Muh Economy

[midnightpulp]

Let's have a separate thread about this. Wingnut twitter and likeminded Libertarians are calling for America to "reopen" because the "cure can't be worse than disease!" Think of all the suicides and substance abuse and other fallout if the economy continues to be shutdown!

So the economy reopens. Then what? The industries that are being hardest hit are hospitality jobs that rely on frequent close human-to-human interaction in crowded spaces (bars, restaurants, clubs, theaters, etc). Do these idiots think that once Lord Trump declares American open for business, that people are going to pack those establishments like before? No way in Hell.

There's also the argument that we can't destroy the economy to save "old people." To be fair, the people who say this aren't necessarily saying that we sacrifice old people at the altar of capitalism, but that older people should continue to self quarantine while the "young" can get back to work. This is also retarded logic. Old people still drive a fair amount of consumerism. And young people are in no way, shape, or form immune to this virus's more severe symptoms. 40 percent hospitalizations are younger than 55 (https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/2020/03/27/how-old-coronavirus-patients-us-we-looked-hospitalization-data-19-states/2922646001/).

So it's not like younger people will be able to just jump back into work and shake off a coronavirus infection like it's a mild cold. At the very least, they'll need to self-quarantine for 14 days. This will translate into a natural labor pool shortage that will have to force a business to close down anyway (ex. I'm some dumbshit Libertarian who is itching to reopen his bar and grill. Lord Trump decrees that I can. I reopen at full capacity and two weeks later, my entire staff has to self-quarantine).

There's zero path right now to reopening the economy. If you do so, you'll get the same economic damage we're going through right now but more deaths and people sick, which will contribute even more economic damage down the road.

I'm no economist, but why can't we put a moratorium on debt for a year? The reason many small businesses will probably fold over this crisis because they won't be able to pay the banks and other creditors. Why do the banks need the money right now? Where will it go? To a group of rich assholes who don't need the money anyway? And why would banks need to be flush with extra capital right now when no one in their right mind would "borrow" to, you know, start something like business because it isn't the best fuckin time to start a business at the moment.

Banks basically just circulate money from payers to borrowers, and if borrower demand is low, what's the point of foreclosing on a debtor right now other than pure greed? (Guess I answered my own question. I'm sure a bunch of shitheels are licking their chops at all the devalued assets they'll be able to pick up during the crisis and sit on for a decade).

[CosmicCowboy]

That's a pretty over simplistic way to look at it. Banks just do the paperwork. They rarely hold the loans long term. By the time they get bundled, sold, split up, resold you probably have some of those loans you want forgiven in your 401K if you have one.

[midnightpulp]

That's a pretty over simplistic way to look at it. Banks just do the paperwork. They rarely hold the loans long term. By the time they get bundled, sold, split up, resold you probably have some of those loans you want forgiven in your 401K if you have one.

So I ask, what are the consequences of issuing a moratorium on debt collection for a year? Not doing so seems to only benefit assholes like collection agencies, while having huge consequences on putting countless small businesses out of business.

[Spurs Homer]

There is still

ZERO plan (testing is non-existent)


let trump and his cult go back out there

[CosmicCowboy]

So I ask, what are the consequences of issuing a moratorium on debt collection for a year? Not doing so seems to only benefit assholes like collection agencies, while having huge consequences on putting countless small businesses out of business.

The only way that works is if the government picks up the tab for the missed payments. It's a really big number.

[CosmicCowboy]

So I ask, what are the consequences of issuing a moratorium on debt collection for a year? Not doing so seems to only benefit assholes like collection agencies, while having huge consequences on putting countless small businesses out of business.

The only way that works is if the government picks up the tab for the missed payments. It's a really big number. Not arguing that it could be a short term solution, just not sure it's the best one.

[spurraider21]

So I ask, what are the consequences of issuing a moratorium on debt collection for a year? Not doing so seems to only benefit assholes like collection agencies, while having huge consequences on putting countless small businesses out of business.
government would have to operate with sharply diminished tax revenue. inflation if they have to borrow too much

[midnightpulp]

The only way that works is if the government picks up the tab for the missed payments. It's a really big number. Not arguing that it could be a short term solution, just not sure it's the best one.

Do you think it might have to come to down individual moral behavior then? Let's say I'm some multimillionaire property owner. I have enough in the bank from my ventures to live another 50 years of the hookers and blow lifestyle. The strip mall I own with the ice cream shop, café, pizza parlor, and a couple of non-essential businesses is shutdown/just doing takeout. The business owners obviously won't be able to pay their lease for some time. Since I'm comfortable, and don't "need" that money, I can just tell them, "you're good, bro. Don't worry about making payments until we get past this thing. I want to save your businesses."

I just don't see how anyone (who has the luxury to do so) with a conscience could bring the eviction/collection hammers down right now.

[CosmicCowboy]

Do you think it might have to come to down individual moral behavior then? Let's say I'm some multimillionaire property owner. I have enough in the bank from my ventures to live another 50 years of the hookers and blow lifestyle. The strip mall I own with the ice cream shop, café, pizza parlor, and a couple of non-essential businesses is shutdown/just doing takeout. The business owners obviously won't be able to pay their lease for some time. Since I'm comfortable, and don't "need" that money, I can just tell them, "you're good, bro. Don't worry about making payments until we get past this thing. I want to save your businesses."

I just don't see how anyone (who has the luxury to do so) with a conscience could bring the eviction/collection hammers down right now.

That's pretty hypothetical. The typical shopping center is owned by a REIT that pools money from individual investors that depend on the monthly income derived from the rents after the REIT takes its management fee. Or even an individual investors who has " made it" according to you...he puts down 20%, borrows the rest and has monthly payments that the rent almost covers. No rent, no payments, he gets foreclosed on and loses everything.

[midnightpulp]

That's pretty hypothetical. The typical shopping center is owned by a REIT that pools money from individual investors that depend on the monthly income derived from the rents after the REIT takes its management fee. Or even an individual investors who has " made it" according to you...he puts down 20%, borrows the rest and has monthly payments that the rent almost covers. No rent, no payments, he gets foreclosed on and loses everything.

But this moratorium works in his favor, as well.

What I'm trying to examine here is that saving the economy is going to require a different sort of thinking, behavior and approach than the solutions that were applied to past depressions and recessions. What I'm trying to figure out is who or what is going to get the money as a result of all of this? Does that money "need" to go there?

[Winehole23]

Sidebar: temporary UBI proposed by Sen.Josh Hawley

1248316823302483969

[midnightpulp]

Sidebar: temporary UBI proposed by Sen.Josh Hawley

1248316823302483969

:tu :tu :tu

[Winehole23]

:tu :tu :tuPuts his caucus to the left of Pelosi/Schumer (on UBI) if they take it up.

[FrostKing]

So no one told you life was gonna be this way. Your job's a joke, you're broke, your love life's D.O.A

It's like you're always stuck in second gear. When it hasn't been your day, your week, your month
Or even your year, but

[midnightpulp]

And as microcosm of that UBI scenario, individual business that can afford it should continue to pay their employees throughout the shutdown (I would agree that employees receiving such shouldn't qualify for UBI).

I'll use our local casinos here as an example. They own the land, and thus don't owe anyone in that regard (they might possibly owe loans for other things, but who knows). The closest casino to me was rumored to pull in 12 billion in revenue last year. I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say that it doesn't cost 6 billion to run that joint (the MGM Resorts, meaning multiple casinos, had 8 billion in operating costs last year). But even if it did, they could use just one year of profits to pay each of their 5000 employees over 1 million dollars :lol. So they could easily close up shop for a year, pay their employees their current wages, and reopen when it's safe to reopen. But these assholes are talking about an early May reopening. And why? Pure greed. That's it.

[vy65]

But this moratorium works in his favor, as well.

What I'm trying to examine here is that saving the economy is going to require a different sort of thinking, behavior and approach than the solutions that were applied to past depressions and recessions. What I'm trying to figure out is who or what is going to get the money as a result of all of this? Does that money "need" to go there?

The banking sector would never go along with this. Which I know is your point, but asking why won't bankers stop taking people's money is an "old man yells at cloud" type question.

[spurraider21]

And as microcosm of that UBI scenario, individual business that can afford it should continue to pay their employees throughout the shutdown (I would agree that employees receiving such shouldn't qualify for UBI).

I'll use our local casinos here as an example. They own the land, and thus don't owe anyone in that regard (they might possibly owe loans for other things, but who knows). The closest casino to me was rumored to pull in 12 billion in revenue last year. I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say that it doesn't cost 6 billion to run that joint (the MGM Resorts, meaning multiple casinos, had 8 billion in operating costs last year). But even if it did, they could use just one year of profits to pay each of their 5000 employees over 1 million dollars :lol. So they could easily close up shop for a year, pay their employees their current wages, and reopen when it's safe to reopen. But these assholes are talking about an early May reopening. And why? Pure greed. That's it.
:cry why are you punishing success

[midnightpulp]

:cry why are you punishing success

Probably getting pressured by the tribal members. Those dudes blow their money like no one's business.

[SnakeBoy]

I'm no economist, but why can't we put a moratorium on debt for a year?

What happens after the year is up?

The thing I disagree with is your underlying premise. If we all hide in a hole for 12 months the virus will still be here when we come out of our holes. Not to mention that people will not hide in a hole for the next 12 months regardless of what the govt says.

Covid-19 is globally endemic now and will make it's way through most of the population. Nothing is going to change that. We will go through a series of starts and stops globally to control the rate of burn and that is all there is to it. We already see that playing out in Asia and Europe as countries are relaxing restrictions.

[boutons_deux]

Puts his caucus to the left of Pelosi/Schumer (on UBI) if they take it up.

has about as much a chance as automatic voter registration, Medicare for all, or universal vote-by-mail

[SnakeBoy]

.

[ElNono]

Let's have a separate thread about this. Wingnut twitter and likeminded Libertarians are calling for America to "reopen" because the "cure can't be worse than disease!" Think of all the suicides and substance abuse and other fallout if the economy continues to be shutdown!

So the economy reopens. Then what? The industries that are being hardest hit are hospitality jobs that rely on frequent close human-to-human interaction in crowded spaces (bars, restaurants, clubs, theaters, etc). Do these idiots think that once Lord Trump declares American open for business, that people are going to pack those establishments like before? No way in Hell.

There's also the argument that we can't destroy the economy to save "old people." To be fair, the people who say this aren't necessarily saying that we sacrifice old people at the altar of capitalism, but that older people should continue to self quarantine while the "young" can get back to work. This is also retarded logic. Old people still drive a fair amount of consumerism. And young people are in no way, shape, or form immune to this virus's more severe symptoms. 40 percent hospitalizations are younger than 55 (https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/2020/03/27/how-old-coronavirus-patients-us-we-looked-hospitalization-data-19-states/2922646001/).

So it's not like younger people will be able to just jump back into work and shake off a coronavirus infection like it's a mild cold. At the very least, they'll need to self-quarantine for 14 days. This will translate into a natural labor pool shortage that will have to force a business to close down anyway (ex. I'm some dumbshit Libertarian who is itching to reopen his bar and grill. Lord Trump decrees that I can. I reopen at full capacity and two weeks later, my entire staff has to self-quarantine).

There's zero path right now to reopening the economy. If you do so, you'll get the same economic damage we're going through right now but more deaths and people sick, which will contribute even more economic damage down the road.

I'm no economist, but why can't we put a moratorium on debt for a year? The reason many small businesses will probably fold over this crisis because they won't be able to pay the banks and other creditors. Why do the banks need the money right now? Where will it go? To a group of rich assholes who don't need the money anyway? And why would banks need to be flush with extra capital right now when no one in their right mind would "borrow" to, you know, start something like business because it isn't the best fuckin time to start a business at the moment.

Banks basically just circulate money from payers to borrowers, and if borrower demand is low, what's the point of foreclosing on a debtor right now other than pure greed? (Guess I answered my own question. I'm sure a bunch of shitheels are licking their chops at all the devalued assets they'll be able to pick up during the crisis and sit on for a decade).

There's no scenario where the vast majority of rich people/banks/corps lose money. Now, re-articulate your thought based on that certainty.

And let me add banks need to be flush with money because there's going to be a solid amount of bankruptcies, due to the usual suspects: healthcare costs, unpaid mortgages, defaulted loans, etc. Takes some time to bundle those and sell them at a loss, and they're too big to fail, so we socialize the bailout per par.

[Millennial_Messiah]

23K+ and rising. Economy going up not down.

[Winehole23]

23K+ and rising. Economy going up not down.Big gains coincided with another big figure unemployment -- 6.6 million filed for unemployment in the newest report. Looking at the pattern, it's starting to look like 6.5 miilion to 7 million applications/week represents the capacity of the system, not the volume of the filers.

Economy getting better? 16-17 million people recently put out of work may feel otherwise.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Big gains coincided with another big figure unemployment -- 6.6 million filed for unemployment in the newest report. Looking at the pattern, it's starting to look like 6.5 miilion to 7 million applications/week represents the capacity of the system, not the volume of the filers.

Economy getting better? 16-17 million people recently put out of work may feel otherwise.

so when is the dow goin' down? If stocks are going up, the economy is going up.

[Winehole23]

The DJIA isn't the economy, certainly not for anyone who works for somebody else for a living. It's an index of 30 blue chip stocks, how can it credibly stand for the whole US economy?

[Spurtacular]

So the economy reopens. Then what? The industries that are being hardest hit are hospitality jobs that rely on frequent close human-to-human interaction in crowded spaces (bars, restaurants, clubs, theaters, etc). Do these idiots think that once Lord Trump declares American open for business, that people are going to pack those establishments like before? No way in Hell.

If they're not going back anyways, then what you got to worry about?

[Winehole23]

DOW IS UP, ECONOMY IS DOING GREAT

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN21R3JI

[CosmicCowboy]

I know I am seeing a big blowback from this shit. I have had several customers pull back on planned projects and some have closed their doors. My phone calls are about 1/4 what they normally are. Businesses are using it as their excuse not to pay their Bill's. That shit eventually starts to cascade and take other businesses down.

[rmt]

I know I am seeing a big blowback from this shit. I have had several customers pull back on planned projects and some have closed their doors. My phone calls are about 1/4 what they normally are. Businesses are using it as their excuse not to pay their Bill's. That shit eventually starts to cascade and take other businesses down.

Yep. My tenant is not dependent on any business closing down or losing his job. He and his wife collect social security which has not stopped coming. He was already 2 months behind when this started. Rent was due on 3/23. Got half of it on 4/3 and he's stalling for the other half. Soon, it'll be 4/23 and rent will be due again.

[boutons_deux]

Too Big to Fail, COVID-19 Edition:

How Private Equity Is Winning the Coronavirus Crisis

https://media.vanityfair.com/photos/5e8f63295752fb00088317c1/master/w_2560%2Cc_limit/bethany-mclean-private-equity-cornavirus-bail-out.png

Thanks to the $2 trillion bipartisan bailout bill, the industry’s coronavirus losses will belong to all of us.

among those angling for a federal handout (https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Behind-the-scenes-private-equity-angles-for-a-15182768.php?utm_campaign=CMS%20Sharing%20Tools%20 (Desktop)&utm_source=share-by-email&utm_medium=email) is one of the wealthiest sectors of the American economy: private equity.

These firms not only have a record $1.5 trillion (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/03/private-equitys-record-cash-pile-comes-with-a-new-set-of-challenges.html) in cash on the sidelines, waiting to be invested,

but their CEOs (https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/10/business/dealbook/just-how-much-do-the-top-private-equity-earners-make.html) are among America’s richest executives.

So why should they be permitted to raid the federal Treasury in a time of crisis?

its losses, to a remarkable degree, will belong to all of us.

That’s because some of the major investors in private-equity funds are public pension plans;

at Blackstone, roughly one-third of the firm’s money comes from retirement plans set up to provide for over 30 million working-class Americans

So if Blackstone’s investments crater, the teachers, firefighters, and health care workers who are counting on those investments to generate the returns necessary to pay their pensions will suffer.

Think of private-equity firms as the banks of the corona crisis:

They are, for better or worse, too big to fail.

Unlike venture capitalists, who provide start-up funds to new companies, private-equity firms generally take over existing businesses, usually by borrowing large sums of money.

private-equity firms typically double (https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2018/02/private-equity-overvalued-overrated/) the amount of debt relative to profits on a company’s balance sheet.

One of the key principles behind private equity is that increased leverage

—aka more debt—can make a business function more efficiently. :lol

they often overpaid for the companies they acquired, and

loaded them up with so much debt that “even a mild economic downturn could make it nearly impossible for those companies to repay their loans,”

companies owned by private-equity firms could simply refinance their debts at lower rates,

thereby getting a fresh lease on life.

(:lol Krugman calls them zombie companies, living dead, they're dead companies, but low interest rates keep them alive)

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/04/how-private-equity-is-winning-the-coronavirus-crisis?utm_source=nl&utm_brand=vf&utm_mailing=VF_Hive_041020&utm_medium=email&bxid=5bd6795524c17c1048022fcc&cndid=43758549&hasha=992d608214b505003aa04bf10a595031&hashb=542eb31d958e85ddd5a4c3ccf3faae18526a77bd&hashc=54b3612ab970ce13a64a16665b1987080ca5b72e2ee7 62b722fbba6ab378f2f5&esrc=bounceX&utm_campaign=VF_Hive_041020&utm_term=VYF_Hive

So suckering pension funds into p/e's risky grubby hands, p/e has immunized itself against failure, guaranteed it will get bailed out.

Fuck Capitalism, FUCK Capitalists.

[midnightpulp]

I know I am seeing a big blowback from this shit. I have had several customers pull back on planned projects and some have closed their doors. My phone calls are about 1/4 what they normally are. Businesses are using it as their excuse not to pay their Bill's. That shit eventually starts to cascade and take other businesses down.

And that's equally as shitty and greedy as anything else. If we want out of this crisis without the economy in ruins, it's going to require that we have each other's back as a society for once. I'm still looking for some coordinated and legit nationwide "small business relief" charity to donate to.

[CosmicCowboy]

Talked to one of my customers Wednesday that works for a major chicken producer. Those guys are getting slaughtered. With restaurants shut down there is more supply than demand even though grocery store shelves may be empty. All the commercial freezer space is full of chickens already processed. Tyson and the other big boys already had to euthanize 20% of their flock because they had no place to put the birds when processed.

[boutons_deux]

we have each other's back as a society for once.

The controlling powers absolutely do not want solidarity and combined action by citizens.

That's why the oligarchy has been busting unions for 45 years.

United Labor stands, divided Labor (no union) falls.

When you can't make good money because it's you alone, no union power, against the employer, when you are chained to your shitty job, shitty manager, shitty company for the group health insurance, you STFU and take whatever is offered.

That's one of the main reasons BigCorp blocks medicare for all.

If people had govt health insurance and health care, then Labor could be mobile, and wouldn't put up with shitty jobs and shitty pay.

Capitalism DEPENDS on Labor being oppressed into financial, fearful precarity and feckless, powerless subservience

Any sort of cooperation among citizens, "have each other's back", gets the knee-jerk, derisive label "socialism" then the stupid, ignorant citizens who have been brain-washed, indoctrinated to Palov-ianly respond "socialism is bad"

[CosmicCowboy]

Small business disaster program unravels because Congress wouldn't pass the increase...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/09/business/smallbusiness/small-business-disaster-loans-coronavirus.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_NN_p_20200410&instance_id=17527&nl=morning-briefing&regi_id=109052742&section=topNews&segment_id=24620&te=1&user_id=92cf8993db454e620d8a776b700ac9d9

Flooded by requests for help like never before, a federal disaster loan program that was supposed to deliver emergency relief to small businesses in just three days has run low on funding and nearly frozen up entirely. Now, business owners who applied are desperate for cash and answers about what aid, if any, they are going to receive.

The initiative, known as the Economic Injury Disaster Loan program, is an expansion of an emergency system run by the Small Business Administration that has for years helped companies after natural disasters like hurricanes, floods and tornadoes. To speed billions of dollars in aid along, the government directly funds the loans, sparing applicants the step of finding a lender willing to work with them.

But in the face of the pandemic, the loan program is drowning in requests. Many applicants have waited weeks for approval, with little to no information about where they stand, and others are being told they’ll get a fraction of what they expected.

The program is supposed to offer loans of up to $2 million, but many recent applicants said the S.B.A. help line had told them that loans would be capped at $15,000 per borrower. That was backed up by a message from the agency that one applicant shared with The New York Times.

[boutons_deux]

Any guesses how FAST p/e, BigCorp, BigFinance, the oligarchy will get their $Ts?

[boutons_deux]

And how about the "small businesses", fully owned subsidiaries, created by BigCorp to steal Federal money intended for independent small businesses?

[Trill Clinton]

I'm all for having a debt jubilee. Right now is the perfect time for it.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

23K+ and rising. Economy going up not down.

Lol 22 year old lil millenial equates market with economy

[CosmicCowboy]

Lol 22 year old lil millenial equates market with economy

It's cold blooded as hell but the stock market has figured out that the Covid19 isn't seriously impacting the "upper class". Deaths in the Bronx are 8X what they are in Manhattan.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/nyc-stark-contrast-covid-19-infection-rates-based/story?id=69920706

[rmt]

The controlling powers absolutely do not want solidarity and combined action by citizens.

That's why the oligarchy has been busting unions for 45 years.

United Labor stands, divided Labor (no union) falls.

When you can't make good money because it's you alone, no union power, against the employer, when you are chained to your shitty job, shitty manager, shitty company for the group health insurance, you STFU and take whatever is offered.

That's one of the main reasons BigCorp blocks medicare for all.

If people had govt health insurance and health care, then Labor could be mobile, and wouldn't put up with shitty jobs and shitty pay.

Capitalism DEPENDS on Labor being oppressed into financial, fearful precarity and feckless, powerless subservience

Any sort of cooperation among citizens, "have each other's back", gets the knee-jerk, derisive label "socialism" then the stupid, ignorant citizens who have been brain-washed, indoctrinated to Palov-ianly respond "socialism is bad"

Bou, this is such a DEFEATIST attitude. Get off this board, look around and do something to change your circumstances instead of railing against OLIGARCHY, capitalism, etc. I had no way of earning money when I CHOSE to homeschool my kids up to high school, and I found a way.

On a side bar, this is one of the reasons why I hate Obamacare which forced/penalized young people for not carrying health insurance. When you are young (and usually healthy - I never had ANY health insurance until I was 22), that is when you should be building up your financial foundation. ACA pays for the old and sick on the backs of the young and healthy.

[pgardn]

Bou, this is such a DEFEATIST attitude. Get off this board, look around and do something to change your circumstances instead of railing against OLIGARCHY, capitalism, etc. I had no way of earning money when I CHOSE to homeschool my kids up to high school, and I found a way.

On a side bar, this is one of the reasons why I hate Obamacare which forced/penalized young people for not carrying health insurance. When you are young (and usually healthy - I never had ANY health insurance until I was 22), that is when you should be building up your financial foundation. ACA pays for the old and sick on the backs of the young and healthy.

On the sidebar:

Yes that’s the basic idea behind healthcare, you pay in young, you get payed back with health care when older. Shared risk. But when the profit motive is applied, shared risk may not work privately. No, I would say it has not worked. But, but... socialism... Your red team had a plan... but they lied and did not.

[rmt]

On the sidebar:

Yes that’s the basic idea behind healthcare, you pay in young, you get payed back with health care when older. Shared risk. But when the profit motive is applied, shared risk may not work privately. No, I would say it has not worked. But, but... socialism... Your red team had a plan... but they lied and did not.

With the ACA, premium variations based on age are limited to a ratio of three to one (meaning the premiums for a 64 year-old is three times the premium for a 21 year-old). Previously, premium variations based on age were more typically about five to one. Since a lot of you on this board are young, you are paying MUCH more in premiums than you did previous to ACA (not to mention HAVING to buy it or pay a penalty - before it was zeroed out).

[pgardn]

With the ACA, premium variations based on age are limited to a ratio of three to one (meaning the premiums for a 64 year-old is three times the premium for a 21 year-old). Previously, premium variations based on age were more typically about five to one. Since a lot of you on this board are young, you are paying MUCH more in premiums than you did previous to ACA (not to mention HAVING to buy it or pay a penalty - before it was zeroed out).

Sounds like auto insurance which makes sense. Old and young get penalized and pay more because per capita they cause more accidents. I don’t equate health care insurance with auto insurance necessarily. Especially when our current health care is so bad it can send a middle income hard worker into bankruptcy VERY easily.

[Xevious]

Talked to one of my customers Wednesday that works for a major chicken producer. Those guys are getting slaughtered. With restaurants shut down there is more supply than demand even though grocery store shelves may be empty. All the commercial freezer space is full of chickens already processed. Tyson and the other big boys already had to euthanize 20% of their flock because they had no place to put the birds when processed.
That's some fucking shit right there. Obviously I don't know the whole story, but you telling me there isn't someplace they can donate that meat to?

[Xevious]

As for the OP... I agree that there is no path to complete reopening right now. Hospitals would be hammered, people would be dying in their homes, and businesses would be shut down eventually anyway.

[pgardn]

That's some fucking shit right there. Obviously I don't know the whole story, but you telling me there isn't someplace they can donate that meat to?

It costs money to process them and transport/keep in low temps. Probably much easier (less loss$) to just kill them.

Come get live chickens is not gonna work.
There is a $ motive. They got stockholders and workers to take care of.

Capitalism clearly hits rough times this pandemic.

So it’s a balancing act:

Stimulus (socialism leading to cheating)
Back to work (economy v. fewer customers and even more fear and death)
Cont with your own favorites.

[CosmicCowboy]

That's some fucking shit right there. Obviously I don't know the whole story, but you telling me there isn't someplace they can donate that meat to?

Raw chicken? Ever heard of salmonella?

[Spurs Homer]

There is a thing called -

GREED

that will shitcan all of these fantasies in this thread.


GREED will be what prevails - to the detriment of us all.

[Xevious]

Raw chicken? Ever heard of salmonella?
Obviously not raw chicken. But the frozen/processed chicken they can't sell. Then they'd have the room to process the other chicken. But if it's financial problem, so be it. Just seems a waste.

[rascal]

That's pretty hypothetical. The typical shopping center is owned by a REIT that pools money from individual investors that depend on the monthly income derived from the rents after the REIT takes its management fee. Or even an individual investors who has " made it" according to you...he puts down 20%, borrows the rest and has monthly payments that the rent almost covers. No rent, no payments, he gets foreclosed on and loses everything.

No foreclosures for anyone so he won't have to worry about being foreclosed himself.

[rascal]

There is a thing called -

GREED

that will shitcan all of these fantasies in this thread.


GREED will be what prevails - to the detriment of us all.

Capitalism is built on Greed.

[SpursforSix]

Capitalism is built on Greed.

Wrong. It's corrupted by greed. Just like any system whether it be communism, socialism or capitalism.

[Spurs Homer]

Wrong. It's corrupted by greed. Just like any system whether it be communism, socialism or capitalism.

im sure you can go a step further:

it is also - rewarded -

those greediest and most corrupt - get rewarded $$$ -

[SpursforSix]

im sure you can go a step further:

it is also - rewarded -

those greediest and most corrupt - get rewarded $$$ -

I agree with this. 100%. All systems probably work if everyone strictly follows the system. But so far, for the most part, people have shown that if they can one-up someone else, they will.

[spurraider21]

23K+ and rising. Economy going up not down.
Stock market isn’t the economy

[boutons_deux]

the stock market is The Economy, it's a bunch of wealthies buying low now to sell high

[Winehole23]

so when is the dow goin' down? When the second order effects of mass unemployment, an inadequate bailout and halfassed COVID-19 mitigation become apparent.

[rmt]

No foreclosures for anyone so he won't have to worry about be foreclosed himself.

What about one's credit? Is that frozen too?

[rascal]

What about one's credit? Is that frozen too?

yes

[CosmicCowboy]

At this point only for three months. It's not debt forgiveness. You still owe it in three months.

[rmt]

At this point only for three months. It's not debt forgiveness. You still owe it in three months.

So, if I don't pay my rent/mortgage, utilities, bills - it won't affect my credit rating for 3 months?

[baseline bum]

Trump and McConnell got their no oversight corporate bailout. Now they're going to open the country to keep from paying all the unemployment.

[SnakeBoy]

How many of you have a Che Guevara t-shirt in your closet?

[DMC]

How many of you have a Che Guevara t-shirt in your closet?

Right above those Air Jordans.

[ElNono]

How many of you have a Che Guevara t-shirt in your closet?

been considering tattooing him on my calves, tbh

[Winehole23]

How many of you have a Che Guevara t-shirt in your closet?My guess would be zero.

What makes you think someone does?

[Winehole23]

When the second order effects of mass unemployment, an inadequate bailout and halfassed COVID-19 mitigation become apparent.Housing crash 2.0? Many links in the thread.

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