Article: Analyzing The Potential Trade Values Of The Spurs Vets

[cd021]

https://www.spurstalk.com/expendable-trade-value-san-antonio-spurs-veterans/

The Gist: Taking a look at the potential trade values of DeRozan, Gay, Mills, and Aldridge.

[JeffDuncan]

A good article for discussion.

Nobody else wants the Mills contract. There are teams that would take Mills, himself, but they don't want to pay him that much.

Same with Gay. His contract salary is too high.

The Spurs shouldn't consider trading LMA unless they can get a big to replace most of what he does. Maybe somebody knows of such a player.

The Spurs are on track to have a delightful amount of cap space in the summer of '21. Cutting into that for the sake of an extension for DDR would be lunacy.

[KobesAchilles]

I think LMA is the only one anybody would want. I can see the Warriors offering us a 1st rounder next year for him. I think Milwaukee would do the same next year. Portland might roll the dice as well depending on who they draft this year. They can’t afford to waste another year of Lollards prime. So I say 50:50 LMA is gone next year.

Rudy Gay: Nobody wants that corpse. Maybe Marks would do us a favor and trade for Gay to “strengthen” his bench next year when the Nets are contenders. They won’t really be contenders tho and KD is done being elite. There’s no other scenario I see of a team wanting Gay. 10% chance he’s gone next year.

Mills:lol dude is a lifer

DeRozan hopefully opts out of his contract and bolts. The dude looks done this year anyways. He is mentally checked out. I’m actually low key proud of DJ with his constant positive attitude and his desire to win even though this is a lost year. If he does decide to opt in then nobody will trade for him anyways. It will be the exact same situation as last year. None of the good teams will want him and none of the bad teams will trade for him bc they no he won’t sign with them. Maybe (and I say maaaaybe) Toronto takes him back after losing in the 1st round this year. 100% hope he’s gone at the end of this year but if not 90% chance he stays with the Spurs the whole contract

[gambit1990]

at the very least, move demar and gay.

[Maddog]

Nice article
They will all be expiring contracts so no long term commitment for the buyer.
I come to think DDR is probably going to play out his contract. I suspect his market value is limited. As pointed out earlier by TIMVP the Spurs with a lot of tweaking have made him productive- not just empty stats. Can't see a team going for him
Such an unusual player, just doesn't fit today's game very well

[Prime BEEF]

I think LMA is the only one anybody would want. I can see the Warriors offering us a 1st rounder next year for him. I think Milwaukee would do the same next year. Portland might roll the dice as well depending on who they draft this year. They can’t afford to waste another year of Lollards prime. So I say 50:50 LMA is gone next year.

Rudy Gay: Nobody wants that corpse. Maybe Marks would do us a favor and trade for Gay to “strengthen” his bench next year when the Nets are contenders. They won’t really be contenders tho and KD is done being elite. There’s no other scenario I see of a team wanting Gay. 10% chance he’s gone next year.

Mills:lol dude is a lifer

DeRozan hopefully opts out of his contract and bolts. The dude looks done this year anyways. He is mentally checked out. I’m actually low key proud of DJ with his constant positive attitude and his desire to win even though this is a lost year. If he does decide to opt in then nobody will trade for him anyways. It will be the exact same situation as last year. None of the good teams will want him and none of the bad teams will trade for him bc they no he won’t sign with them. Maybe (and I say maaaaybe) Toronto takes him back after losing in the 1st round this year. 100% hope he’s gone at the end of this year but if not 90% chance he stays with the Spurs the whole contract
Mills and Gay combined are $26.5M in expiring contracts. You could trade them for a less than desirable contract and make that team give you a 1st rd pick for taking on the contract. Good examples would be Al Horford and Kevin Love.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

A good article for discussion.

Nobody else wants the Mills contract. There are teams that would take Mills, himself, but they don't want to pay him that much.

Same with Gay. His contract salary is too high.



patty has been >>>>>> gay this year for << money


tbh

[cd021]

I think Aldridge is actually the most trade-able tbh. I still think Miami and Portland are the most obvious options, particularly Miami.

They can trade their 1st after making a selection in this year's draft but the Heat and the Spurs can agree on the framework of a deal before-hand. Miami can also absorb Aldridge into their cap space, if the deal is completed on July 1st though they may want the Spurs to take back Olynyk's expiring.

Portland would have to move Ariza, Hood, and Collins to match salaries for Aldridge. Ariza quickly declining, Hood will miss most of next season and Collins has yet to stay healthy enough to breakout, three seasons in. The Spurs would need a first too but Portland might still do that deal; Lillard, C.J, LMA, Nurkic is pretty damn good core tbh.

[cd021]

A good article for discussion.

Nobody else wants the Mills contract. There are teams that would take Mills, himself, but they don't want to pay him that much.

Same with Gay. His contract salary is too high.

The Spurs shouldn't consider trading LMA unless they can get a big to replace most of what he does. Maybe somebody knows of such a player.

The Spurs are on track to have a delightful amount of cap space in the summer of '21. Cutting into that for the sake of an extension for DDR would be lunacy.

- Disagree, Mills remaining contract is actually not bad plus his shooting could help a playoff team if they had expendable salary to acquire him. Spurs wouldn't trade him however.

-Gay for a bad contract makes sense for a playoff team. He's been pretty bad but is still pretty versatile. He did get some trade interest for that reason but the Spurs asked for a too much. He is probably worth a couple of low seconds.

-Disagree, tbh. If they can get a first for him then they'd be crazy to keep him. Have Poeltl start and Eubanks, Metu, or an FA as his backup.

-DeRozan has been fantastic this season, extending him for a season or two may actually increase his trade value if they were to shop him during the 2021 trade deadline. Spurs shouldn't operate as if they are going to be some FA destination.

[spurraider21]

The Gist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rZczyhyokg

[JeffDuncan]

- Disagree, Mills remaining contract is actually not bad ...



It's a crazy contract, twice what it should be. No other team would pay Mills anywhere near that much. He is far too much of a defensive liability.



-Gay for a bad contract makes sense for a playoff team. ...



The Spurs should trade Gay's bad contract for a different bad contract? To gain what?

The Spurs would have to give up draft picks to convince another team to take that contract they gave Gay. The "too much" that the Spurs were asking was probably the value of that contract. They found that nobody wanted it. Of course.



-Disagree, tbh. If they can get a first for him then they'd be crazy to keep him. Have Poeltl start and Eubanks, Metu, or an FA as his backup.



We saw against the Nets tonight what happens to the Spurs without a capable big man. Not pretty. The Spurs should not let LMA go unless they have certainty of getting another capable big (who's much better on offense than Poeltl.)

People have an inflated view of the worth of first-round picks. They aren't really that valuable.



-DeRozan has been fantastic this season, extending him for a season or two may actually increase his trade value if they were to shop him during the 2021 trade deadline. Spurs shouldn't operate as if they are going to be some FA destination.


DDR has never been fantastic. He doesn't even try to shoot 3s, he's a poor defender, he gives points to opponents with his moronic techs, and in the closing minutes of close games his brain locks up.

Extending DDR would be horrifyingly crap cranium stupid. It's the kind of thing a senile drunk would do.

I will tell you something about free agents coming to the Spurs: they won't If. The. Spurs. Can't. Pay. Them.

[KobesAchilles]

Mills and Gay combined are $26.5M in expiring contracts. You could trade them for a less than desirable contract and make that team give you a 1st rd pick for taking on the contract. Good examples would be Al Horford and Kevin Love.
I agree with that sentiment but I don’t want any part of longer shittier contracts just for the 25th pick. I should’ve clarified that I meant trades I was ok with.
Although I would take the Cavs one in a heartbeat, I don’t think they would give away the 3rd pick in the draft just to unload Love.

[Prime BEEF]

I agree with that sentiment but I don’t want any part of longer shittier contracts just for the 25th pick. I should’ve clarified that I meant trades I was ok with.
Although I would take the Cavs one in a heartbeat, I don’t think they would give away the 3rd pick in the draft just to unload Love.
Mills/Gay for Love and swap 1st Rd Picks. That’s probably more realistic for the cavs to take it

[dbestpro]

LMA will be traded to Portland for their number one and salary fodder. We will combine our number one along with Portland to move up in the draft.

[Prime BEEF]

LMA will be traded to Portland for their number one and salary fodder. We will combine our number one along with Portland to move up in the draft.
Not sure what that trade would look like. Looks like they want to resign Whiteside this summer. You could play LMA at 4 and Whiteside at 5. That combo would fit better together that Nurkic and Whiteside.

Maybe...
Nurkic/Hood/Collins for LMA

[cd021]

Not sure what that trade would look like. Looks like they want to resign Whiteside this summer. You could play LMA at 4 and Whiteside at 5. That combo would fit better together that Nurkic and Whiteside.

Maybe...
Nurkic/Hood/Collins for LMA

When healthy Nurkic was big for them, doubt they'd choose Whiteside over Nurkic.

Ariza, Collins and Hood for Aldridge work, financially. That would probably be the framework if a deal were to happen

[BackHome]

Looking at this team I am all for trading and getting rid of everyone serious not one player has been consistent all season. We had a good run but I am all for ripping the band aid and blowing this shit up and build through the draft ie Tanking hard for two or three season.

Look at trading anyone for future draft picks I don't care if it's a late one or early or late two just start trying to get more draft picks. Need to pray like we all did when Timmy and David were coming out into the draft!

[cd021]

It's a crazy contract, twice what it should be. No other team would pay Mills anywhere near that much. He is far too much of a defensive liability.


The Spurs should trade Gay's bad contract for a different bad contract? To gain what?

The Spurs would have to give up draft picks to convince another team to take that contract they gave Gay. The "too much" that the Spurs were asking was probably the value of that contract. They found that nobody wanted it. Of course.




We saw against the Nets tonight what happens to the Spurs without a capable big man. Not pretty. The Spurs should not let LMA go unless they have certainty of getting another capable big (who's much better on offense than Poeltl.)

People have an inflated view of the worth of first-round picks. They aren't really that valuable.




DDR has never been fantastic. He doesn't even try to shoot 3s, he's a poor defender, he gives points to opponents with his moronic techs, and in the closing minutes of close games his brain locks up.

Extending DDR would be horrifyingly crap cranium stupid. It's the kind of thing a senile drunk would do.

I will tell you something about free agents coming to the Spurs: they won't If. The. Spurs. Can't. Pay. Them.

Yeah, I disagree on just about all of that.

-Trade Rudy's bad contract for another to gain second rounders. Thats what bad teams do to gain assets. There was definitely interest in Gay, its possible that they wanted a first for him, which is obviously too high.

-Mills may be slightly overpaid but certainly valuable, his shooting could definitely help a team. Moot point because the Spurs wouldn't trade him.

-The whole point of moving Aldridge and or DDR is to start a rebuild. That means getting worse. Poeltl is fine offensively, he's obviously not Aldridge but he doesn't need to be to effective. 1st's are a valuable commodity, not sure why you wouldn't value them, teams certainly do. Their essentially lottery tickets, given the spurs track record, I'd say that their more valuable to the Spurs than to an average team given that they consistently find talent in the 1st round.

-He's a bad defender and doesn't shoot 3's doesn't mean he isn't valuable. He could be better if he did those things but, as is, is still a pretty damn good offensive player. He definitely has to be better at controlling his emotions. Still, we're talking about 11 techs, and 11 points over 59 games. That's negligible.

-Technically true, I guess, but whats the point of being cap conscious if their not a destination? Significant cap space looks a helluva a lot different to a big market team than it does to San Antonio. Spurs could re-sign him and shop him at the trade deadline, not saying that he has to be a Spurs for the next three years.

[BackHome]

Yeah I think we can easily get a first for LMA and DEROZZ the only question would be would it be protected or unprotected and a old vet or a young player with potential.

As I said before we only have 2 NBA starters on our team LMA, and DEROZZ everyone else so far are bench players.

1. Walker has potential but the way he plays I am always thinking he is going to tear his knee again
2. White I thought he would be our starting PG but looking more and more like a good backup
3. Murray has been hot and cold and to me should be moved as a SG
4. Luka two years away
5. Keldon I would keep I like his toughness

[JeffDuncan]

...
-Trade Rudy's bad contract for another to gain second rounders. ...



The Spurs would have to give up draft picks to get rid of Gay's contract. Where'd you get the idea it's only the other team that would have to give draft picks? That just isn't true.


... There was definitely interest in Gay, ...



Sez who? You'll notice he didn't get traded, so the interest obviously wasn't that great. Nobody wanted that contract.



-Mills may be slightly overpaid ...



Mills is grossly overpaid. His contract is at least twice what it should be.



-The whole point of moving Aldridge and or DDR is to start a rebuild. That means getting worse. ...



So you're talking about intentionally doing things to make the Spurs worse than they are now.

Myself, I'm more interested in ways to make them better. Guess that's just me.



Poeltl is fine offensively, ...



5.3 ppg. No, he is not. Not even close. He can do a layup. He can do a little push shot/floater kind of thing sometimes. That's about it.



1st's are a valuable commodity, ...



Sort of. Not as valuable as people think.



-He's a bad defender and doesn't shoot 3's doesn't mean he isn't valuable. ...



It sure as heck hurts DDR's value. A "shooting guard" (or whatever he is now) who doesn't shoot 3s, in this era. C'mon now.

DDR will most likely pick up his team option because he'll find that nobody else will pay him nearly that much. Unless, he's disgusted enough with the Spurs he mostly just wants out. The latter could happen.



-Technically true, I guess, but whats the point of being cap conscious if their not a destination? Significant cap space looks a helluva a lot different to a big market team than it does to San Antonio. ...



Nonsense. Don't believe everything you read on ST. The reason the Spurs have trouble getting free agents is because they usually don't have the money available. And you want to make sure that continues?

So what do you want to spends the team's money on - giving Forbes the supermax?

One more time: good free agents will not come to the Spurs If. The. Team. Can't. Pay. Them.

That is true. Really. It is.

[BackHome]

No great players do not want to play for Poop.

[cd021]

The Spurs would have to give up draft picks to get rid of Gay's contract. Where'd you get the idea it's only the other team that would have to give draft picks? That just isn't true.


Sez who? You'll notice he didn't get traded, so the interest obviously wasn't that great. Nobody wanted that contract.




Mills is grossly overpaid. His contract is at least twice what it should be.


So you're talking about intentionally doing things to make the Spurs worse than they are now.

Myself, I'm more interested in ways to make them better. Guess that's just me.


5.3 ppg. No, he is not. Not even close. He can do a layup. He can do a little push shot/floater kind of thing sometimes. That's about it.


Sort of. Not as valuable as people think.




It sure as heck hurts DDR's value. A "shooting guard" (or whatever he is now) who doesn't shoot 3s, in this era. C'mon now.

DDR will most likely pick up his team option because he'll find that nobody else will pay him nearly that much. Unless, he's disgusted enough with the Spurs he mostly just wants out. The latter could happen.


Nonsense. Don't believe everything you read on ST. The reason the Spurs have trouble getting free agents is because they usually don't have the money available. And you want to make sure that continues?

So what do you want to spends the team's money on - giving Forbes the supermax?

One more time: good free agents will not come to the Spurs If. The. Team. Can't. Pay. Them.

That is true. Really. It is.

- It really isn't, if you think that's how the league work kinda naive tbh. Small markets don't generally get top tier FA's. Certainly not bad teams. The main reason why Aldridge came was because the Spurs were really good and he is from Texas.

-Where are you getting the idea of the Spurs having to give up picks to get rid of Gay??

-1sts are valuable, not necessarily to you apparently but they are valuable. If they can get a first for Aldridge or DDR, then they should jump on it. This team is going no fast. Why worry about "replacing" Aldridge when they'd essentially be subbing Aldridge out and another player into a bad situation.

Makes more sense to just tear down and rebuild, that requires be bad, acquiring high draft picks- as well as additional picks- to begin rebuilding. Spurs could still go the cap space route, though I don't expect that to yield a big FA.

[r0drig0lac]

When healthy Nurkic was big for them, doubt they'd choose Whiteside over Nurkic.

Ariza, Collins and Hood for Aldridge work, financially. That would probably be the framework if a deal were to happen

not bad imo

[cd021]

not bad imo
I would assume that a protected 1st would have to be included for it to make sense for the Spurs but Portland might still do that deal imo

[JeffDuncan]

- It really isn't, if you think that's how the league work kinda naive tbh. Small markets don't generally get top tier FA's. Certainly not bad teams. The main reason why Aldridge came was because the Spurs were really good and he is from Texas.
...



The main reason Aldridge came to the Spurs is because they found a way to pay him. I guess you weren't around then, to remember all that.

You don't recall, or don't know about, Tim Duncan taking about half the money he could have made on the open market, so the Spurs would have cap space to pay other players. You don't know about Tony and Manu also taking less, for the same reason. You don't know about the Spurs delaying Kawhi's post-rookie contract until the 2015 offseason, to have cap space as they looked for Duncan's replacement (who turned out to be Aldridge, and who the Spurs were able to sign because they were able to pay him.)

For you to pooh-pooh the idea of being able to pay players, well, it makes you appear less than bright. I think you really know better. You can't be that naive.

The money really does matter. Seriously. No foolin'.



-Where are you getting the idea of the Spurs having to give up picks to get rid of Gay?? ...



From his stinkin' contract, of course. Lol.

Gay's contract is for $14 M. How do you get another team to take him, when that team would only willingly pay him 8M or 9M? Think about it.



-1sts are valuable, ...



Not as valuable as people think.



... Why worry about "replacing" Aldridge when they'd essentially be subbing Aldridge out and another player into a bad situation.



What? You worry about replacing Aldridge so you can field a team that's not totally hopeless.

What is it you're talking about?



Makes more sense to just tear down and rebuild, that requires be bad, acquiring high draft picks- as well as additional picks- to begin rebuilding. Spurs could still go the cap space route, though I don't expect that to yield a big FA.


I will point out that the Spurs look pretty well torn down now. Out of the playoffs. How low do you want to go?

[cd021]

The main reason Aldridge came to the Spurs is because they found a way to pay him. I guess you weren't around then, to remember all that.

You don't recall, or don't know about, Tim Duncan taking about half the money he could have made on the open market, so the Spurs would have cap space to pay other players. You don't know about Tony and Manu also taking less, for the same reason. You don't know about the Spurs delaying Kawhi's post-rookie contract until the 2015 offseason, to have cap space as they looked for Duncan's replacement (who turned out to be Aldridge, and who the Spurs were able to sign because they were able to pay him.)

For you to pooh-pooh the idea of being able to pay players, well, it makes you appear less than bright. I think you really know better. You can't be that naive.

The money really does matter. Seriously. No foolin'.




From his stinkin' contract, of course. Lol.

Gay's contract is for $14 M. How do you get another team to take him, when that team would only willingly pay him 8M or 9M? Think about it.




Not as valuable as people think.




What? You worry about replacing Aldridge so you can field a team that's not totally hopeless.

What is it you're talking about?




I will point out that the Spurs look pretty well torn down now. Out of the playoffs. How low do you want to go?

-Spurs fan since 2003, I remember. Spurs had cap to sign LA but he had other options. He chose the Spurs because they were a contender.

-Re-signing DDR and keeping him, would still give the Spurs at least $40+ million in cap for 2022. I specifically said that they should re-sign him to trade him but you seemed to focus on him tying up cap space during the season, when of course, it doesn't matter if they move him before the 2021 off season.

-If Utah and New York have $50 million in cap space and are both pursuing a top free agent, Utah likely won't even get a meeting. Players pick teams as much as they pick the city and business opportunities. Thus big markets have an inherent advantage. Have you watched the last two off seasons play out?

-The whole point of re-building is to be bad and obtain high picks over the course of several seasons. Getting the 11th pick this season sure as hell doesn't cut it. Not sure why you want to reinvest in a team that is consistently been bad this season.

The bigger question is why you want to improve a team that needs to be tore down and rebuilt. Its definitely going to take more than one season to fix all of this teams issue.

-So you're speculating that teams are asking for a pick for Gay? Spurs have zero incentive to do that. They could just keep him and buy him out during next season.

-Not valuable to you but considered valuable to GMs and front offices, so pretty damn valuable.

[DPG21920]

Mills is absolutely expendable and his deal is way more than role players like him should get IMO. He’s been solid this year, but he’s not someone that should be kept if they rebuild IMO. He should have positive value for the reasons you mentioned and I wouldn’t be terribly surprised if SA moved him.

[cd021]

Mills is absolutely expendable and his deal is way more than role players like him should get IMO. He’s been solid this year, but he’s not someone that should be kept if they rebuild IMO. He should have positive value for the reasons you mentioned and I wouldn’t be terribly surprised if SA moved him.

I think he'd get some interest but I doubt the Spurs move him because of his leadership. Its not a great reason but that's probably their thinking.

[JeffDuncan]

-Spurs fan since 2003, I remember. Spurs had cap to sign LA but he had other options. He chose the Spurs because they were a contender.



It is absolutely amazing that you are so deeply in denial about the Spurs having to be able to pay Aldridge. The Spurs were able to sign Aldridge because they were able to pay him. That is a fact, no matter how much anybody tries to deny it.

For the Spurs to be able to sign free agents, they have to be able to pay said free sgents. Really. That is a fact. It is true. No amount of denial is going to change that.

One conclusion which follows, is that it isn't a good idea to throw the team's money away on trash. Such as:



-Re-signing DDR and keeping him, ...



DDR has a player option for $27.7 million next season. Have you forgotten?

He avoids 3pt shots like he's allergic to them. You'll recall.

He has other deficiencies, as well. We know.



... I specifically said that they should re-sign him to trade him ...



Resign DDR for how much, and trade him to whom? Be specific, since you mention specifics.

If you offer him less than $27.7 million next year, he will refuse it and exercise the player option. So how much do you intend to offer him?

And again, to whom do you intend to trade him?



... but you seemed to focus on him tying up cap space during the season, when of course, it doesn't matter if they move him before the 2021 off season.



I am focused on not tying up the team's money on trash, at any time.



-If Utah and New York have $50 million in cap space and are both pursuing a top free agent, Utah likely won't even get a meeting. ...



And if the Spurs have $60 million in cap space, and NY has $7 million, what then? Do tell.



-The whole point of re-building is to be bad and obtain high picks over the course of several seasons. ...


At one 1st round pick per year, filling out an NBA roster with such picks will take 15 years. This is your plan - to pursue greatness by sucking ass for 15 years?

I can't help but hope there might be better plans to ponder. Something a Spurs fan might live long enough to see, would be nice.



Getting the 11th pick this season sure as hell doesn't cut it. ...


Ok, you don't want Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Domantas Sabonis, Klay Thompson, or any other player who was drafted 11th. Noted.



Not sure why you want to reinvest in a team that is consistently been bad this season.



You're the one who wants to pay DDR the supermax.



The bigger question is why you want to improve a team that needs to be tore down and rebuilt. Its definitely going to take more than one season to fix all of this teams issue.



My idea that the team needs improvement is based on them sucking.



-So you're speculating that teams are asking for a pick for Gay? Spurs have zero incentive to do that. They could just keep him and buy him out during next season.



No, you were speculating the Spurs could receive a pick in a Gay trade. They can't. His contract is too over-priced. Any pick would have to go the other way, as an inducement.



-Not valuable to you but considered valuable to GMs and front offices, so pretty damn valuable.


First round picks aren't as valuable as people think.

[sasaint]

I think he'd get some interest but I doubt the Spurs move him because of his leadership. Its not a great reason but that's probably their thinking.

Totally agree.

[r0drig0lac]

Aldridge for Musa, Allen and Prince, Spurs receives two wings and a good young center. Bkl will be led by Irving / Durant / Daj, this will cause kids to lose space, but Spencer and Levert would never be negotiated before seeing the healthy core working. For a team that is likely to go all in, Aldridge in its version streetch4 can work(Irving / Temple / Durant / Aldridge / DAJ with Levert / Spencer and some ring hunters on the bench)

[cd021]

It is absolutely amazing that you are so deeply in denial about the Spurs having to be able to pay Aldridge. The Spurs were able to sign Aldridge because they were able to pay him. That is a fact, no matter how much anybody tries to deny it.

For the Spurs to be able to sign free agents, they have to be able to pay said free sgents. Really. That is a fact. It is true. No amount of denial is going to change that.

One conclusion which follows, is that it isn't a good idea to throw the team's money away on trash. Such as:




DDR has a player option for $27.7 million next season. Have you forgotten?

He avoids 3pt shots like he's allergic to them. You'll recall.

He has other deficiencies, as well. We know.




Resign DDR for how much, and trade him to whom? Be specific, since you mention specifics.

If you offer him less than $27.7 million next year, he will refuse it and exercise the player option. So how much do you intend to offer him?

And again, to whom do you intend to trade him?




I am focused on not tying up the team's money on trash, at any time.




And if the Spurs have $60 million in cap space, and NY has $7 million, what then? Do tell.



At one 1st round pick per year, filling out an NBA roster with such picks will take 15 years. This is your plan - to pursue greatness by sucking ass for 15 years?

I can't help but hope there might be better plans to ponder. Something a Spurs fan might live long enough to see, would be nice.



Ok, you don't want Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Domantas Sabonis, Klay Thompson, or any other player who was drafted 11th. Noted.




You're the one who wants to pay DDR the supermax.




My idea that the team needs improvement is based on them sucking.




No, you were speculating the Spurs could receive a pick in a Gay trade. They can't. His contract is too over-priced. Any pick would have to go the other way, as an inducement.




First round picks aren't as valuable as people think.

-You say that firsts aren't that valuable then bring up all of the good players taken with the 11th pick historically. :rolleyes

- Since when does "several years" mean 15 year. Point is that they need to strip the roster down, be in the lottery for 3 seasons and then try and rebuild this team into a contender.

- Derozan has a player option, I mentioned that the spurs should extend him, that means that the years are added onto his existing deal. I also mentioned Orlando in the article as a team that has had interest in him.

-I am basing the Spurs getting seconds for Gay off a report that came out before the deadline, as well as John Hollinger and Nate Duncan mentioning on their a couple of their podcasts that Gay would be a player that teams could target given his contact extending past this season.

You're speculating that the Spurs have to give a pick to get off of him. There is nothing to suggest that is even true. Worst case scenario, the Spurs can just carry him into next season and waive him if they can't trade him. No pick has to be surrendered.

-You're also keep saying that firsts aren't that valuable but don't mention why you think that, despite them clearly being valuable to teams...

-The Utah, New York scenario doesn't take into account that in the scenario that you mentioned a star player can agree to the Knicks and the team could orchestrate a sign-and trade. So basically it wouldn't matter whether Utah has the cap space or not if the player doesn't want to go there. Really that simple.

Stars can dictate where they want to go, regardless of whether the team they want has cap or not. That puts teams like the Spurs or Utah at a huge disadvantage -even if they have cap.


-Again, why improve a team that is this fatally flawed? It needs to be torn down and rebuilt.

[JeffDuncan]

-You say that firsts aren't that valuable then bring up all of the good players taken with the 11th pick historically. :rolleyes



You're the one who said the 11th pick wasn't good enough. :rolleyes

Did you change your mind?

First round picks are not as valuable as people think they are. For one thing, a first round pick is not anywhere close to being worth a proven veteran.

Which would you rather have - the 3rd pick a year from now, or Shai Gilgeous-Alexander? Myself, I'd take Alexander. Perhaps we disagree.



- Since when does "several years" mean 15 year. Point is that they need to strip the roster down, be in the lottery for 3 seasons and then try and rebuild this team into a contender.



Ah, three seasons, you think. To replace which three players on the current roster, and make the team a contender again? Any suggestions?

What's wrong with starting now to try to rebuild the team into a contender? Why wait three years before even trying? Not that you meant that, but, well.

I think there's no better time than the present.

Also, I think they need more than 3 players. They need to be looking seriously, now, to replace all the following on the roster.

Forbes (lack of defensive ability)
Belinelli (age)
DDR (lack of constructive presence)
Mills (defensive liability)
Gay (age)
LMA (age)
Metu (failure to develop into a useful player)
Eubanks (ditto)

Murray, White, Walker, Lyles, Poeltl, Johnson, Weatherspoon, and Samanic are all worth a longer look, as far as I can tell.



- Derozan has a player option, I mentioned that the spurs should extend him, that means that the years are added onto his existing deal. I also mentioned Orlando in the article as a team that has had interest in him.



DDR's existing deal is for $27.7 million per. So you want to extend him for, what, three more years at $27.7M per? To trade him. To Orlando.

Are you sure your mind hasn't floated away into the clouds? I have to tell you, that idea looks odd to me. Like, really odd.

Why can't Orlando negotiate their own deal with DDR, if they want him? Did their front office all drop dead from the Wuhan?



-I am basing the Spurs getting seconds for Gay off a report that came out before the deadline, as well as John Hollinger and Nate Duncan mentioning on their a couple of their podcasts that Gay would be a player that teams could target given his contact extending past this season.

You're speculating that the Spurs have to give a pick to get off of him. ...



That is wrong. I was telling you why the idea of getting picks for Gay is unrealistic. The reason why is basic. He is not worth $14M.

Guys on podcasts shoot the breeze about all kinds of stuff. We know that Gay did not get traded, and it's easy to see why not.




... There is nothing to suggest that is even true. ...



Gay's contract is true, and it says $14M, and he is not worth that.



-You're also keep saying that firsts aren't that valuable but don't mention why you think that, despite them clearly being valuable to teams...



I keep saying exactly what I keep saying. First round picks are not as valuable as people think they are.



-The Utah, New York scenario doesn't take into account that in the scenario that you mentioned a star player can agree to the Knicks and the team could orchestrate a sign-and trade. ...



I apparently have to remind you, the Utah-NY thing is your scenario. Not mine.

There is a good free agent available. The Spurs have $60 million in cap space. The 76ers are over the cap by $20 million. Discuss.



So basically it wouldn't matter whether Utah has the cap space or not if the player doesn't want to go there. Really that simple.



My friend, it does matter to the player who wants to make money playing basketball, whether a team can pay him. The pros play for money. That is why they are called pros. It's really that simple.

The Spurs cannot sign free agents if they do not have the money to pay those free agents. That is true, and no amount of talk is going to get around that simple fact of reality.



Stars can dictate where they want to go, regardless of whether the team they want has cap or not. ...



Your point is...?



-Again, why improve a team that is this fatally flawed? It needs to be torn down and rebuilt.

I'm still not the one who wants to give DDR a billion $ over the next 30 years. That seems to be you. The smart thing to do about DDR is to let him walk, as soon as he will. Devote the team's time and resources to other matters.

[cd021]

You're the one who said the 11th pick wasn't good enough. :rolleyes

Did you change your mind?

First round picks are not as valuable as people think they are. For one thing, a first round pick is not anywhere close to being worth a proven veteran.

Which would you rather have - the 3rd pick a year from now, or Shai Gilgeous-Alexander? Myself, I'd take Alexander. Perhaps we disagree.




Ah, three seasons, you think. To replace which three players on the current roster, and make the team a contender again? Any suggestions?

What's wrong with starting now to try to rebuild the team into a contender? Why wait three years before even trying? Not that you meant that, but, well.

I think there's no better time than the present.

Also, I think they need more than 3 players. They need to be looking seriously, now, to replace all the following on the roster.

Forbes (lack of defensive ability)
Belinelli (age)
DDR (lack of constructive presence)
Mills (defensive liability)
Gay (age)
LMA (age)
Metu (failure to develop into a useful player)
Eubanks (ditto)

Murray, White, Walker, Lyles, Poeltl, Johnson, Weatherspoon, and Samanic are all worth a longer look, as far as I can tell.




DDR's existing deal is for $27.7 million per. So you want to extend him for, what, three more years at $27.7M per? To trade him. To Orlando.

Are you sure your mind hasn't floated away into the clouds? I have to tell you, that idea looks odd to me. Like, really odd.

Why can't Orlando negotiate their own deal with DDR, if they want him? Did their front office all drop dead from the Wuhan?




That is wrong. I was telling you why the idea of getting picks for Gay is unrealistic. The reason why is basic. He is not worth $14M.

Guys on podcasts shoot the breeze about all kinds of stuff. We know that Gay did not get traded, and it's easy to see why not.




Gay's contract is true, and it says $14M, and he is not worth that.




I keep saying exactly what I keep saying. First round picks are not as valuable as people think they are.




I apparently have to remind you, the Utah-NY thing is your scenario. Not mine.

There is a good free agent available. The Spurs have $60 million in cap space. The 76ers are over the cap by $20 million. Discuss.




My friend, it does matter to the player who wants to make money playing basketball, whether a team can pay him. The pros play for money. That is why they are called pros. It's really that simple.

The Spurs cannot sign free agents if they do not have the money to pay those free agents. That is true, and no amount of talk is going to get around that simple fact of reality.




Your point is...?



I'm still not the one who wants to give DDR a billion $ over the next 30 years. That seems to be you. The smart thing to do about DDR is to let him walk, as soon as he will. Devote the team's time and resources to other matters.

-The 11th pick is not good enough to rebuild around, the Spurs need to tear down and rebuild over the next three seasons.

-The Utah-NY was my scenario but you tweaked it, re-read you post :lol

-If you read the article, I suggested that an extension was possible. I never said a three year extension and I never said that they should.

-The point of getting high draft picks is to build around them. Murray, Poeltl, Walker, KJ, Samanic, and possibly White could also be apart of the next good team.

-Again, your speculating. Duncan and Hollinger are actually plugged into the league. Hell, Hollinger worked with the Grizzlies for the better part of a decade. He also pretty much invented advanced stats in the NBA. I'd trust them over you tbh.

-This is getting increasingly silly. I flat-out disagree with you, you disagree with me. Whatever, it is what it is. We're clearly not going to convince each other of anything. I won't be responding anymore.

[JeffDuncan]

-The 11th pick is not good enough to rebuild around, the Spurs need to tear down and rebuild over the next three seasons.



Okay, which pick is good enough to rebuild around? And how do you know in advance?



-The Utah-NY was my scenario but you tweaked it, re-read you post :lol



I didn't tweak your scenario. :lol Go back and read what I wrote. I offered a different scenario which you refused to address.



-The point of getting high draft picks is to build around them. Murray, Poeltl, Walker, KJ, Samanic, and possibly White could also be apart of the next good team.



Yeah, one hopes draft picks might become NBA players. And?



-Again, your speculating. ...



It is not speculation that Gay's contract says $14 M. It's a judgment call whether he's worth that, but I say no, and the fact that he didn't get traded implies no.


...
Duncan and Hollinger are actually plugged into the league. Hell, Hollinger worked with the Grizzlies for the better part of a decade. He also pretty much invented advanced stats in the NBA. I'd trust them over you tbh.



Okay, so where's that big midseason Rudy Gay trade, that was supposed to fetch a draft pick?

Didn't happen.



-This is getting increasingly silly. I flat-out disagree with you, you disagree with me. Whatever, it is what it is. We're clearly not going to convince each other of anything. I won't be responding anymore.

It certainly is silly to persist in denial that professional ball players play for money. If the Spurs are going to sign free agents, they have to have the money available. It's true. Why on earth evade that point?

The Spurs have been so tight on cap space - with this losing team - that in trying to work a deal for a mid-tier free agent, Morris, they lost Bertans last summer. The money really does matter. Why not simply admit it?

It's in fashion on this forum for people to whine and cry about how nobody likes San Antonio, and no free agents will come here, boo-hoo, poor us, but it might be a factor whether the Spurs are able to pay them.