View Full Version : Amateur: Shaun Marion: Future HOF'er? / Antawn Jamison, too?
Spurtacular
04-18-2020, 12:25 AM
According to Bill Simmons at the start of this vid.
I'll take Marion over guys like Carmelo who will be inducted. But come on, really?
Antawn Jamison; don't get me started.
If that's the bar, we got to start talking about Jason Williams, Antoine Walker, Danny Manning, Danny Ainge, Terry Porter, etc.
BTW, Reggie Lewis should be in the HOF. Not his fault he dieded (Well, technically it is; but still).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMxOJM-EKgE
basquetbol
04-18-2020, 12:28 AM
The basketball hall of fame is already a joke, what has Marion and Jamison done that would even warrant consideration for the hall of fame?
Spurtacular
04-18-2020, 12:36 AM
The basketball hall of fame is already a joke, what has Marion and Jamison done that would even warrant consideration for the hall of fame?
Women's basketball players in it; but nobody really counts them anyways.
Marion belongs in Fantasy BB HOF, tbh. Dude was a helluva stat stuffer at his peak. Even #1 overall at many times. Even then, he was only a fringe all-star. He just didn't have the intangibles, not until the 2011 season when he rang and was pretty money that post-season on both ends of the court.
Antawn Jamison was a good mid range shooter but not a go-to scorer when game on the line or anything like that. And his defense was really questionable. I think he could have been HOF type player, but it seems like he was happy to punch his time card and then go home.
baseline bum
04-18-2020, 12:38 AM
Might as well put Paul Mokeski and Keith Bogans in.
Spurtacular
04-18-2020, 12:44 AM
Andre Kirilenko in that 99 draft too. Him and Marion were all-time Fantasy stat stuffers at their peaks, tbh.
You got a team with both those guys and it was all over.
FrostKing
04-18-2020, 01:42 AM
Robert Horry would be in if not for the early career behavior problems
LkrFan
04-18-2020, 07:53 AM
Nope and nope.
Iggy not getting in either if Horry not getting in.
FrostKing
04-18-2020, 08:17 AM
Nope and nope.
Iggy not getting in either if Horry not getting in.
Marion over Iguodala
Statistically so close. Very good comparison.
- Marion's rebounds in double digits out shadows Iguodala's assists
- Marion rebounding PG is really impressive
Not sure about HOF but the fact that Marion never made an all defense team in his career (not even 2nd) is a joke tbh
Dirks_Finale
04-18-2020, 11:36 AM
Not sure about HOF but the fact that Marion never made an all defense team in his career (not even 2nd) is a joke tbh
Dirks_Finale
04-18-2020, 11:37 AM
Neither are Hall worthy. imo.
But Marion was highly underrated defensively.
Dirks_Finale
04-18-2020, 11:39 AM
They need a secondary HOF for clutch role players. Horry, Vinnie Johnson, etc.
Robert Horry would be in if not for the early career behavior problems
lefty
04-18-2020, 11:39 AM
Iggy won FMVP tho
lefty
04-18-2020, 11:40 AM
Neither are Hall worthy. imo.
But Marion was highly underrated defensively.
Yup
Marion would have been perfect for today’s NBA
Spurtacular
04-18-2020, 01:47 PM
IMO, his low release put a lower ceiling on his career.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0L9dfD3Ml8
Spurtacular
04-18-2020, 01:51 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H0EjcoMZRk
LkrFan
04-18-2020, 02:17 PM
Iggy won FMVP tho
On default because his super team won. Bron was the best player in that series.
lefty
04-18-2020, 05:15 PM
On default because his super team won. Bron was the best player in that series.
No quuestion, Bron was fantastic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H0EjcoMZRk
Can't believe throughout his life nobody ever bothered to fix that form. It limits you so much offensively when you shoot from your chin. He was athletic enough to where if he had a high release point he could've been a decent scorer, tbh.
Mark Celibate
04-18-2020, 09:08 PM
IMO, a Hall of Famer is usually someone who was top 3 at his position for atleast a handful of years. The PF position was notoriously stacked in the 00's and early 10's so maybe you can make an exception to this rule, but even then a guy like Chris Bosh would be over him. Chris Webber too. So it's too deep for Marion to be considered. Never seriously thought of Jamison as a Hall of Famer, doesn't even have a single All-NBA Third Team under his belt
It's kinda strange how both of these guys played very similar games on the offensive side of the ball. Neither were especially known for having any go-to moves. Mainly just moved without the ball or got clean-up baskets off of scrambled plays/rebounds
KobesAchilles
04-18-2020, 10:37 PM
Not on my watch.
TD 21
04-19-2020, 12:04 AM
IMO, a Hall of Famer is usually someone who was top 3 at his position for atleast a handful of years. The PF position was notoriously stacked in the 00's and early 10's so maybe you can make an exception to this rule, but even then a guy like Chris Bosh would be over him. Chris Webber too. So it's too deep for Marion to be considered. Never seriously thought of Jamison as a Hall of Famer, doesn't even have a single All-NBA Third Team under his belt
It's kinda strange how both of these guys played very similar games on the offensive side of the ball. Neither were especially known for having any go-to moves. Mainly just moved without the ball or got clean-up baskets off of scrambled plays/rebounds
Marion wasn't a PF, he was a 3.5 who predominately played the 4 with D'Antoni at the helm. Bosh and Webber were 4.5's.
He might be the most interesting HOF case (Aldridge will soon challenge him). He hit a lot of the thresholds that have got others in, but doesn't quite feel like one.
To me, it should be for greatness, not very goodness. He was never in the MVP conversation or 1st/2nd team All-NBA and topped out as a top 15 player, with about an 8 year run as a prominent player.
Simmons and company are out of their mind thinking he was better than Ginobili.
Will Hunting
04-19-2020, 06:52 AM
IMO, his low release put a lower ceiling on his career.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0L9dfD3Ml8
The fact he didn’t know how to dribble a basketball didn’t help either.
Spurtacular
04-19-2020, 07:12 AM
The fact he didn’t know how to dribble a basketball didn’t help either.
Smart signing by Cuban in 09 though. Where was brilliant PATFO on that one?
Will Hunting
04-19-2020, 09:05 AM
Smart signing by Cuban in 09 though. Where was brilliant PATFO on that one?
Yeah they signed him as a role player who didn’t need to create and could just focus on defense.
The Suns should have never maxed his contract out after the 2003 season imo.
Dirks_Finale
04-19-2020, 04:34 PM
If I remember correctly, we traded for him for Stack who was a dog at that point. Salary dump type trade. Nobody talked about it at the time.
And I do recall wondering myself about Shawn as he failed miserably in 2010 in our series vs you guys. So his 2011 playoffs sorta shocked me. Did not think he had it in him.
Smart signing by Cuban in 09 though. Where was brilliant PATFO on that one?
Spurtacular
04-19-2020, 05:43 PM
If I remember correctly, we traded for him for Stack who was a dog at that point. Salary dump type trade. Nobody talked about it at the time.
And I do recall wondering myself about Shawn as he failed miserably in 2010 in our series vs you guys. So his 2011 playoffs sorta shocked me. Did not think he had it in him.
Video said it was a signing in 09. He was apparently a free agent. Spurs could've used a guy like Marion with Robert Horry having been cut. Spurs were probably risk averse given what it looks like he made:
https://hoopshype.com/player/shawn-marion/salary/
MultiTroll
04-19-2020, 08:35 PM
No / No
Spurtacular
04-20-2020, 01:54 PM
If Carmelo Anthony is going into the HOF, then honestly who cares from there.
Dirks_Finale
04-20-2020, 03:35 PM
What about Jason Terry?
Outscored Lebron the GOAT in the 2011 finals :lol
Dirks_Finale
04-20-2020, 03:36 PM
If Carmelo Anthony is going into the HOF, then honestly who cares from there.
I'd take Horry over Melo if I had to select one for the Hall.
Outscored Lebron the GOAT in the 2011 finals :lol
Dude had like 9 threes or something stupid.
ElNono
04-21-2020, 06:33 AM
Iggy won FMVP tho
Iggy was a franchise player in Philly for many years too... Marion though?
ElNono
04-21-2020, 06:35 AM
If Carmelo Anthony is going into the HOF, then honestly who cares from there.
Melo at least has like 2 gold medals and a bronze, IIRC (and I hate everything about Melo)... Considering it's not the NBA-only HoF, there's some argument there.
But there's really none for these two.
Spurtacular
04-21-2020, 06:48 AM
Melo at least has like 2 gold medals and a bronze, IIRC (and I hate everything about Melo)... Considering it's not the NBA-only HoF, there's some argument there.
But there's really none for these two.
:lol Those are glorified exhibition games for US players.
And frankly, anything short of gold is embarrassing.
ElNono
04-21-2020, 08:51 AM
:lol Those are glorified exhibition games for US players.
And frankly, anything short of gold is embarrassing.
They were until they lost... again and again...
ElNono
04-21-2020, 08:52 AM
Wasn't Marion in the 2004 Olympic team that got Bronze with TD?
Spurtacular
04-21-2020, 08:54 AM
They were until they lost... again and again...
The US is beatable, and the other teams have improved. But it's still a pretty hollow achievement for a US player, tbh.
phxspurfan
04-23-2020, 12:55 PM
Marion and Jamison were never superstar caliber, much less HOF, which IMO is a tier above superstar (superstar = not just 20ppg, but relied upon singularly by the team to get them buckets in crunch time, and make the playoffs because of the guy/made the teammates better). If you put every fringe all star in the HOF you might as well make it hall of all star game
phxspurfan
04-23-2020, 12:57 PM
I'd take Horry over Melo if I had to select one for the Hall.
No way, Melo took his Syracuse team to the NCAA championship and won, and was a key player on the Redeem Team. Melo was also a clear superstar, and no way the Thuggets make the playoffs when they did without him. Horry was clutch, that's about it.
phxspurfan
04-23-2020, 01:01 PM
:lol Those are glorified exhibition games for US players.
And frankly, anything short of gold is embarrassing.
The olympics back in those days was actually really competitive. Manu's Argie team had many NBA level players. That's in addition to other good teams like Spain (prime Pau Gasol), Russia (AK47), Germany (prime Dirk), all them baltic countries with their shooters. It was arguably peak international ball in the mid-late 2000s due to the Spurs drafting Euros and opening peoples eyes to talent there / Euro kids being influenced by all the stars who came from there and playing basketball in their youth.
Mark Celibate
04-23-2020, 01:28 PM
If we're putting Robert Horry in, may as well put in any feel good name that hit a few big shots. Let Steve Kerr and Derek Fisher in too while we're at it, imo. Danny Green had that one big NBA Finals game, I say we make room for him too
Dirks_Finale
04-23-2020, 03:35 PM
Didn't those Nugz team also have a Finals MVP on it?
No way, Melo took his Syracuse team to the NCAA championship and won, and was a key player on the Redeem Team. Melo was also a clear superstar, and no way the Thuggets make the playoffs when they did without him. Horry was clutch, that's about it.
ambchang
04-23-2020, 04:57 PM
According to Bill Simmons at the start of this vid.
I'll take Marion over guys like Carmelo who will be inducted. But come on, really?
Antawn Jamison; don't get me started.
If that's the bar, we got to start talking about Jason Williams, Antoine Walker, Danny Manning, Danny Ainge, Terry Porter, etc.
BTW, Reggie Lewis should be in the HOF. Not his fault he dieded (Well, technically it is; but still).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMxOJM-EKgE
This is so stupid. Simmons is letting his own biases go in the way again. He has been shown to be a huge mid-00s Suns fans (and Spurs hater) and try to rewrite history.
Manu, Metta World Peace, AK47, Lamar Odom, Rip were all better. Elton Brand was as good if not better, Then there is Andre Miller, Franchise (crazy), Baron Davis (fat and hurt), and turtlehead.
And knocking Brand for not making the all-star team when the other PF in the west were Duncan, Garnett and Weber, I mean, who else should have made it? Even MVPau had to wait.
Then he is trying to throw Duncan under the bus by suggesting Elton Brand should make all-nba 1st over him. This guy is just clouded by his own biases.
Spurtacular
04-23-2020, 05:23 PM
The olympics back in those days was actually really competitive. Manu's Argie team had many NBA level players. That's in addition to other good teams like Spain (prime Pau Gasol), Russia (AK47), Germany (prime Dirk), all them baltic countries with their shooters. It was arguably peak international ball in the mid-late 2000s due to the Spurs drafting Euros and opening peoples eyes to talent there / Euro kids being influenced by all the stars who came from there and playing basketball in their youth.
No offense to the Argies or any of them; they won because we weren't sending anywhere near our best for the most part. Also a nonsense foul call on a screen by Duncan to foul out him out didn't hurt.
phxspurfan
04-23-2020, 05:50 PM
Didn't those Nugz team also have a Finals MVP on it?
B-b-b-b-b-b billups only has a finals mvp bc that detroit team didn't have a true superstar. TBH it was a team award, split between Big Ben, Rasheed, Rip and Chauncey. Tayshaun in the Bowen role a close 2nd.
No way Thuggets win anything with washed Bullpups as their leader.
AI OTOH is awesome, but was also semi washed by the time he made it to Denver.
FrostKing
04-23-2020, 06:14 PM
B-b-b-b-b-b billups only has a finals mvp bc that detroit team didn't have a true superstar. TBH it was a team award, split between Big Ben, Rasheed, Rip and Chauncey. Tayshaun in the Bowen role a close 2nd.
No way Thuggets win anything with washed Bullpups as their leader.
AI OTOH is awesome, but was also semi washed by the time he made it to Denver.
Billups was clutch and that was his locker room
https://youtu.be/tjCLPn_heHc
Spurtacular
04-23-2020, 07:07 PM
Billups was clutch and that was his locker room
https://youtu.be/tjCLPn_heHc
Honestly, I think he probably missed that so bad that it just banked in.
Billups was a good floor leader who kept things going, for the most part. He was guilty of shrinking in some big moments but that Pistons team played great basketball.
Seventyniner
04-24-2020, 08:12 PM
No fuggin' way either Marion or Jamison should make it in.
Melo has a pretty good case due to his non-NBA achievements.
Spurtacular
04-24-2020, 08:19 PM
Melo has a pretty good case due to his non-NBA achievements.
:lol Olympics mean sh**
TDMVPDPOY
04-25-2020, 12:06 AM
no mention of rasho? 2 time nba champion
ElNono
04-25-2020, 11:05 PM
:lol Olympics mean sh**
It's not the NBA Hall of Fame...
FrostKing
04-26-2020, 06:32 AM
Rasheed Wallace
Played on epic teams from UNC to 90s Blazers, then Pistons and Celtics.
Spurtacular
04-26-2020, 10:55 AM
It's not the NBA Hall of Fame...
Officially.
But for purposes, our scope is NBA. Or do you want to be putting Jimmer in there with Carmelo? :lol
ElNono
04-26-2020, 05:27 PM
Officially.
But for purposes, our scope is NBA. Or do you want to be putting Jimmer in there with Carmelo? :lol
The problem is your scope isn't the HoF scope... so you're always going to disagree.
Jimmer did nothing noteworthy in the NBA or the international stage to be considered.
Spurtacular
04-26-2020, 05:34 PM
The problem is your scope isn't the HoF scope... so you're always going to disagree.
Jimmer did nothing noteworthy in the NBA or the international stage to be considered.
Chinese League MVP.
Jimmer Mania @ college level.
ElNono
04-26-2020, 09:45 PM
Chinese League MVP.
Jimmer Mania @ college level.
Does not register... in the international stage: 1) Olympic medals 2) FIBA World Cup 3) top leagues: Spain, Italy + some eastern block like Lithuania or Yugoslavia when it was still a thing.
Nobody got in the HoF due solely to their college pedigree...
Spurtacular
04-26-2020, 10:00 PM
Does not register... in the international stage: 1) Olympic medals 2) FIBA World Cup 3) top leagues: Spain, Italy + some eastern block like Lithuania or Yugoslavia when it was still a thing.
Nobody got in the HoF due solely to their college pedigree...
Good chance Jimmer will get votes, bro.
Spurtacular
05-22-2020, 04:20 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QFI3XMd-v8
dbreiden83080
05-22-2020, 04:16 PM
No fuggin' way either Marion or Jamison should make it in.
Melo has a pretty good case due to his non-NBA achievements.
The Open Entry policy that is the Basketball HOF.
Melo is a lock with his stats..
Billups was a good floor leader who kept things going, for the most part. He was guilty of shrinking in some big moments but that Pistons team played great basketball.
?
He was known as Mr. Big Shot or something along those lines. He was pretty steady but not spectacular otherwise. It's the fact that he had a tendency to hit big shots/be a solid closer that made him stand out as an all-star level guy. His numbers on their own weren't really good enough.
Spurtacular
06-22-2020, 10:00 PM
I've came around on Shaun Marion being HOF'er. He sure did underachieve at times though.
Antwan Jamison, though? No.
ElNono
06-22-2020, 10:17 PM
I've came around on Shaun Marion being HOF'er. He sure did underachieve at times though.
Antwan Jamison, though? No.
fucking no, just stop.
Spurtacular
06-22-2020, 11:04 PM
fucking no, just stop.
Dude was a statistical beast at his best.
He was part of a Suns team that was "robbed" of a ring or
otherwise would have rang if they didn't f up by not resigning Joe Johnson.
He denied Lebron a ring, too while winning one for himself, J Kidd and Dirk.
He was four-time all-star.
He shot 51 career FG. Kobe only has one season that matches that.
And that was his one season over 50 FG.
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