The effects of the coronavirus should make us rethink these institutions, especially defense spending.

[midnightpulp]

I think it goes without saying that the economic fallout from the virus is illustrating how important social safety nets are (and how useless privatized healthcare is at dealing with crisis), as politicians scramble to find trillions in order to prop up the economy. But what if we already had a healthy reserve of multiple trillions as a kind of defacto national "rainy day" fund to deal with unforeseen recessions and depressions?

The total cost of the Iraq and Afghan wars was 5.9 trillion. The former war was completely unjustified, while the length of the latter was completely unjustified. If we started this rainy day fund in 2000, we might've been able to better cushion ourselves against the 2008 crisis and/or have a couple extras trillion lying around to use as stimulus. In any event, the real crux of the problem is how much we spend yearly on defense relative to our GDP vs. other developed countries. Defense spending is 3.2 percent of our 20 trillion dollar GDP, which amounts to about 700 billion per year. If we cut that down to 2 percent, which is in the range of our allies, that frees up an extra 300 billion per year. If this was a program that had gone into effect after the 2008 crisis, we'd have around an extra 2 trillion in reserves, possibly more if those trillions were invested in some fashion (maybe in gold).

To touch on few other things. Stock buy backs should be illegal, as they were pre-Reagan. Many of these multibillion dollar corporations, who totally achieved what they did through hard work and bootstrap individualism, used their tax cuts to buy back stock (and not create jobs) and ride the bull market to more profits their workers will never see. Now that the market is imploding, they're asking for multibillion dollar handouts. We're essentially bailing out gambling addicts. How many conservatives would cry foul if they knew people who receive welfare are taking it to the casino? Same exact thing.

I can hear the conservative rebuttal to this idea in the form of, "It's up to you to save your money, not the government. Why should MY TAXES go into a collective rainy day fund when I'm PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE enough to save my money for situations like this." Well, proof is in the pudding. You can choose to remain self-righteous about how responsible you are or face the fact that many small businesses are getting/going to get hammered, because small business owners don't always necessarily have the luxury of "saving," when they need all the capital they can in order to keep the doors open. Low wage workers are in a similar boat as small business owners. Paycheck-to-paycheck existence that doesn't allow them the same financial latitude.

To echo my first point, if this crisis doesn't wake up stubborn conservatives to the importance of social safety nets (which, under my idea, won't call for new taxes), I don't know what will.

[Winehole23]

$5.9 Trillion, and nobody asked how we would pay for it -- hell, Bush passed a tax cut on top and Obama extended it.

[TheGreatYacht]

But conservatives and Trump supporters only want socialism for billionaires and corporations. Tax cuts for the rich only.

[apalisoc_9]

America would be risking its hold of global dominance if they're to do that.

I think we all know what matters more for them judging by the spending etc

[SpursforSix]

To touch on few other things. Stock buy backs should be illegal, as they were pre-Reagan. Many of these multibillion dollar corporations, who totally achieved what they did through hard work and bootstrap individualism, used their tax cuts to buy back stock (and not create jobs) and ride the bull market to more profits their workers will never see. Now that the market is imploding, they're asking for multibillion dollar handouts. We're essentially bailing out gambling addicts. How many conservatives would cry foul if they knew people who receive welfare are taking it to the casino? Same exact thing.



I disagree that it's bailing out gambling addicts. The ones at the top are going to eventually profit from this whole debacle. In fact, I'd be surprised if they're not already hedged and either 1) substantially mitigated their losses or 2) actually made some profit. These people have access to the best data, analysts, systems, etc. At the end of the day, they'll have the same amount of shares (or more) as well as made money through market shorts or puts on stocks/indexes. All they have to do is wait it out.

[Thread]

I disagree that it's bailing out gambling addicts. The ones at the top are going to eventually profit from this whole debacle. In fact, I'd be surprised if they're not already hedged and either 1) substantially mitigated their losses or 2) actually made some profit. These people have access to the best data, analysts, systems, etc. At the end of the day, they'll have the same amount of shares (or more) as well as made money through market shorts or puts on stocks/indexes. All they have to do is wait it out.

Yes, and each with a portion of the $60 billion in hand can now (((((((((relax))))))))) while they (wait it out). It ain't no fun worrying while waiting. It's almost fun, it is fun when you have (money from home) while you're waiting.

[Thread]

America would be risking its hold of global dominance if they're to do that.

I think we all know what matters more for them judging by the spending etc

According to CNN/MSM we've been risking that hold since 20 January 2017.

[SpursforSix]

Yes, and each with a portion of the $60 billion in hand can now (((((((((relax))))))))) while they (wait it out). It ain't no fun worrying while waiting. It's almost fun, it is fun when you have (money from home) while you're waiting.

Yep. Just more concentration of wealth. Will be devastating to those trying to retire while the 1% will use the opportunity to accumulate more shares sold out of panic and/or necessity.

[Thread]

Yep. Just more concentration of wealth. Will be devastating to those trying to retire while the 1% will use the opportunity to accumulate more shares sold out of panic and/or necessity.

...yes, and that is where meaness is manifested & tragically shown. They will not be told (no). "I'm taking the hand out, using it, yes, for the common good, gd it, but, I'm also salting (a portion) with my/our the other salted accounts."

[Nbadan]

It's gonna be devestating for the middle class...businesses can cut losses for a few months but eventually they are gonna downsize...we are all gonna have to settle for the new reality...lower wages, less credit, much higher unemployment and little to no equity for most...all that is gonna vanish...cash will be king

[Thread]

It's gonna be devestating for the middle class...businesses can cut losses for a few months but eventually they are gonna downsize...we are all gonna have to settle for the new reality...lower wages, less credit, much higher unemployment and little to no equity for most...all that is gonna vanish...cash will be king

Yes, but, you can't spy (eventually)...concentrate with all your might & power on "a few months" while you keep Americans whole & hunt Corona. Hunt with everything you've got, like He hunted the Stock Market with everything he had.

He took pride in the hunt of the DOW. Boundless pride & joy. Turn that pride & joy onto the hunt of Corona. He did it one way. Now, this is the only way.

[RandomGuy]

I think it goes without saying that the economic fallout from the virus is illustrating how important social safety nets are (and how useless privatized healthcare is at dealing with crisis), as politicians scramble to find trillions in order to prop up the economy. But what if we already had a healthy reserve of multiple trillions as a kind of defacto national "rainy day" fund to deal with unforeseen recessions and depressions?

The total cost of the Iraq and Afghan wars was 5.9 trillion. The former war was completely unjustified, while the length of the latter was completely unjustified. If we started this rainy day fund in 2000, we might've been able to better cushion ourselves against the 2008 crisis and/or have a couple extras trillion lying around to use as stimulus. In any event, the real crux of the problem is how much we spend yearly on defense relative to our GDP vs. other developed countries. Defense spending is 3.2 percent of our 20 trillion dollar GDP, which amounts to about 700 billion per year. If we cut that down to 2 percent, which is in the range of our allies, that frees up an extra 300 billion per year. If this was a program that had gone into effect after the 2008 crisis, we'd have around an extra 2 trillion in reserves, possibly more if those trillions were invested in some fashion (maybe in gold).

To touch on few other things. Stock buy backs should be illegal, as they were pre-Reagan. Many of these multibillion dollar corporations, who totally achieved what they did through hard work and bootstrap individualism, used their tax cuts to buy back stock (and not create jobs) and ride the bull market to more profits their workers will never see. Now that the market is imploding, they're asking for multibillion dollar handouts. We're essentially bailing out gambling addicts. How many conservatives would cry foul if they knew people who receive welfare are taking it to the casino? Same exact thing.

I can hear the conservative rebuttal to this idea in the form of, "It's up to you to save your money, not the government. Why should MY TAXES go into a collective rainy day fund when I'm PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE enough to save my money for situations like this." Well, proof is in the pudding. You can choose to remain self-righteous about how responsible you are or face the fact that many small businesses are getting/going to get hammered, because small business owners don't always necessarily have the luxury of "saving," when they need all the capital they can in order to keep the doors open. Low wage workers are in a similar boat as small business owners. Paycheck-to-paycheck existence that doesn't allow them the same financial latitude.

To echo my first point, if this crisis doesn't wake up stubborn conservatives to the importance of social safety nets (which, under my idea, won't call for new taxes), I don't know what will.

This whole episode is going to expose the seedy underbelly of our late-stage capitalist system.

Those companies have done nothing but enrich the management of those companies.

If you want stock buy backs ever again, no bail outs. If you take the taxpayers money... you don't get to do that shit ever again.

[Thread]

This whole episode is going to expose the seedy underbelly of our late-stage capitalist system.

Those companies have done nothing but enrich the management of those companies.

If you want stock buy backs ever again, no bail outs. If you take the taxpayers money... you don't get to do that shit ever again.

Bend over, RG. I'll show you a fuckin' seedy underbelly.

[ElNono]

It's not capitalism that's a problem. It's neo-capitalism, where money is put on a pedestal, way above country.

I get so tired of hearing these oligarchs (you know who they are, and that includes members of Congress) fill their mouths about America the great! exceptionalism! patriotism!, but they're first in line to park their earnings overseas and fuck needy Americans in the process, purchase politicos to fuck all of us so they can make an extra buck, continue to peddle shit like trickle down while they're the only few racking it up, etc.

When shit really hits the fan, none of these guys show up to lend a hand. They're first in line to get the best treatment and take care of their own. They conveniently develop bone spurs... disgusting.

It's the hard working American that goes out there and gets the job done. The soldier that, sadly, once retired ends up living on foodstamps. The teacher that has to stick around and save the kids because there's a monster shooting people up. The PA that has to pretend to be a doctor and go out there and take care of the sick,t a great personal risk.

There's a lot of rethinking to do alright. There's nothing good about a crisis like this, but it's always a good reminder we're all in this together, and we're much stronger that way.

[boutons_deux]

America would be risking its hold of global dominance if they're to do that.

I think we all know what matters more for them judging by the spending etc

Look at Trash's budgets, every year

"as promised on his campaign", :lol cuts to Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, etc, etc, and $10Bs more for the MIC

[boutons_deux]

Citizens "rethinking these institutions" is irrelevant.

Citizens are disenfranchised effectively by the BigDollar corruption rampant in the political class.

Politicians do what BigDollar pays them to do, or not do.

Citizens' "re-thinking" preferences are ignored.

The FFs, for all their now-horrible faults, knew that a mortal threat to their new Republic would come from the business sector.

The bogus "Boston tea party" was white guys dressed up as red guys throwing tea overboard that belonged to monopolist East India Company, granted a monopoly on colonial tea sales by the British govt aka corrupt Parliament+King George.

[midnightpulp]

It's not capitalism that's a problem. It's neo-capitalism, where money is put on a pedestal, way above country.

I get so tired of hearing these oligarchs (you know who they are, and that includes members of Congress) fill their mouths about America the great! exceptionalism! patriotism!, but they're first in line to park their earnings overseas and fuck needy Americans in the process, purchase politicos to fuck all of us so they can make an extra buck, continue to peddle shit like trickle down while they're the only few racking it up, etc.

When shit really hits the fan, none of these guys show up to lend a hand. They're first in line to get the best treatment and take care of their own. They conveniently develop bone spurs... disgusting.

It's the hard working American that goes out there and gets the job done. The soldier that, sadly, once retired ends up living on foodstamps. The teacher that has to stick around and save the kids because there's a monster shooting people up. The PA that has to pretend to be a doctor and go out there and take care of the sick,t a great personal risk.

There's a lot of rethinking to do alright. There's nothing good about a crisis like this, but it's always a good reminder we're all in this together, and we're much stronger that way.

Agree with that. I think the best model is capitalism to generate the wealth and then taxation to redistribute it, as has pretty much been the case throughout the West's modern history. To beat a dead horse, our problem is we don't tax those oligarchs enough because we collectively still believe in the "job creator" and "bootstraps" myth for some reason.

When shit really starts hitting the fan, I hope we as a people start calling out the billionaire and hundred millionaire class to start cutting 10 and 9 figure checks, and if they don't, take them to task through boycotts. I'm sure you know about NBA players like Giannis and Kevin Love donating 100K to help arena workers? Many owners still haven't stepped up. Wes Edens did, but only matched Giannis's contribution. I found that rather insulting. He's worth fuckin' 2.9 billion. Let's put his "generosity" into context. He donated .000034 of his net wealth to the cause. That's like someone worth 500,000, which is probably what your average upper-middle class family has in total assets (house, cars, savings, etc), donating 17.00 :lol.

[Fabbs]

Yes, and each with a portion of the $60 billion in hand can now (((((((((relax))))))))) while they (wait it out). It ain't no fun worrying while waiting. It's almost fun, it is fun when you have (money from home) while you're waiting.
Dale I don't want to derail the conversation but were you able to put away a reasonable supply of coffee?
Enjoying a cup as we speak?
I'm a-brewin.

[DMC]

If I see two checks for 2K each, it's all going into the stock market. House money.

[DMC]

It's not capitalism that's a problem. It's neo-capitalism, where money is put on a pedestal, way above country.

I get so tired of hearing these oligarchs (you know who they are, and that includes members of Congress) fill their mouths about America the great! exceptionalism! patriotism!, but they're first in line to park their earnings overseas and fuck needy Americans in the process, purchase politicos to fuck all of us so they can make an extra buck, continue to peddle shit like trickle down while they're the only few racking it up, etc.

When shit really hits the fan, none of these guys show up to lend a hand. They're first in line to get the best treatment and take care of their own. They conveniently develop bone spurs... disgusting.

It's the hard working American that goes out there and gets the job done. The soldier that, sadly, once retired ends up living on foodstamps. The teacher that has to stick around and save the kids because there's a monster shooting people up. The PA that has to pretend to be a doctor and go out there and take care of the sick,t a great personal risk.

There's a lot of rethinking to do alright. There's nothing good about a crisis like this, but it's always a good reminder we're all in this together, and we're much stronger that way.

These same Americans hoard from each other, content that their irrational fear is salved by the 400 rolls of toilet paper and 200 bottles of hand sanitizer even if it means many other people will do without. It's a national trademark to be greedy.

[Thread]

Dale I don't want to derail the conversation but were you able to put away a reasonable supply of coffee?
Enjoying a cup as we speak?
I'm a-brewin.

Yeah, I have a decent supply. I still haven't had my first cup yet this morning and am looking forward to it, Fabbs.

[DMC]

Yeah, I have a decent supply. I still haven't had my first cup yet this morning and am looking forward to it, Fabbs.

Bend over, I'll put some Folgers in your fuckin' cup.

[Thread]

These same Americans hoard from each other, content that their irrational fear is salved by the 400 rolls of toilet paper and 200 bottles of hand sanitizer even if it means many other people will do without. It's a national trademark to be greedy.

Grim, but, true.

[ElNono]

These same Americans hoard from each other, content that their irrational fear is salved by the 400 rolls of toilet paper and 200 bottles of hand sanitizer even if it means many other people will do without. It's a national trademark to be greedy.

Certainly discouraging, and part of the problem is to chalk it up to "well, everyone does it". Like I said, lots of rethinking to do.

[baseline bum]

It's almost as if everyone acting in his own self interest doesn't lead to optimal outcomes.

[DMC]

Certainly discouraging, and part of the problem is to chalk it up to "well, everyone does it". Like I said, lots of rethinking to do.

Yeah well that's part of the problem I think, you can rethink as an individual all you want but until you get consensus you're just going to be doing a lot of rethinking. Everyone else is going to be hoarding shit. I mean you almost have to call a country fucked and unfuckable if their entertainment includes watching shows of people who can't live in a 2000 square foot home alone because they have hoarded so much shit you can't walk through it or watching a program about 600-lb fat folks who can't stop eating and their live in caretakers who keep shoveling food in their fucking mouth like a freight train running on coal.

[DMC]

It's almost as if everyone acting in his own self interest doesn't lead to optimal outcomes.

Well eventually we all regress to animals when the shit hits the fan. Like they say even the best laid plan goes to shit as soon as the first shot is fired.

Sometimes you wonder if we should just let shit like this run its course and thin the herd out a little bit. Yeah we could be part of that.

[Thread]

Yeah well that's part of the problem I think, you can rethink as an individual all you want but until you get consensus you're just going to be doing a lot of rethinking. Everyone else is going to be hoarding shit. I mean you almost have to call a country fucked and unfuckable if their entertainment includes watching shows of people who can't live in a 2000 square foot home alone because they have hoarded so much shit you can't walk through it or watching a program about 600-lb fat folks who can't stop eating and their live in caretakers who keep shoveling food in their fucking mouth like a freight train running on coal.

Grim business.

[Thread]

Well eventually we all regress to animals when the shit hits the fan. Like they say even the best laid plan goes to shit as soon as the first shot is fired.

Sometimes you wonder if we should just let shit like this run its course and thin the herd out a little bit. Yeah we could be part of that.


Wal-Mart have commandeered their (toilet paper) & are doling it 1 package to a shopper.

I quit wiping my ass last Friday. I reserved our 17 rolls for Girl's precious ass & puss.

I remember back to my youth when women didn't even wipe their pussy. Just urinated, got up & left.

[ElNono]

Yeah well that's part of the problem I think, you can rethink as an individual all you want but until you get consensus you're just going to be doing a lot of rethinking. Everyone else is going to be hoarding shit. I mean you almost have to call a country fucked and unfuckable if their entertainment includes watching shows of people who can't live in a 2000 square foot home alone because they have hoarded so much shit you can't walk through it or watching a program about 600-lb fat folks who can't stop eating and their live in caretakers who keep shoveling food in their fucking mouth like a freight train running on coal.

As unfortunate as it is, times of crisis are a great catalyst for learning lessons and, hopefully, cultural changes. Perhaps I'm overly optimistic, but historical, cathartic moments do tend to get people out of their comfort zone and pampered realities that, among other things, lead to shitty and attention whoring shows like you mention.

That's not to say that there isn't an ignoramus fringe that will be oblivious to it all, as they normally are, but as long as we can keep them in a minority, things will hopefully work out. If anything, this type of event is pure science getting in our faces, and forcefully explaining the perils of ignoring it.

[Splits]

Wal-Mart have commandeered their (toilet paper) & are doling it 1 package to a shopper.

I quit wiping my ass last Friday. I reserved our 17 rolls for Girl's precious ass & puss.

I remember back to my youth when women didn't even wipe their pussy. Just urinated, got up & left.

Most did. Just not the slobs you were able to pull

[RandomGuy]

Most did. Just not the slobs you were able to pull

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MNluk-dQLeU/UyklUZ1Cy8I/AAAAAAAACQs/0Xjsk0jctGU/s1600/oooo+ouch.gif

[RandomGuy]

It's not capitalism that's a problem. It's neo-capitalism, where money is put on a pedestal, way above country.

I get so tired of hearing these oligarchs (you know who they are, and that includes members of Congress) fill their mouths about America the great! exceptionalism! patriotism!, but they're first in line to park their earnings overseas and fuck needy Americans in the process, purchase politicos to fuck all of us so they can make an extra buck, continue to peddle shit like trickle down while they're the only few racking it up, etc.

When shit really hits the fan, none of these guys show up to lend a hand. They're first in line to get the best treatment and take care of their own. They conveniently develop bone spurs... disgusting.

It's the hard working American that goes out there and gets the job done. The soldier that, sadly, once retired ends up living on foodstamps. The teacher that has to stick around and save the kids because there's a monster shooting people up. The PA that has to pretend to be a doctor and go out there and take care of the sick,t a great personal risk.

There's a lot of rethinking to do alright. There's nothing good about a crisis like this, but it's always a good reminder we're all in this together, and we're much stronger that way.

I think so. If this gets as bad as they are whispering it will.

Just like the Senate Intel committee chairman who told his rich donors about how bad its going to get, Mnuchin is warning of double digit unemployment.

Those that know, know how bad it is going to get. They won't admit as much in public for fear of offending Dear Leader, making dealing with problems all the worse.

Out of that failure, we will have an oppotunity to re-think our national priorities. Hopefully destroying the Trump party as a national force in the process. For all the Democrats failings, Republicans are vastly worse at governing.

Hopefully we will see an extra, moderate political party form. Both parties need a little nudge to shape up, IMO.

[Thread]

Most did. Just not the slobs you were able to pull

I didn't pull, I peeked. We used to go camping when I was kid. I was in the crapper one day when a female entered the other side. The shared wooden wall immediately showed 2 lines of light toward the floor. I spent all my time in & around that crapper.

[Splits]

I didn't pull, I peeked. We used to go camping when I was kid. I was in the crapper one day when a female entered the other side. The shared wooden wall immediately showed 2 lines of light toward the floor. I spent all my time in & around that crapper.

and now you enjoy dem french fried potatars, mhh hmm

[Thread]

and now you enjoy dem french fried potatars, mhh hmm

I ain't ever forgot it & will take that Summer to the grave. The kicker? I was 12 & hadn't even started whackin' off!

[Spurtacular]

If I see two checks for 2K each, it's all going into the stock market. House money.

500 each what I heard. Congrats on your pittance.

[Splits]

1240746141236359168

[midnightpulp]

1240746141236359168

But he somehow bootstrapped that or whatever.

[Spurminator]

1240746141236359168

Put his ass in prison.

[Winehole23]

It's almost as if everyone acting in his own self interest doesn't lead to optimal outcomes.the hidden hand was trusted to do the greatest good for the greatest number, not to rob us in our adversity.

[midnightpulp]

It's almost as if everyone acting in his own self interest doesn't lead to optimal outcomes.

Yep. And it never has. Even evolutionary scientists are discovering that prehistoric man was much more cooperative than previously thought, when prevailing thought was they were constantly crushing each other skulls in a battle for resources.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/humans-brain-power-origins/

I think the misconstruing of Darwinism in the early-20th century had a lot to do with framing life as some "brutish and short existence" where the strong win. "Survival of the fittest" is bullshit. Darwin never said such and that's not how evolution works.

[baseline bum]

1240804109193809921

[ElNono]

1240746141236359168


1240804109193809921

Loud and clear what they're really thinking about...