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KoriEllis
07-19-2003, 12:27 PM
I was told that if the Spurs do not trade anyone by Sunday night, then they won't be trading anyone and will go on to signing free agents.

They have a few trade ideas on the table, but if nothing has materialized by tomorrow night, they will go to other signings.

:elephant

ducks
07-19-2003, 12:39 PM
seems to me they are having a hard time on agreeing with the amount of money to pay SJ.
Dan Fegan, who remains reluctant to return phone calls

picnroll
07-19-2003, 12:42 PM
I'd take Pippen over having to trade players to get Spree. In fact I'd take Pippen over Spree period.

KoriEllis
07-19-2003, 12:45 PM
picnroll, the issue with Pippen is over the term of contract. Pippen wants a multi-year deal, the Spurs want to offer him one-year.

Ducks, I read that too -- I didn't understand if it meant the agent didn't return the Spurs' phone calls, or the agent didn't return the writer's calls (trying to get information).

picnroll
07-19-2003, 12:51 PM
It ain't my money but what else have they got to do with it. If they're willing to dump a ton of money on Spree for two years I'm not sure why they don't want to offer a lot less for Pippen for two years than Spree for two unless they're caught in some kind of crunch trying to re-sign Manu.

ducks
07-19-2003, 12:54 PM
they problem with over paying sj to keep him is that manu then will want to get over paid

and sj deal would be more then one year

WriterNum934
07-19-2003, 01:46 PM
Sign Jax to a 5 year deal around 25 million dollars.

Sign Horry to the vet for one year.

Sign Pippen to a 2 year deal around 4 million with a third year team option.

Sign Eric Piatkowski to a 2 year deal around 9 million with a third year team option.

ducks
07-19-2003, 01:50 PM
3 years for pippen?

WriterNum934
07-19-2003, 01:53 PM
Ahhh, two year, third year a team opinion.

He wants a Multi-year deal.

KoriEllis
07-19-2003, 01:57 PM
Sign Jax to a 5 year deal around 25 million dollars.

Just my opinion, but I think that's way too much money for Jack.

I would like a 3-year/10M contract for him.

NCaliSpurs
07-19-2003, 01:58 PM
Why would we offer such an old player, Pippen, a guaranteed mult-year contract? I could see the Spurs offering a multi-year contract, but only with team options on year 2 and/or 3.

Horry will not play on the Spurs team for 1 million when he can get more from Dallas.

WriterNum934
07-19-2003, 02:07 PM
Why would we offer such an old player

Did you not watch the Blazer-Mavs series?

Pippen is a great leader. He'd be awesome in SA coming off the bench 5-10 minutes a game.

NCaliSpurs
07-19-2003, 02:19 PM
I watched Pippen on the sidelines. He wore some lovely suits.

And then I watched him put up these gaudy numbers:


G GS MPG FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
First Round
4 1 18.8 9-22 .409 3-9 .333 2-2 1.000 .50 2.30 2.80 3.3 .00 .00 1.75 2.00 5.8


Pippen has problems with his wheels, and at his age they aren't going away.

He could be a good player of the bench for 10-15 minutes and the occasional DNP-CD, but he can't play more than that if you want him around at all for the playoffs.

KoriEllis
07-19-2003, 02:22 PM
I'd like Pippen here for two-year, 2nd year team option. He has missed about 20 games a year each of the last three years. He's still a contributor, but I just don't know how much longer he can hang.

baseline bum
07-19-2003, 02:33 PM
Jax: 3 yrs, $12 million
Horry: 2 yrs, $5.5 million
Pippen: 2yrs, free Whataburger

ALSPURS
07-19-2003, 02:49 PM
Spree!!!!

Get him ....... We need something.

MI21
07-19-2003, 03:14 PM
Even as one of Jackson's biggest fans and defenders, I want no part of a 5yr deal with Buckets.

The Spurs need to make sure he keeps improving and doesnt get lazy, and a 5yr contract gives a person a little bit to much comfort and you may start resting on improving your game as hard as you would on a 3 yr contract for less money.

I dont think Jax would do that, but still, NBA players these days...

NCaliSpurs
07-19-2003, 03:21 PM
Jackson has earned a 3 year 12-15 million contract.

Jackson has a Bowen like influence on the game, though he is not "great" in any one area, unlike the defensive minded Bowen.

Thus, he should probably get Bowen-like dollars.

junglespur
07-19-2003, 03:31 PM
I totally agree with MI21 and Kori about Jax's contract. I'm sure that Pop and RC still remember what happened with Jaren...

Our pitch to SJax ought to be that he should prove himself for another 2-3 years at a mid-sized contract ($3m per) with the Spurs. If he performs consistently, he will be all set to get a big long-term deal next (and he is young enough that makes sense). This franchise rewards loyal role players who've performed well over time. Look at Malik's contract. Think 5-7 yrs for $35-40m. Look even at the "payoff" years we gave to Avery and Ferry (who were both over the hill at the time). But not yet. Sjax, you need to prove that last year was not a one-time fluke and that you're committed to continuing to improve as a player.

On the other hand, if SJax leaves, he could easily get into a situation where his poor ballhandling, inconsistent shooting, flaring temper, and sometimes immature attitude could land him in the coaches doghouse and out of the rotation. Sure, maybe you can squeeze a few more bucks out of someplace like Denver. But you could easily be stuck behind Camelo and Rodney White, without PT, without a coach who believes in you, on a badly losing team ... Fighting for minutes with Jeff Trepagnier backing up a 20 yr old. That sounds like fun. And then there's no big next contract, no future, and no hope...

SJax, it's time for you take the decision out of the hands of a greedy bill-counter like Dan Fegan and stand up and figure out what you want to do with your career. Think long-term. Spurs are where you'll get the support, coaching, AND the most money, over the long-term ...

Cassius Clay
07-19-2003, 04:36 PM
Jax 4 years starting at $4 mil per
Horry 1 year $6 mil
Pippen 2 years $4 mil per
TBest 1 year $2 mi

l

Admiral
07-19-2003, 05:02 PM
they problem with over paying sj to keep him is that manu then will want to get over paid -ducks

I don't think we should overpay SJax, but he has earned a contract for $4-$5 million a year. I think a three year deal or so would be about right.

As for Manu, why would he think he deserves more than SJax at this point? SJax is the one who started last year and put up better numbers. Manu will certainly start to play more, but it is beyond me why he would automatically think he deserves more than what we would pay SJax.

Aggie Hoopsfan
07-19-2003, 05:44 PM
Admiral,

By the time this season is over Manu will have justified a big contract in the eyes of even the skeptics.

I already see that he's worth it, he has "it", the knack for being in the right place at the right time making the right plays.

That's something you can't teach.

AHF

KoriEllis
07-19-2003, 06:13 PM
Whatever the Spurs are going to do, I hope they do it quick.

This free agency period drives me crazy. I stay up late. I check the news wires all day. And I'm overall much more bitchy.

Damn, it's just basketball :fro

ducks
07-19-2003, 06:16 PM
man I was hoping you heard something:cry

Yes I need to get some stuff done and I keep putting it off to see who they get

ShoogarBear
07-19-2003, 06:17 PM
I don't think Jackson deserves Bowen money yet, for the fact that you KNOW that Bowen is going to give you EVERY NIGHT great defense at a minimum.

When Jack is on, he's certainly better all around, but he needs consistency. If he can achieve that and cut down on the turnovers, he'll eventually be worth much more than Bowen.

ShoogarBear
07-19-2003, 06:31 PM
Admiral: I agree with you. I don't understand why SJax has to "prove" himself for another 2-3 years to get decent money, while folks are ready to back up the truck for Manu.

Does Manu have more potential than SJax? Probably.

But the objective fact is when it discussing compensation for on-the-court accomplishments, Manu hasn't done Jax yet.

Spursman
07-19-2003, 10:02 PM
I think he still needs to prove himself. He has really only had one good year. Give him a couple of more years to see what he really does.

T Park Num 9
07-19-2003, 11:20 PM
yeah soogar Manu hasnt done shit

:rolleyes

I just love these Manu haters, who think that hes just some scrub from the bench.

Be brings billions more to the table than Jack and im a big jackson fan.

ALSPURS
07-20-2003, 12:08 AM
With 12 million I never thought we would be trading players....

But If we can get Spree for JAX and Speedy do it.....

Admiral
07-20-2003, 01:32 AM
T Park, how is it being a "Manu hater" to question why he deserves more money than Stephen Jackson? He didn't even start last year!

Nobody is debating his potential. We can all agree that he has a lot of talent, and that he has a very high basketball I.Q. He has had some flashes of brilliance, but he is still very inconsistent (and that's to be expected). Let's not get ahead of ourselves - Manu's not there yet.

Manu will have to have an absolutely huge year this year for us to worry about having enough to re-sign him. He would need to start and get us at least 10 and probably 15 points a game, plus a handful of assists, rebounds, and points - in other words, become the player that many people make him out to be now - in order to justify a contract of $5 to $7 million per. And I assume that's the amount many of the non -"Manu haters" have in mind.

I still think SJax will be better. :wink

donkey2400
07-20-2003, 01:41 AM
Admiral,

With all due respect SJax is not even in the outerstands of a ball park compared to Manu with respect to mental maturity, BBall IQ, floor sense and anticipation. He however has shown that he is more athletic and a better shooter than Manu from the 3pt line. Let Manu get a chance to start, then the issue of who is a better player will be settled once and for all.

MannyIsGod
07-20-2003, 01:41 AM
Admiral,

Excuse Tpark, he likes to exagerate by 10 fold.

I thin Manu will avg 15-4-6 next year if he gets 30 minutes a game.

I think Jax has potential, just nto as much as Manu.

Manu also was more efficent last year, even though Jax has had more minutes.

We'll see though, I look forward to watching both of them play.

Solid D
07-20-2003, 01:43 AM
From a sheer basketball POV and entertainment factor, I'd take Manu over Jack. Last year, they were both key to the Spurs championship. Without one or the other, I don't think they would have made it all the way (no way to know for sure).

I would sure love to see both playing together in the 4th quarters, again.


Whatever the Spurs are going to do, I hope they do it quick. This free agency period drives me crazy. I stay up late.- Kori

Being a Spurs fan = part ownership in the team. We are all surrogate owners.