BJ armstrong just said that Tim Duncan is the #2 player all time

[Genovaswitness]

max asked him who would be the #2, hakeem (lol), lebron (3-6 LOL), BJ armstrong said that tim duncan was the most unique, versatile player he's seen other than jordan. a true scholar :toast

[Dirks_Finale]

And I wouldn't even argue against it.

I've always thought if you put Tim in another system which required more selfishness, he is putting up playstation type numbers.

[Chucho]

How many players play 19 years as a starter and make the POs every season, let alone your squad is almost always in the contender conversation during that time frame?

That alone speaks volumes to even casual fans.

Tim didn't do this when there was only 8 teams and 90% of the league was white. He did this is a far more competitive and physical era in a much larger league.

He is simply incredible and under appreciated.

[daslicer]

How many players play 19 years as a starter and make the POs every season, let alone your squad is almost always in the contender conversation during that time frame?

That alone speaks volumes to even casual fans.

Tim didn't do this when there was only 8 teams and 90% of the league was white. He did this is a far more competitive and physical era in a much larger league.

He is simply incredible and under appreciated.

Haters and the media "Well he only had success because he had Pop. Pop made him great in that system. Without Pop he's nothing."

[daslicer]

And I wouldn't even argue against it.

I've always thought if you put Tim in another system which required more selfishness, he is putting up playstation type numbers.

Agreed. I felt Tim always showed how dominant he could be during the playoffs. They were series where he would average over 30 points and 10 rebounds like that series he had against the Mavs in '06.

[ace3g]

How many players play 19 years as a starter and make the POs every season, let alone your squad is almost always in the contender conversation during that time frame?

That alone speaks volumes to even casual fans.

Tim didn't do this when there was only 8 teams and 90% of the league was white. He did this is a far more competitive and physical era in a much larger league.

He is simply incredible and under appreciated.

Only 9 players have made the playoffs every season - Only Karl Malone, Stockton, and Timmy have done it for 19 straight years - Only Timmy has championships (5) out of that list.

Elgin Baylor: 13 seasons, no misses, 1.000
He missed the playoffs in 1971 due to injury and retired nine games in the following season, but the Lakers never failed to qualify in his one-franchise career.


Larry Bird: 13 seasons, no misses, 1.000
Bird missed the postseason in 1989, the year he played in only six games, though the Celtics did not.


Bob Cousy: 13 seasons, no misses, 1.000
We’re not going to hold the 1969-70 season – when Cousy played limited minutes in seven games as Cincinnati’s player-coach, six years after retiring – against him.



Tim Duncan: 19 years, no misses, 1.000
No one in league history has gone 20-for-20, so Duncan and Karl Malone are the best of our 1.000 hitters. Duncan missed the 2000 playoffs due to injury and that was too much for the defending-champion Spurs to overcome, getting ousted by Phoenix in four.



Julius Erving: 11 seasons, no misses, 1.000
And that’s just his NBA years. The Doctor went 5-for-5 in the ABA, twice winning titles with the Nets and averaging 31.1 points and 12.9 boards in those five postseasons.



Magic Johnson: 13 seasons, no misses, 1.000
This even includes his limited 1995-96 season, a forgettable 32-game comeback after four years of retirement.



Karl Malone: 19 seasons, no misses, 1.000
The Mailman’s running buddy, John Stockton, never missed, either, in his 19-year Hall of Fame career.



Bill Russell: 13 seasons, no misses, 1.000
The idea of this guy and his Boston team sitting out a postseason is unimaginable.



Jerry West: 13 seasons, no misses, 1.000
West was such a noble and, with the exception of the Lakers’ title in ’72, ill-fated playoff performer that he was named Finals MVP in 1970 from the losing side.


https://www.nba.com/article/2019/03/12/nba-legends-missing-out-playoffs

[daslicer]

How many players play 19 years as a starter and make the POs every season, let alone your squad is almost always in the contender conversation during that time frame?

That alone speaks volumes to even casual fans.

Tim didn't do this when there was only 8 teams and 90% of the league was white. He did this is a far more competitive and physical era in a much larger league.

He is simply incredible and under appreciated.

There is only 2 players I have ahead of Tim. Those 2 are Jordan and Jabbar. They edge Tim out due to having more rings, mvps, along with being more dominant. Outside of those 2 there is no players that has a better combination of dominance and winning as Duncan did.

[Gibbz]

I'll only put MJ ahead of Timmy. I've heard Jabbar was MJ-level but I haven't seen enough of him to know. LeBron is really incredible and is gonna finish with better numbers than pretty much anyone, but he's a mercenary who depends on tampering to form perfect teams around him. There's no way he could ever win a ring with the roster Timmy had in '03.

[daslicer]

I'll only put MJ ahead of Timmy. I've heard Jabbar was MJ-level but I haven't seen enough of him to know. LeBron is really incredible and is gonna finish with better numbers than pretty much anyone, but he's a mercenary who depends on tampering to form perfect teams around him. There's no way he could ever win a ring with the roster Timmy had in '03.

I wonder how Duncan would have done on the 2017 Cavs. If you switch prime Duncan and pair him up with Kyrie and Kevin Love. I would think they would have a better chance at beating the Warriors simply because of the matchup problems Duncan would cause on both ends. Also I think Love and Kyrie would play better with Duncan due to the spacing he would give them.

[FkLA]

If he had played in a a bigger he'd be widely considered a Top 3 player. The Big 3 would be widely considered the best trio ever.

Its ass backwards shit too because it takes more to do what the great Timothy Theodore Duncan did in SA than say what Kobe did in LA. Their are limitations (spending power, attracting FAs) that come with playing for a small market. The Spurs hadn't rang before the great Timothy Theodore Duncan and might not ring after him. The Lakers had plenty of rings before Kobe and will ring plenty after him.

[DMC]

Haters and the media "Well he only had success because he had Pop. Pop made him great in that system. Without Pop he's nothing."

Pop isn't a great coach, he had Tim Duncan so of course he looks good.

Manu is a shit player, he had Tim and Tony, with the greatest coach of all time so of course he looked good.

Tony Parker wasn't that good even in his prime. He had Tim Duncan and Manu on the floor, and Pop coached him strictly so of course he looks better than he is otherwise.

Turns out none of them were any good. Add the asterisks for other teams being injured, shortened seasons, etc... They are still 0fer

[DMC]

I'll only put MJ ahead of Timmy. I've heard Jabbar was MJ-level but I haven't seen enough of him to know. LeBron is really incredible and is gonna finish with better numbers than pretty much anyone, but he's a mercenary who depends on tampering to form perfect teams around him. There's no way he could ever win a ring with the roster Timmy had in '03.

Or '14

[Brazil]

smart dude

[phxspurfan]

I’m sure Kareem was great and all but he was great alongside some awesome players on his teams, in a major favorite market that undoubtedly got helped by those star calls all the time. Imagine if Tim Tony Manu and Bruce played for the Lakers, how many rings they’d have.

Anyway Kareem great and all, skyhook cool shot, but played against a bunch of guys that even when the 90s talent rolled in, got absolutely obliterated. Not in GOAT conversation like Wilt MJ TD Shaq LeBron etc.

[phxspurfan]

I wonder how Duncan would have done on the 2017 Cavs. If you switch prime Duncan and pair him up with Kyrie and Kevin Love. I would think they would have a better chance at beating the Warriors simply because of the matchup problems Duncan would cause on both ends. Also I think Love and Kyrie would play better with Duncan due to the spacing he would give them.

That’s an interesting thought exercise. Prime TD would have to be doubled by Draymond and KD or Looney or whoever was their true center, freeing up jumpers on the wings and corners to Kyrie and crew. If those guys hit their shots it would be competitive, since Curry and Klay would light it up against guys like JR Smith and Kyrie. I think TD loses, but it would be an interesting battle of pace vs bigs.

[dude21]

Old man Duncan was shitting on the Warriors. We've always shitted on them until we started getting injuries to shitter ironically. :lol

Kawhi was manhandling them solo without the big three.

And Prime Fucking Duncan, well it's a sweep series. :lol

[daslicer]

If he had played in a a bigger he'd be widely considered a Top 3 player. The Big 3 would be widely considered the best trio ever.

Its ass backwards shit too because it takes more to do what the great Timothy Theodore Duncan did in SA than say what Kobe did in LA. Their are limitations (spending power, attracting FAs) that come with playing for a small market. The Spurs hadn't rang before the great Timothy Theodore Duncan and might not ring after him. The Lakers had plenty of rings before Kobe and will ring plenty after him.

Tim got disrespected a lot early in his career by the media.He got snubbed for the league MVP in '99 because the media felt he was too young at the time to win it and gave it to Karl Malone. After winning the first title the media dubbed it an asterisk due to Phil Jackson saying it wasn't legit. When Duncan won his two MVP's you had outcries from the media in '02 that Kidd deserved it and in '03 KG deserved it. Spurs win the second title and the media still disrespects the spurs and says it was an accidental title and that the Spurs just got lucky due to Webber and Dirk's injuries. After '03 the media runs on a theme for 2 years that Duncan is not a real leader and won't ever win a title without David Robinson. It wasn't until Duncan won the third title that Duncan got the moniker the greatest PF of all time. Prior to that he dealt with a lot of open hate from the media. I don't think guys like Kobe,Lebron,Durant would be able to handle those types of situations well without going crazy or wanting to leave.

[ace3g]

First part of video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtKhNuZGZrA

[UZER]

People always use “MJ never lost in the finals”. If Pop doesn’t pull the dumbest move, TD would have also been undefeated in the finals too.

[GAustex]

Pop is so ducking smart he pulled the best player in team history AT THE CRUCIAL MOMENT and directly lead to a devastating loss.
And the dumbass signed DeMarre Carroll this year

[baseline bum]

People always use “MJ never lost in the finals”. If Pop doesn’t pull the dumbest move, TD would have also been undefeated in the finals too.


Pop is so ducking smart he pulled the best player in team history AT THE CRUCIAL MOMENT and directly lead to a devastating loss.
And the dumbass signed DeMarre Carroll this year

Because Duncan was so amazing guarding the three point line?

[GAustex]

He was really good at grabbing rebounds

[GAustex]

Plus he was a really good player
One who wins a lot especially at the crucial moment

[baseline bum]

He was really good at grabbing rebounds

And really bad at guarding shooters off screens at the three point line by that part of his career, hence why he was on the bench when the Heat had no choice but to shoot threes.

[GAustex]

Yeah its too bad the whole thing did not turn out better for the mastermind who sat maybe one of the best winners to ever play the game.
We all know how it turned out. Clank-Bosh with the rebound-oh shit
While Tim freaking Duncan sat on the bench with genius poop.

In retorspect it was a great move-i stand corrected

[baseline bum]

Yeah its too bad the whole thing did not turn out better for the mastermind who sat maybe one of the best winners to ever play the game.
We all know how it turned out. Clank-Bosh with the rebound-oh shit
While Tim freaking Duncan sat on the bench with genius poop.

In retorspect it was a great move-i stand corrected

Oh yeah Duncan was great defending the three point shot at that point of his career. Just like in Game 2 of the 2014 Finals when Bosh stuck a wide open dagger three with a minute left to take the game when Duncan couldn't get back to him.

[phxspurfan]

Oh yeah Duncan was great defending the three point shot at that point of his career. Just like in Game 2 of the 2014 Finals when Bosh stuck a wide open dagger three with a minute left to take the game when Duncan couldn't get back to him.

Duncan would have boxed out and collected the LeBron brick. No attempt by Ray Ray if Pop puts in a lineup with a rebounder

[lefty]

Well MJ and Kobe are pretty much the same player

So Kobe > Duncan :lol

[baseline bum]

Duncan would have boxed out and collected the LeBron brick. No attempt by Ray Ray if Pop puts in a lineup with a rebounder

I don't see what's so hard to understand that Duncan couldn't guard the three point line at his age.

[ace3g]

I don't see what's so hard to understand that Duncan couldn't guard the three point line at his age.

I've mentioned it before but if every player was in the same spot to start the play with Duncan instead of Diaw - the same thing would have happened because Parker lost Lebron on the PnR causing Diaw to contest the 3 from Lebron, allowing Bosh an easy path for the rebound.

Now it is possible if Duncan was still in the game - Pop might have had different assignments.

[SayTown]

Oh yeah Duncan was great defending the three point shot at that point of his career. Just like in Game 2 of the 2014 Finals when Bosh stuck a wide open dagger three with a minute left to take the game when Duncan couldn't get back to him.
Everyone know's the best time to shoot a three is after an offensive rebound and therefore I'll take the positive of Tim grabbing a rebound over his weak perimeter defense if for no other reason than its Tim Duncan.

[baseline bum]

Everyone know's the best time to shoot a three is after an offensive rebound and therefore I'll take the positive of Tim grabbing a rebound over his weak perimeter defense if for no other reason than its Tim Duncan.

Yeah that was Miami's plan, miss the first three, get the rebound, and then hit the three.

[Drom John]

Chronologically, my favorite players have been:
Gus Johnson, Wes Unseld, B.J Armstrong, Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Patty Mills.

Why Armstrong?
I saw about every Hawkeye game on TV for his four years.
My second favorite Armstrong story: I was in line at an Iowa City yogurt shop, B.J. was in front of me, and was having an active conversation with the man behind me. I get back to my table, and my ex exclaims, "That was B.J. Armstrong! But who was the man behind you?" "Dan Gable."
My favorite Armstrong story was from a Bulls game against the 76ers. Armstrong lost the ball, and Charles Barkley got the loose ball and breaked to the opposite basket. Armstrong caught up about the top of the free throw circle and attempted to tackle Barkley. With Armstrong draped on his left shoulder, Barkley dribbled in and dunked. Barkley then lifted and removed Armstrong, then extended his hand. Barkley and Armstrong then shook hands very formally.

[UZER]

Oh yeah Duncan was great defending the three point shot at that point of his career. Just like in Game 2 of the 2014 Finals when Bosh stuck a wide open dagger three with a minute left to take the game when Duncan couldn't get back to him.


I don't see what's so hard to understand that Duncan couldn't guard the three point line at his age.

Oh yeah, because Diaw and Parker really made it super tough for Lebron to get that three off. :rolleyes Neither of them even made a great contest. Lebron shot it with zero resistance. Between Lebron, Wade, Allen, and Bosh, someone was going to get the 3 off period. With that lineup, you contest the best you can, and give yourself the best chance to get the rebound.

Side note: 3's made at that point - Lebron 1, Allen 1, Wade 0, Bosh 0. Sure Chalmers had 4, but do you really think Chalmers was going to take that shot?

And they weren't losing. They weren't even tied. They were winning by 3! If you want so bad to contest the 3 point shot, then why even let them get one off. Just foul them before they take it.

Pop got too cute. You don't take out a top ten player of all time at that point. It was the finals clinching play. Duncan had so much cache. He's so experienced and had never lost in a finals. He was the backbone of every championship won. You trust him on the floor at that point no matter what. Again, you weren't losing. You had the lead. And you know the Bosh 3 from game two was on his mind. He would've adjusted. He's too smart. That's why you trust him.

Sure he wasn't '03 Duncan, but he still had 30 points and 17 rebounds in a game 6 clinching game. He wasn't in a wheelchair.

You leave him on the floor, PERIOD.

[baseline bum]

Oh yeah, because Diaw and Parker really made it super tough for Lebron to get that three off. :rolleyes Neither of them even made a great contest. Lebron shot it with zero resistance. Between Lebron, Wade, Allen, and Bosh, someone was going to get the 3 off period. With that lineup, you contest the best you can, and give yourself the best chance to get the rebound.

Side note: 3's made at that point - Lebron 1, Allen 1, Wade 0, Bosh 0. Sure Chalmers had 4, but do you really think Chalmers was going to take that shot?

And they weren't losing. They weren't even tied. They were winning by 3! If you want so bad to contest the 3 point shot, then why even let them get one off. Just foul them before they take it.

Pop got too cute. You don't take out a top ten player of all time at that point. It was the finals clinching play. Duncan had so much cache. He's so experienced and had never lost in a finals. He was the backbone of every championship won. You trust him on the floor at that point no matter what. Again, you weren't losing. You had the lead. And you know the Bosh 3 from game two was on his mind. He would've adjusted. He's too smart. That's why you trust him.

Sure he wasn't '03 Duncan, but he still had 30 points and 17 rebounds in a game 6 clinching game. He wasn't in a wheelchair.

You leave him on the floor, PERIOD.

So to summarize:

1. You foul to turn it into a FT shooting contest when Ginobili and Leonard had just missed two critical free throws
2. You put maybe the worst perimeter defender on the team on the floor when Miami absolutely has to shoot a three
3. In Game 6 of the 2013 Finals Duncan was thinking back to the three Bosh hit on him to take Game 2 of the 2014 Finals

[KobesAchilles]

He’s not even as good as Durant and you people claim he’s #2 all time? :lol

[FkLA]

Duncan would have boxed out and collected the LeBron brick. No attempt by Ray Ray if Pop puts in a lineup with a rebounder

Or maybe the Heat get a better look initially with Duncan out there? How that possession turned out sucks for us but to assume that with Duncan out there, everything else would've been exactly the same except he grabs the rebound, is idiotic. That wasn't the first time Pop had used that strategy in '14. It just didnt work out that time unfortunately.

[Seventyniner]

Pop isn't a great coach, he had Tim Duncan so of course he looks good.

Manu is a shit player, he had Tim and Tony, with the greatest coach of all time so of course he looked good.

Tony Parker wasn't that good even in his prime. He had Tim Duncan and Manu on the floor, and Pop coached him strictly so of course he looks better than he is otherwise.

Turns out none of them were any good. Add the asterisks for other teams being injured, shortened seasons, etc... They are still 0fer

:lol

[Seventyniner]

So to summarize:

1. You foul to turn it into a FT shooting contest when Ginobili and Leonard had just missed two critical free throws
2. You put maybe the worst perimeter defender on the team on the floor when Miami absolutely has to shoot a three
3. In Game 6 of the 2013 Finals Duncan was thinking back to the three Bosh hit on him to take Game 2 of the 2014 Finals

Damn, let the dude breathe.

[DMC]

So to summarize:

1. You foul to turn it into a FT shooting contest when Ginobili and Leonard had just missed two critical free throws
2. You put maybe the worst perimeter defender on the team on the floor when Miami absolutely has to shoot a three
3. In Game 6 of the 2013 Finals Duncan was thinking back to the three Bosh hit on him to take Game 2 of the 2014 Finals

This explains why Tim was so good, he had ESP.

[UZER]

So to summarize:

1. You foul to turn it into a FT shooting contest when Ginobili and Leonard had just missed two critical free throws
2. You put maybe the worst perimeter defender on the team on the floor when Miami absolutely has to shoot a three
3. In Game 6 of the 2013 Finals Duncan was thinking back to the three Bosh hit on him to take Game 2 of the 2014 Finals


1. Why would Leonard or Manu have to shoot the free throws again? Don't inbound to Leonard. And if Manu gets its again, so what. He's a 3 time champion that has one on every level who is a good free throw shooter. I'll take those chances.

2. So you're ignoring the horrible contest Diaw and Parker gave Lebron on the 3 anyway. Tim couldn't have done much worse.

3. You're playing a team for the 6th straight time. You've done nothing but watch game film over and over. You don't think players think about previous plays throughout the series. Are you serious? Edit: I misread your post that it was from 2014, not ‘13.

Bottom line. I’m leaving Duncan on the floor.

[baseline bum]

1. Why would Leonard or Manu have to shoot the free throws again? Don't inbound to Leonard. And if Manu gets its again, so what. He's a 3 time champion that has one on every level who is a good free throw shooter. I'll take those chances.

2. So you're ignoring the horrible contest Diaw and Parker gave Lebron on the 3 anyway. Tim couldn't have done much worse.

3. You're playing a team for the 6th straight time. You've done nothing but watch game film over and over. You don't think players think about previous plays throughout the series. Are you serious? Edit: I misread your post that it was from 2014, not ‘13.

Bottom line. I’m leaving Duncan on the floor.

1. Why would Leonard or Manu have to shoot free throws again? Because you made it a free throw shooting contest and the Spurs were out of timeouts.

2. If Duncan's out there in Diaw's place contesting James' shot he's not there to get the rebound now, is he?

[UZER]

1. Why would Leonard or Manu have to shoot free throws again? Because you made it a free throw shooting contest and the Spurs were out of timeouts.

2. If Duncan's out there in Diaw's place contesting James' shot he's not there to get the rebound now, is he?

1. Get someone else the ball on the inbounds.

2. He wouldn’t be contesting the shot that far out.

It comes down to a) how badly do you want to contest the 3, which judging by the result with the lineup out there, didn’t make a difference, or b) if the shot is missed, is your HoF greatest power forward of all time going to be on the floor with a chance to grab the rebound.

I prefer b.

[daslicer]

Pop isn't a great coach, he had Tim Duncan so of course he looks good.

Manu is a shit player, he had Tim and Tony, with the greatest coach of all time so of course he looked good.

Tony Parker wasn't that good even in his prime. He had Tim Duncan and Manu on the floor, and Pop coached him strictly so of course he looks better than he is otherwise.

Turns out none of them were any good. Add the asterisks for other teams being injured, shortened seasons, etc... They are still 0fer

Pop agrees with me. He even admits it at 1:56 in this clip.

5EqDvbkEcTc

[baseline bum]

1. Get someone else the ball on the inbounds.

2. He wouldn’t be contesting the shot that far out.

It comes down to a) how badly do you want to contest the 3, which judging by the result with the lineup out there, didn’t make a difference, or b) if the shot is missed, is your HoF greatest power forward of all time going to be on the floor with a chance to grab the rebound.

I prefer b.

1. So pass it to Duncan instead if Parker can't get the inbounds pass? You surely don't want to pass it to Green for fear of him getting trapped.

2. So he doesn't contest three point shots? That's the whole reason to not have Duncan on the floor when Miami is forced to take a 3.

And LOL at your point A since Diaw had been putting work in on defending LeBron the whole series.

[Thomas82]

BJ Armstrong is a smart man.

[TD 21]

Kellerman, with his usual agenda, naming inferior players like Bryant and Olajuwon, but not Duncan.

He'll always be disrespected by ignorant fools like him and Perkins (O'Neal and Webber are just jealous), because he doesn't fit their narrow minded description of blackness.

The Spurs would have dethroned the Bulls in '99. They were spent in '98. The Pacers and Jazz both had them on the ropes. There's no way they had another year in them vs a better opponent than either.

The dirty little secret of the Jordan era is, he faced relatively weak opponents. Never had to go through Olajuwon. Split with young O'Neal. Never had to go through Duncan. All of whom would have exploited their relative weakness in the middle.

[daslicer]

Kellerman, with his usual agenda, naming inferior players like Bryant and Olajuwon, but not Duncan.

He'll always be disrespected by ignorant fools like him and Perkins (O'Neal and Webber are just jealous), because he doesn't fit their narrow minded description of blackness.

The Spurs would have dethroned the Bulls in '99. They were spent in '98. The Pacers and Jazz both had them on the ropes. There's no way they had another year in them vs a better opponent than either.

The dirty little secret of the Jordan era is, he faced relatively weak opponents. Never had to go through Olajuwon. Split with young O'Neal. Never had to go through Duncan. All of whom would have exploited their relative weakness in the middle.

Agree with everything you said. Just add to it that Scottie Pippen fell off after '98. He went from being a superstar in '98 to being just a good to solid player and not even all-star level anymore. '99 Pippen would have been easily cancelled out by '99 Elliott. Which leaves Jordan having to do all the scoring which would not have been enough against the Spurs '99 team.

Bulls might not have reached the finals in '99 due to having to face the Pacers again or going through the Knicks/Heat. If they have managed to get out they would have been weakened by having to go through a gauntlet in the East.

Some haters will argue that Rodman could shut down Tim but I doubt it. Rodman would have had his hands full having to guard Robinson/Duncan for a full game. He never had to guard a 7 footer for a full game. Even when he guarded Shaq it was for small stretches in a game. In a full game he would have been worn down and broken.

Max knows Duncan is better than Kobe but just doesn't like to admit. It was clear in a debate he had with Stephen A a week ago in which he conceded at the end that Duncan was better.

Shaq will always be a hater considering Duncan is the only guy he couldn't dominate in his prime. Duncan is also the only contemporary of Shaq that doesn't kiss his ass so I'm sure that also gets to him.

[DMC]

Pop agrees with me. He even admits it at 1:56 in this clip.

5EqDvbkEcTc

Pop is being humble. Tim is great, but so is Pop.

[DMC]

Agree with everything you said. Just add to it that Scottie Pippen fell off after '98. He went from being a superstar in '98 to being just a good to solid player and not even all-star level anymore. '99 Pippen would have been easily cancelled out by '99 Elliott. Which leaves Jordan having to do all the scoring which would not have been enough against the Spurs '99 team.

Bulls might not have reached the finals in '99 due to having to face the Pacers again or going through the Knicks/Heat. If they have managed to get out they would have been weakened by having to go through a gauntlet in the East.

Some haters will argue that Rodman could shut down Tim but I doubt it. Rodman would have had his hands full having to guard Robinson/Duncan for a full game. He never had to guard a 7 footer for a full game. Even when he guarded Shaq it was for small stretches in a game. In a full game he would have been worn down and broken.

Max knows Duncan is better than Kobe but just doesn't like to admit. It was clear in a debate he had with Stephen A a week ago in which he conceded at the end that Duncan was better.

Shaq will always be a hater considering Duncan is the only guy he couldn't dominate in his prime. Duncan is also the only contemporary of Shaq that doesn't kiss his ass so I'm sure that also gets to him.

It never matters what players think of other players because recency bias and friendship bias come into play.

[TD 21]

Agree with everything you said. Just add to it that Scottie Pippen fell off after '98. He went from being a superstar in '98 to being just a good to solid player and not even all-star level anymore. '99 Pippen would have been easily cancelled out by '99 Elliott. Which leaves Jordan having to do all the scoring which would not have been enough against the Spurs '99 team.

Bulls might not have reached the finals in '99 due to having to face the Pacers again or going through the Knicks/Heat. If they have managed to get out they would have been weakened by having to go through a gauntlet in the East.

Some haters will argue that Rodman could shut down Tim but I doubt it. Rodman would have had his hands full having to guard Robinson/Duncan for a full game. He never had to guard a 7 footer for a full game. Even when he guarded Shaq it was for small stretches in a game. In a full game he would have been worn down and broken.

Max knows Duncan is better than Kobe but just doesn't like to admit. It was clear in a debate he had with Stephen A a week ago in which he conceded at the end that Duncan was better.

Shaq will always be a hater considering Duncan is the only guy he couldn't dominate in his prime. Duncan is also the only contemporary of Shaq that doesn't kiss his ass so I'm sure that also gets to him.

Rodman wasn't big and strong enough to guard Duncan. Kukoc wasn't strong enough either and Longley and Wennington were too slow.

O'Neal is the most bitter, sensitive, insecure athlete I've ever seen. His latest game is pretending Duncan had a lot of help (says the guy who almost always had an MVP caliber co-star; unlike Duncan) and that Webber was better, because he's jealous that Duncan got a 5th ring and is widely regarded as greater.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/Dylangonzalez21/status/1251886123875475458


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHUuyWQ8g74

[Arcadian]

Good take :tu

[lefty]

The Bulls wouldn’t have win in 99 even with Scottie

They were mentally and physically exhausted

And Jordan lost another step and his scoring average was still great because he got a lot of welfare free throws

[lefty]

TD also blocked Jordan twice in that game

[daslicer]

The Bulls wouldn’t have win in 99 even with Scottie

They were mentally and physically exhausted

And Jordan lost another step and his scoring average was still great because he got a lot of welfare free throws

Scottie fell off after '98.

[lefty]

Scottie fell off after '98.

That too

[FrostKing]

Because Duncan was so amazing guarding the three point line?
The Heat were likely energized by the sight of the Spurs legend being taken off the court

[FrostKing]

The Bulls wouldn’t have win in 99 even with Scottie

They were mentally and physically exhausted

And Jordan lost another step and his scoring average was still great because he got a lot of welfare free throws
Short season, they would have needed 27 wins to just make the Playoffs. Tired?

Every team in the East was in decline. Actually every contender in 1999 was weaker than in previous/future seasons.

[lefty]

Short season, they would have needed 27 wins to just make the Playoffs. Tired?

Every team in the East was in decline. Actually every contender in 1999 was weaker than in previous/future seasons.

Thry were burned out

Kerr said it in an interview

[FrostKing]

Thry were burned out

Kerr said it in an interview
And so was everyone else. Spurs had an even older team.

[lefty]

And so was everyone else. Spurs had an even older team.

The Bulls won 3 straight titles
That rakes a toll
Did other team win 3 straight titles between 96 and 98? No

Same thing with their first 3peat they were mentally beat up, Jordan was even considering retirement in 91

[exstatic]

Rodman wasn't big and strong enough to guard Duncan. Kukoc wasn't strong enough either and Longley and Wennington were too slow.

O'Neal is the most bitter, sensitive, insecure athlete I've ever seen. His latest game is pretending Duncan had a lot of help (says the guy who almost always had an MVP caliber co-star; unlike Duncan) and that Webber was better, because he's jealous that Duncan got a 5th ring and is widely regarded as greater.

During their times, both Tim and David owned his whiney ass. It's no wonder he's such a biyotch about both of them.

[FrostKing]

Agree with everything you said. Just add to it that Scottie Pippen fell off after '98. He went from being a superstar in '98 to being just a good to solid player and not even all-star level anymore. '99 Pippen would have been easily cancelled out by '99 Elliott. Which leaves Jordan having to do all the scoring which would not have been enough against the Spurs '99 team.

Bulls might not have reached the finals in '99 due to having to face the Pacers again or going through the Knicks/Heat. If they have managed to get out they would have been weakened by having to go through a gauntlet in the East.

Some haters will argue that Rodman could shut down Tim but I doubt it. Rodman would have had his hands full having to guard Robinson/Duncan for a full game. He never had to guard a 7 footer for a full game. Even when he guarded Shaq it was for small stretches in a game. In a full game he would have been worn down and broken.

Max knows Duncan is better than Kobe but just doesn't like to admit. It was clear in a debate he had with Stephen A a week ago in which he conceded at the end that Duncan was better.

Shaq will always be a hater considering Duncan is the only guy he couldn't dominate in his prime. Duncan is also the only contemporary of Shaq that doesn't kiss his ass so I'm sure that also gets to him.
If Pippen fell off, then Elliot was a corpse. Same with Mario Elie.

Look at Sprewell and Houston in the 1999 Finals.

Interesting matchup of strength vs weakness for both teams. I think the strike shortened season is enough for the Bulls in 1999.

[daslicer]

If Pippen fell off, then Elliot was a corpse. Same with Mario Elie.

Look at Sprewell and Houston in the 1999 Finals.

Interesting matchup of strength vs weakness for both teams. I think the strike shortened season is enough for the Bulls in 1999.

Elliott and Pippen were both good role players in 99. They would have both cancelled each other out in match ups. Sean was a pretty good defensive player that year. Spree and Houston did not light him up. Of course they scored over 20 a game against him but it wasn't efficient. Spree shot 41 percent for the series and Houston shot 42 percent. I wouldn't call that lighting it up.

[KobesAchilles]

Elliott and Pippen were both good role players in 99. They would have both cancelled each other out in match ups. Sean was a pretty good defensive player that year. Spree and Houston did not light him up. Of course they scored over 20 a game against him but it wasn't efficient. Spree shot 41 percent for the series and Houston shot 42 percent. I wouldn't call that lighting it up.
In that series it was :lol Teams were scoring low 80s during those finals. I mean the close out game was like 78 points and we won. Scoring over 20 a game and contributing a 4th of your teams offense is lighting it up; ignore that field goal percentage bc in that series, against the best defensive team of all time numbers wise, 40 and 41 percent is the equivalent to 50%

[daslicer]

In that series it was :lol Teams were scoring low 80s during those finals. I mean the close out game was like 78 points and we won. Scoring over 20 a game and contributing a 4th of your teams offense is lighting it up; ignore that field goal percentage bc in that series, against the best defensive team of all time numbers wise, 40 and 41 percent is the equivalent to 50%

No way you spin it low 40 percent shooting will always be trash in my eyes.

[KobesAchilles]

No way you spin it low 40 percent shooting will always be trash in my eyes.
Against a team that was giving up 83 points a game? Who the fuck is gonna have a great shooting percentage against that? Shit man, entire teams were shooting in the 30s% against the Spurs that year and you shitting on low 40s? Not realistic expectations tbh.

[Manuver21]

Because Duncan was so amazing guarding the three point line?

Go watch how he guarded Durant in OT of Game 6 to carry us to the finals again.

Pop's moron obviously but he learned his lesson, even though I will never forgive him.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/JeffGSpursZone/status/1253096387425730562

[exstatic]

https://twitter.com/JeffGSpursZone/status/1253096387425730562

Ridiculous to say that Time didn't have the win at all costs mentality. If you need one instance to illustrate it, think back to game 7, 2013 Finals. He almost won that bitch by himself, and when he missed that little bunny layup near the end, he didn't hang his head, he got back on D, got into his stance, and was slapping the floor, as if to say "bring it". That's a fucking warrior. He wasn't demonstrative, but I think a lot of those guys are posers anyway, like KG, K Perkins, etc. They're actually betas trying to act like alphas.

[baseline bum]

https://twitter.com/JeffGSpursZone/status/1253096387425730562

Still think it's funny Jordan called him Will Vanderbilt since he didn't think Perdue deserved to share a name with a college with a competent basketball program.

[daslicer]

Ridiculous to say that Time didn't have the win at all costs mentality. If you need one instance to illustrate it, think back to game 7, 2013 Finals. He almost won that bitch by himself, and when he missed that little bunny layup near the end, he didn't hang his head, he got back on D, got into his stance, and was slapping the floor, as if to say "bring it". That's a fucking warrior. He wasn't demonstrative, but I think a lot of those guys are posers anyway, like KG, K Perkins, etc. They're actually betas trying to act like alphas.

Tim is an introvert-laidback personality and people just assume if you are laidback that you are not competitive which is stupid. I have heard arguments from years about how KG was better than Tim simply because he had more fire and passion. Those arguments always make me laugh. Tim was a very physical player and there is no way he could have been that way without having fire and passion.

[Gooshie]

Go watch how he guarded Durant in OT of Game 6 to carry us to the finals again.

Pop's moron obviously but he learned his lesson, even though I will never forgive him.

I agree with this. Pop definitely learned his lesson. 2014 WCF Game 6, OT was almost the exact same situation as 2013 Finals Game 6 - up by 3 with less than 30 seconds left. TD switched out, guarded KD very well - he missed, and Diaw grabbed the rebound. After Diaw made 1/2 FTs, TD was AGAIN switched out to the 3-point line, this time against Westbrook. TD guarded him so well that Russ had to force a wild desperation shot that hit the top of the backboard, lol.

Notice that on both of those 2014 possessions, the rotations were on point. Perhaps if TD was on the floor in 2013, maybe the communication is better and the rotations aren’t screwed up.

The other thing about 2013 (that nobody ever talks about) is when Pop took him out of the game the second time, the Spurs were actually only up 2. Kawhi had just missed the first FT. Remember, he was only 21 yrs old at this point. I remember thinking to myself - why is Pop taking TD out again- what if Kawhi misses this FT too? Then we would have only been up 2, and of course TD should be in the game then.

So, Pop’s thought process should have been:
1. 21 year old Kawhi might miss this second FT, we’d only be up 2, therefore TD should be in the game
2. Even if Kawhi makes second the FT, the Heat had just gotten the offensive rebound off a missed 3 on the previous possession without TD on the court, so we might as well have TD in the game to make sure that doesn’t happen again

Anyways, it’s all a moot point - personally, I don’t think we would have repeated in 2014 had we won in 2013 - the pain of 2013 really drove us in 2014. I think OKC would have taken us out in 2014. The only thing that sucks is that I believe TD would be looked at with higher regard on the All Time list - as he would likely have finished 5-0 in the Finals with 4 Finals MVPs (and everyone knows he was by far our best player in 2007 too). That being said, the revenge title in 2014 was so, so sweet. :)

[dbreiden83080]

Max thinks Hakeem is the 2nd best player of all time? Wow..

[dbreiden83080]

The Bulls wouldn’t have win in 99 even with Scottie

They were mentally and physically exhausted

And Jordan lost another step and his scoring average was still great because he got a lot of welfare free throws

Where would Jordan's GOAT Standing be today had Kraus not been such a fat little turd, and brought the team back in 99? Spurs were going to end the reign IMO..

[baseline bum]

The Bulls wouldn’t have win in 99 even with Scottie

They were mentally and physically exhausted

And Jordan lost another step and his scoring average was still great because he got a lot of welfare free throws

Don't forget Rodman having checked out by then too. Despite Shaq begging Jerry West for him Rodman was the same little bitch in LA that he was in SA.

[dbreiden83080]

Don't forget Rodman having checked out by then too. Despite Shaq begging Jerry West for him Rodman was the same little bitch in LA that he was in SA.

Without Phil, and all his Zen Bullshit, plus MJ kicking his ass he didn't give a fuck..

[daslicer]

Without Phil, and all his Zen Bullshit, plus MJ kicking his ass he didn't give a fuck..

I think even Rodman knew he couldn't screw up in Chicago.

[BillMc]

Tim is the best NBA winner of our lifetime. There were no years lost to retirements (Jordan), team destruction (Kobe, Shaq) or team-switching (LeBron). You get Tim and you're going to win and win and win, and because of his personality, everyone else will fall inline and you'll maximize your roster, essential for a small market team not in glamorous location.

Shaq can call himself Wilt. Kobe chased Jordan. Tim was the modern day Bill Russell.

[dbreiden83080]

Tim is the best NBA winner of our lifetime. There were no years lost to retirements (Jordan), team destruction (Kobe, Shaq) or team-switching (LeBron). You get Tim and you're going to win and win and win, and because of his personality, everyone else will fall inline and you'll maximize your roster, essential for a small market team not in glamorous location.

Shaq can call himself Wilt. Kobe chased Jordan. Tim was the modern day Bill Russell.

Agreed. And I love the fact that Tim squared off with Lebron in the finals 3 times winning 2 of 3.. We all know it should have been 3-0.. But i'll take it..

[BSfromTX]

How many players play 19 years as a starter and make the POs every season, let alone your squad is almost always in the contender conversation during that time frame?

That alone speaks volumes to even casual fans.

Tim didn't do this when there was only 8 teams and 90% of the league was white. He did this is a far more competitive and physical era in a much larger league.

He is simply incredible and under appreciated.

And all in a time when the WC was stacked!

[BillMc]

Agreed. And I love the fact that Tim squared off with Lebron in the finals 3 times winning 2 of 3.. We all know it should have been 3-0.. But i'll take it..

Exactly. In the two series victories Tim's team swept Lebron (2007) and then beat him by the greatest margin in NBA Finals History (2014). And Tim's defeat was by the narrowest of margins. LBJ is either overrated or Tim vastly underrated.

[Arcadian]

Exactly. In the two series victories Tim's team swept Lebron (2007) and then beat him by the greatest margin in NBA Finals History (2014). And Tim's defeat was by the narrowest of margins. LBJ is either overrated or Tim vastly underrated.
No doubt Tim got the best of Lebron in their playoff meetings, and was the better winner.

There is no clear-cut GOAT in basketball - every candidate has flaws you can point out. But Tim is definitely on the same level as Jordan, Lebron, or anyone else.

[dbreiden83080]

Exactly. In the two series victories Tim's team swept Lebron (2007) and then beat him by the greatest margin in NBA Finals History (2014). And Tim's defeat was by the narrowest of margins. LBJ is either overrated or Tim vastly underrated.

TD is top 10 on any list that is credible.. IMO A case can be made for top 5. But for Lebron a big issue with his GOAT candidacy is how many players of his era have eaten.. TD got 2 rings. Dirk got 1 Ring, Curry got 3 rings. KD going to the Warriors was BS.. BUT we all know who started that Bullshit.. Mr. I am "Taking my talents to South Beach" So no sympathy from me, dealing with a Superteam.. I have Lebron top 10 as well. But that's it..

[dbreiden83080]

No doubt Tim got the best of Lebron in their playoff meetings, and was the better winner.

There is no clear-cut GOAT in basketball - every candidate has flaws you can point out. But Tim is definitely on the same level as Jordan, Lebron, or anyone else.

Jordan had in so many ways a perfect career.. He quits at the top of his game after a 3 peat.. Is out almost 2 years and after one loss in 95, rips off another 3 peat and retires again.. It's hard to top that...

[Arcadian]

Jordan had in so many ways a perfect career.. He quits at the top of his game after a 3 peat.. Is out almost 2 years and after one loss in 95, rips off another 3 peat and retires again.. It's hard to top that...


https://youtu.be/GNNLt7f9az0

[SASdynasty!]

Jordan had in so many ways a perfect career.. He quits at the top of his game after a 3 peat.. Is out almost 2 years and after one loss in 95, rips off another 3 peat and retires again.. It's hard to top that...
Jordan had a losing record for a third of his career. (5/15 seasons).
Duncan never had a season under .600 (and he played 4 more years).

Jordan did nothing before Pippen (1 playoff win against a team led by Terry Cummings, who went on to win the series 3-1).
Jordan didn’t win a chip until he the greatest coach of all time (which is why he vowed to not play in 99).

Jordan has the best #2 ever (MVP caliber player who took a paycut), the best Coach of all time, the best rebounder of all time, the best shooter of all time, and some of the most clutch teammates surrounding them even (like Paxson) to bail him out and get him over every hump he couldn’t.

Jordan without an all-time cast is a career loser who had one playoff win in 5 years even though there were only 22 teams in the league and everyone made the playoffs.