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View Full Version : Disappointment in JK and JO



RuffnReadyOzStyle
07-15-2003, 04:47 AM
I have to say I'm disappointed, not in our franchise but the star FAs in the NBA... why the hell wouldn't you come to SA?

They should know that no other team has a better young core, nor the twice reigning MVP, a brand new building and practice facility, and a fanatical fan base to rival any franchise in any sport in the country... why wouldn't you want what we have to offer???

Money, ego, a problem with SA being "small". Sheeee-it, man, we're talking NBA rings here!

Anyway, to JK and JO (either of whom would've made us a lock for 2 more champs out of the next 5, at least) - YOU SUCK. I hope neither of you ever get close to a ring. Kidd, you're a kept man. O'Neal, you're an egomaniacal chump.

Out.

Marcus Bryant
07-15-2003, 04:59 AM
Well, there are other concerns besides just basketball. You do also have to factor in loyalty. We were all happy when TD opted to stay in SA...twice now. Brand is the one who, if unrestricted, would have been regarded as the most likely to sign here. Indiana and NJ have done what they can to give JO'Neal and Kidd an opportunity to win. The Clippers have not. I can't fault O'Neal and Kidd for staying.

Whottt
07-15-2003, 05:17 AM
I actually gained respect for Kidd for not leaving. I never really thought he was going too, but the number of people claiming it was a sure thing gave me plenty of reason to second guess that belief.

I would have never accepted or respected Kidd had he come here after losing to us in the finals. If he had left a successful franchise breaking it's back to keep him and in dire need of his talents, no way could I truly respect that. Even though I thought him an ill fit for this team, I respected his competitive spirit enough to doubt he was going to bail and nutride a ring with the Spurs.

I also don't have any animosity towards Kidd for using us..that was our bad..not his. He owed us no loyalty. Our attempts to land him were misguided from the start IMO.

I didn't look at J O'Neal the same way since he isn't in the greatest of situations in Indiana with regards to his teamates and coach. But I never expectd him to come anyway, and don't hold it against him that he didn't come here.

I am kinda glad these guys stayed with their teams even though I would have loved to have had O'Neal..Kidd coming here was a definite no no...That's something Samaki Walker does..not Jason Kidd.


After all, where would we be if DROB had bailed on us for Utah or LA?

RuffnReadyOzStyle
07-16-2003, 11:04 PM
Now I'm adding Elton to this list. Elton, you obviously covet titties and music video clip appearances more than you do NBA rings. Go figure?

DuffMcCartney
07-16-2003, 11:12 PM
We were all happy when TD opted to stay in SA...twice now.

Unlike Tim, JO and JK didnt exactly become free agents when their team was coming off a title...well the first time Tim was only one year removed from a title....and this year he is coming off of one. Loyalty is all good and great, and believe me it would have said more about Tim if the Spurs hadn't come off or been close to a title if he would have left. Loyalty is good, but there are times when winning is more important than loyalty...

Aggie Hoopsfan
07-16-2003, 11:14 PM
Well in fairness to Jermaine there was that little matter of getting paid over 30 million more than we could offer.

It's not that shocking, and I don't think it's fair to criticize them for not leaving when our own MVP did the same.

AHF

DuffMcCartney
07-16-2003, 11:26 PM
It wasn't exactly 30 million, and Tim wasn't going from a 1st round exit to the defending champions.

ducks
07-16-2003, 11:39 PM
I lost respect for kidd.

he used the spurs. others would have known kidd was really never a possiblity. He had the luxury of having oneal sign so quickly. He basically wanted to get what he wanted. he wanted zo his friend to get a 4 year deal no matter if it was not good for the nets

DuffMcCartney
07-16-2003, 11:50 PM
Kidd is and always has been a pussy...I never wanted him on this team and I am glad he didnt come on this team....even with Zo he will be nothing....him, Jermaine, and Elton Brand are gonna end up nothing in the East....no titles....not jack shit.

RuffnReadyOzStyle
07-17-2003, 12:10 AM
Aggie - about the 30mil, that is true, but REALLY, whether you're being paid $80mil or $110mil does it make a difference? I can't believe any of these guys on max salaries would let that affect their decisions. Like you're ever gonna spend a tenth that contract.

baseline bum
07-17-2003, 12:18 AM
Look... I'm a huge Spurs fan and all, but if I was an NBA player and the money was the same between SA and Miami I'd be down on South Beach in a second too. That's about the only place that would make me leave LA.

Aggie Hoopsfan
07-17-2003, 12:18 AM
Guys, we're distorted by the view of the average joe.

For those guys, more money means more toys, and the one with the most toys wins.

Not to mention the ego boost of being a 100 million dollar man vs. an 80 million dollar man.

I know it's comprehend, but that is the life of a superstar athlete.

PS Duff - YES, it was 30 million difference. 82 million possible with SA, he's getting over 120 million with Indy.

AHF

Adrienne18
07-17-2003, 12:21 AM
So this is gonna sound corny, but that's what I like about the state of Texas. There are big cities and all, but none of them have lost their small-town appeal. It's friendlier, more open...but for the majority of NBA players, they'd prefer to be where everything's flashy.

DuffMcCartney
07-17-2003, 12:28 AM
I dont think that sounds corny at all love, but then again I am a bit biased when it comes to what you say.....:spin

But today's NBA is all about being a balla, I guess thats why Tim is seen as so boring cause he's not flashy at all. But I guess for simple men like me, he is great....cause I'm a simple man.

Dunkel Weizen
07-17-2003, 12:35 AM
There are big cities and all, but none of them have lost their small-town appeal.Do what? What's "small-town" about Houston or Dallas? If they're small towns, then so are San Diego, Phoenix, Denver, KC, St. Louis, Indianapolis, Atlanta, Charlotte, and Portland.

MadeFromDust
07-17-2003, 08:30 PM
I wholeheartedly agree, Ruff. I was just telling a friend yesterday that I lost respect for Kidd and JO because of their decisions.

adidas11
07-17-2003, 08:38 PM
MadeFromDust, you're just pissed because they didn't come to San Antonio.

Let me ask this question, to put it in perspective:

What if the LAKERS were the defending champs, with tons of capspace to spend on superstar FAs, and they approached players like Jason Kidd and/or Jermaine O'neal? Would you homers be bitching and complaining about why those FA's didn't want to go to a team with an AWESOME winning tradition, and the two best players in the NBA? Please answer me that!

RuffnReadyOzStyle
07-17-2003, 09:03 PM
Adidas - that's a stupid hypothetical because the Lakers already have two superstar FAs (where the Spurs need a second star), and in fact what you're describing has just happened in a way with the Malone/Payton thing. I'm not bitching about their decision - it makes sense to me from their side (sacrifice cash for a good shot at the Ring).

What doesn't make sense is JK/JO/EB turning down what SA has to offer - Tim Duncan, a core of excellent youth, state-of-the-art facilities, rabid fans, a chance to build a DYNASTY. Instead JO chose first-round-and-out Indy, Kidd stayed with the team that just LOST the championship and EB chose titties and 2LiveCrew music videos.

They could come to SA, dominate their profession and become adored by a town that loves their team like no other, or they could do what they did. It still surprises me.

America underrates San Antonio terribly. It's a great place but no-one except those who live there seem to know.

Bounce580
07-17-2003, 09:20 PM
Actually Adidas' hypothetical was dead on. You're pissed because they didn't come to play for YOUR team. Period.

Like it or not, Indiana is a damn good team. They're young and talented as hell. They think they have a chance to win a ring. New Jersey thinks they have a chance to win a ring. Just because you don't doesn't mean a damn thing.

RuffnReadyOzStyle
07-17-2003, 09:34 PM
Okay, and just ignore the chance to play with TIM DUNCAN (and a burgeoning young core) and set up a DYNASTY. Any player who puts winning rings first wouldn't pass on that opportunity. It's clear to me that JK/JO/EB don't put rings first.

And no, the hypothetical is off because SA has ONE star who needs a complementary star, whereas LA already has 2 stars. Those are highly divergent situations.

MadeFromDust
07-17-2003, 09:44 PM
Preach it, Ruff! :smokin2

adidas11
07-17-2003, 11:02 PM
It makes perfect sense for those players to stay with their original teams, if they so choose. Maybe for J'Oneal, he likes playing in Indiana, likes his teammates, and likes the future for his team. Maybe for Kidd, he likes having his family in New Jersey, likes his teammates, and likes his chances for winning a ring. And so what if they don't win one??? Maybe they like the challenge of helping their current franchise achieve the ring.

Thank goodness for the Spurs that Tim Duncan didn't go to Orlando to join Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady, because of the mindset that he shouldn't have loyalty to his own team, and he should only go to play with other superstars. Thank goodness that Michael Jordan didn't go to play for the Pistons in the early 90s, because his Bulls team couldn't get past them initially.

Quit acting like San Antonio is the only good team in the league, and that playing next to Tim Duncan should be the aspiration of every star player in the league. You homers make me sick.

Admiral
07-18-2003, 12:49 AM
Yeah adidas, that's what ticked me off about DizzG and the other homers two years ago. They kept talking about how free agents would be lining up to play with Duncan. On top of that, we had a new practice facility, new arena, great fans, etc. I think it's much more than just basketball for a lot of these guys. Heck, if I were a free agent I would explore my options first, and I'm a huge Spurs fan!

I don't think it's that potential free agents find something WRONG with San Antonio, nearly as much as they find something RIGHT about their current situations. Kidd sees a golden opportunity to reach the Finals every year, and with the addition of Mourning, he is probably thinking that they will possibly get over that hump in 2003-2004. Jermaine O'Neal saw his team be among the best in the East all year, and they have an awesome core of young talent. He probably has a bad taste in his mouth from the disappointing end to their season and wants to redeem himself. From what I hear, he also likes the city of Indianapolis itself. After all, they are the ones who believed in him enough to get him out of Portland to take a chance on him. That has to mean something, especially since he was buried on Portland's bench at times.

I wish more free agents had been interested in us as well, but we did our best and those guys made the decision that was best for them. That's life when you put all of your eggs in one basket, cross your fingers, and leave it up to other people to dictate your future.

RuffnReadyOzStyle
07-18-2003, 12:55 AM
Don't call me a homer adidas because I'm not and never have been. I'm realistic about the Spurs and my record at SR and here shows it. You should know better.

Don't you get it? Tim won a ring with a bunch of emerging diaper dandies and a few geriatrics, his team has $16mil to spend, the best facilities in the NBA and a city full of fanatical fans, and none of the top guys want to play with him????? Sorry??? Is it hard to understand why I'm miffed? Any of JK/JO/EB come here and we are a conference finalist at least for the next 5 years... but no, no player wants that! Put yourself in spurs fan shoes and tell me you don't find it all a bit odd.

I have a feeling Jason was talked out of SA by Joumana and her media career (rememeber, with taxes he's losing money staying there!), Jermaine didn't want to be the second best big man an the team (or face the West's powerhouse of big men and risk not being an all-star), and Elton needs to get laid... really, Elton has no excuse. He would compliment Tim PERFECTLY. Go farkin figure.

adidas11
07-18-2003, 02:35 AM
It's true Admiral, and you know better than anyone. Ever since I started posting on the SR board, we would hear from DizzG how Kidd was a lock to come to San Antonio, that either he or J O'neal would never turn down the opportunity to play with Duncan, how San Antonio and their new stadium, and etc would be the beacon for any superstar. You, myself, Ghost, and others warned them that such a strategy was risky at best, and that the Spurs were putting their fate in other's hands. And look at the outcome. Rasho. And not that he isn't a bad player, but I don't think Rasho is what DizzG and others had in mind two years ago.

Ruff, I understand you being a little miffed at the situation. But calling out those players is improper, in my opinion. I mean, you didn't see other superstars running to join Magic Johnson or Larry Bird in the mid 1980s, did you? You didn't see other superstars running to join Jordan in the 1990s, did you? So why would Jason Kidd and J O'neal all of the sudden run to San Antonio, just because Tim Duncan is there? Maybe those players like the challege of winning a title, while they're the focal point of the team. So I'm just a little sick and tired of reading "well, if they were really about winning, then they would come to play for San Antonio" and whatnot. And just because a player decides he wants to play in the Eastern Conference, doesn't mean he's a loser!!! Heck, you don't hear me complaining that other FA's have turned down the Lakers in the past, even though they have established themselves as a dynasty. Of course, Malone and Payton are now the exception, but they're hardly superstars by any stretch of the imagination anymore.

RuffnReadyOzStyle
07-18-2003, 03:29 AM
Fair enough adidas, but I still think that if "winning is my number one priority" as all these guys say it is, then not joining TD in SA is opposed to that philosophy.

TD + JK/JO/EB (backed up by the young core) = rings IMHO. Maybe not next season, but in a 5 season sample I see at least 2 rings if Tim has one of those guys next to him. I still think we're contenders, esp. if TP finds consistency and/or Manu goes up another level (which WILL happen), but JK/JO/EB make us favourites... well, would have anyway. :(

EB is the worst of those 3 - why the hell would you choose the Heat over the Spurs?

Not happy, Jan (for all the Aussies...).

MadeFromDust
07-18-2003, 12:01 PM
Kidd was on TBDSSP and said it was tough to turn down the Spurs because of Tim Duncan and the coach. He also said "If I was gonna go anywhere in the West, it would have been the Spurs, but unfortunately, I signed with the Nets." :lol

And I don't know what's up with addidas, but there's nothing wrong with Ruff's takes on this matter. He said he's disappointed with Kidd and O'neal. What's wrong with being honest concerning the team(Spurs) you back? He thinks they made poor decisions and made themselves hypocrites for saying they were all about championships, yet turned down coming to the NBA Champions Spurs. And :lol about Indiana winning a championship. Are they really considering trading Al Harrington for Charlie Ward? :lol And New Jersey is the NBA's version of the Buffalo Bills.

Bounce580
07-18-2003, 12:17 PM
TD + JK/JO/EB (backed up by the young core) = rings IMHO. Maybe not next season, but in a 5 season sample I see at least 2 rings if Tim has one of those guys next to him. I still think we're contenders, esp. if TP finds consistency and/or Manu goes up another level (which WILL happen), but JK/JO/EB make us favourites... well, would have anyway.

That's the thing. Not one thing you said in there is a fact. Those are all your opinions. Adding Jermaine O'Neal doesn't guarantee a ring, nor does adding Kidd. There could be chemistry issues. There could be any number of reasons it doesn't work out. They did what was best for them.

Indiana and New Jersey have just as good a chance to win the East, as San Antonio does to win the West. And getting past a Western team in the finals isn't completely out of the question. It's not as huge a gap as a lot of you think between the conferences.


Tim won a ring with a bunch of emerging diaper dandies and a few geriatrics, his team has $16mil to spend, the best facilities in the NBA and a city full of fanatical fans, and none of the top guys want to play with him?????

I take it you've never seen Indiana's arena, or their fans. Not to mention they also paid him $122 million.