Isiah Thomas ranks Michael Jordan as the fourth-best player he ever faced

[ducks]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/isiah-thomas-ranks-michael-jordan-as-the-fourth-best-player-he-ever-faced-213947721.html

[lefty]

Facts tbh

[FrostKing]

Kareem and Larry, sure. Magic, no.

Isiah glossing over that his Pistons won after Lakers/Celtics were finished winning titles too. He wouldn't be a 2-time Champ in the early/mid 80s

[DMC]

Kareem and Larry, sure. Magic, no.

Isiah glossing over that his Pistons won after Lakers/Celtics were finished winning titles too. He wouldn't be a 2-time Champ in the early/mid 80s

Bill Russell wouldn't even have made the NBA these days, given his skill then vs what they do now.

You have to judge players based on their era, not others.

[lefty]

Kareem and Larry, sure. Magic, no.

Isiah glossing over that his Pistons won after Lakers/Celtics were finished winning titles too. He wouldn't be a 2-time Champ in the early/mid 80s

Pistons should have won in 88 they got hosed by the refs and Isiah could barely run in game 7, not to mention they could have tied that game but they let the crowd invade the court
They were one mistske away from beating the defending champs Boston in 87, the sane team that swept Demar DeJordan in 86 and 87 :lol
Boston had the best record in the East in 88 so....


It’s not like Isiah played the 91 Lakers....

Jordan is the one who won when those dynasties were done

[FrostKing]

Pistons should have won in 88 they got hosed by the refs and Isiah could barely run in game 7, not to mention they could have tied that game but they let the crowd invade the court
They were one mistske away from beating the defending champs Boston in 87, the sane team that swept Demar DeJordan in 86 and 87 :lol
Boston had the best record in the East in 88 so....


It’s not like Isiah played the 91 Lakers....

Jordan is the one who won when those dynasties were done
Right, and Bulls were a Pippen migraine from modern day 4-Peat

[LkrFan]

Kareem and Larry, sure. Magic, no.

Isiah glossing over that his Pistons won after Lakers/Celtics were finished winning titles too. He wouldn't be a 2-time Champ in the early/mid 80s

Bird > Magic. Are you high? Bird don't even think that son. :lol

[lefty]

Bird > Magic. Are you high? Bird don't even think that son. :lol
The consensus is that Bird > Magic

[Dirks_Finale]

Isiah :lol
Bitter much?:lol

[LkrFan]

The consensus is that Bird > Magic

The consensus (amongst Laker haters) wrong. Not only is it Magic 5, Bird 3, it's Magic 2-1 H2H in the Finals.

Bird wasn't no punk, but even he'll admit Magic was better. He even said as much.

[lefty]

The consensus (amongst Laker haters) wrong. Not only is it Magic 5, Bird 3, it's Magic 2-1 H2H in the Finals.

Bird wasn't no punk, but even he'll admit Magic was better. He even said as much.
Bird was a more complete player than Magic

Lakers had a better bench and the WCF was s cakewalk so don’t give me those h2h arguments without context

[LkrFan]

Bird was a more complete player than Magic

Lakers had a better bench and the WCF was s cakewalk so don’t give me those h2h arguments without context

And the Celtics weren't loaded too? There's a reason why MJ didn't make it out of the EC until Bird's back went out.

That 86 Celtics team is 2nd only to my 87 Lakers, all-time. Yes, over your 2014 Spurs, over my 2001 Lakers and all the Dubs recent championship teams.

Bird was a better scorer, that's it. Rebounding is a wash, and Magic was a better floor general (leader). That's it for me at least.

[lefty]

And the Celtics weren't loaded too? There's a reason why MJ didn't make it out of the EC until Bird's back went out.

That 86 Celtics team is 2nd only to my 87 Lakers, all-time. Yes, over your 2014 Spurs, over my 2001 Lakers and all the Dubs recent championship teams.

Bird was a better scorer, that's it. Rebounding is a wash, and Magic was a better floor general (leader). That's it for me at least.

I never said Cs were not loaded

I said the Lakers had a better bench

The West was shit most of the time so the Lakers were more rested , healthier come Finals time

Celtics had to battle Bucks, Sixers, Pistons in the East; tougher opposition and longer series and injuries like it was the case in 87 (add to that the fact the Lakers were more athletic and faster)

Bird wasn't just a better scorer, he was a better team defender, better passer -yes better passer than Magic, Magic mostly made 3 on 1 fast breaks flashy but easy assists where as Bird threaded the needle and made more difficult assists

Plus Magic assist stats wehre inflated in half court : easy entry pass to Kareem, dribble dribble, swings left, swings right, sky hook, Chick Hear orgasm, assist Magic , LMAO

Bird was more clutch as well and I know you are going to bring the Jr Skyhook from 87, but career wise it's Bird no question

[Spurtacular]

Bill Russell wouldn't even have made the NBA these days.

If he came along a decade later, he'd be Dave Cowens level (who was still HOF).

In today's game, I'd take him over Draymond.

[Spurtacular]

It's starting to occur to me that Earvin was probably paid a helluva a lot of money to call Dad Killer the "best ever" on air.

[DMC]

If he came along a decade later, he'd be Dave Cowens level (who was still HOF).

In today's game, I'd take him over Draymond.

Today isn't a decade later.

[scanry]

It's starting to occur to me that Earvin was probably paid a helluva a lot of money to call Dad Killer the "best ever" on air.

Magic unlike a bitter Isiah acknowledged MJ way back in 1992. After his 1st 3peat, Magic even said MJ was the greatest. Think Bird came around in 95 or 96. Isaiah can't get over the fact that he was snubbed on the dream team. That's his wrong doing tbh. Everyone hated Isiah back then including MJ, Magic, Larry, Chuck, Malone and Stockton. Don't think anyone was a fan of Pistons basketball.

Isiah was also bitter over the fact that Chicago, his hometown became Michael's and I remember him saying recently that played a role in the rivalry too

[lefty]

Magic unlike a bitter Isiah acknowledged MJ way back in 1992. After his 1st 3peat, Magic even said MJ was the greatest. Think Bird came around in 95 or 96. Isaiah can't get over the fact that he was snubbed on the dream team. That's his wrong doing tbh. Everyone hated Isiah back then including MJ, Magic, Larry, Chuck, Malone and Stockton. Don't think anyone was a fan of Pistons basketball.

Isiah was also bitter over the fact that Chicago, his hometown became Michael's and I remember him saying recently that played a role in the rivalry too

Magic compliments pretty everyone, he is the king of superlatives

And just because X player thinks T player is great, it doesn’t mean we have to agree with him
Same thing with Bird, I mean he said Klay fucking Thompson was amazing :lol

[lefty]

Seems to me Jordan is the bitter one

[scanry]

Seems to me Jordan is the bitter one

Not bitter but sensitive as hell. Isiah however is a bitter fool. Just accept it was wrong on your part and move on. MJ took a beating from you 3 years in a row but he still came over and showed sportsmanship.

[scanry]

Magic compliments pretty everyone, he is the king of superlatives

And just because X player thinks T player is great, it doesn’t mean we have to agree with him
Same thing with Bird, I mean he said Klay fucking Thompson was amazing :lol

Complimenting is one thing and acknowledging another player (especially in the same era) as the greatest is a whole another thing. Do you think Kobe, Lebron or Duncan would acknowledge the other as a better player. Hell no, they'll take it to their grave thinking they were the better player.

[lefty]

Not bitter but sensitive as hell. Isiah however is a bitter fool. Just accept it was wrong on your part and move on. MJ took a beating from you 3 years in a row but he still came over and showed sportsmanship.
Well they are both competitive but at least Isiah tried hs best to move on but Jordon didn't

Then TLD came out with a narrative controlled by his Airness and I can see why Isiah would be upset

And just because he didn't rank MJ at number 1, it doesn't mean it's because of ther rivalry; Isiah also competed and competed hard against Magic, Kareem and Larry

Dr J doesn't have MJ in his top 5, is it bitterness?

Isiah will never kiss Jordon's rings and I respect that

Just look at MJ's HOF speech; Jordan is , as you said, extremely sensitive; that's his personality, it's not his fault, he was born like that but at the same time he could have make an effort

[Spurtacular]

Magic unlike a bitter Isiah acknowledged MJ way back in 1992.

Bird kicked the shit out of Jordan. It was too his advantage to muddle the waters further with comments like that. Still, I think a lot of money was in play.

[Spurtacular]

Isiah was also bitter over the fact that Chicago, his hometown became Michael's and I remember him saying recently that played a role in the rivalry too

Isiah and Bird both would've three-peated if not for Stern; and against tougher competition. If some bitterness bled over, one can understand.

[Chris Fall]

Isiah had a career losing record against Kareem, Magic, and Bird. He's got an even playoff series record against all three as well.

Isiah has a career winning record against Jordan and was 3-1 against him in playoff series.

Individual greatness doesn't necessarily mean toughest competition. Depends how you look at it. Maybe if it's a list of greatest individual players, his list changes. Maybe not. But he was talking toughest to compete against, not greatest individual players. One doesn't have to mean the other.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

Tbh a lot of older players don't have Jordan as their #1. And the ones that do list him as the GOAT are mainly players whose prime were in the 90s. There are exceptions of course, but I guarantee you that Magic in 1988 didn't think Jordan was a better player than him :lol Dr. J don't have him as his #1. Gervin doesn't. Oscar doesn't. Wilt didn't and neither does Kareem. The ones running the narrative are mainly the people that lost to him in the 90s.

Objectively why would Isaiah consider him the GOAT? Bird whooped his ass. Bird is the one who made the steal in perhaps the worst moment of Isaiah's career. When Isaiah came around, Jordan wasn't even in the league.Bird was a champion. Magic was a champion and Isiah had nothing. He wanted to be like those guys. In Isaiah's prime, Jordan was an afterthought. He broke his foot. Got swept. Got swept again. And the Bulls weren't considered a great team because they didn't win anything. When you think of the 80s, what teams do you think of? Lakers, Celtics, Pistons, 76ers, Rockets. Hell I might put the Bulls behind even the Hawks and the Bucks. In Isaiah's mind, Jordan didn't win anything during what he believed to be the Golden Age of basketball.

But now Isiah has to listen to the media kick him down again and again because he doesn't kiss the ring. I about threw up when Skip said that the second greatest point guard of all time, ZEKE, didn't make the Dream Team because he wasn't good enough. Dude probably fantasizes about Mike being with his wife; hell I'm not even sure he doesn't call out Michael's name in the middle of the horizontal dance with his lady :lol

[Dirks_Finale]

I got Magic over Bird by a hair.

Would be interested in a poll to see what the consensus actually is, nationwide

[FrostKing]

I got Magic over Bird by a hair.

Would be interested in a poll to see what the consensus actually is, nationwide
Consensus nationwide
"The black guy"


Something doesn't add up that Lakers had Kareem and Magic and were about even with the Celtics.

Team A
Kareem + Bird
Vs
Team B
McHale + Magic


What happens

[Dirks_Finale]

Consensus nationwide
"The black guy"


Something doesn't add up that Lakers had Kareem and Magic and were about even with the Celtics.

Team A
Kareem + Bird
Vs
Team B
McHale + Magic


What happens
He had the back end of Kareem's prime and the twilight. Not Milwaukee Kareem.

And Parish was not exactly Joel Anthony or something, he was pretty good.

Overall , i think Magic had a slight edge in talent on his teams..

[Dirks_Finale]

Tbh a lot of older players don't have Jordan as their #1. And the ones that do list him as the GOAT are mainly players whose prime were in the 90s. There are exceptions of course, but I guarantee you that Magic in 1988 didn't think Jordan was a better player than him :lol Dr. J don't have him as his #1. Gervin doesn't. Oscar doesn't. Wilt didn't and neither does Kareem. The ones running the narrative are mainly the people that lost to him in the 90s.

Objectively why would Isaiah consider him the GOAT? Bird whooped his ass. Bird is the one who made the steal in perhaps the worst moment of Isaiah's career. When Isaiah came around, Jordan wasn't even in the league.Bird was a champion. Magic was a champion and Isiah had nothing. He wanted to be like those guys. In Isaiah's prime, Jordan was an afterthought. He broke his foot. Got swept. Got swept again. And the Bulls weren't considered a great team because they didn't win anything. When you think of the 80s, what teams do you think of? Lakers, Celtics, Pistons, 76ers, Rockets. Hell I might put the Bulls behind even the Hawks and the Bucks. In Isaiah's mind, Jordan didn't win anything during what he believed to be the Golden Age of basketball.

But now Isiah has to listen to the media kick him down again and again because he doesn't kiss the ring. I about threw up when Skip said that the second greatest point guard of all time, ZEKE, didn't make the Dream Team because he wasn't good enough. Dude probably fantasizes about Mike being with his wife; hell I'm not even sure he doesn't call out Michael's name in the middle of the horizontal dance with his lady :lol

I've been thinking about this lately and I think you are right. Whatever era they played in is what era they will choose from as their GOAT pick.

Few exceptions here or there....like Isiah who picks Lebron just to piss off Jordan. I don't think he actually means it, he's trolling

[lefty]

I've been thinking about this lately and I think you are right. Whatever era they played in is what era they will choose from as their GOAT pick.

Few exceptions here or there....like Isiah who picks Lebron just to piss off Jordan. I don't think he actually means it, he's trolling

Or maybe he objectively thinks Lebron is better than Jordan

Isiah is 3-1 against Jordan, I think he’s ok

[Spurtacular]

Tbh a lot of older players don't have Jordan as their #1. And the ones that do list him as the GOAT are mainly players whose prime were in the 90s. There are exceptions of course, but I guarantee you that Magic in 1988 didn't think Jordan was a better player than him :lol Dr. J don't have him as his #1. Gervin doesn't. Oscar doesn't. Wilt didn't and neither does Kareem.

Bird doesn't either despite the myth people like to perpetuate.

[Spurtacular]

Consensus nationwide
"The black guy"


Something doesn't add up that Lakers had Kareem and Magic and were about even with the Celtics.

Team A
Kareem + Bird
Vs
Team B
McHale + Magic


What happens


81-84/85; Kareem better than McHale.

By 86, McHale was better. But that was one whole season. By the 87 playoffs, McHale had a career altering foot fracture.

Also, let's note that Earvin had Worthy, an athletic wing/big. Bird never had that type of talent to work with. He would have with Bias, but then he died.

Bias dying while the Lakers got M. Thompson for peanuts and AC Green in the draft was a gamechanger. Up to that point, Bird was 3-3 with Magic even being in the much stronger conference and the Lakers on league welfare.

[Dirks_Finale]

To be fair, Pippen and Grant were not mature players for the first two series they played in. Jordan was armed with butter knives in those series. And everybody knows it.


Or maybe he objectively thinks Lebron is better than Jordan

Isiah is 3-1 against Jordan, I think he’s ok

[Dirks_Finale]

When Bird says Jordan is actually God in disguise, I think it's a safe assumption.

What have you heard to the contrary?

Maybe he is like Trump and plays both sides of the issues. No firm convictions.


Bird doesn't either despite the myth people like to perpetuate.

[140]

Here is what Thomas told Sports Illustrated (https://web.archive.org/web/20130722060339/http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/1999/jordan_retires/news/1999/01/13/jordan_greatest/) following Jordan’s retirement from the Bulls in 1999:

“From all the players I have seen and played against, he’s definitely the best player ever. A lot of people like to argue this guy was better or this guy was better. But every player you think of there was some weaknesses and deficiencies in their game. He has the complete package in all facets of his offensive game, and when you break him down defensively, he’s also the best defensive player in the game. ... He should be remembered as the greatest of all time.”



It seems his opinion has changed with time, just as he has adjusted his reasoning (https://sports.yahoo.com/michael-jordan-isiah-thomas-pistons-bulls-walk-off-013736980.html) for not shaking Jordan’s hand after the 1991 Eastern Conference finals. Being called “an a--hole” can make you rethink quite a bit.

https://sports.yahoo.com/isiah-thomas-ranks-michael-jordan-as-the-fourth-best-player-he-ever-faced-213947721.html

[Neo.]

Consensus nationwide
"The black guy"


Something doesn't add up that Lakers had Kareem and Magic and were about even with the Celtics.

Team A
Kareem + Bird
Vs
Team B
McHale + Magic


What happens

i firmly believe if you replace magic with bird on those showtime teams, they win 6-7 championships

bird was a flat out better basketball player. but since magic has "ringzzzzzzzzzzz" everyone wants to give him the edge

but just watching the two of them, taking rings and accomplishments out of the picture, its unquestionable bird was more skilled, more clutch, and at least equal if not a better leader. magic simply had much more talented teams, and was in the weaker conference by far

[lefty]

When Bird says Jordan is actually God in disguise, I think it's a safe assumption.

What have you heard to the contrary?

Maybe he is like Trump and plays both sides of the issues. No firm convictions.

I mean Bird also praised Harden and Thompson so anything is possible

[Spurtacular]

When Bird says Jordan is actually God in disguise, I think it's a safe assumption.

It's not. It's total hyperbole. Jordan nut huggers need to stop pretending that's Bird's endorsement of him as GOAT.
He was being complimentary about the player for the one game he just played.

[LkrFan]

I never said Cs were not loaded

I said the Lakers had a better bench

The West was shit most of the time so the Lakers were more rested , healthier come Finals time

Celtics had to battle Bucks, Sixers, Pistons in the East; tougher opposition and longer series and injuries like it was the case in 87 (add to that the fact the Lakers were more athletic and faster)

Bird wasn't just a better scorer, he was a better team defender, better passer -yes better passer than Magic, Magic mostly made 3 on 1 fast breaks flashy but easy assists where as Bird threaded the needle and made more difficult assists

Plus Magic assist stats wehre inflated in half court : easy entry pass to Kareem, dribble dribble, swings left, swings right, sky hook, Chick Hear orgasm, assist Magic , LMAO

Bird was more clutch as well and I know you are going to bring the Jr Skyhook from 87, but career wise it's Bird no question

Magic: 9 Finals appearances, 5 rangs. Beat Bird twice, beat the Bad Boys twice, beat Philly.

Bird: 5 Finals appearances, 3 rangs. Beat Magic once, beat the Rockets twice :lol

Advantage: Magic Johnson :tu

[i'm_still_beta]

Magic: 9 Finals appearances, 5 rangs. Beat Bird twice, beat the Bad Boys twice, beat Philly.

Bird: 5 Finals appearances, 3 rangs. Beat Magic once, beat the Rockets twice :lol

Advantage: Magic Johnson :tu

But team sports and Magic played in weaker conference. Key differences between them is that Bird was much better shooter and smarter defender :tongue

[Spurtacular]

Magic called Bird the greatest basketball player ever at his retirement ceremony only weeks before that goat comment to Jordan. :lol

Real Magic said Bird was GOAT.
Paid-off Magic said Jordan was GOAT.

[LkrFan]

But team sports and Magic played in weaker conference. Key differences between them is that Bird was much better shooter and smarter defender :tongue

He beat the "better conference" 5 times in a decade. He beat your boy TWICE in the FinalsPERI:lolD

[lefty]

But team sports and Magic played in weaker conference. Key differences between them is that Bird was much better shooter and smarter defender :tongue


Magic called Bird the greatest basketball player ever at his retirement ceremony only weeks before that goat comment to Jordan. :lol

Real Magic said Bird was GOAT.
Paid-off Magic said Jordan was GOAT.

[Dirks_Finale]

He beat the "better conference" 5 times in a decade. He beat your boy TWICE in the FinalsPERI:lolD

[Spurtacular]

He beat the "better conference" 5 times in a decade. He beat your boy TWICE in the FinalsPERI:lolD

By Stern stealing Game 5 from Boston in 85 and his company men stealing Game 4 in Boston in 87. Not to mention 88 was stolen from the Pistons. Lakers weren't really a championship team after 80 and 82. And those were weaker years for the 80's frankly.

[baseline bum]

Kareem and Larry, sure. Magic, no.

Isiah glossing over that his Pistons won after Lakers/Celtics were finished winning titles too. He wouldn't be a 2-time Champ in the early/mid 80s

Meh Detroit came a phantom foul away from beating the 88 Lakers. I don't think they'd have much of a chance against the 83 Sixers or 86 Celtics, but the Pistons' 89 team would have a great shot in any other year that decade. That team was deep and had so many quality bigs. Very underrated IMO.

[baseline bum]

And the Celtics weren't loaded too? There's a reason why MJ didn't make it out of the EC until Bird's back went out.

That 86 Celtics team is 2nd only to my 87 Lakers, all-time. Yes, over your 2014 Spurs, over my 2001 Lakers and all the Dubs recent championship teams.

Bird was a better scorer, that's it. Rebounding is a wash, and Magic was a better floor general (leader). That's it for me at least.

Bird has more T-cells too and didn't have the gay gene to pass to his kid.

[lefty]

By Stern stealing Game 5 from Boston in 85 and his company men stealing Game 4 in Boston in 87. Not to mention 88 was stolen from the Pistons. Lakers weren't really a championship team after 80 and 82. And those were weaker years for the 80's frankly.

True true

[i'm_still_beta]

He beat the "better conference" 5 times in a decade. He beat your boy TWICE in the FinalsPERI:lolD

Lakers did it. Not Magic alone. It's not tennis or boxing

[ambchang]

Magics my favourite non spurs of all time. And even then I have bird as the better player.

[LkrFan]

Bird has more T-cells too and didn't have the gay gene to pass to his kid.

:lmao

[LkrFan]

True true

:lol

[LkrFan]

Lakers did it. Not Magic alone. It's not tennis or boxing

Nope, I don't wanna hear it. In 1991, he went to battle vs Mike with rookie Vlade Divac and a past his prime Worthy. How'd he get out the West? The Guests were LOADED that year.

Magic was the common denominator for all 9 Lakers Finals appearances. And had he not blown his hammy in 89 he would have 3peated. Think about that: Bird only won 3. 2 vs the Rockets :lol

[LkrFan]

Magics my favourite non spurs of all time. And even then I have bird as the better player.

They said the West was the weakest Conference in the 80s. How come Bird and his hall of fame frontline only won 3 times?

:downspin:

[LkrFan]

By Stern stealing Game 5 from Boston in 85 and his company men stealing Game 4 in Boston in 87. Not to mention 88 was stolen from the Pistons. Lakers weren't really a championship team after 80 and 82. And those were weaker years for the 80's frankly.

Magic's Lakers played full seasons, while winning 5 rangs :lol

[LkrFan]

https://twitter.com/TheHoopCentral/status/1256832836079718402?s=19

None tbh

[lefty]

Nope, I don't wanna hear it. In 1991, he went to battle vs Mike with rookie Vlade Divac and a past his prime Worthy. How'd he get out the West? The Guests were LOADED that year.

Magic was the common denominator for all 9 Lakers Finals appearances. And had he not blown his hammy in 89 he would have 3peated. Think about that: Bird only won 3. 2 vs the Rockets :lol
The guests were notorious chokers too

Case in point : blowing a double digit lead against Chicago’s bench in the finals :lol

[FrostKing]

https://twitter.com/TheHoopCentral/status/1256832836079718402?s=19

None tbh
Cavaliers would have been transformed into Dynasty

1-4 Lebron :lmao

[baseline bum]

Nope, I don't wanna hear it. In 1991, he went to battle vs Mike with rookie Vlade Divac and a past his prime Worthy. How'd he get out the West? The Guests were LOADED that year.

Magic was the common denominator for all 9 Lakers Finals appearances. And had he not blown his hammy in 89 he would have 3peated. Think about that: Bird only won 3. 2 vs the Rockets :lol

With those Rockets destroying Magic along the way both times. :lol

[LkrFan]

The guests were notorious chokers too

Case in point : blowing a double digit lead against Chicago’s bench in the finals :lol

:lmao

[LkrFan]

With those Rockets destroying Magic along the way both times. :lol

SMH :lol

[Spurtacular]

Magic's Lakers played full seasons, while winning 5 rangs :lol

Truth hurts. That your numbers are way inflated really is a tough pill for you to swallow.

Stern made sure there was no repeat of the 60's.

[LkrFan]

Truth hurts. That your numbers are way inflated really is a tough pill for you to swallow.

Stern made sure there was no repeat of the 60's.

What happened during the Jim Crow era of the NBA?

[Spurtacular]

What happened during the Jim Crow era of the NBA?

No Stern in place.

[LkrFan]

No Stern in place.

I knew you'd say that. You meant to say "no free agency" NBA. -15 points son

Celtics were loaded and no team could poach Russell or Havlicek.

Russell couldn't even eat with his team at restaurants and he was their best player. I guarantee you he would have bounced after his rookie deal if he could.

Wilt left for LA
Kareem left for LA
Shaq left for LA
MVPAU left for LA
Bron left for LA
AD left for LA

See a trend here? Russell would have too :toast

[Spurtacular]

I knew you'd say that. You meant to say "no free agency" NBA. -15 points son

Celtics were loaded and no team could poach Russell or Havlicek.

Russell couldn't even eat with his team at restaurants and he was their best player. I guarantee you he would have bounced after his rookie deal if he could.

Wilt left for LA
Kareem left for LA
Shaq left for LA
MVPAU left for LA
Bron left for LA
AD left for LA

See a trend here? Russell would have too :toast

I see a trend of you making excuses for the Lakers' cheating. :toast

[LkrFan]

I see a trend of you making excuses for the Lakers' cheating. :toast

:lol

We never had a top 50 player, load manage him/say he is injured, then ended up with the #1 pick in 97. ;)

[Spurtacular]

:lol

We never had a top 50 player, load manage him/say he is injured, then ended up with the #1 pick in 97. ;)

Yea, there was a conspiracy to have a top franchise in a shithole.

[LkrFan]

Yea, there was a conspiracy to have a top franchise in a shithole.

No arguments here :lol

[ambchang]

They said the West was the weakest Conference in the 80s. How come Bird and his hall of fame frontline only won 3 times?

:downspin:

Because they played in the East?

Not sure what you’re trying to get at.

[FrostKing]

"While we're here, we might as well win"

- Bird @ All Star game

Lebron would never say that/have that attitude

[LkrFan]

Because they played in the East?

Not sure what you’re trying to get at.

It's simple. You say the WC was weak. Therefore Bird neva should have lost to Magic twice. He was able to beat Houston tho. I guess that counts, right? :toast

[LkrFan]

"While we're here, we might as well win"

- Bird @ All Star game

Lebron would never say that/have that attitude

LeBron >>>>>> Bird. -50 points for implying otherwise. :lol

[ambchang]

It's simple. You say the WC was weak. Therefore Bird neva should have lost to Magic twice. He was able to beat Houston tho. I guess that counts, right? :toast

It has been explained multiple times that a) they can’t even get there because the east is so tough and b) they were beaten up when they did get there. Weren’t you reading?

[Dirks_Finale]

:lol
:lol

We never had a top 50 player, load manage him/say he is injured, then ended up with the #1 pick in 97. ;)

[Pelicans78]

The Bucks and the Sixers weren’t that great by 87. The Lakers were clearly better by that point. Beat the Celtics twice during the season and buried them in the Finals. Celtics were lucky to be in the Finals at the point stealing the series against the Pistons. The following year, the Lakers played two 7 game series against the Jazz and Mavs and still had enough to beat the Pistons in 7. Going through a tougher conference doesn’t make that much of a difference to be honest. The better team usually wins. Even if the Lakers would have gotten by Houston in 86, they still would have gotten smashed by the Celtics. Only Spurs fans like to make excuses.

[LkrFan]

It has been explained multiple times that a) they can’t even get there because the east is so tough and b) they were beaten up when they did get there. Weren’t you reading?

You could say that about the WC the last 20 years. That point has no merit.

[ambchang]

You could say that about the WC the last 20 years. That point has no merit.

Which is why the Heat managed to win in 2006.

[LkrFan]

Which is why the Heat managed to win in 2006.

No. D-Whistle shot the most freebies in NBA Finals history. 97-112 freebies are the most for a 6-game series. That's why.

Stern hated Cuban. Remember, he "knows where all the bones lay."

Dirk was robbed and should have 2 ringsPERIOD.

[ambchang]

No. D-Whistle shot the most freebies in NBA Finals history. 97-112 freebies are the most for a 6-game series. That's why.

Stern hated Cuban. Remember, he "knows where all the bones lay."

Dirk was robbed and should have 2 ringsPERIOD.

Stern also hated every single lakers opponent by that logic.

[dbreiden83080]

Larry and Magic had weaknesses.. Jordan had none.. Best player on offense, and along with Pippen also the best on Defense.. Jordan and Jabbar is more of a debate.. Jordan still better IMO..

[lefty]

Larry and Magic had weaknesses.. Jordan had none.. Best player on offense, and along with Pippen also the best on Defense.. Jordan and Jabbar is more of a debate.. Jordan still better IMO..
:lmao

[dbreiden83080]

:lmao

Wow you sure told me..

[dbreiden83080]

Or maybe he objectively thinks Lebron is better than Jordan

Isiah is 3-1 against Jordan, I think he’s ok

No he does not.. The Last Dance only made his bitterness worse. Doing rounds of interviews defending not shaking hands.. Those Pistons were great, but a dirty team the NBA was thrilled they could forget about once Jordan took over the league.. He is bitter that the Bad Boys never got their due.. He is bitter that Jordan and others, kept him off the Dream Team. He is bitter he is NOT regarded in the same class as Magic, Bird, and that almost everyone says Jordan is the GOAT.. Basically he is just bitter..

[lefty]

No he does not.. The Last Dance only made his bitterness worse. Doing rounds of interviews defending not shaking hands.. Those Pistons were great, but a dirty team the NBA was thrilled they could forget about once Jordan took over the league.. He is bitter that the Bad Boys never got their due.. He is bitter that Jordan and others, kept him off the Dream Team. He is bitter he is NOT regarded in the same class as Magic, Bird, and that almost everyone says Jordan is the GOAT.. Basically he is just bitter..

Ate you in his head?
How do you know?

[dbreiden83080]

Ate you in his head?
How do you know?

Because I pay attention. Not being on the Dream Team was an enormous stain on his legacy. He’s clearly annoyed and bothered by his place in history. He can't stand that he was left off, because all the great players of his era were on the team.. And he is still answering questions why he was left off.. That whole team is bitter they have been largely forgotten in the annals of NBA history.

[Brazil]

Facts tbh

:lol Jordan a glorified DeRozan :lol

[lefty]

:lol Jordan a glorified DeRozan :lol
True true

[lefty]

Because I pay attention. Not being on the Dream Team was an enormous stain on his legacy. He’s clearly annoyed and bothered by his place in history. He can't stand that he was left off, because all the great players of his era were on the team.. And he is still answering questions why he was left off.. That whole team is bitter they have been largely forgotten in the annals of NBA history.
I would be pissed off too if I was Zeke and Stoquetone was picked instead of me
But Jordan can't let go the most insignificant thing; like if Jordan has a bad game and a journalist wrote that you can bet he would be very salty about it today

[Brazil]

True true

sure.. :lol

[i'm_still_beta]

Larry and Magic had weaknesses.. Jordan had none.. Best player on offense, and along with Pippen also the best on Defense.. Jordan and Jabbar is more of a debate.. Jordan still better IMO..

3-point shooting, post defense vs bigger players aka no defensive versatility, average at best passing for guard. No weaknesses lmao.

"But but I played like dogshit last 3 games againts Seattle because of personal issues". What a bitter bitch :lol
Punching Steve Kerr of all people but shitting pants against Bill Cartwright and Robert Parish:lol Dat alpha-mentality :lmao
Clowning Krause but showing dog iq with Charlotte and Wizards:lmao
Unable to face critism. No interviews for SportsIllustrated, no talk to Barkley, no Thomas in Dream Team :lol What a beta
Term star-calls was born ... because of Jordan:rollinWas ridiculed by his colleagues because of it:lmao
Mike aka No Pip and all-d level defensive big - no chip:rollin
All about winning ... but refusing to lower scoring average to enhance his team perfomance and also earlier in his career padding triple-doubles ala Westbrook and checking stats at scores table :lmao
Was invincible and had no fear of anybody ... Telling privately it's good that Hakeem and Rockets will never make the Finals:rollin
Media reworking VORP and BPM to let him beat LeBron and modern stars :lmao
So scared and insecure of LeBron that decided to show bullshit propaganda:lmao

Imagine worship and defending this wannabe g.o.a.t

[lefty]

3-point shooting, post defense vs bigger players aka no defensive versatility, average at best passing for guard. No weaknesses lmao.

"But but I played like dogshit last 3 games againts Seattle because of personal issues". What a bitter bitch :lol
Punching Steve Kerr of all people but shitting pants against Bill Cartwright and Robert Parish:lol Dat alpha-mentality :lmao
Clowning Krause but showing dog iq with Charlotte and Wizards:lmao
Unable to face critism. No interviews for SportsIllustrated, no talk to Barkley, no Thomas in Dream Team :lol What a beta
Term star-calls was born ... because of Jordan:rollinWas ridiculed by his colleagues because of it:lmao
Mike aka No Pip and all-d level defensive big - no chip:rollin
All about winning ... but refusing to lower scoring average to enhance his team perfomance and also earlier in his carrer padding triple-doubles ala Westbrook and checking stats at scores table :lmao
Was invincible and had no fear of anybody ... Telling privately it's good that Hakeem and Rockets will never make the Finals:rollin
Media reworking VORP and BPM to let him beat LeBron add modern stars :lmao
So scared and insecure of LeBron that decided to show bullshit propaganda:lmao

Imagine worship and defending this wannabe g.o.a.t
Damn son

Go easy on those brainwashed Nike collectors

[Dirks_Finale]

3-point shooting, post defense vs bigger players aka no defensive versatility, average at best passing for guard. No weaknesses lmao.


Avg passer is the only truth here. He could cover the taller guys but Pippen usually took that role.

Look at his three point shooting and it's not much different career wise from Lebron, who is considered a decent 3 point shooter. Jordan .327 Lebron @ .344

And if you remove MJ's Wizard years which was an abomination, the percentages are about the same. We have yet to see has been 40 year old Lebron. And if we do we can logically surmise or anticipate a dip in his percentages. Hopefully not also with his free throw percentage which is already leaving much to be desired for a superstar player who holds the ball in crunch time.

[Neo.]

He could cover the taller guys but Pippen usually took that role.

magic in 91 finals might have something to say about that


Look at his three point shooting and it's not much different career wise from Lebron, who is considered a decent 3 point shooter. Jordan .327 Lebron @ .344

lol shortened 3pt line for 3 seasons (not coincidentally three of his 4 best)


And if you remove MJ's Wizard years which was an abomination

oh how convenient that jordan fan says those years were an "abomination" when its convenient to their argument, but then in other arguments want to say its a testament to his greatness that he was nearly 40 and still putting up 20/5/5


the percentages are about the same.

:lmao picking and choosing

[Dirks_Finale]

magic in 91 finals might have something to say about that



lol shortened 3pt line for 3 seasons (not coincidentally three of his 4 best)



oh how convenient that jordan fan says those years were an "abomination" when its convenient to their argument, but then in other arguments want to say its a testament to his greatness that he was nearly 40 and still putting up 20/5/5



:lmao picking and choosing

Tell us what you think Magic would say.

If 39 yr old Lebron goes to play for the Wizards with subpar percentages that lower his overall numbers, then Lebron tots will never let us hear the end of it.

[lefty]

:lol the only guys Jordan could cover are the plumber and accountatns he was allowed to foul

Taller competent guards lie Penny and Magic smoked him

Competent midgets like Isiah, TIm H, KJ smoked him as well

"but DPOYuh" :lol

[Dirks_Finale]

:lol the only guys Jordan could cover are the plumber and accountatns he was allowed to foul

Taller competent guards lie Penny and Magic smoked him

Competent midgets like Isiah, TIm H, KJ smoked him as well

"but DPOYuh" :lol

He covered Magic in game 1 of the 91 Finals. Held him to like 5 shots. Outscored him 36-19.

Those so called plumbers would be 20 ppg scorers in this era. Only requirement is being capable of hitting a 3.

[lefty]

He covered Magic in game 1 of the 91 Finals. Held him to like 5 shots. Outscored him 36-19.

Those so called plumbers would be 20 ppg scorers in this era. Only requirement is being capable of hitting a 3.

Really?
So why did Phil swith Pippen and Jordan to that assignment?

Those plumbers wouldn't beeven drafted today LMAO - John Starks was a grocery bagger - an actual grocery bagger because he was undrafted; name me one grocery bagger drafted in today's NBA
I'll wait

[Dirks_Finale]

Really?
So why did Phil swith Pippen and Jordan to that assignment?

Those plumbers wouldn't beeven drafted today LMAO - John Starks was a grocery bagger - an actual grocery bagger because he was undrafted; name me one grocery bagger drafted in today's NBA
I'll wait

Lakers were the favorites in that series. Lebron's fans tend to forget that, and some were still just a gleam in their daddy's eye when it happened. :lol

Magic career FG% is 52%. In that series he was guarded by Scottie and MJ and shot 43%

Scottie did a better job on him than Jordan did in that series. No denying it. But that's a whole 5 games. Very small sample size.

[lefty]

Lakers were the favorites in that series. Lebron's fans tend to forget that, and some were still just a gleam in their daddy's eye when it happened. :lol

Magic career FG% is 52%. In that series he was guarded by Scottie and MJ and shot 43%

Scottie did a better job on him than Jordan did in that series. No denying it. But that's a whole 5 games. Very small sample size.
Lakers were not the favorites
Blazers were the favorites in WCF but they choked - those early 90s Blzers teams were notorious chokers
with Terry Teagle and
Worthy injured his foot before the NBA Finals started and he and Byron Scott didn'T even play game 5; Magic managed to have 20 assists that night despite having to play with Terry Teagle, Tony Smith and 2nd year Divac :lol

And you watch the games, Magic'S bad shooting wasn't because of Jordan

[i'm_still_beta]

RealGM poster tracked Bulls defense on Magic in 1991 Finals. As always Jordan gets exposed big time when he gets analyzed thoroughly
Link: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1261129

[Dirks_Finale]

You are right about the blazers being notorious chokers. They still are :lol

But the Lakers were preseason favorites over the Bulls. Then when they made the Finals they were still favored. Every talking head and his momma said the Bulls werent ready for the more experienced Lakers.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1991_preseason_odds.html


Lakers were not the favorites
Blazers were the favorites in WCF but they choked - those early 90s Blzers teams were notorious chokers
with Terry Teagle and
Worthy injured his foot before the NBA Finals started and he and Byron Scott didn'T even play game 5; Magic managed to have 20 assists that night despite having to play with Terry Teagle, Tony Smith and 2nd year Divac :lol

And you watch the games, Magic'S bad shooting wasn't because of Jordan

[lefty]

Eh it'S their opinion tbh :lol

[Dirks_Finale]

I have already conceded that Pippen did a better job on Magic in that series. But just for the hell of it, I am going to re-watch some of that series. It's been 30 years.

[lefty]

:lol this dude on the left though

:lol WTF is that

I present you Tim McMillen, congressman

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_McMillen

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EXq-PCLXQAAYcRw?format=jpg&name=small

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Charles_Thomas_McMillen.jpg

[KobesAchilles]

Jordan had plenty of weaknesses as a player and anybody saying that he has none is beyond stupid. He couldn't shoot the 3. His field goal percentage was like 28% from 3 career wise and don't give me those bullshit years where they moved the 3 point line closer. It's ridiculous that grown men count those years, probably tee off from the women's marker and then brag to their friends that they birdied the hole :lol

He wasn't a good rebounder. Yeah he was alright for a guard but he wasn't great at rebounding. That would be a weakness. He wasn't a good post defender. An if anybody says he is then why didn't he guard bigger players? Why did he let Cartwright, Grant, and Pippen guard them? Because he couldn't. Again, that's a weakness. His passing was shitty. He had those Kobe like passes where he is tripled teamed and about to be blocked so he passes to the wide open guy and people are like omg what a pass! Well he had 3 people on him and could've made that pass a lot sooner :lol

I'm not taking anything anyway from Jordan. the guy was great. He dominated his era. He's in the discussion of GOAT (I personally don't have him as the GOAT but a lot of people from 1990-on do). But another weakness of his is that he has no ability to give other people who did well against him any credit. Imagine saying that Gary Payton didn't guard him well but that he had personal problems going on :lol So you had no personal problems game 1-3 but coincidentally when the Glove was on his ass then all of a sudden he was going through shit. Makes sense.

Sidenote: I love 80s bball but let's not pretend that they actually knew how to defend people. Teams averaged 115 a game back then and I have to hear over and over again how physical they were. Look they didn't call flagrants, i know that, but they called just as many soft ticky tacky fouls as they do today. It's actually harder to play defense today than it was back then.

[lefty]

Jordan had plenty of weaknesses as a player and anybody saying that he has none is beyond stupid. He couldn't shoot the 3. His field goal percentage was like 28% from 3 career wise and don't give me those bullshit years where they moved the 3 point line closer. It's ridiculous that grown men count those years, probably tee off from the women's marker and then brag to their friends that they birdied the hole :lol

He wasn't a good rebounder. Yeah he was alright for a guard but he wasn't great at rebounding. That would be a weakness. He wasn't a good post defender. An if anybody says he is then why didn't he guard bigger players? Why did he let Cartwright, Grant, and Pippen guard them? Because he couldn't. Again, that's a weakness. His passing was shitty. He had those Kobe like passes where he is tripled teamed and about to be blocked so he passes to the wide open guy and people are like omg what a pass! Well he had 3 people on him and could've made that pass a lot sooner :lol

I'm not taking anything anyway from Jordan. the guy was great. He dominated his era. He's in the discussion of GOAT (I personally don't have him as the GOAT but a lot of people from 1990-on do). But another weakness of his is that he has no ability to give other people who did well against him any credit. Imagine saying that Gary Payton didn't guard him well but that he had personal problems going on :lol So you had no personal problems game 1-3 but coincidentally when the Glove was on his ass then all of a sudden he was going through shit. Makes sense.

Sidenote: I love 80s bball but let's not pretend that they actually knew how to defend people. Teams averaged 115 a game back then and I have to hear over and over again how physical they were. Look they didn't call flagrants, i know that, but they called just as many soft ticky tacky fouls as they do today. It's actually harder to play defense today than it was back then.
Exactly

If you watch Jordan's offensive rebounds, they happen because those fucking milkmen who are supposed to guard him were just watching the ball instead of blocking him out :lol
And yeah his assists were just "oh shit, I can't score" bail out passes :lol

As for the sidenote there are plenty of videos and full old games on YT, you can see they called soft ass fouls and handchecking and you can see the so called tough guys flopping

Who's your GOAT by the way

[KobesAchilles]

Exactly

As for the sidenote there are plenty of videos and full old games on YT, you can see they called soft ass fouls and handchecking and you can see the so called tough guys flopping

Who's your GOAT by the way
Wilt. Everybody loves to shit on him that he didn’t win enough or he played against inferior competitors but nobody shits on Shaq for winning against Mutumbo, Smits, Van Horn, and Eric Dampier. Dude had rules changed so he couldn’t dominate and he still did. He averaged 50 points a game and 24 rebounds that same season. He played all 48 minutes a game for every game one season. Do you know how ridiculously difficult that is? Literally no other player can do that in the history of the game. Also he averaged something like 9 blocks a game for some years. Which is like Double Hakeems career high.

[lefty]

Wilt. Everybody loves to shit on him that he didn’t win enough or he played against inferior competitors but nobody shits on Shaq for winning against Mutumbo, Smits, Van Horn, and Eric Dampier. Dude had rules changed so he couldn’t dominate and he still did. He averaged 50 points a game and 24 rebounds that same season. He played all 48 minutes a game for every game one season. Do you know how ridiculously difficult that is? Literally no other player can do that in the history of the game. Also he averaged something like 9 blocks a game for some years. Which is like Double Hakeems career high.
Wilt was dominant tbh

Conversely, they changed the rules for Jordan :lol Wilt even said that to Jordan during the 1997 All Star weekend

[Neo.]

Lakers were the favorites in that series. Lebron's fans tend to forget that, and some were still just a gleam in their daddy's eye when it happened.

hm i seem to also recall the lakers having some rather significant injuries in that series too, but jordan lovers sure love to forget that. typical pick-and-choose mentality, just like mike himself loves to do. figures.

[Neo.]

You are right about the blazers being notorious chokers. They still are :lol

But the Lakers were preseason favorites over the Bulls. Then when they made the Finals they were still favored. Every talking head and his momma said the Bulls werent ready for the more experienced Lakers.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1991_preseason_odds.html

:lmao :lmao :lmao preseason odds

[Neo.]

Jordan had plenty of weaknesses as a player and anybody saying that he has none is beyond stupid. He couldn't shoot the 3. His field goal percentage was like 28% from 3 career wise and don't give me those bullshit years where they moved the 3 point line closer. It's ridiculous that grown men count those years, probably tee off from the women's marker and then brag to their friends that they birdied the hole :lol

He wasn't a good rebounder. Yeah he was alright for a guard but he wasn't great at rebounding. That would be a weakness. He wasn't a good post defender. An if anybody says he is then why didn't he guard bigger players? Why did he let Cartwright, Grant, and Pippen guard them? Because he couldn't. Again, that's a weakness. His passing was shitty. He had those Kobe like passes where he is tripled teamed and about to be blocked so he passes to the wide open guy and people are like omg what a pass! Well he had 3 people on him and could've made that pass a lot sooner :lol

I'm not taking anything anyway from Jordan. the guy was great. He dominated his era. He's in the discussion of GOAT (I personally don't have him as the GOAT but a lot of people from 1990-on do). But another weakness of his is that he has no ability to give other people who did well against him any credit. Imagine saying that Gary Payton didn't guard him well but that he had personal problems going on :lol So you had no personal problems game 1-3 but coincidentally when the Glove was on his ass then all of a sudden he was going through shit. Makes sense.

Sidenote: I love 80s bball but let's not pretend that they actually knew how to defend people. Teams averaged 115 a game back then and I have to hear over and over again how physical they were. Look they didn't call flagrants, i know that, but they called just as many soft ticky tacky fouls as they do today. It's actually harder to play defense today than it was back then.

truthbombs everywhere in this post, but especially the bold

[Spurtacular]

RealGM poster tracked Bulls defense on Magic in 1991 Finals. As always Jordan gets exposed big time when he gets analyzed thoroughly
Link: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1261129

Will have to look at this.

I think Jordan was a good defender unlike Kobe who was given I dunno how many all-team defense awards despite being total shiesta. For that reason, I don't put any stock in popular narratives.
Jordan was not as good as Pippen at guarding wing players. No denying that. Anyone here claiming that?

[Spurtacular]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EXq-PCLXQAAYcRw?format=jpg&name=small



:lmao

[Spurtacular]

So you had no personal problems game 1-3 but coincidentally when the Glove was on his ass then all of a sudden he was going through shit. Makes sense.

Side note: The Glove is the nickname the Dream Teamers gave to John Stockton when he was shutting down MJ in practices when nobody else could.
Gary Payton stole the nickname in the next NBA season.

[KobesAchilles]

Side note: The Glove is the nickname the Dream Teamers gave to John Stockton when he was shutting down MJ in practices when nobody else could.
Gary Payton stole the nickname in the next NBA season.
Was it really? I had no idea. Poor Stockton, not only did he never get a nickname, but when he did he got it jacked :lol

[Spurtacular]

Was it really? I had no idea. Poor Stockton, not only did he never get a nickname, but when he did he got it jacked :lol

All-time steals leader. He didn't need a nickname. He was the real deal.

[lefty]

Steal leader got his nickname stolen

[dbreiden83080]

3-point shooting, post defense vs bigger players aka no defensive versatility, average at best passing for guard. No weaknesses lmao.


If you have ESPN Plus watch Game 2 of the 91 Finals against the Lakers. The passing clinic Jordan put on was fucking insane. Got everyone the ball, and then took it over offensively. He was a very good passer.. Not Magic, or Bird, but they can't score like Mike.. Jordan is likely the best guard defender of all time. Everyone from coaches, to former players, credit this to him. Post Defense? Was he supposed to grow 6 inches and guard Hakeem on the block or something? GTFO.. Conversely Hakeem might be the best defensive Big ever. You want him running around chasing PG's up and down the court? And if he can't is that a weakness? Yeah Lebron can guard all 5 positions. And he's been guarding them like shit for the last 4 years.. Bird not an elite 1 on 1 defender. Neither was Magic.. Jordan was a dominate 1 on 1 defender.. And wait for it... The best offensive player of all time.

[dbreiden83080]

Really?
So why did Phil swith Pippen and Jordan to that assignment?

Those plumbers wouldn't beeven drafted today LMAO - John Starks was a grocery bagger - an actual grocery bagger because he was undrafted; name me one grocery bagger drafted in today's NBA
I'll wait


Starks was a good defender, and a good 3 PT shooter especially for the 90's when the 3 had little emphasis. In today's game with Teams shooting 400 3 PT shots a game.. Starks is likely an All Star.. Starks was gritty and Tough.. Pop would have loved him on the Spurs title teams.

[Dirks_Finale]

If you have ESPN Plus watch Game 2 of the 91 Finals against the Lakers. The passing clinic Jordan put on was fucking insane. Got everyone the ball, and then took it over offensively. He was a very good passer.. Not Magic, or Bird, but they can't score like Mike.. Jordan is likely the best guard defender of all time. Everyone from coaches, to former players, credit this to him. Post Defense? Was he supposed to grow 6 inches and guard Hakeem on the block or something? GTFO.. Conversely Hakeem might be the best defensive Big ever. You want him running around chasing PG's up and down the court? And if he can't is that a weakness? Yeah Lebron can guard all 5 positions. And he's been guarding them like shit for the last 4 years.. Bird not an elite 1 on 1 defender. Neither was Magic.. Jordan was a dominate 1 on 1 defender.. And wait for it... The best offensive player of all time.


Yup. Lebron guarding all 5 positions is a myth. When Duncan was lighting the Heat up for like 25 points in a half in the 2013 Finals I didn't see Spo send the self proclaimed king to guard him and put out the fire. Because he knew he was incapable.

[HarlemHeat37]

Isiah is the only real nigga from his generation. He's the only man from that time who isn't a bitter and drowning in delusional bias.

[lefty]

Starks was a good defender, and a good 3 PT shooter especially for the 90's when the 3 had little emphasis. In today's game with Teams shooting 400 3 PT shots a game.. Starks is likely an All Star.. Starks was gritty and Tough.. Pop would have loved him on the Spurs title teams.
Starks was not a good defender, he got lit up by other shooting guards; Dumars droppoed 40 on his ass a couple of times, Reggie "Klay Thompson' Miller looked like Thanos whenever ther faced Indiana

Heck even T:loldd Day made him look bad a couple of times

As a shooter he was very streaky, he wasn't a pure consistent shooter

Starks was gritty and had heart, I like him a lot actually, but he - like other shooting guards of that era - were grossly overrated to make Jordan look like he overcame amazing hurdles :lol

[lefty]

If you have ESPN Plus watch Game 2 of the 91 Finals against the Lakers. The passing clinic Jordan put on was fucking insane. Got everyone the ball, and then took it over offensively. He was a very good passer.. Not Magic, or Bird, but they can't score like Mike.. Jordan is likely the best guard defender of all time. Everyone from coaches, to former players, credit this to him. Post Defense? Was he supposed to grow 6 inches and guard Hakeem on the block or something? GTFO.. Conversely Hakeem might be the best defensive Big ever. You want him running around chasing PG's up and down the court? And if he can't is that a weakness? Yeah Lebron can guard all 5 positions. And he's been guarding them like shit for the last 4 years.. Bird not an elite 1 on 1 defender. Neither was Magic.. Jordan was a dominate 1 on 1 defender.. And wait for it... The best offensive player of all time.
Magic and Bird could have scored like Mike if they wanted to, they weren't chuckers like Jordan, that's the difference

[dbreiden83080]

Magic and Bird could have scored like Mike if they wanted to, they weren't chuckers like Jordan, that's the difference

LOL.. Wow.. Well he won 6 with all that Chucking.. So it worked..

BTW Jordan and Bird have the same career FG%..

[dbreiden83080]

Starks was not a good defender, he got lit up by other shooting guards; Dumars droppoed 40 on his ass a couple of times, Reggie "Klay Thompson' Miller looked like Thanos whenever ther faced Indiana

Heck even T:loldd Day made him look bad a couple of times

As a shooter he was very streaky, he wasn't a pure consistent shooter

Starks was gritty and had heart, I like him a lot actually, but he - like other shooting guards of that era - were grossly overrated to make Jordan look like he overcame amazing hurdles :lol

Starks mostly got lit up by Jordan, the best offensive player of all time. However in 93 the Knicks got up 2-0 due in part to his D on Jordan. Jordan struggled unusually that year at MSG.. Then Jordan dropped 54 back in Chicago. And in game 5 had a great all around game with 29 PTS and 14 Assists. Nobody stopped Jordan for 7 games.. Not possible.. Reggie was in position to beat the Knicks in 94, and choked it away.. Up 3-2 going back to Indiana, and what happened? Reggie shot 8/21 and missed a critical FT. Starks did the job on D.. Oh yeah and he also scored 26 PTS, 5-6 from 3 PT land. Knicks win in 7 and advance to the finals.
Starks was on the All Defensive 2nd Team in 1993. And really shot the 3 well for that era.. Like I said Pop would loved him on the Spurs, he was pure heart and competitiveness on the court..

[Dirks_Finale]

In 1993 he had 4.2 defensive winshares. That's higher than Lebron has had for the past 7 years. :lol


Starks was not a good defender, he got lit up by other shooting guards; Dumars droppoed 40 on his ass a couple of times, Reggie "Klay Thompson' Miller looked like Thanos whenever ther faced Indiana

Heck even T:loldd Day made him look bad a couple of times

As a shooter he was very streaky, he wasn't a pure consistent shooter

Starks was gritty and had heart, I like him a lot actually, but he - like other shooting guards of that era - were grossly overrated to make Jordan look like he overcame amazing hurdles :lol

[dbreiden83080]

In 1993 he had 4.2 defensive winshares. That's higher than Lebron has had for the past 7 years. :lol

LOL Nice..

[FrostKing]

Boom. Headshot.

[HarlemHeat37]

John Starks was 6'3 and 190 pounds, he was the same size as Steph Curry and Steve Nash, yet was asked to guard wing players. I know nostalgia is strong, but dead this nonsense:lol

How can anybody who has played basketball not realize that size and strength are pretty fucking important?

[lefty]

In 1993 he had 4.2 defensive winshares. That's higher than Lebron has had for the past 7 years. :lol
Yes he did

In an era where defense was utter shit and the talent pool was diluted :lol

Steph Curry would have had the same 4.2 defensive winshare if he played in the 90s :lol

:

[lefty]

John Starks was 6'3 and 190 pounds, he was the same size as Steph Curry, yet was asked to guard wing players. I know nostalgia is strong, but dead this nonsense:lol

How can anybody who has played basketball not realize that size and strength are pretty fucking important?
:lol nostalgic NBA fans

[lefty]

LOL.. Wow.. Well he won 6 with all that Chucking.. So it worked..

BTW Jordan and Bird have the same career FG%..
No won 6 rings once Phil had to convince him to take less shots and share the ball. as Jordan told him he was worried his scoring averagw would go down in the new system; look it up, I'm not making this shit up :lol

He won 6 rings thanks to Stern changing the rules for him

HE won 6 rings because he faced shitty opponents in the Finals

He won 6 rings thanks to Scottie guarding the most dangerous perimeter player allowing Jordan to save energy for scoring in the 4th quarters; Scottie was the defensive anchor, the playmaker and the 2nd best scorer of that team
Bird and Magic had more workload than Jordan who could focus mainly on scoring

:lol Jordan stans logic "pointz=best player= ringz"

[Dirks_Finale]

Somehow I knew you would make that same unproven claim :lol


Yes he did

In an era where defense was utter shit and the talent pool was diluted :lol

Steph Curry would have had the same 4.2 defensive winshare if he played in the 90s :lol

:

[Dirks_Finale]

How can anybody who has played basketball not realize that size and strength are pretty fucking important?

True. But so is heart.

[lefty]

True. But so is heart.
I have a lot of heart so I'm sure I can guard Giannis

Heart : another nonsense narrative invented in the 90s because the talent pool was so shit
"willing his team to victory"
"game face"
"clenched jaw'
"killer instinct" :lmao
"gnnnhhhhhhhh"

[Dirks_Finale]

Do you have enough heart to funnel him into a brick wall of Anthony Mason, Ewing, Oakley, etc? Because that helps - a lot :lol

Look, on the ball defense for him was solid. He passed the eye test. Very tenacious, especially early on in his career.


I have a lot of heart so I'm sure I can guard Giannis

[dbreiden83080]

John Starks was 6'3 and 190 pounds, he was the same size as Steph Curry and Steve Nash, yet was asked to guard wing players. I know nostalgia is strong, but dead this nonsense:lol

How can anybody who has played basketball not realize that size and strength are pretty fucking important?

He fought his way into the NBA. He was not a touted prospect, he was undrafted. That's what made his career so cool.. He battled his way onto the Knicks as a starter, and key contributor to a team that was in title contention for about 5 years..

[FrostKing]

size and strength are pretty fucking important
https://statandstuffdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/eddy_curry1.jpeg

[Dirks_Finale]

:lol
https://statandstuffdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/eddy_curry1.jpeg

[lefty]

https://statandstuffdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/eddy_curry1.jpeg


Eddy Curry wouldn't even ride a bench in today's NBA tbh
But he would have thrived in the 90s

[Dirks_Finale]

Rodman giving up 100 lbs and like 5 inches to Shaq.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg3BiOw4TWo

[Kyle_Kuzma]

isaiah has a winning record against jordan in both the playoffs and regular season combined. jordan was his bitch until laimbeer and mahorn got old and adrian dantley was shipped to dallas.

it played against prime honky, pre HIV magic and kareem abdul jabbah!

jordan aint shit to IT

[Kyle_Kuzma]

John Starks was 6'3 and 190 pounds, he was the same size as Steph Curry and Steve Nash, yet was asked to guard wing players. I know nostalgia is strong, but dead this nonsense:lol

How can anybody who has played basketball not realize that size and strength are pretty fucking important?
the jordan love is so sickening.

dude scored a game winner against ehlo, which is equivalent to shooting over grayson allen and people made that shot iconic

jordan dropped 7 3ptrs against clyde which would be equivalent to scoring 30 against victor oladipo= he’s a GOD!

jordan struggled in the finals against payton = he struggled because he missed his dad:cry

fuck this guy

lebron would destroy jordan and his gsng in the 90’s
:sleep
who gonna guard lebron? scottie quittin pippen:lol


cucky pippen would get slapped charles oakley style

[FrostKing]

the jordan love is so sickening.

dude scored a game winner against ehlo, which is equivalent to shooting over grayson allen and people made that shot iconic

jordan dropped 7 3ptrs against clyde which would be equivalent to scoring 30 against victor oladipo= he’s a GOD!

jordan struggled in the finals against payton = he struggled because he missed his dad:cry

fuck this guy

lebron would destroy jordan and his gsng in the 90’s
:sleep
who gonna guard lebron? scottie quittin pippen:lol


cucky pippen would get slapped charles oakley style
https://i.ibb.co/2YxWhJs/Cll-Re7-KWEAAih-OU.jpg

[lefty]

https://i.ibb.co/2YxWhJs/Cll-Re7-KWEAAih-OU.jpg
2011 the only argument Jordan stans have :lol

Meanwhile Jordan played those guys every night :lol

[FrostKing]

2011 the only argument Jordan stans have :lol

Meanwhile Jordan played those guys every night :lol
Frightened look on Lebron's face

"HELP!"

[lefty]

Frightened look on Lebron's face

"HELP!"
Jordan to Stern on 1990 : “help me or I’m retiring :cry” :lol

[lefty]

the jordan love is so sickening.

dude scored a game winner against ehlo, which is equivalent to shooting over grayson allen and people made that shot iconic

jordan dropped 7 3ptrs against clyde which would be equivalent to scoring 30 against victor oladipo= he’s a GOD!

jordan struggled in the finals against payton = he struggled because he missed his dad:cry

fuck this guy

lebron would destroy jordan and his gsng in the 90’s
:sleep
who gonna guard lebron? scottie quittin pippen:lol


cucky pippen would get slapped charles oakley style

[Dirks_Finale]

No 2011 moment by Jordan for the blind witnesses to point to :lol

6-0 -- never even pressed for a game 7 :lol

Load management :lol :lol :lol :lol

Breathe in Lebron or Durant's direction and it's a foul :lol

Have to go to the replay everytime somone trips over their own shoelaces :lol

6'5 'centers' :lol

Joining up with your buddies because you can't get a title by leading your own team :lol

Instagram ballers :lol

[lefty]

:lol thinking the antiquated 90s were good

Easily the worst era in the history of the league :lol

[Dirks_Finale]

:lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGt_OEOGOiY