What old basketball games or clips have you been watching lately?

[DMC]

Jordan took 1.5 years off
:lol
Nostalgia goggles

After a 3-peat. Then he came back and 3 peated again When Kawhi has a 3-peat he can take that time.

[Dirks_Finale]

That 1.5 year off tho :lol

He took a break out of pure boredom. Today's players take off because they don't want to break a nail.

[Dirks_Finale]

And fail :lol

Gervin was built like a stick figure and was less skilled than KD

That didn’t prevent him from being a top scorer and he didn’t die either

Gervin didn't play in the 90s which is the decade i referenced. Try again. Do not pass go and do not collect $200.

[lefty]

Gervin didn't play in the 90s which is the decade i referenced. Try again. Do not pass go and do not collect $200.
The 90s were softer
The flagrant foul was instituted before the 90-91 season :lol ( because fake tough ass Jordan cried to Stern)

[Dirks_Finale]

The 90s were softer
The flagrant foul was instituted before the 90-91 season :lol ( because fake tough ass Jordan cried to Stern)

Jordan was getting decapitated anytime he went to the basket vs Detroit. Do I really need to pull up that old grainy azz footage for you :lol

He was their cash cow. Stern worshipped him just as Silver and ESPN worship Lebron. Flagrant foul was going to be implemented w/o Jordan crying for it.

[lefty]

Jordan was getting decapitated anytime he went to the basket vs Detroit. Do I really need to pull up that old grainy azz footage for you :lol

He was their cash cow. Stern worshipped him just as Silver and ESPN worship Lebron. Flagrant foul was going to be implemented w/o Jordan crying for it.

“Everytime he went to the basket”

Everytime?

Wrong wrong wrong wrong

Stop watching those highlight compilations and Come Fly With Me they sell to those rich white kids :lol no players didn’t get hit with machetes and chainsaws everytime they went to the ball
Watch a bunch of FULL games and you will see

:lol that brainwashing smh

But you are contradicting yourself you said the 90s were more physical than the 80s but then you bring up the Pistons beating up on Jordan and that happened during the 80s
Make up your mind :lol
The Jordan/Nike brainwash prevents any rational thinking

[Dirks_Finale]

“Everytime he went to the basket”

Everytime?

Wrong wrong wrong wrong

Stop watching those highlight compilations and Come Fly With Me they sell to those rich white kids :lol no players didn’t get hit with machetes and chainsaws everytime they went to the ball
Watch a bunch of FULL games and you will see

:lol that brainwashing smh

But you are contradicting yourself you said the 90s were more physical than the 80s but then you bring up the Pistons beating up on Jordan and that happened during the 80s
Make up your mind :lol
The Jordan/Nike brainwash prevents any rational thinking

No contradiction. Late 80s is what I was referring to.

Jordan got obliterated going to the basket. If you are honest with yourself you know this to he true.

[lefty]

Oh oh oh now it’s the late 80s
Moving goal posts lmao

And no Jordan didn’t get “obliterated” everytime he went to the basket :lol

Nigga was so soft he couldn’t beat a team whose most intimidating enforcer was a rich white boy with 0 muscle definition :lol

[Spurtacular]

:lol Every player besides Duncan in this video has an exhibition last points.
:lol Of course, they didn't include Bird though.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgIsGROqC5w

[lefty]

:lol Every player besides Duncan in this video has an exhibition last points.
:lol Of course, they didn't include Bird though.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgIsGROqC5w

Lol what a joke

[Neo.]

Oh oh oh now it’s the late 80s
Moving goal posts lmao

And no Jordan didn’t get “obliterated” everytime he went to the basket :lol

Nigga was so soft he couldn’t beat a team whose most intimidating enforcer was a rich white boy with 0 muscle definition :lol

the complete exaggeration by these guys is always amusing :lmao

2-3 legitimately hard fouls through an entire playoff series suddenly = obliterated every time he went to the basket

[Dirks_Finale]

Oh oh oh now it’s the late 80s
Moving goal posts lmao

And no Jordan didn’t get “obliterated” everytime he went to the basket :lol

Nigga was so soft he couldn’t beat a team whose most intimidating enforcer was a rich white boy with 0 muscle definition :lol

Hahaha yeah well I'd love to see your hero going against Rodman , Mahorn and cheap shot artist Laimbeer. He'd likely become a pure perimeter player if he had that sort of opposition at the basket. Instead he has 6'6 'centers' to contend with and an occasional a/c malfunction which ultimately places him in the ICU unit :lol :lol

[lefty]

Hahaha yeah well I'd love to see your hero going against Rodman , Mahorn and cheap shot artist Laimbeer. He'd likely become a pure perimeter player if he had that sort of opposition at the basket. Instead he has 6'6 'centers' to contend with and an occasional a/c malfunction which ultimately places him in the ICU unit :lol :lol

He would kill those plumbers, son

[lefty]

the complete exaggeration by these guys is always amusing :lmao

2-3 legitimately hard fouls through an entire playoff series suddenly = obliterated every time he went to the basket

Sports, skills, nutrition, training, technology available to coaches and players, analytics etc get better, evolve.

People are playing NBA 2K20 , but these guys are still playing NBA Live 95 :lol

[Neo.]

Hahaha yeah well I'd love to see your hero going against Rodman , Mahorn and cheap shot artist Laimbeer. He'd likely become a pure perimeter player if he had that sort of opposition at the basket. Instead he has 6'6 'centers' to contend with and an occasional a/c malfunction which ultimately places him in the ICU unit :lol :lol

another exaggeration

"oh lebron only plays against 6'6 centers :cry :cry"

when literally the only team that really consistently presented that was the warriors who were an obvious exception of a team after they got KD. before KD, they consistently put big men on the floor. Heck even after getting KD, they usually had a big man. Generally the "death lineup" where Draymond was at center with no other big man was only played for small spurts here and there

[Spurtacular]

I can't watch all this sh**

But interesting to skip through it some.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nC9z57MuaI

[Spurtacular]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZm-MRQXKI0

[Dirks_Finale]

NBA players who played against MJ and Lebron dropping them truthbombs!!

Vince at 2:25 saying what I have said...MJ got knocked the hell out, every game!!

Barnes thinks Lebron can surpass....KOBE, if he wins with the Lakers :lol

Stephen Jackson -- win 1 title in LA and you pass Kobe :lol Win two out there and you put yourself in the GOAT conversation. That's a fair assessment, imo.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ojgD91JaxI

[ambchang]

another exaggeration

"oh lebron only plays against 6'6 centers :cry :cry"

when literally the only team that really consistently presented that was the warriors who were an obvious exception of a team after they got KD. before KD, they consistently put big men on the floor. Heck even after getting KD, they usually had a big man. Generally the "death lineup" where Draymond was at center with no other big man was only played for small spurts here and there

A) as if those plumbers and accountants comments weren’t exaggerstions
B) the rockets

[lefty]

NBA players who played against MJ and Lebron dropping them truthbombs!!

Vince at 2:25 saying what I have said...MJ got knocked the hell out, every game!!

Barnes thinks Lebron can surpass....KOBE, if he wins with the Lakers :lol

Stephen Jackson -- win 1 title in LA and you pass Kobe :lol Win two out there and you put yourself in the GOAT conversation. That's a fair assessment, imo.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ojgD91JaxI

Magic a few years ago : the only played I feared was Larry Bird

Worthy : I would ratehr guard Jordan than Bird

Isiah : if you lock me, Magic, Jordan and Larry, the only one ho comes out alive of that room is Bird

Pat RIley : if I need a hot to win a game I go with Mike, if I need a shot to save my life I go with Larry


See? we can do this all day

[Dirks_Finale]

Magic a few years ago : the only played I feared was Larry Bird

Worthy : I would ratehr guard Jordan than Bird

Isiah : if you lock me, Magic, Jordan and Larry, the only one ho comes out alive of that room is Bird

Pat RIley : if I need a hot to win a game I go with Mike, if I need a shot to save my life I go with Larry


See? we can do this all day

Did any of those folks guard both Lebron and MJ? Your response is irrelevant.

[lefty]

Did any of those folks guard both Lebron and MJ? Your response is irrelevant.
Those folks playd in the "better era" so by your logic their opinion should be more relavant

Pick a narrative and stick with it and stop moving goal posts

[Dirks_Finale]

A) as if those plumbers and accountants comments weren’t exaggerstions
B) the rockets

Yup total exaggeration. As if we dont have undrafted players in this era. Fred van Vleet 17ppg and 7 apg. Drug addict Birdman was a prominent rim protector in the past decade. Jj Barea owned the Heat in 2011. All those guys were undrafted and there are many more we could cite and make plumber jokes about.

[Dirks_Finale]

Those folks playd in the "better era" so by your logic their opinion should be more relavant

Pick a narrative and stick with it and stop moving goal posts

Start by actually reading the post you quoted and try addressing the point at hand. And stop with the strawman.

[lefty]

Start by actually reading the post you quoted and try addressing the point at hand. And stop with the strawman.
There is no point to address if you keep moving the goal posts

[lefty]

Yup total exaggeration. As if we dont have undrafted players in this era. Fred van Vleet 17ppg and 7 apg. Drug addict Birdman was a prominent rim protector in the past decade. Jj Barea owned the Heat in 2011. All those guys were undrafted and there are many more we could cite and make plumber jokes about.
Yes those guys are undrafted
But the media doesn't want us to believe they are some kind of stars, like John Starks who was hyped up by the media in the 90s as one of Jordan's top opponents at the SG position

[Dirks_Finale]

There is no point to address if you keep moving the goal posts

I think MJ is the GOAT. You think Lebron is.

People who have actually guarded both have a more worthy opinion on the subject than random people on the internet with bad plumber jokes :lol

[Neo.]

A) as if those plumbers and accountants comments weren’t exaggerations

i never once said anything about plumbers and accountants

and they are clearly in jest to the people who legitimately believe that players lives were in danger and that charles barkley called his family out of fear of death when playing the pistons


B) the rockets

lebron didnt ever face the rockets in the playoffs, so i dont get how thats even a part of the discussion

not only that, until halfway through this year they always had bigs like capella, dwight, and nene who were major parts of their rotation

[Dirks_Finale]

Yes those guys are undrafted
But the media doesn't want us to believe they are some kind of stars, like John Starks who was hyped up by the media in the 90s as one of Jordan's top opponents at the SG position

I don't recall him being hyped as a star, just a tenacious defender who developed a decent game offensively

And his 4.2 defensive WS in 93 is higher than Lebron's for the past 7 years.

[ambchang]

i never once said anything about plumbers and accountants

and they are clearly in jest to the people who legitimately believe that players lives were in danger and that charles barkley called his family out of fear of death when playing the pistons



lebron didnt ever face the rockets in the playoffs, so i dont get how thats even a part of the discussion

not only that, until halfway through this year they always had bigs like capella, dwight, and nene who were major parts of their rotation

And yet you had no issues with the comments Point is both sides exaggerate the hell out of it.

And since when are we only talking about teams Lebron faced?

[lefty]

I don't recall him being hyped as a star, just a tenacious defender who developed a decent game offensively

And his 4.2 defensive WS in 93 is higher than Lebron's for the past 7 years.
HE was hyped up as great defender to make it look like Jordan overcame tuff D

lol Stark and Majerle got lit up by Tired Old Shit Bags like Ricky Pierce and Dumars :lmao

[Dirks_Finale]

lefty: Today's players are so much more athletic and have much more muscular definition.

Also, today's MVP candidates below :lol



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q92qK8Yy2SU

https://www.ccn.com/this-is-why-nikola-jokics-dreadful-start-shouldnt-make-the-nuggets-panic/

[Neo.]

And yet you had no issues with the comments Point is both sides exaggerate the hell out of it.

the difference is what lefty was saying was retaliatory and clearly in blatant jest


And since when are we only talking about teams Lebron faced?

lebron was the person being questioned in this conversation

if you had bothered to actually read, you would have seen that very clearly. but you seem more interested in arguing for the sake of arguing, per the norm with you.

[ambchang]

the difference is what lefty was saying was retaliatory and clearly in blatant jest



lebron was the person being questioned in this conversation

if you had bothered to actually read, you would have seen that very clearly. but you seem more interested in arguing for the sake of arguing, per the norm with you.

:lol retaliatory. Generational wars have been going on forever in basketball. M
The subject was this era vs the past with a side of Lebron vs Jordan. So it’s teams Lebron faced. Not teams Lebron faced in the playoffs alone.

[Neo.]

:lol retaliatory. Generational wars have been going on forever in basketball.

still has nothing to do with what was going on in this specific conversation


The subject was this era vs the past with a side of Lebron vs Jordan. So it’s teams Lebron faced. Not teams Lebron faced in the playoffs alone.

:rolleyes wow youre reaching, and highly obsessed i might add

but regardless, aside from 1 game this year against the rockets after trading away clint capela, i dont think lebron has been facing too many teams who mainly employs a 6'6 center. but knowing you, you're going to go the extra technical route due to your routine butthurtedness, and list every team that has a 6'6 center on the roster, as proof of the teams lebron has faced with a 6'6 center, even if its guys who barely plays 5 mins a game :lmao

[DeadlyDynasty]

lefty: Today's players are so much more athletic and have much more muscular definition.

Also, today's MVP candidates below :lol



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q92qK8Yy2SU

https://www.ccn.com/this-is-why-nikola-jokics-dreadful-start-shouldnt-make-the-nuggets-panic/
?

That was a pretty impressive highlight reel tbh

[Dirks_Finale]

?

That was a pretty impressive highlight reel tbh

Joker is a baller. One who lacks much muscle definition. They existed back in the day and they still exist now which proves my point.

[lefty]

lefty: Today's players are so much more athletic and have much more muscular definition.

Also, today's MVP candidates below :lol



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q92qK8Yy2SU

https://www.ccn.com/this-is-why-nikola-jokics-dreadful-start-shouldnt-make-the-nuggets-panic/

Interesting take

Yeah very interesting


The difference is that Jokic is actually skilled unlike Laimbeer

That makes Laimbeer an unskilled, unathletic white dude with zero muscle definition :lol

Keep digging

[Dirks_Finale]

But wait Laimbeer hits 3's which is all that matters today :lol


Interesting take

Yeah very interesting


The difference is that Jokic is actually skilled unlike Laimbeer

That makes Laimbeer an unskilled, unathletic white dude with zero muscle definition :lol

Keep digging

[lefty]

But wait Laimbeer hits 3's which is all that matters today :lol
Laimber was an occasional spot up 3
Jokic is a fantastic passer, can actually handle, post up and shoot the rock tbh

[Dirks_Finale]

He was an 'occasional' spot up 3 shooter because that's what the game called for at that time.

In today's NBA, the 2-point shot is only as valuable as the 3 if it's shot at a 60% clip. Everyone outside Ben Simmons is encouraged to bomb away now.

And this is straying away from my point that muscle definition is great but is not end all, be all.



Laimber was an occasional spot up 3
Jokic is a fantastic passer, can actually handle, post up and shoot the rock tbh

[lefty]

He was an 'occasional' spot up 3 shooter because that's what the game called for at that time.

In today's NBA, the 2-point shot is only as valuable as the 3 if it's shot at a 60% clip. Everyone outside Ben Simmons is encouraged to bomb away now.

And this is straying away from my point that muscle definition is great but is not end all, be all.
Still Jokic is much more skilled

[Dirks_Finale]

Sure, and Larry Bird was by no means a poster child for Men's fitness magazine and he was more skilled than both of them.


Still Jokic is much more skilled

[lefty]

Sure, and Larry Bird was by no means a poster child for Men's fitness magazine and he was more skilled than both of them.
Now Larry Bird is one of the very old school guys I could see thrive in today's league : passing, shooting, basketball IQ; he fits (but yeah he would have to give up drinking beer on game day and doing back breaking home chores lol)

Jokic's passing reminds a lot of Bird's passing, it's really a carbon copy (athough Jokic was a fan of Magic growing up)

[Dirks_Finale]

Bird was so slow and nonathletic that it amazed the hell out of me everytime I watched him, how he could even compete out there :lol. He could barely jump over a Sunday morning newspaper.

I think one of the reasons he was so effective was that high basketball IQ and the fact that he could trash talk and mentally screw with you, winning a battle before any shots were taken.. Who do we have in today's game that compares? This current era does not even have a KG who only delivered a fraction of the time :lol


Now Larry Bird is one of the very old school guys I could see thrive in today's league : passing, shooting, basketball IQ; he fits (but yeah he would have to give up drinking beer on game day and doing back breaking home chores lol)

Jokic's passing reminds a lot of Bird's passing, it's really a carbon copy (athough Jokic was a fan of Magic growing up)

[SpursforSix]

I haven't watched it yet but I'm thinking about watching the Magic Johnson All Star Game where we cured AIDS upon him hitting that forty foot set shot. If there's any proof you need that we're living in a simulation, that's it.

[Dirks_Finale]

I haven't watched it yet but I'm thinking about watching the Magic Johnson All Star Game where we cured AIDS upon him hitting that forty foot set shot. If there's any proof you need that we're living in a simulation, that's it.

One of the few all star games that kept my attention from start to finish.

[lefty]

Bird was so slow and nonathletic that it amazed the hell out of me everytime I watched him, how he could even compete out there :lol. He could barely jump over a Sunday morning newspaper.

I think one of the reasons he was so effective was that high basketball IQ and the fact that he could trash talk and mentally screw with you, winning a battle before any shots were taken.. Who do we have in today's game that compares? This current era does not even have a KG who only delivered a fraction of the time :lol

Agreed, Bird would take a few lives if he played today, he is IMO the greatest trash talker in the history of the NBA, by far

KG sucks in that area, he jaws at people with no substance


I haven't watched it yet but I'm thinking about watching the Magic Johnson All Star Game where we cured AIDS upon him hitting that forty foot set shot. If there's any proof you need that we're living in a simulation, that's it.

:lol tbh

[SpursforSix]

One of the few all star games that kept my attention from start to finish.

Same. And it's the only one that I really remember. It was pretty surreal that he stepped back and put that over Thomas. And it's not like he kept shooting until he made one.
Although I just went back to check the shot. It was over Thomas but it was just behind the line. Not a 40' like I had in my mind.

[lefty]

Magic and Robinson had such great chemistry (asg and dream team) it would have been fun if they were teammates during their careers

[ambchang]

still has nothing to do with what was going on in this specific conversation



:rolleyes wow youre reaching, and highly obsessed i might add

but regardless, aside from 1 game this year against the rockets after trading away clint capela, i dont think lebron has been facing too many teams who mainly employs a 6'6 center. but knowing you, you're going to go the extra technical route due to your routine butthurtedness, and list every team that has a 6'6 center on the roster, as proof of the teams lebron has faced with a 6'6 center, even if its guys who barely plays 5 mins a game :lmao

Didn’t I say a lot? I said there is another team. You said only the warriors but the rockets, which is a contender, employs a small ball lineup.

It’s pathetic your default mode when being pointed out to be wrong is to lash out and jump to personal attacks. Says a lot about your train of thought.

[ambchang]

Magic and Robinson had such great chemistry (asg and dream team) it would have been fun if they were teammates during their careers

But Robinson had the phenomenal Avery Johnson instead and still couldn’t deliver multiple titles to San Antonio. Proving he’s a choker.

Imagine if Hakeem had Avery Johnson as his PG. he would’ve won six titles in a row. Oh wait, he did, twice, and Avery was cut, both times.

[Dirks_Finale]

Same. And it's the only one that I really remember. It was pretty surreal that he stepped back and put that over Thomas. And it's not like he kept shooting until he made one.
Although I just went back to check the shot. It was over Thomas but it was just behind the line. Not a 40' like I had in my mind.

I think it just seemed very impressive because of the circumstances with hiv being such a big deal. Realistically, he had like 8 inches on Thomas and he was never much of a shooter to begin with. Everyone wanted him to succeed so it did have the 40 foot in distance feel to it.

[lefty]

And Isiah was the one who made sure players were comfortable playig with Magic


Despite not playing a single game for the Lakers, the fans still voted Magic Johnson into the 1992 NBA All-Star Game, longing for one more game from one of the most beloved figures in league history. The NBA allowed this to happen but not everyone was thrilled with the idea of playing alongside someone with HIV. The most notable player to speak out against Johnson suiting up was his Western Conference teammate, Utah Jazz star forward Karl Malone.


But people wanted this to happen and Magic’s longtime friend, Isiah Thomas, made sure that it did. Thomas held a meeting with the players and the result was that Magic Johnson would indeed be on the floor in Orlando. In a wonderful gesture, Tim Hardaway gave up his starting spot on the West squad so that Johnson could be on the floor for the opening tip-off.




The story that unfolded at the 1992 NBA All-Star Game was like a fairytale. During pregame introductions, the crowd gave Magic a standing ovation that just seemed to go on and on and on. But the other players still didn’t quite know how to react. Again, Isiah Thomas stepped in and eased the tension, running over and embracing his friend. And then, forgive the pun that’s coming, the real magic began.

[Dirks_Finale]

For any youngsters wondering who the hell Bill Laimbeer is :lol He was the most hated player of his era....by far. I must admit, I loved seeing Parish knock his azz out :lol

Laimbeer around 5:35: When we were playing against Jordan, everytime Jordan came into the lane, three people went over there and knocked him on his ass."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7mbW7vMJ1k

[Dirks_Finale]

If I remember correctly, Karl Malone was the biggest dbag alive at the time, saying he didnt want to be on the court with magic.


And Isiah was the one who made sure players were comfortable playig with Magic

[lefty]

If I remember correctly, Karl Malone was the biggest dbag alive at the time, saying he didnt want to be on the court with magic.

Dream Teamer Karl Malone was a major dirtbag tbh

[lefty]

For any youngsters wondering who the hell Bill Laimbeer is :lol He was the most hated player of his era....by far. I must admit, I loved seeing Parish knock his azz out :lol

Laimbeer around 5:35: When we were playing against Jordan, everytime Jordan came into the lane, three people went over there and knocked him on his ass."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7mbW7vMJ1k

Exaggerated
Watch actual full games

Laimbeer also said Lebron would have dominated in that era

[Dirks_Finale]

I did watch actual games.

He used hyperbole -- but it happened, a LOT. The Jordan rules were a thing.


Exaggerated
Watch actual full games

Laimbeer also said Lebron would have dominated in that era

[Neo.]

Didn’t I say a lot? I said there is another team. You said only the warriors but the rockets, which is a contender, employs a small ball lineup.

It’s pathetic your default mode when being pointed out to be wrong is to lash out and jump to personal attacks. Says a lot about your train of thought.

No, I was talking about teams LeBron has had to contend with through his career.

In your mind, playing one game against a rockets team that fully adopted the extra-small-ball strategy means LeBron has had to contended against these types throughout his career? Hm ok. I assume you we'll get excessively technical with specific wording once again, and completely miss the point at hand, but hey if it makes you feel more complete in life, then have at it. :toast

I'm fine with admitting when I'm wrong. But in this case, I wasn't bc you clearly didn't understand what was even being talked about. You're the one who literally lies and makes up stats and when it's proven wrong, you can't accept it and want to deflect.

I honestly don't know why I bother to respond to you. I'm done with this again

[lefty]

I did watch actual games.

He used hyperbole -- but it happened, a LOT. The Jordan rules were a thing.

Not really a lot tbh

[140]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzmeNRJkqmQ

[lefty]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzmeNRJkqmQ

Hey fuck you tbh

[Dirks_Finale]

Carlisle with hair! :lol

I loved it when the spurs put some slow bum on Dirk. Knew it was going to be a fun night.

In 2014 they checked him straight up with Splitter and Dirk didn't light him up. That's when I knew Dirk was essentially done as a primetime player.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzmeNRJkqmQ

[lefty]

Carlisle with hair! :lol

I loved it when the spurs put some slow bum on Dirk. Knew it was going to be a fun night.

In 2014 they checked him straight up with Splitter and Dirk didn't light him up. That's when I knew Dirk was essentially done as a primetime player.
Ugh Dirl was such a matchup nightmare

But I can't hate himl dude is unhatable

[Dirks_Finale]

Well Cuban acted like a Dbag so you have someone to hate on with us. With the Spurs, there was literally nobody in the entire organization to hate on once Bowen retired. Like everyone was a true pro and a nice guy. Shit, how am I supposed to hate on that? :lol


Ugh Dirl was such a matchup nightmare

But I can't hate himl dude is unhatable

[lefty]

Well Cuban acted like a Dbag so you have someone to hate on with us. With the Spurs, there was literally nobody in the entire organization to hate on once Bowen retired. Like everyone was a true pro and a nice guy. Shit, how am I supposed to hate on that? :lol
Lol

I didn’t mind Cuban’s trolling tbh, I’m not one of those ugly Fat Antonians

[ambchang]

No, I was talking about teams LeBron has had to contend with through his career.

In your mind, playing one game against a rockets team that fully adopted the extra-small-ball strategy means LeBron has had to contended against these types throughout his career? Hm ok. I assume you we'll get excessively technical with specific wording once again, and completely miss the point at hand, but hey if it makes you feel more complete in life, then have at it. :toast

I'm fine with admitting when I'm wrong. But in this case, I wasn't bc you clearly didn't understand what was even being talked about. You're the one who literally lies and makes up stats and when it's proven wrong, you can't accept it and want to deflect.

I honestly don't know why I bother to respond to you. I'm done with this again

That’s not what I said. Stop acting like you have sand stuck in your bathing trunks. You said only one team used that strategy and I pointed out there’s the rockets. I have nothin against Lebron and think he’s got a legit claim to GOAT even though I won’t put him there personally, you don’t have to act like someone shagged your ex everytime someone didn’t grovel at the feet of Lebron. Sheesh.

[Neo.]

That’s not what I said. Stop acting like you have sand stuck in your bathing trunks. You said only one team used that strategy and I pointed out there’s the rockets. I have nothin against Lebron and think he’s got a legit claim to GOAT even though I won’t put him there personally, you don’t have to act like someone shagged your ex everytime someone didn’t grovel at the feet of Lebron. Sheesh.

i actually dont consider lebron the goat

i dont have any issue with people not elevating lebron

i simply pointed out the ridiculousness of people such as dirks_finale talking about how jordan faced loads of big centers while lebron faced a bunch of measly 6'6 centers, which is clearly just not true. he consistently played against teams with legit big men, even several teams that frequently employed "twin-tower" lineups with two legit bigs, such as the spurs, pistons, celtics, pacers, hawks, and raptors. about the only notable team he had to deal with was the warriors, who still generally started a 7-footer at center (who made major contributions) whether it was bogut or mcgee.

me and him have come to simply agree to disagree as to our how great we each feel lebron is. but to literally lie to make a claim is simply ridiculous. it has nothing to do with wanting people to grovel at lebrons feet. but i guess it could be worse, he could have claimed ray allen had a scoring increase in 00-01, when he actually had a decrease, a stat that any retard can pull up in about 6 seconds in order to avoid blatantly lying to try to make a point.

[Dirks_Finale]

Just so you understand my POV, I realize only a few teams regularly start 6'6 guys at the 5. What I am saying is this is a small ball era and depending on matchups, even teams who start taller guys often times find themselves going small out of necessity during games. And Lebron and others regularly take advantage of the lack of legit rim protection. A luxury MJ never had.


i actually dont consider lebron the goat

i dont have any issue with people not elevating lebron

i simply pointed out the ridiculousness of people such as dirks_finale talking about how jordan faced loads of big centers while lebron faced a bunch of measly 6'6 centers, which is clearly just not true. he consistently played against teams with legit big men, even several teams that frequently employed "twin-tower" lineups with two legit bigs, such as the spurs, pistons, celtics, pacers, hawks, and raptors. about the only notable team he had to deal with was the warriors, who still generally started a 7-footer at center (who made major contributions) whether it was bogut or mcgee.

me and him have come to simply agree to disagree as to our how great we each feel lebron is. but to literally lie to make a claim is simply ridiculous. it has nothing to do with wanting people to grovel at lebrons feet. but i guess it could be worse, he could have claimed ray allen had a scoring increase in 00-01, when he actually had a decrease, a stat that any retard can pull up in about 6 seconds in order to avoid blatantly lying to try to make a point.

[lefty]

Just so you understand my POV, I realize only a few teams regularly start 6'6 guys at the 5. What I am saying is this is a small ball era and depending on matchups, even teams who start taller guys often times find themselves going small out of necessity during games. And Lebron and others regularly take advantage of the lack of legit rim protection. A luxury MJ never had.

MJ had Stern and the refs, that’s enough luxury tbh

[Neo.]

Just so you understand my POV, I realize only a few teams regularly start 6'6 guys at the 5. What I am saying is this is a small ball era and depending on matchups, even teams who start taller guys often times find themselves going small out of necessity during games. And Lebron and others regularly take advantage of the lack of legit rim protection. A luxury MJ never had.

again, can go both ways. you could also say MJ had the luxury of not having to deal with the type of zone and shading schemes that defenses are allowed to do today that were previously illegal. and those defenses are far more potent when you have 3-4 athletic, long wing players out there who can cut off passing/driving lanes, make quick doubles, yet recover quick enough to get out on the perimeter and not be a defensive mismatch against smaller guards.

both eras had their pros and cons. MJ did the best he could in his. Lebron is doing the best he can in his. the only real difference is the situations the two players were in - when Mike was dominating, he had unquestionably the best team in the NBA, whereas when Lebron's been dominating, his teams have frequently been in the underdog role.

[Dirks_Finale]

MJ had Stern and the refs, that’s enough luxury tbh

You think Lebron doesn't get love from the zebras? :lol

[Dirks_Finale]

again, can go both ways. you could also say MJ had the luxury of not having to deal with the type of zone and shading schemes that defenses are allowed to do today that were previously illegal. and those defenses are far more potent when you have 3-4 athletic, long wing players out there who can cut off passing/driving lanes, make quick doubles, yet recover quick enough to get out on the perimeter and not be a defensive mismatch against smaller guards.

both eras had their pros and cons. MJ did the best he could in his. Lebron is doing the best he can in his. the only real difference is the situations the two players were in - when Mike was dominating, he had unquestionably the best team in the NBA, whereas when Lebron's been dominating, his teams have frequently been in the underdog role.

I'll concede that the NBA, overall, is somewhat more athletic. Sports science and the evolution of the 21st century human body attest to that. And defensive schemes are better overall. But in regards to the zone, it was played in Jordan's era. I'm going to post a link on this that is pretty much irrefutable.

http://nobodytouchesjordan.blogspot.com/2014/09/section-4-jordan-never-faced-zone-myth.html?m=1

One of the most telling points the author makes is 6'2 Tony Parker led the NBA in PIP in a zone defense era. Pretty much shattering the notion that if MJ played when zone D was legal it would hinder his ability to score. Again, it was played in the bulls era it just wasnt supposed to be and I can recall coaches in the 90s whining and crying about teams zoning and getting away with it.

[lefty]

Parker > Jordan tbh

[Neo.]

I'll concede that the NBA, overall, is somewhat more athletic. Sports science and the evolution of the 21st century human body attest to that. And defensive schemes are better overall. But in regards to the zone, it was played in Jordan's era. I'm going to post a link on this that is pretty much irrefutable.

http://nobodytouchesjordan.blogspot.com/2014/09/section-4-jordan-never-faced-zone-myth.html?m=1

One of the most telling points the author makes is 6'2 Tony Parker led the NBA in PIP in a zone defense era. Pretty much shattering the notion that if MJ played when zone D was legal it would hinder his ability to score. Again, it was played in the bulls era it just wasnt supposed to be and I can recall coaches in the 90s whining and crying about teams zoning and getting away with it.

yes an article written by a blogger who named his blog "nobody touches jordan" is going to be completely objective :lmao

additionally, theres a big difference between zones and traps. that guy mostly shows examples of traps and doubles, which were legal and much different than a zone.

regardless, no one said zone was never played whatsoever, i fully believe that there were times that teams got away with it. but it was outlawed, therefore less prevalent and less a part of team strategy. just the same way players still very clearly and blatantly handcheck today (although also being less prevalent), despite it being outlawed.

as for the tony parker point, he did that well before most teams really started to make use of different zone concepts. it was still a relatively new thing for most teams. it was not used as much as it has been in recent years. additionally, mike and tp are not the same type of player by any means. mikes bread and butter was in the midrange area, while TP was almost entirely focused on getting layups and floaters, and had an offensive system designed to help him do that.

i dont know how many more times i have to say this, but mike and bron had different obstacles in different eras. no need to compare the two eras, because we can continue to raise counterpoints back and forth all day long and get absolutely nowhere. fact is, they are two of the greatest players of all time. but the real differences were 1) they are completely different types of players, neither style being superior to the other necessarily, and 2) mike was drafted into a much better situation than lebron was, and it clearly played out more in mikes favor. situations can make all the difference in the world. a better situation for guys like tmac, barkley, and ewing, and they probably don't retire ringless, while a different situation for guys like timmy manu and parker probably result in far less championships than they have. if shaq stays in orlando, he might never have rang.

[lefty]

:lol Also, the list of defenders in section 3 is comical

[Dirks_Finale]

You are trolling again, lefty. Stop that!! :lol


Parker > Jordan tbh

[Dirks_Finale]

but mike and bron had different obstacles in different eras. no need to compare the two eras, because we can continue to raise counterpoints back and forth all day long and get absolutely nowhere. fact is, they are two of the greatest players of all time. but the real differences were 1) they are completely different types of players, neither style being superior to the other necessarily, and 2) mike was drafted into a much better situation than lebron was, and it clearly played out more in mikes favor. situations can make all the difference in the world. a better situation for guys like tmac, barkley, and ewing, and they probably don't retire ringless, while a different situation for guys like timmy manu and parker probably result in far less championships than they have. if shaq stays in orlando, he might never have rang.

MJ was slashing quite a bit before the first retirement. Upon his return he was mainly fade-away on the baseline, which Kobe did with impunity for 2 decades after him, facing every defense known to man.

Just for the record that Bulls team was abysmal when MJ got there. I have to put this out there because folks like lefty and try and play the Jordan got beat up early on, card. Well, yeah he played with 130lb crack heads until Pippen and Grant developed in 1990. Of course he did, as anyone would have.

[ambchang]

i actually dont consider lebron the goat

i dont have any issue with people not elevating lebron

i simply pointed out the ridiculousness of people such as dirks_finale talking about how jordan faced loads of big centers while lebron faced a bunch of measly 6'6 centers, which is clearly just not true. he consistently played against teams with legit big men, even several teams that frequently employed "twin-tower" lineups with two legit bigs, such as the spurs, pistons, celtics, pacers, hawks, and raptors. about the only notable team he had to deal with was the warriors, who still generally started a 7-footer at center (who made major contributions) whether it was bogut or mcgee.

me and him have come to simply agree to disagree as to our how great we each feel lebron is. but to literally lie to make a claim is simply ridiculous. it has nothing to do with wanting people to grovel at lebrons feet. but i guess it could be worse, he could have claimed ray allen had a scoring increase in 00-01, when he actually had a decrease, a stat that any retard can pull up in about 6 seconds in order to avoid blatantly lying to try to make a point.

I thought I admitted to reading the year wrong but hey, some people just want to act like a spurned lover all the time.

[Neo.]

Just for the record that Bulls team was abysmal when MJ got there. I have to put this out there because folks like lefty and try and play the Jordan got beat up early on, card. Well, yeah he played with 130lb crack heads until Pippen and Grant developed in 1990. Of course he did, as anyone would have.

I don't hold his first few seasons against him, no one should. However, MJ is also on record for saying that his rookie year team was the most talented team he ever played with, even more than the championship teams. Some of those players being dealt around is what led to them building the first three-peat squad. It's not just about the talent that he or Bron had, its the competency of the front office. The Bulls had a very competent front office that built a nice squad. The Cavs front office was well known for their incompetency, made evident when the best pickup they could make was Mo Williams, while teams like the Miami, Boston, Detroit were either making big moves to get star talent, or retooling to get the right pieces for championship runs.

[Dirks_Finale]

Woolridge could play. Not so much with the rest of them . Jordan was maybe a little too tipsy when he made that statement :lol


I don't hold his first few seasons against him, no one should. However, MJ is also on record for saying that his rookie year team was the most talented team he ever played with, even more than the championship teams. Some of those players being dealt around is what led to them building the first three-peat squad. It's not just about the talent that he or Bron had, its the competency of the front office. The Bulls had a very competent front office that built a nice squad. The Cavs front office was well known for their incompetency, made evident when the best pickup they could make was Mo Williams, while teams like the Miami, Boston, Detroit were either making big moves to get star talent, or retooling to get the right pieces for championship runs.

[Neo.]

:cryI thought I admitted to rea:cryding the year :crywrong but hey, so:cryme people just want to ac:cryt like a spurned lover all the time.:cry:cry:cry

[Dirks_Finale]

Spurs fan's favorite. Jason Eugene Terry

Punching them in the nuts for 8 years with the Mavs. :lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahPvQqGVRxg

[IronMexican]

And this should've been the 08 finalists.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXNaW6_Di-s

Absolute choke in game 1 and game 4 goes to OT if the correct call is made.


Only choke that came clase in that era was the one the Lakers did in game 4:lol

[lefty]

Spurs fan's favorite. Jason Eugene Terry

Punching them in the nuts for 8 years with the Mavs. :lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahPvQqGVRxg
1 ring phagget

:lol I remember a bitter Jason Terry after the 2007 season in some ESPN talk show :
:cry “If we didn’t lose to GS the Spurs wouldn’t have won the title “
:lol well you couldn’t even beat the damn Warriors

[Dirks_Finale]

That was Cuban's mistake. Built the team to beat the Spurs and not necessarily to win a title.

Terry's mouth always got us in trouble. I can recall one game against the Suns. We are up maybe 5-10 points at the half. Terry does a halftime interview and says this team(suns) does not play any defense. Not only do the Suns go on to curb stomp the Mavs in the 2nd half, but it completely turned their season around and I think they ended up going to the WCF and we lost in the 1st RD again. Thanks, Jet :lol


1 ring phagget

:lol I remember a bitter Jason Terry after the 2007 season in some ESPN talk show :
:cry “If we didn’t lose to GS the Spurs wouldn’t have won the title “
:lol well you couldn’t even beat the damn Warriors

[lefty]

That was Cuban's mistake. Built the team to beat the Spurs and not necessarily to win a title.

Terry's mouth always got us in trouble. I can recall one game against the Suns. We are up maybe 5-10 points at the half. Terry does a halftime interview and says this team(suns) does not play any defense. Not only do the Suns go on to curb stomp the Mavs in the 2nd half, but it completely turned their season around and I think they ended up going to the WCF and we lost in the 1st RD again. Thanks, Jet :lol
:lol that and the Lebron stare down dunk

[Spurtacular]

90's Celtics were such a train wreck.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2QB8uRfLLw

[Dirks_Finale]

And he walked right into it.


:lol that and the Lebron stare down dunk

[ambchang]

My bad. More like jilted teenage lover.

[Neo.]

My bad. M:cryore like jilted :cryteenage lover:cry :cry:cry.

[ambchang]

i Held my breath until daddy got me the Beamer. Doctor said it caused brain damage.

[Neo.]

:cry

[140]

:lol that and the Lebron stare down dunk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHtuQIJ1F1U

[lefty]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHtuQIJ1F1U

MJ got his ass handed to him by inferior players too but the NBA doesn’t want anyone to see that :lol

[Dirks_Finale]

MJ got his ass handed to him by inferior players too but the NBA doesn’t want anyone to see that :lol

Name 1 playoff series that Jordan got outscored by a bench player for the entire series. We will wait...

[lefty]

Name 1 playoff series that Jordan got outscored by a bench player for the entire series. We will wait...

Terry was a 6th man but don’t tell me Stevenson was better offensively than Terry :lol
JET was on the bench otherwise that 2nd unit would have been lacking

Jordan was outscored by a pasty flabby Pastor (I think his name was Danny Change or something like that) :lol in an elimination game :lol
Terry was wayyyyu better than Danny Change :lol
Change was also a beisbol player, and we all know beisbol is not a sport :lol

Also got outscored several times by a 6.1 midget PG who didn’t even make the Dream Team in the playoffs :lol
Matbe that’s why Jordan didn’t let him go to Barcelona, he got so embarrassed:lol

[140]

Grasping at straws :lol

[phxspurfan]

definitely not Larry Bird highlights

[Dirks_Finale]

Terry was a 6th man but don’t tell me Stevenson was better offensively than Terry :lol
JET was on the bench otherwise that 2nd unit would have been lacking


So Terry, 0 times an all star, 0 times all-NBA is basically at the same level as Lebron offensively, then? Got it :lol Today's NBA :lol I would also remind you that Manu was a bench player who actually made all star/all nba teams. There is a difference there in quality. :lol

And you can point to single games(BTW, you could do that with anyone in the history of the game), but you cant show me where killer Jordan was getting outscored by inferior players for the duration of a playoff series...much less the damn NBA Finals :lol

And Zeke Thomas would average 30 and 15 in today's sawft, skinny jeans, non contact, please don't offend me, NBA.

[lefty]

So Terry, 0 times an all star, 0 times all-NBA is basically at the same level as Lebron offensively, then? Got it :lol Today's NBA :lol I would also remind you that Manu was a bench player who actually made all star/all nba teams. There is a difference there in quality. :lol

And you can point to single games(BTW, you could do that with anyone in the history of the game), but you cant show me where killer Jordan was getting outscored by inferior players for the duration of a playoff series...much less the damn NBA Finals :lol

And Zeke Thomas would average 30 and 15 in today's sawft, skinny jeans, non contact, please don't offend me, NBA.

Where did I say he was on the same level as Lebron ? :lol

Zeke was good for his era but let’s face it he would be Terry Rozier at best if he played today :lol

[Neo.]

So Terry, 0 times an all star, 0 times all-NBA is basically at the same level as Lebron offensively, then? Got it :lol Today's NBA :lol I would also remind you that Manu was a bench player who actually made all star/all nba teams. There is a difference there in quality. :lol

And you can point to single games(BTW, you could do that with anyone in the history of the game), but you cant show me where killer Jordan was getting outscored by inferior players for the duration of a playoff series...much less the damn NBA Finals :lol

And Zeke Thomas would average 30 and 15 in today's sawft, skinny jeans, non contact, please don't offend me, NBA.

it was not a shining moment for lebron, but the situations between mike and lebron throughout their entire careers (and especially a year like that) are not remotely similar. either take everything into consideration, or quit comparing the two. you continue to just cherry pick stuff on lebron.

[Dirks_Finale]

It was more than a "moment" it was a whole series. :lol

And it sounds like you are cherry picking which posts of mine you actually read. I have given Lebron props for both 2016 and for 2007. The fact of the matter is Jordan has no 2011 type series to point at. Out of shape baseball Jordan in 95 is all you and lefty have to point to, and it's weak in comparison, tbh.


it was not a shining moment for lebron, but the situations between mike and lebron throughout their entire careers (and especially a year like that) are not remotely similar. either take everything into consideration, or quit comparing the two. you continue to just cherry pick stuff on lebron.

[Dirks_Finale]

You are trolling again :lol


Where did I say he was on the same level as Lebron ? :lol

Zeke was good for his era but let’s face it he would be Terry Rozier at best if he played today :lol

[Neo.]

It was more than a "moment" it was a whole series. :lol

And it sounds like you are cherry picking which posts of mine you actually read. I have given Lebron props for both 2016 and for 2007. The fact of the matter is Jordan has no 2011 type series to point at. Out of shape baseball Jordan in 95 is all you and lefty have to point to, and it's weak in comparison, tbh.

so lebron was bad for all 6 games? he had several very good games in the series too, don't get it twisted. his scoring numbers werent particularly high, but that was largely because wade was able to score at will, and dallas defense was allowing that while being heavily focused on getting the ball out of lebrons hands quickly. even rick said their gameplan was to use a matchup zone to trap lebron early in possessions and force other players to beat them. as a fellow mavs fan you of all people should know this. not only that, but whether people want to admit it or not, Dallas was simply a better basketball team. had they stayed healthy, they probably win 64-65 games that year. Miami had more star power, but the depth wasn't remotely comparable, Dallas was 12 deep with quality players, not to mention a far superior coach.

additionally, lebron wasn't close to being fully developed as a player. he was so good at such a young age that people forget how young he actually was. since you continue to make mike comparisons, at the exact same age, mike was also getting mindscrewed by detroit into forcing a bunch of terrible shots himself and phasing his teammates out. eventually he learned how to win (by trusting and involving his teammates more) when he hit 27. lebron did the same (by learning when to take over games as a scorer).

if mike is sooooooooooo much greater than lebron, then why do you hold him to a lower standard than lebron?

[Dirks_Finale]

I like Spo a lot. I think you Lebron backers purposely underrate him in order to prop up your king :lol. But he is not as good as Rick, I'll concede that much.

My whole point about that 2011 series is that when they needed him to come up big, he repeatedly failed. GM 2, MIA is up like 13 midway through the 4th...all they needed was Lebron to score a single basket and they win. Gm4 MIA has the lead going into the 4th. Lebron scored 8 total points in that game. Had he resembled an NBA star, they go up 3-1 and the series is essentially over. The crucial game 5, he gets outscored by Dirk, Jet, Wade and Bosh. And in the closeout game, gets outplayed by a bench player in Jet.

You are making the age comparison but leaving out the details. Lebron came into the NBA with an NBA ready body...out of high school. He wins in 2012 after 9 years and what did he say...? FINALLY!! Because he knew a guy hyped as much as he was was not meeting expectations.

And I never said MJ was so much better. I think Lebron is a top 10 player all time. It's not like that is chicken liver or some s#$t :lol He just isn't killer Jordan. Nobody is though.


so lebron was bad for all 6 games? he had several very good games in the series too, don't get it twisted. his scoring numbers werent particularly high, but that was largely because wade was able to score at will, and dallas defense was allowing that while being heavily focused on getting the ball out of lebrons hands quickly. even rick said their gameplan was to use a matchup zone to trap lebron early in possessions and force other players to beat them. as a fellow mavs fan you of all people should know this. not only that, but whether people want to admit it or not, Dallas was simply a better basketball team. had they stayed healthy, they probably win 64-65 games that year. Miami had more star power, but the depth wasn't remotely comparable, Dallas was 12 deep with quality players, not to mention a far superior coach.

additionally, lebron wasn't close to being fully developed as a player. he was so good at such a young age that people forget how young he actually was. since you continue to make mike comparisons, at the exact same age, mike was also getting mindscrewed by detroit into forcing a bunch of terrible shots himself and phasing his teammates out. eventually he learned how to win (by trusting and involving his teammates more) when he hit 27. lebron did the same (by learning when to take over games as a scorer).

if mike is sooooooooooo much greater than lebron, then why do you hold him to a lower standard than lebron?

[Neo.]

I like Spo a lot. I think you Lebron backers purposely underrate him in order to prop up your king :lol. But he is not as good as Rick, I'll concede that much.

spo has become a very good coach, but at that time, he was not a good coach. its not a stretch to say that the experience helped him a lot.


My whole point about that 2011 series is that when they needed him to come up big, he repeatedly failed. GM 2, MIA is up like 13 midway through the 4th...all they needed was Lebron to score a single basket and they win. Gm4 MIA has the lead going into the 4th. Lebron scored 8 total points in that game. Had he resembled an NBA star, they go up 3-1 and the series is essentially over. The crucial game 5, he gets outscored by Dirk, Jet, Wade and Bosh. And in the closeout game, gets outplayed by a bench player in Jet.

yes he did fail, no one ever denied that. as a mavs fan i am glad he failed too. but he failed against a better team, in a situation where the heat still had virtually no chemistry. even several of the mavs players said that in playing against them, miamis offense was completely dysfunctional that year, and that the next year they would have had absolutely no chance because the chemistry was better and lebron became so much better of a player.

you continue to ignore the fact that the 2011 series was not lebron at his prime. he was still developing. it would have been much worse if he did something like that in 2017, during his prime years. but we all know that obviously would never happen, considering the fight he put up against KD warriors despite his team being horribly outmatched. he was without question the best player in both of those finals series, yet they went 1-8 because of the team mismatches. he clearly developed massively as a player since 2011. if you take 2017 lebron and replace the 2011 version of him on that heat squad, they almost certainly destroy the mavs.


You are making the age comparison but leaving out the details. Lebron came into the NBA with an NBA ready body...out of high school. He wins in 2012 after 9 years and what did he say...? FINALLY!! Because he knew a guy hyped as much as he was was not meeting expectations.

plenty of people said mike could have went right to the NBA from high school as well. college was probably a great way for him to learn some things that lebron didnt get to learn until losing in 2011.


And I never said MJ was so much better. I think Lebron is a top 10 player all time. It's not like that is chicken liver or some s#$t :lol He just isn't killer Jordan. Nobody is though.

okay well then if MJ is better, you should be holding jordan to a higher standard than lebron, and likewise criticizing him for being a garbage teammate until repeatedly getting destroyed by the pistons and celtics finally taught him to play a better team game, just the same way getting beat by boston, orlando and dallas helped teach lebron how to pick and choose the right times to take over games as a scorer.

fact is, they both had to learn things for several years before they could win rings, because neither of them were just gifted with superstar teammates right off the bat the way guys like kobe, magic and bird were. the difference was that lebrons shortcomings were seen on a bigger stage and under a bigger microscope than mikes were. but mike failed just as miserably as lebron, just in a different aspect of basketball than scoring.

[Dirks_Finale]

Some points:

1.) Was their chemistry really that bad? Let's consider who they beat to get to the Finals. That Rose led Bulls team was no slouch. 1st in defensive ratings, 62 wins and the MVP of the NBA leading them. Oh, they also had HCA. The Heat also beat the Celtics who won 56 and were 2nd overall defensively with a championship pedigree. This was not the 2007 Eastern conference. They mowed down some serious compeition to get there. Hard for me to buy the chemistry sucked considering the results. But yes, I do recall some of the Mavs making chemistry comments. Didn't buy it, but I do recall it. I'm also a Dallas fan and seeing how well Miami played in the Eastern playoffs, i thought we had pretty crappy odds of winning going into that series, tbh. Honestly, what was your feelings going into it about our chances? Remember, I said honestly :lol

2.) Prime years -- this is subjective. Some say it's age 25, others say 26 or 27. I do know he had been in the NBA 9 years before he won and 2011 was not his first Finals trip.

3.) They both have failures. No doubt about it. But MJ does not have that sort of 2011 black mark on his resume. If he did, I'd be more apt to include others in the GOAT conversation to include Lebron.

4.) The last dance revealed to the world just how shitty of a teammate MJ was. It was even worse than I had imagined with the no food for Horace Grant on the plane thing :lol. But it's really hard to argue with 6-0...Really, really hard :lol


spo has become a very good coach, but at that time, he was not a good coach. its not a stretch to say that the experience helped him a lot.



yes he did fail, no one ever denied that. as a mavs fan i am glad he failed too. but he failed against a better team, in a situation where the heat still had virtually no chemistry. even several of the mavs players said that in playing against them, miamis offense was completely dysfunctional that year, and that the next year they would have had absolutely no chance because the chemistry was better and lebron became so much better of a player.

you continue to ignore the fact that the 2011 series was not lebron at his prime. he was still developing. it would have been much worse if he did something like that in 2017, during his prime years. but we all know that obviously would never happen, considering the fight he put up against KD warriors despite his team being horribly outmatched. he was without question the best player in both of those finals series, yet they went 1-8 because of the team mismatches. he clearly developed massively as a player since 2011. if you take 2017 lebron and replace the 2011 version of him on that heat squad, they almost certainly destroy the mavs.



plenty of people said mike could have went right to the NBA from high school as well. college was probably a great way for him to learn some things that lebron didnt get to learn until losing in 2011.



okay well then if MJ is better, you should be holding jordan to a higher standard than lebron, and likewise criticizing him for being a garbage teammate until repeatedly getting destroyed by the pistons and celtics finally taught him to play a better team game, just the same way getting beat by boston, orlando and dallas helped teach lebron how to pick and choose the right times to take over games as a scorer.

fact is, they both had to learn things for several years before they could win rings, because neither of them were just gifted with superstar teammates right off the bat the way guys like kobe, magic and bird were. the difference was that lebrons shortcomings were seen on a bigger stage and under a bigger microscope than mikes were. but mike failed just as miserably as lebron, just in a different aspect of basketball than scoring.

[lefty]

Also the Mavs Zone Defense was fantastic in the Finals

Zone D was still fairly recent and Dallas was one of the best teams in that department

It's harder to attack agianst zone D tbh

[Dirks_Finale]

That was all Dwayne Casey with some credit also to Carlisle. Their zone was confusing as hell because it morphed into man and then suddenly back to zone.

But what's interesting is how the 2011 Mavs are consistenly ranked as one of the worst title teams ever. Seriously, everytime a list comes out Dallas is near the bottom of it. But when it's time to defend Lebron, suddenly it's all world title team :lol


Also the Mavs Zone Defense was fantastic in the Finals

Zone D was still fairly recent and Dallas was one of the best teams in that department

It's harder to attack agianst zone D tbh

[Neo.]

That was all Dwayne Casey with some credit also to Carlisle. Their zone was confusing as hell because it morphed into man and then suddenly back to zone.

But what's interesting is how the 2011 Mavs are consistenly ranked as one of the worst title teams ever. Seriously, everytime a list comes out Dallas is near the bottom of it. But when it's time to defend Lebron, suddenly it's all world title team :lol

or maybe on the other end, people rank it so lowly because it's an easy and fun way to attack lebron

they weren't an all time great team, but they were much better than people give them credit for, and without question better than Miami that year

[Neo.]

Some points:

1.) Was their chemistry really that bad? Let's consider who they beat to get to the Finals. That Rose led Bulls team was no slouch. 1st in defensive ratings, 62 wins and the MVP of the NBA leading them. Oh, they also had HCA. The Heat also beat the Celtics who won 56 and were 2nd overall defensively with a championship pedigree. This was not the 2007 Eastern conference. They mowed down some serious compeition to get there. Hard for me to buy the chemistry sucked considering the results. But yes, I do recall some of the Mavs making chemistry comments. Didn't buy it, but I do recall it. I'm also a Dallas fan and seeing how well Miami played in the Eastern playoffs, i thought we had pretty crappy odds of winning going into that series, tbh. Honestly, what was your feelings going into it about our chances? Remember, I said honestly :lol

2.) Prime years -- this is subjective. Some say it's age 25, others say 26 or 27. I do know he had been in the NBA 9 years before he won and 2011 was not his first Finals trip.

3.) They both have failures. No doubt about it. But MJ does not have that sort of 2011 black mark on his resume. If he did, I'd be more apt to include others in the GOAT conversation to include Lebron.

4.) The last dance revealed to the world just how shitty of a teammate MJ was. It was even worse than I had imagined with the no food for Horace Grant on the plane thing :lol. But it's really hard to argue with 6-0...Really, really hard :lol

So you think they had good chemistry? I suppose the 03-04 Lakers had good chemistry too then, simply because they made it to the finals.

And you think that LeBron's personal best years included his 2010-11 season? You legit don't feel he has been a better basketball player literally every season since then?

and no one argued against 6-0. but it's not that hard to go 6-0 when you are far and away better than your opponent all 6 times.

[Dirks_Finale]

or maybe on the other end, people rank it so lowly because it's an easy and fun way to attack lebron

they weren't an all time great team, but they were much better than people give them credit for, and without question better than Miami that year

I like to think the team is better than the talking heads give them credit for. But realistically it's a one star team like the 94 Rockets and to a certain extent the 03 spurs.

[Dirks_Finale]

So you think they had good chemistry? I suppose the 03-04 Lakers had good chemistry too then, simply because they made it to the finals.

And you think that LeBron's personal best years included his 2010-11 season? You legit don't feel he has been a better basketball player literally every season since then?

and no one argued against 6-0. but it's not that hard to go 6-0 when you are far and away better than your opponent all 6 times.
I saw some of the same issues from Lebron in the 2013 Finals that existed in 2011. The difference was his confidence. He didn't lose it in 2013 even when they were on the brink the way he did in 2011. Would you agree with that?

[Neo.]

I saw some of the same issues from Lebron in the 2013 Finals that existed in 2011. The difference was his confidence. He didn't lose it in 2013 even when they were on the brink the way he did in 2011. Would you agree with that?

no, I don't agree that a short stretch where Tony Parker hit a prayer of a shot, then LeBron had one unfortunate turnover, followed up by Chris bosh being a retard on a wide open alley oop is remotely anything like the shortcomings he had in 2011, especially when he singlehandedly got them back into the game, and hit the three that even made rays shot be worth anything whatsoever, then followed it up with one of the greatest game 7s ever.

[Dirks_Finale]

I realize the game is more than scoring, but look back at the 1st half of the series and how the Spurs were defending him, keeping him out of the paint. It flustered him. 17 points in Gm1(7 of 16), 17 points again in game 2( 7 of 17). 15 points in Gm 3(7 of 21) I thought I was watching 2011 Finals all over again. The difference is he didn't lose confidence and willed his team going forward. There was a little bit of a bailout in GM 6 when he had multiple turnovers and bricks at the end, but pretty much all title teams get some luck along the way so I don't hold it against him. But I do get the Skip Bayless' of the world who choose to do so.


no, I don't agree that a short stretch where Tony Parker hit a prayer of a shot, then LeBron had one unfortunate turnover, followed up by Chris bosh being a retard on a wide open alley oop is remotely anything like the shortcomings he had in 2011, especially when he singlehandedly got them back into the game, and hit the three that even made rays shot be worth anything whatsoever, then followed it up with one of the greatest game 7s ever.

[Neo.]

I realize the game is more than scoring, but look back at the 1st half of the series and how the Spurs were defending him, keeping him out of the paint. It flustered him. 17 points in Gm1(7 of 16), 17 points again in game 2( 7 of 17). 15 points in Gm 3(7 of 21) I thought I was watching 2011 Finals all over again. The difference is he didn't lose confidence and willed his team going forward. There was a little bit of a bailout in GM 6 when he had multiple turnovers and bricks at the end, but pretty much all title teams get some luck along the way so I don't hold it against him. But I do get the Skip Bayless' of the world who choose to do so.

ok so basically it was absolutely nothing like 2011

got it :tu

[Dirks_Finale]

:nope


ok so basically it was absolutely nothing like 2011

got it :tu

[Spurtacular]

I realize the game is more than scoring, but look back at the 1st half of the series and how the Spurs were defending him, keeping him out of the paint. It flustered him. 17 points in Gm1(7 of 16), 17 points again in game 2( 7 of 17). 15 points in Gm 3(7 of 21) I thought I was watching 2011 Finals all over again. The difference is he didn't lose confidence and willed his team going forward. There was a little bit of a bailout in GM 6 when he had multiple turnovers and bricks at the end, but pretty much all title teams get some luck along the way so I don't hold it against him. But I do get the Skip Bayless' of the world who choose to do so.

Lebron choked. White-Guilt Gregg bailed him out.

[Dirks_Finale]

Lebron choked. White-Guilt Gregg bailed him out.

:lol

[Spurtacular]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU12_OWH7bA

[Spurtacular]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJRzMRJye4s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El_Knxgd39k

[Dirks_Finale]

What a game that was!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU12_OWH7bA

[i'm_still_beta]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJRzMRJye4s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El_Knxgd39k

Well, without watching vids, WNBA has a wage cup because it's shitty product and nobody watches it, even women.

[Dirks_Finale]

I usually don't care much for Sharpe's opinions as he is likely paid more money by the network to act as though he honestly thinks Lebron is the goat :lol He knows better. He isn't a kid like Nick Wrong who does not remember the 90's :lol

But I kinda agree with him on Barkely being underrated by the masses. 22/11 for a guy 6/4 playing PF in a day in which size was king, upfront. Not too bad. If you put Barkley over KG I wouldn't argue with you. Don't necessarily agree, but I can see a case being made. Now if his PHX years don't happen, there is no way he is in that conversation.

And nice little dig by Barkley on Draymond. :lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA4z5g9aWm0

[i'm_still_beta]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJRzMRJye4s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El_Knxgd39k

These videos are pretty good tbh.

I especially liked this nice dribble move and Stephen A's reaction :lol
https://youtu.be/xJRzMRJye4s?t=65

[Spurtacular]

These videos are pretty good tbh.

I especially liked this nice dribble move and Stephen A's reaction :lol
https://youtu.be/xJRzMRJye4s?t=65


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpzidpgZzq8

[i'm_still_beta]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpzidpgZzq8

Have already watched it year ago. Great video and great channel

[i'm_still_beta]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpzidpgZzq8

https://youtu.be/JmcX-ON_imA?t=189 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmcX-ON_imA)

This video includes some WNBA content and "highlights".

It also reflects my view about women sports and all this stuff about gender

[Dirks_Finale]

Love the hat!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=59&v=Z11yXv1f34w&feature=emb_t itle

[Spurtacular]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1sNHwqssyQ

[Spurtacular]

I usually don't care much for Sharpe's opinions as he is likely paid more money by the network to act as though he honestly thinks Lebron is the goat :lol He knows better. He isn't a kid like Nick Wrong who does not remember the 90's :lol

But I kinda agree with him on Barkely being underrated by the masses. 22/11 for a guy 6/4 playing PF in a day in which size was king, upfront. Not too bad. If you put Barkley over KG I wouldn't argue with you. Don't necessarily agree, but I can see a case being made. Now if his PHX years don't happen, there is no way he is in that conversation.

And nice little dig by Barkley on Draymond. :lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA4z5g9aWm0

Damn, media has to put their finger up Donkey's ass by contract?

Putting this ass clown in the discussion with Barkley is stupid as it gets.

[Spurtacular]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=083g_DGYtiQ

[Dirks_Finale]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzKwuk7jXdk

[lefty]

Damn TOSB Bird with broken back and finger still putting up numbers :worthy:

[Dirks_Finale]

Bird was amazing. One of the few players that I still genuinely miss watching play the game.

[lefty]

Bird was amazing. One of the few players that I still genuinely miss watching play the game.
Yep, and e was also the goat trash talker imo
:lol and a pretty good troll too

[Spurtacular]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzKwuk7jXdk

I wish Bird didn't have all those injuries. He would've been dropping 70 on Jordan to send a message.

[Spurtacular]

I usually don't care much for Sharpe's opinions as he is likely paid more money by the network to act as though he honestly thinks Lebron is the goat :lol He knows better. He isn't a kid like Nick Wrong who does not remember the 90's :lol

But I kinda agree with him on Barkely being underrated by the masses. 22/11 for a guy 6/4 playing PF in a day in which size was king, upfront. Not too bad. If you put Barkley over KG I wouldn't argue with you. Don't necessarily agree, but I can see a case being made. Now if his PHX years don't happen, there is no way he is in that conversation.

And nice little dig by Barkley on Draymond. :lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA4z5g9aWm0

There's a case that Barkley is over-rated, even. But comparing Donkey to him is sad.

[baseline bum]

Love the hat!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=59&v=Z11yXv1f34w&feature=emb_t itle

Rodman couldn't even lock Robert Horry up

[Dirks_Finale]

He was too busy trying to help David, who was getting pummeled by Hakeem.


Rodman couldn't even lock Robert Horry up

[baseline bum]

He was too busy trying to help David, who was getting pummeled by Hakeem.

Nope he wasn't doing that either.

[lefty]

Nope he wasn't doing that either.

true true

[baseline bum]

Rodman was so helpful in that WCF that only Chicago even made an offer for him after it.

[Dirks_Finale]

Rodman played better defense on Hakeem than MVP Robinson did. I know that's not saying much as Robinson was castrated in that series, but it's true.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5m7Bx9TaPo

[ambchang]

Rodman played better defense on Hakeem than MVP Robinson did. I know that's not saying much as Robinson was castrated in that series, but it's true.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5m7Bx9TaPo

Did you even watch the video? Constant double and triple teams from other spurs teammates required, first time he guarded Hakeem 1 on 1 he gave up an And-1. When he was here to double he left pete chilcutt under the masher for a wide open layup. This goes on and on. It actually spoke to why Hakeem went off like crazy because his doubles were ineffective and he wasn’t even guarding the man he’s supposed to be guarding when he didn’t cover Hakeem. Robinson not only had to guard Hakeem one on one throughout the series, he had to guard Rodmans man.

Next time, find some higher quality trolling please.

[Dirks_Finale]

Watched the video and the damn series! Plus I've read Rodman's book and he talked extensively on it.

Drob, league MVP, could not hold him. So he relied on doubles and sometimes Rodman would get caught on him in switches or when David was on the bench. When coach Hill asked David if he can check Hakeem by himself he just shrugged his shoulders and said" y'all can come down and help if you want" :lol league MVP :lol The reason why Rodman was sometimes cheating and leaving his man is because Hill told him to help David and he was reluctantly doing so. That entire series he was feeling like he had to guard Houston's entire frontline.


Did you even watch the video? Constant double and triple teams from other spurs teammates required, first time he guarded Hakeem 1 on 1 he gave up an And-1. When he was here to double he left pete chilcutt under the masher for a wide open layup. This goes on and on. It actually spoke to why Hakeem went off like crazy because his doubles were ineffective and he wasn’t even guarding the man he’s supposed to be guarding when he didn’t cover Hakeem. Robinson not only had to guard Hakeem one on one throughout the series, he had to guard Rodmans man.

Next time, find some higher quality trolling please.

[ambchang]

Watched the video and the damn series! Plus I've read Rodman's book and he talked extensively on it.

Drob, league MVP, could not hold him. So he relied on doubles and sometimes Rodman would get caught on him in switches or when David was on the bench. When coach Hill asked David if he can check Hakeem by himself he just shrugged his shoulders and said" y'all can come down and help if you want" :lol league MVP :lol The reason why Rodman was sometimes cheating and leaving his man is because Hill told him to help David and he was reluctantly doing so. That entire series he was feeling like he had to guard Houston's entire frontline.

You are basing on Rodman's word, who is a known lunatic, to defend Rodman?

You think Kim Jong Il is some cool guy as well?

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

He was too busy trying to help David, who was getting pummeled by Hakeem.

He didn't help David do shit in that series.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Rodman's book. :rollin

[ambchang]

Dirks_Finale probably things birth of a nation is an American historical fact as well.

[Dirks_Finale]

Rodman had a bunch of problems - -honesty was never one of them.

Shocking that spur fan doesn't want to believe that David was a timid beta :rolleyes

[ambchang]

Rodman had a bunch of problems - -honesty was never one of them.

Shocking that spur fan doesn't want to believe that David was a timid beta :rolleyes

Rodman had a known history of lying to make himself look better than he is. I’m surprised a mavs fan, who actually signed on to him based on one of those lies, didn’t know

[Dirks_Finale]

Rodman had a known history of lying to make himself look better than he is. I’m surprised a mavs fan, who actually signed on to him based on one of those lies, didn’t know

He was a 38 y/o publicity stunt with us that lasted like 5 minutes. We were involved in a youth movement and he was a disruptor. Same guy as with the Spurs and Bulls, only we didn't have the Vet leadership to control him.

[Neo.]

ambchang wont admit it but deep down he truly believes drob is the greatest basketball player to ever live, and that in hakeems situation he would have won 10+ consecutive championships while mike goes ringless

[ambchang]

He was a 38 y/o publicity stunt with us that lasted like 5 minutes. We were involved in a youth movement and he was a disruptor. Same guy as with the Spurs and Bulls, only we didn't have the Vet leadership to control him.

He lied to get a contract.

[ambchang]

ambchang wont admit it but deep down he truly believes drob is the greatest basketball player to ever live, and that in hakeems situation he would have won 10+ consecutive championships while mike goes ringless


When will you pull the “I’m not going to talk about this anymore because I’m right” schtick?

[Neo.]

When will you pull the “I’m not going to talk about this anymore because I’m right” schtick?

when you start making up stats and blatantly lying

or when you pull the "I'll quote every sentence of your reply with an opposite response just for the sake of arguing" schtick

[ambchang]

when you start making up stats and blatantly lying

or when you pull the "I'll quote every sentence of your reply with an opposite response just for the sake of arguing" schtick

I’m sure you can quote every sentence of a reply with the same response to argue.

[Neo.]

I’m sure you can quote every sentence of a reply with the same response to argue.

:tu neat

[Dirks_Finale]

Mindf%%*ing your opponents. Lacking in today's game.

Mourning to Rodman: "You are a sick mother-effer" :lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBfumXGoBpI

[Neo.]

Mindf%%*ing your opponents. Lacking in today's game.


literally a lie

the warriors lost the championship 2016, and its arguable the turning point was due to being mindscrewed by lebron and the cavs enforcing bully tactics in general

[i'm_still_beta]

Mindf%%*ing your opponents. Lacking in today's game.

Mourning to Rodman: "You are a sick mother-effer" :lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBfumXGoBpI

Rodman really got under Alonzo's skin.

Rodman had also trolled Brickowski (nice surname for NBA player btw) in 1996 Finals and iirc got under Kemp's skin too. It was fun to watch.

Btw how would Rodman's rebounding translate to today's era? Rodman often didn't contest opponents' shots and gambled for rebounds at expense of his defense. He could do it in 80's and 90's. Today? Doubt it. His rebounding declined in the playoffs too.

[Dirks_Finale]

It's good question. I'm not sure, since so many threes are launched now you have perimeter guys like Luka getting 9 per game. Rodman probably averages a little less with all the long rebounds, now.


Rodman really got under Alonzo's skin.

Rodman had also trolled Brickowski (nice surname for NBA player btw) in 1996 Finals and iirc got under Kemp's skin too. It was fun to watch.

Btw how would Rodman's rebounding translate to today's era? Rodman often didn't contest opponents' shots and gambled for rebounds at expense of his defense. He could do it in 80's and 90's. Today? Doubt it. His rebounding declined in the playoffs too.

[Dirks_Finale]

Yeah, Steph being his usual beta self and folding when it matters had nothing to do with it. :lol

It was all Lebron's masterful mindgames. :lol


literally a lie

the warriors lost the championship 2016, and its arguable the turning point was due to being mindscrewed by lebron and the cavs enforcing bully tactics in general

[Neo.]

Yeah, Steph being his usual beta self and folding when it matters had nothing to do with it. :lol

It was all Lebron's masterful mindgames. :lol

id say trolling draymond into doing something that would draw a needless technical, when he was knowingly one away from getting suspended was a pretty pivotal moment

and steph wasn't really considered a "beta" by many the way he is now perceived, until after that series. theres no question that lebron taking him on more frequently on individual defensive assignments, as well as giving him extra defensive attention as a help defender clearly affected steph

so yes, i think its fair to give lebron some credit for overcoming a team that overmatched his team by being mentally stronger than them, and inspiring his teammates (many of whom had reputations of being mentally weak at that time, such as kyrie, love, jr)

also lets not act like alonzo was some alpha or anything either, dude was the very definition of a beta, regardless of what rodman did to him.

[140]

Imagine thinking lebron has ever had any sort of upper hand mentally over his opponents :lol

[Spurtacular]

Imagine thinking lebron has ever had any sort of upper hand mentally over his opponents :lol

He has steroids and the refs. Fanboys too, I guess.

[Neo.]

Imagine thinking lebron has ever had any sort of upper hand mentally over his opponents :lol

aside from 2010-11, he has pretty regularly had that upper hand. lebronto. lance blowing in his ear. kd. drose. atlanta. boston. detroit. washington. its funny how quickly people want to revise even recent history.

[140]

aside from 2010-11, he has pretty regularly had that upper hand. lebronto. lance blowing in his ear. kd. drose. atlanta. boston. detroit. washington. its funny how quickly people want to revise even recent history.

He didnt beat any of those teams mentally :lol thats just not who he is tbh. its part of the reason he has had to team up with his buddies to win anything

[i'm_still_beta]

He didnt beat any of those teams mentally :lol thats just not who he is tbh. its part of the reason he has had to team up with his buddies to win anything

He completely destroyed Toronto.

[140]

He completely destroyed Toronto.

Probably the biggest mental midgets in NBA history? That Toronto? ok you can have that one :lol not a particularly high bar to clear though

[Neo.]

Probably the biggest mental midgets in NBA history? That Toronto? ok you can have that one :lol not a particularly high bar to clear though

lol yet you're probably one of the people that exalts Jordan for mindscrewing john starks, who makes derozan seem as reliable as mariano rivera

[Neo.]

He didnt beat any of those teams mentally :lol thats just not who he is tbh. its part of the reason he has had to team up with his buddies to win anything

then I suppose we should say dirk was mentally weak since he needed marion chandler and kidd, or that Shaq was mentally weak since he needed Kobe, or that Kobe was mentally weak since he needed pau, or mike was mentally weak without pippen finally becoming a man, etc...

[Dirks_Finale]

Those masterful mindgames from Lebron were noticeably absent in 2011 and 2014.


Imagine thinking lebron has ever had any sort of upper hand mentally over his opponents :lol

[Dirks_Finale]

He completely destroyed Toronto.


Yes, that fearsome Toronto team led by Demar Depression. Please tell me we have a better example than that :lol

[Dirks_Finale]

Alonzo was a hothead just like Draymond. Credit to Lebron for recognizing that and baiting him. Rodman, OTOH, did this constantly with his opponents....just about any opponent. You just don't see the mental f**kery now at the same level or frequency as you did then.

You guys always mention 2016 as some sort of colossal accomplishment. And yes, it was a tall feat for Lebron, by far the best moment of his career - -but he was the best player in that series, correct? Even a 'hater' like myself acknowledges this. It is often argued that at that level(NBA finals) the team with the best player on it's roster SHOULD win it.


id say trolling draymond into doing something that would draw a needless technical, when he was knowingly one away from getting suspended was a pretty pivotal moment

and steph wasn't really considered a "beta" by many the way he is now perceived, until after that series. theres no question that lebron taking him on more frequently on individual defensive assignments, as well as giving him extra defensive attention as a help defender clearly affected steph

so yes, i think its fair to give lebron some credit for overcoming a team that overmatched his team by being mentally stronger than them, and inspiring his teammates (many of whom had reputations of being mentally weak at that time, such as kyrie, love, jr)

also lets not act like alonzo was some alpha or anything either, dude was the very definition of a beta, regardless of what rodman did to him.

[daslicer]

Alonzo was a hothead just like Draymond. Credit to Lebron for recognizing that and baiting him. Rodman, OTOH, did this constantly with his opponents....just about any opponent. You just don't see the mental f**kery now at the same level or frequency as you did then.

You guys always mention 2016 as some sort of colossal accomplishment. And yes, it was a tall feat for Lebron, by far the best moment of his career - -but he was the best player in that series, correct? Even a 'hater' like myself acknowledges this. It is often argued that at that level(NBA finals) the team with the best player on it's roster SHOULD win it.

I would say in the playoffs that's not always the case. Jordan was clearly the best player when he played against the Pistons from '88-'90 but the bulls kept on losing due to the supporting cast not being good enough. Duncan was the best player against the Lakers in '02 but the Spurs still couldn't win in that series due to lack of depth and talent. I would say Dirk was the best player in the '06 finals but choked away that series. Wade had a great series but I thought Dirk was the better player.

[Dirks_Finale]

Sure, but I am talking specifically about Final's teams because I think if your team was good enough to make it to the finals, you must have had A.) Adequate talent and B.) Good enough chemistry to win it all.

Dirk was the best player in that 2006 series. He was not mentally strong enough at that time to overcome the ref's heavy bias. That loss falls on him. Kobe was the best player in the 2004 Finals and that loss falls on his shoulders.

As you say, it's not always the case. Generally speaking, though, many just expect the team with the best player to win basketball final's series. Finals games are often close and that is where superstars take over... and the preferential treatment that they get from the refs doesn't hurt..


I would say in the playoffs that's not always the case. Jordan was clearly the best player when he played against the Pistons from '88-'90 but the bulls kept on losing due to the supporting cast not being good enough. Duncan was the best player against the Lakers in '02 but the Spurs still couldn't win in that series due to lack of depth and talent. I would say Dirk was the best player in the '06 finals but choked away that series. Wade had a great series but I thought Dirk was the better player.

[lefty]

He completely destroyed Toronto.
That Toronto team was better than any team Jordan faced in the East during the 90s tbh

[Neo.]

Alonzo was a hothead just like Draymond. Credit to Lebron for recognizing that and baiting him. Rodman, OTOH, did this constantly with his opponents....just about any opponent. You just don't see the mental f**kery now at the same level or frequency as you did then.

interesting, considering you and others claim that players today are so mentally weak and soft, yet we don't see them getting mindscrewed at a high level of frequency as players in the 90s did. perhaps the 90s players were actually the ones who were more mentally weak and soft considering they frequently let blatant and obvious trolling get under their skin so badly that they were rendered incapable of playing good basketball, in addition to being incapable of playing under high pressure situations.


You guys always mention 2016 as some sort of colossal accomplishment. And yes, it was a tall feat for Lebron, by far the best moment of his career - -but he was the best player in that series, correct? Even a 'hater' like myself acknowledges this.

a team with the best player in the world winning 57 games compared to a team without the best player in the world winning 73 games shows theres a pretty huge disparity of talent, coaching, and other factors between the two teams regardless of lebrons presence


It is often argued that at that level(NBA finals) the team with the best player on it's roster SHOULD win it.

interesting. ive literally never heard that argument except by people who dont know crap about basketball.

[Neo.]

Yes, that fearsome Toronto team led by Demar Depression. Please tell me we have a better example than that :lol

about as fearsome as a team featuring the dynamic duo of ewing/starks who tried to make of reputation of being a "bully" team, yet somehow they were the team always getting bullied.

[lefty]

about as fearsome as a team featuring the dynamic duo of ewing/starks who tried to make of reputation of being a "bully" team, yet somehow they were the team always getting bullied.

:lol 90s Knicks
lol Ewing + grocery bagger Stark + scrubs

[i'm_still_beta]

:lol 90s Knicks
lol Ewing + grocery bagger Stark + scrubs

Exactly

[i'm_still_beta]

Let's take a look at Jordan's mentally tough competition: https://www.basketballnetwork.net/the-moment-when-charles-barkley-realized-michael-jordan-was-better-than-him/
Most of these mental midgets were defeated even before the first game. Barkley was defeated mentally after the second game :lmao. And they say that 93 Suns were the best team Jordan faced in the Finals:lmao. Do I even need to tell about original "Trash Bros" Stockton and Malone. What a mental giants!

Meanwhile LeBron bullied 73 win team to the point that their star player Draymond Green was crying in parking lot and called second or third best player in the World and begged him to join their team.

[Dirks_Finale]

Toronto, pre-Kawhi, had nobody the caliber of Patrick Ewing on their roster. Nice failed try though :lol

Derozan :lol Ask Spur fan how that's working out for them. :lol


about as fearsome as a team featuring the dynamic duo of ewing/starks who tried to make of reputation of being a "bully" team, yet somehow they were the team always getting bullied.

[Dirks_Finale]

interesting, considering you and others claim that players today are so mentally weak and soft, yet we don't see them getting mindscrewed at a high level of frequency as players in the 90s did. perhaps the 90s players were actually the ones who were more mentally weak and soft considering they frequently let blatant and obvious trolling get under their skin so badly that they were rendered incapable of playing good basketball, in addition to being incapable of playing under high pressure situations.
.

No, it's because today's game simply lacks the Rodman-esque type agigtators. And that is probably also due to the fact that they have to look at 57 angles of the replay everytime someone trips over their own shoe laces. So I do understand why any would be agigators in today's game would refrain from doing so. They don't want the refs to put us all to sleep with their usual overreaction on the slightest bit of contact.

[Kawhitstorm]

He didn't help David do shit in that series.

Rodman didn’t respect betas

[ambchang]

:tu neat

Step one to saying it’s your last response and claim victory.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Rodman didn’t respect betas

Well, he did need to be taught how to obey similar to a dog, so you might be onto something. He liked to be dominated like a bitch, basically.

[lefty]

Toronto, pre-Kawhi, had nobody the caliber of Patrick Ewing on their roster. Nice failed try though :lol

Derozan :lol Ask Spur fan how that's working out for them. :lol
They didn’t but they were still a better team
Pre-Kawhi Raps would have obliterated those Knicks tbh... :lol

[Dirks_Finale]

Wrong!


They didn’t but they were still a better team
Pre-Kawhi Raps would have obliterated those Knicks tbh... :lol

[Neo.]

Toronto, pre-Kawhi, had nobody the caliber of Patrick Ewing on their roster. Nice failed try though :lol

Ewing > Lowry/Derozan

Lowry/Derozan >>>>>>>>>> Starks

the quality of the star wasnt the debate. point is, both teams star players were known for choking. and if we really want to analyze, one could make a good argument that aside from the choking nature of derozan, toronto had a very well built team, arguably more complete of a team than NY was, despite not quite having as big a star as ewing


Derozan :lol Ask Spur fan how that's working out for them. :lol

hes a very solid basketball player with some limitations that hurts his teams chances at elite success, much like ewing.


No, it's because today's game simply lacks the Rodman-esque type agigtators.

beverley? dray?

lets not act like the 90s were just littered with rodmans on every team


the league:cry has no agitators:cry because of instant replay, the :crywhole league is soft and its all the:cry players fault!:cry:cry:cry

[i'm_still_beta]

Poor John Starks tbh. He worked his ass off to become NBA player and everybody shitting and clowning him. But the fact that he was 2nd best player on one of the best teams in the 90s can tell you something.

A lot of people tell that Wilt and Bill played in weak era against milkmen. It's just a matter of time before next generations of basketball fans would start trashing 80s and 90s NBA.

[lefty]

Poor John Starks tbh. He worked his ass off to become NBA player and everybody shitting and clowning him. But the fact that he was 2nd best player on one of the best teams in the 90s can tell you something.

A lot of people tell that Wilt and Bill played in weak era against milkmen. It's just a matter of time before next generations of basketball fans would start trashing 80s and 90s NBA.
The fact that he was the 2nd best player on that Knicks really shows that roster was trash tbh
I still have a lot of respect for him, he worked his off and had a big heart
Not his fault if he was smaller than Jordan and not very talented, it would be like Kevin Hart being matched up against LeBron tbh

The problem with the 90s fanboys is they will tell you that era was better than today just because.

So by that logic , the 50s were better than the 90s?

[Dirks_Finale]

The game is played with less edge today. You can see it as well, you just don't want to admit it :lol

I'll give you bev, he is a throwback player.


Ewing > Lowry/Derozan

Lowry/Derozan >>>>>>>>>> Starks

the quality of the star wasnt the debate. point is, both teams star players were known for choking. and if we really want to analyze, one could make a good argument that aside from the choking nature of derozan, toronto had a very well built team, arguably more complete of a team than NY was, despite not quite having as big a star as ewing



hes a very solid basketball player with some limitations that hurts his teams chances at elite success, much like ewing.



beverley? dray?

lets not act like the 90s were just littered with rodmans on every team

[Dirks_Finale]

I think some of you underrate the rest of the Knicks. Starks was the 2nd best player, but not always and sometimes not by much. Anthony Mason could give you 16-10-5 with solid defense, fairly consistently if his head was screwed on right. In today's game he's probably around 18-20 ppg as there are more possessions. Same could be said for someone like Xavier McDaniel. The Knicks were built similarly to Dirk's Mavs with a by-committee collection of good, but not great players around a star player.

In 96/97 they had Allan Houston and Larry Johnson who were no slouches.

Demar's Raptors were not taken seriously by anyone outside of Drake. :lol

[Dirks_Finale]

And in 20 years they will be saying the same crap about today's IG models :lol That's just how it goes.


Poor John Starks tbh. He worked his ass off to become NBA player and everybody shitting and clowning him. But the fact that he was 2nd best player on one of the best teams in the 90s can tell you something.

A lot of people tell that Wilt and Bill played in weak era against milkmen. It's just a matter of time before next generations of basketball fans would start trashing 80s and 90s NBA.

[Neo.]

The game is played with less edge today. You can see it as well, you just don't want to admit it :lol

actually ive said many times that the game isnt as reliant on physicality and bully tactics. you just dont want to read.

i simply disagreed that the mindgames are lacking in the modern nba. they are played very much still. less? perhaps, i wouldn't argue that. but to a point that the game lacks it? i dont agree.


I'll give you bev, he is a throwback player.

actually, hes a modern player. quit applying commonly used tactics as if its something only existent in the past. otherwise we might as well say that every aspect of basketball is "throwback" since its basically all been in existence for 40+ years.


I think some of you underrate the rest of the Knicks. Starks was the 2nd best player, but not always and sometimes not by much. Anthony Mason could give you 16-10-5 with solid defense, fairly consistently if his head was screwed on right. In today's game he's probably around 18-20 ppg as there are more possessions. Same could be said for someone like Xavier McDaniel. The Knicks were built similarly to Dirk's Mavs with a by-committee collection of good, but not great players around a star player.

In 96/97 they had Allan Houston and Larry Johnson who were no slouches.

Demar's Raptors were not taken seriously by anyone outside of Drake. :lol

no one said the knicks werent a good team. just that toronto isnt nearly as bad as you suggest. for years they have been very similar to what you just described the knicks as being, in terms of a collection of good but not great players, surrounding a star (in torontos case, it was two stars that weren't quite on the level of ewing, but still a very good 1-2 punch combo). obviously they must have had a pretty good team considering they won a championship pretty much by replacing derozan with kawhi.

[ambchang]

Ewing was only a high caliber star because he played for the Knicks. If he played in Milwaukee he’d be nothing more than Damian Lillard level stardom.

[Neo.]

Step one to saying it’s your last response and claim victory.

coming from the poster more obsessed than anyone with getting the last word in order to claim victory

[ambchang]

coming from the poster more obsessed than anyone with getting the last word in order to claim victory

Aren’t you the guy who kept saying people don’t read your post? Read mine again please.

[Neo.]

Aren’t you the guy who kept saying people don’t read your post? Read mine again please.

no

[Dirks_Finale]

actually ive said many times that the game isnt as reliant on physicality and bully tactics. you just dont want to read.

i simply disagreed that the mindgames are lacking in the modern nba. they are played very much still. less? perhaps, i wouldn't argue that. but to a point that the game lacks it? i dont agree.



actually, hes a modern player. quit applying commonly used tactics as if its something only existent in the past. otherwise we might as well say that every aspect of basketball is "throwback" since its basically all been in existence for 40+ years.



no one said the knicks werent a good team. just that toronto isnt nearly as bad as you suggest. for years they have been very similar to what you just described the knicks as being, in terms of a collection of good but not great players, surrounding a star (in torontos case, it was two stars that weren't quite on the level of ewing, but still a very good 1-2 punch combo). obviously they must have had a pretty good team considering they won a championship pretty much by replacing derozan with kawhi.

Thats not accurate as Toronto did not have Siakim then. Had they had a developed Siakim and Lebron was beating them I'd give him credit for beating a good team.

Lebron faced a bunch of tomato cans on his way to the finals. And you know this :lol

[Kawhitstorm]

The fact that he was the 2nd best player on that Knicks really shows that roster was trash tbh
I still have a lot of respect for him, he worked his off and had a big heart
Not his fault if he was smaller than Jordan and not very talented, it would be like Kevin Hart being matched up against LeBron tbh

The problem with the 90s fanboys is they will tell you that era was better than today just because.

So by that logic , the 50s were better than the 90s?

What does it say about early/mid 2000s NBA (aka your prime years) that Billups/Ben Wallace got cut & led a team to a chip along with Stephen Jackson being the second best player on a championship team & Boobie Gibson on a team that made it to the Finals?

[lefty]

What does it say about early/mid 2000s NBA (aka your prime years) that Billups/Ben Wallace got cut & led a team to a chip along with Stephen Jackson being the second best player on a championship team & Boobie Gibson on a team that made it to the Finals?
Ah Boobie Gibson....


:lol the reason Porker won FMVP

[Neo.]

Thats not accurate as Toronto did not have Siakim then. Had they had a developed Siakim and Lebron was beating them I'd give him credit for beating a good team.

Lebron faced a bunch of tomato cans on his way to the finals. And you know this :lol

to average 55 wins in a three year stretch means youre a pretty solid team. title contenders? no they weren't, especially in seasons where you had the cavs, spurs, rockets and warriors all playing at incredibly high levels.

but lets not act like they were just some garbage team. they had a pair of legit all-stars, solid coaching, very good dept/balance, and consistently having one of the best bench units in the NBA. the only thing they were missing all those years was one of their all-stars stepping up as a legit superstar.

oddly, that sounds pretty much like the pacers/knicks/heat of the 90s that people were so fond of.

[i'm_still_beta]

What does it say about early/mid 2000s NBA (aka your prime years) that Billups/Ben Wallace got cut & led a team to a chip along with Stephen Jackson being the second best player on a championship team & Boobie Gibson on a team that made it to the Finals?

GOAT era with team play, no 3-point shots spamming and zone defense :worthy:

[ambchang]

no

Pretty sure that was you:


i dont deny being a lebron fan. but if you actually took the time to read anything, you would see that you were the one who brought up lebron the majority of the time, not me. my issue through basically all of our discussions have been with 1) double standards and 2) revisionist history of previous eras. lebron was usually the focus of the discussion due to your obsession with bringing him up. but i have defended plenty of other modern stars too on these subjects, such as steph, kd, kobe, harden, dirk, etc...

fwiw i grew up watching 90s basketball so it has a very special place in my heart. but im not going to be ignorant and exalt it as being something it wasnt. it was an era of basketball that generally lacked talent (compared to the 80s, 00s, and 10s), but overcame it with energy, effort and the showmanship of MJ.

whats also funny is your attempt to try to avoid addressing your ridiculous double standard. now im curious how you plan to justify it.

"mike is the goat, so he should get a pass!!!1!11!" is basically what it boils down to for people who use that ridiculous double standard


obviously reading isnt your strong suit as i didnt say that. i said russell was ahead of tim



what proof do you have that there is no bias?

if you dont agree with it, then why bother to try to use it as some sort of conclusive proof that kg > dirk? :lmao



so that means garnett is about as skilled as timmy?



yet dirk was the one who is viewed as transcendent, and a guy who completely changed the way basketball is played in the nba

obviously his one way of affecting the game was much bigger than all of kgs



some of his prime years

then some of them he spent with 2-3 hof players in their primes and only has 1 ring to show for it



lol ok




:lmao of course its non-arbitrary when it fits your opinion



i dont disagree about circumstances, but in the end, you can only prove what actually happened. its the same reason that no matter how much people want to argue it, mike will continue to be greater than lebron, despite all the arguments for bron being a better basketball player

dirk had a more impressive career than kg, plain and simple. he changed the league and put a team on his back to win a ring. kg did neither of those.


the difference is what lefty was saying was retaliatory and clearly in blatant jest



lebron was the person being questioned in this conversation

if you had bothered to actually read, you would have seen that very clearly. but you seem more interested in arguing for the sake of arguing, per the norm with you.

[Neo.]

Pretty sure that was you:

1 thats not what i was saying no to

2 your point is?

[ambchang]

1 thats not what i was saying no to

2 your point is?

Read your own posts then.

[Neo.]

Read your own posts then.

lol butthurt

[ambchang]

lol butthurt

Lol non sensical.

[Neo.]

i have gotten the last word, making me the victor!

[ambchang]

Not exactly sure how you doing exactly what you accuse others of doing is showing your wits. It’s like you are a walking contradiction and you do it consistently

Waiting for the “I’m not arguing anymore because I’m right” but.

[Neo.]

Not exactly sure how you doing exactly what you accuse others of doing is showing your wits. It’s like you are a walking contradiction and you do it consistently

Waiting for the “I’m not arguing anymore because I’m right” but.

this post is the same contradiction itself. especially with the reply that omits a quote in hopes I don't see it, don't respond and you can have the last word and get the gratification that you get out of it

congrats on lowering yourself to my level :toast

[ambchang]

this post is the same contradiction itself. especially with the reply that omits a quote in hopes I don't see it, don't respond and you can have the last word and get the gratification that you get out of it

congrats on lowering yourself to my level :toast

Did I ever say it was an issue? Apparently you had an issue and you just kept perpetuating it. It exactly sure what your issue is if you kept doing it.

[Neo.]

Did I ever say it was an issue? Apparently you had an issue and you just kept perpetuating it. It exactly sure what your issue is if you kept doing it.

:tu cool story bro

[Capt Bringdown]

Got on a Jabaar, Walton and UCLA kick recently. Nothing flashy, just domination via fundamentals.
Rather like Duncan.
Jabaar was the goat.

[Spurtacular]

The best team of 97, tbh.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv2aQ-Y9uOs

[lefty]

The best team of 97, tbh.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv2aQ-Y9uOs
and 98
They got robbed both years tbh

[lefty]

Got on a Jabaar, Walton and UCLA kick recently. Nothing flashy, just domination via fundamentals.
Rather like Duncan.
Jabaar was the goat.

jabbar>jordan

[Capt Bringdown]

jabbar>jordan
Undoubtedly. And a better person too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEhhlcAOWo4

[lefty]

Undoubtedly. And a better person too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEhhlcAOWo4

Meanwhile MJ berated his HS school coach in front a front of the world for something that never happened

[TDfan2007]

The best team of 97, tbh.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv2aQ-Y9uOs

Malone choked...otherwise maybe. They played a great brand of basketball

[TDfan2007]

Got on a Jabaar, Walton and UCLA kick recently. Nothing flashy, just domination via fundamentals.
Rather like Duncan.
Jabaar was the goat.


jabbar>jordan

The fact that people act like an argument can't be made for Kareem as the GOAT is ridiculous. He's the greatest offensive big in NBA history and no slouch on D. 6 titles, 5 MVPs. He's also a great human being.

And yeah, much like Timmy, no flash and kept to himself, so he gets ignored historically by casual fans

[Neo.]

based on accolades, tbqh on the surface it seems pretty unquestionable that kareem > mike

what hurts kareem in his argument is that most of his championships came well after his prime, several of which were when he was no longer the best player on the team

i think he still has a case, but thats the only reason id say its not undisputed

[Spurtacular]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObyB_wGsfak

[Dirks_Finale]

This is excellent.

I was going to say that there was not a single beta male on the court...but then towards the end you see #12 from Australia started acting like today's NBA players...running from guys half his size and calling the cops on them :lol




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObyB_wGsfak

[Neo.]

:cry :cry :cry players don't get into enough pointless stupid unnecessary fist fights anymore :cry

[lefty]

This is excellent.

I was going to say that there was not a single beta male on the court...but then towards the end you see #12 from Australia started acting like today's NBA players...running from guys half his size and calling the cops on them :lol

lol Jordan shat his pants when Glen Rice walked up to him

[lefty]

:cry :cry :cry players don't get into enough pointless stupid unnecessary fist fights anymore :cry

:cry Nba was so tuff back in the days

[Neo.]

the reasons rivalries aren't as common isn't bc players don't fight. it's bc 1) expansions, and 2) the way the schedule is set up

it's stupid when you have "divisions", yet winning them basically means nothing. additionally, you play teams in your division just as much as you play teams out of your division. before all the expansions, teams would play each other 6-7 times a year within the same division.

look at baseball. no question that the Yankees and redsox are going to hate each other's guts more when they play each other 15+ times in a year, compared to playing the Angels 5-6 times. plus winning the division is the only guarantee you have to make the playoffs since less teams get in.

if the NBA wants rivalries to come back, they need to reduce games outside of conferences, reduce games outside of your division, replace those reduced games with more games within divisions, and make winning your division have more value

[Spurtacular]

This is excellent.

I was going to say that there was not a single beta male on the court...but then towards the end you see #12 from Australia started acting like today's NBA players...running from guys half his size and calling the cops on them :lol

No way. #12 Knocked out a guy cold in the first place.