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Ghost Writer
07-08-2003, 12:22 PM
You may recall timvp started a thread called "The Forgotten Free Agent." In it, I switched the focus to Lamar Odom, a free agent that has been flying under the radar. Well, according to ESPN Insider, Odom and Rasho Nesterovic are the Spurs prime alternatives should O'Neal, Kidd and Brand snub them.

Let's take a closer look at Mr. Odom.

www.nba.com/playerfile/la.../?nav=page (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/lamar_odom/?nav=page)

Player Profile

http://media.nba.com/media/playerfile/lamar_odom.jpg

Lamar Odom | 7

Position: F

Born: 11/06/79

Height: 6-10 / 2,08

Weight: 221 lbs. / 100,2 kg.

College - Rhode Island '01
http://www.nba.com/media/act_lamar_odom.jpg
&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp
2002-03 Statistics
&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp REBOUNDS PER GAME&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp
TEAM&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp G&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp GS&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp MPG&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp FGM-A&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp FG%&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3PM-A&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3P%&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp FTM-A&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp FT%&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp OFF&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp DEF&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp TOT&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp APG&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp SPG&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp BPG&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp TO&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp PF&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp PPG
LAC&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 49&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 47&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 34.3&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 268-611&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .439&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 42-129&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .326&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 136-175&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .777&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1.20&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 5.40&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 6.70&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3.6&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .86&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .84&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 2.86&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3.70&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 14.6
Career Highlights
*&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Participated in the 2001 Schick Rookie Challenge during the 2001 All-Star Weekend
*&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Scored a career-high 34 points at New Jersey on 2/18/01
*&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Named to the 1999-2000 Schick All-Rookie First Team
*&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Participated in the Schick Rookie Challenge during the 2000 All-Star Weekend
*&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Notched his first career triple-double, tallying 10 points, 13 rebounds and 10 assists against the Houston Rockets on 12/30/99
*&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Named co-winner of the Schick Rookie of the Month award for November 1999 (along with Adrian Griffin), averaging 18.6 ppg and 7.8 rpg
*&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Made his NBA debut, totaling 30 points and grabbing 12 rebounds against the Seattle SuperSoncis on 11/2/99
*&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp As a sophomore, he was named Honorable Mention All-America by AP, First Team All-Atlantic 10 and Atlantic 10 Rookie of the Year after averaging 17.6 ppg, 9.4 rpg and 3.8 apg.
*&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Odom scored a career-high 28 points against St. Joseph's, with career highs of 15 rebounds against Brown and 11 assists against George Washington.



http://clippers.topbuzz.com/albums/lamar_odom/aaq.jpg


Personal
*&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Full name is Lamar Joseph Odom
*&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Born in Jamaica, New York
*&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Has one daughter, Destiny
*&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Hobbies include listening to music, especially Jay-Z, and shopping
*&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Favorite movie is Goodfellas and favorite TV show is Martin
*&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Favorite book is Malcolm X by Alex Haley
*&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Scored 36 points in the Catholic championship game, breaking the individual scoring record shared by Lew Alcindor, Kenny Anderson and Felipe Lopez






Season Highs / Career Highs
&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 2002-03 HIGHS&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp CAREER HIGHS
Points&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 30 vs. Houston 3/24/03 &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 34 @ New Jersey 2/18/01
Field Goals Made&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 13 vs. Houston 3/24/03&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 13 4 Times
Field Goals Attempted&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 20 3 Times&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 24 @ New Jersey 2/18/01
Three Point Field Goals Made &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3 4 Times&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 4 2 Times
Three Point Field Goals Attempted&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 6 3 Times&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 10 vs. Orlando 12/11/00
Free Throws Made&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 9 2 Times&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 14 @ Seattle 4/19/00
Free Throws Attempted&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 10 3 Times&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 15 3 Times
Offensive Rebounds&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 4 2 Times&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 6 4 Times
Defensive Rebounds&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 12 vs. Portland 4/16/03&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 14 @ L.A. Lakers 11/05/00
Total Rebounds&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 13 vs. Portland 4/16/03&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 16 vs. Detroit 3/27/01
Assists&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 9 @ Denver 4/12/03&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 11 5 Times
Steals&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3 4 Times&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 5 vs. Boston 12/26/99
Blocks&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3 4 Times&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 9 vs. Vancouver 12/23/00
Minutes Played&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 44 vs. Atlanta 2/22/03&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 51 vs. Portland 2/24/01
CAREER AVERAGES
&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp REBOUNDS PER GAME&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp
YEAR&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp TEAM&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp G&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp GS&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp MPG&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp FG%&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3P%&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp FT%&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp OFF&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp DEF&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp RPG&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp APG&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp SPG&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp BPG&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp TO&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp PF&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp PPG
99-00&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp LAC&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 76&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 70&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 36.4&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .438&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .360&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .719&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 2.10&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 5.70&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 7.80&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 4.2&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1.20&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1.25&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3.39&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3.80&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 16.6
00-01&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp LAC&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 76&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 74&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 37.3&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .460&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .316&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .679&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1.40&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 6.30&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 7.80&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 5.2&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .97&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1.61&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3.47&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3.10&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 17.2
01-02&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp LAC&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 29&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 25&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 34.4&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .419&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .190&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .656&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1.10&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 5.00&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 6.10&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 5.9&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .79&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1.24&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3.34&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3.10&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 13.1
02-03&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp LAC&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 49&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 47&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 34.3&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .439&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .326&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .777&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1.20&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 5.40&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 6.70&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3.6&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .86&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .84&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 2.86&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3.70&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 14.6
Career&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 230&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 216&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 36.0&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .444&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .313&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .709&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1.60&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 5.80&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 7.30&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 4.6&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1.00&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1.28&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3.30&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3.50&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 15.9

http://clippers.topbuzz.com/albums/lamar_odom/aau.jpg



My Take:

Odom is versatile enough to play all five positions except center. If the Spurs got him, I’d like to see him put on some more muscle. That way, he could bang with the Western power forwards. Added strength would also help him stay injury-free, a problem he’s had in his career.


The Spurs would also have to hope that he could keep his pot-smoking on the down-low. Veterans will recall that I actually was in a cipher with Odom back in 1997 when he visited my college in CT. He’s good people.


If he gets caught again, it’s an automatic suspension. Odom would supplant Stephen Jackson as the ballin’est Spur on the team.

Odom is a 6’10 forward with the passing skills of an average point guard. He can score and rebound, too. Odom can eve hit the occasional three. Odom went fourth overall in the draft.

Get him if it’s a choice between him and Nesterovic.



:cooldevil

Truthsayer
07-08-2003, 12:33 PM
Very nice post Ghost.

Odom is an intriguing prospect. My question is, can he play defense? If so, he might be worth spending some of cap space on. How much do you think it would take to sign him.

You were in a "cipher" with him? Is that like Louis Cipher? :cooldevil

MannyIsGod
07-08-2003, 12:33 PM
Same problems as brand, he's restricted.

I love his game, and I think he and Manu on the smae court would be sick with their court vision.

Not power forward material though, if think if you do tht you take him out of the creative aspect of his game.

Ghost Writer
07-08-2003, 12:36 PM
About a year ago on the old Forum, I started a thread that many people p1ssed on suggesting that we'd probably be faced with settling on one of the Clippers castoffs like Olowokandi or Odom... but the good news is that one of 'em would come for less than the max.

Many veterans insisted that those guys would get the max elsewhere or that they weren't worth getting.

Well, I think that it's looking like I may have been right about something after all.

Signing Odom to a multiyear deal at around $7 million or so would allow us to retain most of our young championship nucleus.


Could you live with a starting lineup like this?:

PF Odom
SF Bowen
C Duncan
PG Parker
SG Jackson

or:

PF Duncan
SF Odom
C Rose
PG Parker
SG Jackson

or:

PF Odom
SF Jackson
C Duncan
PG Parker
SG Ginobili

and Claxton still backing up Parker?


Question.


:cooldevil

Truthsayer
07-08-2003, 12:47 PM
If getting Brand and O'Neal are out of the question, my next choice would probably be Odom or Kandi, but only if they would sign for 7 million or less. I'm a little nervous about Kandi having a guaranteed contract at all, but I've got to be realistic. I read somewhere that Robert Parish was considered a semi-bust like Kandi until he was traded to the Celtics.

If we offered Odom 7 million would he take it and would the Clippers try to match?

MannyIsGod
07-08-2003, 12:54 PM
Pop needs to call cleo and find out about htis matching shit.

picnroll
07-08-2003, 12:58 PM
FAs seem to be drying up. If Sterling lets Odom walk and it come down to offers from the Spurs and Miami I think Odom would take Miami.

If it's not Kidd it could be a big, Rash/ PJ, and Maggette.
and hope Maggette explodes?

Ghost Writer
07-08-2003, 12:59 PM
'Kandi said he'd look at the Nuggets for $6 million, so why not the champs (us) for $7?

I don't see anyone offering anything to Odom, so I think he could be had.

I don't think the Clippers will match on these guys if they re-up Brand for the max.

I don't know why the Spurs aren't offering Brand a deal like the Jazz are, but that's another story.


Last year when I thought about taking advantage of all the Clips' free agents, I just couldn't imagine Sterling retaining all these guys:

E. Brand (max worthy)
A. Miller (semi-max worthy)
M. Olowokandi (under max worthy)
L. Odom (under max worthy)
C. Maggette (under max worthy)
E. Piatkowki (under MLE worthy)

Something's gotta give here.

The worst thing that could happen is the Jazz get Brand or Miller and Sterling matches to retain nearly everyone else. :cry












:cooldevil

Truthsayer
07-08-2003, 01:09 PM
I don't know why the Spurs aren't offering Brand a deal like the Jazz are, but that's another story.

How could the Spurs offer Brand anything with Kidd and O'Neal in town this week? Anyway, the Clips would have 15 days to match AFTER the earliest possible signing date, taking us completely out of the FA sweepstakes until August.

Brand would be my first choice FA for the Spurs, but unless Sterling were willing to talk deal, there is no way to approach Brand without screwing ourselves with the other top tier FA's.

Jimcs50
07-08-2003, 01:11 PM
Maggette> Odom

MannyIsGod
07-08-2003, 01:16 PM
Jim = crackhead

Ghost Writer
07-08-2003, 01:19 PM
"How could the Spurs offer Brand anything with Kidd and O'Neal in town this week? Anyway, the Clips would have 15 days to match AFTER the earliest possible signing date, taking us completely out of the FA sweepstakes until August." — TS
Do you think the Jazz are worried about missing out on A. Miller because they're pursuing Brand?

Won't we look dumb if Brand winds up going to a division rival because we were led on by Kidd or O'Neal?

Where else are Kidd or O'Neal gonna go besides back to their old teams?

This is not a sprint; it's a marathon.



:cooldevil

Truthsayer
07-08-2003, 01:30 PM
Missing out on Andre Miller is hardly comparable to missing out on O'Neal or Kidd (although I don't favor Kidd)

Sure we could take a chance of missing out on Nesterovic or Kandi to take a chance on getting Brand.

Another well though out post Ghost.

Ghost Writer
07-08-2003, 01:39 PM
Are you instigating me again, Truthsayer?

I'd rather put in abid for Brand now. We could still entertain O'Neal and Kidd. It would let them know that we're looking into every option.

Kidd and O'Neal aren't going to be turned off by us because we made an initial offer to Brand.

:cooldevil

scott
07-08-2003, 01:53 PM
Reports are that Odom is the guy Sterling likes the most- making him the lost likely match target.

I'd like to have him- I think we could throw out some interesting rotations, having him split time at the 3 and 4

Minute Breakdown:

PG: Parker 35, Speedy 13
SG: Jackson 20, Manu 28
SF: Bowen 20, Odom 20, Jackson 8
PF: Odom 20, Rose 28
C : Duncan 38, Willis/FA 10

In this scenario, we'd also leave some cap room on the table, allowing us to go over the MLE to resign Manu next offseason.

Ghost Writer
07-08-2003, 02:26 PM
Now you're talkin', scott. Even though Sterling likes Odom, is he gonna match if he indeeds re-ups Brand for the max?

The Spurs have to be deft here. If Brand re-signs with the Clippers, they have to jump on Odom.

If Brand goes elsewhere, we have to hope it's to SA, because Sterling will then match offers for his remaining free agents.


:cooldevil

scott
07-08-2003, 02:36 PM
I'm not sure which order, but I believe Brand and Odom are the two RFAs most likely to be matched by Sterling. *If* we have to take a gamble on one of them, I'd prefer Brand- especially since its going to be easier for Sterling to match a $7 mil/4 year (for example) deal for Odom than it will be for him to actually put the pen to the paper and match that 6 year max deal.

If Brand does put his name on the bottom line, however, and Odom is still available- I don't see the harm is making the offer. At that point, we will have lost out on the Big 4 (JO, Brand, Kidd, Payton), and I can't think of any other FAs that are worth passing on Odom for.

Of course, I'm not sure if Pop and RC are willing to take a chance on an Uber-balla. Sure, they had success with Jack and Speedy- but those guys don't have Odom's troubled past following them. In fact, aside from the headbands and bling bling- both Jack and Speedy seem fairly non-balla-like, in that they both seem like guys with high character, something Peter Holt has publicly said is as important as a players on the court skills when they evaluate FAs.

But, mabye Pop and RC will be all for Odom and will make a run at him should the top options dissipate.

Ghost Writer
07-08-2003, 02:42 PM
I know we got into an argument about this the other day, but why don't the Spurs make an offer to Brand like the Jazz did?

It's not like the Spurs can't still woo Kidd and O'Neal while Brand contemplates all the options and sees if Sterling will match.

This summer of free agency is turning into a high stakes game of hot tamale.






P.S.


I would hope that Pop and Co. would have a long talk with Odom before bringing him in. The nice thing is that Odom is 6'10 and can play a PF if need-be.


:cooldevil

Marcus Bryant
07-08-2003, 02:45 PM
It's kinda hard to see the Spurs waiting for 2 weeks in free agency waiting on Sterling. My guess that the Spurs could try to lock up a decent big like PJ Brown and then use the remaining cap room to make an offer to Odom.

Jimcs50
07-08-2003, 02:47 PM
Manny, you are the dumbfuck if you do not think Maggette is better than Odom. Have you even watched Cory play? WTF do you think Denver is so hot to get him?

Ghost Writer
07-08-2003, 02:50 PM
If I were the Spurs, I would wait the 2 weeks. We have the money. We have the power. If Kidd or O'Neal are going to go elsewhere, it's back to their original teams. I'm not worried about how they'd react to us pursuing Brand if they couldn't give us an immediate answer up front.

We've waited two years to get a superstar big man, what's two weeks?


:cooldevil

picnroll
07-08-2003, 02:54 PM
There is NO possible way that we can put out an offer to Brand while we have an offer out to Kidd. Putting an offer out to Brand is telling Kidd "you're our second choice, let's see what Brand does and we'll get back to you in a couple of weeks. That contract we just proposed to you only takes effect if Sterling matches."

Best we can hope for is that Kidd gives a firm yes or no soon (today preferably) so we know he's in the bag or we need to move on.

Ghost Writer
07-08-2003, 02:57 PM
Um, picnroll... that's exactly what I want the Spurs to say to Kidd. Brand should be the first choice!




P.S.

Jimmy, Maggette is in no way, shape or form better than Odom.

YEAR&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp TEAM&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp G&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp GS&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp MPG&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp FG%&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3P%&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp FT%&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp OFF&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp DEF&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp RPG&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp APG&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp SPG&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp BPG&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp TO&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp PF&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp PPG


Maggette 02-03&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp LAC&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 64&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 57&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 31.3&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .444&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .350&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .802&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1.20&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3.80&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 5.00&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1.9&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .86&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .25&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 2.30&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3.00&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 16.8

Odom 02-03&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp LAC&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 49&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 47&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 34.3&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .439&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .326&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .777&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1.20&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 5.40&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 6.70&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3.6&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .86&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .84&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 2.86&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3.70&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 14.6


Odom beats him in every statistical category aside from PPG. And Odom was hurt last year. We need height, not swingmen anyway, sport.

:cooldevil

Jimcs50
07-08-2003, 03:04 PM
Ghost, have you noticed a trend in Maggette's game???? He has improved in every statistical category since 02, including this past year in Dec and Jan. Everyone who knows anything can see this, and everyone whos knows anything knows that is is a superstar on the rise. Odon has been declining for 2 yrs...check out the stats.

I will bet you $1000 right now, that at the end of next year, Maggette will have surpassed Odom in all stats and in the minds of everyone in here? We can have Kori hold the thousand dollars in escrow and collect a yr from now. Deal???

MannyIsGod
07-08-2003, 03:06 PM
Jim Jim Jim

You're the only one who thinks maggette is better than odom.

Jim = lonely crackhead

Ghost Writer
07-08-2003, 03:06 PM
Dude, we are talking about right now.

Odom > Maggette


Height is right.


:cooldevil

picnroll
07-08-2003, 03:09 PM
Um, picnroll... that's exactly what I want the Spurs to say to Kidd. Brand should be the first choice!
Report seems to be that Kidd has offer in hand so making Brand "first choice" is moot.

I would think if Kidd intended to come to the Spurs he would make the commitment publicly soon so that big FAs would know where he's going and the Spurs could get the best big possible, which would be in his interest. If it drags out you have to wonder.

Ghost Writer
07-08-2003, 03:13 PM
Okay, so is it illegal to have more than one offer out there?






Question.


:cooldevil

KoriEllis
07-08-2003, 03:14 PM
Report seems to be that Kidd has offer in hand

How did you conclude that? Kidd (or his agent) haven't said a word. And all the Spurs have said to the media is that the trip seemed to have gone well, but that Kidd didn't give them any indication.

Truthsayer
07-08-2003, 03:25 PM
Okay, so is it illegal to have more than one offer out there?

How many girls did you ask out to the prom? 8o

Ghost Writer
07-08-2003, 03:32 PM
The way you guys are thinking, the Spurs will be putting all their eggs in one basket... the wrong basket.

Please provide the link to the report that Kidd has recieved an offer for Kidd.

I am still waiting for a compelling argument as to why the Spurs haven't offered Brand a deal alá the Jazz.

Waiting two weeks for Sterling to match is not a good enough reason not to try, when Kidd or O'Neal are iether coming to us or staying put anyway.


:cooldevil

Nikos
07-08-2003, 03:51 PM
Right now Maggette is NOT better than Lamar Odom.

Odom has way more versatility right now, plus he is a lot taller and could easily play the 3 or maybe the 4 at times.

I like Odom's talent a lot and from that stand point I would like the Spurs getting him. However his past drug problems and injuries are a little worrisome -- but if SOMEHOW he could put that behind him I would say he would fit in a lot better than Maggette would.

Maggette I could not see playing SF here, Odom is made for the SF position and he even has demonstrated some PG orchestrating skills. Im not saying Odom needs to be a PG but he is taller and more versatile than Maggette and he would fit better than Maggette would.

Now of course none of that means anything if Odom's injuries remain a problem or he continues with the drug problem -- but from the Spurs standpoint if you have to choose between Maggette and Odom based on what you have -- you go with ODOM.

picnroll
07-08-2003, 03:55 PM
My mistake. It was at the end of Ludden's article and it said "Spurs a re prepared to offer" and I remebered it as have offered.

Nevertheless it remians that a offer to Brand will tie up the Spurs cap space until August. Kidd and his agent will take no offer from the Spurs seriously if an offer is made to Brand. He'll just turn around and sign with Sterling. We could watch as Brown, Malone, Howard fall to Miami, LA, Minn. Possibly Nasterovic to Minn or NY which he's got the hots for. Then we'll be left hoping Sterling won't match on Odom and Maggette. Then hope Kandi, a guy who could be a long term untradeable bust, hasn't been grabbed by Denver. Not a path the Spurs probably want to risk.

Ghost Writer
07-08-2003, 03:59 PM
picnroll, it would take about two weeks to see if Sterling would match an offer for Brand from the Spurs. What are Kidd and O'Neal's options during that time?

They can sign with their current teams or wait for us, same as they are now.

Right or wrongs?

:cooldevil

Jimcs50
07-08-2003, 04:05 PM
Ghost, we are not talking about right this minute. We are talking about next season in Jan-June when it matters. Maggete will be a star player and you will see this this year. Odom is injury prone and has diminishing skills. Maggette can play the 3 as well as anyone the Spurs have right now and is a better defensive player than Odom as well.

scott
07-08-2003, 04:13 PM
Ghost, I *think* (meaning I am not sure) that when we extend and offer sheet to an RFA, that immediately counts against our cap until he is matched by the other team. So we couldn't extend the offer sheet and offer Kidd a contract, because we don't have the cap room.

We could have a *wink wink* deal to Kidd that says if Brand (or whoever) gets matched, then we'll offer you the deal- but I think a guy like Kidd would be turned off by that. You know I want Brand more than anyone, but I don't think that approach is really a viable option- I wish it were though.

As for "Kidd is in hand" I said that based on my overexaggeration to the reports that O'Neal trip was "mutually cancelled." I was over reacting.

As far as Odom vs. Maggette... even if Maggette is better than Odom, we should STILL go after Odom. Odom can give us minutes at the 4- something we need. There is no room for Maggette in our line up.

Ghost Writer
07-08-2003, 04:14 PM
We are indeed talking about right now, but regardless, I'd rather Odom on my team than another high-falootin' swingman like Maggette. I am happy with Ginobili and Jackson on our perimeter. You can have Maggette and I'll take the Scottie Pippen-esque, 6'10 Odom to play 4 out of five positions, champ.



:cooldevil

picnroll
07-08-2003, 04:14 PM
These guys do have an ego. Kidd wants to feel the love in all likelihood. If Kidd is straddling the fence somewhat and the Spurs don't show him love he's more inclined to fall on the NJ side.

Spurs have to play both who they want and who the probabilities are they can get. So if both players help, even if they preferred Brand, if there is a much higher probability of getting Kidd that might be the logical move.

Ghost Writer
07-08-2003, 04:36 PM
Wrong.

There's no harm in offering to both right now at the same time.

You ignore the fact that Kidd has no choice but to take our offer any way he gets it or go back to Jersey.


:cooldevil

scott
07-08-2003, 04:40 PM
Do you think that our offering to Brand wouldn't immediately force him to sign with Jersey?

If we sign Brand, that could seriously hamper Kidd negotiating ability with NJ.

Say that Brand doesn't get matched, LA signs some other players, Denver signs Kandi and Arenas, Miami signs whoever, and Utah signs Dre Miller...

What is Kidd left to do?

The Nets can than offer less than the max, but still more than any other team can offer. At that point, Kidd's only option would be to take the Nets offer, or play for even less somewhere else.

scott
07-08-2003, 04:42 PM
I fear our top two options are fading away fast.

http://www.classicalgeometry.com/wow.JPG

Ghost Writer
07-08-2003, 04:47 PM
"The Nets can than offer less than the max, but still more than any other team can offer. At that point, Kidd's only option would be to take the Nets offer, or play for even less somewhere else." — scott
You're catching on.

So either we force Kidd to come to us or stay in Jersey, while we wait to see if Sterling will match our offer for Brand.

Either way, we win.


:cooldevil

scott
07-08-2003, 04:52 PM
Not exactly, Ghost.

The second Jason Kidd sees us make the offer to Brand, he realizes what is going on and runs back to NJ and immediately signs for the max. Thorn will jump on this because the possibility is still there for Brand to get matched and for us to sign Kidd for the Max, leaving the Nets with their dicks in their hands.

So Kidd signs for the max in NJ, Brand gets matched, and we are left with nothing.

Ghost Writer
07-08-2003, 05:07 PM
What makes you think that Kidd wouldn't accept the Spurs offer right away or wait to see if the Clippers match the Spurs offer?



Question.


:cooldevil

scott
07-08-2003, 05:15 PM
I'm getting confused- so let me try to recap the situation to make sure we are talking about the same thing:

1. We extend an offer sheet to Elton Brand for the max, and wait to see if Sterling matches.

2. At the same time, we offer Jason Kidd an offer, contingent on Brand getting matched. That is, if Brand doesn't get matched, there is no deal with Kidd. If Brand does get matched, Kidd signs with us.

Is that the scenario?

We can't do that, because the offer sheet (again, this is what I think, we need a capologist to tell us definitively) counts against our cap until he is matched or signed (in which case his contract counts against our cap) so we have no cap space to offer Kidd a contract.

The best we can do is tell Kidd that if Brand get matches, we will sign him for the max.

However, if Brand doesn't get matched, Kidd has nowhere left to go because the Spurs can no longer afford to pay him and then the Nets can offer less than the Max and Kidd loses out on a LOT of money (he could demand the S&T to Dallas- but he no longer has leverage unless he is willing to play for the MLE).

So, when we extend the offer sheet to Brand- Kidd's best option is to immediately sign the max with NJ while he is still guaranteed Max money. Otherwise, he takes the risk of having to settle for less later. Thorn pays the max, because he runs the risk of losing Kidd if Brand does get matched.

Ghost Writer
07-08-2003, 05:30 PM
I though my Question was pretty direct, but I guess not.

If Sterling doesn't match our offer to get Brand, we sign Brand for the max and Kidd still gets the max from NJ. Period.

There's no disadvantage to Kidd to wait to see if the Spurs sign Brand.

Kidd will get the max from the Nets regardless.



:cool

scott
07-08-2003, 05:34 PM
The thing is, that without a threat to sign with us, Kidd doesn't necessarily have the leverage to sign with NJ to get the max.

Actually, I'm going to drop this arguement because I think the Nets would give him the max even if they could get him for half that price.

In a egoless world, I think you'd be right, Ghost.

But in this world, I think Kidd would sign with NJ the day after we extended the offer sheet to Brand.

Ghost Writer
07-08-2003, 05:47 PM
Um, I'm not dropping it, because it's that importnant.

If Kidd really wanted to play for the Spurs, he'd wait the 2-3 weeks to see how things shook out between Sterling, SA and Brand.

If the Spurs signed Brand, he gets the max from NJ.

If the Clips match to sign Brand, Kidd can get the max from SA.

Kidd will get the max this summer regardless of who SA signs.

So again I ask you why the Spurs aren't making it a priority to offer Brand a contract?




Question.



:cooldevil

scott
07-08-2003, 05:53 PM
Again Ghost, you are missing the key point and making a very dangerous assumption.

If we extend the offer sheet to Brand, Kidd could very well (and this is what I believe would happen) sign with NJ the next day and not wait the 2 weeks to see what happens.

What do we tell Jason... uh... yah... let's see what our first choice wants to do, and then we'll deal with you.

Kidd ain't going to go for that.

By offering Brand the max first, we risk losing out on all the top FAs.

This is why I wanted us to try to work a S&T deal now, when there is no risk involved. Apparently, Sterling isn't going for a S&T, so our best option is to see how Kidd plays out, then offer Brand the max.

I don't like the idea of getting Kidd when we could get Brand- but it is the safest bet. And that safe bet is most likely the way the Spurs want to play it.

Ghost Writer
07-08-2003, 06:27 PM
"If we extend the offer sheet to Brand, Kidd could very well (and this is what I believe would happen) sign with NJ the next day and not wait the 2 weeks to see what happens." — scott
For the seventh time, why in the hell would Kidd od that if he really wanted to play for the Spurs?


Question. x 7



:cooldevil

scott
07-08-2003, 06:31 PM
Because his desire to play for the Spurs would be significantly deminished when we tell him that we'd like for him to play for us, but only after our top options are no longer available. Especially when the guy we go after is a long shot. It is akin to saying "There is little chance we get this guy, but we want him so much more than you we are going to take a chance on him."

You scenario assumes that Kidd wants to play for so badly he is willing to be the ugly best friend while the Spurs pursue the girl of their dreams, Elton Brand.

The problem is that Kidd isn't an ugly best friend.

Ghost Writer
07-08-2003, 06:39 PM
I don't buy that.

The Spurs can be aggressive in getting their big man.

It's called priorities, pal.

the Spurs need Brand more than Kidd. If Kidd really wanted to join the Spurs for the max, I'm sure he could understand us seeing about Brand's availability as we talk to him about a contract, too.

Kidd is a businessman and the Spurs show no hard feelings as he listens to the Nets and the Mavs, so I'm sure he wouldn't be offended by the Spurs looking at all possibilities.

I will repeat myself:

Kidd will get the max from the Nets if he wants it at any point this summer, regardless of what the Spurs do or the timing of the situation.

Quit trying to find flaws in my logic to justify your ludicrous "work out a sign and trade with Sterling in one afternoon" proposal.

If the Spurs were serious about Brand, they'd offer him a deal just like Utah is, regardless of Kidd's feelings.

If Kidd wants to be a Spur, he'd ask for an offerfrom them if the Spurs were expressing interest in Brand as well.

He'd most assuredly wait to see if the Spurs landed Brand before being "forced" to re-sign for the max with the Nets.

If Kidd really wanted to be a Spur, 2-3 weeks of waiting for the Brand offer to be taken or matched wouldn't stop him from keeping the Nets on the line.

My way puts the Spurs in control.


:cooldevil

Gridmed
07-08-2003, 06:54 PM
GW,

Nice initial post on Odom. I really like this guy's prospects and have had an eye on him as being a break through type player as soon as he got away from the underachieving undirected uncaring Clippers' dirty hold. He is small and needs muscle, but would make a good addition.

Now, we must have an ample big guy in the center. And I'm not talking about a Nesterovich. Someone with real size and athletic ability. Yes-> The 'Kandiman is who I speak of...
Even Riley wants this guy, and we all know about Riley's track record with an eye for competitors and potential overachievers. He's got the size and athleticism to compete with the big dogs in the west (Barring subsequent injury). Is there some monumental reason why the spurs are steering clear of him? They think Denver will give more moolah, or just don't believe in his track record?

Finally, I don't think it would be the end of the world if we didnt sign a franchise player this year. After all, if we have the spare cap, Garnett is free next year. It's quite a pipe-dream, but could you imagine a TD/Garnett combo....

I think I just wet myself. :shock

Just some ideas....

-Grid

Archie
07-08-2003, 06:56 PM
Odom is such a long shot thanks to his restricted status and his price range. I think it would be a good gamble. Would the Spurs really want him though?

SanAntonioBard
07-08-2003, 07:17 PM
I think that if we want to sign Kandi AND another RFA from the Clips, we'd better sign the RFA first, and see if they match. Sterling would take too kindly to being twice raped by the same team.

Ghost Writer
07-09-2003, 10:38 AM
I wonder if Ford is talking out of his @ss. I want to see someone else report that the Spurs are interested in Odom.


P.S.

I guess scott's silence means he finally sees why offering Brand a contract wouldn't hurt our negotiations with Kidd if the PG really wanted to come to SA.


:cooldevil

scott
07-09-2003, 01:12 PM
Or maybe scott's silence means that he realizes you are a dumbass who isn't worth trying to reason with.

Ghost Writer
07-09-2003, 01:19 PM
Terrific comeback, scott — author of the idea that Kidd would rush to re-sign with the Nets if the Spurs negotiated with Brand. :rolleyes





:cooldevil

scott
07-09-2003, 01:21 PM
Because we all know how excited multi-millionaires get about the idea of being someone's second choice.

Quit living in your fantasy basketball world, Ghost. This is reality.

Ghost Writer
07-09-2003, 01:26 PM
Second choice?

The Spurs should be negotiating with all the best free agents this offseason!

You think Kidd is going to have his feelings hurt when J. O'Neal re-schedules his visit to SA?

Utah is talking dollars and cents with Brand right now and we should, too.

You've gone from insisting that we look into a sign & trade immediately to refusing to talk about a deal outright with Brand just because we're also wooing Kidd.

I think you just like to argue and refuse to admit when there's an alternative to your way of thinking.


:cooldevil

scott
07-09-2003, 01:26 PM
If Kidd really wanted to play for the Spurs, he'd wait the 2-3 weeks to see how things shook out between Sterling, SA and Brand.

That is the flaw in your logic, Ghost. Kidd doesn't want to play for the Spurs more than anything else in the world. He is currently torn between San Antonio and New Jersey. The Spurs telling Kidd he isn't their top priority is all the help Kidd needs to make his decision easier.

picnroll
07-09-2003, 01:31 PM
I'm warming to the idea of using a Brand offer on Kidd in the sense of telling Kidd we can't wait forever, we need to know by Friday or we want to move on and put out an offer to Brand. That way if Kidd's using the SA offer to leverage the situation in NJ they have limited time to work through things like signing Mourning, dealing with Martin and Harris, etc..

Ghost Writer
07-09-2003, 01:34 PM
:rollin

Give me a friggin' break. The spurs already offered him the max!

So is Jermaine O'Neal gonna immediately re-sign with the Pacers because the Spurs are in talks with Kidd, too.

No!

O'Neal will listen to the Spurs pitch.

I am tired of beating a dead horse. With Kidd deciding wher eto spend the rest of his career and it coming down to two choices — SA or NJ — there's no way that he's going to rush into any rash, emotional decisions based on who the Spurs are talking to.

Give it up.

Let's change the subject —

Do you think the fact that the Spurs have made no overtures towards Brand — talking a contract with him or a S&T with Sterling — should tell us that they're simply not interested in pursuing him?

The Spurs seem to have taken themselves out of the running for Brand.

Why?

Question.

:cooldevil

scott
07-09-2003, 01:36 PM
Second choice?

The Spurs should be negotiating with all the best free agents this offseason!

You think Kidd is going to have his feelings hurt when J. O'Neal re-schedules his visit to SA?

Utah is talking dollars and cents with Brand right now and we should, too.

You've gone from insisting that we look into a sign & trade immediately to refusing to talk about a deal outright with Brand just because we're also wooing Kidd.

I think you just like to argue and refuse to admit when there's an alternative to your way of thinking.



When you extend an offer sheet to a restricted free agent, you are immediately saying he is your first choice.

There is no recinding the offer. If he signs it, and it isn't matched, we MUST sign him.

Attempting to work a sign and trade is a different matter, because you can arrange the timing. Kidd can ask the Spurs why they are trying to work a S&T with Brand, and the Spurs can say it is in the event they can't get a deal done with Kidd.

There is no explaining away an offer sheet though. If the Spurs extend an offer sheet to Brand, they cannot make Kidd an offer- because they have no cap room to sign him (Brand's offer sheet counts against the cap). It because obvious the Brand is the first choice. Kidd's future depends on what happens with the Spurs and their first choice. Since Kidd is torn between the two, being the second choice for the Spurs makes his decision easier.

Never once have I suggested we not go after Brand like this- in fact I prefer becuase I don't want Kidd.

But when we extend an offer sheet to Brand, Kidd will sign with New Jersey. This is a most probable outcome, and there is no ignoring it just because you don't like it. We either go after Brand and risk not getting either him or Kidd- or we take the safe bet and sign Kidd.

scott
07-09-2003, 01:40 PM
Do you think the fact that the Spurs have made no overtures towards Brand — talking a contract with him or a S&T with Sterling — should tell us that they're simply not interested in pursuing him?

The Spurs seem to have taken themselves out of the running for Brand.



How do you know they haven't had any talks with Brand's people or Sterling?

It's often reported that Brand would be tops on the Spurs list if he weren't restricted- perhaps the Spurs are walking carefully on dangerous ground in order to give themselves the best chance of getting him (or some superstar).

Ghost Writer
07-09-2003, 01:44 PM
scott, you stubborn sunvabiyatch.

Even if the Spurs extended an offer sheet to Brand, there is nothing stopping Kidd from waiting to see if Brand accepts or Sterling matches!!! The max money will always be there to be taken from his only other alternative — the Nets! How dumb do you think he is? If he truly wanted to leave NJ for SA, he'd see how things shook out between SA and Brand, because it's not like NJ won't be waiting there with open arms regardless!

Incredulous.


:cooldevil

KoriEllis
07-09-2003, 01:45 PM
No one should assume that the Spurs' brass aren't doing something or attempting to do it just because you don't read about it in the press.

A lot of Spurs' activities you never read about.

scott
07-09-2003, 01:46 PM
If he truly wanted to leave NJ for SA

HELLO?!?!?!?!?! WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN!?!?!?!

He doesn't want to truely leave NJ for San Antonio. It isn't a no-brainer decision for him. He is torn, which means in his mind, the two decisions are just about equal.

All else equal, would you rather go where you are the first choice, or the second?

Ghost Writer
07-09-2003, 01:50 PM
Kidd says he's torn. Boo-hoo. He's going to ulitmately go where he wants to go. The Spurs can't clear the entire slate for him and let all other opportunities pass them by to protect his ego, scott.

C'mon, man.

Shouldn't O'Neal have rushed to sign with Indy by now since the Spurs already wooed Kidd and offered him the max?


The Sours don't have to extend an offer sheet to Brand. They can't for a couple weeks anyway. They can talk about a deal with him now just like Utah is and exaclty like they did the other day with Kidd.

Get a grip.


:cooldevil

scott
07-09-2003, 01:58 PM
Talking about a deal with Brand now isn't going to tell us anything we don't already know. He'll say "yah, I'd love to play for you for the max."

Then what?

We extend an offer sheet on July 16 and wait two weeks.

With O'Neal, we can still explain things away.

ONeal: "Why are you meeting with Kidd."

Us: "In the event we can't get you."

You cannot explain away your extending an offer sheet to a RFA, though- you cannot make deals to anyone else while the offer is waiting to be matched because you have no cap room. You cannot take your offer off the table for the RFA either.

timvp
07-09-2003, 02:25 PM
Brand and all the other big name FA's seem like a moot point.

The Spurs are going after Kidd. He is the only person on their list now.




Interesting.

Ghost Writer
07-09-2003, 02:25 PM
The fact remains that the NEts will still be there waiting for Kidd with open arms and max money should he wait and see what becomes of a Spurs/Brand scenario.

He's not going to act like a little b1tch and immediately re-sign with the Nets like you insist.

If he did that, then he really wasn't serious abot the SPurs in the first place.



I'd love to know why the Spurs aren't at leats talking to Brand like the Jazz are.



:cooldevil

timvp
07-09-2003, 02:30 PM
:wtf

The Spurs have been in talks with Brand, Sterling and David Faulk since July 1.

They've tried to work out a sign-and-trade, but nothing has transpired as of yet.



I think it comes down to they think that if they offer a Max contract to Brand that Sterling will match.

No much you can do to top that -- so they moved on.





But where have you been, Brand was the person they went after FIRST.

Whottt
07-09-2003, 02:32 PM
TimVP, what does Brand think about signing with us next year? (all you guys who want to piss away our future in a lame and futile attempt to beat LA STFU!)

Ghost Writer
07-09-2003, 02:33 PM
timvp, I rely on ESPN Insider for most of my information. Could you please post the link to the report that said the Spurs were intalks with Brand and working on a S&T?

I am sure scott would be thrilled to hear about that.



:cooldevil

picnroll
07-09-2003, 02:37 PM
It's possible/likely the Spurs have sized up the Clippers RFAs and asked them or their agents "If we make you an offer (including for some a max offer) would you be willing to sign and risk Sterling matching" and the players, or the ones we're interested in, have said no. If that's the case the Spurs are SOL.

timvp
07-09-2003, 02:37 PM
If the Spurs don't land either Kidd or O'Neal, they have considered giving one of the next-tier free agents — Alonzo Mourning, P.J. Brown, Michael Olowokandi and Karl Malone are among the candidates — an inflated one-year contract to give themselves the option of pursuing Brand at the end of next season, provided he signs only a one-year deal with the Clippers this summer.



The Spurs spoke with representatives of most of the league's top free agents Tuesday, including David Falk, the agent for Los Angeles Clippers forward Elton Brand. The Spurs have not given up hope that a sign-and-trade deal could be worked for Brand. Because Brand is a restricted free agent, the Clippers can take up to 15 days to match any offer he receives July 16.



Apology Accepted.

Whottt
07-09-2003, 02:39 PM
So basically if Brand only take the QO from the Clips there's a very good chance the Spurs are gonna go after him?

Sweeeeeeet. I knew Brand, not Kidd, was Pop's wet dream.

Ghost Writer
07-09-2003, 02:42 PM
I didn't accuse you of lying, timvp, so No Apology Needed™.

Alright. Well at least they expressed interest in Brand. I would still wait to extend an offer sheet to him before committing to Kidd, though. If Sterling matches, sobeit. If Kidd is serious about the Spurs, he won't sign with NJ right away. I'll take my chances.




:cooldevil

timvp
07-09-2003, 02:45 PM
Sterling has scared the league into thinking he will match any offer. So no way in hell Brand accepts a max deal. You can put that idea to rest.

The Spurs can get Brand one of two ways.

1) Sign and trade.

2) Let him accept the QO and then go after him next year when he is an UFA.

picnroll
07-09-2003, 02:48 PM
Timvp, if we do a one year deal with someone and then go after Brand next year won't we be below the cap and thereby not have the MLE to offer Manu?

scott
07-09-2003, 06:58 PM
By the way, Ghost, it is now being reported that Kidd wants to make his decision no later than Monday.

So much for the idea that he wants to wait around to see what happens with Elton Brand.

MadeFromDust
07-10-2003, 08:21 AM
No potheads allowed! Just say NO! to Modo Ramal!

Ghost Writer
07-10-2003, 11:36 AM
"By the way, Ghost, it is now being reported that Kidd wants to make his decision no later than Monday.

So much for the idea that he wants to wait around to see what happens with Elton Brand." — scott

We'll never know, scott. It seems like the Spur sinquired about a S&T like you suggested and Sterling wasn't interested. Now the Spurs have put all the eggs in the Kidd basket.

Kidd is playing games between the Nets and the Spurs. If the Nets meet his demmands and he re-signs with them, maybe the Spurs will call the Clippers' bluff.

The Jazz have communicated an offer for the max to Brand, so they must not believe Sterling will re-up the big man.

Amidst the Brand confusion are four other desirable Clippers free agents.

My main thing is that the Spurs must want Kidd more if they're not willing to wait and gamble on Brand.


:cooldevil

picnroll
07-10-2003, 11:42 AM
Ghost two possibilities:

1) Spurs approached Brand and said if we make a max offer will you accept and risk Sterling picking up the contract and Brand said no it's S&T or I'm waiting a year.

or

2) Maybe the Spurs would rather go after Brand next year not risking making an offer, having Sterling match, and take Brand out of the picture for good

Ghost Writer
07-10-2003, 11:49 AM
I understand that, picnroll, but Utah seems all set to offer Brand the max and force Sterling's hand anyway. That's the key point that made me think we should get in on that bidding, too.


:cooldevil

picnroll
07-10-2003, 11:53 AM
Has Utah actully made an offer or just talking about it?

Seattle Times is reporting that Payton's stay in Seattle is a one year thing then he's moving on to get paid so the window may re-open even if Spurs can't bulk up this year.

Ghost Writer
07-10-2003, 11:58 AM
picnroll, no one can officially extend an offer sheet to a free agent until this Wednesday. Utah is reportedly prepared to do so to Brand. I think the Spurs should, too.


:cooldevil

scott
07-10-2003, 12:15 PM
I agree that we should allow Utah to make the Max offer to Brand if we have equal opportunity to do so.

Even though I don't want Kidd- I think we have to see what happens with him first, though.

If Kidd resigns with the Nets (which I hope he does) we have two options.

1) We can offer Brand the max before he signs Utah's offer sheet (thus meaning he will be a Clipper or a Jazz... is that how you refer to a member of the Jazz... a Jazz?)

2) We can call Sterling again and say: "This is really happening Donny Boy... if you aren't ready to match that Max offer, you still have time to work a S&T with us.

Ghost Writer
07-10-2003, 12:23 PM
Either way is fine by me, scott. Finally, something we can both agree on! :lol




If we strike out on Kidd, I can't see the Spurs pussyfooting around a Brand acquisition.

Utah having the balls to extend him an offer tells me they don't believe Sterling will match. We should think the same way.

:cooldevil

scott
07-10-2003, 12:26 PM
Yes, it would be a DAMNED shame to watch the Holting Pattern result in Kidd staying put, ONeal staying put, Brand going to Utah, and Payton/Malone going to LA. The hardest part to swallow being Brand, Payton and Malone. There is no reason these other teams should be outbidding the World Champion San Antonio Spurs.

Archie
07-10-2003, 12:28 PM
Short of Parker I don't see anything the Spurs have that Sterling would want in a sign and trade.

If you challenge him straight up on Brand then (assuming Brand goes along) you have to wait 15 days. During that time you will lose out on a number of solid free agents. PJ Brown is one that comes to mind. Other younger free agents that the Spurs might be interesting in might find new homes by then. And of course Sterling might 'go crazy' and match that offer.

Ghost Writer
07-10-2003, 12:39 PM
"Short of Parker I don't see anything the Spurs have that Sterling would want in a sign and trade." — Archie
Um, how about money and picks, Arch. When has Sterling ever been satiated by that before?

Once again, if you want to pass on Brand for Brown or some other Unidentified Free Agents (U.F.A.s), then be my guest.

I'll negotiate for Brand's services for two weeks.


He's worth it and there's no one left worth hurrying for.




:cooldevil

Archie
07-10-2003, 12:43 PM
You are assuming that the Clippers are a normal NBA operation. They aren't. They would be more than happy to have Elton Brand for one more season and then see him walk instead of giving him up now for 'picks and cash'.

scott
07-10-2003, 12:44 PM
Some picks and cash might be all it takes for Sterling, though, if he isn't going to Match Utah's offer.

He offered Brand 5 years for $65 million- but that is about what our max 5 year deal would be with the 10% raises (given a $42 million cap). That is about 3 million less than what the 5 year max from LAC would be for Brand.

A 6 year max deal from us would be for $81 million (a 6 year max from LAC would be $86 million)

If Sterling doesn't want to pay more than $65 million, we just need to find out how much he values not paying that extra 16 million in year 6 if he matched.

I think A couple #1's and some cash could do it.

Ghost Writer
07-10-2003, 12:55 PM
Now we're cokkin', scott.

I am going under the premise that the Spurs approached Sterling with the intent of a S&T and he refused, as reported by timvp.

It comes down to SA joining Utah in offering Brand the max.

If Brand doesn't mind calling Sterling's bluff and perfers us over Utah (who wouldn't?), we're good to go.

We wait out the 15 days and dare Sterling to match.

In the end, we either wind up with Brand, or we look at other alternatives, like the 4 other Clippers free agents that won't likey committ anywhere until Brand makes his decision.


:cooldevil

Archie
07-10-2003, 12:59 PM
From the Spurs' POV what is the cost of making a max offer to Brand (which he accepts) on July 16th, waiting 15 days, and having Sterling match?

Pretty much the Spurs would lose out on most desirable free agents. My guess is that they would then start looking for trades using their cap flexibility to acquire a decent big.

Ghost Writer
07-10-2003, 01:05 PM
Who?

Who are these desirable free agents that they will miss out on?


Odom and Olowokandi aren't gonna do a damn thing until Brand's contract is resolved.


Where's PJ Brown, Nesterovic, Mourning and Arenas all going to go without exploring a Spurs opportunity?


None of those free agents are worth skipping due diligence with Brand anyway!


:cooldevil

scott
07-10-2003, 01:06 PM
Because of Brand's lower max (25% vs. 30%), we'll still have a decent amount of capspace while Brand is waiting for the match.

Given that we already have Malik Rose as our primary backup big, we probably won't use that space to go after PJ Brown or Brad Miller (which are the only FA Bigs I'd care about losing out on), because then we'd have a logjam at our big spots if Brand does sign with us.

But we can still go after some other FAs with that money. Maybe a backup point? Maybe a 2/3?

If the cost of going after Brand is losing out on PJ Brown or Brad Miller- I take that chance and then try to trade for a big man if I lose out on Brand.

IMO, Brown and Miller are not worth giving a half-assed effort at getting Brand. Sure there is a risk involved, but there is also a huge upside to that risk.

Archie
07-10-2003, 01:08 PM
PJ Brown would probably go to Orlando, who is offering him their full MLE for 4 years, I believe.

Ghost Writer
07-10-2003, 01:11 PM
Bravo, scott.

We are in total accord.


It's not like Kidd and O'Neal are going to be out there flailing in the wind for those 15 days.

We're talking about all the Plan F free agents anyway.

Brad Miller is not leaving a good situation in his homestate now that O'Neal is committed to re-signing.

PJ Brown can wait while we address Brand.

Olowokandi, Odom, A. Miller and Maggette will all probably wait to see what happens with Brand first.

I can't believe Archie would rather scurry for so-so free agents than roll the dice on Brand — many of our first choice for the 2+ years of the Holt-ing Pattern along with O'Neal.

:cooldevil

Ghost Writer
07-11-2003, 11:30 AM
So does anyone think we'll get Brand to accept an offer from us?


Odom?



Olowokandi?


Anyone?




:cooldevil

smackdaddy11
07-11-2003, 11:34 AM
The only way he would accept (I mean sign an offer sheet) is their would be assurances the Clips wouldn't match.

Otherwise, I don't see him risking 6 years with the Donald.

Ghost Writer
07-12-2003, 01:36 PM
smack, let's face it -- Sterling will most likely have Brand under contract next season for the max. Assumming Odom is worth about $10 million next season, do you really see Sterling having $23 million tied up in two players?

If you can buy that, then that means we can still freely pursue Olowokandi, A. Miller or Maggette.

All these free agents will not be re-signed by Sterling.


Funny how it's looking more and more like an Olowokandi summer after all, huh?




Question.



:cooldevil

Ghost Writer
07-16-2003, 10:17 AM
At this point, do we pray that Sterling matches the Heat's offer for Brand, so he'll be less inclined to match for Odom?









Question.




:cooldevil

picnroll
07-16-2003, 10:19 AM
Only if we put the offer on the table NOW as take it or leave it today. Otherwise Odom will take an offer from Miami after Sterling signs Brand.

MannyIsGod
07-16-2003, 10:20 AM
I'd say yes to that.

but the question is, how leary of Odom is the front office?

Ghost Writer
07-16-2003, 10:35 AM
That's what I am afraid of, picnroll. If we were smart, we'd concentrate on Odom now while the Clippers and Heat arm-wrestle over Brand!







:cooldevil

picnroll
07-16-2003, 10:42 AM
We can't assume the Spurs aren't trying. Odom is a better fit with current personell (Malik) than Brand but it takes two to play. Odom has got to want or be willing to come to SA. He may be holding out for South Beach.

I hope T Wolves hold on to Brandon's contract or at least don't trade it to Miami.

Ghost Writer
07-16-2003, 11:08 AM
So you're saying either way we lose, picnroll?




Question.


:cooldevil

CosmicCowboyXXX
07-16-2003, 12:11 PM
I agree with making Odom an offer the day after Brand signs the Miami offer...maybe 6 years starting at 7 mil...structure it like the Miami deal for Brand with an upfront load...tell Odom to make up his mind...no bullshit with waiting to see what happens with Brand and Miami...

personally, in that situation I think Sterling would match for Brand and let Odom walk...

hmmm...

Starting lineup:

5) Nesterostiffy
4) Duncan
3) Odom
2) SJax
1) Parker

damn...that is a BIG and FAST lineup! Bring on the fucking Lakers...

I could even see continuing to start Bowen for his defense on the opposing "star" and bringing in Rose and Odom as bench energy guys...

Marcus Bryant
07-16-2003, 12:13 PM
The likely scenario is that Sterling matches neither.

Ghost Writer
07-16-2003, 12:24 PM
"The likely scenario is that Sterling matches neither." — Marcus
:lol

Yeah, Sterling is gonna let Miller, Maggete, Olowokandi, Brand and Odom all walk.

So now he's a cheapskate, a liar and a complete horse's @ss?


:cooldevil

picnroll
07-16-2003, 12:27 PM
So you're saying either way we lose, picnroll?

Never say die, at least until you're dead. Odom may not want to play in sleepy little SA under any circumstances. He may want to play for South Beach. He may want to play on a shitty team forever in Hollywood more than go to a winner in SA. He may want to paly out his year and make a choice in another playas city that has cap space.

Of all the players out there I thought if Brand would run the risk of challenging Sterling, it would be him. I thought he fit the Spurs intelligent play, mature team approach and wouldn't need a playas enviroment.

Lessons of FA, cap space does suck because the list of talented players that fit into and would accept Pop, the Spurs team atmosphere, and SA is extremely limited. Kidd and his $2000 dollar suits and wife that gets her rocks off hob nobbing with and thinking she is a celebrity doesn't fit. O'Neal fits but that's the reason he isn't coming because he's a loyal kind of guy. Brand? Maybe it's because everybody knows TD is SO MUCH the man in SA and he wants at least his piece of the play. Who knows. Odom? Not the kind of guy the Spurs have gone after. Suppose to have potential but hasn't shown it yet may have to throw a contract at him like he has. Damn, if Pop weren't friends with Rasho we might be spending all our cap on vet minumum players.

kohai
07-16-2003, 12:32 PM
So now he's a cheapskate, a liar and a complete horse's @ss?

I'd say that about covers it.

Ghost, they still have Ely, Wilcox, Kaman, "Shorty" Schortsaniasis, Q-Rich, Jaric, and Keyon Dooling, all on rookie contracts. That's almost a complete rotation, and I think that if Odom gets a REAL nice offer, they match on Maggette, not Odom.

Ghost Writer
07-16-2003, 12:37 PM
There has been no inclination to match Maggette... only brand and Odom.

All those rookie contracts do not add up to minimum payroll requiremnets.

Next.


:cooldevil

MannyIsGod
07-16-2003, 12:40 PM
Well apparently you havne't been in the chat very much and ifyou have you haven't been listening very well dumbass.

Those rookie contracts add up to 20 mill, all he needs is 8 mill more.

Ghost Writer
07-16-2003, 12:52 PM
Manny, you've already admitted to know nothing more than what we're talking about today. I have a direct link to The Powers The Be™ of FullSportPress.com, so don't test me.

Who do you think that extra $8 million-plus will go to, dope?

Brand or Odom.

Next.


:cooldevil

ducks
07-16-2003, 12:52 PM
Olowokandi?


ghost he has signed with the wolves

Ghost Writer
07-16-2003, 12:56 PM
ducks, we're having a conversation here. Shut the quack up.

Sterling will most certainly sign either Brand or Odom. The Heat will likely get either or.

We need a miracle.


:cooldevil

MannyIsGod
07-16-2003, 01:02 PM
lmao @ ghost learning how to use yahoo messenger. Whoopty fucking do.

my point was that he doens't have to sign either one of those to make minimum payroll, dumbass.

My mistake though, I forget we established your reading comprehension skills suck yesterday.

Ghost Writer
07-16-2003, 01:06 PM
I don't use Yahoo Messenger, dipsh1t. unlike you, I have a relationship with the noble purveyors of this site.

Who is Sterling going to pay $8 million to make minimum requirements, Emmy?



Question.


:cooldevil

MannyIsGod
07-16-2003, 01:08 PM
Arenas has shown interest in playing in LA.

And congrats on having people that tolerate you as a friend, ghost.

Marcus Bryant
07-16-2003, 01:09 PM
Manny knows LJ and Kori too, Kaspar.

Ghost Writer
07-16-2003, 01:12 PM
Somehow I doubt Arenas is going to the Clippers, Manny. I told you people that he'd be back in Oakland next year.

Marcus, I wa sexplaining to [/b]Emmy[/b] why chat is not the only way one can be privvy to inside knowledge.


:cooldevil

MannyIsGod
07-16-2003, 01:15 PM
The clippers thing isn't inside knowledge, just something we all discussed in there.

Its not all about inside knowledge asswhipe, we share info and put our heads together.

And I'm stating is possible, he has expressed interest through his agent (why is beyond me) in the media. He wants to play in LA and is open to playing for the clips.

Ghost Writer
07-16-2003, 01:17 PM
And I am telling you what is likely to happen, you stupid sunuvabiyatch.

Two players. Three teams.

Miami and LAC have the inside track.

We don't.

Next.

:cooldevil

MannyIsGod
07-16-2003, 01:22 PM
well no fucking shit, thanks for stating what has been said over and over for the past fucking month ghost.

Ghost Writer
07-16-2003, 01:24 PM
Then STFU and know your role.

Arenas is staying with Golden State.

Brand/Odom is going to Miami or LAC.

It's not lookin good for us, pal.


:cooldevil

MannyIsGod
07-16-2003, 01:28 PM
lmao, know my role?

I guess its not repeator of obvious info, you got dibs on that one don't you ghost?

Ok, i'll continue to bring new perspectives on situations while you bring the same tired old shit.

Ghost Writer
07-16-2003, 01:40 PM
Manny, when you figure out what exactly is the point you're trying to make, let me know.

You encouraged me to go to chat, because "there's more to this than meets the eye."

I laid out the way I think things will go down and now you're saying I am stating the obvious.

STFU already.

:cooldevil

Marcus Bryant
07-16-2003, 03:15 PM
The Clippers don't count except in theory and in Ghost's shithole of a brain.

Ghost Writer
07-16-2003, 03:22 PM
Marcus, do you want to make a bet that Brand or Odom re-sign with the Clippers?




Question.

Put up or shut up. B1tch.

:cooldevil

Marcus Bryant
07-16-2003, 03:48 PM
Sure bitch. You agree not to act like a whiney little bitch ever again.

Oh wait, you could never come through on that.

And either player signing a qualifying offer doesnt count. It has to be a straight up long term deal with the Los Angeles Clippers.

Ghost Writer
07-16-2003, 04:11 PM
Don't make conditions.

I am telling you that BRand or Odom will re-sign with the CLippers this season whether you like it or not.


:cooldevil

Marcus Bryant
07-16-2003, 04:13 PM
Bullshit. A one year qualifying offer is nothing. You are saying that the Clippers will actually take on a long term contract. That's the fucking issue here. The bet is that the Clippers sign Odom or Brand to a multi-year contract outright or that they match a similiar offer from another team. That's it. Put up or shut up.

Ghost Writer
07-16-2003, 05:16 PM
No.

I am saying that Odom or Brand will be signed by the Clippers — something you insisted would not happen, you thick-headed, back-pedalling, stupid sunuvabitch.

Take the bet as is or STFU.


:cooldevil

Marcus Bryant
07-16-2003, 05:20 PM
I said the Clippers would never agree to a long term big money deal with either of them or match an offer sheet for those type of terms because of Sterling's well-established history of thriftiness. The qualifying offer doesn't mean jack.

Ghost Writer
07-16-2003, 05:22 PM
That's not what you initially said, Marcus.

You condemned me for believing Sterling would sign either Brand or Odom. There was no mention of years.

The qualifying offer means we won'y be getting that player, @ssh0le.


:cooldevil

Marcus Bryant
07-16-2003, 05:32 PM
Again, bitch, I said that Sterling wouldn't match an long term offer to Odom or Brand.

Next.

Ghost Writer
07-16-2003, 05:49 PM
"The likely scenario is that Sterling matches neither." — Marcus

Marcus, be it through a qualifying offer or the max, Odom or Brand will be Clipper next season.

Period.

It's up to the Spurs to challenge Sterling and Miami for Brand or Odom.

:cooldevil