Camden, NJ

[Will Hunting]

Just wondering - why are people using this fuckhole of a city as an example of something to emulate? I don’t think I’ve ever been to a more depressed and impoverished place.

[Will Hunting]

FYI - here’s what liberals were saying about the defunding of Camden’s police department back when it originally happened:
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/apocalypse-new-jersey-a-dispatch-from-americas-most-desperate-town-56174/

Defunding city police and replacing them with county police wasn’t some community-based effort to end police brutality, it was a Republican Governor and some good old fashion union busting.

[spurraider21]

Just wondering - why are people using this fuckhole of a city as an example of something to emulate? I don’t think I’ve ever been to a more depressed and impoverished place.
They were a shithole before Witt improves numbers since the change

[Will Hunting]

They were a shithole before Witt improves numbers since the change
Not trying to be a grammar Nazi but I legit have no idea what you’re saying here :lol

[spurraider21]

Not trying to be a grammar Nazi but I legit have no idea what you’re saying here :lol
Phone was doing autocorrect and i didn’t bother double checking

You say Camden is a shithole. Yes it is and was a shithole. But they have seen legitimate objective improvement since the change.

Even that article which tried to paint as unflattering a picture at possible discussed the community policing approach more than once

[Will Hunting]

Phone was doing autocorrect and i didn’t bother double checking

You say Camden is a shithole. Yes it is and was a shithole. But they have seen legitimate objective improvement since the change.

Even that article which tried to paint as unflattering a picture at possible discussed the community policing approach more than once
It painted the picture of authoritarian policing, which is effectively what Camden is. I’ve been there twice in the last year (long story behind why, I promise it wasn’t to buy heroine :lol) and it’s the most over militarized place I’ve ever seen. Surveillance on every street corner & cops everywhere you look. It’s a mini police state.

[Spurtacular]

Sounds like the worst of both worlds. Lowlife thugs and hard-ass coppers.

[spurraider21]

It painted the picture of authoritarian policing, which is effectively what Camden is. I’ve been there twice in the last year (long story behind why, I promise it wasn’t to buy heroine :lol) and it’s the most over militarized place I’ve ever seen. Surveillance on every street corner & cops everywhere you look. It’s a mini police state.
Still a high crime area, i don’t think anybody suggested that would magically change

[Will Hunting]

Still a high crime area, i don’t think anybody suggested that would magically change
I just don’t think the new policing style in Camden is something to emulate. I know it’s cliche to call stuff “Big Brother” but having cameras that monitor every sidewalk and technology that allows police to track you for no reason is as big brother as it gets. If taking away civil liberties is the only way to prevent crime then we’re all fucked no matter what.

[spurraider21]

I just don’t think the new policing style in Camden is something to emulate. I know it’s cliche to call stuff “Big Brother” but having cameras that monitor every sidewalk and technology that allows police to track you for no reason is as big brother as it gets. If taking away civil liberties is the only way to prevent crime then we’re all fucked no matter what.
Illegal warranties searches would still be subject to exclusion. The general idea is that sending in a goon squad with guns and batons who don’t give a shit about the community is a terrible solution

[pgardn]

You can find a Camden in any country in the world if you look.
Its a place where the down and out have little hope in societal rules so something else evolves.
There are places that people are born into this and or seek it out.
They dont give a fck about anything we do. No skins in "our" game.

The reasons are probably many, but its pretty clear if you have nothing to gain by following the rules in your area, you dont follow the rules, it has to hurt some sort of standing you have in that society.

Imo you have to have a short term solution to deal with this group interfering with people who do play by the rules, but long term, you have to make people care about having something to lose; Besides their self perceived pride (they will make the pride rules for themselves). They must feel like they are apart of something bigger that will benefit them.
I dont think anyone has figured this out fully yet as it is probably very difficult.
The prisons where they have tried to mix populations of different long term resident gangs are probably an interesting helpful study to see how they obtain their rules.

Imo there is reform for some, and some (I believe probably a high % mentally ill) its gonna be very difficult.
This easiest solution is not to be born in the shithole. Good luck with that.

My way too long take.

[ElNono]

Not trying to be a grammar Nazi but I legit have no idea what you’re saying here :lol

He was speaking ducks language

[Will Hunting]

You can find a Camden in any country in the world if you look.
Its a place where the down and out have little hope in societal rules so something else evolves.
There are places that people are born into this and or seek it out.
They dont give a fck about anything we do. No skins in "our" game.

The reasons are probably many, but its pretty clear if you have nothing to gain by following the rules in your area, you dont follow the rules, it has to hurt some sort of standing you have in that society.

Imo you have to have a short term solution to deal with this group interfering with people who do play by the rules, but long term, you have to make people care about having something to lose; Besides their self perceived pride (they will make the pride rules for themselves). They must feel like they are apart of something bigger that will benefit them.
I dont think anyone has figured this out fully yet as it is probably very difficult.
The prisons where they have tried to mix populations of different long term resident gangs are probably an interesting helpful study to see how they obtain their rules.

Imo there is reform for some, and some (I believe probably a high % mentally ill) its gonna be very difficult.
This easiest solution is not to be born in the shithole. Good luck with that.

My way too long take.
Didn’t read the whole thing but I disagree that you can find a Camden in any country in the world. You’re not going to find Camden in Sweden or Denmark. There’s a lot more concentrated poveraty in American than there is in most other modern countries.

[pgardn]

Didn’t read the whole thing but I disagree that you can find a Camden in any country in the world. You’re not going to find Camden in Sweden or Denmark. There’s a lot more concentrated poveraty in American than there is in most other modern countries.

Yes you can.
They are usually composed of drug dens of younger people.
You can find trouble in any country.
Addicts are very good at not caring about rules as their rule is the next fix, anyway possible.
Now this is not Camden, but it has the same basic characteristics of people who dont give a fck.

I would say there are fewer born into it, but society has found a way to exclude them so they look for other ways.

[ElNono]

It painted the picture of authoritarian policing, which is effectively what Camden is. I’ve been there twice in the last year (long story behind why, I promise it wasn’t to buy heroine :lol) and it’s the most over militarized place I’ve ever seen. Surveillance on every street corner & cops everywhere you look. It’s a mini police state.

That's what north jersey in general looks like, my nig... you know I've lived there for 20 years... towns like Elizabeth, Camdem, even Newark... no matter the mayor, no matter the governor, they're just terrible places to live. The biggest attraction is having Manhattan across the pond, tbh...

Philly and surroundings is not much different, tbh

[Will Hunting]

It’s also not just Camden. It’s East St. Louis, Flint, Gary Indiana, etc. We have countless amounts of poverty/crime hot spots all over the country that are home to tens of millions of people if you add them all up. You don’t see that kind of extreme poverty in other modern countries.

[Spurtacular]

That's what north jersey in general looks like, my nig... you know I've lived there for 20 years... towns like Elizabeth, Camdem, even Newark... no matter the mayor, no matter the governor, they're just terrible places to live. The biggest attraction is having Manhattan across the pond, tbh...

Philly and surroundings is not much different, tbh


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDfOcsI1Ppw

[Spurtacular]

It’s also not just Camden. It’s East St. Louis, Flint, Gary Indiana, etc. We have countless amounts of poverty/crime hot spots all over the country that are home to tens of millions of people if you add them all up. You don’t see that kind of extreme poverty in other modern countries.

All Democrat shit holes, bruh.

[pgardn]

It’s also not just Camden. It’s East St. Louis, Flint, Gary Indiana, etc. We have countless amounts of poverty/crime hot spots all over the country that are home to tens of millions of people if you add them all up. You don’t see that kind of extreme poverty in other modern countries.

It can arise in the poverty of not belonging.
Usually mental illness and or a combination of a shitty family life.
Not endemic and systematized as in the US, but the characteristics of crime for things we consider startling occur.
And the same basic theme of not having skins in "our" game.

[ElNono]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDfOcsI1Ppw

:lol

luckily where I lived was pretty good... central jersey, near the shore... some places on the south are pretty decent too... but yeah, the north is just pretty terrible, tbh

[Will Hunting]

Yes you can.
They are usually composed of drug dens of younger people.
You can find trouble in any country.
Addicts are very good at not caring about rules as their rule is the next fix, anyway possible.
Now this is not Camden, but it has the same basic characteristics of people who dont give a fck.

I would say there are fewer born into it, but society has found a way to exclude them so they look for other ways.
Where in Sweden can I find a town of 80,000 people where the median household income is as low as it is in Camden? I’m sure the major cities like Stockholm have a mix of good and bad areas, but they don’t have entire towns and cities that have basically been left behind by capitalism.

[Will Hunting]

All Democrat shit holes, bruh.
Letting America get hollowed out by globalism was a bipartisan initiative, with Ronny Reagan leading the way.

[Will Hunting]

:lol

luckily where I lived was pretty good... central jersey, near the shore... some places on the south are pretty decent too... but yeah, the north is just pretty terrible, tbh
Aren’t they gentrifying a big chunk of Jersey City?

Central New Jersey near the shore is nice overall, except for that place with all the Orthodox Jews. Driving through there was like being in the twilight zone.

[Spurtacular]

:lol

luckily where I lived was pretty good... central jersey, near the shore... some places on the south are pretty decent too... but yeah, the north is just pretty terrible, tbh

NBC pulled their punches though. They totally found two high-end white chicks to play the part.

[Spurtacular]

Letting America get hollowed out by globalism was a bipartisan initiative, with Ronny Reagan leading the way.

Republicans are complicit in a lot of things, no doubt. Just pointing out that Democrats are proven entities. I wasn't for Obamacare; but it should've at least been done right if they were gonna do it. Instead they enriched insurance companies and f'd with people's health care. Not cool.

[ElNono]

Aren’t they gentrifying a big chunk of Jersey City?

Central New Jersey near the shore is nice overall, except for that place with all the Orthodox Jews. Driving through there was like being in the twilight zone.

Well, that's all the central jersey shore :lol... I see you've taken the Ocean Avenue tour...

Rows of houses with all the NY jooos million dollar beachfront properties that sit empty for half the year... then we get the bennies onslaught during the summer.

But I mean, the surrounding areas are still way better to live on than anywhere in north jersey, etc...

[ElNono]

You should know what bennies are by now, tbh, but if you don't:

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bennies

[pgardn]

Yes you can.
They are usually composed of drug dens of younger people.
You can find trouble in any country.
Addicts are very good at not caring about rules as their rule is the next fix, anyway possible.
Now this is not Camden, but it has the same basic characteristics of people who dont give a fck.

I would say there are fewer born into it, but society has found a way to exclude them so they look for other ways.


It can arise in the poverty of not belonging.
Usually mental illness and or a combination of a shitty family life.
Not endemic and systematized as in the US, but the characteristics of crime for things we consider startling occur.
And the same basic theme of not having skins in "our" game.

If one has relatives that have and do live this life you get it.
They lie cheat and steal and are more than willing to hurt even relatives because they dont give a fck.
For the members I have its a combination of some with poverty, some mentally ill, and some who had parents that are exactly like they are.
There are shining examples of those who make it out, and I have not a clue how they did it.

[Will Hunting]

Well, that's all the central jersey shore :lol... I see you've taken the Ocean Avenue tour...

Rows of houses with all the NY jooos million dollar beachfront properties that sit empty for half the year... then we get the bennies onslaught during the summer.

But I mean, the surrounding areas are still way better to live on than anywhere in north jersey, etc...
Not talking about shore houses, it’s slightly more inland and basically all the Orthodox Jews who can’t afford to live in Brooklyn moved there. It’s called Lakewood I think. The Orthodox Jew takeover of that city has basically been a mafia style operation, they’ve moved into neighborhoods and made the locals offers they can’t refuse le happy merchant style.

[ElNono]

Not talking about shore houses, it’s slightly more inland and basically all the Orthodox Jews who can’t afford to live in Brooklyn moved there. It’s called Lakewood I think. The Orthodox Jew takeover of that city has basically been a mafia style operation, they’ve moved into neighborhoods and made the locals offers they can’t refuse le happy merchant style.

Yeah, they're all over, tbh... Lakewood is one spot, then you have another big synagogue near Long Branch too (near Elberon/West End)... you can see them walking on the street every sunday...

[Will Hunting]

Yeah, they're all over, tbh... Lakewood is one spot, then you have another big synagogue near Long Branch too (near Elberon/West End)... you can see them walking on the street every sunday...
You mean Saturday :lol

[pgardn]

Austin Texas would claim that Californians have done somewhat the same thing.

[ElNono]

You mean Saturday :lol

yeah, I guess so, its been a while :lol

[pgardn]

Austin Texas would claim that Californians have done somewhat the same thing.

The Welsh would consider the English doing the same thing only with the land.
They pushed the Welsh into poor farming areas instead of housing or beachside views (well they did that to, but not the views).
The people in Cardiff really hate the English.
So it continues...

Im thinkin out here, sorry to the Jersey boys. I see parallels.

[Spurtacular]

FYI - here’s what liberals were saying about the defunding of Camden’s police department back when it originally happened:
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/apocalypse-new-jersey-a-dispatch-from-americas-most-desperate-town-56174/

Defunding city police and replacing them with county police wasn’t some community-based effort to end police brutality, it was a Republican Governor and some good old fashion union busting.

Democrats love building these shit holes. They overwhelmingly support them.

[pgardn]

derping incoming...

[Will Hunting]

Democrats love building these shit holes. They overwhelmingly support them.
:lmao yeah, we just need to cut taxes for the rich and it’ll trickle down to shitholes like Camden

[Spurtacular]

:lmao yeah, we just need to cut taxes for the rich and it’ll trickle down to shitholes like Camden

Trickle down as instituted by the Bushians is largely cronyism. Nonetheless, your whataboutism is buck passing, tbh.

[ElNono]

:lmao yeah, we just need to cut taxes for the rich and it’ll trickle down to shitholes like Camden

That's exactly what Chris Christie did, the whole trickle down dogma... it never fixes these towns, because the biggest problem isn't more or less money in this cases... it's about people caring about their state and towns...

[Will Hunting]

:lmao shocker, Uncle Ruckus Clyburn wants the rest of the country to follow Chris Christie’s lead in union busting:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/james-clyburn-police-reform-camden-new-jersey

[Millennial_Messiah]

Letting America get hollowed out by globalism was a bipartisan initiative, with Ronny Reagan leading the way.

I don't disagree with that. You can argue Reagan initiated the 9/11 process, and Clinton enabled it.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48065288971_55d515d20f_b.jpg

[Millennial_Messiah]

:lmao yeah, we just need to cut taxes for the rich and it’ll trickle down to shitholes like Camden

Philadelphia (the city, not the suburbs) is a total shithole outside of the Center City to South Philly area. You can't really get out of driving thru Camden if you're going into NJ. When I was a teenager we were driving thru Camden and stopped at a Hess to get gas at 3 a.m. and the Indian guy inside waved us down to GTFO out of there. Looked like the store was being held hostage.

[Will Hunting]

I don't disagree with that. You can argue Reagan initiated the 9/11 process, and Clinton enabled it.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48065288971_55d515d20f_b.jpg
Clinton without a doubt made things worse. Continuing Greenspan’s reign and chairman of the Fed, repealing Glass-Steagall, NAFTA, etc., Clinton made neo-liberal deregulation something with bipartisan support.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Clinton without a doubt made things worse. Continuing Greenspan’s reign and chairman of the Fed, repealing Glass-Steagall, NAFTA, etc., Clinton made neo-liberal deregulation something with bipartisan support.

well that, and, the tiny little fact that he didn't do jack shit about the WTC getting bombed literally a month into his first term. Osama/Al-Qaeda declared jihad against the US in 1997 and it was all over CNN, but Clinton still chose to stand pat and do nothing. Instead he spent billions of US taxpayer dollars on saving Muslims from Milosevic in Serbia. Did nothing about the USS Cole bombing by Osama in 2000. Gore winning wouldn't have changed a damn thing. Maybe we wouldn't have gone into Iraq to take out Saddam and pave the way for ISIS? Maybe? But perhaps we could have lost more ground to jihadic terrorism without Bush in office and his strongman approach.

[Will Hunting]

Philadelphia (the city, not the suburbs) is a total shithole outside of the Center City to South Philly area. You can't really get out of driving thru Camden if you're going into NJ. When I was a teenager we were driving thru Camden and stopped at a Hess to get gas at 3 a.m. and the Indian guy inside waved us down to GTFO out of there. Looked like the store was being held hostage.
He was probably waiving GTFO because a white family has no business getting gas in camden NJ at 3 in the morning.

Not sure what you mean by saying you “can’t get out of driving through Camden”, that makes no sense. If you just stay on the freeway you can get into Haddonfield/Cherry Hill pretty quickly (or you can just go North). Camden isn’t very big and there are multiple freeways into NJ from Philly.

[Will Hunting]

well that, and, the tiny little fact that he didn't do jack shit about the WTC getting bombed literally a month into his first term. Osama/Al-Qaeda declared jihad against the US in 1997 and it was all over CNN, but Clinton still chose to stand pat and do nothing. Instead he spent billions of US taxpayer dollars on saving Muslims from Milosevic in Serbia. Did nothing about the USS Cole bombing by Osama in 2000. Gore winning wouldn't have changed a damn thing. Maybe we wouldn't have gone into Iraq to take out Saddam and pave the way for ISIS? Maybe? But perhaps we could have lost more ground to jihadic terrorism without Bush in office and his strongman approach.
Clinton did plenty on counter terrorism, he just stopped short of boots on the ground. He was very much a neo conservative.

Empowering Al Queda for the sake of trying to fight muh Soviet Union was the real fuck up on that front.

[Millennial_Messiah]

He was probably waiving GTFO because a white family has no business getting gas in camden NJ at 3 in the morning.

Not sure what you mean by saying you “can’t get out of driving through Camden”, that makes no sense. If you just stay on the freeway you can get into Haddonfield/Cherry Hill pretty quickly (or you can just go North). Camden isn’t very big and there are multiple freeways into NJ from Philly.

Idk, we were taking the 76 turnpike all the way since like Ohio and we were visiting Lindenwold, NJ (actually where I was conceived). Mom's friends from her old job before she moved down to TX to get away from my father. My mom always said that Camden was the entry point from Philly to NJ but whenever she'd drive she'd make it a point of emphasis to speed really fast because the cops had more important things to do than catch speeders there and she definitely didn't want to linger.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Clinton did plenty on counter terrorism, he just stopped short of boots on the ground. He was very much a neo conservative.

Empowering Al Queda for the sake of trying to fight muh Soviet Union was the real fuck up on that front.

yes, and to be fair the USSR was dismantled by the time Clinton got in power. Carter and Reagan were both fuck ups on that front. Carter missed the golden chance to maintain a key ally in Iran which still haunts us today. Reagan and Gorbyachev got along pretty well but he should have seen the existential evil behind the jihadist ragheads and to not try and play a proxy game with suicidal theocrats like that.

[Will Hunting]

Idk, we were taking the 76 turnpike all the way since like Ohio and we were visiting Lindenwold, NJ (actually where I was conceived). Mom's friends from her old job before she moved down to TX to get away from my father. My mom always said that Camden was the entry point from Philly to NJ but whenever she'd drive she'd make it a point of emphasis to speed really fast because the cops had more important things to do than catch speeders there and she definitely didn't want to linger.
Yeah, that still doesn’t make sense. The 76 barely touches Camden, it’s the 676 that goes directly through Camden via the Ben Franklin Bridge.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Yeah, that still doesn’t make sense. The 76 barely touches Camden, it’s the 676 that goes directly through Camden via the Ben Franklin Bridge.

Hmm, turns out you're right, but you still have to go thru the meat of Camden to get to Lindenwold:

https://i.imgur.com/BZst5Ik.jpg