not try and tank for T-Law. Plus, the rest of their offense sucks. They're not a QB away IMO.

But some other teams might think they are. 49ers are pretty much committed to an average one who is probably worse than Dak. But there are other teams out there who are doing worse than Prescott. The question is, do we at the moment have a team that is "a QB away"? The Colts would have fit that category, but now they got Rivers. Is Rivers better than Dak? At this stage of his career, nope, but he's certainly a gunslinger and will take tons of risks against zone coverage that Dak wouldn't dare throwing. So it's really up in the air

[Millennial_Messiah]

probably. though if i'm the chargers im also going to be really tempted to take Isaiah Simmons.

Derwin James is already a monster and one of the most versatile defensive players in the league, having him AND simmons would be nasty. they already have a great corner group with Casey Hayward, Chris Harris, and Desmond King... Bosa/Ingram at the edge, linval joseph up the middle.

but yeah, no QB.

you forgot their prized FS Nasir Adderley that they got last year in the draft. Don't know yet if they're bringing back Phillips or not but he's been solid SS/NLB for them over the years.

[spurraider21]

:lmao rams releasing todd gurley

he should go to tampa imo, but apparently has atlanta (he went to georgia) and miami on his shortlist

rams are self destructing with a bunch of bad moves, none of which are the Goff deal tbh. gurley's deal was atrocious. brandin cooks' deal is atrocious. they just gave TWO first round picks for jalen ramsey, which is an all-in move, but here they are releasing gurley and trying to move cooks. they lost dante fowler after trading a 3rd for him.

[spurraider21]

:lol texans trading hopkins for a broken DJ when they could have just signed a broken gurley instead

[Will Hunting]

:lol texans trading hopkins for a broken DJ when they could have just signed a broken gurley instead
I feel bad for Hopkins tbh.

[spurraider21]

I feel bad for Hopkins tbh.
i dont. kyler is a stud, and that offense is as pass happy as they come. houston was always going to implode with all the draft picks they had given away. this draft class has a lot of great tackles... cards will grab one with their first round pick in all likelihood and that offense will hum

[spurraider21]

Sean Payton tested positive for COVID-19

[Millennial_Messiah]

i dont. kyler is a stud, and that offense is as pass happy as they come. houston was always going to implode with all the draft picks they had given away. this draft class has a lot of great tackles... cards will grab one with their first round pick in all likelihood and that offense will hum
I don't think Kyler is a stud. He's a niche guy, a heck of a runner and basically a poor man's Lamar Jackson but in a pass scheme instead of Harbaugh's run-and-run scheme. But he's like 5'8" which means it's going to be tough for him to get passes over the line without being batted down. He's a baseball pitcher, so we know he can throw bullet passes with high heat, but what about the jump ball type of throws that Hopkins feasts on?

[Millennial_Messiah]

Sean Payton tested positive for COVID-19

he's 56, should be fine.

Jerry Jones is 77. I hope he gets it

[Darth_Pelican]

Sean Payton tested positive for COVID-19

Not surprising at all tbh.

[SpursforSix]

:lmao rams releasing todd gurley

he should go to tampa imo, but apparently has atlanta (he went to georgia) and miami on his shortlist

rams are self destructing with a bunch of bad moves, none of which are the Goff deal tbh. gurley's deal was atrocious. brandin cooks' deal is atrocious. they just gave TWO first round picks for jalen ramsey, which is an all-in move, but here they are releasing gurley and trying to move cooks. they lost dante fowler after trading a 3rd for him.

Damn. Gurley and Johnson. Pretty good proof why not to pay an RB big money. Good thing the Cowboys avoided this trap.

[SpursforSix]

I don't think Kyler is a stud. He's a niche guy, a heck of a runner and basically a poor man's Lamar Jackson but in a pass scheme instead of Harbaugh's run-and-run scheme. But he's like 5'8" which means it's going to be tough for him to get passes over the line without being batted down. He's a baseball pitcher, so we know he can throw bullet passes with high heat, but what about the jump ball type of throws that Hopkins feasts on?

Probably fine. By your premise, Kyler's balls will be thrown at steeper angles anyway.

[Millennial_Messiah]

That in mind...

The NFC West is already the best division in football and they get to play both the entire NFC East and entire AFC East in 2020, the worst 2 divisions in football. Get ready for some gaudy 2020 records out West (except for the Rams, they're regressing big time).

Fortunately, 7 teams in the playoffs will almost guarantee that we won't have any 10-6 teams missing the playoffs any more.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Bruce Irvin and Michael Bennett back to Seattle. Bringing the legion of boom front 7 back together to some extent (they still had Wagner and Wright left over at ILB). But their secondary still stinks, especially at CB.

[FrostKing]

Gurley jobless in post Corona world

Bum

[Millennial_Messiah]

Gurley jobless in post Corona world

Bum

he's still getting paid around 8 million a year the next couple years by the Rams' salary cap to literally do nothing. Joke's on the LA Lambs and Sean McGay, per par.


he can sign a vet minimum or similar salary (maybe 2 mil to get him up to 10 mil per annum) to play for literally anyone, and he'd only count a tiny amount against the new team's cap. Would be a hell of a backup for Zeke. Or they can split reps to keep each other fresh for the playoffs Week 17 play-in game that they will inevitably lose and fall to 8-8.

[DAF86]

:lmao rams releasing todd gurley

he should go to tampa imo, but apparently has atlanta (he went to georgia) and miami on his shortlist

rams are self destructing with a bunch of bad moves, none of which are the Goff deal tbh. gurley's deal was atrocious. brandin cooks' deal is atrocious. they just gave TWO first round picks for jalen ramsey, which is an all-in move, but here they are releasing gurley and trying to move cooks. they lost dante fowler after trading a 3rd for him.

Good move, tbh. Running backs don't matter. Any undrafted free agent from the street would provide similar production. It depends on the holes the OL provides.

[Millennial_Messiah]

:lmao rams releasing todd gurley

he should go to tampa imo, but apparently has atlanta (he went to georgia) and miami on his shortlist

rams are self destructing with a bunch of bad moves, none of which are the Goff deal tbh. gurley's deal was atrocious. brandin cooks' deal is atrocious. they just gave TWO first round picks for jalen ramsey, which is an all-in move, but here they are releasing gurley and trying to move cooks. they lost dante fowler after trading a 3rd for him.
they're going to have to pay Ramsey and Kupp soon.

The Goff deal was kind of meh, but mandatory because you'd rather have an average QB than one that keeps you in the gutter year after year no matter how good the rest of your team is.

The Donald deal was exorbitant but you simply can't justify letting him go.

The Cooks deal was pretty bad because of his injury history; he's simply a guy who either needs to take a discount or be a career mercenary. He can take the top off a defense but he's not top tier and he's not as good at his own archetype as Tyreek Hill or DeSean Jackson (when they're healthy).

Naturally the Gurley deal was the worst, and the "don't pay RBs" schtick has officially been validated I believe. Almost every team will go RBBC starting early this decade, if they haven't already.

[spurraider21]

im not laughing because cutting gurley was wrong. i'm laughing because they're eating something like 20 mil in dead cap this year just to dump what was obviously a poor contract to begin with

[Millennial_Messiah]

im not laughing because cutting gurley was wrong. i'm laughing because they're eating something like 20 mil in dead cap this year just to dump what was obviously a poor contract to begin with

around 16 mil but still yeah pretty bad. they decided to cut him outright instead of designating him as a June cut so they're eating all the money this year instead of spreading it over two... which I do think is a pretty smart move.

[DAF86]

Payment tier in the NFL should be:

-QB
-Linemen (D and O)
-Defensive backs
-WR and TE
-LB and RB

In fact, I don't know why LB's are even a thing anymore. Just field 3 DL and 8 defensive backs. Only LB worth having are the elite ones that basically have DB speed.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Payment tier in the NFL should be:

-QB
-Linemen (D and O)
-Defensive backs
-WR and TE
-LB and RB

In fact, I don't know why LB's are even a thing anymore. Just field 3 DL and 8 defensive backs. Only LB worth having are the elite ones that basically have DB speed.
the best LBs in the game like deion jones, bobby wagner, jordan hicks etc are basically strong safeties of the past.

[spurraider21]

Payment tier in the NFL should be:

-QB
-Linemen (D and O)
-Defensive backs
-WR and TE
-LB and RB

In fact, I don't know why LB's are even a thing anymore. Just field 3 DL and 8 defensive backs. Only LB worth having are the elite ones that basically have DB speed.
because they are going to have to take on TE's and occasionally linemen in the run game and the screen game. while the league has become passing oriented, it's not like teams dont run the ball anymore. even KC survived in the superbowl because of damien williams on the ground tbh... but yeah, gone are the days of hulking unathletic "tackle machines"... now teams covet the more mobile linebackers like wagner, deion jones, cj mosely... the top ones in the draft are Isaiah Simmons (he's linebacker/safety), kenneth murray, patrick queen.

if you just go with 7 traditonal DBs you're going to get bulldozed

"base defense" used to be 3-4 or 4-3 fronts with 4 defensive backs, but nowadays the most common personnel group is nickel (1 less linebacker, 1 more corner) because most teams trot out 3 WR's and dont use fullbacks

[leemajors]

because they are going to have to take on TE's and occasionally linemen in the run game and the screen game. while the league has become passing oriented, it's not like teams dont run the ball anymore. even KC survived in the superbowl because of damien williams on the ground tbh... but yeah, gone are the days of hulking unathletic "tackle machines"... now teams covet the more mobile linebackers like wagner, deion jones, cj mosely... the top ones in the draft are Isaiah Simmons (he's linebacker/safety), kenneth murray, patrick queen.

if you just go with 7 traditonal DBs you're going to get bulldozed

"base defense" used to be 3-4 or 4-3 fronts with 4 defensive backs, but nowadays the most common personnel group is nickel (1 less linebacker, 1 more corner) because most teams trot out 3 WR's and dont use fullbacks

Yeah imagine Derrick Henry vs his idea of a defense :lmao

[spurraider21]

Yeah imagine Derrick Henry vs his idea of a defense :lmao
DB's also get murdered in the screen game, or anytime a guard pulls to the outside... unless you have a monster like kam chancellor

[spurraider21]

dont worry guys our stadium will be ok

1240843922978439172

[Millennial_Messiah]

surprised Nevada doesn't consider casinos and escort service essential business since that's how they make their revenue with no state income taxes and an otherwise weak economy

[Darth_Pelican]

dont worry guys our stadium will be ok

1240843922978439172

Booking flight to Vegas for the Saints-Raiders game as soon as the schedule is released. We have a big group coming.

[DAF86]

because they are going to have to take on TE's and occasionally linemen in the run game and the screen game. while the league has become passing oriented, it's not like teams dont run the ball anymore. even KC survived in the superbowl because of damien williams on the ground tbh... but yeah, gone are the days of hulking unathletic "tackle machines"... now teams covet the more mobile linebackers like wagner, deion jones, cj mosely... the top ones in the draft are Isaiah Simmons (he's linebacker/safety), kenneth murray, patrick queen.

if you just go with 7 traditonal DBs you're going to get bulldozed

"base defense" used to be 3-4 or 4-3 fronts with 4 defensive backs, but nowadays the most common personnel group is nickel (1 less linebacker, 1 more corner) because most teams trot out 3 WR's and dont use fullbacks

And whose to say speed isn't a better solution than strength in those situations? LB aren't as strong as linemen either way, might as well go with a faster defensive back than can avoid the block alltogether.

[DAF86]

Yeah imagine Derrick Henry vs his idea of a defense :lmao

If the tackler is in a good position, it doesn't make much of a difference if it's a linebacker or a defensive back making the tackle.

[leemajors]

If the tackler is in a good position, it doesn't make much of a difference if it's a linebacker or a defensive back making the tackle.

You and MM should hang out.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Booking flight to Vegas for the Saints-Raiders game as soon as the schedule is released. We have a big group coming.

Hopefully Gruden won't go for 2 this time, huh? :spin

[spurraider21]

And whose to say speed isn't a better solution than strength in those situations? LB aren't as strong as linemen either way, might as well go with a faster defensive back than can avoid the block alltogether.


If the tackler is in a good position, it doesn't make much of a difference if it's a linebacker or a defensive back making the tackle.
:lol

[SpursforSix]

:lol

https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/18/608/9608018.gif

[Millennial_Messiah]

https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/18/608/9608018.gif

Agree 95% but in all fairness, not sure if it would have made a difference if that was prime "Lewis #52" instead of earl thomas #29.

[DAF86]

https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/18/608/9608018.gif

99% of the LB would get stiff armed the same way if they go so soft and erect (no pun).

Actually, 90% of the LB probably don't even get to Henry to even attempt the tackle. If Thomas goes for the legs there, Henry is going down.

[DAF86]

You and MM should hang out.


:lol

You guys sound like 1990 basketball fans, tbh. I'll just wait for time to prove me right.

[DAF86]

Speed >>>>>>>> strength for all non-linemen football players. In fact, even for linemen speed is still pretty fucking important.

[leemajors]

You guys sound like 1990 basketball fans, tbh. I'll just wait for time to prove me right.

We've just been watching football for a long time and have an idea of what we are talking about. The game speeds up, then it slows down. When you get smaller LBs, bigger running backs run them over and the league adjusts. Nothing is static or absolute.

[spurraider21]

this is like when avante wannted to take fast midgets like dri archer and make them defensive ends

[leemajors]

this is like when avante wannted to take fast midgets like dri archer and make them defensive ends

:lol

[spurraider21]

melvin gordon signs with broncos for 2/16

:lol he held out last year after turning down 4/40

[SpursforSix]

99% of the LB would get stiff armed the same way if they go so soft and erect (no pun).

Actually, 90% of the LB probably don't even get to Henry to even attempt the tackle. If Thomas goes for the legs there, Henry is going down.

Yeah...I know. I just didn't want to spend the time looking for a gif of an RB running over a DS player who was in good position.
I just don't buy your premise that a CB/S in the right position is sufficient to replace an LB.

[Millennial_Messiah]

melvin gordon signs with broncos for 2/16

:lol he held out last year after turning down 4/40

stephen jackson, 2003, part deux

:lol atlanta hawks

[DAF86]

We've just been watching football for a long time and have an idea of what we are talking about. The game speeds up, then it slows down. When you get smaller LBs, bigger running backs run them over and the league adjusts. Nothing is static or absolute.

Are you implying I don't?

Heck, I don't even think what I'm saying is all that revolutionary. With each passing season we are seeing teams play lineups with less and less LB's. 2 and even 1 LB lineups are pretty normal nowadays. I don't think it's that crazy to say that we are soon to experience teams with no LB lineups in certain situations (that later would expend more and more depending on the success they have).

This reminds me of the center discussion in the NBA. Not too long ago people would laugh at the idea of a no center lineup. Nowadays, if you are still laughing at that, you haven't been paying attention. When advanced NFL stats get to the point NBA advanced stats are, it wouldn't surprise me to see that Linebackers aren't really all that necessary, if at all.

[spurraider21]

Are you implying I don't?

Heck, I don't even think what I'm saying is all that revolutionary. With each passing season we are seeing teams play lineups with less and less LB's. 2 and even 1 LB lineups are pretty normal nowadays. I don't think it's that crazy to say that we are soon to experience teams with no LB lineups in certain situations (that later would expend more and more depending on the success they have).

This reminds me of the center discussion in the NBA. Not too long ago people would laugh at the idea of a no center lineup. Nowadays, if you are still laughing at that, you haven't been paying attention. When advanced NFL stats get to the point NBA advanced stats are, it wouldn't surprise me to see that Linebackers aren't really all that necessary, if at all.
tbh you are implying it

[Monostradamus]

Speed >>>>>>>> strength for all non-linemen football players. In fact, even for linemen speed is still pretty fucking important.
They should just get Usain Bolt to play linebacker then!

[Monostradamus]

tbf, the “run stuffing” interior linebackers like Brandon Spikes who can’t cover running backs in the flat are going fully extinct, but to think linebackers will be phased out completely is just ridiculous and definitely something that a guy from Argentina would come up with.

[Will Hunting]

Are you implying I don't?

Heck, I don't even think what I'm saying is all that revolutionary. With each passing season we are seeing teams play lineups with less and less LB's. 2 and even 1 LB lineups are pretty normal nowadays. I don't think it's that crazy to say that we are soon to experience teams with no LB lineups in certain situations (that later would expend more and more depending on the success they have).

This reminds me of the center discussion in the NBA. Not too long ago people would laugh at the idea of a no center lineup. Nowadays, if you are still laughing at that, you haven't been paying attention. When advanced NFL stats get to the point NBA advanced stats are, it wouldn't surprise me to see that Linebackers aren't really all that necessary, if at all.
That’s because there’s more and more passing so your linebackers are spending more time in coverage and less time trying to shed blocks, plug gaps or tackle 240 pound running backs, which is different than what this conversation is about. It’s not easy to simply “avoid the block” when you’re trying to tackle in a tight space simply by being faster, which is why linebackers still play. A 220 pound safety trying to avoid getting blocked by Gronk is going to end up getting pancaked.

Everyone is in agreement though that the tackle machine linebacker with mediocre athleticism (Zac Thomas, Takeo Spikes, etc) is a thing of the past, but you still need to have some size at the linebacker position for between the tackle running.

[spurraider21]

That’s because there’s more and more passing so your linebackers are spending more time in coverage and less time trying to shed blocks, plug gaps or tackle 240 pound running backs, which is different than what this conversation is about. It’s not easy to simply “avoid the block” when you’re trying to tackle in a tight space simply by being faster, which is why linebackers still play. A 220 pound safety trying to avoid getting blocked by Gronk is going to end up getting pancaked.

Everyone is in agreement though that the tackle machine linebacker with mediocre athleticism (Zac Thomas, Takeo Spikes, etc) is a thing of the past, but you still need to have some size at the linebacker position for between the tackle running.
not to mention the screen game... linemen and tight ends get involved there too, and you need guys strong enough to stack and shed to make a play on the ball carrier. you cant have a CB trying to get around a releasing tackle. gonna get blown up. outside of the best safeties, DBs are not usually going to bring down the better running backs with a solo tackle

[Millennial_Messiah]

That’s because there’s more and more passing so your linebackers are spending more time in coverage and less time trying to shed blocks, plug gaps or tackle 240 pound running backs, which is different than what this conversation is about. It’s not easy to simply “avoid the block” when you’re trying to tackle in a tight space simply by being faster, which is why linebackers still play. A 220 pound safety trying to avoid getting blocked by Gronk is going to end up getting pancaked.

Everyone is in agreement though that the tackle machine linebacker with mediocre athleticism (Zac Thomas, Takeo Spikes, etc) is a thing of the past, but you still need to have some size at the linebacker position for between the tackle running.

Hightower, Collins, Bentley et al

[Millennial_Messiah]

not to mention the screen game... linemen and tight ends get involved there too, and you need guys strong enough to stack and shed to make a play on the ball carrier. you cant have a CB trying to get around a releasing tackle. gonna get blown up. outside of the best safeties, DBs are not usually going to bring down the better running backs with a solo tackle

but you need guys fast enough to get there too, which is how teams started exposing the patriots on early downs because their big tackle machine, block shedding LBs aren't agile enough to get out there in time.

Ideally you have a team full of Derwin James and Malcolm Jenkins type of guys (Kam Chancellor was a beast in his prime), but most of the time you don't

[spurraider21]

but you need guys fast enough to get there too, which is how teams started exposing the patriots on early downs because their big tackle machine, block shedding LBs aren't agile enough to get out there in time.

Ideally you have a team full of Derwin James and Malcolm Jenkins type of guys (Kam Chancellor was a beast in his prime), but most of the time you don't
yeah derwin james is a monster

isaiah simmons could very well become the best defensive weapon in the league. interested to see where he lands in the draft. simmons falling is the only reason i could imagine the raiders not going WR at 12, though i find that to be next to impossible

[Will Hunting]

Hightower, Collins, Bentley et al
Your obsession with the Patriots is unhealthy. Since they don’t have Brady anymore can you find another team to use in your retarded comparisons?

[Millennial_Messiah]

Your obsession with the Patriots is unhealthy. Since they don’t have Brady anymore can you find another team to use in your retarded comparisons?

I'm just stating facts. Who other than Belichick keeps around that many hulking linebackers these days?

I'm actually rooting for the Bucs next year, tbh. That is if the Cowboys don't win (lol Dak, but I do like McCarthy over Garrett).

[Millennial_Messiah]

yeah derwin james is a monster

isaiah simmons could very well become the best defensive weapon in the league. interested to see where he lands in the draft. simmons falling is the only reason i could imagine the raiders not going WR at 12, though i find that to be next to impossible

I wouldn't mind the Cowboys getting him if he falls like Derwin James fell. Would look great in the revamped defensive backfield next to Haha Clinton Dicks now that we exported the worst starting safety in the league (and basically Garrett's version of Bonner to Popovich) to your Raiders.

[Will Hunting]

I'm just stating facts. Who other than Belichick keeps around that many hulking linebackers these days?

I'm actually rooting for the Bucs next year, tbh. That is if the Cowboys don't win (lol Dak, but I do like McCarthy over Garrett).
Belichick places an unusually high amount of emphasis on setting the edge which is why he keeps them around. Collins is also more versatile than your typical run stuffing LB, he’s athletic enough to cover in the flat and is a great blitzer. Hightower is also not a complete liability in coverage. He’s not great but he can survives

It’s the AJ Hawks of the world that can’t even cover in the flat who have no future.

[spurraider21]

Belichick places an unusually high amount of emphasis on setting the edge which is why he keeps them around. Collins is also more versatile than your typical run stuffing LB, he’s athletic enough to cover in the flat and is a great blitzer. Hightower is also not a complete liability in coverage. He’s not great but he can survives

It’s the AJ Hawks of the world that can’t even cover in the flat who have no future.
yeah some of the unathletic guys at least have high enough football IQ where they can at least position themselves ideally, read plays to get there. hightower is one of them. burfict was somewhat the same way. wasn't very fast but was never a liability in coverage

[Millennial_Messiah]

Belichick places an unusually high amount of emphasis on setting the edge which is why he keeps them around. Collins is also more versatile than your typical run stuffing LB, he’s athletic enough to cover in the flat and is a great blitzer. Hightower is also not a complete liability in coverage. He’s not great but he can survives

It’s the AJ Hawks of the world that can’t even cover in the flat who have no future.
I think Belichick will pull a Jason Garrett next year and the Patriots will go 8-8 or 9-7 with whatever QB they have and that will take them of course out of the T-Law sweepstakes.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Belichick places an unusually high amount of emphasis on setting the edge which is why he keeps them around. Collins is also more versatile than your typical run stuffing LB, he’s athletic enough to cover in the flat and is a great blitzer. Hightower is also not a complete liability in coverage. He’s not great but he can survives

It’s the AJ Hawks of the world that can’t even cover in the flat who have no future.

yeah some of the unathletic guys at least have high enough football IQ where they can at least position themselves ideally, read plays to get there. hightower is one of them. burfict was somewhat the same way. wasn't very fast but was never a liability in coverage
Yeah that's an excellent point on Burfict, but sometimes him being a step behind meant either a dirty hit or no hit, which got him basically kicked out of the league.

[spurraider21]

Yeah that's an excellent point on Burfict, but sometimes him being a step behind meant either a dirty hit or no hit, which got him basically kicked out of the league.
but those types of players are exceedingly rare. the best linebackers are the mobile ones like bobby wagner, deion jones, luke kuehcly (retired)... its why the cowboys have been good with sean lee, jaylon smith, LVE

its why the raiders just spent a pretty penny on cory littleton

[Monostradamus]

Hightower, Collins, Bentley et al
tbh on any other team Hightower would be a huge liability, but Belichick knows how to avoid putting him in bad spots and allow him to be a high IQ playmaker.

Still amazes me that all the Rams had to do was get Hightower trapped in matchups vs Gurley and they would have racked up 30+ pts, but they only even attempted it like twice :lol

[Millennial_Messiah]

tbh on any other team Hightower would be a huge liability, but Belichick knows how to avoid putting him in bad spots and allow him to be a high IQ playmaker.

Still amazes me that all the Rams had to do was get Hightower trapped in matchups vs Gurley and they would have racked up 30+ pts, but they only even attempted it like twice :lol
Gurley was medically compromised by that point and CJ Anderson is probably slower than Hightower. :lol

[Monostradamus]

Gurley was medically compromised by that point and CJ Anderson is probably slower than Hightower. :lol
Gurley showed enough speed and explosion in that game to think that even in limited snaps, he could have devastated the Pats defense. Young Genius McVay completely botched the snaps that he gave Gurley.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Gurley showed enough speed and explosion in that game to think that even in limited snaps, he could have devastated the Pats defense. Young Genius McVay completely botched the snaps that he gave Gurley.

McGay botched the game away completely, which was inexcusable especially given how Doug Pederson tore that defense a new one just the previous year.

Goff was pretty bad too, but the Rams had tons of chances and they didn't need to score a ton of points to win that game, and they somehow blew it.

McGay called way too many of his usual zone beater plays instead of the crossing, dragging, and outside comeback/deep-nine routes that the Eagles had thrived upon the previous SB. The Rams struggled against man coverage all year (see the Packers game they won by the skin of their teeth midseason)... and it just so happens Belichick loves to play more man, and man-blitz than any other team in football.

I blame that game on McGay for never being able to solve man coverage and blitzes all of 2018, and teams figured that out in 2019 and thus the Rams decline happened.

[DAF86]

tbh you are implying it


tbf, the “run stuffing” interior linebackers like Brandon Spikes who can’t cover running backs in the flat are going fully extinct, but to think linebackers will be phased out completely is just ridiculous and definitely something that a guy from Argentina would come up with.

I'll get to you in a couple of years when teams field one super athletic token LB and nothing else. It won't be the first nor the last ocassion time has proven me to be right, tbh. This feels like going back to '09 when I signed to ST and I had to argue with folks about who was better between Manu and Joe Johnson. ":cry Johnson averages 25 ppg, he's clearly better :cry"

[Monostradamus]

I'll get to you in a couple of years when teams field one super athletic token LB and nothing else. It won't be the first nor the last ocassion time has proven me to be right, tbh. This feels like going back to '09 when I signed to ST and I had to argue with folks about who was better between Manu and Joe Johnson. ":cry Johnson averages 25 ppg, he's clearly better :cry"
Yeah, and this isn’t basketball, where the 3 point line is the ultimate equalizer.

If you think 190 lb defensive backs are ever going to consistently take down 230 lb running backs, you’re a fucking retard.

The only way your prediction becomes a reality is if the NFL becomes flag football.

[DAF86]

tbh you are implying it


Yeah, and this isn’t basketball, where the 3 point line is the ultimate equalizer.

If you think 190 lb defensive backs are ever going to consistently take down 230 lb running backs, you’re a fucking retard.

The only way your prediction becomes a reality is if the NFL becomes flag football.

It doesn't matter. You run the ball, I will pass it; and let's see who wins. Like I said, I'll get to you in a couple of years.

[Monostradamus]

It doesn't matter. You run the ball, I will pass it; and let's see who wins. Like I said, I'll get to you in a couple of years.
A power running game exploiting smaller DB/LB hybrids just won the Super Bowl a year ago :lmao

[DAF86]

A power running game exploiting smaller DB/LB hybrids just won the Super Bowl a year ago :lmao

By scoring 13 pts? Wow, what dominance :lol

Put Mahomes on the other side and you lose by 20.

[Monostradamus]

By scoring 13 pts? Wow, what dominance :lol

Put Mahomes on the other side and you lose by 20.
That happened two weeks earlier. Spoiler alert: they beat Mahomes too.

[Monostradamus]

:lmao @ moving the goalposts. “They didn’t dominate while winning, doesn’t count!”

[spurraider21]

"hey i've been right before. that means you should listen to me here"

[DAF86]

That happened two weeks earlier. Spoiler alert: they beat Mahomes too.

They beat him by "power running" or by throwing for 350 yards?

[Will Hunting]

A power running game exploiting smaller DB/LB hybrids just won the Super Bowl a year ago :lmao
:lol and it won with a shitty running back who isn’t elite at anything. Just imagine that offense with a prime Adrian Peterson instead.