Stimulus & Bailout Watch Thread

[Trill Clinton]

1239986801961508864

I'll take a stimulus with a side of reparations https://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/feedme.png

[Trill Clinton]

1240132812860272644

1240132815745843200

1240132818451279875

[Trill Clinton]

1240285376008290304

[Winehole23]

UBI, employment insurance, moratorium on mortgage/rental payments, moratoriums on evictions, tax foreclosure and energy cutoffs.

Free testing for anyone who needs it; 100% paid coverage COVID-19 treatment.

[Winehole23]

Claw back last year's tax cut.

No corporate bailouts without a public equity stake.

[vy65]

UBI, employment insurance, moratorium on mortgage/rental payments, moratoriums on evictions, tax foreclosure and energy cutoffs.

Free testing for anyone who needs it; 100% paid coverage COVID-19 treatment.

Agreed. I figure there'll be a cap on UBI. I haven't seem anything on whether there'll be a cap on mortgage moratorium. Have you?

[boutons_deux]

support to citizens will run up the debt, esp if income taxes are seriously cut, even for one year

If Biden wins, Dems take both houses, the Repugs/oligarchy will be screaming every day to cut Medicare, Medicaid, SS, SNAP, unemployment, disability, while screaming also about increasing the MIC towards $1T/year

[Will Hunting]

They should show some responsibility on UBI rather than just give money to everyone, need to means test it. I’m actually saving money right now working from home and not commuting or eating at restaurants. Giving me free money in addition to what I already make would be dumb.

[baseline bum]

They should show some responsibility on UBI rather than just give money to everyone, need to means test it. I’m actually saving money right now working from home and not commuting or eating at restaurants. Giving me free money in addition to what I already make would be dumb.

The Sherrod Brown & Cory Booker $4500 a person paid up front plan is complete lunacy.

[Will Hunting]

The Sherrod Brown & Cory Booker $4500 a person paid up front plan is complete lunacy.
I’ll happily take it though :lol, just think any plan giving someone like me free money is stupid.

[vy65]

They should show some responsibility on UBI rather than just give money to everyone, need to means test it. I’m actually saving money right now working from home and not commuting or eating at restaurants. Giving me free money in addition to what I already make would be dumb.

What's crazier is if there are no caps on mortgage moratoriums.

[Thread]

"Watch Thread"

Why?

[Thread]

The Sherrod Brown & Cory Booker $4500 a person paid up front plan is complete lunacy.

Though sending 50billion to the airlines is okay? Those airlines have been raking it in with both hands for over 10 years of a bull market. Where is all that profit? Use it now to keep your company, employees included, whole.

Not a bailout dime until they open the books and we see. NOT A FUCKIN' DIME.

[Thread]

support to citizens will run up the debt, esp if income taxes are seriously cut, even for one year

If Biden wins, Dems take both houses, the Repugs/oligarchy will be screaming every day to cut Medicare, Medicaid, SS, SNAP, unemployment, disability, while screaming also about increasing the MIC towards $1T/year

Dude, "the debt" is going to skyrocket, no matter what...no-matter-what. & that's fine as long as (Joe Public) is kept whole during this crisis.

[baseline bum]

Though sending 50billion to the airlines is okay? Those airlines have been raking it in with both hands for over 10 years of a bull market. Where is all that profit? Use it now to keep your company, employees included, whole.

Not a bailout dime until they open the books and we see. NOT A FUCKIN' DIME.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGKR1Z1lRik

[Spurminator]

They should show some responsibility on UBI rather than just give money to everyone, need to means test it. I’m actually saving money right now working from home and not commuting or eating at restaurants. Giving me free money in addition to what I already make would be dumb.

I honestly don't care if there's a cap or not. Seems like setting a cap just opens up more political arguments that delay the whole thing. Top priority is getting money back into people's hands ASAP. The rich can be encouraged to donate their share and decide for themselves.

[midnightpulp]

Though sending 50billion to the airlines is okay? Those airlines have been raking it in with both hands for over 10 years of a bull market. Where is all that profit? Use it now to keep your company, employees included, whole.

Not a bailout dime until they open the books and we see. NOT A FUCKIN' DIME.

Cub

[midnightpulp]

Though sending 50billion to the airlines is okay? Those airlines have been raking it in with both hands for over 10 years of a bull market. Where is all that profit? Use it now to keep your company, employees included, whole.

Not a bailout dime until they open the books and we see. NOT A FUCKIN' DIME.

Oh, and what these assholes do with profit is not fortify the average Joe on the line, but buyback their own stock, which inflates their value. CEO and executive benefits, not average Joe. But those buybacks have bit them in the ass right now, thus why they're asking for the 60 billion.

[SpursforSix]

1239986801961508864

I'll take a stimulus with a side of reparations https://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/feedme.png

Bend over, I'll fucking give you a stimulus.

[Thread]

Oh, and what these assholes do with profit is not fortify the average Joe on the line, but buyback their own stock, which inflates their value. CEO and executive benefits, not average Joe. But those buybacks have bit them in the ass right now, thus why they're asking for the 60 billion.

& we're going to give it to 'em...with a stern caveat from Warren:::"I'm going to watch them real close this time."

Fuck us.

[DMC]

They should show some responsibility on UBI rather than just give money to everyone, need to means test it. I’m actually saving money right now working from home and not commuting or eating at restaurants. Giving me free money in addition to what I already make would be dumb.

Agreed, send that shit to me. I might need to hire Vy65 and he ain't at Dollar Tree.

[DMC]

"Watch Thread"

Why?

Bend over, I'll get my stimulus then bailout, then watch Thread.

[vy65]

Agreed, send that shit to me. I might need to hire Vy65 and he ain't at Dollar Tree.

Sending over my engagement letter as we speak ...

[Trill Clinton]

"Watch Thread"

Why?

why not?

[Nbadan]

If you just stimulate people, they will stimulate the economy and there is no need for long-term corporate handouts..that's just robbery..no mortgage payments for at least 3 months, UBI of $3k for every adult and another $1k per child born within 9 months of passage of the bill...free mass mobile testing...free healthcare if you catch the virus...

...pass those and stock market booms tomorrow

[SnakeBoy]

UBI, employment insurance, moratorium on mortgage/rental payments, moratoriums on evictions, tax foreclosure and energy cutoffs.

Free testing for anyone who needs it; 100% paid coverage COVID-19 treatment.


Claw back last year's tax cut.

No corporate bailouts without a public equity stake.

Sorry bout Bernie

[spurraider21]

:lol

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[baseline bum]

:lol

1240227439923490816


:lol

[Winehole23]

Sorry bout BernieYou are not, go away with yourself, silly man!

[ElNono]

1239986801961508864

I'll take a stimulus with a side of reparations https://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/feedme.png

Damn, Trill be like...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2B6AVbdmT0

[ElNono]

:lol

1240227439923490816

:lol

[SnakeBoy]

You are not, go away with yourself, silly man!

No I'm serious. I might have crossed over for Bernie.

[Winehole23]

No I'm serious. I might have crossed over for Bernie.
WILLING SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF


...do go on

[RandomGuy]

Boeing is asking for $60bn...

[RandomGuy]

No I'm serious. I might have crossed over for Bernie.

That train has sailed.

Our choices are between two mentally deteriorating septuagenarians. Yay. Makes the VP pick a lot more important. :lol President Pence... (gagging sounds)

[RandomGuy]

They should show some responsibility on UBI rather than just give money to everyone, need to means test it. I’m actually saving money right now working from home and not commuting or eating at restaurants. Giving me free money in addition to what I already make would be dumb.

Eyup. Give it to the millions that will be out of work.

[Spurs Homer]

The Sherrod Brown & Cory Booker $4500 a person paid up front plan is complete lunacy.


trillion dollar tax cuts for the rich was lunacy-

but people are conditioned to just shrug when that happens

[baseline bum]

Eyup. Give it to the millions that will be out of work.

What about people at work but on reduced hours from cratered demand? Or small business owners who are seeing no customers? They have to eat too. Subsistence level UBI is a good idea because it's survival for the most vulnerable and stimulus money for everyone else.

[Xevious]

Though sending 50billion to the airlines is okay? Those airlines have been raking it in with both hands for over 10 years of a bull market. Where is all that profit? Use it now to keep your company, employees included, whole.

Not a bailout dime until they open the books and we see. NOT A FUCKIN' DIME.

[Winehole23]

$500B corporate slush fund administered by Mnuchin, but means testing financial aid for the poor and middle class?

Weak.

Also, sounds about right for Trumplandia.

[CosmicCowboy]

These are scary times. The economy is coming unwound. Normal commerce is slowing to a crawl, companies aren't paying their bill's which cascades down to their suppliers and their employees. Playing the blame game at this point is stupid. We are all going to get this shit eventually. Massive federal stimulus is required. Wasting time to make sure its zo restricted that "someone" might benefit that didn't need it as much as another is stupid. It's all interconnected.

[Winehole23]

These are scary times. The economy is coming unwound. Normal commerce is slowing to a crawl, companies aren't paying their Bill's which cash adds down to their suppliers and their employees. Playing the blame game at this point is stupid. We are all going to get this shit eventually.The US Congress needs to get off its duff and help people out. No time to waste, tbh.

The US Government has the power and resources to do much good. If it fails to use the power and resources, or uses them corruptly, it deserves the flames, now as much as ever.

You call it the blame game, I call it political responsibilty and truth to power.

It's understandable you'd want a get out of jail free card for Trump given how badly he's botched it so far.

[CosmicCowboy]

Fannie and Freddie need to do mortgage deferrals right now. Not forgiveness, deferrals. Skip three months and roll it to the back of the loan with no interest penalty or credit rating hit. If the economy in still fucked in three months roll it again. This shit wont get back to normal until there is a vaccine.

[Winehole23]

Fannie and Freddie need to do mortgage deferrals right now. Not forgiveness, deferrals. Skip three months and roll it to the back of the loan with no interest penalty or credit rating hit. If the economy in still fucked in three months roll it again. This shit wont get back to normal until there is a vaccine.How to you feel about moratoriums on rent?

[CosmicCowboy]

How to you feel about moratoriums on rent?

I'm fine with that as long as landlords are reimbursed. You cant roll rent to the back like you can with a mortgage.

[Winehole23]

I'm fine with that as long as landlords are reimbursed. You cant roll rent to the back like you can with a mortgage.

Plebes need to tighten their belts to share the pain and sacrifice, but it is imperative that the USG move heaven and earth to keep landlords whole.

[Winehole23]

Like the last depression, the federal bailout is donor facing.

Gold-plated bailouts for landlords and mega-corporations, desultory one time checks for ordinary voters, and little to nothing for small businesses.

[Winehole23]

Senate cloture vote moves to 6pm ET. He doesn't have the votes yet.

[CosmicCowboy]

Like the last depression, the federal bailout is donor facing.

Gold-plated bailouts for landlords and mega-corporations, desultory one time checks for ordinary voters, and little to nothing for small businesses.

Wasn't there 350 billion in forgiveable small business loans if they keep full employment?

[Winehole23]

Wasn't there 350 billion in forgiveable small business loans if they keep full employment?We'll see what passes. If the hospitality industry gets more than small businesses that's a travesty.

[Winehole23]

I don't see why it would be desirable that $450B of the $500B in Mnuchin's bailout fund would be disclosure-free.

How is that diffefent from a slush fund? What would prevent DJT from dipping in?

[Winehole23]

Fed's Bullard says US unemployment could reach 30% and GDP drop 50% in Q2.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-22/fed-s-bullard-says-u-s-jobless-rate-may-soar-to-30-in-2q?srnd=premium

[Winehole23]

The U.S. central bank bought $272 billion of government debt last week, of the more than $500 billion authorized, which Bullard emphasized should not be seen as a limit.

“This is unlimited and we can go much higher if necessary,” he said. “We are trying to provide as much support as we can to that market.”

[Thread]

Fed's Bullard says US unemployment could reach 30% and GDP drop 50% in Q2.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-22/fed-s-bullard-says-u-s-jobless-rate-may-soar-to-30-in-2q?srnd=premium

There-is-no-ceiling.

[Winehole23]

There-is-no-ceiling.Sadly, the US Senate will be too stingy and too slow to move to keep workers and owners from falling into penury en masse -- but it will be another good chance for the .01% to gobble up yet more stuff for pennies on the dollar, that's what the Fed bailout targets.

Maybe that's the plan. The US.policy of undertesting plus Congressional inaction would tend to ensure it.

[Winehole23]

If Boeing rejects the bailout because the government wants an equity stake, and says it has other funding sources, why does it need a public bailout?

https://thehill.com/policy/finance/489255-boeing-ceo-says-company-may-reject-stimulus-if-treasury-seeks-equity-stake

[ChumpDumper]

Market likes the bailout/stimulus talks in general.

[SnakeBoy]

Trump approval rising, disapproval dropping. Gallup has him 49% approval and disapproval down to 45%.

Probably has more to do Dems really playing the wrong hand right now imo.

[boutons_deux]

If Boeing rejects the bailout because the government wants an equity stake, and says it has other funding sources, why does it need a public bailout?

https://thehill.com/policy/finance/489255-boeing-ceo-says-company-may-reject-stimulus-if-treasury-seeks-equity-stake

lower interest from govt, than non-govt funders?

[ChumpDumper]

Trump approval rising, disapproval dropping. Gallup has him 49% approval and disapproval down to 45%.

Probably has more to do Dems really playing the wrong hand right now imo.

I'm glad you're so happy Trump set his arbitrary Easter date.:tu

[spurraider21]

republicans: we must come together with bipartisan support for this bill that was not drafted in a bipartisan effort

[TeyshaBlue]

"The economy is crashing and people are getting sick and dying because you 2 hard (expletive) think your agendas are bigger than the health and future of the American people," he wrote. "They are not. There is no perfect deal. TIME IS OUR ENEMY. Get this done today!"


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/mavericks/2020/03/24/mark-cuban-mavericks-blasts-senators-schumer-cornyn-coronavirus-stalemate/2906795001/

Dude's on target here.

[Spurminator]

Mark Cuban is absolutely killing it lately.

[Thread]

Mark Cuban is absolutely killing it lately.


Nothing will top his murder of the Lakers back there when he went door-to-door about our shenanigans.

We've never recovered.

[spurraider21]

Nothing will top his murder of the Lakers back there when he went door-to-door about our shenanigans.

We've never recovered.
nah. nothing will top this

https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/miracleindustry/americas-most-admired-lawbreaker/assets/documents/9/Melsheimer-Mavericks-motion.pdf

[boutons_deux]

from a Public Citizen email

"One section of the 1,000-page plan contains good language that would prevent companies from using bailout money to buy back their own stock, increase dividends or raise CEO compensation.

But the very next section gives Donald Trump’s sycophantic Treasury Secretary, Steve Mnuchin,

the power to ignore the previous section and

let Big Business do whatever it wants with our money!"

and surely, with their stocks low, they intend to buy low and sell high

[boutons_deux]

"Senators Tim Scott (R-SC),

Lindsey Graham (R-SC), and

Ben Sasse (R-NE), said:

“A massive drafting error in the current version of the coronavirus relief legislation could have devastating consequences:

Unless this bill is fixed, there is a strong incentive for employees to be laid off instead of going to work.”


(https://www.kindest.com/campaign/raw-story-investigates-invest-in-courageous-progressive-journalism)
“This isn’t an abstract, philosophical point — it’s an immediate, real-world problem,” they continued.

“If the federal government accidentally incentivizes layoffs, :lol

we risk life-threatening shortages in sectors where doctors, nurses, and pharmacists are trying to care for the sick, and

where growers and grocers, truckers and cooks are trying to get food to families’ tables.”

reporter:

“I apologize — I don’t know how to ask this without sounding like I’m being a smart ass, and I’m not,” the reporter said off camera.

“But do you understand

how bad the optics are to have probably the wealthiest person in the Senate potentially

holding up this bill for a couple hundreds bucks for some of the poorest people in this country?”

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/03/reporter-nails-senate-gop-as-they-complain-about-unemployed-people-getting-too-much-money/?utm_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=4102&recip_id=298460&list_id=1

If the so-called error was in favor of BigDonor,

these three Repug assholes wouldn't make a peep

(because it wouldn't have been an error, but intentional and obscure as possible)

[pgardn]

Backing Boots last statement:

But that timeline continued to slip as the day dragged into the evening with Sens. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), Tim Scott (R-S.C.), Ben Sasse (R-Neb.) and Rick Scott (R-Fla.) opposing speedy consideration of the measure over concerns it would encourage employees to be laid off instead of working.



Politico

Boots the red team stopped this.
They saw the problem.

[boutons_deux]

False Claim of Congressional Pay Raises in Stimulus Bill
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/false-claim-of-congressional-pay-raises-in-stimulus-bill/

[boutons_deux]

Coronavirus economic updates:

Record 3.28 million people file for unemployment

The health crisis has increasingly become an economic one.

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/coronavirus-economic-updates-32-million-people-filed-unemployment/story?id=69808162 (https://abcnews.go.com/Business/coronavirus-economic-updates-32-million-people-filed-unemployment/story?id=69808162)

[rmt]

Coronavirus economic updates:

Record 3.28 million people file for unemployment

The health crisis has increasingly become an economic one.

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/coronavirus-economic-updates-32-million-people-filed-unemployment/story?id=69808162 (https://abcnews.go.com/Business/coronavirus-economic-updates-32-million-people-filed-unemployment/story?id=69808162)

What do you think, bou? Should we continue the shelter in place in favor of ruining the economy?

[baseline bum]

What do you think, bou? Should we continue the shelter in place in favor of ruining the economy?

You think things would be any better if a bunch of people die instead?

[boutons_deux]

What do you think, bou? Should we continue the shelter in place in favor of ruining the economy?

I've always said, looking at history, the only way The People have retaken power from their oligarchy (royalty, royalty+Catholic church, King George III) has been by violent revolution. Why would USA not do it (again)?

I'd rather trash the economy (I do worry about my kids and grandkids) rather than have 100Ks of Americans die to "save" the economy.

1) I don't think putting Labor back to work would reliably save the economy, and of course Labor would be diseased and die by the millions while the oligarchy protects itself (see Murdochs self-protection while Fox pushes people towards disease and death)

2) crashing the economy might enable More Power To The People, as they see how Capital wants Labor to sacrifice itself so Capital can keep fucking over Labor

3) however, nothing is guaranteed, except the oligarchy's wealth, power, and continued ownership of enslaved, lied-to Americans.

Parallel with French Revolution, the American oligarchy is the royalty (armed royalty) with Repugs and evangelicals as its foot soldiers and priests.

Here's French political cartoon after the French Revolution destroyed the Catholic Church's dominance

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/The_French_Glory.jpg

[Winehole23]

What do you think, bou? Should we continue the shelter in place in favor of ruining the economy?The economy can be rebuilt, the dead can't be revived.

We're already in a recession. With millions of newly unemployed during the last month, it's going to get worse: millions will lose their health insurance.

Trillions in stimulus for Wall St -- what's your take on that, rmt? -- won't heal the sick or revive their jobs. What we need is social insurance to take care of people, who after all are the lifeblood and productive power of our economy.

[ChumpDumper]

What do you think, bou? Should we continue the shelter in place in favor of ruining the economy?

Go out and get yourself infected for the economy's sake. I read they're thinking about throwing parties for that.

[pgardn]

Bill passes Senate 96-0

Trump rejected by red team.
He will not have the power to appropriate money for industry.
Good luck with your business and your transparency in letting our country know your financial stake.
Red team members know the blue team does not trust you, fat fella.

Go buy some respirators on the black market and mark them up.

[pgardn]

What do you think, bou? Should we continue the shelter in place in favor of ruining the economy?

Do this, or this will happen?

Its clear it will be a combination of both depending on where you live and timing. Let’s ALL hope we can get this correct.
So Trump needs to stay clear of decisions and speaking and tweeting.

[rmt]

You think things would be any better if a bunch of people die instead?

You're preaching to the choir - I have an asthmatic son - I've left the house once in the past 2 weeks to get fresh fruit.

I'm just asking his opinion.

[boutons_deux]

Trump rejected by red team.
He will not have the power to appropriate money for industry.

Mnuchin DOES have control over the slush fund, with no oversight. Barr thrilled to block Congress from oversight of autocratic Exec

[rmt]

I've always said, looking at history, the only way The People have retaken power from their oligarchy (royalty, royalty+Catholic church, King George III) has been by violent revolution. Why would USA not do it (again)?

I'd rather trash the economy (I do worry about my kids and grandkids) rather than have 100Ks of Americans die to "save" the economy.

1) I don't think putting Labor back to work would reliably save the economy, and of course Labor would be diseased and die by the millions while the oligarchy protects itself (see Murdochs self-protection while Fox pushes people towards disease and death)

2) crashing the economy might enable More Power To The People, as they see how Capital wants Labor to sacrifice itself so Capital can keep fucking over Labor

3) however, nothing is guaranteed, except the oligarchy's wealth, power, and continued ownership of enslaved, lied-to Americans.

Parallel with French Revolution, the American oligarchy is the royalty (armed royalty) with Repugs and evangelicals as its foot soldiers and priests.

Here's French political cartoon after the French Revolution destroyed the Catholic Church's dominance

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/The_French_Glory.jpg

So many "oligarchy"

[rmt]

Go out and get yourself infected for the economy's sake. I read they're thinking about throwing parties for that.

Why do you assume that I'm for saving the economy? You couldn't be more wrong.

[ChumpDumper]

Why do you assume that I'm for saving the economy? You couldn't be more wrong.

So you're against Trump on this?

:tu

[vy65]

nah. nothing will top this

https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/miracleindustry/americas-most-admired-lawbreaker/assets/documents/9/Melsheimer-Mavericks-motion.pdf

So much BDE in that filing

[boutons_deux]

So many "oligarchy"

The oligarchy of the hyper-wealthy Catholic Church, in concert with the French royalty, for centuries fleeced and oppressed the "dirt" poor.

The French oligarchy got hung (pictured), beheaded, burned

[Winehole23]

One estimate: 14 million newly unemployed by June.


Finally, we should note that the risks of doing too much versus doing too little are extremely asymmetric. Traditionally, the risks of overshooting on stimulus is that policymakers might spark inflation or spike interest rates. But both inflation and interest rates were extraordinarily low even before the coronavirus shock when unemployment rates were historically low. The risks of spiking this seems very remote, and the downsides to temporarily causing them to rise faster than expected are extremely mild. The risk of doing too little fiscal stimulus are huge—potentially years of elevated joblessness and economic suffering. https://www.epi.org/blog/the-coronavirus-fiscal-response-should-be-as-big-as-needed-but-current-forecasts-indicate-at-least-2-1-trillion-is-needed-through-2020/

[rmt]

So you're against Trump on this?

:tu

Why does everything come back to Trump? I think it'll be a phase-in - with young people, those who have resolved, or low risk will go back first. Unfortunately for me, that means K-12 students. I plan to get a note from the primary care/allergist and lobby for him finishing high school at home. There will be a LOT of resistance from him and the looming fight is something I don't even want to think about. I'm praying that MDCPS will just continue with virtual learning for the rest of the year.

[boutons_deux]

Democrats Are Handing Donald Trump The Keys To The Country

The Senate coronavirus bill is shocking.

a sentence of unprecedented economic inequality and corporate control over our politics that will resonate for a generation.

a transfer of wealth and power to the super rich from the rest of us, with the support of both political parties ― a damning statement about the condition of American democracy.

the new law would establish a $4.5 trillion corporate bailout fund overseen by Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin,

with few substantive constraints.

Some outlets are reporting this as a $500 billion fund,

but $425 billion of that can be leveraged 10 times over by the Federal Reserve, resulting in a multi-trillion-dollar program.

The bill permits bailed out companies to lay off up to 10% of their workforce over the next six months,

with no restrictions thereafter.

Mnuchin would have authority to waive any upside for the public in its new investments, and

the bill’s restrictions on stock buybacks at bailed-out firms are too temporary to be significant.

Bailed out companies could even pay dividends to their shareholders.

Bailout money will flow to the shareholders of large corporations

The oversight terms... replicating the toothless provisions of the 2008 bank bailout that

enabled watchdogs to report abuse but not actually prevent or rectify it.

“If you give vast amounts of public money to a single person with no real accountability,

you won’t like what happens next,”

It is a panicked and reckless legislative response,”

that “will repeat most of the mistakes made in the 2008-2010 bailouts” and “fundamentally transform the American economy,”

Large corporations can get money, his company would “just look at all the other options, and we’ve got plenty of them,”

if Congress were to demand an equity stake in the companies it assists.

Democrats and Republicans have essentially decided to hold a pittance of relief for the people hit hardest hostage to the most reckless and, at the moment,

unnecessary corporate welfare program ever conceived.

The legislation provides nothing of substance to address the coronavirus pandemic itself.

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D) has already said the package will do next to nothing (https://twitter.com/ChrisJansing/status/1242839637950902273) to assuage the disaster unfolding in his state.

It mobilizes no new resources,

organizes no production,

improves no medical supply delivery and

trains no new nurses.

Instead, it moves an enormous amount of money around and

puts the Trump administration in charge of its movement.

We live in an era in which the wealthy and the well-connected dominate almost every aspect of our society.

The rich not only live different lives than the rest of us ―

they live significantly (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4866586/)longer (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4866586/)lives (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4866586/),

The financial crisis of 2008 and the bank bailouts it inspired did long-term damage to the American social fabric.

The financial sector essentially became a criminal syndicate (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-does-wells-fargo-still-exist_n_5b80148ee4b0729515126185),

as fraud settlements became a simple cost of doing business for bailed-out banks like Wells Fargo (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/wells-fargo-ceo-timothy-sloan-congress_n_5c87fa84e4b0450ddae4e655).

“We will be lucky if most small businesses see any assistance in less than two months,”

“That is time they — and their employees — do not have.”

As with the bank bailouts, big companies will grow larger and more profitable and

demand further control over the way what we still call a democracy is organized.

these horrors will only be realized if the House of Representatives approves this monstrosity.

Democrats control the House.

They can pass any bill they like and dare Senate Republicans and the president to oppose a serious bill for a serious problem.

Or they can rubber-stamp the Senate bill and help Donald Trump foreclose on the next generation of American democracy.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/senate-democrats-donald-trump-coronavirus-bill_n_5e7b77a6c5b62a1870d62d83?ncid=newsltushpmgn ews

Of course, 100millionaire Pelosi and most of the Dems, and ALL of the Repugs will vote for yet another bailout/empowerment of the oligarchy.

America is fucked and unfuckable

This is a Repug campaign tactic.

Repugs bailout the oligarchy in 2020 (after the 2107 tax cut scam) and the oligarchy finances Repug control of the Senate, and reelection of Trash. quid pro quo, BLATANT corruption

The Capitalists will be evicting renters into homelessness, hiking up rents, and repossessing homes and cars by the millions, AGAIN.

[rmt]

Take heart, bou. If the Dems win back the WH, it'll be BIDEN in charge of that vast amount of money. Whether that's reassuring or not, is up to you :-)

[ChumpDumper]

Why does everything come back to Trump?He's president and he wants to pack the churches for Easter.

[Thread]

He's president and he wants to pack the churches for Easter.

& because he whooped the dog shit outta Hillary Clinton in broad daylight, & nobody is going to forge that (lover & hater alike) as long as they live.

He made President.

& by scapegoating him, by punishing him, by torturing him,,,word is sent ahead to any other American who gets a hard on to be President...

- "No strangers, ever."

- Ray Liotta - "Goodfellas"

[ChumpDumper]

& because he whooped the dog shit outta Hillary Clinton in broad daylight, & nobody is going to forge that (lover & hater alike) as long as they live.

He made President.

& by scapegoating him, by punishing him, by torturing him,,,word is sent ahead to any other American who gets a hard on to be President...

- "No strangers, ever."

- Ray Liotta - "Goodfellas"He wanted the job. He got it. That's where the buck stops.

Sorry, he's a terrible president.

[Thread]

He wanted the job. He got it. That's where the buck stops.

Sorry, he's a terrible president.

He's the greatest President to ever walk the face of earth.

[ChumpDumper]

He's the greatest President to ever walk the face of earth.Nope. He's the worst. Buchanan was better.

[boutons_deux]

Take heart, bou. If the Dems win back the WH, it'll be BIDEN in charge of that vast amount of money. Whether that's reassuring or not, is up to you :-)

Joe has already told his big donors "nothing will change" his version of "read my lips, no new taxes"

[rmt]

Joe has already told his big donors "nothing will change" his version of "read my lips, no new taxes"

So, it'll be like Trump minus the racism, misogyny, etc, etc plus the creepy kissing grandkids on lips, leg hairs, stumbling, etc?

[rmt]

He's the greatest President to ever walk the face of earth.

Oh, I wouldn't go sooooo far :-)

[TheGreatYacht]

Corporate Media Hides Ugly Truth of Stimulus Bill

https://youtu.be/VXPjNLIJ3W4

[boutons_deux]

Take heart, bou. If the Dems win back the WH, it'll be BIDEN in charge of that vast amount of money. Whether that's reassuring or not, is up to you :-)

nothing is up to me or any voters. The political class will always take care of its corrupt self and its corrupting/corrupt financiers

[Splits]

Denmark’s Idea Could Help the World Avoid a Great Depression“We are freezing the economy.”

MARCH 21, 2020

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/denmark-freezing-its-economy-should-us/608533/

[boutons_deux]

Repug quid pro cruise industry quo

Cruise industry can’t use the stimulus because

they aren’t American companies — but

White House says they want to make an exception

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/03/cruise-industry-cant-use-the-stimulus-because-they-arent-american-companies-but-white-house-says-they-want-to-make-an-exception/?utm_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=4117

[boutons_deux]

Rep. Thomas Massie (R-KY) said that he not only intends to vote no on the bill, he intends to hold it up.

“If it were just about helping people to get more unemployment (benefits) to get through this calamity that, frankly, the governors have wrought on the people, then I could be for it,”

“But this is $2 trillion,” he continued.

“Divide $2 trillion by 350 million people — it’s almost $6,000 for every man, woman and child. I’m talking about spending.

This won’t go to the men, women and children.

So if you have a family of five, this spending bill represents $30,000 of additional U.S. national debt because

there is no plan to pay for it.”

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/03/republicans-are-traveling-to-dc-just-to-vote-against-the-coronavirus-stimulus-bill-report/?utm_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=4117 (https://www.rawstory.com/2020/03/republicans-are-traveling-to-dc-just-to-vote-against-the-coronavirus-stimulus-bill-report/?utm_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=4117)

Other Repugs are travelling to DC to vote against the bill because of some Dem stuff and conspiracies

[Winehole23]

Trump is still trying to kick 700,000 people off of food stamps during an historic pandemic/recession.

https://apnews.com/e2a2e9be5950a98f4dabcc2649aef332

[Winehole23]

To flatten the curve, Americans are admonished not to work, but the relief offered does not replace their income, nor will it cover necessities like rent/mortgage payments, utility bills and debt obligations. For non-medical countermeasures to work, the USG should protect a broad swath of the populace from hunger, penury, eviction and debt.


So long as we continue to embrace a lockdown strategy, generous relief is key to securing widespread support for its maintenance. It will become politically impossible to sustain a government-mandated lockdown where workers are forced to stay at home, absent some income support to facilitate compliance with that order.
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2020/03/the-coronavirus-stimulus-bill-is-a-2-trillion-slush-fund-for-washington-cronies.html

[Winehole23]

Under the guise of a public health emergency, though, serial corporate predators are being given dollops from this massive public trough with no means of engendering the kind of economic reconstruction that is truly needed right now, or even preventing a sufficiently robust response if this virus comes back in a second or third wave

[boutons_deux]

It looks like the $1200 is nothing but a shell game with the IRS, not really an extra $1200 given to you.

iow, net zero income while the oligarchy, yet again, pockets $100Bs for doing nothing, with the debt "paid for" by cutting social safety net, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security.

[boutons_deux]

Here's Barr and the Repug/oligarchy royal "unitary executive" doing fucking up America

Trump says he has the power to block provision of stimulus that informs Congress where the corporate bailouts go

In a signing statement, Trump said that

he intends to ignore the provision of the bill

that requires the newly-created Special Inspector General for Pandemic Recovery to report to Congress “without delay” when any other agencies in his administration refuse to provide information about how the money is being spent.

he is granting himself authority

to block the inspector general from reporting inter-agency obstruction to Congress

— even though the bill does not provide for allowing him to do so.

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/03/trump-says-he-has-the-power-to-block-provision-of-stimulus-that-informs-congress-where-the-corporate-bailouts-go/?utm_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=4135&recip_id=298460&list_id=1

[Winehole23]

Anonymous national company to Austin employees: give us your bailout money or be fired.

https://www.kxan.com/news/austin-company-looking-to-dock-paychecks-for-those-receiving-stimulus-checks/

[Thread]

I can't wait for my 2400 smackers:::

Lots of 1/2&1/2, no more milk in my coffee & tea.
A pair of hundred dollar Hammacher Schlemmer (https://www.hammacher.com/category/apparel-slippers) slippers.
A shopping spree at the Goodwill.

[Thread]

Anybody have any word to which the USPS got their debt wiped thru this 2.3 trillion Bill?

[Winehole23]

Anybody have any word to which the USPS got their debt wiped thru this 2.3 trillion Bill?Not I.

[Thread]

Not I.

& one would figure they'd be throwing it in our face if they did.

..."Americans will get $1200 a piece, but, the USPS got their entire debt wiped clean."

[Winehole23]

& one would figure they'd be throwing it in our face if they did.

..."Americans will get $1200 a piece, but, the USPS got their entire debt wiped clean."I would say the $454B of taxpayer money given to the Fed to leverage out to the ninth power for (soon to be) insolvent banks and non-banks grates like, 20 (or 20,000 times) more -- if bailing out the USPS bothered me. It doesn't.

Why does it bother you?

[Winehole23]

& one would figure they'd be throwing it in our face if they did.

..."Americans will get $1200 a piece, but, the USPS got their entire debt wiped clean."I agree the CARES Act is too heavily tilted to corporations and should have been way more generous to Joe Q. Public.

[boutons_deux]

https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90883775_10222103050708696_3492818308783144960_n.j pg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=0be424&_nc_ohc=owA6Q_hgTnYAX88vrLS&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=6930be6a375a9298bc205f560e8d8f35&oe=5EA4F97E

[Thread]

https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90883775_10222103050708696_3492818308783144960_n.j pg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=0be424&_nc_ohc=owA6Q_hgTnYAX88vrLS&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=6930be6a375a9298bc205f560e8d8f35&oe=5EA4F97E

Bottom right quadrant:::+ $600 per week in addition to 40 weeks of Unemployment.

[boutons_deux]

A great reason, one of many, for kicking Trash's sorry butt out office is that is his EOs, including tariffs, expire.

btw, all those tariff $Bs Trash taxed Americans with? where are they?

[boutons_deux]

'Tip of the Iceberg':

Economists Warn Record 3.28 Million Jobless Claims Could Signal Coming Depression

"We are about to experience something we cannot really imagine."

Jobless claims last week were a record 3.28 million,

smashing the previous high mark of 695,000 in 1982 and deepening fears of a looming economic depression that could see millions more out of work.

While the Labor Department numbers are daunting, and catastrophic, they're likely nowhere near the whole story,

"Absent from these unemployment claims are people with jobs in the informal economy,
which is driven by workers who face structural barriers,
such as formerly incarcerated people,
undocumented immigrant workers, or
the self-employed in dozens of industries,
from street vendors to
domestic workers and more,"

Economists told (https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/03/26/unemployment-claims-coronavirus-3-million/) the Washington Post that the "widespread carnage" of Thursday's initial numbers were just the beginning of what could be an unprecedented

40 million Americans out of work by April.

"We project that enacting the $600 weekly supplement alone will benefit some 11 million workers, delivering up to $115 billion in additional money to affected workers,"

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/03/26/tip-iceberg-economists-warn-record-328-million-jobless-claims-could-signal-coming?cd-origin=rss&utm_term=AO&utm_campaign=Weekly%20Newsletter&utm_content=email&utm_source=Weekly%20Newsletter&utm_medium=Email (https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/03/26/tip-iceberg-economists-warn-record-328-million-jobless-claims-could-signal-coming?cd-origin=rss&utm_term=AO&utm_campaign=Weekly%20Newsletter&utm_content=email&utm_source=Weekly%20Newsletter&utm_medium=Email)

[Thread]

'Tip of the Iceberg':

Economists Warn Record 3.28 Million Jobless Claims Could Signal Coming Depression

"We are about to experience something we cannot really imagine."

Jobless claims last week were a record 3.28 million,

smashing the previous high mark of 695,000 in 1982 and deepening fears of a looming economic depression that could see millions more out of work.

While the Labor Department numbers are daunting, and catastrophic, they're likely nowhere near the whole story,

"Absent from these unemployment claims are people with jobs in the informal economy,
which is driven by workers who face structural barriers,
such as formerly incarcerated people,
undocumented immigrant workers, or
the self-employed in dozens of industries,
from street vendors to
domestic workers and more,"

Economists told (https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/03/26/unemployment-claims-coronavirus-3-million/) the Washington Post that the "widespread carnage" of Thursday's initial numbers were just the beginning of what could be an unprecedented

40 million Americans out of work by April.

"We project that enacting the $600 weekly supplement alone will benefit some 11 million workers, delivering up to $115 billion in additional money to affected workers,"

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/03/26/tip-iceberg-economists-warn-record-328-million-jobless-claims-could-signal-coming?cd-origin=rss&utm_term=AO&utm_campaign=Weekly%20Newsletter&utm_content=email&utm_source=Weekly%20Newsletter&utm_medium=Email (https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/03/26/tip-iceberg-economists-warn-record-328-million-jobless-claims-could-signal-coming?cd-origin=rss&utm_term=AO&utm_campaign=Weekly%20Newsletter&utm_content=email&utm_source=Weekly%20Newsletter&utm_medium=Email)

There-is-no-ceiling.

[CosmicCowboy]

For those of you getting money they are saying it could be two or three months till you get it.

[ElNono]

On a different note, all of the anti-socialist peeps here... Nathan89, rmt, etc, you're all returning your checks to the IRS right?

[Thread]

For those of you getting money they are saying it could be two or three months till you get it.

Also saying they're going to set up a Web app for people who don't have Direct Deposit thru the IRS.

[Trill Clinton]

For those of you getting money they are saying it could be two or three months till you get it.

No one here is getting a dime.

[Winehole23]

No one here is getting a dime.Gold-plated socialism for banks and large corporations, a mere crumb for the proles to tide them over a month or so, even though many will be asked to shelter in place for up to three months.

[Winehole23]

(Assuming financial stress does not vitiate social distancing. If people get too hungry, too poor, or get thrown out of their houses, social distancing will fail and we atart all over again.)

[TimDunkem]

Why will it take 3 months if you have direct deposit with the IRS? Maybe for those still dealing with snail mail.

[ElNono]

On a different note, all of the anti-socialist peeps here... Nathan89, rmt, etc, you're all returning your checks to the IRS right?

<crickets>

[Chucho]

(Assuming financial stress does not vitiate social distancing. If people get too hungry, too poor, or get thrown out of their houses, social distancing will fail and we atart all over again.)

You think we'd start all over again? I think at that point, they just let it burn its way through the population. The collateral damage (bodies) won't equate to the damage of bringing our country into the third world, as ugly as it sounds.

[boutons_deux]

Bonanza for Rich Real Estate Investors,

Tucked Into Stimulus Package

A small change to tax policy could hand $170 billion in tax savings to real estate tycoons.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/business/coronavirus-real-estate-investors-stimulus.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/business/coronavirus-real-estate-investors-stimulus.html)

[Winehole23]

You think we'd start all over again? I think at that point, they just let it burn its way through the population. The collateral damage (bodies) won't equate to the damage of bringing our country into the third world, as ugly as it sounds.You're exactly wrong. The studies on this have been done. Unchecked pandemics are more damaging to the economy than containment and mitigation.

[Chucho]

You're exactly wrong. The studies on this have been done. Unchecked pandemics are more damaging to the economy than containment and mitigation.


We've never done anything like this in the states and nobody is like us so far as being the center of the universe. Can you link me to some studies you're familiar with?

[Winehole23]

We've never done anything like this in the states and nobody is like us so far as being the center of the universe. Can you link me to some studies you're familiar with?Sure

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3561560

[Thread]

We've never done anything like this in the states and nobody is like us so far as being the center of the universe. Can you link me to some studies you're familiar with?


Sure

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3561560

Chooch & Winester sittin' in a tree, k.i.s.s.i.n.g., first comes love then comes marriage then comes little Chooch in a baby carriage.

[monosylab1k]

https://twitter.com/gracieelo/status/1244125845494607872?s=21

[monosylab1k]

On a different note, all of the anti-socialist peeps here... Nathan89, rmt, etc, you're all returning your checks to the IRS right?

[Will Hunting]

On a different note, all of the anti-socialist peeps here... Nathan89 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=20260), rmt (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=4593), etc, you're all returning your checks to the IRS right?
I think it was DAF86 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11102) who said this but remarkable how in a time of crisis like this Republicans are ready to trade their supply-side free market shit for some old fashioned Keynesian stimulus.

[Thread]

I think it was DAF86 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11102) who said this but remarkable how in a time of crisis like this Republicans are ready to trade their supply-side free market shit for some old fashioned Keynesian stimulus.

How can one contrast, Will, we ain't ever had a crisis like this.

Though we have been walking around fancy free since the century turned while over a million of us died from Regular Flu. Hells, bells, we didn't even know it was a crisis.

[spurraider21]

How can one contrast, Will, we ain't ever had a crisis like this.
what do you mean? we get the flu every year!

[Thread]

what do you mean? we get the flu every year!

I don't rightly know what I mean, 21,,,just seems odd that we haven't taken a fit over that million+.

[spurraider21]

I don't rightly know what I mean, 21,,,just seems odd that we haven't taken a fit over that million+.
takes somebody really special in charge to turn "just a flu" into a crisis that shuts down the economy

[Will Hunting]

How can one contrast, Will, we ain't ever had a crisis like this.
Right, when we face an unprecedented crisis that no one has dealt with before, Republicans drop the bootstrap capitalism act and are anxious to explore their Keynesian side with a massive government stimulus.

If they really believed all of their free market bullshit, they’d kick back and do nothing since the free market would take care of it.

[Thread]

Right, when we face an unprecedented crisis that no one has dealt with before, Republicans drop the bootstrap capitalism act and are anxious to explore their Keynesian side with a massive government stimulus.

If they really believed all of their free market bullshit, they’d kick back and do nothing since the free market would take care of it.

But, it ain't an economic (enemy) (force), Will. It's a medical enemy, force.

A lot of this Board was eagerly waiting the regular scheduled Recession that they asserted was overdue, even imminent when Corona came waltzing down the pike.

[Will Hunting]

But, it ain't an economic (enemy) (force), Will. It's a medical enemy, force.

A lot of this Board was eagerly waiting the regular scheduled Recession that they asserted was overdue, even imminent when Corona came waltzing down the pike.
It’s an enemy the free market should be able to address if we’re going by supply-side principals.

Lets also not act like this is the first time Republicans went the safe route with a Keynesian-centric stimulus package because they didn’t want to take a chance that the free market wouldn’t be able to stave off complete economic meltdown.

[Thread]

It’s an enemy the free market should be able to address if we’re going by supply-side principals.

Lets also not act like this is the first time Republicans went the safe route with a Keynesian-centric stimulus package because they didn’t want to take a chance that the free market wouldn’t be able to stave off complete economic meltdown.

...true, but, they had an excuse (Corona, an unknown entity) to mash the panic button & dole out the trillions. & they ain't done, not by a long shot. All the safeguards & warning lights have been unplugged now.

Questions are asked about Corona,,,and the hemmin' & hawin' immediately starts. [That is disconcerting] to everyone. Watch 'em when the questions are asked...they immediately move about in their seat, their eyes dart just a motion as they're grasping for it..."uh.......wash your hands for 20 seconds and don't touch your face, Wolf."

With AIDs they had an answer, a lie yes, but, a ready answer that quelled the panic..."only 35% at most of those who test positive for HIV will develop AIDs." We bought that lie and settled back into our lives. The ones who called it a lie were persecuted and silenced.

[Trainwreck2100]

No one here is getting a dime.

all these people getting enough money to cover rent for a month, 1 month, which would most likely go to some corporation anyway.

[ElNono]

I think it was DAF86 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11102) who said this but remarkable how in a time of crisis like this Republicans are ready to trade their supply-side free market shit for some old fashioned Keynesian stimulus.

Is the flip side of that old canard always pushed when somebody says we should be paying more in taxes... "well, why don't you write a check to the IRS then?"

[spurraider21]

Is the flip side of that old canard always pushed when somebody says we should be paying more in taxes... "well, why don't you write a check to the IRS then?"
yes and no, because when tax cuts are in play, you usually dont see people of the left saying "yes we need this right now" while being happy the tax cuts are coming... but even conservatives right now agree the stimulus/bailout is a good idea.

the whole "write a check to the IRS" stuff is such a shtick though. nobody likes paying taxes just for the sake of paying taxes, but because they want certain programs implemented (healthcare expansion, etc). writing a blank check to the government is not going to get us towards that end, and in fact, the US is only allowed to use "gifts" for the sole purpose of paying down the national debt

[ElNono]

yes and no, because when tax cuts are in play, you usually dont see people of the left saying "yes we need this right now" while being happy the tax cuts are coming... but even conservatives right now agree the stimulus/bailout is a good idea.

the whole "write a check to the IRS" stuff is such a shtick though. nobody likes paying taxes just for the sake of paying taxes, but because they want certain programs implemented (healthcare expansion, etc). writing a blank check to the government is not going to get us towards that end, and in fact, the US is only allowed to use "gifts" for the sole purpose of paying down the national debt

Not to mention it doesn't work like that. An individual contribution doesn't compare to an actual rate hike.

[boutons_deux]

Fed economists estimate unemployment rate could hit 32 percent

https://theweek.com/speedreads/905745/fed-economists-estimate-unemployment-rate-could-hit-32-percent (https://theweek.com/speedreads/905745/fed-economists-estimate-unemployment-rate-could-hit-32-percent)

and the oligarchy doesn't give the tiniest shit, they got their $Ts in tax cuts and loopholes and off shore tax evasion

32%? Que Les Mangent de la Brioche

[Winehole23]

A deeper dive into the nuts and bolts of financial side of the bailout. The argument is that a Fed/Treasury joint has will be nationalizing parts of the finance sector. Sounds even morenradical than the 2008-9 save.


When the Fed was rightly alarmed by the current dysfunction in the fixed-income markets, they felt they needed to act. This was the correct thought. But, to get the authority to stabilize these “private” markets, central bankers needed the Treasury to agree to nationalize (own) them so they could provide the funds to do it.

In effect, the Fed is giving the Treasury access to its printing press. This means that, in the extreme, the administration would be free to use its control, not the Fed’s control, of these SPVs to instruct the Fed to print more money so it could buy securities and hand out loans in an effort to ramp financial markets higher going into the election. Why stop there? Should Trump win re-election, he could try to use these SPVs to get those 10,000 Dow Jones points he feels the Fed has denied everyone.

If these acronym programs were abused as I describe, they might indeed force markets higher than valuation warrants. But it would come with a heavy price. Investors would be deprived of the necessary market signals that freely traded capital markets offer to aid in the efficient allocation of capital. Malinvestment would be rampant.

It also could force private sector players to leave as the government’s heavy hand makes operating in “controlled” markets uneconomic. This has already occurred in the U.S. federal funds market and the government bond market in Japan.http://archive.vn/9yQff

[Winehole23]

But it’s the alphabet soup of new programs that deserve special consideration, as they could have profound long-term consequences for the functioning of the Fed and the allocation of capital in financial markets. Specifically, these are:

CPFF (Commercial Paper Funding Facility) – buying commercial paper from the issuer.

PMCCF (Primary Market Corporate Credit Facility) – buying corporate bonds from the issuer.

TALF (Term Asset-Backed Securities Loan Facility) – funding backstop for asset-backed securities.

SMCCF (Secondary Market Corporate Credit Facility) – buying corporate bonds and bond ETFs in the secondary market.

MSBLP (Main Street Business Lending Program) – Details are to come, but it will lend to eligible small and medium-size businesses, complementing efforts by the Small Business Association.

[Winehole23]

Really, no one cares about the actual swindle?

Too complicated?

Too boring?

[ElNono]

Really, no one cares about the actual swindle?

Too complicated?

Too boring?

Did you get your check?

[Winehole23]

No.

You?

[ElNono]

Nope... although I'm not sure I qualify

[boutons_deux]

https://i.imgur.com/kN1XKgb.png

[Winehole23]

Matt Taibbi sketches the similarities between the last bailout and this one.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/political-commentary/coronavirus-fed-bank-bailout-disaster-976086/amp/

[Trill Clinton]

https://i.imgur.com/kN1XKgb.png

Crazy aint it?

Not a peep about billionaires and millionaires getting handouts, again.

[Winehole23]

Crazy aint it?

Not a peep about billionaires and millionaires getting handouts, again.After the 2008-9 bailout, the implicit federal backstop became explicit but mostly for banks and non-bank market makers. This time around a bunch of private corporations have lined up at the trough.

The scale and breadth of the Trump bailout puts Obama's in the shade. Like Obama's bailout, it doesn't do enough for ordinary people, who in this case have been asked to sacrifice their livelihoods temporarily for the common good.

[Winehole23]

In prinicple, Republicans shouldn't get to be in charge of a planned economy, which is essentially what we'll have for a couple of years.

[Winehole23]

Sure, let Amazon have a monopoly on package delivery

https://fortune.com/2020/03/30/usps-postal-service-stimulus-package-no-funding-post-office-mail-delivery-could-shutter-june-coronavirus-relief-bill/amp/

[Winehole23]

Stimulus/bailout worthy idea

1245380447636357120

[Winehole23]

Citigroup, one of the worst run banks at the time, was basically reanimated in 2009 during that bailout. It is now administering the 350 billion dollar small business relief program.

The con is long.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/04/01/citigroup-ceo-says-bank-is-working-around-the-clock-on-small-business-relief.html

[Winehole23]

BlackRock was chosen to run the Fed/Treasury SPVs. I understand there are legal reasons for having someone out aide of government run it, but the power and money given to private equity are eye-popping.

[DMC]

Nope... although I'm not sure I qualify

Does Manu still pay you?

[ElNono]

Does Manu still pay you?

I had to get a real job, tbh :depressed

[boutons_deux]

Why the Trump Administration Won’t Be Able to Make the Stimulus Work

As the New Deal shows us,

it takes expertise, professionalism and skill to execute massive government programs—

qualities the White House lacks.

https://static.politico.com/dims4/default/6fe2455/2147483647/resize/1160x%3E/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2Fae%2F63%2 F6c742011492f9714412e8919f9eb%2Ffdrtrumpstory-final.jpg

signs of problems:

The $350 billion lending program to help small businesses won’t be ready (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/02/banks-small-business-lending-program-launch-161106) for its launch this week,

with banks claiming the White House set an unrealistic deadline and unworkable terms, and

failed to provide basic rules and guidelines.

FDR’s much greater achievement was enacting it—

spending the money,
putting shovels in the ground,
getting money in people’s pockets.

Like most New Deal initiatives, the Big Bill required
a White House both deft and nimble at administration,
staffed by legions of capable professionals who were singularly focused on execution.

Those qualities embodied the New Dealers—

young men and women who, by the many thousands, converged on Washington, D.C., in the 1930s
to make FDR’s vision a reality.

Trump has waged war (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/04/how-to-destroy-a-government/606793/) on the federal government,

leaving vast numbers of key roles unfilled (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/us/politics/coronavirus-expertise-trump.html),

bullying and hollowing out the ranks of the nonpartisan civil service and

populating his White House and Cabinet (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2018/03/14/heres-the-case-trump-has-the-worst-cabinet-ever/) with men and women of little qualification (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/25/college-senior-white-house-personnel-office-117493).

One of the top deputies at the Office of Presidential Personnel—

a key office that selects, vets and ushers through the clearance and confirmation processes top administration officials—

is a 23-year-old college senior (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/25/college-senior-white-house-personnel-office-117493).

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/04/04/does-the-trump-administration-have-the-talent-make-the-stimulus-work-163982

[boutons_deux]

Senate Republicans brag about unemployment 'lifeline' they voted against
https://images.dailykos.com/images/593870/story_image/GettyImages-1042005510.jpg?1538140945


Senate Republicans made a giant stink about the $600-per-week boost to unemployment insurance included in the novel coronavirus stimulus.

It was just too much money for low-income people (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/3/25/1931207/-Coronavirus-bill-held-up-by-GOP-to-punish-minimum-wage-workers-McConnell-plans-month-long-recess), they said.

Nurses might decide not to work (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/3/25/1931212/-Go-to-hell-Lindsey-Graham), said Sen. Lindsey Graham,

because they could get so much money being unemployed. Nurses!

So obviously now some of the very same

Senate Republicans who voted for stingier benefits

are bragging to constituents about those same benefits (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/3/25/1931212/-Go-to-hell-Lindsey-Graham). That they tried to cap.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/4/2/1933733/-Senate-Republicans-brag-about-unemployment-lifeline-they-voted-against (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/4/2/1933733/-Senate-Republicans-brag-about-unemployment-lifeline-they-voted-against)

[Thread]

Why the Trump Administration Won’t Be Able to Make the Stimulus Work

As the New Deal shows us,

it takes expertise, professionalism and skill to execute massive government programs—

qualities the White House lacks.

https://static.politico.com/dims4/default/6fe2455/2147483647/resize/1160x%3E/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2Fae%2F63%2 F6c742011492f9714412e8919f9eb%2Ffdrtrumpstory-final.jpg

signs of problems:

The $350 billion lending program to help small businesses won’t be ready (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/02/banks-small-business-lending-program-launch-161106) for its launch this week,

with banks claiming the White House set an unrealistic deadline and unworkable terms, and

failed to provide basic rules and guidelines.

FDR’s much greater achievement was enacting it—

spending the money,
putting shovels in the ground,
getting money in people’s pockets.

Like most New Deal initiatives, the Big Bill required
a White House both deft and nimble at administration,
staffed by legions of capable professionals who were singularly focused on execution.

Those qualities embodied the New Dealers—

young men and women who, by the many thousands, converged on Washington, D.C., in the 1930s
to make FDR’s vision a reality.

Trump has waged war (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/04/how-to-destroy-a-government/606793/) on the federal government,

leaving vast numbers of key roles unfilled (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/us/politics/coronavirus-expertise-trump.html),

bullying and hollowing out the ranks of the nonpartisan civil service and

populating his White House and Cabinet (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2018/03/14/heres-the-case-trump-has-the-worst-cabinet-ever/) with men and women of little qualification (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/25/college-senior-white-house-personnel-office-117493).

One of the top deputies at the Office of Presidential Personnel—

a key office that selects, vets and ushers through the clearance and confirmation processes top administration officials—

is a 23-year-old college senior (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/25/college-senior-white-house-personnel-office-117493).

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/04/04/does-the-trump-administration-have-the-talent-make-the-stimulus-work-163982



He ain't looking for a cure thru (it). He signed on & it to buy time...it's just money, cash, "black gold, Texas tea."

Open it back up ASAP and recruit the usual suspects (Saudis, Putin, et al) to pump life back into it (resuscitation)(retarding) the D's who are vested in keeping it comatose till November.

That's it & that's all.

[CosmicCowboy]

Why the Trump Administration Won’t Be Able to Make the Stimulus Work

As the New Deal shows us,

it takes expertise, professionalism and skill to execute massive government programs—

qualities the White House lacks.

https://static.politico.com/dims4/default/6fe2455/2147483647/resize/1160x%3E/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2Fae%2F63%2 F6c742011492f9714412e8919f9eb%2Ffdrtrumpstory-final.jpg

signs of problems:

The $350 billion lending program to help small businesses won’t be ready (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/02/banks-small-business-lending-program-launch-161106) for its launch this week,

with banks claiming the White House set an unrealistic deadline and unworkable terms, and

failed to provide basic rules and guidelines.

FDR’s much greater achievement was enacting it—

spending the money,
putting shovels in the ground,
getting money in people’s pockets.

Like most New Deal initiatives, the Big Bill required
a White House both deft and nimble at administration,
staffed by legions of capable professionals who were singularly focused on execution.

Those qualities embodied the New Dealers—

young men and women who, by the many thousands, converged on Washington, D.C., in the 1930s
to make FDR’s vision a reality.

Trump has waged war (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/04/how-to-destroy-a-government/606793/) on the federal government,

leaving vast numbers of key roles unfilled (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/us/politics/coronavirus-expertise-trump.html),

bullying and hollowing out the ranks of the nonpartisan civil service and

populating his White House and Cabinet (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2018/03/14/heres-the-case-trump-has-the-worst-cabinet-ever/) with men and women of little qualification (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/25/college-senior-white-house-personnel-office-117493).

One of the top deputies at the Office of Presidential Personnel—

a key office that selects, vets and ushers through the clearance and confirmation processes top administration officials—

is a 23-year-old college senior (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/25/college-senior-white-house-personnel-office-117493).

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/04/04/does-the-trump-administration-have-the-talent-make-the-stimulus-work-163982



Its already launched, dumbass. Tha applications are out. Local banks administer them.

[boutons_deux]

Its already launched, dumbass. Tha applications are out. Local banks administer them.

dumbass, the banks are going slow, think the loans are too risky

[Thread]

dumbass, the banks are going slow, think the loans are too risky

But, they're going to cut those checks. They've nary other choice. It's a give-a-way. It's just against their "upbringing." But, they'll get with the program, or, get left in the lurch as the other/lesser/community banks move in.

The switch has been flipped. IT IS A GIVE-A-WAY and "we'd all" better get it while the getting is good. Because once (they) turn that spigot, not down, but, OFF, that's it. It won't be turned on again for a long, long time.

[CosmicCowboy]

dumbass, the banks are going slow, think the loans are too risky

Dunbass, they aren't either. Things are actually happening outside your mamas smokey singlewide.

[CosmicCowboy]

The debate is over. Modern Monetary Theory won thanks to Covid19.

[ElNono]

The debate is over. Modern Monetary Theory won thanks to Covid19.

It did? A $6 billion bailout is not monetarism...

[baseline bum]

It did? A $6 billion bailout is not monetarism...

Isn't the corporate bailout more like $4.5 trillion since Mnuchin can extend it ten times?

[ElNono]

Isn't the corporate bailout more like $4.5 trillion since Mnuchin can extend it ten times?

AFAIK, it's $2 trillion for the plebe/corporate, with $500 billion in there to leverage the $4 trillion slush fund from the treasury.

I'm being generous here too, not counting the earlier market bailout.

And sure, some people will claim, "they're just loans". But that's not how monetarism works.

[boutons_deux]

Airlines Are Getting Bailout Money—

But There Are a Lot of Strings Attached


https://www.cntraveler.com/story/airlines-are-getting-bailout-money-but-there-are-a-lot-of-strings-attached?utm_source=nl&utm_brand=biz&utm_campaign=aud-dev&utm_mailing=thematic_business_040620&utm_medium=email&bxid=5bd6795524c17c1048022fcc&cndid=43758549&utm_content=Final&utm_term=Thematic_Business

[CosmicCowboy]

The PPP program is perfect to keep a lot of people employed

[boutons_deux]

Trump removes inspector general who was to oversee $2 trillion stimulus spending

In just the past four days, Trump

has ousted two inspectors general and

expressed displeasure with a third,

a pattern that critics say is a direct assault on one of the pillars of good governance.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-removes-inspector-general-who-was-to-oversee-2-trillion-stimulus-spending/2020/04/07/2f0c6cb8-78ea-11ea-9bee-c5bf9d2e3288_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-removes-inspector-general-who-was-to-oversee-2-trillion-stimulus-spending/2020/04/07/2f0c6cb8-78ea-11ea-9bee-c5bf9d2e3288_story.html)

[pgardn]

This is gonna be a long thread if people care to follow the money.

Stories of misuse must occur when this much $ goes out.

Michigan worker fired 2 years ago for stealing, uses c virus money to escape massive 10 year credit card fraud; lawyers up.

Airline executive retires with millions directly after c virus $ misuse.

[pgardn]

Twitter stories could explode when some feel they got left out and read about those who got bailed out needlessly.
I expect the people worried about the federal debt will be the greatest contributors... ehhh... nah.

[Winehole23]

The PPP program is perfect to keep a lot of people employedHow's that working out so far?

[CosmicCowboy]

How's that working out so far?

Looks like Congress is going to add another 250 Billion to the pot. In two days Frost bank alone has taken over a billion dollars in applications. Minuchin says funding will be within 2-3 weeks of receipt of applcations.

[boutons_deux]

Critics claim Trump’s ‘confession’ on permanent payroll tax cut is ‘an excuse to destroy our Social Security system’

President Donald Trump on Tuesday once again voiced

his support for slashing the payroll tax—

the primary funding mechanism for Social Security and Medicare—

and said he would be calling for such a cut even if the U.S. were not currently in the midst of a nationwide public health and economic emergency.

“I would love to see a payroll tax cut,”

Trump, who has repeatedly vowed (https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/01/24/more-lies-says-sanders-trump-vows-save-social-security-just-one-day-after) to “save” Social Security, :lol

Trump himself has also backed (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-payroll-analys/trumps-coronavirus-payroll-tax-cut-would-punch-hole-in-social-security-medicare-budgets-idUSKBN20Y351) the idea of permanently cutting the payroll tax in talks with Republican lawmakers.

“The payroll tax cut would be a great thing for this country,” :lol

“I would like to have it regardless of [the coronavirus crisis].”

‘payroll tax holiday’ has nothing to do with helping workers and

everything to do with undermining Social Security.”

gutting Social Security’s dedicated funding as an pretext to demand benefit cuts,”

“If Trump and Republicans retain power after November’s elections, they will

make sure that corporations never repay Social Security,”

“Then, Republicans will use the

reduced trust fund as an excuse to destroy our Social Security system.”

White House is considering proposing a payroll tax cut—

as well as a capital gains tax cut :lol—

as part of an additional coronavirus stimulus package.

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/04/critics-claims-trumps-confession-on-permanent-payroll-tax-cut-is-an-excuse-to-destroy-our-social-security-system/?utm_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=4236&recip_id=298460&list_id=1 (https://www.rawstory.com/2020/04/critics-claims-trumps-confession-on-permanent-payroll-tax-cut-is-an-excuse-to-destroy-our-social-security-system/?utm_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=4236&recip_id=298460&list_id=1)

Never let a crisis go to waste

Repugs, oligarchy whores, are fucking non-oligarchy Americans into unfuckability

[SpursforSix]

Looks like Congress is going to add another 250 Billion to the pot. In two days Frost bank alone has taken over a billion dollars in applications. Minuchin says funding will be within 2-3 weeks of receipt of applcations.

What sucks is that these banks can be selective in prioritizing who gets the funds. My guess is that their big clients (who will be asking for more $) are going to be in the front of the line while hundreds of smaller business will have to hope there's money left over. Compounding the problem is that Wells Fargo had to cap their loans due to regulations stemming from their fake account ordeal. They're one of the largest small business lenders in the country.

[CosmicCowboy]

Critics claim Trump’s ‘confession’ on permanent payroll tax cut is ‘an excuse to destroy our Social Security system’

President Donald Trump on Tuesday once again voiced

his support for slashing the payroll tax—

the primary funding mechanism for Social Security and Medicare—

and said he would be calling for such a cut even if the U.S. were not currently in the midst of a nationwide public health and economic emergency.

“I would love to see a payroll tax cut,”

Trump, who has repeatedly vowed (https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/01/24/more-lies-says-sanders-trump-vows-save-social-security-just-one-day-after) to “save” Social Security, :lol

Trump himself has also backed (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-payroll-analys/trumps-coronavirus-payroll-tax-cut-would-punch-hole-in-social-security-medicare-budgets-idUSKBN20Y351) the idea of permanently cutting the payroll tax in talks with Republican lawmakers.

“The payroll tax cut would be a great thing for this country,” :lol

“I would like to have it regardless of [the coronavirus crisis].”

‘payroll tax holiday’ has nothing to do with helping workers and

everything to do with undermining Social Security.”

gutting Social Security’s dedicated funding as an pretext to demand benefit cuts,”

“If Trump and Republicans retain power after November’s elections, they will

make sure that corporations never repay Social Security,”

“Then, Republicans will use the

reduced trust fund as an excuse to destroy our Social Security system.”

White House is considering proposing a payroll tax cut—

as well as a capital gains tax cut :lol—

as part of an additional coronavirus stimulus package.

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/04/critics-claims-trumps-confession-on-permanent-payroll-tax-cut-is-an-excuse-to-destroy-our-social-security-system/?utm_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=4236&recip_id=298460&list_id=1 (https://www.rawstory.com/2020/04/critics-claims-trumps-confession-on-permanent-payroll-tax-cut-is-an-excuse-to-destroy-our-social-security-system/?utm_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=4236&recip_id=298460&list_id=1)

Never let a crisis go to waste

Repugs, oligarchy whores, are fucking non-oligarchy Americans into unfuckability






The "payroll tax" goes directly into the general fund. There is no "Social Security Fund".

Don't worry Boo...we have given up and accepted Modern Monetary Theory. we will just print money to pay for SS.

[CosmicCowboy]

What sucks is that these banks can be selective in prioritizing who gets the funds. My guess is that their big clients (who will be asking for more $) are going to be in the front of the line while hundreds of smaller business will have to hope there's money left over. Compounding the problem is that Wells Fargo had to cap their loans due to regulations stemming from their fake account ordeal. They're one of the largest small business lenders in the country.

Damn...Bank of America already received 33 billion in applications from 177,000 businesses as of close of day Monday.

[CosmicCowboy]

What sucks is that these banks can be selective in prioritizing who gets the funds. My guess is that their big clients (who will be asking for more $) are going to be in the front of the line while hundreds of smaller business will have to hope there's money left over. Compounding the problem is that Wells Fargo had to cap their loans due to regulations stemming from their fake account ordeal. They're one of the largest small business lenders in the country.

Maybe not. The banks actually make more money processing the smaller ones.

[Winehole23]

Looks like Congress is going to add another 250 Billion to the pot. In two days Frost bank alone has taken over a billion dollars in applications. Minuchin says funding will be within 2-3 weeks of receipt of applcations.We were told there were COVID-19 tests for anyone who wants one a month ago. We're still waiting.

[CosmicCowboy]

We were told there were COVID-19 tests for anyone who wants one a month ago. We're still waiting.

You want to be tested?

[SpursforSix]

Maybe not. The banks actually make more money processing the smaller ones.

Idk...if a bank has a client with a million dollar account, are they really going to put him behind the mom and pops who were already struggling?

[boutons_deux]

testing and seismological analyses are the only ways to have an accurate picture of who doesn't have it, who has it, and who had it.

In the absence of accurate, or even any data, epidemiologists say actuality could be 50x to 100x worse

Safe assumption is that covid-19 will be infecting Ms of Americans for the next couple years, if the less transmissible, less fatal 2009/2010 H1N1 epidemic is any guide

[Trainwreck2100]

You want to be tested?

i want to be tested.

[CosmicCowboy]

i want to be tested.

https://covid19test.quacito.com/

[Trainwreck2100]

https://covid19test.quacito.com/

It says i can't be tested

[CosmicCowboy]

It says i can't be tested

Then you probably don't need to be tested.

[CosmicCowboy]

Some interesting trends here.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

[Xevious]

So these small business loans supposedly will get forgiven, right (as long as they're used for payroll and the like)? But they are still loans, so anything can happen. Are the large bailouts to airlines etc structured as loans also?

[CosmicCowboy]

So these small business loans supposedly will get forgiven, right (as long as they're used for payroll and the like)? But they are still loans, so anything can happen. Are the large bailouts to airlines etc structured as loans also?

The PPP loans have to be meticulously documented as to how the money was spent to be forgiven. I have no idea on the airline loans. I have heard noise about the government taking stock like they did with GM last time.

[Trainwreck2100]

Then you probably don't need to be tested.


i want to be tested.

[Winehole23]

You want to be tested?Just saying things promised soon sometimes take awhile, after POTUS and dutiful (R)s pretend we already got em because a law was signed.

[Winehole23]

You want to be tested?Mass testing plus social tracing is the best way to deal with this. South Korea has had ~11,000 cases and ~1,600 deaths.

South Korea had its first diagnosed case the same day as the USA.

US intelligence started briefing folks about the outbreak in November last year. That info was incorporated into a Presidential Daily Briefing in early January.

[boutons_deux]

oligarchy extracting wealth, in total secrecy, and fuck the law

Secret provision sets up mysterious $450 billion coronavirus bailout fund — with almost no oversight

A last-minute provision tucked into the coronavirus recovery bill allows the Federal Reserve to set up a $450 billion bailout plan with almost no oversight.

The previously unreported provision — which makes the bailout funds exempt from the federal open meetings law

The central bank won’t be required to announce its meetings or

keep most records about discussions about which firms might benefit from the bailout,

although the board would have to record its votes — which could remain out of public view until after the crisis is over.

“We may never know what terms are being given to banks,

what collateral is being offered,

what repayment methods and duties banks and other financial institutions may have,

“This is written too broadly and allows the Federal Reserve to

avoid its responsibilities of public disclosure as the courts have described them.”

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/04/bombshell-secret-provision-sets-up-mysterious-450-billion-coronavirus-bailout-fund-with-almost-no-oversight/ (https://www.rawstory.com/2020/04/bombshell-secret-provision-sets-up-mysterious-450-billion-coronavirus-bailout-fund-with-almost-no-oversight/)

[Winehole23]

Not previously unreported as claimed, but yeah. The no strings corporate bailout boggles as to the scope of money handed out to remake the economy.

[boutons_deux]

money handed out to remake the economy.

The Real Economy is not the objective.

The objective is to bail out, enrich, empower more than ever the wealth-extracting, wealth-hoarding Financial Economy, just as it was in the Banksters Great Depression.

[Thread]

The Real Economy is not the objective.

The objective is to bail out, enrich, empower more than ever the wealth-extracting, wealth-hoarding Financial Economy, just as it was in the Banksters Great Depression.



You missed the [oligarchs,] Bouts!

[CosmicCowboy]

i have to admit, the PPP loans are a pretty sweet deal for the banks. On loans under $350,000 they get paid 5% to process them with zero liability. thats $15,000 to do the paperwork on a $300,000 loan. As an example, by Tuesday morning Bank of America had received 32 billion of loan applications. Assuming they are all approved thats a quick 1.6 Billion of profit.

[boutons_deux]

New survey reveals devastating number of domestic workers have lost work due to pandemic

While unemployment claims have reached record-breaking numbers (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/4/3/1933939/-How-bad-are-this-week-s-record-breaking-unemployment-numbers-One-stunning-graphic-says-it-all) as families everywhere are losing work due to the pandemic,

those numbers don’t include domestic workers,

like Melissa, who are being let go by their clients, sometimes after years of service (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/3/26/1931499/-Domestic-workers-are-being-laid-off-with-little-to-no-financial-assistance-amid-pandemic).

“My job just stopped like that,” the organization of 16,000 Spanish-speaking housekeepers, nannies, and home aides

“80% of respondents with a high volume of work (more than 10 jobs per week)

either had no work for the following week, or

had lost at least half of their jobs for the following week,”

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/4/8/1935491/-New-survey-reveals-devastating-number-of-domestic-workers-have-lost-work-due-to-pandemic?detail=emaildkre

$450B to BigFinance, no strings attached, in total secrecy

[boutons_deux]

https://i.redd.it/a997qx9gp9r41.jpg

[CosmicCowboy]

https://i.redd.it/a997qx9gp9r41.jpg

Boutons, your math is all fucked up there. Fake news

[boutons_deux]

Macho Man, show "your" numbers, or S T F U

[CosmicCowboy]

Macho Man, show "your" numbers, or S T F U

:lmao Bouton's can't do simple math? 320,000,000 X 18,000 = Five Trillion Seven Hundred Sixty Billion.

[boutons_deux]

The Plan Is to Save Capital and Let the People Die

Whether Americans know it or not, their government is not working for them. Their government is working on behalf of capital.

Humans are now a mere second-order, instrumental factor to be considered based on how it affects capital.

if you had an entirely different goal: protecting capital.

What would you do then?

you would prioritize the health of corporate balance sheets, rather than human bodies.

You would keep the healthcare industry, now booming, in private hands;

you would stimulate consumer demand via unemployment benefits,

rather than by keeping workers on existing payrolls,

in order to create an enormous pool of cheap and desperate labor;

you would pursue tax cuts for the investor class;

you would welcome the opportunity to allow debt to pile up on individuals;

and you wouldn’t be too sad about small businesses going bankrupt—they are, after all, just ceding market share to bigger, richer businesses.

You would use this crisis to create a greater, not lesser, concentration of wealth.

You would emerge on the other side with more, not less, inequality.

The truth is, it would be easy.

the U.S. federal government is doing?

It is allowing the unemployment rate to skyrocket, as tens of millions of workers are fired;

it is allowing countless small businesses (https://www.uschamber.com/report/special-report-coronavirus-and-small-business) to go bankrupt (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/03/small-business-lending-program-coronavirus-163333), from incompetence and neglect;

it has not even considered a national suspension of rent,

nor a strong national policy of paid sick leave,

much less a national system of free public healthcare;

as millions of needy people struggle with decrepit and broken (https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article241769146.html) state unemployment systems and

wait weeks or months (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/irs-to-begin-issuing-1200-coronavirus-payments-april-9-but-some-americans-wont-receive-checks-until-september-agency-plan-says/2020/04/02/8e0cfc84-751e-11ea-85cb-8670579b863d_story.html) for their emergency checks to come, and

essential workers are forced to agitate or walk out to gain hazard pay,

the administration plots (https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/04/05/americans-hit-by-economic-shocks-confusion-stumbles-undermine-trumps-stimulus-effort/) a new bill featuring a capital gains tax cut and

“a waiver that would clear businesses of liability from employees who contract the coronavirus on the job.”

In real wars, we have higher taxes on the rich.

This time, we are giving investors a tax cut.

Their government is working on behalf of capital.

Humans are now a mere second-order, instrumental factor

to be considered based on how it affects capital.

capital must be protected and nurtured, and

we must draw resources from our entire society in order to help capital survive,

People can be sacrificed—capital is irreplaceable.

We are navigating our way through this so that capital comes out okay on the other side.

we are choosing this approach, rather than an approach that prioritizes human life.

They will die because we did not dedicate resources before this pandemic to building an adequate system of public health care, and

they will die because we made the decision during this pandemic to put the needs of capital first.

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2020/04/09/plan-save-capital-and-let-people-die (https://www.commondreams.org/views/2020/04/09/plan-save-capital-and-let-people-die)

[boutons_deux]

Kushner Cos. Gets $800 Million Federally Backed Apartment Loan

has received about $800 million in federally backed debt to buy apartments in Maryland and Virginia --

the company’s biggest purchase in a decade.

The loan was issued by Berkadia, a lender co-owned by Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway Inc. and Jefferies Financial Group Inc., in a deal that’s backed by government-owned Freddie Mac,

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-23/kushner-cos-gets-800-million-federally-backed-apartment-loan?fbclid=IwAR1Q52yVl5nUKAyzup98pmcI_x7IpqlkceW2 HX6HFKJQPaf8vNE5BmsUj3o

[CosmicCowboy]

Kushner Cos. Gets $800 Million Federally Backed Apartment Loan

has received about $800 million in federally backed debt to buy apartments in Maryland and Virginia --

the company’s biggest purchase in a decade.

The loan was issued by Berkadia, a lender co-owned by Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway Inc. and Jefferies Financial Group Inc., in a deal that’s backed by government-owned Freddie Mac,

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-23/kushner-cos-gets-800-million-federally-backed-apartment-loan?fbclid=IwAR1Q52yVl5nUKAyzup98pmcI_x7IpqlkceW2 HX6HFKJQPaf8vNE5BmsUj3o



So? They are in the real estate business. It's a legitimate mortgage loan just like when your momma bought the singlewide.

[Winehole23]

So? They are in the real estate business. It's a legitimate mortgage loan just like when your momma bought the singlewide.I'm old enough to remember when avoiding the appearance of a conflict of interest was a political scruple. Normatively observed, you might say.

The conservative talking point for apparent conflicts now seems to be "so what? It isn't illegal or anything."

[Winehole23]

Yanis Varoufakis glosses the EU bailout of Italy as an austerity squeeze

1248352040000118786

[Winehole23]

Sound off: why should we bail out cruise lines but not the USPS?

[Winehole23]

What's the good civics rationale for 86ing the USPS?

1249032058493681664

[ElNono]

What's the good civics rationale for 86ing the USPS?

1249032058493681664

I don't see the founding fathers Constitutional scholars here defending the USPS either, tbh... kinda weird.

[Winehole23]

I don't see the founding fathers Constitutional scholars here defending the USPS either, tbh... kinda weird.It's a two fer: if the USPS.is allowed.to "go out of business", vote by mail becomes impracticable, suppressing turnout in November.

Might also be a great opportunity for politically well connected companies.

[Winehole23]

I don't see the founding fathers Constitutional scholars here defending the USPS either, tbh... kinda weird.The USPS is an anachronism. The Constitution is a living document and needs to change with the times.

[Winehole23]

Interesting article about Andrew Jackson, the USPS and the war against the Bank of the US.


The founding generation of politicians who authored the legislation of 1792 that created the Post Office firmly believed that a healthy republic depended on an informed citizenry, so they subsidized the circulation of newspapers through the mail below cost. Editors and members of Congress, through the franking privilege, could send newspapers through the mail for free. Individuals could mail newspapers for less than two cents.http://werehistory.org/a-vast-political-corporation-the-power-of-the-post-office-in-the-bank-war/

[CosmicCowboy]

Funny this turned into a USPS thread. They could eliminate the junk mail and deliver to everyone once a week with 1/5th the overhead and still be fine. Get the fuck out of package delivery. UPS and FedEx can do just fine on packages. All they are doing is subsidizing amazon to justify their existence.

[ChumpDumper]

Funny this turned into a USPS thread. They could eliminate the junk mail and deliver to everyone once a week with 1/5th the overhead and still be fine. Get the fuck out of package delivery. UPS and FedEx can do just fine on packages. All they are doing is subsidizing amazon to justify their existence.Shit just charge Amazon and everyone else more.

[Winehole23]

Funny this turned into a USPS thread.Hardly anyone wants to.talk about what's likely to be the largest transfer of income and real wealth to the top of the scale -- for the second time in eleven years. (Millenials got wiped.out twice by a once in a lifetime recession.)

There are political reasons for that, but here's a pretty good institutional one:


Three weeks ago, the government passed a giant multi-trillion dollar bailout. Supposedly, it was money for a host of stakeholders, including hospitals, states, Wall Street banks, big business, the unemployed, and small businesses. Today the Federal Reserve built on top of Congress’s framework, announcing yet another multi-trillion dollar set of facilities, on top of what it already put out, to help cities, states, small businesses, main street businesses, and so on and so forth.

So what has happened so far? This is today’s change in stock price of a real estate venture run by one of largest private equity funds in the world.

A thirty five percent jump in a day is… a lot. The reason the stock skyrocketed is because investors believe the new measures from the Federal Reserve will bailout the debt of this private equity fund. There’s a ‘monetary bazooka’ aimed at the economy. And yet there’s a puzzle. If there’s money for the entire economy, why is that normal people and small businesses can’t access unemployment insurance and lending programs? To put it another way, why is the money meant for everyone only showing up in the stock market?

The reason is because money has to travel through institutions, and right now, the institutions for the powerful function well, and those for the rest of us are rickety and broken. So money gets to the rich first. Eventually, some money will get to the rest of us, but in the interim period before that money fully circulates, the wealthy can use their access to money to buy up physical or financial assets.

https://mattstoller.substack.com/p/the-cantillon-effect-why-wall-street

[boutons_deux]

The USPS is an anachronism. The Constitution is a living document and needs to change with the times.

The anti-democratic Constitution is, by the conservative movement, a dead document, archaic, anachronism, fucked up, weaponized, violated in spirit.

Any changes will be blocked by textualists, originalists. The dead Constitution can never (effectively) be changed.

However, the Constitution can be annulled completely by a Article V Convention of the States, which near to being approved by 2/3 of the states.

[Winehole23]

The anti-democratic Constitution is, by the conservative movement, a dead document, archaic, anachronism, fucked up, weaponized, violated in spirit.

Any changes will be blocked by textualists, originalists, that can never (effectively) be changed.

However, the Constitution can be annulled completely by a Article V Convention of the States, which near to being approved by 2/3 of the states.Eh, I doubt strict textualists/originalists really ever existed. Judicial philosophies take a backseat to expediency often enough to create serious doubt about how seriously judges actually take philosophy.

[boutons_deux]

Eh, I doubt strict textualists/originalists really ever existed. Judicial philosophies take a backseat to expediency often enough to create serious doubt about how seriously judges actually take philosophy.

yep, eg the troll Scalia was orginalist/textualist when it suited his politics, his politics overriding any bullshit about the law.

[Winehole23]

Just throwing this out there, other countries have avoided mass unemployment by having the government take over payroll obligations.

Mass unemployment in the USA was a political choice.

[slick'81]

Just throwing this out there, other countries have avoided mass unemployment by having the government take over payroll obligations.

Mass unemployment in the USA was a political choice.


Obviously

[Winehole23]

ObviouslyTo the global work machine, people have no value apart from their economic productivity. The US being indued with this twisted economic ideology worse than anyone, citizens asked not to work by their government are last in line for help; they have joined the ranks of worthless spongers.

[Winehole23]

Funny this turned into a USPS thread.Not bailing out the USPS was so important to Trump he threatened to veto the CARES Act if it directed any money to the post office.

[baseline bum]

Just throwing this out there, other countries have avoided mass unemployment by having the government take over payroll obligations.

Mass unemployment in the USA was a political choice.

Countries like Canada actually give a fuck about the people. In the US only capital matters.

[boutons_deux]

Hardly anyone wants to.talk about what's likely to be the largest transfer of income and real wealth to the top of the scale -- for the second time in eleven years. (Millenials got wiped.out twice by a once in a lifetime recession.)

There are political reasons for that, but here's a pretty good institutional one:
https://mattstoller.substack.com/p/the-cantillon-effect-why-wall-street

Stoller and Bill Black, great writers and popularizers explaining the disaster of Capital fucking non-Capitalists

[boutons_deux]

San Antonio Food Bank Feeds Unprecedented Numbers as Need Surges
https://therivardreport.com/san-antonio-food-bank-feeds-unprecedented-numbers-as-need-surges/

Will there be any help from shitbag Abbott in shithole Texas? From shitbag Trash?

Are there any evangelicals in the Food Bank's enormous queues still believing one is poor because God doesn't like you as a bad person?

Just tithe your money to multi-millionaire grifter teevee pastors and it will be returned "100-fold" :lol

[Winehole23]

Countries like Canada actually give a fuck about the people. In the US only capital matters.I would say people have been endangered, impoverished and made to suffer needlessly by sluggish political leadership and COVID-19 policies grossly inadequate to human needs, but it can't be ruled out the cruelty and indifference to ordinary people are a feature, not a bug. Incompetence and half-assedness of COVID-19 policy couldn't be better designed to keep us fearful, desperate, and dependent on our political and economic masters like never before. Trump wants US citizens to struggle and suffer. It will give the uber-rich yet another chance to acquire wealth and properry at fire sale prices. Also, his base seems to get off on it. That inequality and structural racism are co-morbidities for non-whites sauces the dish.

If US business and political leadership ask us all to take a pay cut and throttle the commons (austerity) at the end of this to bring the USA more in line with global capital requirements ("competitiveness"), nothing would be less surprising.

[boutons_deux]

Just throwing this out there, other countries have avoided mass unemployment by having the government take over payroll obligations.

Mass unemployment in the USA was a political choice.

To keep Labor subservient, enslaved to debt, enslaved to shittty jobs for shitty, Capital disempowers Labor (unions busted), keeps Labor in a state of financial precarity.

What's happening now is what happened in the Banksters Great Depression, Capital is giving Labor an unforgettable lesson about who is The Man, that Labor is powerless, insignificant, expendable.

[Winehole23]

From Barry Ritholtz, a bit of financial advice and a couple of links to help navigate bailout opportunities:


• Will I Get A Check From The US Government, And How? Here’s Everything You Need To Know. (Buzzfeed (https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/sarahmimms/coronavirus-stimulus-checks-1200-qualify))

• 10 Sources of Emergency Cash, Ranked from Best to Worst (Morningstar (https://www.morningstar.com/articles/975122/10-sources-of-emergency-cash-ranked-from-best-to-worst))

• Coronavirus unemployment guide: What to do if you get laid off or furloughed (Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/04/03/unemployed-coronavirus-faq/))

[Winehole23]

Bob Rodriguez thinks price discovery is dead and capital markets are totally manipulated in this brand new era of unlimited QE and MMT.


Since 2013, I have been preparing for an economy of monumental excess, where debt and deficits do not appear to matter, along with Fed and other central bank monetary policies that totally distort the fundamental elements of the Capital Asset Pricing Model. With the events of the past three weeks, the perversion and conversion to a dystopian capital market and economic system is virtually complete.As for me, with the yesterday’s Fed announcement of unlimited QE and its “will buy or support almost anything,” along with the pending passage of a $2-2.5 trillion stimulus package, this is the end of the capital markets as we have known them. We have now entered unlimited QE and MMT where there is no escape. It is the Roach Motel all over again. In Chairman Bernanke‘s 2010 Washington Post op-ed, he argued that QE would lead to a virtuous economic cycle; therefore, the Fed would eventually be able to exit from its QE operations. I argued that once initiated, a reversal would be impossible. It would be like the Roach Motel, “You can check in, but you cannot check out.”

With the initiation of the Fed’s complete takeover and control of the US financial economy, there is now absolutely no accurate pricing discovery in the capital markets and we have entered a period of total manipulation. In light of this, the only markets I have an interest in are those where the heavy hand of government is not involved or only minimally involved. This leads me to rare commodities and collectibles. The public equity and debt markets are now nothing more than greater fool markets that are led by the greatest fools of all, the Fed and the Congress. US capital markets, RIP


Despite my having avoided 100% of the market carnage and also being profitable, I have to shed a tear for the passing of a capital market that has benefitted the real and financial economy so well for decades. In 2008, when I wrote, “Crossing the Rubicon,” I argued we had crossed over into a new economic order and system. Little did I know that within twelve short years this transformation would be virtually complete. We have entered into a far more dangerous environment where normal rules of analytics will likely not apply. When everything is essentially socialized as to risk, a return vs risk evaluation is essentially meaningless since the risk side of the equation has been truncated. Over a period of time which I cannot estimate yet, I will continue my preparation for a far different economic and financial environment. Capital deployment strategies will likely have to change from what has been the norm in the post WW2 environment. We are in a New World Order.https://www.advisorperspectives.com/articles/2020/03/24/preliminary-thoughts-the-new-world-order

[Winehole23]

Private equity is wrecking hospitals and ripping us off for bailout money





In 2017, Cerberus Capital Management, a private equity firm, acquired Easton Hospital, a facility located in Pennsylvania’s Lehigh Valley, north of Philadelphia. Shortly after acquiring the hospital, Cerberus, through its Steward Health Care subsidiary, sold the property (but not the hospital itself) to a real estate investment firm, Medical Properties Trust.

Easton Hospital’s property was packaged with seven other hospitals, which netted Cerberus $304 million. But now Easton Hospital had to pay rent to operate on the land it had owned for the last 127 years.

Although the precise details are not public, it’s also likely that Cerberus saddled Easton Hospital with much of the debt it used to acquire the hospital. Typically, a private equity buyout “includes debt financing in the range of 50 percent to 70 percent of the purchase price, which the acquisition, in this case Easton Hospital, is expected to repay.”

So, for the last few years, Easton Hospital was forced to divert a significant portion of its revenue to paying rent and the debt imposed on it by Cerberus. Not surprisingly, it’s financial condition worsened.

On March 22, as the pandemic shut down much of the nation and put a premium on hospital capacity, Cerberus sent a letter to Pennsylvania Governor Tom Wolf demanding the state assume “all operating expenses and liabilities of Easton Hospital” or the company would “proceed immediately on planning to close the facility.” https://popular.info/p/how-private-equity-is-using-the-pandemic

[leemajors]

I got mine through direct deposit today.

[Winehole23]

I got mine through direct deposit today.It's the quickest way.

[boutons_deux]

another Scalia SHITBAG

Eugene Scalia, Trump's Labor Secretary, comes under fire for making life harder for the unemployed

Scalia slammed for "despicable" efforts to roll back unemployment benefits and paid leave in coronavirus stimulus

From his guidance

rolling back paid leave benefits (https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/04/02/trump-labor-department-accused-quietly-twisting-law-slash-paid-sick-leave-amid) to his attempt to

limit who qualifies (https://twitter.com/pelhamprog/status/1247177539774226435) for beefed up unemployment insurance,

the former corporate lawyer's handling of the new law

favors businesses over people in desperate need of assistance.

"has used his department's authority over new laws enacted by Congress to

limit who qualifies for joblessness assistance and

to make it easier for small businesses not to pay family leave benefits,"

ripped Scalia's "despicable" management of the CARES Act, which temporarily expands relief for the unemployed.

Labor Secretary Eugene Scalia is using his authority to limit who qualifies for assistance," Cohen wrote.

"This is despicable. We are in the midst of a pandemic!"

the Labor Department's lack of urgency in rolling out the benefits and,

Scalia issued guidance earlier this week (https://wdr.doleta.gov/directives/corr_doc.cfm?DOCN=4628) that

aims to "make it more difficult for gig workers such as Uber and Lyft drivers to get benefits."

https://www.salon.com/2020/04/12/eugene-scalia-trumps-labor-secretary-comes-under-fire-for-making-life-harder-for-the-unemployed_partner/ (https://www.salon.com/2020/04/12/eugene-scalia-trumps-labor-secretary-comes-under-fire-for-making-life-harder-for-the-unemployed_partner/)

[Winehole23]

Ironically, hedge funds are designed to employ as few people as possible so star traders don’t have to share millions of dollars in fees. The industry gets its name from the premise it can generate gains even when markets fall.

The question of whether to partake in the program is dividing members of the money management community. Some traders have called it morally corrupt, while others insist they are small businesses -- just like hair salons, restaurants and dry cleaners -- that could use a helping hand after global markets tumbled and cost them money. https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-04-14/hedge-fund-managers-are-claiming-bailouts-as-small-businesses

[boutons_deux]

"Some traders have called it morally corrupt"

so the corrupt, venal, predatory, immoral, unethical, destructive assholes WON'T take the morally corrupt free money? G M A F B

[SpursforSix]

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-04-14/hedge-fund-managers-are-claiming-bailouts-as-small-businesses

What would suck is if the amount of money they have on deposit causes the banks to give them preferential treatment. So this hedge fund is getting bailout $ while a mom and pop has to hope there's some leftover.

[SpursforSix]

And let's not ignore the fact that even businesses that are making $ in this environment are still applying for, and receiving free money.

[Winehole23]

And let's not ignore the fact that even businesses that are making $ in this environment are still applying for, and receiving free money.Per the Cantillon effect, money will flow the quickest and best to those with existing relationships to financial institutions and the government itself.

[Winehole23]

Congress bunkered down til May while Americans struggle to pay rent and bills.

Trump's leadership during the pandemic jas already neen catastrphic; the reluctance of the US Congress to help out is making it worse.

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/2985041001