Duncan not one of the best? [Archive]

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polandprzem

11-06-2005, 02:26 PM

Where is the place for Timothy Theodore Duncan among all the greats in history?
It is said that Tim has not that killer instinct. He don't have what Magic had and what Bird had. The heroics. Is it what TD needs to be one of "them"?
The clutchness and determination. Bird was batteling for the rebounds and was hitting the ubelivable shots.
Jordan was the hightlight guy with the determination and winning was hittin the shots in crunch an is GOAT so Tim is not even near him.

Where is Tims domination? Not in stats not in the total advantage. HE IS NOT CONVINCING!

Just goes to work plays some basket and goes home.
For many people he is not the best PF now (and we want to talk about the greats not even the best in his position :rolleyes :rolleyes

:pctoss

Ps. I've got my own anwsers but I would like to wait for your opinions, and please be serious in this one.

ChumpDumper

11-06-2005, 02:29 PM

After a loss, it's very difficult to take this kind of thread seriously.

polandprzem

11-06-2005, 02:36 PM

After a loss, it's very difficult to take this kind of thread seriously.
Try man try
I belive in you

remingtonbo2001

11-06-2005, 02:40 PM

Hmmm....Maybe I should find a game where Jordan, Bird, or Magic, played some "NOT SO GREAT" basketball. There is a difference between Tim and the players mentioned. I cannot say how passionate Tim is, that would not be fair. It is obvious, that he rarely shows it. But, I can say this without doubt, Tim Duncan is the most FUNDAMENTALLY SOUND player to step foot onto a court. Yes, more so than Jordan, Bird, ect. He doesn't have the greatest of athletic abilities, but his basketball IQ can only be associated with EINSTIEN. Everytime I watch him, its amazing. Bird was heralded with the greatest shot to pass through the net. Jordan, the greatest passion anyone has ever seen. Tim, well, he knows this game, better than anyone. But that really isn't what makes him great. Really, the qualities listed isn't what makes these players great. There greatness comes from there selfless attitude. Putting their team before everything else. Why do you think there is so much hype around Lebron. It isn't the fact that he can jump out of the Gym, nor shoot out lights, but the fact that he is willing to do whatever it takes to put his teamates in the best possible position to win. That's what makes a CHAMPION. That's what makes great players, the GREATEST OF ALL TIME.

ChumpDumper

11-06-2005, 02:42 PM

My answers about Duncan were answered during the last finals.

remingtonbo2001

11-06-2005, 02:46 PM

I think what bothers most about Timmy's demeanor is the fact that he could go home, regardless of win or loss, and still be content with his life. This is how it should be. We all should love basketball, but giving family, friends, God, a backseat to basketball is ludicris, yet it is what we are told Champions are made of. The man who places other things before basketball, numerous times, are considered to lack the necessary passion to be a true CHAMPION, a true GOAT. I disagree. The champion I see, has his jersey hanging in the rafters, #50. There is no greater CHAMPION.

HB22inSA

11-06-2005, 07:03 PM

Great players are always going to be measured by Championships and MVP's.

He's well on his way.

GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI

11-06-2005, 07:12 PM

Tim will be the best PF to ever play the game when he retires, his name should be mentioned with Wilt Chamberlin, Shaq, and Bill Russell

Chris

11-06-2005, 07:20 PM

He'll get into the Hall of Fame and thats all that matters in my book. You can't compare legends. They were all great in their own way.

Brutalis

11-06-2005, 11:35 PM

Duncan sits on a small lifeboat with a handful of other players who already accomplished what he had, and they will always be critisized for the games that won't matter.

TDfan2007

11-07-2005, 12:08 AM

Obi wan Ginobili

11-07-2005, 09:56 AM

Tim Duncan Made the second most Clutch at the buzzer shot in the playoffs in the last 5 years...

Problem is... D Fisher made the first about 1.1 seconds later.

kskonn

11-07-2005, 11:15 AM

I think the thing about Duncan is how he rare it is for him to have a bad game. i agree if he was more selfish and demanded the ball more he would have better stats and probably more game winning shots. Fortunately for the spurs he is not that kind of player. He is willing to be a decoy, a star, a defender whatever it takes. When it is said and done I think he will be remembered as the best Pf of all time.

And tim is very dominating. I bet if you ask anyone who plays against Him they will back me up on that.

kskonn

11-07-2005, 11:15 AM

Tim Duncan Made the second most Clutch at the buzzer shot in the playoffs in the last 5 years...

Problem is... D Fisher made the first about 1.1 seconds later.

very true.,

Extra Stout

11-07-2005, 12:18 PM

I don't understand this thread.

Tim Duncan is widely acknowledged as the best basketball player in the world today.

Though not yet 30 years of age, Tim Duncan has already in a majority of hoopheads' minds passed Karl Malone to be recognized as the greatest power forward in the history of the game.

There are discussions about whether he or Larry Bird is the greatest ever to play the forward position.

So what the fuck are you talking about, polski?

polandprzem

11-07-2005, 02:12 PM

I don't understand this thread.

Tim Duncan is widely acknowledged as the best basketball player in the world today........So what the fuck are you talking about, polski?
:D

Well it is about Tim being where larry Bird is. Many people are saing he is not in the same leauge magic , Larry , Mike are.
"He is the best player now, but he is not that 100% guy who will do all to win, and he is missing important shots"

damn I'm not going to agree with that
The heroics? - This part is the most difficult to explain. Bevcause what is heroics? For me it is giving the team what the team needs. And Tim is that guy. The heroic? The impossible shots maybe?
I have no idea. The PF position is specific. Tim is not a SG who can just take an advantage from the screens go up and hit a jumper. I think pepople do not get it.
How can you explain the heroics?

The losses - Remember the 2001? Tim with his head down stareing at the floor. He just gave up. Did he? The 2001 team had the best regular record in NBA and they lost in sweep with the LA
why? Possibly Bird Magic would fight. In Tims eyes you couldn't see that look- Let's go!

duncan2k5

11-07-2005, 02:19 PM

timmy is the best pf to ever play the game...his accomplishments are uncanny...he has been the best pf since his rookie career...and he is only 30...lets go home now

nkdlunch

11-07-2005, 02:20 PM

lmao remembering 2001??? get with the program, it's 2005 and Duncan is the champ now. I'd pick Duncan over Bird anyday.

ro_50

11-07-2005, 02:26 PM

TD is already considered the best player in the L and his legend is growing and he's 29 (I dont think he's 30 yet) and he gets love from people who played before him like Magic, Sir Charles, Jerry West, Bill Russell.

I guess you are referring to the writers who cover the game, and they always clamor for style along w/ substance.

Magic, Bird, MJ had the flair to go w/ the substance.

TD's style is different, he doesnt talk smack on the court, his style is in his own, which makes him unique.

He's already won 3 ring, could win a 4 this year. Even if he doesnt win another one anymore, his place in the League's immortals is secure.

He will go down at the best PF of all time, but he's still in his prime. Greatness is something that takes a long time to dissect.

pache100

11-07-2005, 02:46 PM

:D Many people are saing he is not in the same leauge magic , Larry , Mike are.

Well, then, IMO, many people are wrong. They are so wrong. If you agree with them, IMO, you are wrong, too.

The losses - Remember the 2001? Tim with his head down stareing at the floor. He just gave up. Did he? ... In Tims eyes you couldn't see that look- Let's go!

Apparently you (and I'm guessing those "many people" referenced above) have never seen Timmy set that jaw, get that gleam in his eye, put his head down, and play his heart out. When he gets that pissed-off "YOU are NOT going to take this away from ME" look in his eye...LOOK OUT!

(I saw that look when he came out after the half in the 7th game against the Pistons last year in the Finals...YOWEEE!)

polandprzem

11-07-2005, 03:03 PM

lmao remembering 2001??? get with the program, it's 2005 and Duncan is the champ now. I'd pick Duncan over Bird anyday.
Me too, but so what?

ZStomp

11-07-2005, 03:26 PM

WTF?

One loss and we get this piece of crap thread?

Vashner

11-07-2005, 03:44 PM

This thread is the suck.

Extra Stout

11-07-2005, 03:52 PM

:D

Well it is about Tim being where larry Bird is. Many people are saing he is not in the same leauge magic , Larry , Mike are.
"He is the best player now, but he is not that 100% guy who will do all to win, and he is missing important shots"
Well, the folks who are saying that are basing their memories upon highlight films. In highlight films, the great players never miss.

The heroics? - This part is the most difficult to explain. Bevcause what is heroics? For me it is giving the team what the team needs. And Tim is that guy. The heroic? The impossible shots maybe?
21-20-10-8, Game 6, 2003 Finals.
That's just one.
He hit a layup at the buzzer off a great feed from Manu to eliminate the Sonics last spring. That's another.
Then there was the shot right before 0.4*.
Game 6, 2003, at the Staples Center. He absolutely dismantled Shaq.
And of course he put the team on his back in the 3rd and 4th quarters of Game 7 against the Pistons.

He's done it plenty of times, only the same dickheads who didn't care to watch because the Spurs aren't glamorous enough for them are complaining it didn't happen only because they were too lazy to tune in and see it happen.

The losses - Remember the 2001? Tim with his head down stareing at the floor. He just gave up. Did he? The 2001 team had the best regular record in NBA and they lost in sweep with the LA
why? Possibly Bird Magic would fight. In Tims eyes you couldn't see that look- Let's go!
So what happened when Magic's defending champion Lakers lost in the first round to a sub-.500 Kings team in 1981? Where was Magic's fight then?
What was going on with Michael Jordan in the late 1980's when the Pistons defense would shut him down every year in the playoffs?
Why is it that it took the collapse of the Sixers for Larry Bird's Celtics finally to become the perennial Eastern Conference powerhouse? Where was his "fight" from 1980 to 1983?

Oh, that's right, on the highlight films they only show when the immortals won. They don't show the failures they experienced in order to get there.

These "pundits" have memories just as short as their attention span, and they're irritated that a vanilla small-market team with a bunch of strange accents is establishing a dynasty.

None of this criticism is legitimate. It is based solely upon the ignorance of those uttering the criticisms. Duncan has all the bona fides of past greats. All of them.

Big Pimp_21

11-07-2005, 04:20 PM

Where is the place for Timothy Theodore Duncan among all the greats in history?

Wait a minute...Tim's middle name is Theodore?

polandprzem

11-07-2005, 05:00 PM

Tymoteusz Boguslaw Duncan "Brazowy wojownik" (Brown warrior)

40minus8

11-07-2005, 07:21 PM

Well in my opinion each great player has there own history and way of showing how good they are. You cannot compare or better yet it is not right to compare one player to another past, present, or future player. The things that a player does that make him a great player are the ones you remember and the stats that show that a player not only does great on his own, but makes his team mates and team better. Duncan has what you might call brains. If he is duobled team he will pass the ball, if he sees a team mate open with a better shot he passes, I mean if you want to say a player is not great or has he done that makes hima great player you should talk about Shaq, T-Mac, Kobey, or perhaps Vince Carter. :cooldevil

polandprzem

11-08-2005, 02:38 AM

WTF?

One loss and we get this piece of crap thread?

Okay now we have another win and the thread goes on.

Why not compare the greats?

Why everybody talking Jordan GOAT? This is not a opinion now it is a statment of a fact...

Ps. there is many sucking threads in here and I'm not posting there. Why are you doing this in the thread you think sucks?

polandprzem

11-08-2005, 01:52 PM

Shaq? GIG where are U from?

duncan_21

11-08-2005, 02:27 PM

It is said that Tim has not that killer instinct. He don't have what Magic had and what Bird had. The heroics. Is it what TD needs to be one of "them"?

I think it's green slimy horseshit that td isn't known to have sports (not real heroics - that goes to the troops fighting a war based on lies) heroics. Do you remember the seattle series? Do you remember the near quadruple double against nj? I don't need to bring up the la series. Is he among the best? ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!

For those that don't think he isn't athletic, get a clue. He does excel at coordination/body contorl all the rest he's very good. He's one of those guys who is very good at every aspect physically. He doesn't shine vertically, quickness, or strength. However if you could put a numeric value on all 3 of those aspects for a pf I would be surpised if anyone had a better sum of all 3.

The one thing he does excel at is coordination. He knows the best way to put his body in position to shoot, pass, dunk, rebound, block and has the coordination to balance his body in such a way that he succeeds in all aspects of the game.

The only reason td gets no mainstream love is because he doesn't play for ny, la, or chi.

BlueShark#6

11-08-2005, 02:33 PM

polandprzem

11-08-2005, 02:43 PM

Dog wait till Timmy is retiring...he still has some years ahead of him.
I do not want to wait.
Fuck waiting. The thing is about his status of being great. The opinion is this: "Even if Tim gets 7 rings he won't be where Magic Bird and Jordan" Wchich is BS about those 2. But why then he never be considered a better than Jordan?
The fact that all the Fnals with Jordan was HIS finals.
Tim was close to Manu in the MVP voting.
The 90 leauge was JORDANS leauge
And why it won't be Timmys leauge? Even if he is the best player right now

Extra Stout

11-08-2005, 03:01 PM

And why it won't be Timmys leauge? Even if he is the best player right now
Michael Jordan was an extremely charismatic and flashy player in the #3 media market.

Magic Johnson was an extremely charismatic and flashy player in the #2 media market.

Larry Bird was the Great White Hope in the #6 media market.

Tim Duncan is a soft-spoken all-fundamental player with no charisma or flash in the #37 media market.

That is why it will never be "Tim's League." The Kool Kids in the media don't make him their "chosen one" because he doesn't fit the mold of what they want to write or talk about.

It has nothing to do with what he does on the court. It has to do with big-city media sucking their own dicks.

polandprzem

11-08-2005, 03:10 PM

pache100

11-08-2005, 03:17 PM

The only reason td gets no mainstream love is because he doesn't play for ny, la, or chi.

That, and he's not loud and obnoxious. Or stupid. Or a criminal.

Extra Stout

11-08-2005, 03:21 PM

Okay the media thing has got a lot to do with that.
What is the difference between being flashy (with winning ability) and being fundamentaly sound player. What makes Jordan so much better. Even if you take away all the media stuff.
Jordan had mad hops. He could dunk from the free throw line. He could do double-360s in the lane in the air between defenders and lay the ball in off the glass backwards.

Magic had a wide arsenal of run-and-gun dipsy-doo no-look passes.

Those guys did super-flashy things with the ball that made people who normally don't care about basketball tune in and watch, and they won while doing it.

Meanwhile, Tim Duncan has a bunch of fundamental post moves, good footwork, gets in good rebounding position, keeps his arms up, and moves properly on defense. There's no aerial artistry. There's no menacing physical presence. Nothing flashy. Just basketball.

The casual viewer will tune in to see a guy flying through the air. He won't tune in to see a properly executed drop-step. That's the difference.

polandprzem

11-08-2005, 03:21 PM

(I'm still waiting for others teams fans)

Extra Stout

11-08-2005, 03:23 PM

If Tim Duncan played for the Boston Celtics, the national media would be all over his dick all the time. Bill Simmons would get a woodie every time he thought about him.

polandprzem

11-08-2005, 03:32 PM

What about that spark "come on guys!"
(shit I'm talking like a Tims hater - but I must to do that for a while)

Jordans aggresivnes in defense "you won't get through" (I'm talking about the confidence). In offense "unbeatable Jordan" givesw a sign to attack. An he always was the main man in HIS team.

(For some of you - I have my own anwsers - I want just your opinion, and that will give me some knowlage. I possibly adopt something :) )

Tim is doing this in his way
To me he is like Bill Russell - his greatness is coming mostlyfrom being a team guy (but Bill had better suporters)

nkdlunch

11-08-2005, 03:39 PM

The answer you're looking for:

Tim's boring, and his game is boring. (to the average fan)

polandprzem

11-08-2005, 03:43 PM

Tim's boring, and his game is boring. (to the average fan)
The answer is not that easy

nkdlunch

11-08-2005, 03:44 PM

yes it is.

Extra Stout

11-08-2005, 03:52 PM

What about that spark "come on guys!"
(shit I'm talking like a Tims hater - but I must to do that for a while)

Jordans aggresivnes in defense "you won't get through" (I'm talking about the confidence).
Who is feeding you this bullshit?

What team is tougher to score on in the clutch than Tim Duncan's Spurs?

In offense "unbeatable Jordan" givesw a sign to attack.
What the hell does that even mean? Ooh, Jordan gave an ATTACK sign? What the...? Could it be because HE'S A FUCKING GUARD AND OFTEN IT WAS HIS GODDAMNED JOB TO INITIATE THE TRIANGLE OFFENSE?

Are you saying that Tim Duncan is not great because he's not calling signs like Tony Parker? What?

An he always was the main man in HIS team.
Is there somebody outside of Argentina or France claiming that the Spurs are anybody other than Tim Duncan's team?

(For some of you - I have my own anwsers - I want just your opinion, and that will give me some knowlage. I possibly adopt something :) )
Whoever you're having this discussion with is such a total fucking idiot with respect to the game of basketball that you are belittling and dishonoring yourself to stoop down and talk to him. It's like trying to explain to a 5-year-old why Pinot Noir is a preferrable dinner beverage to cherry Kool-Aid.

polandprzem

11-08-2005, 04:12 PM

Whoever you're having this discussion with is such a total fucking idiot with respect to the game of basketball that you are belittling and dishonoring yourself to stoop down and talk to him. It's like trying to explain to a 5-year-old why Pinot Noir is a preferrable dinner beverage to cherry Kool-Aid.

I didn't give an answer yet. The realy long answer.
I'm just trading short posts. Well - almost all the forum takes me as a blind Spurs (Tim's) fan. If I find a time I will put a loooong answer.

*sings* - It is motivation which Mike gave to the partners

Btw. I'm not talking to the guys saing KG>TD

polandprzem

11-09-2005, 04:02 PM

well?
The spark?

Where are the non spurs fans from that board?

Obstructed_View

11-09-2005, 05:32 PM

The answer you're looking for:

Tim's boring, and his game is boring. (to the average fan)
Even Spurs fans underappreciate what Tim does for the team. It really is that simple. Duncan is about as underrated as Jordan is overrated.

polandprzem

11-10-2005, 02:15 AM

Thanks for your obstructed view.

And I'm not underappreciate Tim
no way

polandprzem

11-10-2005, 06:12 AM

Tim is the best F !
Bird is worst than Tim.

Tim is TOP 5 at least !!!

Now I'm checking Magic

Bird had guts and was a fighter so why almost in every PO his statistics went down?

He had Parish, Archibald even maravich, Maxwell, McHale, Ainge in his team. He had great regular seasons and "just" very good playoffs.

charmie21

11-11-2005, 09:23 AM

Timmy is different from Magic, Bird, Jordan or whoever for that matter.. he does things in his own special way so please do not compare him.. whatever people say, what Timmy did and does for the Spurs are priceless.. he is so selfless that he does not care about his stats, the limelight or whatever.. he gives everything he got for the good of his team.. now that's a true CHAMPION..