BREAKING: Another 4.4 million filed unemployment last week. 26.5 million in 5 weeks

[Trill Clinton]

1253300858923737089

1253302334748319747

1253301657187708929

[boutons_deux]

not enough PPP to compensate them for Trash's Man-Made Pandemic

not enough $600/week for 13 weeks, either

600 x 13 x let's say 20M = $156B. (worries Moscow Mitch about the debt)

tax break for "paper losses" for r/e investors in first stimulus bill? $170B ("no worries" for Moscow Mitch about the debt)

[DMC]

Doesn't matter. Choose A or B.

A) Reopen economy
B) Keep it closed for Covid

If you're gong to bitch about jobs, then bitch about someone wanting to reopen economy, you're just wanting to bitch.

[baseline bum]

Doesn't matter. Choose A or B.

A) Reopen economy
B) Keep it closed for Covid

If you're gong to bitch about jobs, then bitch about someone wanting to reopen economy, you're just wanting to bitch.

Bullshit, both are Trump's fault. Had he ramped up testing and contact tracing in January like South Korea did we could have kept the economy open like they have. They never had to shut down and their deaths per population are roughly 1/32 of ours.

[ducks]

Open it back up for most business
Some no most yes
End of issue

[DMC]

Bullshit, both are Trump's fault. Had he ramped up testing and contact tracing in January like South Korea did we could have kept the economy open like they have. They never had to shut down and their deaths per population are roughly 1/32 of ours.

Regardless who's fault it is, you have to do one or the other. Both have consequences.

[baseline bum]

Regardless who's fault it is, you have to do one or the other. Both have consequences.

You're cheerleading for open right now and fuck peoples' lives, correct?

[DMC]

You're cheerleading for open right now and fuck peoples' lives, correct?

No I think opening is a bad idea since we aren't as segregated as the state results have us believe. But with that comes the reality of being closed - joblessness for many.

[Winehole23]

Doesn't matter. Choose A or B.

A) Reopen economy
B) Keep it closed for Covid

If you're gong to bitch about jobs, then bitch about someone wanting to reopen economy, you're just wanting to bitch.False dilemma.

Public health officials broadly agree on a phased reopening based on roughly three factors:

-- Persistent declining caseloads (14 days straight)
-- the widespread availability of testing (est. three times
the present capacity)
-- contact tracing to contain subsequent outbreaks.

Supposing the USG does continue to seize testing materials, estimates that most parts of the country can start reopening in 1-3 months should be attainable.

Another reason the dilemma you pose is false is that declaring businesses open will not magically bring customers and workers back during a pandemic. The economy won't revive until people have confidence we have COVID-19 under control and that shopping and working are reasonably safe.

[DMC]

False dilemma.

Public health officials broadly agree on a phased reopening based on roughly three factors:

-- Persistent declining caseloads (14 days straight)
-- the widespread availability of testing (est. three times
the present capacity)
-- contact tracing to contain subsequent outbreaks.

Supposing the USG does continue to seize testing materials, estimates that most parts of the country can start reopening in 1-3 months should be attainable.

Another reason the dilemma you pose is false is that declaring businesses open will not magically bring customers and workers back during a pandemic. The economy won't revive until people have confidence we have COVID-19 under control and that shopping and working are reasonably safe.

You say "false dilemma" then give reopening as one of the options.

So what's the other options besides reopening and not reopening?

[Spurminator]

Doesn't matter. Choose A or B.

A) Reopen economy
B) Keep it closed for Covid

If you're gong to bitch about jobs, then bitch about someone wanting to reopen economy, you're just wanting to bitch.

C) UBI

[baseline bum]

False dilemma.

Public health officials broadly agree on a phased reopening based on roughly three factors:

-- Persistent declining caseloads (14 days straight)
-- the widespread availability of testing (est. three times
the present capacity)
-- contact tracing to contain subsequent outbreaks.

Supposing the USG does continue to seize testing materials, estimates that most parts of the country can start reopening in 1-3 months should be attainable.

Another reason the dilemma you pose is false is that declaring businesses open will not magically bring customers and workers back during a pandemic. The economy won't revive until people have confidence we have COVID-19 under control and that shopping and working are reasonably safe.

No shit. Who is going to movie theaters and sitting in restaurants in the middle of pandemic? Probably fucks restaurant owners and movie theater owners even more because now they won't be able to get business interruption insurance claims paid if they're able to open.

[Winehole23]

You say "false dilemma" then give reopening as one of the options.

So what's the other options besides reopening and not reopening?It's a false dilemma because your first option is a strawman, to my knowledge no one has proposed an indefinite lockdown; and because reopening is a hybrid process that partakes of lockdown and social distancing.

Another option is reclosing. It'll be the thing to do if COVID-19 re-flares and we can't contain it.

[baseline bum]

Another option is reclosing. It'll be the thing to do if COVID-19 re-flares and we can't contain it.

Why will it be the thing America does in that situation? Trump already got his corporate bailout.

[Winehole23]

Why will it be the thing America does in that situation? Trump already got his corporate bailout.To protect life and health, like we're doing now.

[baseline bum]

To protect life and health, like we're doing now.

Trump will just say the cure is worse than the disease, or whatever other quote he picks up on Fox News the night before.

[DMC]

C) UBI

UBI is a suggested treatment. Why would you need UBI if the economy was open?

What's the 3rd option.. you called it a false dilemma.

[DMC]

It's a false dilemma because your first option is a strawman, to my knowledge no one has proposed an indefinite lockdown; and because reopening is a hybrid process that partakes of lockdown and social distancing.

Another option is reclosing. It'll be the thing to do if COVID-19 re-flares and we can't contain it.

Phases of closing, phases of opening. Technically the economy is always partially open ergo always partially closed, but you're still tap dancing trying to find another option.

Open economy
Close economy

Doing either in stages doesn't change the fact they are still the two choices.

How is reclosing another option if it's currently closed? The thread is about job losses. How does anything you said avoid job losses?

If you're going to object, have a better defense.

[Winehole23]

Phases of closing, phases of opening. Technically the economy is always partially open ergo always partially closed, but you're still tap dancing trying to find another option.

Open economy
Close economy

Doing either in stages doesn't change the fact they are still the two choices.

How is reclosing another option if it's currently closed? The thread is about job losses. How does anything you said avoid job losses?

If you're going to object, have a better defense.
Now you're tap dancing and splitting hairs.

[DMC]

Now you're tap dancing and splitting hairs.

You were so certain about your "false dilemma" objection but have stammered in your responses and now you're off the road.

It should be easy to point out the other options but you chose UBI and partial opening.. then you said "reclosing".

Opening and closing. Two choices. UBI is only a payment.

[Xevious]

Open it back up for most business
Some no most yes
End of issue
Very insightful. That's exactly what we're already doing.

[Winehole23]

You were so certain about your "false dilemma" objection but have stammered in your responses and now you're off the road.

It should be easy to point out the other options but you chose UBI and partial opening.. then you said "reclosing".

Opening and closing. Two choices. UBI is only a payment.You can't keep your posters straight, I said nothing about UBI.

[DMC]

You can't keep your posters straight, I said nothing about UBI.

They way you lot interweave responses and jump in and out of discussions creates a bit of chaos so I apologize for that one.

But taking away that, you still offered open or close, in phases. That's the same choices I offered, open or close.

[DMC]

C) UBI

Sorry, that's not an option. No one is going to give you a base income for being you.

[LkrFan]

Open it back up for most business
Some no most yes
End of issue

Are you teleworking ducks?

[hater]

the options are not only 2 extremes “open” or “keep closed”

wake up

people can conduct most business and live close to a decent life if they adjust their lifestyles to the virus

masks, social distance, very few grouped people

adjust to the virus or die

those are the real options

[hater]

looks like Uncle Sam is not treating this crisis lightly as they have activated task force to evacuate Washingyon Dc area

https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-washington-dc-faces-coronavirus-spike-secret-military-task-force-prepares-secure-1498276?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1587045954

[hater]

life is not going back to normal

the sooner americans realize this the better. some will never realize this and will live a very slow painful death

[boutons_deux]

The man-made Trump Pandemic and its 45K+ deaths, 25M+ jobless, is still not bad enough for Trash's cult mob to abandon him.

[boutons_deux]

States that helped Trump win see biggest job lossesOne of the only major battlegrounds seeing a lower claims rate than the national average is Wisconsin,

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/23/states-that-helped-trump-win-see-biggest-job-losses-204072 (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/23/states-that-helped-trump-win-see-biggest-job-losses-204072)

[Winehole23]

You were so certain about your "false dilemma" objection but have stammered in your responses and now you're off the road.

It should be easy to point out the other options but you chose UBI and partial opening.. then you said "reclosing".

Opening and closing. Two choices. UBI is only a payment.It's not a one or the other proposition -- you proposed a false fork.

[baseline bum]

The man-made Trump Pandemic and its 45K+ deaths, 25M+ jobless, is still not bad enough for Trash's cult mob to abandon him.

We're about to hit 50,000 Trump victims, probably today.

[Splits]

We're about to hit 50,000 Trump victims, probably today.

Wasn't that 60k prediction by the Trump models supposed to be end of August?

[baseline bum]

Wasn't that 60k prediction by the Trump models supposed to be end of August?

Knew Trump was going to open the country without testing as soon as Fauci said 60,000.

[Splits]

Knew Trump was going to open the country without testing as soon as Fauci said 60,000.

All I know is the bleed out of this thing is ugly. US infected backlog means it could last months. Look at Italy's spike on March 27 and look where they are now. We're looking at minimum of next 3 weeks with ~1.5k/day deaths and who knows how long it will take to get it out of the system with 30k new infections a day with a 2-10 week period of recovery. Shit is looking brutal.

[DMC]

It's not a one or the other proposition -- you proposed a false fork.

You either are for reopening, whatever the rate, or you are not which is a zero reopening rate.

Open or close

There's your fork.

[baseline bum]

All I know is the bleed out of this thing is ugly. US infected backlog means it could last months. Look at Italy's spike on March 27 and look where they are now. We're looking at minimum of next 3 weeks with ~1.5k/day deaths and who knows how long it will take to get it out of the system with 30k new infections a day with a 2-10 week period of recovery. Shit is looking brutal.

And then we get to start over again May 1st.

[DMC]

the options are not only 2 extremes “open” or “keep closed”

wake up

people can conduct most business and live close to a decent life if they adjust their lifestyles to the virus

So leave it as it is now?


masks, social distance, very few grouped people

So reopen?


adjust to the virus or die

those are the real options
Everything you mentioned includes opening or remaining closed.

The methods and caveats do not create other options. The Spurminator throws out UBI which is unrelated.

:lol you folks have a hard time with facts.

[DMC]

looks like Uncle Sam is not treating this crisis lightly as they have activated task force to evacuate Washingyon Dc area

https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-washington-dc-faces-coronavirus-spike-secret-military-task-force-prepares-secure-1498276?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1587045954

You're a fucking clown but this we already know.

[DMC]

States that helped Trump win see biggest job lossesOne of the only major battlegrounds seeing a lower claims rate than the national average is Wisconsin,

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/23/states-that-helped-trump-win-see-biggest-job-losses-204072 (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/23/states-that-helped-trump-win-see-biggest-job-losses-204072)

But wait, Trump is only helping states that he won, right?

Another clown.

November isn't going away, boots. Strap yourself in and load your bullshit article and takes magazine and set to full auto.

[RandomGuy]

All I know is the bleed out of this thing is ugly. US infected backlog means it could last months. Look at Italy's spike on March 27 and look where they are now. We're looking at minimum of next 3 weeks with ~1.5k/day deaths and who knows how long it will take to get it out of the system with 30k new infections a day with a 2-10 week period of recovery. Shit is looking brutal.

Given that Trump Death Cult governors like in Texas want to rush into opening... Ima guess that the figures flatten out as some areas scale back, and others flare up. Kind of inexorable.

[baseline bum]

Given that Trump Death Cult governors like in Texas want to rush into opening... Ima guess that the figures flatten out as some areas scale back, and others flare up. Kind of inexorable.

Fucking gyms opening. Where people are breathing hard on the treadmill, the stationary bikes, the bench press, etc in closed off buildings. All because Abbott can't stand up to our Dear Leader's shitty recommendation.

[Winehole23]

You either are for reopening, whatever the rate, or you are not which is a zero reopening rate.

Open or close

There's your fork.Yeah, seems you're still unaware of the logical meaning of "or" and the blended nature of reopening.

No skin off my back if you don't get it.

[RandomGuy]

You either are for reopening, whatever the rate, or you are not which is a zero reopening rate.

Open or close

There's your fork.

Open defined as "any state not closed"

Closed being 100% closed.

"it's either open or closed" hur dee fucking dur.

No-take McGurk goes for the ultimate no-take Captain Obvious observation.

Don't strain yourself-geenyus.

[DMC]

Yeah, seems you're still unaware of the logical meaning of "or" and the blended nature of reopening.

No skin off my back if you don't get it.

Open = not closed.

[RandomGuy]

Doesn't matter. Choose A or B.

A) Reopen economy
B) Keep it closed for Covid

If you're gong to bitch about jobs, then bitch about someone wanting to reopen economy, you're just wanting to bitch.


False dilemma.




You say "false dilemma" then give reopening as one of the options.

So what's the other options besides reopening and not reopening?


Ireopening is a hybrid process that partakes of lockdown and social distancing.

And here's the walkback:


Phases of closing, phases of opening. Technically the economy is always partially open ergo always partially closed, but you're still tap dancing trying to find another option.

Open economy
Close economy

Doing either in stages doesn't change the fact they are still the two choices.

Your original statement didn't allow for any anything outside of the binary choice. You got called on it, realized that you misspoke and attempted to gaslight WH into thinking you meant what you didn't actually say all along.

All the while, saying fuck-all nothing, per par. "open or closed, hurr dee dur"

[DMC]

Open defined as "any state not closed"

Closed being 100% closed.

"it's either open or closed" hur dee fucking dur.

No-take McGurk goes for the ultimate no-take Captain Obvious observation.

Don't strain yourself-geenyus.

If you think we are closed now even though many are still working, you've already set the conditions so by saying "reopen" you've basically done that. If you want to stand pat how we are now, then you're accepting the fallout from it (job loss). If you think we should find ways to reopen economy, masks, gloves, fucking class 1 pos pressure suits, etc... then you're for reopening.

This distraction about gradient is just that, a distraction. You're playing semantics now.

[DMC]

And here's the walkback:



Your original statement didn't allow for any anything outside of the binary choice. You got called on it, realized that you misspoke and attempted to gaslight WH into thinking you meant what you didn't actually say all along.

All the while, saying fuck-all nothing, per par. "open or closed, hurr dee dur"

In that case we cannot reopen since we've never closed.

See how fucking stupid I can easily reveal you to be?

[DMC]

Given that Trump Death Cult governors like in Texas want to rush into opening... Ima guess that the figures flatten out as some areas scale back, and others flare up. Kind of inexorable.

Texas 600 or so deaths

NY with Cuomo, 20,000+ deaths


Yeah death cult for sure. :lol

[RandomGuy]

If you think we are closed now even though many are still working, you've already set the conditions so by saying "reopen" you've basically done that. If you want to stand pat how we are now, then you're accepting the fallout from it (job loss). If you think we should find ways to reopen economy, masks, gloves, fucking class 1 pos pressure suits, etc... then you're for reopening.

This distraction about gradient is just that, a distraction. You're playing semantics now.

We will eventually have to be opened more than we are now. Job losses will come from re-opening just as sure as from staying shut, with some indication that rapid reopening would be worse for the economy than staying closed a while longer.

In attempting to walk back from your first false dilemma



A) Reopen economy
B) Keep it closed for Covid

You introduce a second one with a buried assumption for which you have no evidence:

Closed = job losses
fully open = no job losses

How have you excluded the possibility that:

Closed = job losses
fully open = more job losses than closed

?????

[RandomGuy]

Texas 600 or so deaths

NY with Cuomo, 20,000+ deaths


Yeah death cult for sure. :lol

Translation:

"I think two states with different population densities and at different stages of the epidemic are comparable"

That is a take, I am surprised.

Too bad it is a shit take. But hey, fun to see you try for once.

[DMC]

Translation:

"I think two states with different population densities and at different stages of the epidemic are comparable"

That is a take, I am surprised.

Too bad it is a shit take. But hey, fun to see you try for once.

Oh so now it's about population density, not the governor.

20K people die and you 're all "Trump killed them!"

I point out Cuomo and you're all "Population density!"

Texas gov wants to open businesses and you're all "death cult governor!"

Dunning-Kruger if I ever saw it.

Just admit you got your shit pushed in on det one...

[Spurminator]

Sorry, that's not an option. No one is going to give you a base income for being you.

It's not an option you chose to include in your deliberately limited spectrum, but it's an option.

A strong UBI offsets the need for unemployment payments and helps business owners as well. We haven't done enough, and that's why, yes, it's okay to bitch about unemployment numbers while also wanting to keep separation guidelines in place.

[DMC]

It's not an option you chose to include in your deliberately limited spectrum, but it's an option.

A strong UBI offsets the need for unemployment payments and helps business owners as well.
Bernie conceded already.

UBI is a red herring, nothing to do with whether or not to reopen economy.

[Spurminator]

Opened or closed, the UBI would still be the UBI. It's a side note, not a condition of the economy.

Whether you call UBI unemployment or not, its still coming from the taxpayer who, if they aren't working, cannot pay taxes.

:lol So now we can't pay for things we haven't collected tax money for yet?

I have some news for you.

[DMC]

:lol So now we can't pay for things we haven't collected tax money for yet?

I have some news for you.

What's the difference between UBI and unemployment? Oh I know, everyone gets UBI...no need to pay in or work!

There's a reason Sanders isn't the dem nominee.

[Spurminator]

What's the difference between UBI and unemployment? Oh I know, everyone gets UBI...no need to pay in or work!

There's a reason Sanders isn't the dem nominee.

I'm not suggesting permanent UBI.

[TeyshaBlue]

I'm concerned with the notion that somehow things will return to normal. We are in the middle of a cascading events the results of which we have no idea. There are other shoes to fall, such as a collapse of our financial systems, I'm afraid. Also, TANSTAAFL....there aint no such thing as a free lunch and there's a payment to be rendered by someone (s).

[spurraider21]

I'm concerned with the notion that somehow things will return to normal. We are in the middle of a cascading events the results of which we have no idea. There are other shoes to fall, such as a collapse of our financial systems, I'm afraid. Also, TANSTAAFL....there aint no such thing as a free lunch and there's a payment to be rendered by someone (s).
yep. right now CA civil courts are closed with the exception of emergency restraining orders, etc. and sure, people are talking about when courts will reopen, but there's also the concern of how they'll be able to resume jury trials. will a judge be willing to sit at a bench 25 feet away from some attorneys on some motion? sure. but are 12 jurors going to want to sit in a box next to each other for a week? fuck no.

are movie theaters going to start filling up once they reopen? fuck no.

[Winehole23]

yep. right now CA civil courts are closed with the exception of emergency restraining orders, etc. and sure, people are talking about when courts will reopen, but there's also the concern of how they'll be able to resume jury trials. will a judge be willing to sit at a bench 25 feet away from some attorneys on some motion? sure. but are 12 jurors going to want to sit in a box next to each other for a week? fuck no.

are movie theaters going to start filling up once they reopen? fuck no.The pandemic is the economy killer. Until it's under control, and people start to feel safer, customers and workers won't really come back. Declaring cities and states open for business won't do the trick.

[DMC]

I'm not suggesting permanent UBI.

Oh so just unemployment.

So the economy wouldn't be open or closed, just UBI'd? how does UBI become the 3rd option again?

[DMC]

Soon as they say it can open people will come back. People are disobeying the shelter at home orders in droves already.

[ElNono]

Oh so just unemployment.

So the economy wouldn't be open or closed, just UBI'd? how does UBI become the 3rd option again?

I think he's suggesting something akin to the administration checks sent earlier, just for a number of months. I would think that case pertains to keeping the economy generally closed for non-essential people.

[DMC]

I think he's suggesting something akin to the administration checks sent earlier, just for a number of months. I would think that case pertains to keeping the economy generally closed for non-essential people.

So not a 3rd option.

[slick'81]

The pandemic is the economy killer. Until it's under control, and people start to feel safer, customers and workers won't really come back. Declaring cities and states open for business won't do the trick.


I think you underestimate how stupid people are

[boutons_deux]

"Looking forward, we estimate

Unemployment Rate ...

19.00% in 12 months time. In the long-term,

projected to trend around 15.00% percent in 2021 and

12.90% percent in 2022"

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/unemployment-rate (https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/unemployment-rate)

the Trash Pandemic, 100% Trash-made, has Pootin laughing his ass off at how his puppet has exceeded all expectatons, as America buggers itself and buggers itself before the world

Steve "Lux Luthor" Bannon is exstatic at the "destruction of the administrative state"

[Spurminator]

Oh so just unemployment.

So the economy wouldn't be open or closed, just UBI'd? how does UBI become the 3rd option again?

You proposed two options to create a false dilemma (there, I did say it this time) where one cannot bitch about unemployment if he feels the economy should remain closed to nonessential business. This seemed to be your larger point, and is what I was addressing.

Yes, UBI falls more under your (B) option. But neither A nor B is a good option at this point because we haven't addressed the root issues for either.

[DMC]

You proposed two options to create a false dilemma (there, I did say it this time) where one cannot bitch about unemployment if he feels the economy should remain closed to nonessential business. This seemed to be your larger point, and is what I was addressing.

Yes, UBI falls more under your (B) option. But neither A nor B is a good option at this point because we haven't addressed the root issues for either.

You said C) UBI

I get it you don't like the two choices, but you didn't offer a 3rd one yet you're still calling it a false dilemma.

[DMC]

I think you underestimate how stupid people are

You come along and remind everyone.

[elbamba1]

I think you underestimate how stupid people are

I think stupid is too strong of a word. I think people are willing to examine the risk and then make a decision based on what information we have regarding the virus and chances of infection. Living in San Antonio, I feel very different about the virus than if I were to live in New York City.

If my office were to open up, I would go back today. I would still practice social distancing and I would offer up to my staff the ability to continue working from home if they are uncomfortable or worried.

[RandomGuy]

Oh so now it's about population density, not the governor.

20K people die and you 're all "Trump killed them!"

I point out Cuomo and you're all "Population density!"

Texas gov wants to open businesses and you're all "death cult governor!"

Dunning-Kruger if I ever saw it.

Just admit you got your shit pushed in on det one...

(facepalm)

Dude... just, stop.

It is a little sad and I am embarrassed for you.

You tried to have a take, and it didn't work. Spiking the ball in your own end zone.

smh

[RandomGuy]

I think you underestimate how stupid people are

Yes, Trump Actually Suggested Injecting Disinfectants Into Your Veins Could Cure Coronavirus
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/04/trump-actually-suggests-injecting-disinfectants-could-cure-coronavirus

I think we have all underestimated how stupid some people are.

[RandomGuy]

I think stupid is too strong of a word. I think people are willing to examine the risk and then make a decision based on what information we have regarding the virus and chances of infection. Living in San Antonio, I feel very different about the virus than if I were to live in New York City.

If my office were to open up, I would go back today. I would still practice social distancing and I would offer up to my staff the ability to continue working from home if they are uncomfortable or worried.

I think a lot more are waiting for Trump and Fox "fake news" to tell them what to think, evidence be damned. The protests are very symtomatic of that. Not all right wingers are so rabidly stupid and brainwashed as to want to attend protests to open everything up, but tens of millions of people in this country actively support it.

[baseline bum]

I think stupid is too strong of a word. I think people are willing to examine the risk and then make a decision based on what information we have regarding the virus and chances of infection. Living in San Antonio, I feel very different about the virus than if I were to live in New York City.

If my office were to open up, I would go back today. I would still practice social distancing and I would offer up to my staff the ability to continue working from home if they are uncomfortable or worried.

Exponential growth is super slow early on and then just blows up to hell. Add an incubation time of up to two weeks for this virus and that's a lot of time to be seeding an enormous disaster when it doesn't look very bad. If your staff can work from home please mandate they do.

[slick'81]

You come along and remind everyone.


If the shoe fits.

[Bleke]

Biden will save us.

[DMC]

If the shoe fits.

Let me know I have the other one :lol

[elbamba1]

Exponential growth is super slow early on and then just blows up to hell. Add an incubation time of up to two weeks for this virus and that's a lot of time to be seeding an enormous disaster when it doesn't look very bad. If your staff can work from home please mandate they do.

We won't rush into any decisions. We have been able to weather the storm to this point but we employ close to 50 people in our office and our work directly impacts the employment of several thousand people. We have not cut salaries or laid anyone off to date and we could probably carry on for another 3 - 4 months like this but at some point that will change. I'm not saying you are wrong, just that there are no easy decisions when you start to consider some of the additional ramifications. One of my biggest concerns with the unemployment levels is that you are going to see people lose their health care coverage, and that will lead to more death. Sucky situation all around.

[boutons_deux]

US unemployment rate approaches 20%, economists say

Last week's 4.4 million new unemployment claims

don't account for the backlog that has yet to be processed

At this rate, 2020 is predicted to exceed historically horrific full-year unemployment totals.

That includes 1982, when unemployment reached 30.4 million, and

2009, when it reached 29.8 million.

"This is due to the fact that jobless workers are only counted as unemployed if they are actively seeking work,"

"That means many workers who lose their job as a result of the virus will be

counted as dropping out of the labor force instead of as unemployed,

because they are unable to search for work due to the lockdown."

https://www.salon.com/2020/04/23/us-unemployment-rate-approaches-20-economists-say/ (https://www.salon.com/2020/04/23/us-unemployment-rate-approaches-20-economists-say/)

[Spurminator]

You said C) UBI

I get it you don't like the two choices, but you didn't offer a 3rd one yet you're still calling it a false dilemma.

I already explained that. You're continuing to pretend the second part of your post never happened.

[ElNono]

So not a 3rd option.

Well, there's clearly more than a binary choice. You can open fully, you can open with certain precautions, you can keep it closed with no assistance, keep it closed with assistance, etc.

[boutons_deux]

https://www.dcreport.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Weekly-unemployment-claims-TPC-1024x615.png

[daslicer]

US unemployment rate approaches 20%, economists say

Last week's 4.4 million new unemployment claims

don't account for the backlog that has yet to be processed

At this rate, 2020 is predicted to exceed historically horrific full-year unemployment totals.

That includes 1982, when unemployment reached 30.4 million, and

2009, when it reached 29.8 million.

"This is due to the fact that jobless workers are only counted as unemployed if they are actively seeking work,"

"That means many workers who lose their job as a result of the virus will be

counted as dropping out of the labor force instead of as unemployed,

because they are unable to search for work due to the lockdown."

https://www.salon.com/2020/04/23/us-unemployment-rate-approaches-20-economists-say/ (https://www.salon.com/2020/04/23/us-unemployment-rate-approaches-20-economists-say/)



So in other words they are going to fudge the numbers to make it look like unemployment is 10-15 percent when in reality it's 20-30 percent.

[boutons_deux]

30% seems achievable, and the states re-opening will help

[DMC]

I already explained that. You're continuing to pretend the second part of your post never happened.

No, you offered it as a 3rd option, then above you say it's part of B.

[DMC]

Well, there's clearly more than a binary choice. You can open fully, you can open with certain precautions, you can keep it closed with no assistance, keep it closed with assistance, etc.

At the level we're talking about "reopening the economy" then there's not. It's yes or no. Of course there are stages of being open, and in fact there's one spectrum from completely open to completely closed, and everything in between, but I didn't manufacture the term "reopen" in this context. So if the the economy stays how it is, it remains closed (option 1). If businesses begin to reopen (there's that word), it doesn't remain closed (option 2). Gradients of those are purely for argument.

[ChumpDumper]

Since the economy is not fully closed, we're just talking different degrees of further opening.

I guess we can make it a semantic argument for individual businesses if we want to stay in the weeds.

[Winehole23]

https://www.dcreport.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Weekly-unemployment-claims-TPC-1024x615.pngReopening won't avert a depression. If we're not already in one, we will be within a couple of months.

[boutons_deux]

Reopening won't avert a depression. If we're not already in one, we will be within a couple of months.

Like China, USA will have actual economic contraction, reduction in GDP.

1st time that has happened to China is 50 years.

and Moscow's little Bitch McC has every intention of making it worse and keeping it bad, because the cure of "counter-cyclical" govt spending worse than the disease of govt debt.

Multi-millionaire Bitch being personally immune, unaffected by the cure or the disease.

[Winehole23]

Like China, USA will have actual economic contraction, reduction in GDP.

1st time that has happened to China is 50 years.

and Moscow's little Bitch McC has every intention of making it worse and keeping it bad, because the cure of "counter-cyclical" govt spending worse than the disease of govt debt. Not sure what you mean. In the debt deflation scenario, public spending is the only thing that can replace lost demand. The Keynesian view is that running up the debt in a depression softens and shortens it, where'd you get the idea that spending in a depression is worse than the depression itself?

If you meant to say that running up the debt in a bull market -- like DJT has done the last four years, you might have a leg to stand on -- but that's *not* counter-cyclical spending.

Can you clarify?

[baseline bum]

Reopening won't avert a depression. If we're not already in one, we will be within a couple of months.

God if I have to hear one more time how the fundamentals of this economy were strong until COVID. Yeah so strong middle class government workers were in food lines during Trump's government shutdown and housing prices have joined out of control healthcare and educational costs to completely fuck the middle and lower classes even further. But Trump's tax giveaway propped the Dow Jones up with stock buybacks so all was great.

[Winehole23]

God if I have to hear one more time how the fundamentals of this economy were strong until COVID. Yeah so strong middle class government workers were in food lines during Trump's government shutdown and housing prices have joined out of control healthcare and educational costs to completely fuck the middle and low classes even further. But Trump's tax giveaway propped the Dow Jones up with stock buybacks so all was great.No buffers, no guardrails, shitty health care, low wages, high indebtedness, no provision for a rainy day. Financialization of the economy has sucked us dry.

US has been playing it way too close to the edge. The proof is what we're going through now

[boutons_deux]

Not sure what you mean. In the debt deflation scenario, public spending is the only thing that can replace lost demand. The Keynesian view is that running up the debt in a depression softens and shortens it, where'd you get the idea that spending in a depression is worse than the depression itself?

If you meant to say that running up the debt in a bull market -- like DJT has done the last four years, you might have a leg to stand on -- but that's *not* counter-cyclical spending.

Can you clarify?

I said nothing about a stock market

If there was ever a time for Keynesian govt counter-cyclical spending, it's now. Deficit and national debt be damned.

Bitch Mitch and Repugs are maximizing the enrichment of the oligarchy by $100Bs, NOT counter-cyclical spending. Bitch says no more spending at least until 4 May, by then 1000s of companies will have folded, and many Ms of jobs lost.

Repugs, the oligarchy, Capitalists don't care about human life, human lives, the environment. The only priority is amassing more Capital as a means to more more power to amassing more Capital, ad finitum.

Repugs have NO reticence in pushing the debt well over $20T by cutting taxes (starving the beast) on the oligarchy.

When the non-oligarchy needs govt help, the Repugs say no help because of the national debt.

And course the corruption and fraud by the oligarchy essentially stealing the pandemic spending was enabled by the Repugs, while Dems stood by in effective silent complicity.

[CosmicCowboy]

This is the perfect time to throw a few trillion at infrastructure while they can borrow at almost 0 interest rate

[Winehole23]

This is the perfect time to throw a few trillion at infrastructure while they can borrow at almost 0 interest rate:tu

[FrostKing]

https://i.ibb.co/nMZV4Hg/IMG-20200425-WA0015.jpg

[ElNono]

Unions good now?

[DMC]

I like purple unions, but have to cut them underwater.

[rmt]

:tu

Probably the only thing you agree with Trump on.

[baseline bum]

Probably the only thing you agree with Trump on.

Was he supposed to agree on 15 cases soon to become zero?

[Winehole23]

Probably the only thing you agree with Trump on.I liked criminal sentencing reform, and I think there's something to be said for his goal of rebalancing trade with China and being more self-sufficient, even if I think his tactics (tariff and bluster) are screwed up.

[Winehole23]

Your turn rmt, name two things you like about Nancy Pelosi.

[Winehole23]

Probably the only thing you agree with Trump on.I have my doubts infrastructure week will ever get off the ground, but I do think it's a good idea in principle.

[Th'Pusher]

Probably the only thing you agree with Trump on.

And something trump will not be able to execute on. Trump's legislative achievements include trillion dollar tax cuts that primarily benefit the wealthy and a two trillion dollar stimulus in response to a pandemic.

[boutons_deux]

71 percent of jobless Americans did not receive their March unemployment benefits


A new Pew study found only 29 percent of jobless Americans received benefits in March.

https://www.vox.com/covid-19-coronavirus-economy-recession-stock-market/2020/4/25/21236595/unemployment-benefits-71-percent-didnt-recieve-coronavirus-layoffs (https://www.vox.com/covid-19-coronavirus-economy-recession-stock-market/2020/4/25/21236595/unemployment-benefits-71-percent-didnt-recieve-coronavirus-layoffs)

[Trill Clinton]

1377965193565716488

Build Back Better

[Winehole23]

by U-6 we're still in recession

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm