Stephen Jackson: I’d take Kobe over Duncan, he was more of a leader whereas TD relied on Pop

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Was one of my favourite Spurs players back in 2003 but man are his opinions crap.

Him and Matt Barnes were in the latest Bill Simmons podcast and both had Kobe #2 all time. They say Kobe was like MJ and he would get every player on the team to fight like hell for a title whereas Duncan needed a certain set of personalities around him to make it work.


:bang

[Robz4000]

Calling Kirbs #2 all time immediately kills any credibility he has.

[LakerHater]

How does Jax know, did he play w Bean?

[Leetonidas]

He never even played with Kobe :lol didn't he once say he was just as good as him too? :lmao

Jack is so fucking desperate to stay relevant. Dude was a bit player in this leauge. Scrubs like him and Barnes shouldn't even have a podcast

[Leetonidas]

And Duncan won a ring in 3 different decades was a wide assortment of teammates. Kobe couldn't do jack shit without Phil. Captain crack needs to stfu already

[TDomination]

such a dumb statement

funny how he says that and yet kobe did absolutely nothing without phil jackson.

[dbreiden83080]

I thought Tim was like "Your Big Brother" LOL.. Heard him say that more than once..

BTW you never played with Kobe.. So how would you know?

[dbreiden83080]

He never even played with Kobe :lol didn't he once say he was just as good as him too? :lmao

Jack is so fucking desperate to stay relevant. Dude was a bit player in this leauge. Scrubs like him and Barnes shouldn't even have a podcast

He probably would have been fighting Kobe in Practice, when Kobe was giving him shit.. :lol

He also was around in 2003 to see TD Truly at his peak. We all know that Spurs team had no business winning a chip that season.. Duncan dragged that squad to a ring..

[Brazil]

:lmao

wait till some spurs fans will come here with the Jax is a moron except when the topic is Parker

[lefty]

Dincan's leadership is way better

Tim Duncan leads by exemple
The fact that he was able to put up with that ballhog Parker all these years without puching the shit out of him is really impressive

[widowmaker]

If kobe was such a leader jax should have followed him on to that helicopter then.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

:lol Oh look another salty jackass talking TD down, what a surprise.

[Thomas82]

:lol Oh look another salty jackass talking TD down, what a surprise.

What's worse is that he's talking down the man that got him his only championship ring.

[lmbebo]

Jackson was another dump it on Spurs statement ... he's got such an axe to grind because he was cut and couldn't accept he was over the hill ... His opinions aren't worth shit.

[Trueblood]

Dincan's leadership is way better

Tim Duncan leads by exemple
The fact that he was able to put up with that ballhog Parker all these years without puching the shit out of him is really impressive

^^this

Met Parker once at Tux and Tennies (if you want to call it meeting him) and I wanted to punch him too

[dbreiden83080]

:lol Oh look another salty jackass talking TD down, what a surprise.


He and Tim are supposed to be cool. He's called Tim his "Big Brother"

I get that Kobe died, but the ass kissing is a bit much.. Jackson didn't even play with Kobe. WTF does he know about his leadership?

[dbreiden83080]

Jackson was another dump it on Spurs statement ... he's got such an axe to grind because he was cut and couldn't accept he was over the hill ... His opinions aren't worth shit.

Which is funny because in 2003 he played very well, and got a ring.. So enough with the whiny BS..

[daslicer]

He and Tim are supposed to be cool. He's called Tim his "Big Brother"

I get that Kobe died, but the ass kissing is a bit much.. Jackson didn't even play with Kobe. WTF does he know about his leadership?

1. He wants to have bragging rights that he guarded Kobe and played a huge role in helping the Spurs win hence him propping up Kobe.
2. Him calling Tim his big brother than insulting him is just like how he insulted the Spurs in '18 after they traded #2. I'm paraphrasing but he said something closely to this "I love the Spurs I really do. I was close with Peter Holt's son but spur fans your team is garbage. They fucking suck and Kawhi saw that and that's why he was never going to stay. You guys weren't winning shit. Don't tell me you were winning a title.
3. I have seen through his bs for a very long time. He's a very manipulative bully.

[FkLA]

If you have Kobe Top 10 you're kind of an idiot. If you have him Top 2 you're clinically retarded.

[lefty]

^^this

Met Parker once at Tux and Tennies (if you want to call it meeting him) and I wanted to punch him too
My nigga

[daslicer]

He never even played with Kobe :lol didn't he once say he was just as good as him too? :lmao

Jack is so fucking desperate to stay relevant. Dude was a bit player in this leauge. Scrubs like him and Barnes shouldn't even have a podcast

In Jax eyes and I have heard him actually say this that he's actually a hall of fame player and there are guys who are less talented that have gotten into the HOF over him.

[daslicer]

:lmao

wait till some spurs fans will come here with the Jax is a moron except when the topic is Parker

Half of these idiots took Jax side when he went after Parker/Manu during the #2 saga.

[baseline bum]

:lmao

wait till some spurs fans will come here with the Jax is a moron except when the topic is Parker

Jack is a moron but I'll still love that motherfucker for his playoff heroics in 2003 and 2012. Shit for 2007 too. And for slamming that Detroit fan into the floor face first.

[Dverde]

Yeah I heard it. The question was who would you want to start a franchise with. That’s TD no question.

[TD 21]

Typical combination of his usual bitterness plus Duncan/the Spurs being frowned upon by the majority of inner city blacks because they don't fit their narrow minded view of blackness. Bryant, despite spending much of his youth in Italy, more closely approximates it (Jordan caricature, glamor market/position, etc.).

Notice how they ignore Simmons' point about Duncan and instead pretend Bryant, who was only interested in winning on his terms, was more of a leader than a guy who was willing to win on any terms and that having only one coach was some supposed advantage (see James) or that he wasn't the primary reason for that.

All these Duncan/Spurs shots are the result of this and not playing the game within' the game with the media. They have no one to speak their truth or push their agenda/narrative, just a bunch of stereotypes and scorned media who couldn't wait for their retirement/downfall to pounce.

[gambit1990]

SMH. the media really did a number on people.

[rascal]

I'll take Duncan over Kobe.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Typical combination of his usual bitterness plus Duncan/the Spurs being frowned upon by the majority of inner city blacks because they don't fit their narrow minded view of blackness. Bryant, despite spending much of his youth in Italy, more closely approximates it (Jordan caricature, glamor market/position, etc.).

Notice how they ignore Simmons' point about Duncan and instead pretend Bryant, who was only interested in winning on his terms, was more of a leader than a guy who was willing to win on any terms and that having only one coach was some supposed advantage (see James) or that he wasn't the primary reason for that.

All these Duncan/Spurs shots are the result of this and not playing the game within' the game with the media. They have no one to speak their truth or push their agenda/narrative, just a bunch of stereotypes and scorned media who couldn't wait for their retirement/downfall to pounce.

Gonna be lame when one day Simmons starts rating Kobe above TD as well.

[KobesAchilles]

I keep telling y’all folks that Jim’s days are numbered. Dude has nobody sticking up for him in the media. Bowen and Jax downplaying Tim. Dudes gonna be ranked behind Curry and KD within 5 years. Just watch

[Leetonidas]

I keep telling y’all folks that Jim’s days are numbered. Dude has nobody sticking up for him in the media. Bowen and Jax downplaying Tim. Dudes gonna be ranked behind Curry and KD within 5 years. Just watch

To who? Who cares what troglodyte casual fans think :lol espn literally just ranked him ahead of Kobe causing plenty of salt to dumbass kobestans

[FkLA]

I keep telling y’all folks that Jim’s days are numbered. Dude has nobody sticking up for him in the media. Bowen and Jax downplaying Tim. Dudes gonna be ranked behind Curry and KD within 5 years. Just watch

tbh what did Bowen say about the great Timothy Theodore Duncan? :ihit

[KobesAchilles]

tbh what did Bowen say about the great Timothy Theodore Duncan? :ihit
Said Kobe was the second best player ever. He was on ESPN when he said it too

[KobesAchilles]

To who? Who cares what troglodyte casual fans think :lol espn literally just ranked him ahead of Kobe causing plenty of salt to dumbass kobestans
Look at Bill Russell’s face when people say Wilt is better. Shaq got all pissed off bc he was 10. Guarantee you it bothers Tim when people say KG is better (and as stupid as it sounds here, a lot of people do say that). These players are all competitive as hell and they care. Except maybe Bird

Tim is obviously the better leader though and Bill won’t say it bc Kobe died but Kobe has plenty of former teammates saying that he was aloof and didn’t talk in his early days. He snitched on Shaq. Phil wrote and entire fucking book about how bad of a teammate Kobe was. People forget these things.

[FkLA]

Said Kobe was the second best player ever. He was on ESPN when he said it too

No fucking way. That's disgusting. Link?

If true this goes for Bruce too:


If you have Kobe Top 10 you're kind of an idiot. If you have him Top 2 you're clinically retarded.

[RC_Drunkford]

Kobe ain't even a top 3 Laker of all time

[DMC]

Kobe wouldn't have wanted to play with him. He couldn't even get on the bench that TOSB McGrady was occupying.

[daslicer]

No fucking way. That's disgusting. Link?

If true this goes for Bruce too:

Here is the link

Npef-CK0wGw

[Arcadian]

Nope. Tim the better player, Tim the better leader.

You know how I know Tim was a better leader? Other players actually liked playing with him. He broke the mold of the traditional "asshole leader" and proved you can be a likable guy and a dedicated winner.

[lmbebo]

Which is funny because in 2003 he played very well, and got a ring.. So enough with the whiny BS..

He was angry he didn't get paid after 2003. Then got pissed off the Spurs chose Manu over him in 2012? 2013? He became an issue that Spurs cut his ass right before the playoffs... He was done and couldn't accept it. I think he played a few games with Clippers.

[lefty]

This nikka used Sloan’s passing to prove a point

What a piece of sh :lol

[ElNono]

Dincan's leadership is way better

Tim Duncan leads by exemple
The fact that he was able to put up with that ballhog Parker all these years without puching the shit out of him is really impressive


Jack is a moron but I'll still love that motherfucker for his playoff heroics in 2003 and 2012. Shit for 2007 too. And for slamming that Detroit fan into the floor face first.

dis...

[daslicer]

This nikka used Sloan’s passing to prove a point

What a piece of sh :lol

What did he say about Sloan?

[dbreiden83080]

I keep telling y’all folks that Jim’s days are numbered. Dude has nobody sticking up for him in the media. Bowen and Jax downplaying Tim. Dudes gonna be ranked behind Curry and KD within 5 years. Just watch

It would be nice if the media stop constantly overrating Magic And Bird. Yes they were both incredibly great players in the 1980s. But my god they both played on unbelievably stacked teams.

[FkLA]

Here is the link

Npef-CK0wGw

smh Bruce

I'm so disappointed in him. Like there is literally no justifiable reason to have Kobe anywhere near the #2 spot. His advanced stats don't add up, he wasn't efficient enough, his numbers in the clutch/elimination games were horrible despite his reputation as some fearless closer. I know he died but ffs stop with the pity rankings.

[daslicer]

smh Bruce

I'm so disappointed in him. Like there is literally no justifiable reason to have Kobe anywhere near the #2 spot. His advanced stats don't add up, he wasn't efficient enough, his numbers in the clutch/elimination games were horrible despite his reputation as some fearless closer. I know he died but ffs stop with the pity rankings.

It's all ego just like it is with Jax. Bruce wants to be able to say to his kids and his family that he guarded the second greatest player of all time granted I don't agree with that assessment. I can't hate on Bruce only because I met him a year ago in Charlotte during the ASG. He was very nice and friendly towards me when I met him in a bar. With that being said I do strongly disagree with him on him ranking Kobe at #2.

[lefty]

What did he say about Sloan?

On Twitter:

Always told me I was a tuff SOB and actually tried to get me to Utah a few times. One of the very few coaches that knew I could play this game. Rest Easy Coach Sloan. #GBG instagram.com/p/CAfpv6wl4TE/…

[TDfan2007]

SJax and Barnes are Neanderthals, so the Kobe/Jordan school of leadership is what works best for them. It doesn't work for everyone though, and Tim was clearly the better leader between the two.

Anyway, it looks like Timmy's fate has been sealed by the media/popular opinion. They're always going to use Pop, Manu, and Tony to bring him down, when his personality and style of play is the very thing that allowed that foursome to work so damn well together. They have to make him top 10 only because his ridiculous list of accomplishments is too great to ignore, but he's not regarded in the vein of Kobe/Magic/Bird and he never will be. Kareem, Hakeem, and even Shaq to a degree don't get that kind of love either, tbh. Big man bias is real.

[Texas_Ranger]

if you'd start a franchise with Kobe instead of Tim you gotta be retarded.

[DAF86]

Why do people give a fuck about what this guy has to say? He's clearly in the bottom half of human IQ, tbh.

[lmbebo]

Other thing to consider is that ESPN may be writing there opinions ... remember Elliott complaining about having to always say what ESPN wanted him to say even when it was supposed to be his thoughts ...

[spurs50_]

I thought he gave up crack...

[spursfan09]

What makes him worthy of a platform to speak about these things anyways? What did he do that was so great? Just a role player.

[lefty]

What makes him worthy of a platform to speak about these things anyways? What did he do that was so great? Just a role player.

I appreciate his contribution to the 03 title he mad big shots for us and he had an edge to him the kind of edge that you sometime needs in playoff battles

Jax is just bitter he didn’t stay in San Antonio after the 03 title
He was finally in a good situation after being an NBA reject, and he won a ring against a team that fut him

He’s just salty

[daslicer]

Other thing to consider is that ESPN may be writing there opinions ... remember Elliott complaining about having to always say what ESPN wanted him to say even when it was supposed to be his thoughts ...

In an article about a month ago Elliott mentioned that way back in '03 during the summertime after the Spurs second title that they were a bunch of people at ESPN that felt Duncan was still not a hall of famer. According to Sean they all believed that he only won because he had David Robinson. Goes to show you how stupid those guys are.

[daslicer]

What makes him worthy of a platform to speak about these things anyways? What did he do that was so great? Just a role player.

He pretty much got his platform from insulting the Spurs. He took advantage of the media's hatred for the Spurs and booked a bunch of appearances on ESPN and Fox Sports during the #2 saga and spoke out against the Spurs.

[DMC]

smh Bruce

I'm so disappointed in him. Like there is literally no justifiable reason to have Kobe anywhere near the #2 spot. His advanced stats don't add up, he wasn't efficient enough, his numbers in the clutch/elimination games were horrible despite his reputation as some fearless closer. I know he died but ffs stop with the pity rankings.

Bruce trying to get back into the good graces of LA owners.

[From Downtown]

SJax and Barnes are Neanderthals, so the Kobe/Jordan school of leadership is what works best for them. It doesn't work for everyone though, and Tim was clearly the better leader between the two.

Anyway, it looks like Timmy's fate has been sealed by the media/popular opinion. They're always going to use Pop, Manu, and Tony to bring him down, when his personality and style of play is the very thing that allowed that foursome to work so damn well together. They have to make him top 10 only because his ridiculous list of accomplishments is too great to ignore, but he's not regarded in the vein of Kobe/Magic/Bird and he never will be. Kareem, Hakeem, and even Shaq to a degree don't get that kind of love either, tbh. Big man bias is real.

This is sadly true for a variety of reasons, although I feel like he'll always be regarded as a Top 10 player by experts, just not by casual fans
I'm not sure bout how much he really cares tho, in the end he choose the low profile and what they built here in SA was pretty special and rewarding

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

I’m not surprised Jackson said that he would take Kobe. Him and Kobe knew each other since high school, were friends and respected each other a lot. I honestly think he does have a lot of love for Timmy and Pop but like many have stated his time in San Antonio got cut short multiple times and both times were not on the nicest of terms.

This is his opinion but like you guys I think he is wrong

[Bill_Brasky]

I know this is gonna come as a huge surprise to all of yall, but these guys will say things that they don't really believe on TV for money.

[baseline bum]

Now we just need TP to say Kemba Walker was better than Tim.

[TDfan2007]

In fairness to Sjax, there's a video out there of him defending Tim as for sure top 10 and calling him a "killer." There's another video of him describing how playing with Timmy was his first look at true greatness. I think that what he said speaks more to his preferred leadership style and reverence for Kobe than it does for how he feels about Timmy, and that's fine.

[daslicer]

In fairness to Sjax, there's a video out there of him defending Tim as for sure top 10 and calling him a "killer." There's another video of him describing how playing with Timmy was his first look at true greatness. I think that what he said speaks more to his preferred leadership style and reverence for Kobe than it does for how he feels about Timmy, and that's fine.

He's also been saying for the whole entire year that Anthony Davis is Tim Duncan on steroids which is bullshit.

[daslicer]

I know this is gonna come as a huge surprise to all of yall, but these guys will say things that they don't really believe on TV for money.

Agreed. If anything it shows which guys are broke and are not broke. The guys who say stupid stuff that is off the wall you can tell they are having financial problems.

[Bill_Brasky]

Agreed. If anything it shows which guys are broke and are not broke. The guys who say stupid stuff that is off the wall you can tell they are having financial problems.

I personally like RJ as a TV personality. There was a segment where he was roasting TD but you could tell it was tongue in cheek and he was clearly mocking the "hot take" guys with his delivery. If you didn't know his personality you woulda thought he was a TD hater.

[daslicer]

I personally like RJ as a TV personality. There was a segment where he was roasting TD but you could tell it was tongue in cheek and he was clearly mocking the "hot take" guys with his delivery. If you didn't know his personality you woulda thought he was a TD hater.

I have known for years RJ is a very sarcastic guy so I have laughed when he was thrown jabs at Duncan. RJ actually had the best interview of Duncan that I have ever seen a few years ago on his podcast.

[SayTown]

He also said the Pacers would have took out the Spurs in the finals if he wouldn't have went in the stands in Detroit. So we have Jack to thank for the 05 ring, also he said it was Danny Granger's rookie year that year although Granger was still in college that year ha.

[heyheymymy]

I always hated kobe but i respected his game. That said you can't ball out in L.A. because anything youve done you didn't do, L.A. did.

Try going to a shithole like S.A. and win a ring with bonner and then you really did something.

If kobe was such a killer why was he playing for a readymade?

[ElNono]

Now we just need TP to say Kemba Walker was better than Tim.

Would it surprise you at all? This is the guy that quit on TD and Manu before '14...

[Spurtacular]

Stephen Jackson would've been a Smush Parker scapegoat on a non Shaq or Gasol led team that featured Kobe.

[TDfan2007]

He's also been saying for the whole entire year that Anthony Davis is Tim Duncan on steroids which is bullshit.

Yeah, not sure where he gets that from. I'd say he's more like KG on steroids. Maybe Jax just mentions Timmy because he's the GOAT PF. Who knows. There's no doubt that AD is one of the most skilled bigs in the history of the game though.

I've personally never seen a big with his combo of size, handle, shooting touch, and athleticism

[TD 21]

Yeah, not sure where he gets that from. I'd say he's more like KG on steroids. Maybe Jax just mentions Timmy because he's the GOAT PF. Who knows. There's no doubt that AD is one of the most skilled bigs in the history of the game though.

I've personally never seen a big with his combo of size, handle, shooting touch, and athleticism

Yeah, the Duncan comparison has been around for years because of the PF label, but Davis is definitely more like Robinson and Garnett than he is Olajuwon and Duncan.

Like them, despite the all-time regular season catch all metrics, his game isn't suited to being an offensive hub for a championship caliber team. A big can (could?) only be that as a dominant back to the basket scorer.

[lefty]

Even Stephen Jackson has better leadership than Duncan tbh:

1266438078392086539

1266425926159675393

[TDfan2007]

Even Stephen Jackson has better leadership than Duncan tbh:

1266438078392086539

1266425926159675393

Props to him for stepping up and speaking out, tbh. Those were some truth nukes.

[daslicer]

Even Stephen Jackson has better leadership than Duncan tbh:

1266438078392086539

1266425926159675393

He displayed his leadership a few years ago when the VI suffered major damage from Hurricane Irma and Maria.

TZYVAofWz_w

[widowmaker]

He displayed his leadership a few years ago when the VI suffered major damage from Hurricane Irma and Maria.

TZYVAofWz_w

Can he stop his community from destroying the place they live in? Can he possibly speak to his community about staying in school and hopefully become productive and make decent living so they don’t have to rob and steal and eventually get busted? If immigrants from another country can come and make something out of themselves there is no reason an American born citizen can’t do the same.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Can he stop his community from destroying the place they live in? Can he possibly speak to his community about staying in school and hopefully become productive and make decent living so they don’t have to rob and steal and eventually get busted? If immigrants from another country can come and make something out of themselves there is no reason an American born citizen can’t do the same.

“his community”?

you mean san antonio?


*also lmao lmao about the ‘immigrant’ from US Virgin Islands

[daslicer]

Can he stop his community from destroying the place they live in? Can he possibly speak to his community about staying in school and hopefully become productive and make decent living so they don’t have to rob and steal and eventually get busted? If immigrants from another country can come and make something out of themselves there is no reason an American born citizen can’t do the same.

I didn’t know people in the VI like to destroy their island. I didn’t know school drop out rates are high in the VI. I also didn’t know there is a large immigration to the VI. Overall stupid post by you.

[widowmaker]

I didn’t know people in the VI like to destroy their island. I didn’t know school drop out rates are high in the VI. I also didn’t know there is a large immigration to the VI. Overall stupid post by you.

I was i was talking about Stephen Jackson there buddy.

[widowmaker]

“his community”?

you mean san antonio?


*also lmao lmao about the ‘immigrant’ from US Virgin Islands

I was i was talking about Stephen Jackson there buddy.

[hitmantb]

Players overvalue 1v1 capabilities. I rank 2003 Duncan below 2001 Shaq and 1995 Hakeem in pure 1v1 situations. However 2003 Tim's 5v5 capabilities are second to none, that team was NOT supposed to ring. Manu and especially Tony really flourished with Tim because Tim did all the little things that don't show up on stat sheets, like being one of the GOAT screeners, incredibly underrated TEAM defense, and give other players enough shots. Stat padding is extremely misleading, Russell Westbrook despite averaging triple double can not get out of the first round of the playoffs. LeBron despite playing stacked roster for a decade only has 3 rings and was extremely lucky to win 2 of them.

There is also a leadership aura around Tim that boosts locker room stability and team morale. Hakeem was without a doubt a negative in both. 2 MVP + 3 FMVP > 1 MVP + 2 FMVP. And as much as I hate to say it, I wish Tim was more selfish in 2007 to get at least one more FMVP. He would be top 5 all time soon. Hopefully once stat padders like LeBron retire, people can look at Tim's intangibles and realize how special it is to win 5 rings in a small market that never ringed before, and most likely will not ring again in our life time.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Players overvalue 1v1 capabilities. I rank 2003 Duncan below 2001 Shaq and 1995 Hakeem in pure 1v1 situations. However 2003 Tim's 5v5 capabilities are second to none, that team was NOT supposed to ring. Manu and especially Tony really flourished with Tim because Tim did all the little things that don't show up on stat sheets, like being one of the GOAT screeners, incredibly underrated TEAM defense, and give other players enough shots. Stat padding is extremely misleading, Russell Westbrook despite averaging triple double can not get out of the first round of the playoffs. LeBron despite playing stacked roster for a decade only has 3 rings and was extremely lucky to win 2 of them.

There is also a leadership aura around Tim that boosts locker room stability and team morale. Hakeem was without a doubt a negative in both. 2 MVP + 3 FMVP > 1 MVP + 2 FMVP. And as much as I hate to say it, I wish Tim was more selfish in 2007 to get at least one more FMVP. He would be top 5 all time soon. Hopefully once stat padders like LeBron retire, people can look at Tim's intangibles and realize how special it is to win 5 rings in a small market that never ringed before, and most likely will not ring again in our life time.

i take pre 2000 knee injury duncan over any version of duncan...he was more quicker, athletic, had a bad ass low post spin move which were always and1 plays, reliable bankshot, reliable ft fg

[TD4THREE]

i take pre 2000 knee injury duncan over any version of duncan...he was more quicker, athletic, had a bad ass low post spin move which were always and1 plays, reliable bankshot, reliable ft fg

Alot of people talk about his injury in 2000 like it was some catastrophic knee injury. A torn meniscus especially one that is surgically repaired is usually not even a season ending injury, Duncan could have even played that year, but the spurs wisely decided to shut him down instead.

I really noticed Tim's athleticism start to decline rapidly in 06-08 from a combination of chronic ailments (plantar fasciitis, and Tendinosis in his right quad) and being on the wrong side of 30, that was when he started wearing that gigantic knee brace I believe.

[Thomas82]

Alot of people talk about his injury in 2000 like it was some catastrophic knee injury. A torn meniscus especially one that is surgically repaired is usually not even a season ending injury, Duncan could have even played that year, but the spurs wisely decided to shut him down instead.

I really noticed Tim's athleticism start to decline rapidly in 06-08 from a combination of chronic ailments (plantar fasciitis, and Tendinosis in his right quad) and being on the wrong side of 30, that was when he started wearing that gigantic knee brace I believe.

Didn't he have a partial menisectomy? I would think that robbed him of a lot of his athleticism.

[TD4THREE]

Didn't he have a partial menisectomy? I would think that robbed him of a lot of his athleticism.Yes but that's failry common with meniscus injuries and Duncan's was described as very mild with most of the Meniscus able to be repaired. D-Wade had one of his meniscus completely removed in 2002 for comparison. Westbrook had a partial menisectomy in 2013, as did Blake Griffin, Ron Artest, Chris Paul and several other stars. It happens to pretty much all of them at some point in time. It's really an injury that's going to be felt more later in the player's career with arthritis flare ups rather than a sudden decrease in athleticism.

I myself didn't notice any drop off from 2000 to 2001 in terms of Duncan's mobility, alot of people seem to disagree though. 2002 was his athletic peak IMO, he was stronger and bulkier than he was in 99 and could out muscle smaller defenders down low but still retained his quickness to face up and drive past other bigs.

[daslicer]

Yes but that's failry common with meniscus injuries and Duncan's was described as very mild with most of the Meniscus able to be repaired. D-Wade had one of his meniscus completely removed in 2002 for comparison. Westbrook had a partial menisectomy in 2013, as did Blake Griffin, Ron Artest, Chris Paul and several other stars. It happens to pretty much all of them at some point in time. It's really an injury that's going to be felt more later in the player's career with arthritis flare ups rather than a sudden decrease in athleticism.

I myself didn't notice any drop off from 2000 to 2001 in terms of Duncan's mobility, alot of people seem to disagree though. 2002 was his athletic peak IMO, he was stronger and bulkier than he was in 99 and could out muscle smaller defenders down low but still retained his quickness to face up and drive past other bigs.

Agreed. I was going to bring up examples of Westbrook and Wade. There meniscus tears were worse and they also had them at a young age but still kept their athleticism until they hit their early 30's. Granted Westbrook still has it now but he's starting to decline. I felt 2007 was the year where I felt Duncan lost a great deal of athleticism but prior to that I didn't notice a drop off.

[Thomas82]

Yes but that's failry common with meniscus injuries and Duncan's was described as very mild with most of the Meniscus able to be repaired. D-Wade had one of his meniscus completely removed in 2002 for comparison. Westbrook had a partial menisectomy in 2013, as did Blake Griffin, Ron Artest, Chris Paul and several other stars. It happens to pretty much all of them at some point in time. It's really an injury that's going to be felt more later in the player's career with arthritis flare ups rather than a sudden decrease in athleticism.

I myself didn't notice any drop off from 2000 to 2001 in terms of Duncan's mobility, alot of people seem to disagree though. 2002 was his athletic peak IMO, he was stronger and bulkier than he was in 99 and could out muscle smaller defenders down low but still retained his quickness to face up and drive past other bigs.

Well from what I remember, TD himself (and doctors) have been on record saying that he was scared he would never play again after the injury. If I'm missing something, let me know. I don't mind being corrected.

[TD4THREE]

Well from what I remember, TD himself (and doctors) have been on record saying that he was scared he would never play again after the injury. If I'm missing something, let me know. I don't mind being corrected.

Duncan was wanting to play in the playoffs that year, a little over a week after the injury he was running up and down the court trying to show he was good to go.

" 'I was doing everything I could to get ready to play,' Duncan said.

He ran sprints up and down the court to show he could still move. But there was a loose bit of cartilage flapping around in his knee. The joint could have locked up at any moment."

https://www.espn.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story (https://www.espn.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story/_/page/AdandeDuncan-120519/nba-playoffs-decision-rest-tim-duncan-2000-injury-pays-off)

[Spurs Homer]

Timmy never RAPED!

End of discussion.

[Thomas82]

Duncan was wanting to play in the playoffs that year, a little over a week after the injury he was running up and down the court trying to show he was good to go.

" 'I was doing everything I could to get ready to play,' Duncan said.

He ran sprints up and down the court to show he could still move. But there was a loose bit of cartilage flapping around in his knee. The joint could have locked up at any moment."

https://www.espn.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story (https://www.espn.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story/_/page/AdandeDuncan-120519/nba-playoffs-decision-rest-tim-duncan-2000-injury-pays-off)

That part I do remember. They just made it sound like his career was in jeopardy after the injury.

[dbreiden83080]

When Exactly was Kobe a leader BTW? When he was running Shaq out of town?

[TDfan2007]

Didn't he have a partial menisectomy? I would think that robbed him of a lot of his athleticism.


Alot of people talk about his injury in 2000 like it was some catastrophic knee injury. A torn meniscus especially one that is surgically repaired is usually not even a season ending injury, Duncan could have even played that year, but the spurs wisely decided to shut him down instead.

I really noticed Tim's athleticism start to decline rapidly in 06-08 from a combination of chronic ailments (plantar fasciitis, and Tendinosis in his right quad) and being on the wrong side of 30, that was when he started wearing that gigantic knee brace I believe.


Agreed. I was going to bring up examples of Westbrook and Wade. There meniscus tears were worse and they also had them at a young age but still kept their athleticism until they hit their early 30's. Granted Westbrook still has it now but he's starting to decline. I felt 2007 was the year where I felt Duncan lost a great deal of athleticism but prior to that I didn't notice a drop off.

Most athletes can recover from meniscal injuries in the short term, but tearing your meniscus puts you at increased risk for arthritis in your knee, especially as an athlete. Tim played both ends of the court, played international ball in his prime, and was a notoriously intense off-season trainer. Not a good combo.

As a result, he developed tendonosis AND arthritis in his surgically repaired knee around 2008-2009, and it got worse what worse. Personally, I first noticed a drop-off in the 2008 playoffs (he had ZERO lift in the Lakers series and couldn't contest shots at the basket as well). The point of that brace he started using in 2011 was to prevent him from going into full knee extension, which would worsen the arthritic pain.

This is why later in his career he relied less on his jump hook or left shoulder turnarounds (you have to plant on your left leg for those shots), which led to a more predictable post game.

[Thomas82]

Most athletes can recover from meniscal injuries in the short term, but tearing your meniscus puts you at increased risk for arthritis in your knee, especially as an athlete. Tim played both ends of the court, played international ball in his prime, and was a notoriously intense off-season trainer. Not a good combo.

As a result, he developed tendonosis AND arthritis in his surgically repaired knee around 2008-2009, and it got worse what worse. Personally, I first noticed a drop-off in the 2008 playoffs (he had ZERO lift in the Lakers series and couldn't contest shots at the basket as well). The point of that brace he started using in 2011 was to prevent him from going into full knee extension, which would worsen the arthritic pain.

This is why later in his career he relied less on his jump hook or left shoulder turnarounds (you have to plant on your left leg for those shots), which led to a more predictable post game.

Thanks for your valuable input!! This only enhances his greatness in my eyes.

[TDfan2007]

Thanks for your valuable input!! This only enhances his greatness in my eyes.

Anytime! I'm a resident physician with a physical therapy background, so I was learning about those injuries as Tim was experiencing them.

Imo what Tim was able to accomplish on only 1 fully functional knee was nothing short of incredible. He was his team's best player in multiple playoff runs, maintained all star level performance, and even pulled off one superstar-level season that almost ended with a ring and finals MVP.

The guy literally had to adjust his shooting form and reinvent his game to account for his bum leg.

[Thomas82]

Anytime! I'm a resident physician with a physical therapy background, so I was learning about those injuries as Tim was experiencing them.

Imo what Tim was able to accomplish on only 1 fully functional knee was nothing short of incredible. He was his team's best player in multiple playoff runs, maintained all star level performance, and even pulled off one superstar-level season that almost ended with a ring and finals MVP.

The guy literally had to adjust his shooting form and reinvent his game to account for his bum leg.

Here's a Facebook post of me explaining to a younger Spurs fan how significant Tim's comeback was from the injury:

Because Tim Duncan had such a long and successful career, there is one important thing that people either don't realize or eventually forget: he played most of his career on 1 good leg. Having a physical disadvantage that kept him from reaching his true potential and still having the career he had only enhances his greatness in my eyes. This ABSOLUTELY has to be factored into the equation when you analyze TD's career and compare him to other all-time greats. Why? TD was only at his best physically for the first 3 years of his career.

People are comparing the Tim Duncan of his last 16 years to the peaks of those other greats (on 2 good legs) without the benefit of being able to see him at the height of his powers with both legs being healthy while all of his physical tools are on full display. This is why I can't automatically agree when people say some of these other all-time greats are better than TD. That's when I get accused of being biased. Maybe some of those guys were more physically talented than TD, but because of how important the entire package is, that's of limited value. It's also practically impossible to prove because of TD only having 1 healthy leg.

Let's look at what Tim Duncan accomplished after his knee injury:

- 4 championships
-2 MVPs
-2 NBA Finals MVPs
-13 All-Star selections
-12 All-NBA selections
-12 NBA All-Defensive Team selections

There are players in the Hall Of Fame......LOTS OF THEM, who ended their careers reasonably healthy and don't have a resume like this period. TD accomplished all of that in a diminished physical state. Again, this should be weighed heavily in discussions for the greatest player ever. With all due respect to what "The Immortal 6" accomplished in their careers and what they did for the game, I don't remember watching or reading anything about any of them racking up credentials like that while dragging around a semi-useless knee for roughly 85% of their careers. In fact, with the exception of Kareem, TD played longer on 1 leg than the rest of them played their whole careers with 2 legs.

[tholdren]

terrible edgelord take by Jackson. Who was softer than Tiago his second go around. He's about mcdyess level spur

[J_Paco]

Here's a Facebook post of me explaining to a younger Spurs fan how significant Tim's comeback was from the injury:

Because Tim Duncan had such a long and successful career, there is one important thing that people either don't realize or eventually forget: he played most of his career on 1 good leg. Having a physical disadvantage that kept him from reaching his true potential and still having the career he had only enhances his greatness in my eyes. This ABSOLUTELY has to be factored into the equation when you analyze TD's career and compare him to other all-time greats. Why? TD was only at his best physically for the first 3 years of his career.

People are comparing the Tim Duncan of his last 16 years to the peaks of those other greats (on 2 good legs) without the benefit of being able to see him at the height of his powers with both legs being healthy while all of his physical tools are on full display. This is why I can't automatically agree when people say some of these other all-time greats are better than TD. That's when I get accused of being biased. Maybe some of those guys were more physically talented than TD, but because of how important the entire package is, that's of limited value. It's also practically impossible to prove because of TD only having 1 healthy leg.

Let's look at what Tim Duncan accomplished after his knee injury:

- 4 championships
-2 MVPs
-2 NBA Finals MVPs
-13 All-Star selections
-12 All-NBA selections
-12 NBA All-Defensive Team selections

There are players in the Hall Of Fame......LOTS OF THEM, who ended their careers reasonably healthy and don't have a resume like this period. TD accomplished all of that in a diminished physical state. Again, this should be weighed heavily in discussions for the greatest player ever. With all due respect to what "The Immortal 6" accomplished in their careers and what they did for the game, I don't remember watching or reading anything about any of them racking up credentials like that while dragging around a semi-useless knee for roughly 85% of their careers. In fact, with the exception of Kareem, TD played longer on 1 leg than the rest of them played their whole careers with 2 legs.

Funny because with Bird the back injury was highly publicized and is constantly brought up.

I wonder why Timmy isn't afforded the same?

I love Magic Johnson, yet there is no way anyone will ever convince me that either he or Bird is better than Duncan.

I know it has been mentioned a million times over, but had Timmy played in Boston, New York, Chicago or Los Angeles his legacy would be looked at quite differently.

[baseline bum]

Funny because with Bird the back injury was highly publicized and is constantly brought up.

I wonder why Timmy isn't afforded the same?

I love Magic Johnson, yet there is no way anyone will ever convince me that either he or Bird is better than Duncan.

I know it has been mentioned a million times over, but had Timmy played in Boston, New York, Chicago or Los Angeles his legacy would be looked at quite differently.

Simmons was pretty much the only one in the media who ever brought up how Tim was playing on basically one leg and how much it blew him away to see Duncan live, doing what he was doing, just dragging that bad leg. As soon as he hurt his good knee in 2015-16 I knew that was it. :depressed

[Thomas82]

Funny because with Bird the back injury was highly publicized and is constantly brought up.

I wonder why Timmy isn't afforded the same?

I love Magic Johnson, yet there is no way anyone will ever convince me that either he or Bird is better than Duncan.

I know it has been mentioned a million times over, but had Timmy played in Boston, New York, Chicago or Los Angeles his legacy would be looked at quite differently.

Man preach!! The double standards that Tim gets held to are ridiculous. I also can't put Magic or Larry Larry ahead of him. Neither of them were 2-way players

[Thomas82]

Simmons was pretty much the only one in the media who ever brought up how Tim was playing on basically one leg and how much it blew him away to see Duncan live, doing what he was doing, just dragging that bad leg. As soon as he hurt his good knee in 2015-16 I knew that was it. :depressed

Facts!!

[Rosewood]

Timmy never RAPED!

End of discussion. :lol i was looking for this.

[DAF86]

Spurs fans need to go to this video and hit the like button to show appreciation for a truth speaking vídeo:

TfGfZ9ZkA-w

[callo1]

TD was never Jackson's type of guy tbh. This is about nothing more than that.