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Aggie Hoopsfan
07-17-2003, 01:01 AM
Sounds as though SA radio has emerged with a rumor that SA, Philly, and NY are discussing a three-way trade, principles being:

Van Horn (13.2 million) to NY
Spree (13.5 mil) to SA

Also reportedly a part of the deal is that Speedy will be S&T to NY (call it 5 mil)

And that another Spur, either SJax or Rose, will be dealt. In the case of Rose being dealt, NY would send back Kurt Thomas (he and Rose's salaries are virtual matches).

Thoughts? Confirmations? I admit details are kind of sketchy but I wanted to throw this out there and see what people think/have heard elsewhere.

AHF

ALSPURS
07-17-2003, 01:02 AM
where did you hear it from?

RuffnReadyOzStyle
07-17-2003, 01:04 AM
Hmmm, my first impression is "nooooooo!", but if getting Spree would give us a shot at FAs next year (when does his contract end?), then okay. Otherwise, why do we want to clog our SG rotation??? And Spree's not what he once was...

baseline bum
07-17-2003, 01:04 AM
Sprewell would really help the team, and Kurt Thomas would be an awesome pickup if we lost Malik. Sounds way too good to be true, so I'll assume it's not.

ALSPURS
07-17-2003, 01:06 AM
Add Spree if you can....


Parker
Manu
Spree
TD
RASHO


That lineup can match anyone in the NBA .

Aggie Hoopsfan
07-17-2003, 01:12 AM
baseline:

Some of it seems to fit:

NY wants to dump Spree, and reportedly Kurt as well.

Layden is reportedly enamored with KVH and Speedy (and Malik would give them an east coast boy, or Philly one of its sons back).

Philly is looking to move Van Horn and they just signed Kenny Thomas today to a deal that puts them up towards the lux. tax (mid-50s with their draft picks and bench fillers still to go).
And their ownership reportedly wants no part of the lux tax.

For SA, you could go back to the fact that SA has considered Spree, and Pop is enamored with him. When we were jettisoning cap room for this summer, we wanted no part of a Spree deal. But now that FA03 is a bust? Why not.

My guess is that Bowen or SJax would be sent out, because if not we'd have too much clutter on the wing. We essentially lose our cap space after this year anyway, so not grab Spree?

This deal would also fit into future plans for Manu and TPark in my opinion:

After 04-05 Spree would come off the books (and his 14 mil salary), and if the trade is for Thomas then that's another 6 million off the books as his salary expires at the same time.

That would be the same summer TP is up for a new contract, and in the case of Manu next summer we could give him a deal with a player opt-out clause for after 04-05, and then have his full bird rights to re-sign him.

I'll agree this deal seems too perfect, but there does seem to be some legs to the Knicks and Spurs talking (courtesy ESPN today) about Spree, so maybe this is the new plan?

I dunno, like I said, it was discussed in chat and people were clamoring for more details and talk, so I figured I'd get it out there for discussion.

AHF

baseline bum
07-17-2003, 01:12 AM
No way... you start Spree at the 2 (his natural position), Manu backs he and TP up, and Jax backs Bruce up.

DeSPURado
07-17-2003, 01:15 AM
This is what I have been begging for since Jason Kidd turned us down. Give me Kurt Thomas and Sprewell and I will be sooo friggin happy. Claxton, Rose, Rasho, Jax and/or Bowen are all expendable to make a trade like this happen.

baseline bum
07-17-2003, 01:16 AM
I don't move Bowen in that scenario. No way Spree can guard Kobe, and Manu can't either. Jax would have to agree to be traded, which I don't see.

Aggie Hoopsfan
07-17-2003, 01:18 AM
Good point on Jax baseline,

Perhaps that's why Kurt and Malik's names were thrown into the mix.

AHF

DeSPURado
07-17-2003, 01:18 AM
Jax would be willing to be traded if he is told Manu will be taking his starting position this year, which alot of people already wanted last year!

Coolidge
07-17-2003, 01:24 AM
The Spurs would have to send out a salary in addition to Claxton. Man I would hate to see Rose go. This is a tough call because Spree is the exact type of perimeter scorer the Spurs need to complement Duncan but Rose gives the Spurs what they need off the bench and is a vital component of the Spurs' success. Now with Nesterovic coming on board the primary backup PF/C is going to be more important than ever. KThomas would help to alleviate some concerns but it will take a while for him to get up to speed and he cannot play perimeter D like Malik has been able to. Two years ago the Spurs make this deal but today the answer is not that clear cut.

The Spurs make this deal if they are worried about making a splash this offseason but for the long term Rose will be an important anchor...especially through Duncan's prime.

It will be interesting to see what Pop does.

DeSPURado
07-17-2003, 01:28 AM
Good analysis Coolidge. There are a lot of questions about Kurt Thomas as a backup and we'd miss Malik alot. So it would be better if Thomas and 'Lik were left out of the deal, but it might be a sacrifice that needs to be made.

Dunkel Weizen
07-17-2003, 01:33 AM
Why would the Spurs make a short-term move like this? For the sake of doing it?

Bounce580
07-17-2003, 01:35 AM
So we can sign a max FA in '05. Can you imagine a max FA teamed up with Tim Duncan!?! We'd be a dyna....

picnroll
07-17-2003, 01:36 AM
Spree has shot .400 from the field the last two year.

scott
07-17-2003, 01:38 AM
Why would the Knicks want Rose in exchange for Thomas? If the Knicks are looking for cap relief- they sure aren't going to get any by trading Thomas' 2 years remaining for Rose's 6.

Their production is similar (when you adjust for Rose being a bench player and Thomas being a starter), but the Knicks are already filled with too many undersized PFs to be trading the 6'9" Thomas for the 6'5" Rose.

That part of the deal doesn't make any sense to me, leading me to believe its probably BS.

junglespur
07-17-2003, 01:39 AM
I agree about 'Lik and Thomas being left out of the deal. In fact, I can't see why the Knicks would want that part of the deal -- Thomas had a strong year and fits into their system better than Malik would. Thomas: 14Pts/8Rebs/1.2Blk; Malik: 10Pts/6Rebs/0.5Blk.

My worry would be that Philly demands Malik as part of their haul (in addition to Speedy). Given their gap up front (even with Kenny Thomas resigned) and Malik's Philly roots, this may well be their objective...

As Coolidge pointed out, losing Malik would be a big blow to us. It would really make getting Horry a priority. Alternately (or in addition), I'd figure out how to buy out Scola's contract and get him up here ASAP.

bugramps
07-17-2003, 01:43 AM
What max free agents will be available come '05?

Aggie Hoopsfan
07-17-2003, 01:50 AM
I think Malik would be more likely to end up in Philly in any deal.

I'm not sure why, but Thomas is reportedly on the block for NY, that's why him being rumored in the deal fit in my mind.

AHF

Aggie Hoopsfan
07-17-2003, 01:52 AM
As for free agents in '05, as I said:

1. TP will be up for a new contract (and we'll have full bird rights)

2. Assuming the plan is to give Manu a deal next year that allows him to opt out after one year when we have his Full Bird Rights, we'll also be looking at a new deal for him in '05.


This is also why bringing in both Thomas and Spree makes sense to me - that'd be 20 million coming off the books in '05 between those two.

AHF

gospurs21
07-17-2003, 02:04 AM
hasn't anyone learned their lesson. GW this should make you happy. There is no reason to believe we can get a high profile star FA in 03, 04 , 05 or any other fucking year.

Sprewell for 13M+ for next two years...NO FUCKING THANKS

Take off the STAR googles. We don't need this guy, we have Jax and Manu. You don't trade quality youth for aging vet. Sprewell is not a top 20 player, he is only paid like one.

Go Spurs...

Coolidge
07-17-2003, 02:04 AM
Thomas can put up Rose's #s but the concern is can he be as versatile as Rose? Rose can play physical but he can also thrive in a open court finesse game. Dammit I would hope that Philly has a trade exception or something to absorb that $1.5 mil of Spree's salary the Spurs can't so that the Spurs wouldn't have to send out anyone currently under contract.

MissAllThat
07-17-2003, 02:07 AM
I wonder what PJ thinks of all this....

MannyIsGod
07-17-2003, 02:13 AM
I thin its funny that people bitch about how much an athelete makes over a year, do Y OU write the checks?

I don't care if spree is overpriced, this isn't a bad deal, he'd help.

I don't mind it as long as we retain bowen.

Aggie Hoopsfan
07-17-2003, 02:23 AM
Parker
Manu
Spree
Tim
Rasho

Yeah, that line up would suck...


for LA.

AHF

junglespur
07-17-2003, 02:59 AM
the Knicks remain interested in a deal with the San Antonio Spurs, with Manu Ginóbili as the main component, two league officials said.

The problem is matching salaries. After signing Rasho Nesterovic, the Spurs have about $8 million in salary-cap space. If the Knicks try to include Sprewell, who will earn $13.5 million next season, they must take back someone in addition to Ginóbili, who will make $1.5 million in the final year of his contract.

more fuel to the fire ...

IMO, this speculation is way off. No way Pop and RC deal away Manu (major young talent and difference-maker) for Spree (past his best years, huge contract Knicks need to get rid of). The three-way deal including Van Horn and Philly (that does not include Manu) makes much more sense from the Spurs standpoint...


--------------------

Link (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/17/sports/basketball/17knicks.html)

July 17, 2003
Knicks Have Van Horn on Their Radar Screen
By STEVE POPPER


OSTON, July 16 - While news conferences were held around the N.B.A. today on the first signing day for free agents, the Knicks' executives remained holed up here at the Reebok Pro Summer League working the telephones, trying to find a way to improve their team.

With only the $4.9 million midlevel salary-cap exception to use for a free agent and the pool of impact players drying up quickly, the Knicks have pushed forward with their efforts to make a trade. One league official said today that the Knicks remained in the chase for Philadelphia forward Keith Van Horn, although the 76ers' general manager, Billy King, denied that Van Horn was on the market.

Van Horn, a former Net, struggled at times with the 76ers last season, showing the same inconsistency and lack of aggressiveness he displayed in New Jersey. After averaging 15.9 points and 7.1 rebounds in the regular season, Van Horn averaged only 7.8 points in the Eastern Conference semifinals against Detroit.

The Knicks tried to acquire Van Horn at the trading deadline in February, when they were shopping Latrell Sprewell. According to the league official, the 76ers are not interested in Sprewell but could be enticed with a package that included Charlie Ward and Kurt Thomas.

Ward is in the final year of a contract that will pay him $6 million next season, but he can also be bought out for $2 million until Jan. 1. Kurt Thomas, while averaging numbers similar to Van Horn's (14 points and 7.9 rebounds), is due to earn $5.4 million next season and has a $5.9 million team option for 2004-5.

Van Horn will earn $13.3 million next season; his deal then has two more years totaling $30.2 million.

"We'll continue to work, and we're not going to rest the phones or communication in the league to try and make the team better," Knicks General Manager Scott Layden said. "I feel good about the team, I feel good about the depth and we're going to continue to make the team better. That's where we are."

Van Horn is not the only player the Knicks have singled out. While their efforts to add a center have come up empty, the Knicks remain interested in a deal with the San Antonio Spurs, with Manu Ginóbili as the main component, two league officials said.

The problem is matching salaries. After signing Rasho Nesterovic, the Spurs have about $8 million in salary-cap space. If the Knicks try to include Sprewell, who will earn $13.5 million next season, they must take back someone in addition to Ginóbili, who will make $1.5 million in the final year of his contract.

The Knicks, who lost out on Nesterovic to the Spurs, had little interest in center Michael Olowokandi, who agreed to a deal with Minnesota. The other free-agent center who did pique the Knicks' interest, Indiana's Brad Miller, may be out of their reach.

If the Knicks hope to showcase any of their young players, performances in the summer league today by point guard Frank Williams and the frontcourt player Maciej Lampe, could help. The Knicks' first-round pick this year, Mike Sweetney, cannot be traded until Dec. 15, but Williams, last year's first-rounder, and Lampe, a second-round pick this year who is unsigned, can be traded.

Williams scored 35 points in a triple-overtime victory over the Dallas Mavericks, and Lampe added 20.

Aggie Hoopsfan
07-17-2003, 03:12 AM
Not to mention they also have our cap figure messed up.

I don't think talks would be continuing with Manu as the key component, the Spurs would have walked away from that already.

Manu's name was in the initial report this morning, but I bet if they're still talking the names (at least on SA's side) have changed.

AHF

MannyIsGod
07-17-2003, 03:32 AM
Don't journalists do research anymore?

RC said flat out, manu will not be traded.

They also have the cap wrong by good third, how are they so stupid?

Shaq H8ter
07-17-2003, 03:40 AM
No one touches Manu!
Malik maybe...
Speedy S&T yes...
Manu no!

KoriEllis
07-17-2003, 04:05 AM
This thread confused me.

So, is the rumor ...

Spree to SA
Van Horn to NY
Speedy to NY
Jack or Malik to Phi (and if it's Malik, then Thomas to SA)

???

Is that correct?

SlayerMin
07-17-2003, 04:20 AM
Who is this Steve Popper guy?

I can't believe that RC and POP would even consider trading Ginobili.

Aggie Hoopsfan
07-17-2003, 04:24 AM
Kori,

That looks right.

AHF

T Park Num 9
07-17-2003, 04:58 AM
I dont like sending out young developing guards to get one on the back end of his career.

Malik for Kurt Thomas?? Yeah Id do that.

Jack or Manu for Spree??
No thanks.

Manu IMO will be just as good as Spree, hes got the showings of a good defender and a developing outside shot.

IMO Manu and Jack are too young, too raw, and too gifted to give up on after 1 year.

timvp
07-17-2003, 05:31 AM
I wouldn't want to trade KThomas for Rose. Rose is a key off the bench and KThomas is one turn of an ankle away from retirement (he had Zydrunas like foot trouble early in his career).

Sprewell is Pop's all-time favorite player. Eventually he'll be a Spur. In this scenario, it looks like you'd have to give up either Jack, Bowen or Rose to get him. I'm not 100% sold that he's better than any of those guys.

He's 32 years old and last year he had his worst season as a pro. He averaged 16.4 points and only shot 40.2% from the field. He's also slowed down on the defensive end and can't bring it on that side of the ball like he used to.

I wouldn't love this trade, but if the Spurs think they need more perimeter scoring ... then you do this trade. That's what it comes down to.

NCaliSpurs
07-17-2003, 11:33 AM
Guys, guys, guys.

From today's ludden article:


The Spurs first discussed a possible three-team deal with Philadelphia and New York that would bring Sprewell to San Antonio around the trade deadline in February, but tabled those talks because they didn't want to prematurely compromise their cap room.

We have to preserve our precious cap room.

Geez louis. Our guys need to learn when enough is enough. We couldn't get nobody. All the good players have signed. Are we really trying for a lamar odom or Arenas? I don't think so.

Maybe we are saving the capspace for pippen and horry.

:vomit

MannyIsGod
07-17-2003, 11:37 AM
You did read that right?

That was in the middle of our title run, in FEBRUARY.

CosmicCowboyXXX
07-17-2003, 11:48 AM
Off the top of my head I don't think the numbers work on that trade...just to get Spreewell we would need to send out about 7 million in salaries after Speedy...Malik is BY2 so to make any deal for Spree work we would have to send out at least Malik and Manu or Bowen...that would be crazy...

Ghost Writer
07-17-2003, 11:58 AM
I would love to have Sprewell and Kurt Thomas on the Spurs.


:cooldevil

kohai
07-17-2003, 11:59 AM
I read this with interest and only have one comment:

NO MANU IN THIS TRADE.

NCaliSpurs
07-17-2003, 12:00 PM
You did read that right?

That was in the middle of our title run, in FEBRUARY.


That is too funny. My bad.

:lol

picnroll
07-17-2003, 12:28 PM
link to article (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/101428p-91808c.html)
Horn won't come for Spree

But Kurt, Charlie could go to Sixers

By FRANK ISOLA
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER


The Knicks are hoping to land Keith Van Horn.

BOSTON — The Knicks and Sixers have resurrected talks for a trade that would include Keith Van Horn but not Latrell Sprewell.
Officials from both teams have met face-to-face over the last two days here at the Reebok Summer League, and according to an NBA source, the discussions have centered upon a deal that would include sending Kurt Thomas and Charlie Ward to Philadelphia for Van Horn.

The Sixers do not have much interest in Sprewell, whom the Knicks are trying desperately to trade. Last summer, Thomas, Ward and Travis Knight were nearly sent to Philadelphia in a deal for Dikembe Mutombo, but the Knicks turned it down. Days later, Mutombo was traded to New Jersey for Van Horn and Todd MacCulloch.

"We've spoken to the Knicks a few times," said Sixers GM Billy King. "But I talk to everybody."

King met with Knicks president Scott Layden and Steve Mills, the Garden president of sports operations, for 10 minutes during halftime of the Sixers-Wizards summer league game. Layden and King had an informal discussion on Tuesday.

Both Layden and head coach Don Chaney have liked Van Horn for years. Layden has refused to comment on potential trades or free agent signings. But it is clear the Knicks feel a sense of urgency to get something done.

On a day that Clippers free agent center Michael Olowokandi signed with the Timberwolves, the Knicks were scrambling to find a center. The best available big man on the free-agent market is Indiana's Brad Miller, who is expected to re-sign with the Pacers. The Knicks' only chance of getting Miller would be in a sign and trade, which appears unlikely.

The Knicks were never in the running for Olowokandi, who signed for the mid-level exception of $4.91 million. The Knicks would have offered the same deal, but people in the organization raised concerned about Olowokandi's work ethic.

"We had entertained the idea of maybe meeting with him but we had some doubts about him," Chaney said. "It didn't surprise me what he signed for."

There is a theory that once Olowokandi is free from the Clippers he will emerge as a quality center in a league where such players are at a premium. Minnesota GM Kevin McHale, who lost Rasho Nesterovic to San Antonio one day earlier, believes his club can turn around Olowokandi's career.

If so, the Knicks will have to explain why they never made an attempt to land Olowokandi. Most of the big-name free agents have signed while the Knicks have been shut out.

Mills dismissed the notion that free agents no longer consider the Knicks a viable option because the team has experienced two straight losing seasons.

"I still think this is a place where players want to play," Mills said.

Sprewell, for one, has said repeatedly that his goal is to remain with the Knicks. However, Layden is exploring every trade possibility without much luck.

The Knicks are still hoping to work out a deal with San Antonio for Manu Ginobili. Portland and Dallas may be the only teams willing to take on Sprewell's bloated contract, which has two years and $28 million left on it.

"Latrell's status hasn't changed," Chaney said. "I would love to have him here, but when you're looking to improve your team you have to listen to what is out there. This is a business. Latrell knows that."

MrCarmenE
07-17-2003, 12:29 PM
Thursday, July 17, 2003

By AL IANNAZZONE
STAFF WRITER



The Knicks are having serious conversations with the Sixers about Keith Van Horn, but Latrell Sprewell has not been mentioned in the talks.

According to at least two NBA sources, Philadelphia is not interested in Sprewell. The deal likely includes Kurt Thomas and Charlie Ward. Another player might be added to match up salaries. Van Horn, a former Net, makes $13.3 million this season. Thomas and Ward earn $11.4 million combined.

The Knicks tried to acquire the 6-foot-10 Van Horn before February's trading deadline, but were unsuccessful.

Knicks' general manager Scott Layden and Steve Mills, the president of Garden sports team operations, met with Sixers' GM Billy King for 10 minutes Wednesday afternoon at the Boston Pro Summer League.

This is the second straight summer the Knicks and the Sixers are trying to make a deal. Last summer, Thomas was involved in a deal that would have sent Dikembe Mutombo to the Knicks. But owner James Dolan didn't want Mutombo's contract. The Nets acquired Mutombo for Todd MacCulloch and Van Horn.

The Knicks also have been talking to the Spurs about a Sprewell-for-Manu Ginobili and Malik Rose swap. Their salaries don't equal Sprewell's $13.5 million, but the Spurs are about $9 million under the cap even after signing center Rasho Nesterovic, so they could make up the difference.

New York was shut out the first day free agents were allowed to sign with teams. The Knicks lost Nesterovic, who they offered the $4.92 midlevel exception, and Michael Olowokandi to the Timberwolves. The Knicks wanted to meet with Olowokandi before they made any offers, but Minnesota signed him to a three-year deal for the midlevel exception.

The Knicks have interest in Pacers' All-Star center Brad Miller, but they would have to do a sign-and-trade to get him. Denver, Memphis, and Boston are believed to be the front-runners for Miller's services if he doesn't re-sign with Indiana.

www.northjersey.com/page....FlZUVFeXk2 (http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMjYmZmdi ZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY0MDM2MzImeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZU VFeXk2)

Coolidge
07-17-2003, 12:48 PM
The Spurs have $12 million in cap room, give or take a few hundred thousand. It's certainly not $8 million. They would still have to send out a contract.

Solid D
07-17-2003, 12:49 PM
This would be a bad trade - Manu and Rose for Sprewell - no way in the world.

Manu and Malik were big difference-makers in the title run...especially Manu.

His hustle plays, steals, unpredictable moves whenever he was lucky enough to get the ball passed to him, made him THE X-factor in most of the Spurs playoff games...especially late in games.

Ghost Writer
07-17-2003, 12:52 PM
I agree, Solid D. I bete Manu would put up comprable numbers than Sprewell next season if given the same amount of minutes.


:cooldevil

2Cleva
07-17-2003, 12:54 PM
You guys think Ginobili could be a 18-20 ppg scorer?

If Spree is a guy Duncan wants, SA pulls the trigger. He may like Ginobili but he said he liked Parker too but was willing to walk over him to get to Kidd.

Coolidge
07-17-2003, 12:59 PM
SA will not move Ginobili for Sprewell. They would move Rose if they could get a decent replacement like a Kurt Thomas.

The Spurs were willing to acquire Kidd but not with giving up Parker for him. They might've moved Parker to shape the team around Kidd but they weren't just going to give Parker away.

Based on the articles in this thread the Spurs are cool to this idea now.

baseline bum
07-17-2003, 01:02 PM
Manu and Rose for Spree? LMAO! I wouldn't trade either of them for Latrell. I love Spree, but he's one dimensional now. His D has fallen way off and he's now a scorer and that's it.

Ed Helicopter Jones
07-17-2003, 01:17 PM
Spree's best days are behind him, Manu's best days are ahead of him.

Not a trade you make if you're San Antonio.

T Park Num 9
07-17-2003, 01:17 PM
2 cleva are you totally retarded?

Duncan will only want to get rid of any of his guys to UPGRADe at that position.


Spreewell would not be an upgrade over Manu ginobili. PERIOD!

kohai
07-17-2003, 01:18 PM
You guys think Ginobili could be a 18-20 ppg scorer?

On a bad team, with the ball in his hands a LOT, much like Spree over his career? YOU BET. Probably not here though, and I think even Spree would struggle to put up more than 15 points in this offense.

NCaliSpurs
07-17-2003, 01:22 PM
You guys think Ginobili could be a 18-20 ppg scorer?

He and Parker can definitely get these types of numbers. It is just a matter of taking shots. SJax could probably get these types of numbers too. But if these 3 players are jacking up a bunch of shots, does our team get better? I don't think so.

Sprewell is a 40% shooter. We might do better without him.

Aggie Hoopsfan
07-17-2003, 01:27 PM
Man, I will say this - if Memphis, Boston, or Denver end up with Brad Miller I will be angry.

AHF

T Park Num 9
07-17-2003, 01:42 PM
sorry

Brad Miller???

The same guy you guys said would be a waste of money on this team?

The Spurs sign an improving young center and now all of a sudden hes a plan A guy??

God.....

Aggie Hoopsfan
07-17-2003, 01:45 PM
You do realize that if he goes to one of those teams it will be roughly for the same amount of money that we signed Rasho for?

AHF

NCaliSpurs
07-17-2003, 01:45 PM
Brad Miller sucks. He is way overrated.

I think Rasho would take his place as All-Star center, if he played in the east.

Rasho >>> B. Miller.

Shaq H8ter
07-17-2003, 02:01 PM
The Knicks are dreaming!!

:elephant
- :sleep <------ Knicks

Admiral
07-17-2003, 02:03 PM
I would've much rather spent the amount Minnesota did on Olowokandi than we spent on Rasho, but oh well. That's another issue.

As for this trade, I don't like it. I would really like to have Sprewell, but not for Manu. I doubt the Spurs would even consider such a deal that involves Malik. Pop's love for Malik is probably even greater than his love for Sprewell.

If we obtain Kurt Thomas, though, I would rather start him at center than Rasho.

T Park Num 9
07-17-2003, 02:07 PM
yeah admiral lets start a pf next to Duncan

cause after all, thats what hes wanted to be, a center!


Kurt Thomas ahead of Nesterovic??? You guys are kidding right?



You guys may not like the guy, but over here in Cali, people think the Spurs got a great deal.

They said Nesterovic is starting to break out, he raised his average 3 points a game last year and has shown immediate improvement every year in the league.

dude was in the tp 5 of shooting percentage.

His defense is OK but look what pop's done with other ok defenders.

You guys are being wayy too fricken hard on Rasho.

Spurminator
07-17-2003, 02:09 PM
I doubt Miller will go for the MLE. I would imagine those teams interested in him will have to give up someone in a S&T to get him out of Indy. I wouldn't be surprised if the Pacers are pushing for Nash.

Admiral
07-17-2003, 02:27 PM
yeah admiral lets start a pf next to Duncan

cause after all, thats what hes wanted to be, a center!


Kurt Thomas ahead of Nesterovic??? You guys are kidding right?

You guys may not like the guy, but over here in Cali, people think the Spurs got a great deal.

They said Nesterovic is starting to break out, he raised his average 3 points a game last year and has shown immediate improvement every year in the league.

dude was in the tp 5 of shooting percentage.

His defense is OK but look what pop's done with other ok defenders.

You guys are being wayy too fricken hard on Rasho. -T Park num 9

T Park, here are the 2002-2003 stats for both players (which include Rasho's dramatic 3 ppg scoring increase):

Rasho Nesterovic: 11.2 PPG, 6.5 RPG, 1.5 BPG, .51 SPG
Kurt Thomas: 14.0 PPG, 7.9 RPG, 1.2 BPG, 1.0 SPG

Rasho's field goal percentage is higher than Thomas's, but Kurt Thomas brings toughness. He has a bit of a swagger that Rasho does not have. Why am I crazy for thinking that Thomas should start ahead of Nesterovic if the trade occurs?

Solid D
07-17-2003, 02:27 PM
Manu is a merchandising gold-mine, if the Spurs and NBA haven't already figured it out.

Anyone notice the Spurs.com website lately and the espanol nba links. 'Didn't used to be that way, compadres.

Anything Manu does in Argentina right now is in the papers.

Example out of Cordova (Manu and Oberto's territory).

translate.google.com/tran...epo_00.htm (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.lmcba.com.ar/2003/03-07-16/6_depo_00.htm)

I'll bet a nice percentage of the populaton in Argentina has copped "20" Manu Spurs gear.

David Robinson and Sean Elliott said that Manu is one guy they'd actually pay to see (and I think Barkley did also).

Dude is the best thing to happen to San Antonio since Tim Duncan.

Jimcs50
07-17-2003, 02:32 PM
Here is the deal. Spurs get Kurt Thomas and Sprewell and we give up Rose and Speedy. Rose goes home to Philly and Speedy goes to NY.

ALSPURS
07-17-2003, 02:40 PM
Where did you find out the right trade?

Jimcs50
07-17-2003, 02:51 PM
This is the trade that I made up in chat last night, I think it is a good one....now if we can pull it off, then I will be happy.:)

Solid D
07-17-2003, 02:53 PM
Source is Jimcs50madeitup.com

A widely trusted site, I might add! Right Jim?

Fizzzar
07-17-2003, 02:59 PM
Solid, it's Cordoba, my friend :)

Jimcs50
07-17-2003, 02:59 PM
Jimcs50wishit.com

I was just making it up as a wish trade, not to deceive anyone.:)

Solid D
07-17-2003, 03:12 PM
Sorry about that Fizzz. Even the translator has trouble with the b and v thing.

And as Fizzz would say...
"Experience is a comv that you reciebe when you get vald"

Fizzzar
07-17-2003, 03:25 PM
:lol

Guru of Nothing
07-17-2003, 03:25 PM
Rasho Nesterovic: 11.2 PPG, 6.5 RPG, 1.5 BPG, .51 SPG
Kurt Thomas: 14.0 PPG, 7.9 RPG, 1.2 BPG, 1.0 SPG



Upon further review, here are Kurt Thomas's numbers against the Spurs, Lakers, Kings, Mavs, Timberwolves, Blazers, Rockets, and Suns from last year:

29.4 minutes per game
12.3 points per game (this includes two huge games against the Suns - 10.3 points per game otherwise)
41.7 FG%
2.6 FT attempts per game
7.5 RBs per game

Rasho has room to improve, and it's all downhill for Kurt Thomas from here on out.

Just say NO to KT.

kohai
07-17-2003, 03:33 PM
I would've much rather spent the amount Minnesota did on Olowokandi than we spent on Rasho, but oh well. That's another issue.

Repeat after me: the starting money wasn't much different.

The MCE is 4.9M and projections were for Rasho's deal to start at 5.5M. BFD.

Also, hard to compare numbers from an Eastern Conference power forward (Thomas) with a Western Conference center (Rasho). Thomas has also had MAJOR foot problems in his career. AFAIK, Rasho hasn't had any health issues at all.

MannyIsGod
07-17-2003, 03:54 PM
Is it just me, or do TParks takes seem Dizzeque to anyone else?

T Park Num 9
07-17-2003, 04:39 PM
christ

just cause I like a player makes me a homer??

Give me a break.


Nesterovic will end up being a great pickup

and this isnt just me saying this
i have some Laker friends that said He was taking shaq to the hole and beating him around with his offense.

They said his D could use work but with pop it will improve.


Ok, but to fit in around here, Trade everyone get some gangster hoopas in here, team sucks, championship was accidental.

Anyone that disagrees is a homer.

There, everyone happy?

Jimcs50
07-17-2003, 04:42 PM
I'm with ya TPark, I say Nesto will be a VERY GOOD PLAYER NEXT YEAR AND WILL HAVE HIS PRAISES SUNG BY ALL IN HERE(EXCEPT GHOST)....I have bet SW on that assumption, I'm so sure of it.

Country Weeds
07-17-2003, 06:05 PM
I think Keith Van Horn would be a better fit on the Spurs as a SF. Then the Spurs could slide Van Horn to PF and go quick or actually be productive with him at PF and Rose at C if TD and Rasho get in foul troule. Plus he is young and has finals experience.

PG Parker
SG Manu
SF Van Horn
PF Duncan
C Rasho

kohai
07-17-2003, 06:12 PM
Keith Van Horn is horrible. If you want that skill set, just bring back fucking Danny Ferry at a fraction of the cost. 6'10" Caucasian standstill shooters are a dime a dozen in the NBA.

Aggie Hoopsfan
07-17-2003, 07:01 PM
Keith Van Horn sucks.

Sucked in Jersey, got traded.

Sucked in Philly, 76ers are looking to trade.

Do the math.

AHF

T Park Num 9
07-17-2003, 07:03 PM
Thank you Jim.

But of course, were blind total homers that dont know shit. Oh well.

ChumpDumper
07-17-2003, 07:20 PM
If you want Van Horn, just pick up Möttöla from summer league.

Same game and $12.5 million less.

junglespur
07-18-2003, 02:05 AM
NYT says that NY and Philly are working a deal w/o the Spurs -- Thomas and Ward for KVH. That would mean that Philly prefers getting Kurt Thomas (and paying Ward $2m to get out of his contract) to getting Malik and Speedy (in a S-and-T). I actually think Malik and Speedy might be a better fit for them, but they might feel that Malik is too similar a player to Kenny Thomas who they just gave $50m...

If this speculation is true, that's too bad -- Spree and Kurt Thomas would have been sweet additions....

NYT Link (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/18/sports/basketball/18knicks.html)

--------------------

July 18, 2003
Knicks Still Looking to Get Van Horn
By STEVE POPPER


OSTON, July 17 - The Knicks continued discussions with the Philadelphia 76ers today, and might be closing in on a deal to obtain Keith Van Horn.

Knicks General Manager Scott Layden and his Philadelphia counterpart, Billy King, spoke again at the Reebok Pro Summer League today. A league official said the snag might not be any part of a deal that could include sending Kurt Thomas and Charlie Ward to Philadelphia. Rather, it might involve the Knicks' efforts to secure a replacement in the middle for Thomas.
If the Knicks surrendered Thomas, their options at center on the roster would be Clarence Weatherspoon, Othella Harrington and the little-used Travis Knight, all of whom are better suited for the forward spot, and Mike Sweetney, Maciej Lampe or Slavko Vranes, all rookies who do not offer a viable alternative. The Knicks are believed to have tried to include Latrell Sprewell in a deal with Philadelphia, but the Sixers are believed to have rejected that.

The Knicks have tried other avenues to pursue a center, scouring the remaining free-agent market with Brad Miller of Indiana still the best big man left on the market. But a more likely option could be a player coming in for the veteran minimum or another trade. Among the free agents still available are Elden Campbell, Tyrone Hill and Predrag Drobniak. As for a trade, the Knicks have showed an interest in Shawn Bradley of Dallas.

If the Knicks obtain Van Horn, it may signal a more optimistic view by the team on the return of Antonio McDyess, who has the ability to compensate for a true center with his post-up offense and rebounding ability. Van Horn is 6 feet 10 inches, with the ability to score inside and out, but spent much of his time in Philadelphia planted on the perimeter waiting for defenses to collapse on Allen Iverson.

Van Horn did average 7.1 rebounds a game, not far off Thomas's 7.9, and edged Thomas on the offensive boards, 2.1 to 2.0 a game. Thomas scored 14 points a game last season, his career high, but that was still below Van Horn's 15.9 last season. In Van Horn's best season he averaged 21.8 points a game.

A deal that would bring Van Horn would also provide a viable alternative for Sprewell at small forward if the team is able to find a taker for him. Discussions have been held with San Antonio.

In summer league play, the Knicks lost to the Boston Celtics tonight, 96-78, with Sweetney scoring a team-high 15 points. Lampe had 13 points and shot 6 of 15, and Frank Williams, one day after scoring 35 points, was saddled with foul trouble and missed all five of his shots from the floor.