France, the Model Nation

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

:lol

Not to make light of a bad situation, but people like Dan think France is the model nation for how Bush should be running things.

Howabout all the riots and violence going on in France right now? The French police are clueless, the violence and vandalism have no end in sight, and somehow we should be aspiring to be like France...

:rolleyes

[exstatic]

You need to get past this whole France thing. They were right. There were no WMDs to go after, nor any real reason to go into Iraq. Your disdane for them is as relavent as Freedom Fries.

[JoeChalupa]

Yeah, there are never riots in the US.

[scott]

Why are people so obsessed with Dan? Got a crush on him?

[boutons]

AHF, post a link where the Dan says France is a model.

If you can't, just more lying, typical right-wing bullshit, nothing but unending spew of bullshit.

btw, I see you couldn't man up to the demolishings I lay on your wimpy, faggot ass here, so you went to the club to smear me with some story about sexual animal abuse. Typical Karl Rove "ethics". You people are sickening.

[ALVAREZ6]

Yeah, there are never riots in the US.
In the United States of America, no way man.

[Dos]

yes let us never forget france has it's own iraq going on now on the ivory coast... but shhhhhhh it's a little french secret.... lol

[Gerryatrics]

How often does the US have widescale, nearly two weak long, torching a thousand cars, shooting at cops, stoning medics trying to help people, setting a disabled woman on fire, burning down warehouses and schools, trying to burn down a synogogue, edging the country towards civil war rioting exactly?

[Yonivore]

How often does the US have widescale, nearly two weak long, torching a thousand cars, shooting at cops, stoning medics trying to help people, setting a disabled woman on fire, burning down warehouses and schools, trying to burn down a synogogue, edging the country towards civil war rioting exactly?
Yeah, in East or South Central LA or South Chicago. This is the entire country of France. It's hard to top that.

[gtownspur]

GOlly, I think AHF was just lightly jabbing Dan on his oppinion of international issues. HE didnt personally attack him or call him stupid.

It's funny how all the liberals circle the wagons for their own when they are getting criticized. It makes the resident libs look like they have no spine and need approval from each other, seeing how they cant defend themselves.

Dan's a grown man. Let him defend himself.

[exstatic]

How often does the US have widescale, nearly two weak long, torching a thousand cars, shooting at cops, stoning medics trying to help people, setting a disabled woman on fire, burning down warehouses and schools, trying to burn down a synogogue, edging the country towards civil war rioting exactly?

How often does France?

[Yonivore]

How often does France?
Well, with France, it may be that once is enough! Although, there was that whole "Let them eat cake" episode.

And, who's this Dan everyone's on about?

[baseline bum]

France? Let it burn

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

AHF, post a link where the Dan says France is a model.

If you can't, just more lying, typical right-wing bullshit, nothing but unending spew of bullshit.



I don't feel like going back a year to spite your candy ass.


btw, I see you couldn't man up to the demolishings I lay on your wimpy, faggot ass here, so you went to the club to smear me with some story about sexual animal abuse. Typical Karl Rove "ethics". You people are sickening.

What the fuck are you talking about? Are you downing speed balls before you come post on this site, or did momma drop you on your head when you were a child?

Ethics? Look at your posts you ignorant fuck. All your posts on this forum are a witch's brew of Michael Moore consipiracies, diaper rash, and tourette's syndrome all rolled into one.

The only times I've seen as much hate as you spew on this board towards all things Bush is when I listen to Osama talk about America and read what Hitler said about the Jews.

Look in the mirror asshole.

[polandprzem]

Frickin armagedon is near

[boutons]

"It's hard to top that."

No, it's extremly easy. Year and year out, Americans murder themselves, aka "right to bear arms", at rates WAY above murder rates in France or any other industrialized country. How many have been murdered in the last 10 days of rioting by Arab-French kids? Property crimes, yes. Murder? no. Life is very cheap, and uncivilized, in the US compared to other industrial countries. $$$ is the only thing that makes the US go around (watched any TV "religion" and mega-churches lately? it's all about moving product and politics and feel-good show business, NOT about true religiosity or saving souls)

The rate of poverty, infant mortality, rate of medically uninsured-and-uncared-for in the US is WAY above those rates in Europe. But the US spends more $$$ per capita on providing less medical care to fewer people than other industrial countries, where they have decided that a basic human right is the right to universal medical care.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Year and year out, Americans murder themselves, aka "right to bear arms", at rates WAY above murder rates in France or any other industrialized country

:lol

We have a constitutional right to bear arms. In France only the police are allowed. Quit whining. I'll take my constitution over the piece of shit that France calls its idea for how to run a country, thank you.


The rate of poverty, infant mortality, rate of medically uninsured-and-uncared-for in the US is WAY above those rates in Europe.

So you're pro-socialism huh? Nice. Stay the fuck away from my paychecks thank you.


the US spends more $$$ per capita on providing less medical care to fewer people than other industrial countries, where they have decided that a basic human right is the right to universal medical care.

Yeah, and everyone in the entire country also pays like 50% of their salary out in taxes. Do you want that here you fucking idiot?

I am so sick of the idea of socialism being advanced in this country. Fuck that. And fuck anyone who proposes it.

[Marcus Bryant]

There is a pattern here and it has nothing to do with whether 'freedom' or 'french' is the preferable adjective for fried potatoes.

[exstatic]

:lol

We have a constitutional right to bear arms. In France only the police are allowed. Quit whining. I'll take my constitution over the piece of shit that France calls its idea for how to run a country, thank you.



So you're pro-socialism huh? Nice. Stay the fuck away from my paychecks thank you.



Yeah, and everyone in the entire country also pays like 50% of their salary out in taxes. Do you want that here you fucking idiot?

I am so sick of the idea of socialism being advanced in this country. Fuck that. And fuck anyone who proposes it.
^^^^Compassionate Conservative

[boutons]

AHF displays his infantile ignorance and intellectual confusion in their full glory.

[boutons]

"hey sat 1300 cars on fire overnight in paris...wow, this is becoming a full scale war."

About 4000 cars were STOLEN yesterday in the USA, along with 35 - 40 murders. 365 days/year.

How is this EPISODE in France worse that the CHRONIC crime in the USA?

[jochhejaam]

"hey sat 1300 cars on fire overnight in paris...wow, this is becoming a full scale war."

About 4000 cars were STOLEN yesterday in the USA, along with 35 - 40 murders. 365 days/year.

How is this EPISODE in France worse that the CHRONIC crime in the USA?
If it were your neighborhood would you prefer that a car or two get stolen or would you prefer what happened in Paris; 1,300 vehicles and torched businesses, schools and symbols of French authority, including post offices and provincial police stations, late Saturday and early Sunday.

The French aren't trying to downplay the seriousness of the situation, why are you?

[Yonivore]

I think we're seeing the initiation of an Islamic state in Europe. I hope Chirac shipped his weapons out of the country.

[gtownspur]

^muslim teenage boys conguering france..rofl!! I wonder if germany is kicking themselves for not having done it sooner this year.

[Yonivore]

^muslim teenage boys conguering france..rofl!! I wonder if germany is kicking themselves for not having done it sooner this year.
All I know is the rest of Europe better take notice and start doing something. I don't want another D-Day. Frankly, I'd just as soon nuke France than let another American die for their freedom. They've done nothing but spit in our faces ever since we pulled their bacon out of the fire last time.

I wouldn't shed a tear if Jacques Chirac were strung up from the Eiffel Tower.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

AHF displays his infantile ignorance and intellectual confusion in their full glory.

Infantile ignorance? Oh, right, because you've proven to be so fucking knowledgable on this site :lol About the only thing you can contribute to any discussion is "fuck Bush, Bush fucking sucks."

What intellectual confusion? We are witnessing the start of the intifadah in Europe before our very eyes, and your dumb ass is whining about a few cars getting stolen.

[IcemanCometh]

wow you guys are fucking assholes

[SWC Bonfire]

I didn't want to have to bust this out... either you're with France or you're with the terrorists.

A lot of people who are pissed off at the French only know what they hear on Fox News. There are a lot of extremely generous people in France who will get our help if they need it. France has saved American lives numerous times in Africa at their own risk, so save your crap.

[RandomGuy]

(shrugs)

I am far from an admirer of French foreign/domestic policy, but if riots are any measure of how "good" a country is, you might want to consider the riots in the US first...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:U.S._history_of_civil_unrest

Articles in category "U.S. history of civil unrest"
There are 50 articles in this section of this category.
1

* 12th Street Riot
* 1968 Democratic National Convention

A

* African Blood Brotherhood
* Air traffic controllers' strike of 1981
* Anti-abolitionist riots (1834)
* Attica Prison riots

B

* Baltimore riot of 1968
* Baltimore riot of 1861

C

* Centralia massacre
* Chicago Race Riot of 1919
* 2001 Cincinnati Riots
* Civil disturbances and military action in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina
* Crown Heights Riot

E

* Elaine Race Riot

G

* Greensboro massacre

H

* Haymarket Riot


H cont.

* Hough Riots

J

* Jackson State killings

K

* Kent State shootings

L

* Lager Beer Riot
* 1992 Los Angeles riots

M

* Mass racial violence in the United States

N

* New Mexico State Penitentiary Riot
* New York Draft Riots
* 1967 Newark riots

O

* Omaha Race Riot of 1919
* Orangeburg massacre

P

* Peekskill Riots
* Philadelphia 1964 race riot
* Philadelphia Nativist Riots
* 1967 Plainfield riots
* Portland Rum Riot
* Pottawatomie Rifles


P cont.

* Pottawatomie massacre
* Preparedness Day bombing
* Pulaski Riot

R

* Red Summer of 1919
* Rosewood, Florida

S

* Seattle Mardi Gras Riots
* Stonewall riots

T

* 2005 Toledo Riot
* Tulsa Race Riot

U

* Unrest

W

* WTO Ministerial Conference of 1999
* 1991 Washington, DC riot
* 1968 Washington, DC riots
* Watts riots
* White Night Riots
* Wisconsin Walleye War

Z

* Zoot Suit Riots


I would note that no small number of these riots are race and economically related. Disenfranchise people, and you get all sorts of nastiness.

[Marcus Bryant]

Don't mind the violent Muslim riots, they're just engaging in an exchange of ideas.

[j-6]

I read a lot about this over the weekend, and the situation is about to turn hairier. NIcholas Sarkozy, the French Interior Minister, is a hardline right-winger that is calling the rioters "scum" and wants to bring out fire hoses to dispell the crowds. He's also more popular than Chirac, and Le Monde ever said that if Sarkozy can end this that he'll be a shoo-in for President.

Chirac, on the other hand, has been trying to decide whether to run again or to try and get his Prime Minister (de Villepin) elected. His base wants to address the problem by improving the public housing in the "suburbs" that the rioters live in and try and chip away at the 25%+ unemployment rate among those Muslims dwelling there. Oh yeah, and Chirac/ de Villepin hate Sarkozy, even though he's the head of their political party.

The other two problems are that mosques are being targeted and that the Muslims want political legitimacy. Almost all of the mosques in the suburbs/ghettos are financed by concerns from the homeland, and in retaliation, Catholic churches are getting bombed. This pisses off the overwhelmingly Catholic French commoners who are screaming for action and are quite oblivious to the irony of it all.

The governemnt doesn't want to legitimize the Muslim ghettos by registering everyone to vote because they fear greater immigration and a very real possibility of a civil war once the Muslims seize some sort of power.

This whole scenario is just fucked.

[RandomGuy]

That sounds like a good summary of the situation.

France will be only one of the many European countries dealing with a sudden lack of homogeny. It will be interesting to see how it pans out.

[Extra Stout]

This is Europe's demographic time bomb finally going off.

They don't reproduce, yet they have an expansive welfare state that needs workers.
Thus, they've brought in wave after wave of immigrants, typically from North Africa, the Middle East, and Asia.

But, they've made no effort to assimilate these immigrants. Instead, they've set up ethnic ghettos with nothing culturally in common with the nations at large. And, they've largely washed their hands of governing them.

So what you've ended up with are European cities ringed with ethnic ghettos with high unemployment, ruled de facto by drug gangs. It's like American cities, except the suburbs and the inner city are switched.

But, the big difference is Europe is the emergence of radical Islamism in the ghettos.

Uh-oh.

In the U.S., minorities trapped in poverty in the bad neighborhoods may be angry and blame the dominant white Anglo power structure for their plight. They may see themselves as victims.

Increasingly, that is NOT the case in Europe. The anger is out of hatred and contempt, not perceived injustice. They hate the French and the Danes and the Dutch because they are European infidels, and their long-term goal is NOT justice and equality. It is conquest.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, this row in France has more to do with the power struggle between that vile contemptible little cunt de Villepin and his rival Sarkozy. Sarzoky, an immigrant himself, is the rare French politician with credibility both among the ordinary French folks and the Muslim immigrants. But he is despised by the aristocratic classes because, well, he is not an aristocrat.

Sarkozy has been trying to implement reforms that actually meet the needs of these immigrant communities. He maintains that they need law and order in their communities in order to create and retain wealth and start to get ahead, and that they need that law and order more than they need "cultural understanding."

So his plan was to introduce a stronger police presence in the ghettos. He knew that the drug gangs would respond by rioting, because they want to retain their own power. His plan was to crush them mercilessly.

Enter de Villepin.

de Villepin figured that if he let the riots spiral out of control a little bit, then he could blame Sarkozy for the unrest and strengthen his own presidential ambitions. So that's what he did. He hamstrung the law enforcement effort.

Now, France is going to have a hell of a time putting the genie back in the bottle. At first, the religious extremists weren't the ones fueling the riots. But, they've taken advantage of the opportunity.

Now, the riots are spreading to Belgium, to Denmark, and to Germany.

Uh-oh.

[gtownspur]

^^Ex stout, France has had draconian measures to integrate muslims. the problem is, once the muslims do well in society, they flee the ghetto leaving behind nothing to teach the incoming people.

[j-6]

^^Ex stout, France has had draconian measures to integrate muslims. the problem is, once the muslims do well in society, they flee the ghetto leaving behind nothing to teach the incoming people.

For those of you that don't know what gtown is talking about, France implores all of her immigrants to forget their roots and become French, rather than what Britain and the United States does with trying to get everyone to just learn English, obey the law and pay taxes. France denies any motion in which race, religion, color or sexual preference could undermine national unity at all.

[smeagol]

I cannot understand people's animosity against the French.

[Vashner]

I cannot understand people's animosity against the French.

WWII <<----

They started Vietnam too.. It's a long story.. France was a superpower. In it's heyday it was a Global Naval Power. Anyway appeasement and containment. Like Saddam said.. people like a strong horse not a weak one.

[Marcus Bryant]

Islamic violence? Oh, I thought this thread was about something new.

[Mr. Peabody]

I cannot understand people's animosity against the French.

I think it's because France is generally regarded as a more "enlightened" country than the US. So we here in the US take every opportunity to slam them when they make mistakes.
________
CandyAnal cam (http://camslivesexy.com/cam/CandyAnal)

[nkdlunch]

I'd be cool if the rioters were also flesh eating zombies

[Marklar MM]

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/france.html

[Hook Dem]

I cannot understand people's animosity against the French.
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/4498/wtf0ru.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Hook Dem]

France reaps what France sows! :flipoff

[Oh, Gee!!]

^damn good point. if islam gets their hands on a alot of nukes their will be a lot of ass-kissing and conversions to islam..........islam will take over the world, before so-called "freedom" is allowed to run rapant in the streets. To them "freedom" is a code word for HEDONISM........can't anyone realize this. The next great war will be a full scale war between "half-assed christians" and "hardline militant muslims" and the muslims will not be afraid to nuke you in the name of ALLAH. whilst us "christians" turn the other cheek they will shove a nuke right down your throat.

moral of the story. get right with G_D before the muslims kill you, in the name of G_D.

christians need to get organized and they need to get militant again....just like the good old days back in the '80's...........1280's.

instead of talking so much shit, maybe you should do something about it. If you were Muslim you would.

[gtownspur]

^Flash what have you done now. You hurt OH GEE's feelers. YOu better act nice or you'll be on his ignore list.

[RandomGuy]

Islamic violence? Oh, I thought this thread was about something new.

Christian violence? Oh, I thought this thread was about something new.

[RandomGuy]

yeah, but in america if you cause too much trouble YOU WILL BE SHOT!
.................and then the party ends.

Like in Kent State?
:rolleyes

[gtownspur]

Well Random, i guess your theory that a progressive state accomplishing more has been shot down as of lately. 10 percent unemployment... Yeah i bet that's a great economy.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Like I said on (I think) page 1, we're witnessing the start of another Crusade type period in world history.

Yet some ignorant fucks like NBADunce think we can just turn the other cheek and the militant Islam problem will go away.

I have a bad feeling this may be the beginning of the penultimate battle between militant Islam and the modernized West.

Pick a side boys, it's going to get ugly.

[RandomGuy]

^damn good point. if islam gets their hands on a alot of nukes their will be a lot of ass-kissing and conversions to islam..........islam will take over the world, before so-called "freedom" is allowed to run rapant in the streets. To them "freedom" is a code word for HEDONISM........can't anyone realize this. The next great war will be a full scale war between "half-assed christians" and "hardline militant muslims" and the muslims will not be afraid to nuke you in the name of ALLAH. whilst us "christians" turn the other cheek they will shove a nuke right down your throat.

moral of the story. get right with G_D before the muslims kill you, in the name of G_D.

christians need to get organized and they need to get militant again....just like the good old days back in the '80's...........1280's.
http://www.trephination.net/gallery/macros/mentalmidget.jpg

[RandomGuy]

Well Random, i guess your theory that a progressive state accomplishing more has been shot down as of lately. 10 percent unemployment... Yeah i bet that's a great economy.


:lol

Um, yeah, sure. Whatever you say.

[jochhejaam]

"And the Beat Goes On"

Rioting has spread to 300 Cities!

The first fatality was identified as 61-year-old Jean-Jacques Le Chenadec. He was trying to extinguish a trash can fire Friday at his housing project in the northeastern Paris suburb of Stains when an attacker caught him by surprise and beat him into a coma, police said.


PARIS (AP) - France will impose curfews under a state-of-emergency law and call up police reservists to stop rioting that has spread out of Paris' suburbs and into nearly 300 cities and towns across the country, the prime minister said Monday, calling a return to order "our No. 1 responsibility."

The tough new measures came as France's worst civil unrest in decades entered a 12th night, with rioters in the southern city of Toulouse setting fire to a bus after sundown and pelting police with gasoline bombs and rocks.

Outside the capital in Sevran, a junior high school was set ablaze, while in another Paris suburb, Vitry-sur-Seine, youths threw gasoline bombs at a hospital, police said. No one was injured. Earlier, a 61-year-old retired auto worker died of wounds from an attack last week, the first death in the violence.

Vandals burned more than 1,400 vehicles overnight into Monday, as well as churches, schools and businesses, and injured 36 police officers in clashes around the country, setting a new high for arson and violence, said France's national police chief, Michel Gaudin. Attacks were reported in 274 towns, and police made 395 arrests.

"This spread, with a sort of shock wave spreading across the country, shows up in the number of towns affected," Gaudin said.

In terms of material destruction, the unrest is France's worst since World War II - and never has rioting struck so many different French cities simultaneously, said security expert Sebastian Roche, a director of research at the state-funded National Center for Scientific Research.

[RandomGuy]

If the storm the Bastille, I'm packing up for the hills. Just a reminder the French have nukes...

Not only do they have nukes, they also rely heavily on nuclear power. Eek. I would hate to be downwind of them. The fallout would be bad too, heh.

[IcemanCometh]

muslims are the new communists

beware the evil muslim insurgency that will take over the world!!!!!!!111

[Extra Stout]

Christian violence? Oh, I thought this thread was about something new.
Remember how European Christians conquered or colonized most of the world? It's fine and dandy to play "moral equivalence," except that in this case it would involve we ourselves being killed or subjugated into dhimmitude.

Which is your attitude toward being conquered?

A) We conquered and slaughgtered others, so it's only fair that we ourselves be conquered and slaughtered.

B) We should resist being conquered, with as much violence as is necessary to preserve our civilization.

To anybody who chooses A), can I use you as a human shield?

[spurster]

This is not a Muslim uprising. It's a combination of hoodlums and discrimination.

[Mr. Peabody]

Remember how European Christians conquered or colonized most of the world? It's fine and dandy to play "moral equivalence," except that in this case it would involve we ourselves being killed or subjugated into dhimmitude.

Which is your attitude toward being conquered?

A) We conquered and slaughgtered others, so it's only fair that we ourselves be conquered and slaughtered.

B) We should resist being conquered, with as much violence as is necessary to preserve our civilization.

To anybody who chooses A), can I use you as a human shield?

Or how about --

C) We kick some Muslim ass!!!

I'll take "C"
________
KIDS ZOLOFT (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/zoloft/)

[Vashner]

The French police lol "well it's getting better.. only 1200 cars instead of 1400 burned"..

Oh.. really.. .. that's better?? I hope there is an end to this without use of deadly force.

[Extra Stout]

I do wonder how much of this is getting blown out of proportion.

How bad of a riot can it be when only one person gets killed in a week and a half?

[Yonivore]

I do wonder how much of this is getting blown out of proportion.

How bad of a riot can it be when only one person gets killed in a week and a half?
Well, it's been surmised that the rioters are only doing enough to cause damage -- without going too far -- because they want to continue the rampage and not give an excuse for the French to bring in troops or start shooting.

These aren't stupid kids...there's a plan afoot. Do enough damage to the infrastructure, before the government loses patience or is pushed over the edge, and they may not be able to respond when you really start your bad shit.

C'mon, 8,000 cars and now, buildings -- schools, police stations, fire stations, and other government structures in 300 cities? There will come a point when all the French will have are military assets with which to respond. I think that's what the "rioters" want...a military confrontation.

This isn't an insignificant problem...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2005/11/08/wfran08big.gif

Notice the caption: "THE MAIN FLASHPOINTS"

I'm beginning to wonder if there are things happening we're not being told. Has anyone checked on the non-muslim poor in those slums? For all we know, they've slaughtered a bunch of infidels. (merely speculation).

[IcemanCometh]

Some of you people may want to look up May 1968. How quickly we forget.

Fucking morons.

[Dos]

yes iceman.. we also had a civil war in this nation.... we are screwed aren't we...?

[Yonivore]

Some of you people may want to look up May 1968. How quickly we forget.

Fucking morons.
The civil rights riots happened at the END of a struggle...what are the riots in France the end of?

If you ask me, probably France.

[gtownspur]

http://www.trephination.net/gallery/macros/mentalmidget.jpg

I find it equally moronic to deny that there are muslim sects who would nuke anyone that doesnt agree.

But RG has his schooling accreditations. To bad his PC blinders makes him a nut.

[scott]

The Proletariat Revolution I hypothesized about a few years ago at the old website? Bourgeoisie is a French word, after all.

[RandomGuy]

I find it equally moronic to deny that there are muslim sects who would nuke anyone that doesnt agree.

But RG has his schooling accreditations. To bad his PC blinders makes him a nut.

I don't deny that there are muslim sects who would nuke anyone that doesn't agree. There are.

I am not quite as PC as your prejudice would predict. You seem to try and lump my views in with a lot of things you don't like, without any proof of what those views are. That's ok. We aren't buddies, so I can't expect much quarter there.
:lol

[gtownspur]

^^i dont know RG. I mean you also have concluded that if we were to treat prisoners with higher regard we would get treated equally if we were captured by alqueda.

[Spurs košarka kultura]

All I know is if someone burns one of my cars, they will be on the recieving end of this....
http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/para_11787.jpg

(Of course the French don't have this option.)

[gtownspur]

^^^yep.

[IcemanCometh]

May 1968 happened in France, dumbasses. The government was almost on the verge of collapse, much like now.


Why so mad? (http://www.slate.com/id/2129921/)


This may come as a disappointment to those who await the "clash of civilizations" as ardently as doomsday cultists await the apocalypse. But the fact that many of the rioters are from Muslim families is about as relevant as the fact that many of 1992's Los Angeles rioters had Baptist grannies.

Ironically, France has done a far better job than America of educating its underclass, thanks to a school system paid for with national rather than local funds. But the state has failed on employment, leaving students with skills and aspirations twisting in the wind.

[gtownspur]

^^Since no one cares what happens with france, when are you going to collect your measly legal fees from france?

[RandomGuy]

^^i dont know RG. I mean you also have concluded that if we were to treat prisoners with higher regard we would get treated equally if we were captured by alqueda.

So we shouldn't hold ourselves to higher standards than bloodthirsty murderers?

Our soldiers and ourselves are better than that.

Just because the guy next door is stealing, doesn't make it right for me to.

[gtownspur]

Their national soldiers and trained assasins in a war for our protection. Not the armies of the Lord of HOst, sword of the Lion of Judiah so help me GawddddDah! Can i get a witness.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

kultura, unless that's a .45 that's too small a caliber :lol

[Spurs košarka kultura]

:lol It is a .45
Para Ordinance Carry 12 .45, truly a beautiful weapon.

[Spurs košarka kultura]

BTW you done any diving this year AHF?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Nothing spectacular. Lake Travis and Aquarina Springs, that's about it. Work's been too busy.

Saving up for a housing and video camera, gotta have some new toys to take to Belize next May :D

[Spurs košarka kultura]

gotta have some new toys to take to Belize next May

Lucky bastard

[Spurs košarka kultura]

Saving up for a housing and video camera
What make are you looking at?

[RandomGuy]

Their national soldiers and trained assasins in a war for our protection. Not the armies of the Lord of HOst, sword of the Lion of Judiah so help me GawddddDah! Can i get a witness.


http://www.trephination.net/gallery/macros/thanks4info%5B1%5D.gif


I sure hope that was not meant to be taken seriously.

This is something that I take very seriously. I can see light and humor in things, but I think we are better than the people we are fighting and should act that way.

[gtownspur]

^^^Its not about sitting on a high horse and saying we're above effective methods of extraction. We should outweigh the pros with the cons. Most of these prisoners are terrorist. They have no Geneva convention protection since they do not fight by those rules. IF you have a whole army playing by a high standard and another from a low, you get an unfair advantage. Not only that, but your concern should be the innocent and not the guilty.

[RandomGuy]

^^^Its not about sitting on a high horse and saying we're above effective methods of extraction. We should outweigh the pros with the cons. Most of these prisoners are terrorist. They have no Geneva convention protection since they do not fight by those rules. IF you have a whole army playing by a high standard and another from a low, you get an unfair advantage. Not only that, but your concern should be the innocent and not the guilty.

They are criminals basically. Give them trials and sentences and that is that.

The longer we don't give them trials the more we lose the "war" on terror.

[RandomGuy]

By the way, when a country is a signatory of the Geneva convention they are obliged to uphold those standards even when fighting those countries who aren't part of the treaty.

[gtownspur]

Your seriously joking. When we win the war on terror, it wont be because we are sending terrorist to US courts. Only the liberal puss's care about the legal issues. The muslim world only cares if the troops are humiliating the terrorist sexually or forcing blasphemy on them.

[gtownspur]

By the way, when a country is a signatory of the Geneva convention they are obliged to uphold those standards even when fighting those countries who aren't part of the treaty. Does it say that in the treaty.. Or does it say that in the LE mOnde.

[jochhejaam]

By the way, when a country is a signatory of the Geneva convention they are obliged to uphold those standards even when fighting those countries who aren't part of the treaty.
I would expect our Country to adhere to the Rules of the GC only to the extent that the opposition does. Following guidelines when others don't gives them an unfair advantage and cost US soldiers lives, I prefer lives saved over strictly following GC protocol

[RandomGuy]

and if we could save a soldier's life by shooting children, then that is ok too?

Moral expediency here is losing us the war on terror. When nations are falling over themselves to be more anti-american than each other, that becomes a problem.

[gtownspur]

^^That's assinine. Equating a child with a terrorist? GEt off your high horse.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Right now I'm looking at one of the 3 CCD Panasonic digitals. :tu

[RandomGuy]

Right now I'm looking at one of the 3 CCD Panasonic digitals. :tu

Heh, when our son was born we went through a roll of film per month, then broke down and got a digital camera. Best $300 bucks we ever spent.

[RandomGuy]

Heh, without it instant pic like this of our son goofing around wouldn't be possible:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a131/bluepooh72/funnyfaces002.jpg

[jochhejaam]

and if we could save a soldier's life by shooting children, then that is ok too?
Moral expediency here is losing us the war on terror. When nations are falling over themselves to be more anti-american than each other, that becomes a problem.
Can you cite or have you heard of any instances where a child is in direct violation of the GC and poses a direct or imminent threat to our soldiers lives?

[RandomGuy]

Can you cite or have you heard of any instances where a child is in direct violation of the GC and poses a direct or imminent threat to our soldiers lives?

Actually no small number of gunmen in Somalia were under 14. But that isn't really what I was getting at.

Commiting morally reprehensible acts is simply not justified in my opinion, even were it to save our soldiers lives, or my life for that matter.

Further, the damage it does to our image in the muslim world and beyond causes them to cooperate with us less and less as time goes on. THIS is the real effect of such things.

These effects may not be immediate or measuable but over time, I firmly believe that they directly increase the number and severity of future terrorist attacks.

[jochhejaam]

[QUOTE=RandomGuy]Actually no small number of gunmen in Somalia were under 14. But that isn't really what I was getting at.
I'm sure you know the answer to how those "young gunslingers" should be handled. Or would you suggest our troops lay down their arms and be shot?






Commiting morally reprehensible acts is simply not justified in my opinion, even were it to save our soldiers lives, or my life for that matter.Or a member of your family's life?

Again, can you cite or do you know of any examples where this took place?

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

I think some people here are actually enjoying the chaos in France. May I ask you why? Because France didn't support the Iraq invasion? So because of that they deserve riots, or even worse, an Intifada? If it makes you happy that civilians die in your "rival" country, then you are no better than a terrorist.

Oh, and I've read that someone called France a "socialist" nation. Yep, right.

Michelin
Elf
Peugeot
Renault
Citroen
Danone
Dassault
Lancome
Telecom
L'Oreal
Christian Dior
Air France
Alcatel
BNP Paribas
Canal +
Carrefour
Societe Generale
Moet et Chandon

[RandomGuy]

[QUOTE=jochhejaam]
I'm sure you know the answer to how those "young gunslingers" should be handled. Or would you suggest our troops lay down their arms and be shot?
If you pick up a rifle and shoot it at ME, I don't care how old you are, I will shoot back, and the same should be said for our troops. I was referring more to cold-blooded murder than self-defense. BUT this hairsplitting is beside the point.




Or a member of your family's life?
Again, can you cite or do you know of any examples where this took place?

I would feel the same if it were a my entire family. That is the regard with which I hold the ideals. It is hard to say, but again, somethings are bigger than ourselves.

Please tell me why I should cite examples.

[jochhejaam]

[QUOTE]
Please tell me why I should cite examples.
Actual and factual examples carry far more weight than hypothetical ones.







(took the day off to get some car work done, I knew I'd spend too much time in the Forum). :lol