The Substitution Patterns Suck Tonight

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Are we just trying to play as many different combinations, or what?

Glad to see we left Tony on the bench for the entirety of the game going from tied to Dallas up 19.

22-3 run while Tony sat and Devin Harris smoked Van Exel to the tune of 9 points and 3 assists.

Really, it's okay to play Tony, Pop. He's young. He's in shape. You don't get points for timeouts left at the end of the game, either.

:pctoss

[ducks]

I agree
when tp went out
the game was tied
when po took nve out the spurs were down 17

pop put tp in at 8:40 mark in 4
what the hell

[ZStomp]

:lol

Bitching #1 of the year for AHF!

It was an awful game indeed.

[mouse]

One word............................


POP




http://www.atomicarchive.com/Photos/LANL/images/mohawk.jpg

[E20]

I agree with AHF.

[HB22inSA]

This is exactly why the Spurs have no chance of winning 70 this year.

And they may not win 60, either.

Pop doesn't care how many games they win in the regular season, he wants to see how his players play together, and which combinations work best.

[Leetonidas]

Here we go again. :lol

[E20]

I agree with HB22inSA as well.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I'm coming back to this thread to go further.

This loss is on Pop.

The substitutions sucked all night. It looked like a fucking preseason game. How many different combinations of players can you come up with in a night? I think Pop found out tonight.

And Pop has always switched the Dallas pick and roll. ALWAYS. Well tonight Dirk is fucking on, and switching a PG onto Dirk is pretty much giving them an automatic basket every fucking time.

Yeah, I'm a Pophater, and some will throw that card out there, fuck you all.

It's hard for players to get in any kind of a rhythm when they have a new guy standing next to them after 2 minutes, and leaving Nick in there while Devin torched him and turned a tie game into a 20 point lead was asinine.

And to top it all off, I'm gonna hear about it all day long Monday from my POS Dallas Maverick loving co-workers.

Thanks for nothing Pop. Time to go get drunk.



















P.S. - Kori Made Me Do it

[Leetonidas]

It's the third game of the season, calm down. Did you expect them to go 82-0? I don't care if we lose by 1 or lose by 20. A loss is a loss and a win is a win.

[ChumpDumper]

Small ball experiment #1.

Results: mixed but generally negative.

[td4mvp21]

I agree with AggieHoopsFan. Pop needs to quit messing with rotations so much and stick with the lineups he knows works. And you would think that as good of a coach as Pop is he would be able to inspire a team to a victory and make the right decisions. Good thing this is the first road game of the season.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

It is a pre-season game

[TwoHandJam]

Wake me up when we lose to Detroit, Miami, Indiana or Houston. How is this much different than losing to say, the Warriors? Wake me up when we lose to a contender and it isn't in November. :sleep

[ChumpDumper]

I agree with AggieHoopsFan. Pop needs to quit messing with rotations so much and stick with the lineups he knows works. And you would think that as good of a coach as Pop is he would be able to inspire a team to a victory and make the right decisions. Good thing this is the first road game of the season.The only thing that worked tonight was Tony's Iverson impression.

[mouse]

This is exactly why the Spurs have no chance of winning 70 this year.

And they may not win 60, either.

Pop doesn't care how many games they win in the regular season, he wants to see how his players play together, and which combinations work best.


did you say any of this Prior to tonigh's ass waxing?

[HB22inSA]

Yes, Mouse, I haven't hopped on the "Spurs are the greatest team in the World and will win every game and lets' just hand them the Championship right now" Bandwagon.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

TwoHand,

I'd just like to see us do something against Dallas besides make Avery look like the second coming of Wooden.

Is that too much to ask?

Save the dicking around with the rotations for the scrub teams, and not teams that will be contending with you for home court advantage throughout the playoffs.

[slayermin]

When nothing seems to help, I go and look at a stonecutter hammering away at his rock perhaps a hundred times without as much as a crack showing in it. Yet at the hundred and first blow it will split in two, and I know it was not that blow that did it, but all that had gone before.

I think there is still a chance for 70 though I'm not gonna hold my breath. Of the twelve losses the Spurs would suffer for a 70 win season, at Dallas would be a tough win, anyway you cut it.

[TexasAggie2005]

What was up with the one lineup that was like: NVE, Finley, Barry, Ginobili, and Oberto (note, this may not be exactly right, but it was four SG/SFs and Oberto)? What happened to using your size to give you an advantage? I think Pop's a great coach, but sometimes he plays too much to other team's strengths. We have Duncan, Nazr, and Rasho, they should never all three be on the bench at the same time.

[mouse]

Yes, Mouse, I haven't hopped on the "Spurs are the greatest team in the World and will win every game and lets' just hand them the Championship right now" Bandwagon.


show me the post that proves that...................

[Tobias]

Well Slayer, these Mavs are a tougher team than the Raptors that beat the 70-win Bulla.

[benjirh]

all pop's fault. no blame should go to ginobili's second straight brick-fest or to defense for the fact that they let the mavs run all over them on offense. open your eyes. yes i was pissed at pop, but the team played in spurts and that won't cut it against good offensive teams.

[ChumpDumper]

What was up with the one lineup that was like: NVE, Finley, Barry, Ginobili, and Oberto (note, this may not be exactly right, but it was four SG/SFs and Oberto)? What happened to using your size to give you an advantage? I think Pop's a great coach, but sometimes he plays too much to other team's strengths. We have Duncan, Nazr, and Rasho, they should never all three be on the bench at the same time.Welcome to the laboratory. Expect more of the same until February or until we get a big man who approaches an Olowokandiesque level of consistency.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

defense for the fact that they let the mavs run all over them on offense. open your eyes.

Considering the Spurs defense is based on trust, it's kinda hard to blame the D when you don't know who the fuck is standing next to you from one play to the next because your coach is subbing like it's a fucking pre-season game.

Shit, at one point we had NVE, Barry, Finley, Bowen, and Oberto out there.

1. How is that line up going to stop anyone?
2. How much offensive flow are you expecting out of that group?

[ChumpDumper]

Pop was conceding defeat as soon as he olled out small ball, but really -- no big other than Duncan had much business being out there tonight.

[TwoHandJam]

TwoHand,

I'd just like to see us do something against Dallas besides make Avery look like the second coming of Wooden.

Is that too much to ask?

Save the dicking around with the rotations for the scrub teams, and not teams that will be contending with you for home court advantage throughout the playoffs.
I agree it was maddening to watch Pop's substitution patterns but I don't agree that we will be contending with the Mavs for HCA throughout the playoffs. If the team we have this year is in a tight race for HCA with the Mavs, then we'll probably have a much bigger problem than Pop's substitution patterns in November.

[TexasAggie2005]

Pop was coceding defeat as soon as he olled out small ball, but really -- no big other than Duncan had much business being out there tonight.

I thought Rasho played well in very limited minutes, and Nazr barely saw the floor.

Rasho: 16 minutes, 3-6 shooting, 6 pts, 5 rebounds (3 off), 1 steal, 1 TO

[beirmeistr]

Reality check for the Spurs. When the opponent shows more hustle and more concentration on the game, the Spurs can lose the game. This was not a memorable game by any means. Bowen, Ginobili, and Horry are still looking for their shooting touch. Parker looks very good on some of his penetrations but he needs to distribute the ball now and then. He is not supposed to be Allan Iverson. Mohammed's hands frustrate the hell out of me. The mavs played a great game and they deserved the win.

[TexasAggie2005]

I agree it was maddening to watch Pop's substitution patterns but I don't agree that we will be contending with the Mavs for HCA throughout the playoffs. If the team we have this year is in a tight race for HCA with the Mavs, then we'll probably have a much bigger problem than Pop's substitution patterns in November.

Don't underestimate the Mavs, this is the first year in a while they don't have to deal with any major offseason trades/signings and Avery's a good coach. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Mavs finish with one of the top three or four records in the West.

[TDMVPDPOY]

gino missed alot of shots, finley didnt show up, nve was abused on the court, and tim duncan our team mvp only has 12 touches?

fuck this tony parker bs , i dont care if his shot is improving, he should not be first scoring option n jackin up shots like his plzes

[ChumpDumper]

I thought Rasho played well in very limited minutes, and Nazr barely saw the floor.

Rasho: 16 minutes, 3-6 shooting, 6 pts, 5 rebounds (3 off), 1 steal, 1 TORasho allowed the Mavs position on the boards and wasn't up to par on his rotation. He got some extra time because he was the only other player besides Bruce to show anything close to an ability to guard Dirk.

Nazr held on to the ball once.

Oberto could start, but just for a change, not merit.

Annoying, but looks like it may be this way for awhile.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

TwoHand,

The Mavs have just as much talent up and down their roster as the Spurs do (they even have a few pieces I wish we had - like Howard).

And in Avery they have a coach who is more adept at thinking out of the box. This is a different Mavs team than we have been able to count on pissing away their season in years past.

Avery is the catalyst for that.

And as far as HCA goes, Dallas is better than all but probably 4-5 teams in the league, so they will be racking up the wins as well.

[ChumpDumper]

gino missed alot of shots, finley didnt show up, nve was abused on the court, and tim duncan our team mvp only has 12 touches?

fuck this tony parker bs , i dont care if his shot is improving, he should not be first scoring option n jackin up shots like his plzesI'd agree if Tony wasn't shooting 62% from the floor.

[Brutalis]

I'm coming back to this thread to go further.

This loss is on Pop.

The substitutions sucked all night. It looked like a fucking preseason game. How many different combinations of players can you come up with in a night? I think Pop found out tonight.

And Pop has always switched the Dallas pick and roll. ALWAYS. Well tonight Dirk is fucking on, and switching a PG onto Dirk is pretty much giving them an automatic basket every fucking time.

Yeah, I'm a Pophater, and some will throw that card out there, fuck you all.

It's hard for players to get in any kind of a rhythm when they have a new guy standing next to them after 2 minutes, and leaving Nick in there while Devin torched him and turned a tie game into a 20 point lead was asinine.

And to top it all off, I'm gonna hear about it all day long Monday from my POS Dallas Maverick loving co-workers.

Thanks for nothing Pop. Time to go get drunk.



















P.S. - Kori Made Me Do it


If you noticed, he used a lot of the same patterns vrs the Cavs, it was just wayyy less affective. No big deal. After 20 games or so things will be running smoothly I bet.

[TwoHandJam]

Don't underestimate the Mavs, this is the first year in a while they don't have to deal with any major offseason trades/signings and Avery's a good coach. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Mavs finish with one of the top three or four records in the West.
Avery hasn't coached nearly enough games to know whether he's a good coach or not yet. And I'll say it again, if the team we have this year can't avoid a close race with the Mavs for HCA then something will really be wrong. The Mavs are a good team but these Spurs should (barring injury) be a great team.

[TwoHandJam]

TwoHand,

The Mavs have just as much talent up and down their roster as the Spurs do (they even have a few pieces I wish we had - like Howard).Um, no. Lets not go overboard here. The Spurs are both more talented and more experienced from top to bottom.


And in Avery they have a coach who is more adept at thinking out of the box. This is a different Mavs team than we have been able to count on pissing away their season in years past.

Avery is the catalyst for that.

And as far as HCA goes, Dallas is better than all but probably 4-5 teams in the league, so they will be racking up the wins as well.That is yet to be seen. Avery hasn't nearly coached enough games for his record to be statistically significant.

[TexasAggie2005]

Avery hasn't coached nearly enough games to know whether he's a good coach or not yet. And I'll say it again, if the team we have this year can't avoid a close race with the Mavs for HCA then something will really be wrong. The Mavs are a good team but these Spurs should (barring injury) be a great team.

If the Mavs aren't going to give us competition, who is? Or are you one of those people who thinks we're going to finish way out in front of everyone else? And I'll say it, Avery's a good coach. He might as well have been coaching the Mavs most of last year and he's done a good job so far this year. You don't pull the reins from Don Nelson to give them to some scrub who doesn't know what he's doing.

[Kori Ellis]

AHF has to be the most predictable person alive.

[SequSpur]

And in Avery they have a coach who is more adept at thinking out of the box. This is a different Mavs team than we have been able to count on pissing away their season in years past.


Compared to who?

Avery fucking sucks. What did he do in the playoffs last year? He turned the Mavs into a piece of shit team that was better off taking a pick in the lottery.

Game 3 of the regular season doesn't mean shit.

Pop should be now convinced. Beno, Rasho and Nazr fucking suck.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

That is yet to be seen. Avery hasn't nearly coached enough games for his record to be statistically significant.

Hmm, he's beat us by an average of 25 the last two meetings.

Also, no one has caught on to all of my second post yet.... y'all are missing something ;)

[TwoHandJam]

If the Mavs aren't going to give us competition, who is? Or are you one of those people who thinks we're going to finish way out in front of everyone else?
Forgive me if you think I'm being an optimist by thinking a team that just came off a spectacular championship run and kept its core intact while adding quality vets is reason to think they'll improve.


And I'll say it, Avery's a good coach. You can say it but I'm sorry that you just have very little hard evidence to back it up with.


He might as well have been coaching the Mavs most of last year and he's done a good job so far this year. You don't pull the reins from Don Nelson to give them to some scrub who doesn't know what he's doing. Are you saying that Cuban knows what he's doing when it comes to making basketball decisions? Lets face it, Nellie had a lot of time to get things done with the Mavs and he came up short many times over. Handing the reins over to Johnson may or may not have been prudent but letting Nellie continue to run that team wasn't doing them any favors.

[ChumpDumper]

JSpeaking of weird lineups Casey broke out the first effective hree point guard lineup since, what, Phoenix back in the KJ days? Jaric, AC and Alfre Woodard.

[TwoHandJam]

Hmm, he's beat us by an average of 25 the last two meetings.

Also, no one has caught on to all of my second post yet.... y'all are missing something ;)
Can you elaborate a bit on the circumstances behind the last game we lost to them before tonight or was that omitted for a reason?

What's the Mavs' record against us outside of the regular season these past years?

C'mon Aggie, I know you're agitated but this is November, remember?







PS - Somewhere, Kori is laughing.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

It wasn't omitted for a reason, I was just lazy.

PS, from page 1, my second post...


P.S. - Kori Made Me Do it

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28195

:spin

I'm actually in a good mood, I won $300 off my Ags tonight.

[TexasAggie2005]

Forgive me if you think I'm being an optimist by thinking a team that just came off a spectacular championship run and kept its core intact while adding quality vets is reason to think they'll improve.

I think it's a bit too optimistic to assume we won't be having any competition for home court advantage and too early to exclude the Mavericks from the teams we might be competing with. We haven't improved enough to assume we're going to run away with it.

And Cuban wasn't the one making the decision. Nellie stepped aside. Whether you like Nellie or not, he's still a damn good basketball coach and if he recognized enough potential in Avery to step aside for him, I respect that. Avery also did a lot of the work coaching the Mavs before Nellie resigned.

[Dalamar_the_Dark]

Hey hey hey guys calm down. This game was thrown to thank Mark Cuban for letting Finley sign for us. The writing was on the wall already. Pop threw the game. It was part of the deal to let Finley sign with us. Pop was just his usual early season horsing around with his rotations. Im in this for the long run. This is a league not a knockout system. There are 79 more games to go so let up on the slamming.

[SenorSpur]

I wondered about that too. Those substitution patterns were strange. Tony was unstoppable tonight, but Pop chose to go with Nick much longer than he probably should have. No way Nick could keep up with Devin Harris.

[HB22inSA]

show me the post that proves that...................
Check all of my posts in the "Call it; 5 game road tip" thread.

You must have me confused with someone else.

[leemajors]

aggie, did you take tech and the spread? my friends who went to vegas were drooling on that sure money...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

aggie, did you take tech and the spread? my friends who went to vegas were drooling on that sure money...

Si. $300 richer tonight. :bling Need to send Fran and Torbush a thank you card.

[Admidave50]

what's up with the "TP hate"? With Horry, Finley, Manu and Bowen combining 5/29 we should be happy that another Spur besides Duncan is providing with scoring!

I agree he should have more assists but Pop benched him too long..

[adrien]

Are we just trying to play as many different combinations, or what?

Glad to see we left Tony on the bench for the entirety of the game going from tied to Dallas up 19.

22-3 run while Tony sat and Devin Harris smoked Van Exel to the tune of 9 points and 3 assists.

Really, it's okay to play Tony, Pop. He's young. He's in shape. You don't get points for timeouts left at the end of the game, either.

:pctoss

I agree. Just want to add that tony is a better defender people hink he is. Harris scored only 6pts when he was on the court and terry 0pt.

[SouthernFried]

I think Pop shoulda pulled out all the stops to win this one tonight. First road game, against Dallas where Home court advantage could come into play, set the tone for the rest of the road trip.

Experiment with lineups next week, but start on a positive note.

Finley, NVE, Oberto all still look lost out there. They are more concerned right now about not scewing up the team, than contributing to it. And if you getting killed inside, bring in big guys...Nazr playing only 5 minutes? Gimme a break.

Get your core working, then start experimenting...not vice versa, and not against Dallas.

Hopefully Pop learned something from this game.

[wildbill2u]

Are we just trying to play as many different combinations, or what?

Glad to see we left Tony on the bench for the entirety of the game going from tied to Dallas up 19.

22-3 run while Tony sat and Devin Harris smoked Van Exel to the tune of 9 points and 3 assists.

Really, it's okay to play Tony, Pop. He's young. He's in shape. You don't get points for timeouts left at the end of the game, either.

:pctoss

Pop doesn't care. He's willing to absorb an occasional loss during the season to experiment with lineups. He likes to tinker. That's the secret about understanding Pop.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I think all of us know he likes to tinker.

Point was, anyone who thinks they are a contender, we need to be going out and burying to crush their will.

Save the tinkering for sorry teams.