crime in Camden, NJ fell 50% after police was de funded

[Trill Clinton]

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/01/what-happened-to-crime-in-camden/549542/


What Happened to Crime in Camden?
Often ranked as one of the deadliest cities in America, Camden, New Jersey, ended 2017 with its lowest homicide rate since the 1980s.


When Camden, New Jersey’s Chief of Police J. Scott Thomson joined the Camden police force as an officer 25 years ago, there were 175 open-air drug markets lining just nine square miles of streets. The murder rates in this city of 75,000 just across the Delaware River from Philadelphia regularly climbed to more than six times the national average. “Criminals operated with impunity,” Thomson said.

After a particularly deadly year in 1995, Camden’s Cathedral of Immaculate Conception began illuminating one candle (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/new_jersey/camdens-homicide-numbers-the-lowest-in-decades-20171230.html) for each homicide victim. In 2012, the year ended with 67 candles—a rate of about 87 murders per 100,000 residents, which ranked Camden fifth nationwide.

But on New Year’s 2018, just 22 candles were lit: The city’s murder rate fell to its lowest since 1987. The number of annual killings has been in decline since 2012; so have robberies, aggravated assaults, violent crimes, property crimes, and non-fatal shooting incidents.

So what’s happening in this city, which for many years has been deemed among the dangerous in America? Thomson, who took the helm of the Camden police force in 2008, says the biggest factor may have been the change in structure of the department itself. In 2013, the Camden Police Department was disbanded, reimagined, and born again as the Camden County Police Department, with more officers at lower pay—and a strategic shift toward “community policing (https://www.citylab.com/equity/2015/05/warriors-vs-guardians/392600/).”

That meant focusing on rebuilding trust between the community and their officers.

“For us to make the neighborhood look and feel the way everyone wanted it to, it wasn’t going to be achieved by having a police officer with a helmet and a shotgun standing on a corner,” Thomson said. Now, he wants his officers “to identify more with being in the Peace Corps than being in the Special Forces.”

A conversation with Thomson about community policing is likely to involve many such catchy maxims. “Destabilized communities,” he told me, “need guardians, not warriors.” He explained the “Back to the Future Paradox”—use technology wisely, but pair it with regular-old “Bobbies on the street.” And he stressed the idea that public safety is about access to social services, economic rejuvenation, and good schools, not just cops: “Nothing stops a bullet like a job.”

It’s policing turned poetry, and his officers, too, have internalized it in their training. “The old police mantra was make it home safely,” Camden police officer Tyrell Bagby told the New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/02/nyregion/camden-nj-police-shootings.html) in April. “Now we’re being taught not only should we make it home safely, but so should the victim and the suspect.”

According to Camden’s mayor, Frank Moran, this ethos also extends outside of patrol hours. “These guys are more than just reporting 9-to-5 in uniform,” he told me. “They’re taking their own time and being mentors in the community. That speaks volumes.”

Click on Link for rest of article.

[LkrFan]

Truth bombs. But I'm sure some whitey who benefits from not being racially profiled by crooked white cops will disagree. SMH

[DarrinS]

more officers at lower pay

They replaced their police dept.

[rmt]

CORRECTION: This story has been amended to correct the change in officer count after the police department was disbanded and rebuilt. The new department had more officers, not fewer - maybe people ought to use a different word than defunding because I'm sure this costs MORE - not less or nil.

[Trill Clinton]

CORRECTION: This story has been amended to correct the change in officer count after the police department was disbanded and rebuilt. The new department had more officers, not fewer - maybe people ought to use a different word than defunding because I'm sure this costs MORE - not less or nil.

Nobody is saying we need LESS police https://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/snoop.png

minneapolis is kicking the police out of their city. instead of paying out of shape, lazy and racist cops 60-70K. The Rambo approach isn't working and re-directing resources in community identified needs is the right way. No way should a cop with a HS diploma and PTSD from wars make more than a school teacher.

[Gaylord M. Focker]

Trump/Fox News know all this, but “THEY WANNA TAKE COPS AWAY” is a better way to scare rich white people.

[LkrFan]

Trump/Fox News know all this, but “THEY WANNA TAKE COPS AWAY” is a better way to scare rich white people.

Great point Focker :tu

[LkrFan]

https://twitter.com/AnnaHorford/status/1270347867056734209?s=19

[Gaylord M. Focker]

Great point Focker :tu

You can milk anything with nipples, Alejandro.

[SnakeBoy]

Nobody is saying we need LESS police https://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/snoop.png

minneapolis is kicking the police out of their city. instead of paying out of shape, lazy and racist cops 60-70K. The Rambo approach isn't working and re-directing resources in community identified needs is the right way. No way should a cop with a HS diploma and PTSD from wars make more than a school teacher.

So defund the police means a larger and more professional police force?

[Gaylord M. Focker]

So defund the police means a larger and more professional police force?

Accidentally coming to the right conclusion.

[LkrFan]

You can milk anything with nipples, Alejandro.

:lol

I got nipples. Can you milk me Muther Focker? :rollin :lmao :rollin

[chunticakes]

Nobody is saying we need LESS police https://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/snoop.png

minneapolis is kicking the police out of their city. instead of paying out of shape, lazy and racist cops 60-70K. The Rambo approach isn't working and re-directing resources in community identified needs is the right way. No way should a cop with a HS diploma and PTSD from wars make more than a school teacher.

I've always wondered why they allow kids straight out of high school to be cops, tbh. You can't tell me a couple of weeks at an academy is enough education or training.

[Chris]

John Oliver :lol

[Chris]

So defund the police means a larger and more professional police force?

yes and less racist too :tu

[RandomGuy]

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/01/what-happened-to-crime-in-camden/549542/


What Happened to Crime in Camden?
Often ranked as one of the deadliest cities in America, Camden, New Jersey, ended 2017 with its lowest homicide rate since the 1980s.


When Camden, New Jersey’s Chief of Police J. Scott Thomson joined the Camden police force as an officer 25 years ago, there were 175 open-air drug markets lining just nine square miles of streets. The murder rates in this city of 75,000 just across the Delaware River from Philadelphia regularly climbed to more than six times the national average. “Criminals operated with impunity,” Thomson said.

After a particularly deadly year in 1995, Camden’s Cathedral of Immaculate Conception began illuminating one candle (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/new_jersey/camdens-homicide-numbers-the-lowest-in-decades-20171230.html) for each homicide victim. In 2012, the year ended with 67 candles—a rate of about 87 murders per 100,000 residents, which ranked Camden fifth nationwide.

But on New Year’s 2018, just 22 candles were lit: The city’s murder rate fell to its lowest since 1987. The number of annual killings has been in decline since 2012; so have robberies, aggravated assaults, violent crimes, property crimes, and non-fatal shooting incidents.

So what’s happening in this city, which for many years has been deemed among the dangerous in America? Thomson, who took the helm of the Camden police force in 2008, says the biggest factor may have been the change in structure of the department itself. In 2013, the Camden Police Department was disbanded, reimagined, and born again as the Camden County Police Department, with more officers at lower pay—and a strategic shift toward “community policing (https://www.citylab.com/equity/2015/05/warriors-vs-guardians/392600/).”

That meant focusing on rebuilding trust between the community and their officers.

“For us to make the neighborhood look and feel the way everyone wanted it to, it wasn’t going to be achieved by having a police officer with a helmet and a shotgun standing on a corner,” Thomson said. Now, he wants his officers “to identify more with being in the Peace Corps than being in the Special Forces.”

A conversation with Thomson about community policing is likely to involve many such catchy maxims. “Destabilized communities,” he told me, “need guardians, not warriors.” He explained the “Back to the Future Paradox”—use technology wisely, but pair it with regular-old “Bobbies on the street.” And he stressed the idea that public safety is about access to social services, economic rejuvenation, and good schools, not just cops: “Nothing stops a bullet like a job.”

It’s policing turned poetry, and his officers, too, have internalized it in their training. “The old police mantra was make it home safely,” Camden police officer Tyrell Bagby told the New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/02/nyregion/camden-nj-police-shootings.html) in April. “Now we’re being taught not only should we make it home safely, but so should the victim and the suspect.”

According to Camden’s mayor, Frank Moran, this ethos also extends outside of patrol hours. “These guys are more than just reporting 9-to-5 in uniform,” he told me. “They’re taking their own time and being mentors in the community. That speaks volumes.”

Click on Link for rest of article.





This.

If we spent as much on social services as we did on militarized police... we would not need militarized police.

[RandomGuy]

So defund the police means a larger and more professional police force?

It means not shoveling responsibility for all of society's ills on the police.

Dallas police chief made some good points along those lines in 2016. if you want to back the blue and reduce officer deaths, get mentally ill people the help they need, along with some serious help for domestic abusers.

A Practical Guide to Defunding the Police
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/defund-the-police-1007254/

[RandomGuy]

Nobody is saying we need LESS police https://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/snoop.png

minneapolis is kicking the police out of their city. instead of paying out of shape, lazy and racist cops 60-70K. The Rambo approach isn't working and re-directing resources in community identified needs is the right way. No way should a cop with a HS diploma and PTSD from wars make more than a school teacher.

the other thing that disbanding the entire force does is makes all the cops interview for thier old jobs back.

Police contracts generally protect problem officers with a lot of complaints from discipline. this goes around that. Too many complaints... you aren't hired.

[Chris]

rollingstone.com :lol

[RandomGuy]

rollingstone.com :lol

:lol #lazyChriscantread

[SnakeBoy]

It means not shoveling responsibility for all of society's ills on the police.

Dallas police chief made some good points along those lines in 2016. if you want to back the blue and reduce officer deaths, get mentally ill people the help they need, along with some serious help for domestic abusers.

A Practical Guide to Defunding the Police
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/defund-the-police-1007254/

Maybe you can go to some of the protests and Democratsplain what it means to the people saying it means disband the police and talking about a police free future.

No, no, no angry mob what you really mean is keep the police and raise taxes so we can provide more govt services.

[ChumpDumper]

Maybe you can go to some of the protests and Democratsplain what it means to the people saying it means disband the police and talking about a police free future.

No, no, no angry mob what you really mean is keep the police and raise taxes so we can provide more govt services.You really think a few people in a "mob" are going to effect completely eliminating a police force?

Of course you don't.

[SnakeBoy]

You really think a few people in a "mob" are going to effect completely eliminating a police force?

Of course you don't.

I didn't say anything along those lines. Just encouraging RG to go explain to them what they really mean.

[rmt]

the other thing that disbanding the entire force does is makes all the cops interview for thier old jobs back.

Police contracts generally protect problem officers with a lot of complaints from discipline. this goes around that. Too many complaints... you aren't hired.

Sounds like a call against police unions (and teachers' unions). I'm all for getting rid of bad cops and bad teachers but isn't it the Dem party that tows to the unions' bidding (and prevents school choice which I believe is a better way out of poverty).

[ChumpDumper]

I didn't say anything along those lines. Just encouraging RG to go explain to them what they really mean.Why? Are they the people actually making the decisions?

[ChumpDumper]

Sounds like a call against police unions (and teachers' unions). I'm all for getting rid of bad cops and bad teachers but isn't it the Dem party that tows to the unions' bidding (and prevents school choice which I believe is a better way out of poverty).Apparently they didn't in Camden, so this facile argument doesn't work.

[spurraider21]

Why? Are they the people actually making the decisions?
obama phone

[SnakeBoy]

Why? Are they the people actually making the decisions?

Well he is attempting to Democratsplain what they really mean. Seems he should splain it to them first.

It's not a big issue. If you say the protestors and what they want are irrelevant to the Democrat party then I'll accept your word for it.

[ChumpDumper]

Well he is attempting to Democratsplain what they really mean. Seems he should splain it to them first.No, he is explaining to people reading this forum what defunding actually means in practice. You clearly want it to be something else for the political advantage of your party.


It's not a big issue. If you say the protestors and what they want are irrelevant to the Democrat party then I'll accept your word for it.The KKK is representative of you and your party according to you. I'll accept your word for it.

[Gaylord M. Focker]

Maybe you can go to some of the protests and Democratsplain what it means to the people saying it means disband the police and talking about a police free future.

No, no, no angry mob what you really mean is keep the police and raise taxes so we can provide more govt services.

Well somebody watched Tucker Carlson.

[leemajors]

Sounds like a call against police unions (and teachers' unions). I'm all for getting rid of bad cops and bad teachers but isn't it the Dem party that tows to the unions' bidding (and prevents school choice which I believe is a better way out of poverty).

Dem establishment abandoned unions decades ago.

[SnakeBoy]

Well somebody watched Tucker Carlson.

You?

[Spurminator]

This thread is a perfect example of how liberals are absolutely fucking terrible at branding.

"We're going to come up with this super provocative catchphrase that, at first glance, sounds like we're advocating for something really radical, but then we're going to spend days trying to explain to you that it's actually something you'd probably agree with. YOU'RE the idiot for not doing the research to figure out what we mean."

Meanwhile the GOP is introducing legislation to close down the Post Office and they're calling it "The We Love Our Families Postal Act."

[Spurminator]

The MN councilwoman in the video with the mayor literally said "This is a Yes or No question" to a concept that requires 15 minutes at a minimum to explain.

[SnakeBoy]

No, he is explaining to people reading this forum what defunding actually means in practice. You clearly want it to be something else for the political advantage of your party.

The KKK is representative of you and your party according to you. I'll accept your word for it.

:lol You're pulling out all the strawman stops on this one

[SnakeBoy]

Since Chump brought them up it should be noted that when the KKK says White Supremacy what they really mean is a more inclusive and just society. That's what it means in practice.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol You're pulling out all the strawman stops on this oneIronic post.

[RandomGuy]

Sounds like a call against police unions (and teachers' unions). I'm all for getting rid of bad cops and bad teachers but isn't it the Dem party that tows to the unions' bidding (and prevents school choice which I believe is a better way out of poverty).

Helpfully
Phrase is kowtow, btw. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/kowtow

It is, normally. This is one case where a union will just have to live with what society decides is best.

I am for unions generally, although it seems like police unions tend to be run by jackasses, if the limited sample of them that seem to be making the news is representative.

[RandomGuy]

Maybe you can go to some of the protests and Democratsplain what it means to the people saying it means disband the police and talking about a police free future.

No, no, no angry mob what you really mean is keep the police and raise taxes so we can provide more govt services.

Not really. I think we would need, overall, fewer police if we didn't force them to do so many functions that would better served by other experts, such as doctors and psychologists to handle addicts and homeless, etc.

Quite frankly, I think quite a few of the angry mob understand this exactly. Not going to even try to claim all do.

Let me know when you take some personal responsibility and actually read the article. It is really an interesting idea.


Police themselves will admit this — that they are being called to respond to situations beyond the scope of their job. “We’re asking cops to do too much in this country,” Dallas Police Chief David Brown said in 2016, after five of his officers were targeted by a mass shooter. “Every societal failure, we put it off on the cops to solve. Not enough mental health funding, let the cops handle it… Here in Dallas we got a loose dog problem; let’s have the cops chase loose dogs. Schools fail, let’s give it to the cops… That’s too much to ask. Policing was never meant to solve all those problems.”

[rmt]

Helpfully
Phrase is kowtow, btw. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/kowtow

It is, normally. This is one case where a union will just have to live with what society decides is best.

I am for unions generally, although it seems like police unions tend to be run by jackasses, if the limited sample of them that seem to be making the news is representative.

Why not carry the same sentiment to teachers' unions which protect bad teachers? Doesn't the same philosophy apply? I guess ruining kids life by slowly languishing in bad schools is not seen as being (quickly) stopped on the street.

[rmt]

Dem establishment abandoned unions decades ago.

Seems to me the teachers' unions still hold a lot of sway. It's unbelievable to me that a state like WV could be so against school choice. IMHO, the money should follow the student - that's the best way to get the best education - competition for the students.

[ChumpDumper]

How did this become about teachers?:lol

[CosmicCowboy]

San Antonio will never crack down on the Police. The fire and police unions proved their stroke when the ran Sheryl Sculley off. because she dared to stand up to them.

[rmt]

How did this become about teachers?:lol

Two peas in a pod if you ask me - imo, the teachers affect kids lives/outcomes more than cops. All this focus on cops - how many times in one's lifetime does one come in contact with a cop compared to a teacher - especially in the formative years? Wanna give minorities a better life - focus on the teachers/education - it's the best way out of poverty.

[ChumpDumper]

Two peas in a pod if you ask me - imo, the teachers affect kids lives/outcomes more than cops. All this focus on cops - how many times in one's lifetime does one come in contact with a cop compared to a teacher - especially in the formative years? Wanna give minorities a better life - focus on the teachers/education - it's the best way out of poverty.Why are there good non-charter schools?

[DMC]

This.

If we spent as much on social services as we did on militarized police... we would not need militarized police.

So you want porous borders AND increased social services to undocumented immigrants? :lmao

[ducks]

New Poll: 80 Percent Want to Keep, Increase Police Funding

[Trill Clinton]

1270461722420183040


defund them

[rmt]

Why are there good non-charter schools?

Good public schools are more likely in good neighborhoods where parents are involved both time-wise and monetarily - good magnet schools usually have a special focus and additional resources to support that focus eg IB, STEM, etc.