Veganism

[spurraider21]

Is anybody here a practicing vegan/vegetarian?

While I absolutely love the taste of meat (my favorite meal is a good rib-eye steak), cheese, etc., I've gotten to a point where I'm struggling to cope with the reality that is factory farming, and don't think I can continue my meat-eating habits in good conscience, tbh.

I know it's unrealistic to go vegan cold-turkey (no pun intended), but what are some realistic diet substitutes aside from the obvious such as Almond/Soy instead of cow milk, vegetable/olive oil instead of buttter, adding more beans/legumes to my diet.

I'm talking things like cheese, eggs, etc.

I do think that as long as I'm mindful of the source, there can be justification for buying chicken products if they are free-range or acquired from specific farms/providers, but that's not something I've necessarily made my mind on. I'm much less confident that I can make similar justifications for beef products, let alone pork.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Suggestion: Eat your meat.

[Will Hunting]

Almond milk is good but a grown ass man shouldn’t drink any soy milk unless he’s trying to grow tits.

[spurraider21]

Almond milk is good but a grown ass man shouldn’t drink any soy milk unless he’s trying to grow tits.
:tu

already preferred the taste of almond milk between the two

[Will Hunting]

:tu

already preferred the taste of almond milk between the two
Iirc almonds are actually good for testosterone levels too, as oppose to soy which is near the top of every health expert list of foods that jack up estrogen levels in men.

Setting aside obvious reasons for why testosterone levels are important, the best way for me to boost their metabolism and not put on fat is high testosterone levels.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Almond milk is good but a grown ass man shouldn’t drink any soy milk unless he’s trying to grow tits.

In which case he's a gay man and not a grown ass man.

[Millennial_Messiah]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJqZy1Jo8iQ

[DeadlyDynasty]

Suggestion: Eat your meat.
Or you can’t have any pudding

[Play Boban]

OP turning into a beta soy boy tbh

only meat probably eats is johnson

[Play Boban]

Says the incel virgin
And proud of it tbh. No one is good enough for me. :clap

[DPG21920]

Vegan is tough for me. My wife has been vegetarian for like 10 years with some bouts of veganism in between. By default, I would say my diet is like 70% vegetarian because of that.

We never buy meat or keep it in the house, but if we go out to eat and I want some, that is what I order. It’s a great balance for me and not because of philosophical reasons, just because I’ve never been THAT into meat (I love seafood though).

She tried making her own cheese from cashews (cashew milk/coconut milk are also good like almond milk) but it’s just tiring. Obviously if you have money you can easily buy vegan products and do just fine. But for me the jump from vegetarian to vegan was not worth it (not sure about impacts on the environment though regarding that jump).

If there are no philosophical reasons you can see to go vegan, my advice would just be vegetarian and like you said mix in things you are cool with (free range eggs, humanely produced cheeses/milk products, fish every once in a while).

So much easier and accomplishes many of the same goals I would imagine. But I can tell you tons of great vegetarian options. Great cookbooks, products I like etc...

[Millennial_Messiah]

Vegan is tough for me. My wife has been vegetarian for like 10 years with some bouts of veganism in between. By default, I would say my diet is like 70% vegetarian because of that.

We never buy meat or keep it in the house, but if we go out to eat and I want some, that is what I order. It’s a great balance for me and not because of philosophical reasons, just because I’ve never been THAT into meat (I love seafood though).

She tried making her own cheese from cashews (cashew milk/coconut milk are also good like almond milk) but it’s just tiring. Obviously if you have money you can easily buy vegan products and do just fine. But for me the jump from vegetarian to vegan was not worth it (not sure about impacts on the environment though regarding that jump).

If there are no philosophical reasons you can see to go vegan, my advice would just be vegetarian and like you said mix in things you are cool with (free range eggs, humanely produced cheeses/milk products, fish every once in a while).

So much easier and accomplishes many of the same goals I would imagine. But I can tell you tons of great vegetarian options. Great cookbooks, products I like etc...
doing it for "philosophical" reasons is faggotry

only time I don't shun veg(etari)anism is when it's for medical reasons, such as someone with a bad heart condition, and/or serious issues with cholesterol and saturated fat tbh.

[spurraider21]

Vegan is tough for me. My wife has been vegetarian for like 10 years with some bouts of veganism in between. By default, I would say my diet is like 70% vegetarian because of that.

We never buy meat or keep it in the house, but if we go out to eat and I want some, that is what I order. It’s a great balance for me and not because of philosophical reasons, just because I’ve never been THAT into meat (I love seafood though).

She tried making her own cheese from cashews (cashew milk/coconut milk are also good like almond milk) but it’s just tiring. Obviously if you have money you can easily buy vegan products and do just fine. But for me the jump from vegetarian to vegan was not worth it (not sure about impacts on the environment though regarding that jump).

If there are no philosophical reasons you can see to go vegan, my advice would just be vegetarian and like you said mix in things you are cool with (free range eggs, humanely produced cheeses/milk products, fish every once in a while).

So much easier and accomplishes many of the same goals I would imagine. But I can tell you tons of great vegetarian options. Great cookbooks, products I like etc...
I love meats, all of it. Beef, pork, chicken, fish... it’s basically philosophical with me. I don’t care about fish so much because they are captured and killed. That’s different than factory farming (pork, beef, and often times chickens). I’ve long known that i couldn’t really justify it, but basically ignored it out of convenience and preference. the thought has crept up on me, though.

I think the only exception id make is if I’m invited to a dinner, family or otherwise, and that’s what’s being served. But i don’t think I’m buying meat anymore or ordering at restaurants.

I’m not morally opposed to the concept of eating animals at all. I don’t think an animals life is inherently as valuable as a human’s. Really comes down to the methods involved in factory farming, where i think there is more abuse and suffering than can be justified by my taste bud preferences. For some, dietary restrictions and underlying health/nutritional conditions might make it impractical to avoid meat. For some they might not be able to afford feeding their family otherwise. And in many areas of the world there isn’t really the infrastructure to be selective about diet choices.

None of those exceptions apply to me at the moment, which is what I’ve really been grappling with.

[Spurtacular]

**

[Chucho]

If morality is the thing and you saw the vids about how we turn resources into delicious product, please watch some vids on the labor conditions of 3rd world manufacturing plants.

[spurraider21]

If morality is the thing and you saw the vids about how we turn resources into delicious product, please watch some vids on the labor conditions of 3rd world manufacturing plants.
completely honest, didnt even watch any videos. at least not recently at all. i was already aware of what was happening, so it wasnt some "oh my god i didnt know this was happening" emotional swing that got me to where i am.

i had put off reading too much about the subject because i pretty much knew that if i put more thought into it, i'd reach this conclusion, and i really dont want to give up beef/pork/dairy.

but then i started reading, listening to speakers on the subject. the discussion below is likely what put me over the edge. was pretty painful watching dillahunty make all sorts of mental contortions/gymnastics to justify his position, and it really was "ends justify the means." he just really wants to keep eating meat and his bending his argument around that, which is pretty striking given his tone on subjects he more regularly discuses.

the environmental aspects are an added bonus, but was not really part of my active thought process (though in other threads on the subject i did say that we need to massively decrease production of beef/pork and that i think that will be inevitable, at least in areas/countries where it is feasible)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAOzGNFamgQ

[Darth_Pelican]

Familiarize yourself with Thai recipes; plenty of delicious vegan rolls, noodle, and rice dishes. I could never give up meat but damn I love myself some good Thai food.

https://www.connoisseurusveg.com/vegan-thai-recipes/

[DMC]

Suggestion: Eat your meat.

If you don't, you can't have any pudding.

[DMC]

Is anybody here a practicing vegan/vegetarian?

While I absolutely love the taste of meat (my favorite meal is a good rib-eye steak), cheese, etc., I've gotten to a point where I'm struggling to cope with the reality that is factory farming, and don't think I can continue my meat-eating habits in good conscience, tbh.

I know it's unrealistic to go vegan cold-turkey (no pun intended), but what are some realistic diet substitutes aside from the obvious such as Almond/Soy instead of cow milk, vegetable/olive oil instead of buttter, adding more beans/legumes to my diet.

I'm talking things like cheese, eggs, etc.

I do think that as long as I'm mindful of the source, there can be justification for buying chicken products if they are free-range or acquired from specific farms/providers, but that's not something I've necessarily made my mind on. I'm much less confident that I can make similar justifications for beef products, let alone pork.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Learn to hunt and fish. You'll have fresh meat and you won't have relied on someone else to raise and kill bessie.

[Bleke]

McDonalds makes a soy burger that is to die for.

[DPG21920]

I love meats, all of it. Beef, pork, chicken, fish... it’s basically philosophical with me. I don’t care about fish so much because they are captured and killed. That’s different than factory farming (pork, beef, and often times chickens). I’ve long known that i couldn’t really justify it, but basically ignored it out of convenience and preference. the thought has crept up on me, though.

I think the only exception id make is if I’m invited to a dinner, family or otherwise, and that’s what’s being served. But i don’t think I’m buying meat anymore or ordering at restaurants.

I’m not morally opposed to the concept of eating animals at all. I don’t think an animals life is inherently as valuable as a human’s. Really comes down to the methods involved in factory farming, where i think there is more abuse and suffering than can be justified by my taste bud preferences. For some, dietary restrictions and underlying health/nutritional conditions might make it impractical to avoid meat. For some they might not be able to afford feeding their family otherwise. And in many areas of the world there isn’t really the infrastructure to be selective about diet choices.

None of those exceptions apply to me at the moment, which is what I’ve really been grappling with.

Makes sense. But the big question I can’t answer is if vegan v vegetarian accomplished the same goal for you? If so, vegetarian is way easier. Way easier.

Let me know if I can help!

100% can tell you to buy the cookbook Thug Kitchen. It’s incredible.

[spurraider21]

Makes sense. But the big question I can’t answer is if vegan v vegetarian accomplished the same goal for you? If so, vegetarian is way easier. Way easier.
no doubt it would be easier. since my gripe doesnt have anything to do with the fact that they're killed, the meat vs dairy product distinction isn't really there.

im going to go step by step taking things out of my diet until it starts becoming unfeasible. my issue is there's a lot of fruit/vegetable products that i simply cant eat. not because of dietary restrictions or allergies per se, but because they just repulse me (eggplants, zucchini, avocado, mushrooms, most berries, raw tomatoes, off the top of my head). its not even a matter of "hmm i'd prefer not to have eggplants" but rather that its probably gag reflex inducing if i eat some of this stuff.

i'm essentially going to eliminate, or at the very least reduce as much as i reasonably can. whether i cut my consumption down to 0% or 5%, thats still something significant in my eyes. i'll see how far i can take it, starting with the meats, which should be the easiest, and working my way through dairy products as much as i can.


Let me know if I can help!

100% can tell you to buy the cookbook Thug Kitchen. It’s incredible.
just checked out their website, looks pretty great! thanks for the rec

this looks outstanding

https://www.thugkitchen.com/recipes/sweet-potato-squash-and-black-bean-enchiladas

[DJR210]

Makes sense. But the big question I can’t answer is if vegan v vegetarian accomplished the same goal for you? If so, vegetarian is way easier. Way easier.

Let me know if I can help!

100% can tell you to buy the cookbook Thug Kitchen. It’s incredible.

:lol at "Thug Kitchen" - that's a brilliant fucking idea tbh

[MultiTroll]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e6/e4/f0/e6e4f0c2e7e79b0fe359a11493c09f06.jpg

[DPG21920]

no doubt it would be easier. since my gripe doesnt have anything to do with the fact that they're killed, the meat vs dairy product distinction isn't really there.

im going to go step by step taking things out of my diet until it starts becoming unfeasible. my issue is there's a lot of fruit/vegetable products that i simply cant eat. not because of dietary restrictions or allergies per se, but because they just repulse me (eggplants, zucchini, avocado, mushrooms, most berries, raw tomatoes, off the top of my head). its not even a matter of "hmm i'd prefer not to have eggplants" but rather that its probably gag reflex inducing if i eat some of this stuff.

i'm essentially going to eliminate, or at the very least reduce as much as i reasonably can. whether i cut my consumption down to 0% or 5%, thats still something significant in my eyes. i'll see how far i can take it, starting with the meats, which should be the easiest, and working my way through dairy products as much as i can.


just checked out their website, looks pretty great! thanks for the rec

this looks outstanding

https://www.thugkitchen.com/recipes/sweet-potato-squash-and-black-bean-enchiladas

The great news is there are so many legitimate great substitutes for all the food you like.

You literally can eat the same things: Thai, Italian, burgers, BLT, eggs, Mexican.

You just take out the meat (and some things like lasagne need no substitute for meat in them to still be great) and sub in other things that very closely approximate why you’re eating the meat.

Try benevolent bacon - it’s awesome. Tons of veggie chorizo as well. Tofu is very versatile and can be cooked so many ways (grilled, or baked, can add liquid smoke, etc).

Impossible Burger is amazing too.

There’s so much stuff. But no matter what you like to eat there’s a great recipe for it vegetarian style

[DPG21920]

And yeah now there’s so much great frozen or pre made foods if you’re a lazy cook (like me lol) where you can’t go wrong.

[DAF86]

https://www.barilochense.com/suplementos/jauja-2/fotos/57643.jpg

[spurraider21]

Looks delicious

[Spurtacular]

You might want to just save yourself some time and pain and just get something for your low t, Lite.

[leemajors]

b12 and d3 aren't available in plants, and some other vitamins and minerals are way less bioavailable in plants (like iron), so you would need to do some research on which supplements to take.

[TheGreatYacht]

Exploring Veganism

https://youtu.be/z3fOVW96FMg

[Spurtacular]

You might want to just save yourself some time and pain and just get something for your low t, Lite.

All the same, I hope it goes well for you, Lite. There's enough killing in this world.

I know I stopped eating gyro when I learned how muzzies brutally kill the animals.

[spurraider21]

I’ve continued eating fish and chicken... but I’m still trying to get a better understanding of whether “pasture raised” is actually significant. From my understanding cage free basically doesn’t mean shit because they are still kept confined in tight quarters, usually indoors, while pasture free allows for more roaming.

but since I’ve started, I’ve had no red meat, and no dairy items with the exception of eggs. Cashew cheese and almond milk have been just fine. Plant based ground meat substitutes and sausages have also worked out so far. Heck I’ve even found plant based cream cheese substitute as well as butter. Slightly more expensive than the dairy versions but nothing prohibitive.

[SpursforSix]

So what's the deal on eggs? I know some vegans who won't eat eggs because they're animal lovers.
But chickens that aren't impregnated by a rooster still lay eggs. They just won't turn into baby chickens.

[SpursforSix]

There’s so much stuff. But no matter what you like to eat there’s a great recipe for it vegetarian style

I like fish too much I think. I can't imagine there's a decent substitute for grilled salmon.

[Millennial_Messiah]

but since I’ve started, I’ve had no red meat, and no dairy items with the exception of eggs. Cashew cheese and almond milk have been just fine. Plant based ground meat substitutes and sausages have also worked out so far. Heck I’ve even found plant based cream cheese substitute as well as butter. Slightly more expensive than the dairy versions but nothing prohibitive.
As unhealthy as processed meat and lunchmeat is, I'm sure those plant-based "substitutes" have even more toxins and carcinogens tbh.

I can't imagine how many toxins are made into the "Impossible Whopper". I did eat one in February. It tasted like a mix of beef and black beans, wasn't terrible. Wouldn't get it again though.

[spurraider21]

As unhealthy as processed meat and lunchmeat is, I'm sure those plant-based "substitutes" have even more toxins and carcinogens tbh.

I can't imagine how many toxins are made into the "Impossible Whopper". I did eat one in February. It tasted like a mix of beef and black beans, wasn't terrible. Wouldn't get it again though.
you're right, they aren't great, but they also aren't part of my regular daily diet or anything like that. still preferable to meat, though.

[Millennial_Messiah]

you're right, they aren't great, but they also aren't part of my regular daily diet or anything like that. still preferable to meat, though.
In what way? Are you fat-intolerant (lipase deficiency)?

[spurraider21]

In what way? Are you fat-intolerant (lipase deficiency)?
preferable in that it does not contain meat, given my goals

no cholesterol either

[Millennial_Messiah]

preferable in that it does not contain meat, given my goals

no cholesterol either
The lack of cholesterol is good, but what goals are you referring to? Weight loss, heart related etc? I'm not sure if eliminating meat is priority over eliminating simple and white carbs.

[spurraider21]

The lack of cholesterol is good, but what goals are you referring to? Weight loss, heart related etc? I'm not sure if eliminating meat is priority over eliminating simple and white carbs.
not eating factory farmed animal products

[SpursforSix]

The lack of cholesterol is good, but what goals are you referring to? Weight loss, heart related etc? I'm not sure if eliminating meat is priority over eliminating simple and white carbs.

100%. From a health standpoint, cutting out carbs and sugar is a must.

[SpursforSix]

As unhealthy as processed meat and lunchmeat is, I'm sure those plant-based "substitutes" have even more toxins and carcinogens tbh.

I can't imagine how many toxins are made into the "Impossible Whopper". I did eat one in February. It tasted like a mix of beef and black beans, wasn't terrible. Wouldn't get it again though.

And I actually agree with this. I think a lot of people are going to jump on board corporate versions of vegan and consume ingredients that are just as harmful as what you'd find in processed meat.

[Millennial_Messiah]

not eating factory farmed animal products

But how does that really factor in health or taste wise? That's all that really matters.

1. Health
2. Taste
3. Price

probably in that order.. Anything else is weak.

Doing it for "cause" alone is submitting to the scam.

[Millennial_Messiah]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e6/e4/f0/e6e4f0c2e7e79b0fe359a11493c09f06.jpg

https://i2.wp.com/writerunboxed.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/01/funny20fortune.jpg

[Millennial_Messiah]

And I actually agree with this. I think a lot of people are going to jump on board corporate versions of vegan and consume ingredients that are just as harmful as what you'd find in processed meat.

Exactly, it's a problem. When consuming less meat is done for pragmatic and practical reasons, such as health and affordability, I'm fine with it. When veganism becomes a religion due to scams from radical hipsters and Leftists like AOC (who eats hamburgers by the way; what a hypocrite)... it's a societal problem and a sign that it's a scam that has gone too far.

[spurraider21]

But how does that really factor in health or taste wise? That's all that really matters.

1. Health
2. Taste
3. Price

probably in that order.. Anything else is weak.

Doing it for "cause" alone is submitting to the scam.
disagree with all this. thanks

[Millennial_Messiah]

100%. From a health standpoint, cutting out carbs and sugar is a must.

Eh, I wouldn't say ALL carbs are bad. Definitely limit sugar and amylopectin (white starch) intake. But fiber is technically a carb and it has net-zero calories and helps you poop which is always a good thing and preserves your digestive health. And complex darker carbs like those in beans and vegetables are fine.

I eat a Greek-esque salad about every other day. With all natural ingredients: spring mix, chopped onions, chopped red onions, 3 kinds of olives, banana peppers and feta cheese (thus it's vegetarian but not vegan). I think vegetarianism in some lights can be pragmatic, but diehard veganism is a social scam and counter-productive to your health.

[Millennial_Messiah]

disagree with all this. thanks

Rule #1) Love yourself before all else.

Diehard veganism is a scam and arguably as unhealthy as a carnivorous-only diet.

At the end of the day, humanity is the master species of this planet. Top of the food chain. Chickens are chickens, fish are fish, sheep are sheep, etc. They are meant to be herded and consumed. If you're a human, you capitalize, and don't limit yourself unless absolutely necessary to your own survival.

[spurraider21]

Rule #1) Love yourself before all else.

Diehard veganism is a scam and arguably as unhealthy as a carnivorous-only diet.

At the end of the day, humanity is the master species of this planet. Top of the food chain. Chickens are chickens, fish are fish, sheep are sheep, etc. They are meant to be herded and consumed. If you're a human, you capitalize, and don't limit yourself unless absolutely necessary to your own survival.
disagree. thanks

[MultiTroll]

https://i2.wp.com/writerunboxed.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/01/funny20fortune.jpg
I did turn on a person to these cauliflower tempura who initially thought it was nice white fish.

[DAF86]

We are carnivores, it is in our nature. Nothing wrong with killing in order to nurture ourselves. It is what it is.

I guess a case could be made in terms of the unnatural situations some animals are raised and killed in order to feed humans, but one has to wonder what's more traumatic for an animal: having a quick painless death at the hands of humans, or being chased around by predators and having a scary, painful, slow death in the wild?

Sport hunters can go fuck themselves though, tbh.

[SpursforSix]

We are carnivores, it is in our nature. Nothing wrong with killing in order to nurture ourselves. It is what it is.

I guess a case could be made in terms of the unnatural situations some animals are raised and killed in order to feed humans, but one has to wonder what's more traumatic for an animal: having a quick painless death at the hands of humans, or being chased around by predators and having a scary, painful, slow death in the wild?

Sport hunters can go fuck themselves though, tbh.

A case could be made that we’re not truly carnivores as we have to cook most meat to eat it. That’s pretty unnatural.

[DAF86]

A case could be made that we’re not truly carnivores as we have to cook most meat to eat it. That’s pretty unnatural.

We cook most vegan food too. Not only that, we even have to artificially create or alter a lot of that food too.

[leemajors]

We are carnivores, it is in our nature. Nothing wrong with killing in order to nurture ourselves. It is what it is.

I guess a case could be made in terms of the unnatural situations some animals are raised and killed in order to feed humans, but one has to wonder what's more traumatic for an animal: having a quick painless death at the hands of humans, or being chased around by predators and having a scary, painful, slow death in the wild?

Sport hunters can go fuck themselves though, tbh.

No, omnivores.

[Millennial_Messiah]

We are carnivores, it is in our nature. Nothing wrong with killing in order to nurture ourselves. It is what it is.

I guess a case could be made in terms of the unnatural situations some animals are raised and killed in order to feed humans, but one has to wonder what's more traumatic for an animal: having a quick painless death at the hands of humans, or being chased around by predators and having a scary, painful, slow death in the wild?

Sport hunters can go fuck themselves though, tbh.

Good post, but

No, omnivores.
That is more accurate. I do love my vegetables too ya know.

[Millennial_Messiah]

A case could be made that we’re not truly carnivores as we have to cook most meat to eat it. That’s pretty unnatural.

A sad side effect to the vaunted "conquering" of fire by humanity.

[DAF86]

No, omnivores.


Good post, but

That is more accurate. I do love my vegetables too ya know.

You got the point, tbh.

[Spurtacular]

Rule #1) Love yourself before all else.

Diehard veganism is a scam and arguably as unhealthy as a carnivorous-only diet.

At the end of the day, humanity is the master species of this planet. Top of the food chain. Chickens are chickens, fish are fish, sheep are sheep, etc. They are meant to be herded and consumed. If you're a human, you capitalize, and don't limit yourself unless absolutely necessary to your own survival.

Even if true, there's humane ways of treating animals (including how they are killed) and there are non humane ways.
We should not be accepting barbaric practices in this day and age.

[spurraider21]

Even if true, there's humane ways of treating animals (including how they are killed) and there are non humane ways.
We should not be accepting barbaric practices in this day and age.
yep. that's how i came to where i am now.

i dont have any ethical qualms about eating meat in the abstract or anything like that.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Even if true, there's humane ways of treating animals (including how they are killed) and there are non humane ways.
We should not be accepting barbaric practices in this day and age.
Generally the guillotine treatment, or any form of decapitation resulting in instant death without suffering, is considered humane.

Torturing an animal to death is obviously both wrong and a waste of time and resources, but some Chinese people have said that it makes the meat taste better. I don't know about that.

[Spurtacular]

Generally the guillotine treatment, or any form of decapitation resulting in instant death without suffering, is considered humane.

Torturing an animal to death is obviously both wrong and a waste of time and resources, but some Chinese people have said that it makes the meat taste better. I don't know about that.

The Chinese are fucked up in the heads. I could tell you about videos of them being barbaric towards animals, but I frankly don't want to glorify their behavior in any way.

[Millennial_Messiah]

The Chinese are fucked up in the heads. I could tell you about videos of them being barbaric towards animals, but I frankly don't want to glorify their behavior in any way.
I've seen 'em. Especially what they do with dogs. A lot of them believe dogmeat is better and heartier when tortured.

[spurraider21]

Generally the guillotine treatment, or any form of decapitation resulting in instant death without suffering, is considered humane.

Torturing an animal to death is obviously both wrong and a waste of time and resources, but some Chinese people have said that it makes the meat taste better. I don't know about that.
It’s not the mode of execution that is the issue. I mean really, just take 10 minutes and google around about factory farming

[SpursforSix]

It’s not the mode of execution that is the issue. I mean really, just take 10 minutes and google around about factory farming

I think you said you were OK eating fish. From what I understand, a very large % of fish are raised in farm situations. So how do you personally justify that?

I do get it. For some reason, it's hard to feel sorry for a fish as compared to the cows and pigs you might see in a factory farming video.
But isn't it the same thing?

[spurraider21]

I think you said you were OK eating fish. From what I understand, a very large % of fish are raised in farm situations. So how do you personally justify that?

I do get it. For some reason, it's hard to feel sorry for a fish as compared to the cows and pigs you might see in a factory farming video.
But isn't it the same thing?
in some respects it is... and yeah i typically eat salmon which is frequently farmed. while i think at this point it's pretty conclusive that fish feel physical pain, i dont think we have much evidence, if at all, that they feel psychological pain whcih is a big part of factory farming too. keeping animals confined in small areas, etc. it's like when you close a door and the dog sits behind it weeping... that gets to me. i dont know that fish are capable of that kind of pain.

that distinction might not matter to me as much as at some point, but as of now, it kinda does.

[SpursforSix]

in some respects it is... and yeah i typically eat salmon which is frequently farmed. while i think at this point it's pretty conclusive that fish feel physical pain, i dont think we have much evidence, if at all, that they feel psychological pain whcih is a big part of factory farming too. keeping animals confined in small areas, etc. it's like when you close a door and the dog sits behind it weeping... that gets to me. i dont know that fish are capable of that kind of pain.

that distinction might not matter to me as much as at some point, but as of now, it kinda does.

Fair enough.

[spurraider21]

Fair enough.
i could also just be rationalizing for my own convenience. time will tell

[Millennial_Messiah]

in some respects it is... and yeah i typically eat salmon which is frequently farmed. while i think at this point it's pretty conclusive that fish feel physical pain, i dont think we have much evidence, if at all, that they feel psychological pain whcih is a big part of factory farming too. keeping animals confined in small areas, etc. it's like when you close a door and the dog sits behind it weeping... that gets to me. i dont know that fish are capable of that kind of pain.

that distinction might not matter to me as much as at some point, but as of now, it kinda does.

So in november 2014 I had to sleep in the living room of my uncle's ranch house and his dog slept in the kitchen... he was 15 years old and had bad sleep apnea, obesity and other conditions, and his snoring was awful, so I'd leave him outside in the cold just so I can sleep

The other time I think it's justified is if they do something they know they're not supposed to do, like poop or pee inside or annoy a stranger.

[SpursforSix]

i could also just be rationalizing for my own convenience. time will tell

I hear you though. I've gone through periods of not eating meat but still justifying fish and eggs. As for home, we try to buy "cage free" or "sustainable farmed" or whatever. Even though I think those are probably just meaningless labels in many cases.

But beef and chicken are pretty easy for me to pass on 99% of the time. Fish would be much harder for me to quit.

[Millennial_Messiah]

I hear you though. I've gone through periods of not eating meat but still justifying fish and eggs. As for home, we try to buy "cage free" or "sustainable farmed" or whatever. Even though I think those are probably just meaningless labels in many cases.

But beef and chicken are pretty easy for me to pass on 99% of the time. Fish would be much harder for me to quit.

agreed

you're better off just buying the 99 cents a dozen jumbo "grade A" eggs.

[SpursforSix]

agreed

you're better off just buying the 99 cents a dozen jumbo "grade A" eggs.

We have a neighbor that has a bunch of chickens so we get free fresh eggs. And I'll say definitively that there's a huge difference in taste between those and what we get in the grocery store.

[Millennial_Messiah]

We have a neighbor that has a bunch of chickens so we get free fresh eggs. And I'll say definitively that there's a huge difference in taste between those and what we get in the grocery store.

Well that always helps when you have that. Unless there's a bird flu pandemic like in (2006?), of course. Also, you probably get them pretty cheap from a neighbor because no logistics/warehousing costs.

[Darth_Pelican]

I think you said you were OK eating fish. From what I understand, a very large % of fish are raised in farm situations. So how do you personally justify that?

I do get it. For some reason, it's hard to feel sorry for a fish as compared to the cows and pigs you might see in a factory farming video.
But isn't it the same thing?

https://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-it-s-okay-to-eat-fish-because-they-don-t-have-any-feelings-kurt-cobain-5-90-41.jpg

[SpursforSix]

https://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-it-s-okay-to-eat-fish-because-they-don-t-have-any-feelings-kurt-cobain-5-90-41.jpg

I knew I was justified. Awesome.

[spurraider21]

I hear you though. I've gone through periods of not eating meat but still justifying fish and eggs. As for home, we try to buy "cage free" or "sustainable farmed" or whatever. Even though I think those are probably just meaningless labels in many cases.

But beef and chicken are pretty easy for me to pass on 99% of the time. Fish would be much harder for me to quit.
a lot of them are. cage free is probably the least helpful, because that just means they're not confined to individual cases, they could still be (and usually are) cramped as fuck.

free range and pasture free are more useful. they also are a bit more expensive. ive been buying pasture free eggs, but i think the best thing you can do is find local small farms and see where they sell their products. and even then i think the actual government regulation for those are so fringe... but there are some activist groups that certify, but again, those vary in importance and you have to be knowledgeable on whether or not its just some front for the food industry

[SpursforSix]

a lot of them are. cage free is probably the least helpful, because that just means they're not confined to individual cases, they could still be (and usually are) cramped as fuck.

free range and pasture free are more useful. they also are a bit more expensive. ive been buying pasture free eggs, but i think the best thing you can do is find local small farms and see where they sell their products. and even then i think the actual government regulation for those are so fringe... but there are some activist groups that certify, but again, those vary in importance and you have to be knowledgeable on whether or not its just some front for the food industry



This shit just isn't right. Sad af.

FMepy_THcOg

[spurraider21]

This shit just isn't right. Sad af.

FMepy_THcOg
yeah, i havent even gotten into watching animal torture vids to get to where am. it's so fucked up. but dairy has honestly been quite easy to replace with alternative products. almond milk, cashew cheese/yogurt/ice cream. kroger even sells a vegan butter. it's really been the filling nature of meat that's been hard to replace. beans are solid tho

[SpursforSix]

yeah, i havent even gotten into watching animal torture vids to get to where am. it's so fucked up. but dairy has honestly been quite easy to replace with alternative products. almond milk, cashew cheese/yogurt/ice cream. kroger even sells a vegan butter. it's really been the filling nature of meat that's been hard to replace. beans are solid tho

Yep. Dairy is an easy replacement.

I just stumbled on this video today and knew before I hit, "play" what I was going to see. And I'm sure it's not very different from the beef facilities or chicken or whatever.