"Muh Sweden."

[midnightpulp]

Holy shit I'm getting sick of the "Sweden argument" from the anti-lockdown crowd on the shithole known as twitter. Conservative media is also on the Sweden bandwagon. Let's take it apart.

"Sweden proves lockdowns don't really work, and they haven't torpedoed their economy based on faulty models and wrong assumptions about the virus's mortality rate."

Sweden is not "business as usual."

They can't have events with more than 50 people. School closures for over 16. And even though their stay-at-home orders aren't as stringent as everyone else's, the Swedish have voluntary stayed-at-home. Here's their movement data.

https://www.gstatic.com/covid19/mobility/2020-04-11_SE_Mobility_Report_en.pdf

Key figure here is the -41% in retail and recreation. That is only 7 percentage points lower than California's https://www.gstatic.com/covid19/mobility/2020-04-11_US_California_Mobility_Report_en.pdf.

What this means is that Sweden's lax measures aren't doing much to prop up the hardest hit economic sectors (your bars, restaurants, clubs, theaters) because people aren't too keen on going to those right now. So "the Swedish Model" isn't going to help with that if we stupidly try to apply it here.

"We should apply the Swedish model to save the economy, as they've proven you can have an open economy and mitigate spread."

Sweden hasn't "mitigated" the spread at all. Let's return to that above movement data from them and California. California is socially distancing a bit more, but given the exponential nature of epidemic growth, that 41% vs. 48% figure in retail/recreation movement and 24% vs, 40% in workplace movement has proven huge. California has 4 times the population of Sweden, 5 times the population density, more multi-person homes (Sweden has one of the highest rates of single person homes in Europe), more international travel, and CA's death rate is 37 per million vs. Sweden's 192 million.

"Other Euro countries have locked down and are doing worse than Sweden."

Countries like the Netherlands and Belgium have not locked down, with the former going for the herd immunity strategy. Not working out too well for them. And many of those other hard hit regions in Europe are suffering because they were late to lockdown. And the UK went for the herd immunity strategy early on and is on pace to become the hardest hit country in Europe.

That said, I won't argue if the Swedish strategy works for Sweden. But the supporters of that strategy are making the apples to oranges comparison fallacy. Sweden's population density is 57 people per sq mile. That's lower than Utah's, a sparse state. 50 percent of their working population already worked from home before this. They have more single person households. I would assume the average Swede is in better physical shape than the average American. They have no cities with over 1 million people. They have some things in their favor that they can try this strategy that many US regions don't. It might work on a very region specific basis, but not countrywide. And it has no hope in hell of working in densely populated areas.

[horseshue]

Sweden is not the worst case, look at Belgium, they have 560 dead on one million, compared to usa with 144. That is 180k to 200k dead in usa. So no, that is wrong way to go.

[Spurtacular]

Sweden's a cold weather region and California's a warm weather region.
Now compare Sweden to New York. Yea, that's what I thought.

[ChumpDumper]

Sweden's a cold weather region and California's a warm weather region.
Now compare Sweden to New York. Yea, that's what I thought.Compare Sweden to Norway and Finland.

[Spurtacular]

Compare Sweden to Norway and Finland.

Are we taking away the nursing home deaths for which Sweden had severe outbreaks?

[midnightpulp]

Sweden's a cold weather region and California's a warm weather region.
Now compare Sweden to New York. Yea, that's what I thought.

We still don't know for sure how warm weather and UV light affects transmission. And that is CA's ONLY inherent advantage vs. Sweden. Sweden has all the others with regard to pop density, working life, health of citizens, etc.

[hater]

Sweden is not the worst case, look at Belgium, they have 560 dead on one million, compared to usa with 144. That is 180k to 200k dead in usa. So no, that is wrong way to go.

have u been to belgium. its population density is fucked

sweden is the opposite

[ChumpDumper]

Are we taking away the nursing home deaths for which Sweden had severe outbreaks?derp folds

[RandomGuy]

Holy shit I'm getting sick of the "Sweden argument" from the anti-lockdown crowd on the shithole known as twitter. Conservative media is also on the Sweden bandwagon. Let's take it apart.

"Sweden proves lockdowns don't really work, and they haven't torpedoed their economy based on faulty models and wrong assumptions about the virus's mortality rate."

Sweden is not "business as usual."

They can't have events with more than 50 people. School closures for over 16. And even though their stay-at-home orders aren't as stringent as everyone else's, the Swedish have voluntary stayed-at-home. Here's their movement data.

https://www.gstatic.com/covid19/mobility/2020-04-11_SE_Mobility_Report_en.pdf

Key figure here is the -41% in retail and recreation. That is only 7 percentage points lower than California's https://www.gstatic.com/covid19/mobility/2020-04-11_US_California_Mobility_Report_en.pdf.

What this means is that Sweden's lax measures aren't doing much to prop up the hardest hit economic sectors (your bars, restaurants, clubs, theaters) because people aren't too keen on going to those right now. So "the Swedish Model" isn't going to help with that if we stupidly try to apply it here.

"We should apply the Swedish model to save the economy, as they've proven you can have an open economy and mitigate spread."

Sweden hasn't "mitigated" the spread at all. Let's return to that above movement data from them and California. California is socially distancing a bit more, but given the exponential nature of epidemic growth, that 41% vs. 48% figure in retail/recreation movement and 24% vs, 40% in workplace movement has proven huge. California has 4 times the population of Sweden, 5 times the population density, more multi-person homes (Sweden has one of the highest rates of single person homes in Europe), more international travel, and CA's death rate is 37 per million vs. Sweden's 192 million.

"Other Euro countries have locked down and are doing worse than Sweden."

Countries like the Netherlands and Belgium have not locked down, with the former going for the herd immunity strategy. Not working out too well for them. And many of those other hard hit regions in Europe are suffering because they were late to lockdown. And the UK went for the herd immunity strategy early on and is on pace to become the hardest hit country in Europe.

That said, I won't argue if the Swedish strategy works for Sweden. But the supporters of that strategy are making the apples to oranges comparison fallacy. Sweden's population density is 57 people per sq mile. That's lower than Utah's, a sparse state. 50 percent of their working population already worked from home before this. They have more single person households. I would assume the average Swede is in better physical shape than the average American. They have no cities with over 1 million people. They have some things in their favor that they can try this strategy that many US regions don't. It might work on a very region specific basis, but not countrywide. And it has no hope in hell of working in densely populated areas.

All you have to do is start comparing Sweden to its neighbors. Higher and faster infection rate, with the inexorable higher death toll per capita.

Entirely predictable.

Looks like the jury has come back for even brainwashed morons like TSA

[Winehole23]

Are we taking away the nursing home deaths for which Sweden had severe outbreaks?Fatalities are fatalities.

Why should they be "taken away"?

[RandomGuy]

Sweden's a cold weather region and California's a warm weather region.
Now compare Sweden to New York. Yea, that's what I thought.

New York has a farther southern latitude, you fucking moron.

https://www.travelmath.com/cities/New+York,+NY

The latitude and longitude of New York, New York is:
40° 42' 51" N / 74° 0' 23" W

Stockholm, Sweden
Latitude and longitude coordinates are: 59° 20' 4.5276'' N, 18° 3' 47.6640'' E


Cherry pick fail. :lmao

https://chrystalovevintage.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/fail-meme.jpg

[TimDunkem]

All you have to do is start comparing Sweden to its neighbors. Higher and faster infection rate, with the inexorable higher death toll per capita.

Entirely predictable.

Looks like the jury has come back for even brainwashed morons like TSA

Doubt that will matter. TSA is still pushing hydroxychloroquine despite every single anecdote coming out now saying it's killing more patients than it's saving.

[TimDunkem]

New York has a farther southern latitude, you fucking moron.

https://www.travelmath.com/cities/New+York,+NY

The latitude and longitude of New York, New York is:
40° 42' 51" N / 74° 0' 23" W

Stockholm, Sweden
Latitude and longitude coordinates are: 59° 20' 4.5276'' N, 18° 3' 47.6640'' E


Cherry pick fail. :lmao

https://chrystalovevintage.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/fail-meme.jpg

:lmao

[RandomGuy]

Sweden's a cold weather region and California's a warm weather region.
Now compare Sweden to New York. Yea, that's what I thought.

So setting aside your comically bad ignorance of basic geography, let's compare to peers, so that we can actually do some critical thinking for your lazy ass.



Total confirmed cases 16,755
Total deaths 2,021



7,275 positive cases
187 people now confirmed dead.


Total confirmed cases 4170
Total deaths 149

Sweden 10 M people
Finland 5.53M
Norway 5.4M

Since you are too fucking stupid to understand how to compare things, let me explain the math. I'll try to use small words.

Total cases really are practically meaningless.
What is more important is rate of infection per million people.

I will even do the math for you.
Norway:
7275/5.4M =1347
187/5.4M =34

Finland
4170/5.3M= 786
149/5.3M =28

Sweden
16755/10M= 1676
2021/10M= 202

Sweden has a higher infection rate, and its fatality rate is more than SIX TIMES higher than it's peers.

[TimDunkem]

So setting aside your comically bad ignorance of basic geography, let's compare to peers, so that we can actually do some critical thinking for your lazy ass.







Sweden 10 M people
Finland 5.53M
Norway 5.4M

Since you are too fucking stupid to understand how to compare things, let me explain the math. I'll try to use small words.

Total cases really are practically meaningless.
What is more important is rate of infection per million people.

I will even do the math for you.
Norway:
7275/5.4M =1347
187/5.4M =34

Finland
4170/5.3M= 786
149/5.3M =28

Sweden
16755/10M= 1676
2021/10M= 202

Sweden has a higher infection rate, and its fatality rate is more than SIX TIMES higher than it's peers.

A nitpick and subsequent deflection coupled with an ad-hominem coming soon.

[RandomGuy]

Doubt that will matter. TSA is still pushing hydroxychloroquine despite every single anecdote coming out now saying it's killing more patients than it's saving.

Brainwashed morons will be brainwashed morons. He is deep into the cult lore, and will not find his way out for years, if ever. Qanon, Trump is a secret genius, and whatever else conspiracy theory he thinks he needs for his self-esteem.

[RandomGuy]

Fatalities are fatalities.

Why should they be "taken away"?

They shouldn't be. You don't get nursing home clusters if you don't have it widespread enough to infect caregivers. Isolating that from the data is impractical anyways IFAIK.

[David Hogg]

Are we taking away the nursing home deaths for which Sweden had severe outbreaks?
:lmao

”I WIN!!!!!...........................if you take away the stats that make me lose”

[hater]

this site tracks deaths in europe its still too soon to see the effects of coronavirus but you can definitely see the start of an anomaly in the graph compared to previous years

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/

I think in about a month, this graph will be very useful to point out to the idiots that think this is a hoax

note that Sweden excess deaths are almost on par with UK, Spain, Italy tbqh

[midnightpulp]

this site tracks deaths in europe its still too soon to see the effects of coronavirus but you can definitely see the start of an anomaly in the graph compared to previous years

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/

I think in about a month, this graph will be very useful to point out to the idiots that think this is a hoax

note that Sweden excess deaths are almost on par with UK, Spain, Italy tbqh

Illuminating stuff. Seems the usual death count in Europe for Week 15 is around 50K. It was 73K this year, and with social distancing/lockdowns. That should concern anyone.

[TSA]

All you have to do is start comparing Sweden to its neighbors. Higher and faster infection rate, with the inexorable higher death toll per capita.

Entirely predictable.

Looks like the jury has come back for even brainwashed morons like TSA

Making a comparison now is pretty pointless as we'll only see if Sweden's strategy worked if a second wave hits it's neighbors and Sweden avoids it.

[pgardn]

Sweden also has a much better health care system (than we do; Thanks Donald for lying to us) so they were willing to try knowing they would not overwhelm hospitals.

[pgardn]

Making a comparison now is pretty pointless as we'll only see if Sweden's strategy worked if a second wave hits it's neighbors and Sweden avoids it.

True.
Sweden could have a second wave as well.
I don’t think they know what % Of the country has immunity (assumes one can’t get it a second time)
This thing is not over for any part of the world.

[midnightpulp]

Making a comparison now is pretty pointless as we'll only see if Sweden's strategy worked if a second wave hits it's neighbors and Sweden avoids it.

They'll have a second wave. Swedes just aren't willy-nilly going about business in an effort to fast track herd immunity. They aren't on stay-at-home orders, but most have restricted their movement as if they were. Point is, the Swedish strategy might be nominally different, but it isn't actually different by that much. I emphasize by that much because that additional measure of freedom they have has resulted in Sweden having slightly higher retail/recreation and workplace mobility than their Norwegian neighbors for instance, but a much higher death rate (200 per million vs. 35 per million). Keeping that small a percentage more people at home really doesn't translate into big gains on mitigating death. We've all seen that popular gif where 4 people staying at home curbs the spreads by a huge factor.

This tells me Sweden's waves will be worse than others. They're not interacting enough to achieve herd immunity and not staying home enough to mitigate death all that much.

[RandomGuy]

Making a comparison now is pretty pointless as we'll only see if Sweden's strategy worked if a second wave hits it's neighbors and Sweden avoids it.

:lmao

#goalpostmove.gif

[Winehole23]

Making a comparison now is pretty pointless as we'll only see if Sweden's strategy worked if a second wave hits it's neighbors and Sweden avoids it.More hand waving and magical thinking from TSA.

[midnightpulp]

:lmao

#goalpostmove.gif

The second wave argument is typically based off the Spanish Flu, but there's some details there that the second wave's lethality was actually a result of many factors:


Harris believes that the rapid spread of Spanish flu in the fall of 1918 was at least partially to blame on public health officials unwilling to impose quarantines during wartime.


The public health response to the crisis in the United States was further hampered by a severe nursing shortage as thousands of nurses had been deployed to military camps and the front lines.

https://www.history.com/news/spanish-flu-second-wave-resurgence

[midnightpulp]

And one of the reasons I'm coming so hard at all the arguments to reopen the economy based on examples like Sweden, "cure is worse than the disease" logic, and such is because I find it morally reprehensible to force people back to work during a goddamn pandemic so that they can pay their bills and put food on the table when people like Jeff Bezos are making 40 billion in a month off of the pandemic and when Americans are collectively sitting on over a hundred trillion in assets.

I want these structural issues addressed that has resulted in our country not being able to care of our own during a time when they should be taken care of and not used as sacrificial lambs for the economy. And yes, there's enough out there to take care of those Americans who need it the most. This is also why essential workers are the biggest American heroes since World War II. Maybe in our total history. They, unfortunately, do have to work, just to keep society going. But an out-of-work bartender or hair stylist shouldn't be forced back into it to pay their bills.

[DMC]

Why do so many here believe the reports are accurate? Every country, every state, has different reporting schemes.

Using this type of data to try to prove a point is, for the most part, pointless. Otherwise China stopped it dead in it's tracks. Just look how the cases and deaths flat lined suddenly.

[baseline bum]

And one of the reasons I'm coming so hard at all the arguments to reopen the economy based on examples like Sweden, "cure is worse than the disease" logic, and such is because I find it morally reprehensible to force people back to work during a goddamn pandemic so that they can pay their bills and put food on the table when people like Jeff Bezos are making 40 billion in a month off of the pandemic and when Americans are collectively sitting on over a hundred trillion in assets.

I want these structural issues addressed that has resulted in our country not being able to care of our own during a time when they should be taken care of and not used as sacrificial lambs for the economy. And yes, there's enough out there to take care of those Americans who need it the most. This is also why essential workers are the biggest American heroes since World War II. Maybe in our total history. They, unfortunately, do have to work, just to keep society going. But an out-of-work bartender or hair stylist shouldn't be forced back into it to pay their bills.

Tough shit, we live a failed nation run by oligarchs and lots of us will die because of it. At least you have a competent state government that gives somewhat of a fuck unlike most of us here.

[midnightpulp]

Tough shit, we live a failed nation run by oligarchs and lots of us will die because of it. At least you have a competent state government that gives somewhat of a fuck unlike most of us here.

Pretty much.

:madrun "Give them more tax cuts! It will 'trickle down' to the rest of us. Why do you hate success! He earned it by pulling himself up by his bootstraps." :madrun

https://www.businessinsider.com/new-york-billionaire-john-griffins-jet-flew-to-new-zealand-just-as-coronavirus-hit-the-us-2020-4

[Play Boban]

So setting aside your comically bad ignorance of basic geography, let's compare to peers, so that we can actually do some critical thinking for your lazy ass.







Sweden 10 M people
Finland 5.53M
Norway 5.4M

Since you are too fucking stupid to understand how to compare things, let me explain the math. I'll try to use small words.

Total cases really are practically meaningless.
What is more important is rate of infection per million people.

I will even do the math for you.
Norway:
7275/5.4M =1347
187/5.4M =34

Finland
4170/5.3M= 786
149/5.3M =28

Sweden
16755/10M= 1676
2021/10M= 202

Sweden has a higher infection rate, and its fatality rate is more than SIX TIMES higher than it's peers.
Going to be fun watching you get proven wrong when Finland and Norway get RAVAGED by the second wave in the fall while Sweden is immune to the Chinese virus. :lol

[Play Boban]

And one of the reasons I'm coming so hard at all the arguments to reopen the economy based on examples like Sweden, "cure is worse than the disease" logic, and such is because I find it morally reprehensible to force people back to work during a goddamn pandemic so that they can pay their bills and put food on the table when people like Jeff Bezos are making 40 billion in a month off of the pandemic and when Americans are collectively sitting on over a hundred trillion in assets.

I want these structural issues addressed that has resulted in our country not being able to care of our own during a time when they should be taken care of and not used as sacrificial lambs for the economy. And yes, there's enough out there to take care of those Americans who need it the most. This is also why essential workers are the biggest American heroes since World War II. Maybe in our total history. They, unfortunately, do have to work, just to keep society going. But an out-of-work bartender or hair stylist shouldn't be forced back into it to pay their bills.
It is morally reprehensible to force businesses to go bankrupt and people to lose their jobs. Suicides will spike and people will starve. The Chinese have won. Way to go, RIP Western society.

[TSA]

:lmao

#goalpostmove.gif

Goalpost move from what? I never once said I thought the US should take Sweden's approach.

[baseline bum]

Goalpost move from what? I never once said I thought the US should take Sweden's approach.

Well we're getting ready to thanks to the fuckhead in your avatar.

[TSA]

Well we're getting ready to thanks to the fuckhead in your avatar.

Trump is forcing states to open? :lol

[baseline bum]

Trump is forcing states to open? :lol

States with Republican governors, yes, since he is the GOP. Even Trump's retarded rule about opening gyms of all places is a major part of our piece of shit governor Greg Abbott's early reopening plan. You obviously endorse the Sweden approach when you defend everything Trump on this site.

[midnightpulp]

1253349842295889921

[Winehole23]

Why do so many here believe the reports are accurate? Every country, every state, has different reporting schemes.

Using this type of data to try to prove a point is, for the most part, pointless. Otherwise China stopped it dead in it's tracks. Just look how the cases and deaths flat lined suddenly.Your diffuse cynicism about the quality of reporting amounts to hand waving.

Why believe anything?

[Spurtacular]

derp folds

:cry No accounting for anomalies :cry

LOL Davdi Dump

[Spurtacular]

We still don't know for sure how warm weather and UV light affects transmission. And that is CA's ONLY inherent advantage vs. Sweden. Sweden has all the others with regard to pop density, working life, health of citizens, etc.

The presumption is that it's like the flu in this regard.

[ChumpDumper]

:cry No accounting for anomalies :cry

LOL Davdi Dump

Those aren't anomalies. The other countries have nursing homes too.

Why don't you what the elderly to count?

Show me your count without them in all the countries.

Or fold.

:lol davdiderp

[TSA]

States with Republican governors, yes, since he is the GOP. Even Trump's retarded rule about opening gyms of all places is a major part of our piece of shit governor Greg Abbott's early reopening plan. You obviously endorse the Sweden approach when you defend everything Trump on this site.

Find a post of me defending the Swedish approach and suggesting it for the US.

[DMC]

Your diffuse cynicism about the quality of reporting amounts to hand waving.

Why believe anything?

Do you believe the numbers out of China?

Statistical anomalies are called that for a reason.

[Spurtacular]

New York has a farther southern latitude, you fucking moron.

https://www.travelmath.com/cities/New+York,+NY

The latitude and longitude of New York, New York is:
40° 42' 51" N / 74° 0' 23" W

Stockholm, Sweden
Latitude and longitude coordinates are: 59° 20' 4.5276'' N, 18° 3' 47.6640'' E


Cherry pick fail. :lmao

https://chrystalovevintage.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/fail-meme.jpg

You didn't bother to look up the temps, did you?
:lol I assume you posted that meme to beat me to the punch.

[Spurtacular]

So setting aside your comically bad ignorance of basic geography, let's compare to peers, so that we can actually do some critical thinking for your lazy ass.

T


Sweden 10 M people
Finland 5.53M
Norway 5.4M

Since you are too fucking stupid to understand how to compare things, let me explain the math. I'll try to use small words.

Total cases really are practically meaningless.
What is more important is rate of infection per million people.

I will even do the math for you.
Norway:
7275/5.4M =1347
187/5.4M =34

Finland
4170/5.3M= 786
149/5.3M =28

Sweden
16755/10M= 1676
2021/10M= 202

Sweden has a higher infection rate, and its fatality rate is more than SIX TIMES higher than it's peers.

Take out the nursing homes that got hit and you'll see much closer numbers.
Sweden knew their numbers would be modestly higher. They also calculated that multiple shutdowns would decimate them.
Now clutch your pearls that they made choices that led to more people dying in the short run.

[ChumpDumper]

Take out the nursing homes that got hit and you'll see much closer numbers.
Sweden knew their numbers would be modestly higher. They also calculated that multiple shutdowns would decimate them.
Now clutch your pearls that they made choices that led to more people dying in the short run.

Show us your numbers, dunnodavdiderp

[baseline bum]

Find a post of me defending the Swedish approach and suggesting it for the US.

So you think Trump is fucking up right now? Pick a lane.

[TSA]

So you think Trump is fucking up right now? Pick a lane.

Trump isn't forcing states to open. Now find me a post of me defending the Swedish approach and suggesting it for the US. Or just join RandomGuy and pretend you didn't claim it.

[baseline bum]

Trump isn't forcing states to open. Now find me a post of me defending the Swedish approach and suggesting it for the US. Or just join RandomGuy and pretend you didn't claim it.

You're defending it right now. :lol

[TSA]

You're defending it right now. :lol

Saying we won't know if they made the right choice until it's over is defending them? You're better than this.

I live in the state that has been sheltering in place longer than anyone, have you seen me demanding it to be lifted every day? Have you seen me demanding all businesses be reopened every day?

[Winehole23]

Do you believe the numbers out of China?

Statistical anomalies are called that for a reason.Most people, myself included, express doubt about the Chinese figures. It's not an open society.

Do you believe or disbelieve reporting from South Korea?

[baseline bum]

Saying we won't know if they made the right choice until it's over is defending them? You're better than this.

I live in the state that has been sheltering in place longer than anyone, have you seen me demanding it to be lifted every day? Have you seen me demanding all businesses be reopened every day?

There is no way to know if Trump opening the nation up without testing and contact tracing is stupid?

[TSA]

There is no way to know if Trump opening the nation up without testing and contact tracing is stupid?

Trump isn't opening the nation up, and I see you've completely abandoned defending your original claims about me.

[monosylab1k]

Trump is forcing states to open? :lol

He’s siccing his braindead mob against any governors who dare question him.

[ChumpDumper]

Trump isn't opening the nation upThanks for reminding us he's refusing to lead.

[baseline bum]

Trump isn't opening the nation up, and I see you've completely abandoned defending your original claims about me.

What did I abandon? You're constantly defending Trump here. Either he is fucking up or he isn't. And he absolutely is opening the nation up, at least the red state nation, since he is the GOP and his governors fall in line with what he says. Which is why we have gyms getting ready to open in Texas, since they lobbied Trump and he ok'ed it despite it being the stupidest idea imaginable to have people breathing hard in a confined space sharing exercise equipment in the middle of a pandemic. Or more accurately, in the early stages of a pandemic.

[DMC]

Most people, myself included, express doubt about the Chinese figures. It's not an open society.

Do you believe or disbelieve reporting from South Korea?

As I said, reporting schemes vary from authority to authority. I don't believe something like COVID-19 can be simply stopped cold in its tracks short of a nuclear blast. I gave China as an example and you said I dismissed data with hand waving. All reporting has errors. Are you telling me that no South Koreans have come home infected, and that only 10K or so were actually infected? Have you ever been to South Korea?

https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/listeningpost/2020/04/numbers-lie-data-statistics-age-coronavirus-200411095112009.html

Decent video on the stats.

[baseline bum]

As I said, reporting schemes vary from authority to authority. I don't believe something like COVID-19 can be simply stopped cold in its tracks short of a nuclear blast. I gave China as an example and you said I dismissed data with hand waving. All reporting has errors. Are you telling me that no South Koreans have come home infected, and that only 10K or so were actually infected? Have you ever been to South Korea?

https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/listeningpost/2020/04/numbers-lie-data-statistics-age-coronavirus-200411095112009.html

Decent video on the stats.

So South Korea is disappearing all the bodies?

[ChumpDumper]

So South Korea is disappearing all the bodies?Nuclear epidemiologist DMC doesn't believe in a thing. South Korea has new cases every day. He's lying.

[DMC]

So South Korea is disappearing all the bodies?

What is China doing?

[DMC]

Nuclear epidemiologist DMC doesn't believe in a thing. South Korea has new cases every day. He's lying.

8 new cases yesterday in a country of 50 million people. Figures don't lie but liars figure.

[ChumpDumper]

What is China doing?DMC doing another backflip.

Dishonest.

[ChumpDumper]

8 new cases yesterday in a country of 50 million people. Figures don't lie but liars figure.It's impossible because you say it's impossible?

:lmao

[Winehole23]

Nuclear epidemiologist DMC doesn't believe in a thing. South Korea has new cases every day. He's lying.
Strawmanning it up. No one claimed there are no new cases or that reporting is perfect.

If there's reason to think South Korea is getting the death count wrong by a factor of 50 (to roughly equal ours on a per capita basis) I'd like to see it.

Underestimating caseloads seems to be the norm, but that cuts both ways: if SK has undercounted cases by a factor of ten, that underscores the quality of the care and the response.

[baseline bum]

What is China doing?

So you're saying South Korea is hiding say 7700 COVID-19 deaths?

[TSA]

What did I abandon? You're constantly defending Trump here. Either he is fucking up or he isn't. And he absolutely is opening the nation up, at least the red state nation, since he is the GOP and his governors fall in line with what he says. Which is why we have gyms getting ready to open in Texas, since they lobbied Trump and he ok'ed it despite it being the stupidest idea imaginable to have people breathing hard in a confined space sharing exercise equipment in the middle of a pandemic. Or more accurately, in the early stages of a pandemic.

You claimed I was defending the Swedish approach. I’ve already said how I’d like to see the country reopened and it’s nothing like the Swedish approach. You were full of shit.

[DMC]

So you're saying South Korea is hiding say 7700 COVID-19 deaths?

SK doesn't have the population China has. China is hiding much more by changing how they count the deaths and the cases.

Texas is approximately 678,052 sq km, while South Korea is approximately 99,720 sq km, making South Korea 14.71% the size of Texas. Meanwhile, the population of Texas is ~25.1 million people (26.0 million more people live in South Korea).

Population density is much higher in SK.

Texas has almost 600 deaths while SK has less than half that many.

If the stats seem suspicious I don't trust them.

These stats seem suspicious.

[ChumpDumper]

SK doesn't have the population China has. China is hiding much more by changing how they count the deaths and the cases.

Texas is approximately 678,052 sq km, while South Korea is approximately 99,720 sq km, making South Korea 14.71% the size of Texas. Meanwhile, the population of Texas is ~25.1 million people (26.0 million more people live in South Korea).

Population density is much higher in SK.

Texas has almost 600 deaths while SK has less than half that many.

If the stats seem suspicious I don't trust them.

These stats seem suspicious.Has South Korea done anything differently from Texas in response to the coronavirus?

[DMC]

Has South Korea done anything differently from Texas in response to the coronavirus?

With 50 million people and the fact that many if not most people who have the virus are asymptomatic?

I guess grits cook faster on their stove than any other stove in the world.

[baseline bum]

You claimed I was defending the Swedish approach. I’ve already said how I’d like to see the country reopened and it’s nothing like the Swedish approach. You were full of shit.

Is Trump fucking up or is he not fucking up opening restaurant dining rooms, gyms, movie theaters, etc? While saying he doesn't need testing to repoen the nation.

[ChumpDumper]

With 50 million people and the fact that many if not most people who have the virus are asymptomatic?

I guess grits cook faster on their stove than any other stove in the world.You keep trying to dodge questions by asking more questions.

You're being dishonest

Has South Korea done anything differently from Texas in response to the coronavirus?

[baseline bum]

SK doesn't have the population China has. China is hiding much more by changing how they count the deaths and the cases.

Texas is approximately 678,052 sq km, while South Korea is approximately 99,720 sq km, making South Korea 14.71% the size of Texas. Meanwhile, the population of Texas is ~25.1 million people (26.0 million more people live in South Korea).

Population density is much higher in SK.

Texas has almost 600 deaths while SK has less than half that many.

If the stats seem suspicious I don't trust them.

These stats seem suspicious.

So they're hiding say 7700 deaths since they had their first confirmed case when we did?

[RandomGuy]

Going to be fun watching you get proven wrong when Finland and Norway get RAVAGED by the second wave in the fall while Sweden is immune to the Chinese virus. :lol

Sweden will not have immunity by then. They will shut down and do what everybody else has done. It just took them far more deaths to get there. That is the only difference.

By the fall, their numbers will be a lot closer to their peers.

Going to be fun watching you try to find an explanation as to why your wishcasting will magically change the known behavior of an epidemic.

[RandomGuy]

Has South Korea done anything differently from Texas in response to the coronavirus?


With 50 million people and the fact that many if not most people who have the virus are asymptomatic?

I guess grits cook faster on their stove than any other stove in the world.

No-Take McGurk dodges a question with another question and then goes for the derision deflection. You never fail to disappoint.

[TSA]

Is Trump fucking up or is he not fucking up opening restaurant dining rooms, gyms, movie theaters, etc? While saying he doesn't need testing to repoen the nation.

Trump isn’t opening restaurant dining rooms, gyms, movie theaters etc. And you still haven’t shown that I ever defended or recommended the Swedish approach for the US, as you claimed.

[DMC]

So they're hiding say 7700 deaths since they had their first confirmed case when we did?

Where are you getting the 7700 death figure?

[baseline bum]

Trump isn’t opening restaurant dining rooms, gyms, movie theaters etc. And you still haven’t shown that I ever defended or recommended the Swedish approach for the US, as you claimed.

Yes he is. LOL at the thought he isn't the GOP. Close enough to the Swedish approach if we're racing to open gyms and dining rooms of all places. Sounds like casinos too. Only bars and schools closed. LOL there's no criteria for dropping from Phase 1 back to a Phase 0 when cases start increasing.

[baseline bum]

Where are you getting the 7700 death figure?

US per capita COVID-19 deaths times South Korean population since they officially got it the same day we did.

[DMC]

US per capita COVID-19 deaths times South Korean population since they officially got it the same day we did.

I am comparing SK with one of the best case scenarios - Texas. You believe SK has less than half the deaths Texas has with 2x the people in 14% of the land mass?

[baseline bum]

I am comparing SK with one of the best case scenarios - Texas. You believe SK has less than half the deaths Texas has with 2x the people in 14% of the land mass?

Yes I do.

[DMC]

Yes I do.

I don't. I also called China's data flat out lying long ago when some here were using them as a benchmark for how to deal with the virus. Not because China is dishonest (they are) but because their results are statistically impossible.

[baseline bum]

I don't.

Because doing nothing is as effective than immediate widespread testing and contact tracing?

[DMC]

Because doing nothing is as effective than immediate widespread testing and contact tracing?

Statistically improbable - not impossible like China, but I don't believe the numbers.

[DMC]

Also, would you be willing to allow the federal government to track you the way SK tracks its citizens? Contact tracing relies on participation. US cannot even keep kids from spring breaking at beaches.

[baseline bum]

Also, would you be willing to allow the federal government to track you the way SK tracks its citizens? Contact tracing relies on participation. US cannot even keep kids from spring breaking at beaches.

You're asking me to compare a government of responsible adults to one led by Trump and McConnell. It's like comparing apples to dildos.

[Chris]

"Someone said something on twitter! Grrrrr! Arggggh!"

[DMC]

You're asking me to compare a government of responsible adults to one led by Trump and McConnell. It's like comparing apples to dildos.

Would you be willing to have the type of society that South Korea has?

The spring breakers probably never voted in their lives and obviously no one is in charge of them.

[DMC]

Individual rights
See also: Freedom of religion in South Korea
See also: South Korean illegal surveillance incident
Every citizen over the age of 19 has the right to vote.

Official censorship is not in place.[citation needed] The National Security Law makes it a crime to express sympathies with North Korea, and though it is not consistently enforced, there are over 100 people imprisoned under it annually. A play about the Yodok political prison camp in North Korea has come under significant pressure from authorities to tone down its criticism and the producers have allegedly been threatened with prosecution under the security law.[4] Some conservative groups have complained that police keep a tight watch on their demonstrations and that some people were prevented from attending rallies.[5] Former Unification Minister Chung Dong-young was once accused of attempting to distract reporters from a meeting of activists for human rights in North Korea. Several established human rights organizations, however, have held lectures and exhibits critical of North Korea with no interference.[6]

Censorship is more notable in the media.[citation needed] Songs and theater play in Japanese language or relating to Japan are generally prohibited.[7] Despite the lifting of most regulations in 1996 and 1998 following a Constitutional Court ruling that they were illegal, scenes of extreme violence can be barred and pornography is forbidden from showing penetration of any kind, and genitals must be blurred out. Though technically legal, pornography must still meet some minimum standards of artistic integrity, which are not clearly written in the law.[8] In 1997 a human rights film festival was blocked and the organizers arrested for refusing to submit their films for pre-screening.[9] The government blocks access to North Korean websites and, sometimes, to major overseas web sites that host blogs.[citation needed] There is currently a debate over whether to revoke the ability to make anonymous comments online.[10]

Frank La Rue, The U.N. Special Rapporteur for Freedom of Opinion and Expression, announced that the government under the President Lee Myung-bak severely curtailed the freedom of expression in South Korea.[11][12]

Minority and immigrant rights
See also: LGBT rights in South Korea
South Korea, like Japan, is one of the most ethnically homogeneous countries in the world, and it is difficult for outsiders to be fully accepted.

The large population of workers from Southeast Asia, over half of whom are estimated to be in the country illegally, face considerable discrimination both in and out of the workplace.

This has led to the privately funded establishment of a school specifically targeted at children with an immigrated parent, with English and Korean as its main languages. When Hines Ward, who is of mixed Korean and African American heritage, earned MVP honors in Super Bowl XL, it sparked a debate in Korean society about the treatment mixed children receive.[13]

South Korea's still continuing traditionalist beliefs result in few people being open about their homosexuality. Homosexuality is discouraged, although homosexuality is legal in South Korea. As a result, there are few if any legal protections in place for gays and lesbians, and many of them are afraid to come out to their families, friends, and co-workers.[14] Gay men are not allowed to serve in the military, and in 2005 five soldiers were discharged for homosexuality.[15]



If the US could manage the population like South Korea does, we would be so much better off.

You cannot have the rain without having the wet.

[baseline bum]

Individual rights
See also: Freedom of religion in South Korea
See also: South Korean illegal surveillance incident
Every citizen over the age of 19 has the right to vote.

Official censorship is not in place.[citation needed] The National Security Law makes it a crime to express sympathies with North Korea, and though it is not consistently enforced, there are over 100 people imprisoned under it annually. A play about the Yodok political prison camp in North Korea has come under significant pressure from authorities to tone down its criticism and the producers have allegedly been threatened with prosecution under the security law.[4] Some conservative groups have complained that police keep a tight watch on their demonstrations and that some people were prevented from attending rallies.[5] Former Unification Minister Chung Dong-young was once accused of attempting to distract reporters from a meeting of activists for human rights in North Korea. Several established human rights organizations, however, have held lectures and exhibits critical of North Korea with no interference.[6]

Censorship is more notable in the media.[citation needed] Songs and theater play in Japanese language or relating to Japan are generally prohibited.[7] Despite the lifting of most regulations in 1996 and 1998 following a Constitutional Court ruling that they were illegal, scenes of extreme violence can be barred and pornography is forbidden from showing penetration of any kind, and genitals must be blurred out. Though technically legal, pornography must still meet some minimum standards of artistic integrity, which are not clearly written in the law.[8] In 1997 a human rights film festival was blocked and the organizers arrested for refusing to submit their films for pre-screening.[9] The government blocks access to North Korean websites and, sometimes, to major overseas web sites that host blogs.[citation needed] There is currently a debate over whether to revoke the ability to make anonymous comments online.[10]

Frank La Rue, The U.N. Special Rapporteur for Freedom of Opinion and Expression, announced that the government under the President Lee Myung-bak severely curtailed the freedom of expression in South Korea.[11][12]

Minority and immigrant rights
See also: LGBT rights in South Korea
South Korea, like Japan, is one of the most ethnically homogeneous countries in the world, and it is difficult for outsiders to be fully accepted.

The large population of workers from Southeast Asia, over half of whom are estimated to be in the country illegally, face considerable discrimination both in and out of the workplace.

This has led to the privately funded establishment of a school specifically targeted at children with an immigrated parent, with English and Korean as its main languages. When Hines Ward, who is of mixed Korean and African American heritage, earned MVP honors in Super Bowl XL, it sparked a debate in Korean society about the treatment mixed children receive.[13]

South Korea's still continuing traditionalist beliefs result in few people being open about their homosexuality. Homosexuality is discouraged, although homosexuality is legal in South Korea. As a result, there are few if any legal protections in place for gays and lesbians, and many of them are afraid to come out to their families, friends, and co-workers.[14] Gay men are not allowed to serve in the military, and in 2005 five soldiers were discharged for homosexuality.[15]



If the US could manage the population like South Korea does, we would be so much better off.

You cannot have the rain without having the wet.

Why do you copy+paste all this crap out when you just say they're lying about the death toll anyways?

[DMC]

Why do you copy+paste all this crap out when you just say they're lying about the death toll anyways?

Do you think a government that imprisons its own citizens for saying something in defense of NK is all about getting the truth out?

[baseline bum]

Do you think a government that imprisons its own citizens for saying something in defense of NK is all about getting the truth out?

Everyone's a lying piece of shit because Trump is. Gotcha.

[ChumpDumper]

Everyone's a lying piece of shit because Trump is. Gotcha.No, the Executive Branch is. No comment on Trump from DMC.

[DMC]

Everyone's a lying piece of shit because Trump is. Gotcha.

In one thread you got RG screaming "population density!" to differentiate Texas from NY but here in this thread you're ignoring population density.

You can map out the countries and see the statistical anomalies, they stand out like a turd in a punch bowl. Of course you can dismiss that because you hate Trump, that's your call. I won't.

[DMC]

No, the Executive Branch is. No comment on Trump from DMC.

You're one as well, as I have illustrated.

[baseline bum]

In one thread you got RG screaming "population density!" to differentiate Texas from NY but here in this thread you're ignoring population density.

You can map out the countries and see the statistical anomalies, they stand out like a turd in a punch bowl. Of course you can dismiss that because you hate Trump, that's your call. I won't.

You're ignoring South Korea's strong and fast mitigation efforts because you can't stand Trump getting any blame for fucking up. Instead you want to make up thousands of Korean dead out of thin air. It's fucking pathetic how far the 30% will go to normalize Trump.

[ChumpDumper]

You're one as well, as I have illustrated.I will allow for the possibility every government could be lying about numbers.

How are you saying ROK is hiding all the thousands of new cases and hundreds of dead bodies?

[DMC]

You're ignoring South Korea's strong and fast mitigation efforts because you can't stand Trump getting any blame for fucking up. Instead you want to make up thousands of Korean dead out of thin air. It's fucking pathetic how far the 30% will go to normalize Trump.

What of China's strong and fast mitigation efforts?

If you cannot question the stats unless they come from your own government, why even bring up South Korea? Obviously it's a touchy subject you're not willing to consider.

[DMC]

I will allow for the possibility every government could be lying about numbers.

How are you saying ROK is hiding all the thousands of new cases and hundreds of dead bodies?

Why would they need to hide them? Are you saying no one has died and been buried or cremated in SK? How is China hiding them?

[ChumpDumper]

Why would they need to hide them? Are you saying no one has died and been buried or cremated in SK? How is China hiding them?You're trying to answer my question with three questions. It's depressingly easy to make you do backflips these days.

How are you saying ROK is hiding all the thousands of new cases and hundreds of dead bodies?

[vy65]

The quality of South Korean healthcare has been ranked as being among the world's best. It had the OECD's highest colorectal cancer survival rate at 72.8%, significantly ahead of Denmark's 55.5% or the UK's 54.5%. It ranked second in cervical cancer survival rate at 76.8%, significantly ahead of Germany's 64.5% or the U.S. at 62.2%.[4] Hemorrhagic stroke 30 day in-hospital mortality per 100 hospital discharges was the OECD's third lowest at 13.7 deaths, which was almost twice as low as the U.S. at 22.3 or France's 24 deaths. For Ischemic stroke, it ranked second at 3.4 deaths, which was almost a third of Australia's 9.4 or Canada's 9.7 deaths. South Korean hospitals ranked 4th for MRI units per capita and 6th for CT scanners per capita in the OECD. It also had the OECD's second largest number of hospital beds per 1000 people at 9.56 beds, which was over triple that of Sweden's 2.71, Canada's 2.75, the UK's 2.95, or the U.S. at 3.05 beds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_South_Korea

[vy65]

But yah, it's probably a coverup

[baseline bum]

What of China's strong and fast mitigation efforts?

If you cannot question the stats unless they come from your own government, why even bring up South Korea? Obviously it's a touchy subject you're not willing to consider.

South Korea lied because you think they did. Airtight there.

[DMC]

You're trying to answer my question with three questions.

How are you saying ROK is hiding all the thousands of new cases and hundreds of dead bodies?

I don't need to show the route of deception to not believe the stats.

I didn't need to know how China was lying to not trust their sudden flat line either.

[DMC]

South Korea lied because you think they did. Airtight there.

I said I don't believe them. Obviously you do. I don't need to prove anything, the stats are suspicious.

[baseline bum]

I said I don't believe them. Obviously you do. I don't need to prove anything, the stats are suspicious.

The stats are suspicious because they're doing way better than America who spent two months calling it a Democratic hoax and ignoring it?

[DMC]

The quality of South Korean healthcare has been ranked as being among the world's best. It had the OECD's highest colorectal cancer survival rate at 72.8%, significantly ahead of Denmark's 55.5% or the UK's 54.5%. It ranked second in cervical cancer survival rate at 76.8%, significantly ahead of Germany's 64.5% or the U.S. at 62.2%.[4] Hemorrhagic stroke 30 day in-hospital mortality per 100 hospital discharges was the OECD's third lowest at 13.7 deaths, which was almost twice as low as the U.S. at 22.3 or France's 24 deaths. For Ischemic stroke, it ranked second at 3.4 deaths, which was almost a third of Australia's 9.4 or Canada's 9.7 deaths. South Korean hospitals ranked 4th for MRI units per capita and 6th for CT scanners per capita in the OECD. It also had the OECD's second largest number of hospital beds per 1000 people at 9.56 beds, which was over triple that of Sweden's 2.71, Canada's 2.75, the UK's 2.95, or the U.S. at 3.05 beds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_South_Korea

Look at Russia's 0.9% mortality rate while SK is at 2.2% Obviously Russia is knocking it out of the park. Singapore has 10K cases but only 12 fatalities.

Obviously the virus is xenophobic.

[DMC]

The stats are suspicious because they're doing way better than America who spent two months calling it a Democratic hoax and ignoring it? For a country that has 17K flu deaths a year, they sure got a fast handle on this one. Shouldn't have to worry about South Korea now.

You're reaching with the hyperbole btw. You should be able to mount a better case than that. Did New York consider it a hoax and are they run by the GOP? Weren't they all out rubbing elbows and smoking cigars and being told to go out and have fun? Who told them that, was it the GOP?

I don't recall.

How many dead in NY btw? Not many, it's a dem run state.

[baseline bum]

For a country that has 17K flu deaths a year, they sure got a fast handle on this one. Shouldn't have to worry about South Korea now.

You're reaching with the hyperbole btw. You should be able to mount a better case than that. Did New York consider it a hoax and are they run by the GOP? Weren't they all out rubbing elbows and smoking cigars and being told to go out and have fun? Who told them that, was it the GOP?

I don't recall.

How many dead in NY btw? Not many, it's a dem run state.

Get the fuck out of here talking about mounting cases when your case is "nuh uh" without any supporting evidence. :lmao

[Winehole23]

That's quite the smokescreen from DMC.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't need to show the route of deception to not believe the stats.

I didn't need to know how China was lying to not trust their sudden flat line either.I would never claim you know anything.

How do you think they're doing it?

[vy65]

Look at Russia's 0.9% mortality rate while SK is at 2.2% Obviously Russia is knocking it out of the park. Singapore has 10K cases but only 12 fatalities.

Obviously the virus is xenophobic.

So you're comparing Putin-led Russia and Jinping-led China to democratic South Korea (lol NK gag order) as a basis for saying SK's numbers or wrong?

I'd think the prior experience with SARs, having the best healthcare systems in the world, and having systems in place for dealing with the pandemic are responsible for Singapore and SK's low numbers. But yeah, compare SK to authoritarian government's that rely on misinformation to govern for a baseline. That's sound analysis right there :tu.

[DAF86]

Pretty much in 99% of the World, liberals and conservatives agree on the strict measures to fight COVID. US conservatives need to chill the fuck out, tbh.

[baseline bum]

Pretty much in 99% of the World, liberals and conservatives agree on the strict measures to fight COVID. US conservatives need to chill the fuck out, tbh.

US conservatives have gone off the fascist deep end ever since the scary negro got elected. Our conservatives have more in common with Middle East conservatives than conservatives of other western nations.

[pgardn]

Trump isn't opening the nation up, and I see you've completely abandoned defending your original claims about me.

See this is what you get from a lying orange fck sending mixed signals.
Applauding even cheering armed groups giving their States hell about opening up.
Leading by creating divisiveness does not work in these situations.
I will give him credit for smattering truth amongst the lies but that’s not helpful now.

He really needs to sit the fck down and let a press secretary take this on. But he can’t stand expertise in his world that he think makes him look bad. It’s too late, he has and continues to look like a fool.

[baseline bum]

See this is what you get from a lying orange fck sending mixed signals.
Applauding even cheering armed groups giving their States hell about opening up.
Leading by creating divisiveness does not work in these situations.
I will give him credit for smattering truth amongst the lies but that’s not helpful now.

He really needs to sit the fck down and let a press secretary take this on. But he can’t stand expertise in his world that he think makes him look bad. It’s too late, he has and continues to look like a fool.

Trump's Phase 1 is opening pretty much everything but schools and bars, and there seems to be no mechanism for rolling it back when caseloads increase. I still can't fucking believes gyms are going to be opened thanks to Trump. Bad enough restaurant dining rooms and movie theaters, but fucking gyms?

[ChumpDumper]

Trump's Phase 1 is opening pretty much everything but sports stadiums, schools, and bars, and there seems to be no mechanism for rolling it back when caseloads increase. I still can't fucking believes gyms are going to be opened thanks to Trump.Trump backed down from his "absolute authority" over the states at the very first opportunity. All it took was one southern bumpkin that wanted to kick low wage workers off unemployment.

[midnightpulp]

If DMC thinks South Korea and many other countries are underreporting, then it stands to reason the US is underreporting, as well.

[DarrinS]

Time will tell if Sweden made a good or bad choice. Took balls to go their route tho.

[Winehole23]

Time will tell if Sweden made a good or bad choice. Took balls to go their route tho.
More balls than brains it appears right now.

[DarrinS]

More balls than brains it appears right now.

Faster herd immunity and less economic destruction. We'll see.

[midnightpulp]

Faster herd immunity and less economic destruction. We'll see.

You can see the movement data and Sweden's movement isn't drastically different from countries with stay-at-home orders. They're basically locking down even if they're ordered to. But they're moving just a little bit more than countries with those orders, and that little bit more movement is translating into a much higher death rate. So they're not interacting enough to achieve herd immunity and not reducing movement enough to reduce the death toll. When you're dealing with potential exponential spread, every single person staying home matters.

[Winehole23]

Faster herd immunity and less economic destruction. We'll see.More magical thinking sounds like.

Are.you sure that's how herd immunity works? England is eating shit on that hypothesis too.

Lay it out for us, Profe.

[Winehole23]

Awful big gamble you're taking with people's lives. Many survivors will end up disabled. That'll be another drag on the economy.

[ChumpDumper]

Faster herd immunity and less economic destruction. We'll see.How many deaths would be worth it to you?

What are your metrics?

[DMC]

So you're comparing Putin-led Russia and Jinping-led China to democratic South Korea (lol NK gag order) as a basis for saying SK's numbers or wrong?

I'd think the prior experience with SARs, having the best healthcare systems in the world, and having systems in place for dealing with the pandemic are responsible for Singapore and SK's low numbers. But yeah, compare SK to authoritarian government's that rely on misinformation to govern for a baseline. That's sound analysis right there :tu.

I just look at the stats and the rest is fill in the blank.

So then the death rate only applies to people who aren't in Singapore or Russia. :tu

[DMC]

Awful big gamble you're taking with people's lives. Many survivors will end up disabled. That'll be another drag on the economy.

Nah, look at Russia and Singapore, they have a low deathrate overall and they haven't even considered those who are asymptomatic.

[vy65]

I just look at the stats and the rest is fill in the blank.

So then the death rate only applies to people who aren't in Singapore or Russia. :tu

Those stats aren’t truthful or reliable you fucking moron. This is simple shit, even for you.

[Winehole23]

Nah, look at Russia and Singapore, they have a low deathrate overall and they haven't even considered those who are asymptomatic.You don't know shit, actually. You're a really big bullshitter.

[DMC]

Those stats aren’t truthful or reliable you fucking moron. This is simple shit, even for you.

No shit moron. That's what I have been arguing.

[DMC]

You don't know shit, actually. You're a really big bullshitter.
You're just a frilly talker with nothing under the cork.

[DarrinS]

My people are brave.

[ChumpDumper]

My people are brave.My people are alive without sacrificing old and sick people.

[vy65]

No shit moron. That's what I have been arguing.

You're arguing that the reliability of stats from China and Russia is the same as the reliability of stats from SK because you can get fined for saying nice things about Kim Jong Un in Seoul. That's really fucking stupid.

[DMC]

You're arguing that the reliability of stats from China and Russia is the same as the reliability of stats from SK because you can get fined for saying nice things about Kim Jong Un in Seoul. That's really fucking stupid.

You're arguing the reliability of stats from Russia and China are inaccurate because you can be fined for speaking out against the government. That's really fucking stupid.

It's your level of trust vs mine, neither of us has one stitch of evidence to support it. You're using reports, but China also has reports. I'm using stats, but I don't know how they are compiled exactly. If you learn SK was lying, you're going to probably ignore it.

[vy65]

You're arguing the reliability of stats from Russia and China are inaccurate because you can be fined for speaking out against the government. That's really fucking stupid.

It's your level of trust vs mine, neither of us has one stitch of evidence to support it. You're using reports, but China also has reports. I'm using stats, but I don't know how they are compiled exactly. If you learn SK was lying, you're going to probably ignore it.

You're just making shit up. The inaccuracy (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/23/china-coronavirus-cases-might-have-been-four-times-official-figure-says-study) in China's numbers has been documented. I'm arguing the reliability of Chinese/Russian stats are inaccurate because those governments have not been reporting accurate numbers you fucking dolt. So it's not a "your word vs. mine" issue. Your wishcasting has gotten to be truly fucking desparate. Sad!

[RandomGuy]

Nah, look at Russia and Singapore, they have a low deathrate overall and they haven't even considered those who are asymptomatic.

Translation:

"I trust Russia's reported numbers"

Wow. Just... wow.

[RandomGuy]

I said I don't believe them. Obviously you do. I don't need to prove anything, the stats are suspicious.

Airtight circular logic there.

They are suspicious because they are lying. They are lying because they are suspcious.

:tu

[SnakeBoy]

If you learn SK was lying, you're going to probably ignore it.

It's pretty clear they are lying given what we now know about this virus and it's mode of transmission

[ChumpDumper]

It's pretty clear they are lying given what we now know about this virus and it's mode of transmissionIt's clear South Korea is lying about what?

[DMC]

You're just making shit up. The inaccuracy (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/23/china-coronavirus-cases-might-have-been-four-times-official-figure-says-study) in China's numbers has been documented. I'm arguing the reliability of Chinese/Russian stats are inaccurate because those governments have not been reporting accurate numbers you fucking dolt. So it's not a "your word vs. mine" issue. Your wishcasting has gotten to be truly fucking desparate. Sad!

https://i.imgur.com/yoOPWVK.jpg

[DMC]

Airtight circular logic there.

They are suspicious because they are lying. They are lying because they are suspcious.

:tu

You try so hard to be clever but even a child could see that you suspect someone of lying because the stats don't add up.

Spin that however you want.

[DMC]

Translation:

"I trust Russia's reported numbers"

Wow. Just... wow.
Sarcasm, dipshit.

[Spurtacular]

Translation:

"I trust Russia's reported numbers"

Wow. Just... wow.

:lol Can't trust the boogeyman Russia

[vy65]

https://i.imgur.com/yoOPWVK.jpg

Fascinating. Care you use your words?

[pgardn]

:lol Can't trust the boogeyman Russia

Says the guy worried about government having too much control.

Fckn idiot.
Did they democratically elect Donald Trump?
Would he ever get appointed by the party?

No and NO.

[DMC]

Fascinating. Care you use your words?

What do you get from it? Bet you could glance at it, I could remove all the country names and you could pick out SK and China easily.

[DMC]

Says the guy worried about government having too much control.

Fckn idiot.
Did they democratically elect Donald Trump?
Would he ever get appointed by the party?

No and NO.

Who and who?

Yes Trump was democratically elected.

Appointed by the GOP? How does that work exactly?

[vy65]

What do you get from it? Bet you could glance at it, I could remove all the country names and you could pick out SK and China easily.

This has dick to do with your point about South Korean "propaganda." You're trying to be oblique like WH and failing miserably.

[ElNono]

I can believe China fudging numbers, and even them had a difficult time hiding them when they had a 2nd wave... I can't think SK fudging numbers for long...

[DMC]

This has dick to do with your point about South Korean "propaganda." You're trying to be oblique like WH and failing miserably.

Are you really that fucking naive that you need to be handheld through this shit?

[RandomGuy]

:lol Can't trust the boogeyman Russia

No, you cannot.

:lol Spurtacular carr'ing water for Pootin now. Don't you have enough on your plate already?

[RandomGuy]

You try so hard to be clever but even a child could see that you suspect someone of lying because the stats don't add up.

Spin that however you want.

Nah. One has to look at how the stuff is compiled first. I would tend to trust democratic governments and give them the benefit of the doubt, before jumping to conclusions.

Fee free to offer some actual proof, then I will be more willing to accept the proposition.

[Spurtacular]

No, you cannot.

:lol Spurtacular carr'ing water for Pootin now. Don't you have enough on your plate already?

Do you remember in 2012 when Obama declared in a debate that The Cold War was over?

:lmao #AlwaysWithHer

[DMC]

Nah. One has to look at how the stuff is compiled first. I would tend to trust democratic governments and give them the benefit of the doubt, before jumping to conclusions.

Fee free to offer some actual proof, then I will be more willing to accept the proposition.

:lol except your own

I don't have any proof. I doubt I'll find any. If anything, the death records would be wrong in more rural areas. That's supposedly what Iran is doing, falsifying death records and supposedly China has a much larger issue than they've admitted to. I wouldn't be too shocked if Japan does as well, seeing how lax they treated it early on. The virus death count has become the marker for "great leadership" among news agencies and so these shithole countries like Iran feel pressure to hide the facts. I guess Allah laid that on their hearts right behind licking the fucking religious phallus.

It's amusing to read these leaders boasting that they don't care what the ROTW thinks then they lie about their own situation. US included.

[diego]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/29/swedish-city-lund-dump-tonne-chicken-manure-park-deter-visitors-coronavirus-lockdown

:lol

[TheGreatYacht]

WHO Changes COVID Tune, Now Says Sweden Had It Right & CDC "Suspends" Flu Reporting

https://youtu.be/KlKz_HyAiE4

[RandomGuy]

Do you remember in 2012 when Obama declared in a debate that The Cold War was over?

:lmao #AlwaysWithHer

#Obamawasadudedumbass

[RandomGuy]

Fee free to offer some actual proof, then I will be more willing to accept the proposition.


:lol except your own

I don't have any proof.

So you have no rational reason to accept it either. Yet you do.

Irrational.

QED.

[Spurtacular]

#Obamawasadudedumbass

So, was Obama right about the Russians? Or was Mitt right about the Russians?

[RandomGuy]

So, was Obama right about the Russians? Or was Mitt right about the Russians?

ODS

[Spurtacular]

ODS

Cop out.

So, was Obama right about the Russians? Or was Mitt right about the Russians?

[RandomGuy]

Cop out.

So, was Obama right about the Russians? Or was Mitt right about the Russians?

What did Obama say the Russians were injecting bleach to kill the 'Rona?

[DMC]

:lol except your own

I don't have any proof. I doubt I'll find any. If anything, the death records would be wrong in more rural areas. That's supposedly what Iran is doing, falsifying death records and supposedly China has a much larger issue than they've admitted to. I wouldn't be too shocked if Japan does as well, seeing how lax they treated it early on. The virus death count has become the marker for "great leadership" among news agencies and so these shithole countries like Iran feel pressure to hide the facts. I guess Allah laid that on their hearts right behind licking the fucking religious phallus.

It's amusing to read these leaders boasting that they don't care what the ROTW thinks then they lie about their own situation. US included.


So you have no rational reason to accept it either. Yet you do.

Irrational.

QED.

Dishonest dissecting of my response illustrates how challenged you are to form a decent response.

What convinces me isn't what I consider proof. Evidence isn't proof. It's just evidence.

[RandomGuy]

Dishonest dissecting of my response illustrates how challenged you are to form a decent response.

What convinces me isn't what I consider proof. Evidence isn't proof. It's just evidence.

You have a belief that something is true, without evidence to support that.

Didn't take it out of context, it was your words. Can't go back and understand it for you.

Irrational.

QED.

[DMC]

You have a belief that something is true, without evidence to support that.

Didn't take it out of context, it was your words. Can't go back and understand it for you.

Irrational.

QED.
Idiot, I have evidence. Evidence isn't proof. Don't make me school you on epistemology.

[Spurtacular]

What did Obama say the Russians were injecting bleach to kill the 'Rona?

Russians bad except when they're not. You don't get to bitch about them anymore; you can't own it.

[midnightpulp]

Sweden is doing much worse than their neighbors.

1256067670685999111

And they didn't "save the economy" vs. the others. Denmark's unemployment only went up by .2 percent.

[boutons_deux]

Denmark's unemployment only went up by .2 percent.

the govt is paying all the salaries to keep everybody on payrolls.

[RandomGuy]

Idiot, I have evidence. Evidence isn't proof. Don't make me school you on epistemology.

We have had this discussion before... de ja convo

[RandomGuy]

Russians bad except when they're not. You don't get to bitch about them anymore; you can't own it.

Russians are bad, based on their actions. At some point Putin turned on the West. Can't understand it for you.

[Spurtacular]

Russians are bad, based on their actions. At some point Putin turned on the West. Can't understand it for you.

:lol "at some point"
:lol RandomGoon

[boutons_deux]

At some point Putin turned on the West.

what? :lol When has Pootin ever been pro-West?

[RandomGuy]

Sweden is doing much worse than their neighbors.

1256067670685999111

And they didn't "save the economy" vs. the others. Denmark's unemployment only went up by .2 percent.

Pretty much.

[RandomGuy]

Saying we won't know if they made the right choice until it's over is defending them? You're better than this.

I live in the state that has been sheltering in place longer than anyone, have you seen me demanding it to be lifted every day? Have you seen me demanding all businesses be reopened every day?

Der Trumpenfuehrer has been.

Muh Sweden is locked down just like everybody else, but with higher infection and death rates than it neighbors who did shut down.

Jury came in while you were sucking Trumps dick.

[RandomGuy]

And one of the reasons I'm coming so hard at all the arguments to reopen the economy based on examples like Sweden, "cure is worse than the disease" logic, and such is because I find it morally reprehensible to force people back to work during a goddamn pandemic so that they can pay their bills and put food on the table when people like Jeff Bezos are making 40 billion in a month off of the pandemic and when Americans are collectively sitting on over a hundred trillion in assets.

I want these structural issues addressed that has resulted in our country not being able to care of our own during a time when they should be taken care of and not used as sacrificial lambs for the economy. And yes, there's enough out there to take care of those Americans who need it the most. This is also why essential workers are the biggest American heroes since World War II. Maybe in our total history. They, unfortunately, do have to work, just to keep society going. But an out-of-work bartender or hair stylist shouldn't be forced back into it to pay their bills.

This.

[RandomGuy]

All you have to do is start comparing Sweden to its neighbors. Higher and faster infection rate, with the inexorable higher death toll per capita.

Entirely predictable.

Looks like the jury has come back for even brainwashed morons like TSA


Making a comparison now is pretty pointless as we'll only see if Sweden's strategy worked if a second wave hits it's neighbors and Sweden avoids it.

No, not really. You have no fucking clue how long, or even if there will be such a thing as herd immunity from everybody getting the disease.

Meanwhile the entirely predictable result of the policy you think is the way to go:

Sweden has Europe's highest number of coronavirus deaths per capita over last 7 days
https://news.yahoo.com/sweden-europes-highest-number-coronavirus-162800845.html

[baseline bum]

And one of the reasons I'm coming so hard at all the arguments to reopen the economy based on examples like Sweden, "cure is worse than the disease" logic, and such is because I find it morally reprehensible to force people back to work during a goddamn pandemic so that they can pay their bills and put food on the table when people like Jeff Bezos are making 40 billion in a month off of the pandemic and when Americans are collectively sitting on over a hundred trillion in assets.

I want these structural issues addressed that has resulted in our country not being able to care of our own during a time when they should be taken care of and not used as sacrificial lambs for the economy. And yes, there's enough out there to take care of those Americans who need it the most. This is also why essential workers are the biggest American heroes since World War II. Maybe in our total history. They, unfortunately, do have to work, just to keep society going. But an out-of-work bartender or hair stylist shouldn't be forced back into it to pay their bills.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzHT-LKK2xY

[TSA]

No, not really. You have no fucking clue how long, or even if there will be such a thing as herd immunity from everybody getting the disease.

Meanwhile the entirely predictable result of the policy you think is the way to go:

Sweden has Europe's highest number of coronavirus deaths per capita over last 7 days
https://news.yahoo.com/sweden-europes-highest-number-coronavirus-162800845.html

I'm so in your head and have you so butthurt you have to resort to making up lies about my positions now :lol Find one single post where I said I think Sweden's policy is the way to go you pathetic liar.

"Over the course of the pandemic Sweden still has fewer deaths per capita than the United Kingdom, Spain, Italy, Belgium and France, which have all opted for lockdowns, but much higher than Nordic neighbours Denmark, Norway and Finland.

Sweden’s strategy, mostly based on voluntary measures regarding social distancing and basic hygiene, has been criticised by some as a dangerous experiment with peoples lives but also been put forward as a future model by the WHO.

Sweden’s open strategy seems to have softened the blow on the economy, with growth shrinking much less than in Denmark and Norway in the first quarter."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-sweden-casualties/sweden-tops-europe-covid-19-deaths-per-capita-over-last-seven-days-idUSKBN22V26A?il=0

Was it entirely predictable that Sweden's policy would result in fewer deaths per capita than it's fellow European countries who locked down like the UK, Spain, Italy, Belgium, and France?

[SnakeBoy]

No, not really. You have no fucking clue how long, or even if there will be such a thing as herd immunity from everybody getting the disease.

Meanwhile the entirely predictable result of the policy you think is the way to go:

Sweden has Europe's highest number of coronavirus deaths per capita over last 7 days
https://news.yahoo.com/sweden-europes-highest-number-coronavirus-162800845.html


Sweden, where COVID-19 deaths are declining overall

That said, Sweden has fewer deaths per capita during the full length of the pandemic than its fellow European countries like the United Kingdom, Spain, Italy, Belgium, and France, which instituted stricter lockdowns

[SnakeBoy]

No, not really. You have no fucking clue how long, or even if there will be such a thing as herd immunity from everybody getting the disease.


If herd immunity is not possible then there is no hope for a vaccine

[Trill Clinton]

And one of the reasons I'm coming so hard at all the arguments to reopen the economy based on examples like Sweden, "cure is worse than the disease" logic, and such is because I find it morally reprehensible to force people back to work during a goddamn pandemic so that they can pay their bills and put food on the table when people like Jeff Bezos are making 40 billion in a month off of the pandemic and when Americans are collectively sitting on over a hundred trillion in assets.

I want these structural issues addressed that has resulted in our country not being able to care of our own during a time when they should be taken care of and not used as sacrificial lambs for the economy. And yes, there's enough out there to take care of those Americans who need it the most. This is also why essential workers are the biggest American heroes since World War II. Maybe in our total history. They, unfortunately, do have to work, just to keep society going. But an out-of-work bartender or hair stylist shouldn't be forced back into it to pay their bills.


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BoilingSlipperyIberianemeraldlizard-size_restricted.gif

[DMC]

I'm so in your head and have you so butthurt you have to resort to making up lies about my positions now :lol Find one single post where I said I think Sweden's policy is the way to go you pathetic liar.

"Over the course of the pandemic Sweden still has fewer deaths per capita than the United Kingdom, Spain, Italy, Belgium and France, which have all opted for lockdowns, but much higher than Nordic neighbours Denmark, Norway and Finland.

Sweden’s strategy, mostly based on voluntary measures regarding social distancing and basic hygiene, has been criticised by some as a dangerous experiment with peoples lives but also been put forward as a future model by the WHO.

Sweden’s open strategy seems to have softened the blow on the economy, with growth shrinking much less than in Denmark and Norway in the first quarter."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-sweden-casualties/sweden-tops-europe-covid-19-deaths-per-capita-over-last-seven-days-idUSKBN22V26A?il=0

Was it entirely predictable that Sweden's policy would result in fewer deaths per capita than it's fellow European countries who locked down like the UK, Spain, Italy, Belgium, and France?

It's been well established that RandomGuy is not an honest broker. I don't know why you go back and forth with him. He doesn't have anything to offer you can't find on the same liberal website he's grabbing articles from.

[boutons_deux]

"I want these structural issues addressed" they won't

"as sacrificial lambs for the economy." that's the sadistic, predatory inhumanity of Capitalism

[spurraider21]

Do you believe the numbers out of China?

Statistical anomalies are called that for a reason.
the numbers out of the US, as a whole, aren't anomalous

could there be state by state, county by county discrepancies? i'm sure there are. but what level of precision in the data are you demanding before agreeing to shape policy after them? as a country, we have just over 94k deaths right now, over 1.5 million confirmed cases. even if those numbers were off by a quarter (and all in one direction), we'd still be looking at a situation with over a million cases and over 70k deaths.

[hater]

sweden going like a champ to steady 1,000 case a day and 100 dead a day

but but sweden :cry

[RandomGuy]

I'm so in your head and have you so butthurt you have to resort to making up lies about my positions now :lol Find one single post where I said I think Sweden's policy is the way to go you pathetic liar.

"Over the course of the pandemic Sweden still has fewer deaths per capita than the United Kingdom, Spain, Italy, Belgium and France, which have all opted for lockdowns, but much higher than Nordic neighbours Denmark, Norway and Finland.

Sweden’s strategy, mostly based on voluntary measures regarding social distancing and basic hygiene, has been criticised by some as a dangerous experiment with peoples lives but also been put forward as a future model by the WHO.

Sweden’s open strategy seems to have softened the blow on the economy, with growth shrinking much less than in Denmark and Norway in the first quarter."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-sweden-casualties/sweden-tops-europe-covid-19-deaths-per-capita-over-last-seven-days-idUSKBN22V26A?il=0

Was it entirely predictable that Sweden's policy would result in fewer deaths per capita than it's fellow European countries who locked down like the UK, Spain, Italy, Belgium, and France?

(shrugs)

If you don't think it is the way to go, then I was mistaken. Sorry.

As for comparisons, why are choosing to ask questions about non-scandinavian countries?

Would that not make for a better comparison?

[RandomGuy]

It's been well established that RandomGuy is not an honest broker. I don't know why you go back and forth with him. He doesn't have anything to offer you can't find on the same liberal website he's grabbing articles from.

From someone who lies about what other people believe on a consistent basis. :lol

[TSA]

(shrugs)

If you don't think it is the way to go, then I was mistaken. Sorry.

As for comparisons, why are choosing to ask questions about non-scandinavian countries?

Would that not make for a better comparison?

You ran in here to talk shit because of some butthurt I've caused you and you thought you had a gotcha on me. :lol

I'm asking questions about those countries because they were brought up in the article you linked. Why aren't you constantly harping on the policy decisions of the UK, Spain, Italy, Belgium, and France?

[tholdren]

You ran in here to talk shit because of some butthurt I've caused you and you thought you had a gotcha on me. :lol

I'm asking questions about those countries because they were brought up in the article you linked. Why aren't you constantly harping on the policy decisions of the UK, Spain, Italy, Belgium, and France?
Why would they do that? This way they can blame one person for all of their problems instead of using logic

Once the virus was out, it was out. International travel makes this type of problem almost uncontrollable. Pros and cons of progress.

Back to sweeden. These people also don't take into account shutdown ruining lives, satisfaction of life both for at risk and not at risk, nor physical or mental health. Every death is a win to them. Its sad.

[ChumpDumper]

Why would they do that? This way they can blame one person for all of their problems instead of using logic Logically speaking, why does South Korea have fewer cases and deaths per captia than the United States?

[tholdren]

Logically speaking, why does South Korea have fewer cases and deaths per captia than the United States?

Who knows. Not you. You just tried to explain that the spanish flu came from kansas

[ChumpDumper]

Who knows. This is not a logical answer. I'll let you try again.

Logically speaking, why does South Korea have fewer cases and deaths per captia than the United States?

[tholdren]

This is not a logical answer. I'll let you try again.

Logically speaking, why does South Korea have fewer cases and deaths per captia than the United States?
They aren't attributing death as a probable and using science?

[tholdren]

Why were all the models wrong and over exaggerated?

[ChumpDumper]

They aren't attributing death as a probable and using science?Answering a question with another question is not logical.

I'll give you another chance to answer logically since you're bragging about your logic.

Logically speaking, why does South Korea have fewer cases and deaths per captia than the United States?

[DMC]

the numbers out of the US, as a whole, aren't anomalous

could there be state by state, county by county discrepancies? i'm sure there are. but what level of precision in the data are you demanding before agreeing to shape policy after them? as a country, we have just over 94k deaths right now, over 1.5 million confirmed cases. even if those numbers were off by a quarter (and all in one direction), we'd still be looking at a situation with over a million cases and over 70k deaths.

Do you believe the numbers out of China? Do you really need all that yapping to answer?

[DMC]

From someone who lies about what other people believe on a consistent basis. :lol

You'll know them by their fruits

[DMC]

Answering a question with another question is not logical.

I'll give you another chance to answer logically since you're bragging about your logic.

Logically speaking, why does South Korea have fewer cases and deaths per captia than the United States?
Your question has nothing to do with logic. :lol idiot

[ChumpDumper]

Your question has nothing to do with logic. :lol idiotSure it does.

But whatever, I'll just ask you the question straight up.

Why does South Korea have fewer cases and deaths per captia than the United States?

Please refrain from your usual conspiracy theories.

[koriwhat]

And one of the reasons I'm coming so hard at all the arguments to reopen the economy based on examples like Sweden, "cure is worse than the disease" logic, and such is because I find it morally reprehensible to force people back to work during a goddamn pandemic so that they can pay their bills and put food on the table when people like Jeff Bezos are making 40 billion in a month off of the pandemic and when Americans are collectively sitting on over a hundred trillion in assets.

I want these structural issues addressed that has resulted in our country not being able to care of our own during a time when they should be taken care of and not used as sacrificial lambs for the economy. And yes, there's enough out there to take care of those Americans who need it the most. This is also why essential workers are the biggest American heroes since World War II. Maybe in our total history. They, unfortunately, do have to work, just to keep society going. But an out-of-work bartender or hair stylist shouldn't be forced back into it to pay their bills.

and this folks is the shit herd mentality!

btw, those you listed as "forced back into it" are not being forced at all and contrary to your belief they, like me, have been itching to get back to work!

stay home faggot!

[spurraider21]

Do you believe the numbers out of China? Do you really need all that yapping to answer?
their numbers dont appear reliable, because compared to the rest of the world, appear to be anomalous, and there were all sorts of documented concerns about their transparency through this entire process.

i dont think we need to gauge the reliability of China's numbers to determine what our policy should be here. it's just a red herring for the purpose of this discussion

[ChumpDumper]

their numbers dont appear reliable, because compared to the rest of the world, appear to be anomalous, and there were all sorts of documented concerns about their transparency through this entire process.

i dont think we need to gauge the reliability of China's numbers to determine what our policy should be here. it's just a red herring for the purpose of this discussionIt's the F1 level of his whataboutorando.

[DMC]

their numbers dont appear reliable, because compared to the rest of the world, appear to be anomalous, and there were all sorts of documented concerns about their transparency through this entire process.

i dont think we need to gauge the reliability of China's numbers to determine what our policy should be here. it's just a red herring for the purpose of this discussion

Your strawman aside, so you don't believe the numbers?

[koriwhat]

Your strawman aside, so you don't believe the numbers?

he's saying, "well yeah china lied but forget about their lies for a moment because ORANGE MAN BAD!"

SR is a fucking loser with a loser mentality who loves commies.

[DMC]

he's saying, "well yeah china lied but forget about their lies for a moment because ORANGE MAN BAD!"

SR is a fucking loser with a loser mentality who loves commies.

No he's playing lawyer, not saying anything about his belief but instead shifting the focus to a strawman about using China as a model. No one suggested doing so.

If you think something is suspect, you lack a belief in the veracity of the claim, and even moreso you have at least some disbelief of it. Admit it or not, that's how it goes.

I have no problem saying I don't believe China's numbers. I think China is lying. I think they stopped counting (or at least reporting the results) thus the sudden flatline. The R0 of the virus and the population density of these countries makes these sudden flatlines in results highly suspect.

[spurraider21]

Your strawman aside, so you don't believe the numbers?
already answered

their numbers dont appear reliable, because compared to the rest of the world, appear to be anomalous, and there were all sorts of documented concerns about their transparency through this entire process.

i dont think we need to gauge the reliability of China's numbers to determine what our policy should be here. it's just a red herring for the purpose of this discussion

[spurraider21]

he's saying, "well yeah china lied but forget about their lies for a moment because ORANGE MAN BAD!"

SR is a fucking loser with a loser mentality who loves commies.
no need to forget about China. China fucked up bad, deserve criticism, and probably heavy sanctions. they covered this thing up until it was too late, didnt allow other governments to test early samples, etc. they fucked a lot of countries over and they have blood on their hands

but the world doesnt stop moving just because China royally fucked up. there are things that could have been done better here, despite China's bad actions

[koriwhat]

no need to forget about China. China fucked up bad, deserve criticism, and probably heavy sanctions. they covered this thing up until it was too late, didnt allow other governments to test early samples, etc. they fucked a lot of countries over and they have blood on their hands

but the world doesnt stop moving just because China royally fucked up. there are things that could have been done better here, despite China's bad actions

I'll actually applaud your reply here SR.

[spurraider21]

I'll actually applaud your reply here SR.
i appreciate that but i'm not saying anything special or different.

i dont think you'll find a single poster here that doesnt place blame on China for their part in this.

[tholdren]

i appreciate that but i'm not saying anything special or different.

i dont think you'll find a single poster here that doesnt place blame on China for their part in this.

No chumpdumper says its all trumps fault. He thinks ny is cool because they have open wet markets just like china

[spurraider21]

No chumpdumper says its all trumps fault. He thinks ny is cool because they have open wet markets just like china

The wet markets where this virus came from are in China. I'm fine with shutting down every wet market in the world.

[spurraider21]

mean liberals: china fucked up

tholdren and kw: :tu

mean liberals: trump also could have done a lot more
tholdren and kw: WHY ARENT YOU BLAMING CHINA :madrun

[tholdren]

Keep scrolling you will find 2 things.
1. He didn't know ny had wet markets.....

2. He says since they are in ny they pose no risk

[tholdren]

mean liberals: china fucked up

tholdren and kw: :tu

mean liberals: trump also could have done a lot more
tholdren and kw: WHY ARENT YOU BLAMING CHINA :madrun

I will wait for you to post in context.... looks like Rebekah Jones pt 2

[hater]

:lmao :lmao Sweden

first herd immunity study just released yesterday. they claimed that would reach herd immunity by now at 60% infection rate.

the actual results are 7% infection thus far. Zero herd immunity

:lmao :lmao

fucking morons

https://twitter.com/aoubio/status/1263206403977641985?s=21



one of the mathematical experts who claimed herd immunity’s reaction:

“well, I guess I was way off “


:lmao


https://twitter.com/aoubio/status/1263208440215883777?s=21

[RandomGuy]

Keep scrolling you will find 2 things.
1. He didn't know ny had wet markets.....

2. He says since they are in ny they pose no risk

Wet markets per se are not the problem. The specifics of how animals are kept matters.

Why the fuck does this matter more to you than Trump fucking up the response? I assume this matters more, because you haven't really talked about how Trump fucked up the response.

[RandomGuy]

:lmao :lmao Sweden

first herd immunity study just released yesterday. they claimed that would reach herd immunity by now at 60% infection rate.

the actual results are 7% infection thus far. Zero herd immunity

:lmao :lmao

fucking morons

https://twitter.com/aoubio/status/1263206403977641985?s=21



one of the mathematical experts who claimed herd immunity’s reaction:

“well, I guess I was way off “


:lmao


https://twitter.com/aoubio/status/1263208440215883777?s=21

.0066*.6*330,000,000 = #1,306,800‬

That is about how many people will have died by the time 60% of the US population has contracted this disease.

[RandomGuy]

No chumpdumper says its all trumps fault. He thinks ny is cool because they have open wet markets just like china

I would be willing to bet a good deal of money he doesn't think that.

Why are you lying about what he believes?

[RandomGuy]

No he's playing lawyer, not saying anything about his belief but instead shifting the focus to a strawman about using China as a model. No one suggested doing so.

If you think something is suspect, you lack a belief in the veracity of the claim, and even moreso you have at least some disbelief of it. Admit it or not, that's how it goes.

I have no problem saying I don't believe China's numbers. I think China is lying. I think they stopped counting (or at least reporting the results) thus the sudden flatline. The R0 of the virus and the population density of these countries makes these sudden flatlines in results highly suspect.

You say that is if strawman arguments are bad.

Are strawman arguments bad?

[tholdren]

.0066*.6*330,000,000 = #1,306,800‬

That is about how many people will have died by the time 60% of the US population has contracted this disease.

Just like the 94 million who would die by April? Or the 200k per day? Or the ships that were needed in ny? Or all of the hospitals being overwhelmed everywhere? Why are you still on the hypothetical nonsense?

[RandomGuy]

You ran in here to talk shit because of some butthurt I've caused you and you thought you had a gotcha on me. :lol

I'm asking questions about those countries because they were brought up in the article you linked. Why aren't you constantly harping on the policy decisions of the UK, Spain, Italy, Belgium, and France?

Because conservatives pushing for Sweden as some sort of model. I am evaluating their arguments.

As for butthurt from you, not really. you overestimate your abilities on a consistant basis.

[DMC]

You say that is if strawman arguments are bad.

Are strawman arguments bad?

Your chump routine needs work. Go fuck your mother some more

[TimDunkem]

Just like the 94 million who would die by April? Or the 200k per day? Or the ships that were needed in ny? Or all of the hospitals being overwhelmed everywhere? Why are you still on the hypothetical nonsense?
Speaking of nonsense. Link?

[ChumpDumper]

Speaking of nonsense. Link?

I hurt him badly. All he can do is lie.

[ChumpDumper]

Speaking of nonsense. Link?

I hurt him badly. All he can do is lie.

[tholdren]

Speaking of nonsense. Link?

So sad.

[DMC]

The "link?" meme is random as fuck, and if you provided one it's likely no one uses it and just nay-says you repeatedly or sidesteps the issue. You misunderstood, because you don't get it. :lol

[TimDunkem]

So no one said 94 million dead by April? Got it.

[tholdren]

So no one said 94 million dead by April? Got it.
Well you're wrong. Per usual

[TimDunkem]

Well you're wrong. Per usual
Who said 94 million dead by April?

[hater]

So no one said 94 million dead by April? Got it.

:lol worldwide maybe

but in US? I dont think even CNN said it

[spurraider21]

The "link?" meme is random as fuck, and if you provided one it's likely no one uses it and just nay-says you repeatedly or sidesteps the issue. You misunderstood, because you don't get it. :lol
citing sources for claims is a meme?

[tholdren]

Who said 94 million dead by April?
You're an angry little guy

[spurraider21]

:lol worldwide maybe

but in US? I dont think even CNN said it
you called human extinction by now tbh :lol

[TimDunkem]

You're an angry little guy
Says the guy who can't answer a simple question without getting upset. Who said 94 mill dead by April?

[tholdren]

Says the guy who can't answer a simple question without getting upset. Who said 94 mill dead by April?

need more ships

[TimDunkem]

need more ships
So you're not going to answer?

[tholdren]

So you're not going to answer?

Need more models

[TimDunkem]

Need more models
Where's the one that said 94 million dead by April?

[tholdren]

Where's the one that said 94 million dead by April?
Lockdowns!

[hater]

you called human extinction by now tbh :lol

link?

[TimDunkem]

Lockdowns!
Really though. Who said 94 million dead by April?

[ChumpDumper]

:lol thildren is melting down again.

Too easy.

So sad.

[tholdren]

link?
Lol ask Tim dunkem. Beahahahaha

[ChumpDumper]

Lol ask Tim dunkem. BeahahahahaAt least he'll answer.

You just shit your pants.

Sad.

[TimDunkem]

Lol ask Tim dunkem. Beahahahaha
Why? I'm asking you. If someone said 94 million would be dead by April then just show us. Pretty simple.

[tholdren]

At least he'll answer.

You just shit your pants.

Sad.

remember when you said kansas flu. Hysterical

[ChumpDumper]

remember when you said kansas flu. HystericalDo you think all the lockdowns were totally unnecessary?

Yes or no.

[tholdren]

Do you think all the lockdowns were totally unnecessary?

Yes or no.
I can't talk to you about it. You are so wrong all the time. Kansas flu, models, more ships, don't know ny had wet markets.... don't you want to stop?