Thing I noticed about right wingers during the Coronavirus pandemic.

[midnightpulp]

Okay, so Coronavirus has killed 130k people, and wingnuts on various forums and social media platforms keep insisting the media is "fear mongering" us so they can control us, drive up ratings, etc. They also keep saying, "Yeee haaaawwww, I'm less likely to die of the Covid than a car accident!" (not true). They'll also say that anyone fearing Covid (liberals) are pussies and need to toughen up and live life. Cool.

But when a story breaks about an illegal alien murdering someone, Conservatives believe that is just the start of Messicans and other browns flooding into their neighborhoods and raping and pillaging everything in sight. Or we can go back further and document their fear of various Islamic terrorist factions, them thinking ISIS or Al Qaeda will be soon flying planes into every skyscraper in the country if we don't "shock and awe" the Middle East back to the stone age and ban travel from the Middle East.

Facts are, you're much, much more likely to die of Covid than be killed by a Messican or Muslim, but conservatives fear the latter event much more.

Any theories on why that is? Seems to make no sense to me given the odds of each happening. Again, you're more likely to harmed or killed by the Coronavirus than an illegal alien or terrorist. Wonder why conservative don't call it fear mongering when the Fox Newses and Briebarts breathlessly report on instances of an illegal killing someone in a car accident or Muslim knife attack in the UK. Those events are exceedingly are.

[baseline bum]

Okay, so Coronavirus has killed 130k people, and wingnuts on various forums and social media platforms keep insisting the media is "fear mongering" us so they can control us, drive up ratings, etc. They also keep saying, "Yeee haaaawwww, I'm less likely to die of the Covid than a car accident!" (not true).

That one cracks me up. In four months COVID has killed more Americans than die by car accidents on average over about a 3.5 year timespan.

[ElNono]

What stood out to me is who the snowflakes really are, tbh... amazing tantrums only because you've been asked to wear a mask while in public and near other people...

[DMC]

More than auto accidents in NY pretty much. NY that is.

[ChumpDumper]

What stood out to me is who the snowflakes really are, tbh... amazing tantrums only because you've been asked to wear a mask while in public and near other people......or one of them judges someone else's Trump to Cuomo criticism ratio is off.

[DMC]

Cuomo 30K+ deaths, gets a free pass and even a participation award from the left.

Abbott 2600 deaths, gets dragged through the streets and called everything but a white man by the left

It's not about lives.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol predictable

[clambake]

They fear color, they watch them with white women and realize they’ll never have that. These guys are too afraid to be out there. The mirror tells them that all the time. They don’t give a shit about the virus. It’s just something they do together to feel like something worthy. I say let’em have a morsel.

[Spurtacular]

Midnight Gulp pretending that numbers not being manufactured and truth censored.

Weren't we told this isn't a political issue by the way? Why is anyone who dissents a right winger btw?

Last I checked, TheGreatYacht isn't a right winger.

[midnightpulp]

Midnight Gulp pretending that numbers not being manufactured and truth censored.

Weren't we told this isn't a political issue by the way? Why is anyone who dissents a right winger btw?

Last I checked, TheGreatYacht isn't a right winger.

About 98%.

Anyhow, explain the lax attitude/disbelief toward coronavirus but the absolute knee shaking fear wingnuts have of Messicans and Muslims (when getting killed by either is an extremely rare event).

[TheGreatYacht]

Midnight Gulp pretending that numbers not being manufactured and truth censored.

Weren't we told this isn't a political issue by the way? Why is anyone who dissents a right winger btw?

Last I checked, TheGreatYacht isn't a right winger.

You damn right. And anyone on my list can confirm. ducks koriwhat Nathan89 Chris CosmicCowboy DMC DarrinS Millennial_Messiah FrostKing SnakeBoy thispego TSA phxspurfan Spurtacular Thread

I'm not a leftist either. Chumpettes can confirm.

Fuck the left vs paradigm. The false duality of good vs evil. That is how the elites divide and conquer us all. The world is not black and white. The elites - through school indoctrination, religion, and media - have programmed us with lies.

[Spurtacular]

About 98%.

Anyhow, explain the lax attitude/disbelief toward coronavirus but the absolute knee shaking fear wingnuts have of Messicans and Muslims (when getting killed by either is an extremely rare event).

Leftists obviously don't believe in the scam. They didn't when the riots came about. COVID mania was put on suspension. There's a lot of dishonest people in this world. Frankly, most are on some significant level. Welcome to life.

[midnightpulp]

Leftists obviously don't believe in the scam. They didn't when the riots came about. COVID mania was put on suspension. There's a lot of dishonest people in this world. Frankly, most are on some significant level. Welcome to life.

Yes they did. That's why the protesters were wearing masks. :lol

https://abcnews.go.com/US/dr-fauci-voices-concerns-coronavirus-spreading-amid-nationwide/story?id=71171103

The protesters simply felt the cause outweighed the concern of catching the virus. Do I agree with that? No, even though I'm in favor of police reform.

But again, why is the fear among the right of covid less than the fear of a Mexican or Muslim killing them? The average wingnut would probably say they are more likely to be killed by ISIS than Covid. I'm just curious about the asymmetry here.

[Spurtacular]

Yes they did. That's why the protesters were wearing masks. :lol

https://abcnews.go.com/US/dr-fauci-voices-concerns-coronavirus-spreading-amid-nationwide/story?id=71171103

The protesters simply felt the cause outweighed the concern of catching the virus. Do I agree with that? No, even though I'm in favor of police reform.

But again, why is the fear among the right of covid less than the fear of a Mexican or Muslim killing them? The average wingnut would probably say they are more likely to be killed by ISIS than Covid. I'm just curious about the asymmetry here.

Many weren't. They weren't socially distancing either. Frankly, the right did some at least. The left couldn't give a fuck whatsoever.
Media clutched their pearls when it was the right and just didn't give a fuck when it was the left.

All the shit we were being fed went out the window when it was protest time. But then it was redoubling efforts to put people back in their cages when the riots were dying down some. Then, it was fake spike time right away when the reopenings were a hit. We could see this fakeness coming a mile away. We knew it was coming even though summer action kills viruses. So fucking stupid, how you minions believe this shit from the powerful elite. Like you know nothing about history or how the world operates.
You should value your freedom and stop getting scared about a scamdemic. You're smart enough to get this.

[ChumpDumper]

Many weren't. They weren't socially distancing either. Frankly, the right did some at least. The left couldn't give a fuck whatsoever.
Media clutched their pearls when it was the right and just didn't give a fuck when it was the left.

All the shit we were being fed went out the window when it was protest time. But then it was redoubling efforts to put people back in their cages when the riots were dying down some. Then, it was fake spike time right away when the reopenings were a hit. We could see this fakeness coming a mile away. We knew it was coming even though summer action kills viruses. So fucking stupid, how you minions believe this shit from the powerful elite. Like you know nothing about history or how the world operates.
You should value your freedom and stop getting scared about a scamdemic. You're smart enough to get this.How much did you drink tonight?

[Spurtacular]

How much did you drink tonight?

cherp

[midnightpulp]

Many weren't. They weren't socially distancing either. Frankly, the right did some at least. The left couldn't give a fuck whatsoever.
Media clutched their pearls when it was the right and just didn't give a fuck when it was the left.

All the shit we were being fed went out the window when it was protest time. But then it was redoubling efforts to put people back in their cages when the riots were dying down some. Then, it was fake spike time right away when the reopenings were a hit. We could see this fakeness coming a mile away. We knew it was coming even though summer action kills viruses. So fucking stupid, how you minions believe this shit from the powerful elite. Like you know nothing about history or how the world operates.
You should value your freedom and stop getting scared about a scamdemic. You're smart enough to get this.

The "powerful elite" also use law enforcement as their personal gestapo, right? So then, why weren't you actually in favor of the protests and actions like the CHAZ and such? I thought a group of courageous citizens declaring freedom from government would warm your heart?

Your theory has holes because there was no spike in New York, the economic center of the country. If "the elite" wanted to once again tank the economy, a fresh spike in New York would've done the trick instead of irrelevant states like Arizona. Another hole in your theory is that deaths haven't spiked. Why haven't the "elite" cooked up a couple thousand deaths per day like they did in April? You might deflect the elite are leaving New York because Cuomo, Dem, but that's a reason why they'd be able to fabricate a spike, since they have NY's governor on their payroll to do their bidding.

Nah, dude. This is just a virus that is a few times deadlier than the flu and we should take precautions to mitigate death. A cigar is a cigar.

[ChumpDumper]

cherpderp folds

[Spurtacular]

The "powerful elite" also use law enforcement as their personal gestapo, right?

In many cases, sure.

[Spurtacular]

So then, why weren't you actually in favor of the protests and actions like the CHAZ and such?

They weren't protesting COVID. And they were terrorizing law abiding citizenry.

You're just getting desperate. :lol

[midnightpulp]

cherp

Also, I find your logic dissonance interesting. So the powerful elite, who wants to control us, is cooking up numbers in order to "put us back in our cages," but this same powerful elite isn't "cooking up numbers" with regards to murders in the CHAZ, which was actually a definitive statement against control and thus the elites? Isn't a declaration of freedom from government the ultimate declaration of liberty? Yet you started threads criticizing the CHAZ and citing the murders there with confidence. Hmmm. Maybe the "elites" feared the CHAZ would spark a national wide revolution if its members proved the concept, so stands to reason they'd cook up a few murders to demonize it.

Seems like you're only concerned about "elites" when you perceive those elites to be on the side of leftist causes.

[Spurtacular]

Your theory has holes because there was no spike in New York, the economic center of the country. If "the elite" wanted to once again tank the economy, a fresh spike in New York would've done the trick instead of irrelevant states like Arizona.

Only so many nursing home deaths to mark COVID to go around. And :lol at "irrelevant" Arizona.

[midnightpulp]

cherp

Also, I find your logic dissonance interesting. So the powerful elite, who wants to control us, is cooking up numbers in order to "put us back in our cages," but this same powerful elite isn't "cooking up numbers" with regards to murders in the CHAZ, which was actually a definitive statement against control and thus the elites? Isn't a declaration of freedom from government the ultimate declaration of liberty? Yet you started threads criticizing the CHAZ and citing the murders there with confidence. Hmmm. Maybe the "elites" feared the CHAZ would spark a national wide revolution if its members proved the concept, so stands to reason they'd cook up a few murders to demonize it.

Seems like you're only concerned about "elites" when you perceive those elites to be on the side of leftist causes.

[Spurtacular]

Why haven't the "elite" cooked up a couple thousand deaths per day like they did in April?

They would if they could. But there's only so much money in the budget to pay for deaths. And paying for case spikes is much more economical.
It's not like they don't own a media who can conveniently ignore a non-corresponding death count. But :lol that you're basically noting the holes in all your BS.

TheGreatYacht

[midnightpulp]

Only so many nursing home deaths to mark COVID to go around. And :lol at "irrelevant" Arizona.

Why do you need actual bodies? You can just cook the books. Just add a cool 300 deaths to the NY meter everyday. If media elite is all in on it, no one would investigate them on it.

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao

[Spurtacular]

Also, I find your logic dissonance interesting. So the powerful elite, who wants to control us, is cooking up numbers in order to "put us back in our cages," but this same powerful elite isn't "cooking up numbers" with regards to murders in the CHAZ, which was actually a definitive statement against control and thus the elites? Isn't a declaration of freedom from government the ultimate declaration of liberty? Yet you started threads criticizing the CHAZ and citing the murders there with confidence. Hmmm. Maybe the "elites" feared the CHAZ would spark a national wide revolution if its members proved the concept, so stands to reason they'd cook up a few murders to demonize it.

Seems like you're only concerned about "elites" when you perceive those elites to be on the side of leftist causes.

I think you're in disbelief that there are elitists who seek to pull the levers of power in a way that doesn't benefit society.
You seem very offended at the very thought.

[midnightpulp]

I think you're in disbelief that there are elitists who seek to pull the levers of power in a way that doesn't benefit society.
You seem very offended at the very thought.

Nice way to deflect from owning up to your logic. Again, I ask, WHY are they cooking Covid stats to control us but didn't cook the CHAZ situation to also control us? I figure there is nothing the elites would hate more than a communal, autonomous society free from government and corporations. I just want your skepticism to be even-handed and consistent. The CHAZ was indeed a STATEMENT against elite control. Yet you started a thread decrying all the lawlessness in the CHAZ. What makes you think those murders weren't a "false flag?"

And no, I wasn't in favor of the CHAZ if you want to request that I be consistent.

[Spurtacular]

Nice way to deflect from owning up to your logic. Again, I ask, WHY are they cooking Covid stats to control us but didn't cook the CHAZ situation to also control us? I figure there is nothing the elites would hate more than a communal, autonomous society free from government and corporations. I just want your skepticism to be even-handed and consistent. The CHAZ was indeed a STATEMENT against elite control. Yet you started a thread decrying all the lawlessness in the CHAZ. What makes you think those murders weren't a "false flag?"

And no, I wasn't in favor of the CHAZ if you want to request that I be consistent.

Not at all. You have a strong predisposition to oppose people who don't buy the narratives of the powerful elite.
You trust them implicitly. It's why you're struggling with people daring to call out the fakery of it all.
Frankly, you really really believe in government; and that's amusing given how many ass clowns rise in their ranks.

[midnightpulp]

Not at all. You have a strong predisposition to oppose people who don't buy the narratives of the powerful elite.
You trust them implicitly. It's why you're struggling with people daring to call out the fakery of it all.
Frankly, you really really believe in government; and that's amusing given how many ass clowns rise in their ranks.

:lol still deflecting.

You seem to believe those same elites, too. You bought, hook/line/and-sinker, the "news" that the CHAZ turned into an orgy of lawlessness and murder. Why can't you just simply answer the question of why you believe the events and reporting on the CHAZ was accurate (which again, if you're not getting the point, was a demonstration against government), but the reporting on Covid is manufactured.


I'm fine with cops doing their f*cking jobs and restoring order.

:lmao. Cops are the tip of the spear of the elites, my dude.

[Spurtacular]

You bought, hook/line/and-sinker, the "news" that the CHAZ turned into an orgy of lawlessness and murder.

That's your hyperbolic language, not mine. It was lawlessness even if many person were behaving well enough. Cops were prohibited from enforcing the law.
That's the very definition of lawlessness, dude.


:lmao. Cops are the tip of the spear of the elites, my dude.

In essence they are. And I called them out for clearing out people peaceably behaving on the streets.
But that doesn't mean they weren't derelict of duty in letting anarchists have a pass before that.

[midnightpulp]

That's your hyperbolic language, not mine. It was lawlessness even if many person were behaving well enough. Cops were prohibited from enforcing the law.
That's the very definition of lawlessness, dude.

And that law is crafted by elites. I'm surprised you're not asking yourself why the CHAZ was shut down so quickly? "Restoring order" is the first step toward tyranny. Always has been. Dictactors and fascists always promise to "restore order."

Again, I'm not in favor of the CHAZ. I'm just surprised you weren't, given your beliefs. Oh, I know why you weren't. Because they are "leftists." So really, you're more motivated by banal partisan politics than an actual ideology of liberty. You might say, "Well, I was gonna give the CHAZ a chance until the murders." But again, how do we know those murders weren't a false flag to drum up sentiment against the CHAZ?


In essence they are. And I called them out for clearing out people peaceably behaving on the streets.
But that doesn't mean they weren't derelict of duty in letting anarchists have a pass before that.

Anarchy is the only viable ideology with regard to total freedom from "elites." Once you introduce an instrument of control that is state sponsored (like police), you reopen the door for elite control. Self-policing via the community is the solution (but this could also degenerate to hierarchical control), which the CHAZ implemented. That's why, again, I'm surprised you weren't gung-ho to see it succeed.

[Spurtacular]

And that law is crafted by elites. I'm surprised you're not asking yourself why the CHAZ was shut down so quickly? "Restoring order" is the first step toward tyranny. Always has been. Dictactors and fascists always promise to "restore order."


So quickly? Hell, they had weeks of just being vagrants on the street to the detriment of business owners.

And I think you're taking liberty with the word order. There isn't a successful society doesn't have some form of order.
Sure, tyrants often love the thinly veiled veneer of order; but that doesn't take away the need for it.

People have rights; we should all fight to keep them. COVID-19 plandemic and the preceding events have all been about taking those rights away.

Why would I be for CHAZ? Because they're protesting for what the elites want them to protest so they can divide and conquer?
You shouldn't be surprised ever that I'm not a pawn. TheGreatYacht

[Spurtacular]

Anarchy is the only viable ideology with regard to total freedom from "elites." Once you introduce an instrument of control that is state sponsored (like police), you reopen the door for elite control. Self-policing via the community is the solution (but this could also degenerate to hierarchical control), which the CHAZ implemented. That's why, again, I'm surprised you weren't gung-ho to see it succeed.

Anarchy is not freedom. Anarchy is anarchy. You're really hitting special levels of stupid.

But pushing past that, I don't live in a dream world where the power will ever be divided equally. But that's why it's extra important that our individual rights are respected. It's why we the people should take control of our government. At current, it is corporately owned more than ever.

[midnightpulp]

Anarchy is not freedom. Anarchy is anarchy. You're really hitting special levels of stupid.

But pushing past that, I don't live in a dream world where the power will ever be divided equally. But that's why it's extra important that our individual rights are respected. It's why we the people should take control of our government. At current, it is corporately owned more than ever.

No. Anarchy is freedom. Freedom doesn't always imply positive outcomes, but it's defined as complete freedom for hierarchy, hence the name. But yes, freedom to murder, rape, steal isn't a positive freedom at all.


It's why we the people should take control of our government.

:lmao, this is anarchy. And your inability to see the contradiction is "special levels of stupid." This what the CHAZ attempted. By the people, for the people. This is why anarchy is skeptical of "government" because government always inevitably moves to a tier above "the people" on the ladder of social hierarchy. Indeed, government officials are supposed to be instruments of our collective will, but they all too often use their positions to grow their power, enrich themselves, and play favor to "special interests." There is "no taking it back" without anarchy.

Best we can do is hold them to merciless accountability, but that's also not possible in the US because of the prevalence of conspiracy theories, partisan disagreement and R and D fans alike not wanting to abandon their team. Trump is the perfect example. He's fucked up in so many ways that is beyond belief, he should've been ousted long ago, but the R team won't forsake him and think everything negative about him is a "deep state" ploy. So here we are.

We also have too much political disagreement in the country to collectively "take our government back." I believe in universal healthcare, and no argument will convince me otherwise. You think it's the first step toward communism, and no argument will convince you otherwise, so again, here we are. I honestly think the best theoretical solution to this is implementing hard states rights. If Alabama wants for-profit-healthcare, cool. If California wants universal healthcare, cool. And states fund it out of their pocket, and we get rid of states subsidizing other states. Mississippi, Arkansas, Alabama and the rest of these deep south states can "pull themselves up by their bootstraps."

And the role of the Federal Government should be restricted to foreign affairs ONLY (as originally intended), with the president basically acting as the lead diplomat. Not the LEADER of the country. I think this would heal a lot of division. The US is too culturally and ideologically different from region to region. One person can't and shouldn't represent us all. The President is an obsolete concept.

[IronMexican]

Okay, so Coronavirus has killed 130k people, and wingnuts on various forums and social media platforms keep insisting the media is "fear mongering" us so they can control us, drive up ratings, etc. They also keep saying, "Yeee haaaawwww, I'm less likely to die of the Covid than a car accident!" (not true). They'll also say that anyone fearing Covid (liberals) are pussies and need to toughen up and live life. Cool.

But when a story breaks about an illegal alien murdering someone, Conservatives believe that is just the start of Messicans and other browns flooding into their neighborhoods and raping and pillaging everything in sight. Or we can go back further and document their fear of various Islamic terrorist factions, them thinking ISIS or Al Qaeda will be soon flying planes into every skyscraper in the country if we don't "shock and awe" the Middle East back to the stone age and ban travel from the Middle East.

Facts are, you're much, much more likely to die of Covid than be killed by a Messican or Muslim, but conservatives fear the latter event much more.

Any theories on why that is? Seems to make no sense to me given the odds of each happening. Again, you're more likely to harmed or killed by the Coronavirus than an illegal alien or terrorist. Wonder why conservative don't call it fear mongering when the Fox Newses and Briebarts breathlessly report on instances of an illegal killing someone in a car accident or Muslim knife attack in the UK. Those events are exceedingly are.
Because conservatives are the party of trump now. The days of "moderate republicans" are long and gone, and probably have been since the tea party.

This post had my dying, though, because they're probably more scared of MS 13 breaking though their house and assassinating the entire house than they are of dying of covidd

[Spurtacular]

No. Anarchy is freedom.

You really want to play this game?
Sure anarchy is freedom if it can actually be achieved.
The people in CHAZ never had some sort of real anarchy. They were always under a thumb.
Snowflake anarchy is not freedom. Let's delve into ridiculous avenues.

[Spurtacular]

:lmao, this is anarchy. And your inability to see the contradiction is "special levels of stupid."

You're so butthurt that you're saying that the government by the people for the people is stupid. :lol

[Spurtacular]

:lmao, this is anarchy. And your inability to see the contradiction is "special levels of stupid." This what the CHAZ attempted. By the people, for the people. This is why anarchy is skeptical of "government" because government always inevitably moves to a tier above "the people" on the ladder of social hierarchy.

It's debatable what CHAZ was doing because there's a lot of convoluted narrative surrounding it. But if I accept the premise that they were trying to "break free", then obviously I think that's wishful thinking at best. Frankly, I don't much stock in what they think they were doing. I maintain that they were tools of the corporations. Their "plight" is designed to distract from real issues. These aren't educated persons with great outlooks. They're fostered crybabies that are disassociated from the real world mostly. (And I get the irony that I sound elitist in saying this :lol).

[Spurtacular]

Best we can do is hold them to merciless accountability, but that's also not possible in the US because of the prevalence of conspiracy theories, partisan disagreement and R and D fans alike not wanting to abandon their team.

:lol Crying about "conspiracy theories"

Like I say, you take it personally that people are calling out the elites. You really believe they're looking out for you.

[Spurtacular]

Trump is the perfect example. He's fucked up in so many ways that is beyond belief, he should've been ousted long ago, but the R team won't forsake him and think everything negative about him is a "deep state" ploy. So here we are.

:lol Snowflake can't respect the voters.
:lol Cries about the team construct while bawling that his team lost.

[Spurtacular]

We also have too much political disagreement in the country to collectively "take our government back."

Sure. And it's made worse when we disagree about stuff that doesn't matter, like fake systematic racism. Again, the elites got what they wanted.
They can now fuck us over while their bought and paid for media highlights fake issues instead of talking about real ones. TheGreatYacht

[IronMexican]

You're so butthurt that you're saying that the government by the people for the people is stupid. :lol

We're fucking stupid, though.

[Dirks_Finale]

Because conservatives are the party of trump now. The days of "moderate republicans" are long and gone, and probably have been since the tea party.


Negative. We still exist.

[IronMexican]

Sure. And it's made worse when we disagree about stuff that doesn't matter, like fake systematic racism. Again, the elites got what they wanted.

To en extent I agree. I agree that we need to fight the racism that police have towards minorities. I hate leaving my house for work at 5 in the morning and having a cop flash their light at me, It's demoralizing and something no one should have to go thugh, and probably something only something peiple living in the city go through. So I enjoy when people push back and make police have to second guess what they do.

I just can't stand the corporations who are just there, ready to cash in on whatever they can. That being the BLM movemenet, or slapping a rainbow on their billboard, because it's that time of the month.

[IronMexican]

Negative. We still exist.

You exist but trump runs your party:lol

Ylu are few and far between

[Spurtacular]

I believe in universal healthcare, and no argument will convince me otherwise. You think it's the first step toward communism, and no argument will convince you otherwise, so again, here we are. I honestly think the best theoretical solution to this is implementing hard states rights. If Alabama wants for-profit-healthcare, cool. If California wants universal healthcare, cool. And states fund it out of their pocket, and we get rid of states subsidizing other states. Mississippi, Arkansas, Alabama and the rest of these deep south states can "pull themselves up by their bootstraps."

You do realize it's Democrats who are taking the handouts in the red states? If you want to make welfare a state by state issue, guess who's gonna get their systems overloaded? :lol

Look, big government was never Constitutional. And the people who have sought to institute it haven't sought to change the Constitution by the rules; they've only bypassed it. That's why we have all these problems. People like you don't want to play by the rules; but you want to cry your eyeballs out when stuff doesn't work.

[Spurtacular]

To en extent I agree. I agree that we need to fight the racism that police have towards minorities. I hate leaving my house for work at 5 in the morning and having a cop flash their light at me, It's demoralizing and something no one should have to go thugh, and probably something only something peiple living in the city go through. So I enjoy when people push back and make police have to second guess what they do.

I just can't stand the corporations who are just there, ready to cash in on whatever they can. That being the BLM movemenet, or slapping a rainbow on their billboard, because it's that time of the month.

That happens to us all. I'm white. It happens to me.

Guess who it doesn't happen to? The guy driving a Mercedes Benz. And if it does, he'll live. He's going to a job that easily pays whatever ticket he doesn't get.
They want us fighting because then we're not talking about how they're getting rich. They don't want us talking about how they're getting rich for fake COVID hospitalizations.

[Spurtacular]

We also have too much political disagreement in the country to collectively "take our government back." I believe in universal healthcare, and no argument will convince me otherwise. You think it's the first step toward communism, and no argument will convince you otherwise, so again, here we are. I honestly think the best theoretical solution to this is implementing hard states rights. If Alabama wants for-profit-healthcare, cool. If California wants universal healthcare, cool. And states fund it out of their pocket, and we get rid of states subsidizing other states. Mississippi, Arkansas, Alabama and the rest of these deep south states can "pull themselves up by their bootstraps."

And the role of the Federal Government should be restricted to foreign affairs ONLY (as originally intended), with the president basically acting as the lead diplomat. Not the LEADER of the country. I think this would heal a lot of division. The US is too culturally and ideologically different from region to region. One person can't and shouldn't represent us all. The President is an obsolete concept.

Well, even though I :lol'd at your initial argumentation, I agree with you on limiting the scope of the Feds. We all know Commerce Clause, etc. was BS. Feds have the power. But we are certainly in the minority on our outlook. The people don't agree won't agree 'til it's too late and they're getting f'd up the arse by big brother.

[Spurtacular]

"deep state" ploy.

I don't care if you think Trump is the worst person in the world and it's somehow true.
The fact that you don't understand what has happened here speaks to your hyper partisanship.
You should step back and get perspective.

[midnightpulp]

That happens to us all. I'm white. It happens to me.

Guess who it doesn't happen to? The guy driving a Mercedes Benz. And if it does, he'll live. He's going to a job that easily pays whatever ticket he doesn't get.
They want us fighting because then we're not talking about how they're getting rich. They don't want us talking about how they're getting rich for fake COVID hospitalizations.

But your side doesn't want to increase their taxes and limit their power. Jeff Bezos shouldn't have 200 billion worth of power behind him. I'm no communist, but there has to be a middle ground to limit the kind of power a person of that kind of wealth has.

[midnightpulp]

I don't care if you think Trump is the worst person in the world and it's somehow true.
The fact that you don't understand what has happened here speaks to your hyper partisanship.
You should step back and get perspective.

So you believe, you really believe, that Trump is out to fight the "deep state?" The guy is really just a bargain basement republican with a big mouth. There's nothing "revolutionary" in his platform. Never has been. He's "deep state" all the same and is enriching himself just the same, like every other sociopathic politician.

[Spurtacular]

But your side doesn't want to increase their taxes and limit their power. Jeff Bezos shouldn't have 200 billion worth of power behind him. I'm no communist, but there has to be a middle ground to limit the kind of power a person of that kind of wealth has.

I don't think I ever argue so vociferously about taxing the uber rich. Nor do I sperm shield for the corporations tax loop holes.
But let's not pretend that the we're not talking about just taxing the hell out of people who are just doing well when these debates arise.
If we can compartmentalize it to the oligarchs, who I think are the root of these problems, then sure. Let's do that. Let's talk about getting rid of the fed, etc.
I'm all for the social contract being real while not punishing merit.

[IronMexican]

That happens to us all. I'm white. It happens to me.

Guess who it doesn't happen to? The guy driving a Mercedes Benz. And if it does, he'll live. He's going to a job that easily pays whatever ticket he doesn't get.
They want us fighting because then we're not talking about how they're getting rich. They don't want us talking about how they're getting rich for fake COVID hospitalizations.

It doesn't matter. I live in one of the upper class black neighborhoods in LA, but it means nothing. The old man watering his grass at 5 in the morning gets the light flashed at him, much like I do. Cars have nothingto do with it, and it's a lot about where you live. And if you live in an area with black and brown people, the cops are going to hit you with their lights, even if it's just a way to demoralize you.

[Spurtacular]

So you believe, you really believe, that Trump is out to fight the "deep state?" The guy is really just a bargain basement republican with a big mouth. There's nothing "revolutionary" in his platform. Never has been. He's "deep state" all the same and is enriching himself just the same, like every other sociopathic politician.

That's a goalpost move. You were laughing that the deep state is real. Let's not make this about your TDS.

[midnightpulp]

You do realize it's Democrats who are taking the handouts in the red states? If you want to make welfare a state by state issue, guess who's gonna get their systems overloaded? :lol

Look, big government was never Constitutional. And the people who have sought to institute it haven't sought to change the Constitution by the rules; they've only bypassed it. That's why we have all these problems. People like you don't want to play by the rules; but you want to cry your eyeballs out when stuff doesn't work.

I'm sure all those white trash fentynal addicts in Missouri and Oklahoma are "democrats."

https://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelpinto/2987025203

[Spurtacular]

It doesn't matter. I live in one of the upper class black neighborhoods in LA, but it means nothing. The old man watering his grass at 5 in the morning gets the light flashed at him, much like I do. Cars have nothingto do with it, and it's a lot about where you live. And if you live in an area with black and brown people, the cops are going to hit you with their lights, even if it's just a way to demoralize you.

Cops speak money like everyone else. If you live in that good a neighborhood, they're not systematically screwing with people. They've been paid.

[midnightpulp]

That's a goalpost move. You were laughing that the deep state is real. Let's not make this about your TDS.

Nice dodge of the question. This isn't about TDS. Trump's platform is mainstream republican. What makes you believe a mainstream republican is going to fight the "deep state?" I would expect someone who vowed to fight the "deep state" would have a revolutionary platform of some kind. But Trump is bargain basement tax cuts for the rich, hard-line immigration, pro-military, pro-Jeebus, and stacking the court with mainstream conservative judges.

[midnightpulp]

I don't think I ever argue so vociferously about taxing the uber rich. Nor do I sperm shield for the corporations tax loop holes.
But let's not pretend that the we're not talking about just taxing the hell out of people who are just doing well when these debates arise.
If we can compartmentalize it to the oligarchs, who I think are the root of these problems, then sure. Let's do that. Let's talk about getting rid of the fed, etc.
I'm all for the social contract being real while not punishing merit.

I am. I wouldn't call for more taxes on the middle and lower classes. I would be in favor of tax breaks for small businesses under a certain valuation (because a 100 million dollar company can still call itself a "small business"). I'm all for building up small, family owned "mainstreet businesses" anyway possible and reducing corporate market share.

[Spurtacular]

I'm sure all those white trash fentynal addicts in Missouri and Oklahoma are "democrats."

https://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelpinto/2987025203

I never mentioned race. Funny how your mind went there, eh? But those white addicts will be moving to the blue states too.
Create incentives, people act accordingly.

[Spurtacular]

I am. I wouldn't call for more taxes on the middle and lower classes. I would be in favor of tax breaks for small businesses under a certain valuation (because a 100 million dollar company can still call itself a "small business"). I'm all for building up small, family owned "mainstreet businesses" anyway possible and reducing corporate market share.

I think that's a healthy outlook.

[Spurtacular]

Nice dodge of the question. This isn't about TDS. Trump's platform is mainstream republican. What makes you believe a mainstream republican is going to fight the "deep state?" I would expect someone who vowed to fight the "deep state" would have a revolutionary platform of some kind. But Trump is bargain basement tax cuts for the rich, hard-line immigration, pro-military, pro-Jeebus, and stacking the court with mainstream conservative judges.

Uh huh. And this all says the deep state is a hoax, somehow?

[IronMexican]

Nice dodge of the question. This isn't about TDS. Trump's platform is mainstream republican. What makes you believe a mainstream republican is going to fight the "deep state?" I would expect someone who vowed to fight the "deep state" would have a revolutionary platform of some kind. But Trump is bargain basement tax cuts for the rich, hard-line immigration, pro-military, pro-Jeebus, and stacking the court with mainstream conservative judges.

He 100% offers all of what you mentioned. He's a neocom solely on following his oarty, but it's funny because he has helped rehabilitate W bush(among other republicans) and also made people like Spurtacular think he is offering something different when he isn;t. He's the same person W is and probably passed all the same bills McCain and Romney would have, had they won

[midnightpulp]

Uh huh. And this all says the deep state is a hoax, somehow?

If we define the "deep state" as a collective of sociopathic politicians and their corporate handlers doing unethical shit behind the scenes to enrich themselves, then the deep state is very real and Trump is a part of that "deep state." The "hoax" is that Trump is fighting these bad actors. He's a part of them. What's the first thing they did on their first official government visit to China? Ivanka cut a 150 million dollar trademark deal with a Chinese company :lmao

Yeah, not acting like deep state oligarchs at all.

[Spurtacular]

If we define the "deep state" as a collective of sociopathic politicians and their corporate handlers doing unethical shit behind the scenes to enrich themselves, then the deep state is very real and Trump is a part of that "deep state." The "hoax" is that Trump is fighting these bad actors. He's a part of them. What's the first thing they did on their first official government visit to China? Ivanka cut a 150 million dollar trademark deal with a Chinese company :lmao

Yeah, not acting like deep state oligarchs at all.

If you want to see it that way, fine. At least you're not denying the corruption of human nature.

[Spurtacular]

He 100% offers all of what you mentioned. He's a neocom solely on following his oarty, but it's funny because he has helped rehabilitate W bush(among other republicans) and also made people like Spurtacular think he is offering something different when he isn;t. He's the same person W is and probably passed all the same bills McCain and Romney would have, had they won

That's a misrepresentation of how I see it, tbh. I'm sure you only seen so many of my posts.

[midnightpulp]

If you want to see it that way, fine. At least you're not denying the corruption of human nature.

Not at all. The big problem is "the sociopath problem." Sociopaths crave power and control. Politics and wealth are ways of obtaining power and control, so ergo, those who will relentlessly pursue wealth and power are sociopaths. These are the people who wind up with the wealth and power and it invariably fucks us over, because I believe that decent, moral, "regular" people don't really crave power or excessive wealth (they would enjoy having excessive wealth, but they don't crave it nor would do anything to obtain it).

I just don't see what Trump is doing to fight the "deep state?" Money controls politics, corporations have all the money, a true fighter of the deep state would roll in like Teddy Roosevelt and bust the shit out of all these conglomerates. Trump is just another nose in the trough.

[Spurtacular]

Not at all. The big problem is "the sociopath problem." Sociopaths crave power and control. Politics and wealth are ways of obtaining power and control, so ergo, those who will relentlessly pursue wealth and power are sociopaths. These are the people who wind up with the wealth and power and it invariably fucks us over, because I believe that decent, moral, "regular" people don't really crave power or excessive wealth (they would enjoy having excessive wealth, but they don't crave it nor would do anything to obtain it).

I just don't see what Trump is doing to fight the "deep state?" Money controls politics, corporations have all the money, a true fighter of the deep state would roll in like Teddy Roosevelt and bust the shit out of all these conglomerates. Trump is just another nose in the trough.

Maybe not so much ultimately. It is good that people are understanding that these institutions get off on their power and play by their own rules though.

Before this, people cited FBI, CIA, etc. like they were infallible.

[TheGreatYacht]

Maybe not so much ultimately. It is good that people are understanding that these institutions get off on their power and play by their own rules though.

Before this, people cited FBI, CIA, etc. like they were infallible.

Unfortunately both sides - left and right - still trust these criminal organizations when it suits their needs. The left trusts them when it comes to Covid and Russiagate and the blind MAGA patriots trust them when it comes to digging dirt on Venezuela, Iran or China. That's how you know when someone has woken up from the matrix, when they no longer have any trust in the criminal organizations of our government.

[Spurtacular]

Unfortunately both sides - left and right - still trust these criminal organizations when it suits their needs. The left trusts them when it comes to Covid and Russiagate and the blind MAGA patriots trust them when it comes to digging dirt on Venezuela, Iran or China. That's how you know when someone has woken up from the matrix, when they no longer have any trust in the criminal organizations of our government.

Conservatives not nearly as much. Obama weaponized IRS against them. Hillary/Obama weaponized FBI against them. CIA weaponized themselves against Trump.
Many will have long memories.

[TheGreatYacht]

Conservatives not nearly as much. Obama weaponized IRS against them. Hillary/Obama weaponized FBI against them. CIA weaponized themselves against Trump.
Many will have long memories.

When leftists expose the US war crimes against Palestinians, Venezuelans or Yemen the conservatives just call them unpatriotic or conspiracy theorists. Sounds a lot to me like the snowflakes of the left tbh. But I do think it's much easier to wake up conservatives than Chumpettes.

[Spurminator]

That happens to us all. I'm white. It happens to me.

Guess who it doesn't happen to? The guy driving a Mercedes Benz. And if it does, he'll live. He's going to a job that easily pays whatever ticket he doesn't get.
They want us fighting because then we're not talking about how they're getting rich. They don't want us talking about how they're getting rich for fake COVID hospitalizations.

Black guys in nice cars don't get harassed by police?

Interesting take.

[ElNono]

Nice way to deflect from owning up to your logic. Again, I ask, WHY are they cooking Covid stats to control us but didn't cook the CHAZ situation to also control us? I figure there is nothing the elites would hate more than a communal, autonomous society free from government and corporations. I just want your skepticism to be even-handed and consistent. The CHAZ was indeed a STATEMENT against elite control. Yet you started a thread decrying all the lawlessness in the CHAZ. What makes you think those murders weren't a "false flag?"

And no, I wasn't in favor of the CHAZ if you want to request that I be consistent.

:lol why are you trying to apply logic with conspiratards? if they had an ounce of introspection they would've asked those very basic questions themselves, and figured out rather quickly they don't add up. I would even hazard some of them are aware of that already, but "want to believe".

When dealing with this kind of mentally troubled individuals, you definitely want to put in the balance what your time is worth, tbh

[vy65]

Okay, so Coronavirus has killed 130k people, and wingnuts on various forums and social media platforms keep insisting the media is "fear mongering" us so they can control us, drive up ratings, etc. They also keep saying, "Yeee haaaawwww, I'm less likely to die of the Covid than a car accident!" (not true). They'll also say that anyone fearing Covid (liberals) are pussies and need to toughen up and live life. Cool.

But when a story breaks about an illegal alien murdering someone, Conservatives believe that is just the start of Messicans and other browns flooding into their neighborhoods and raping and pillaging everything in sight. Or we can go back further and document their fear of various Islamic terrorist factions, them thinking ISIS or Al Qaeda will be soon flying planes into every skyscraper in the country if we don't "shock and awe" the Middle East back to the stone age and ban travel from the Middle East.

Facts are, you're much, much more likely to die of Covid than be killed by a Messican or Muslim, but conservatives fear the latter event much more.

Any theories on why that is? Seems to make no sense to me given the odds of each happening. Again, you're more likely to harmed or killed by the Coronavirus than an illegal alien or terrorist. Wonder why conservative don't call it fear mongering when the Fox Newses and Briebarts breathlessly report on instances of an illegal killing someone in a car accident or Muslim knife attack in the UK. Those events are exceedingly are.

I am really glad for the protests. I think it pretty obvious now that police departments throughout the country have deep, systemic issues that they need to address. In an ideal world, I’d support some version of anarchy because that be meaningful liberty from oppression, as you mention downthread. But we don’t live in that world, so a deep reckoning of police power is incredibly welcome.

That said, there is something of an unspoken assumption in your post - that being that those on the other side are seemingly consistent and that the hypocrisy is solely on the conservatives side. I don’t think it consistent to push away concern for the coronavirus when we’re pushing for police reform and protesting racism and then be so concerned about it when those protests die down and we return to business as usual. There is an untold amount of suffering and pain being visited upon small businesses throughout the US. There’s no meaningful plan to help them weather the storm of the second surge over the past 5 weeks. If anything, it seems like we’ve collectively made a decision that bars, restaurants, small shops, etc will be sacrificed because we fucked up round one of lockdown. I’m not scaremongering — Mayor Adler is proposing a 25 day lockdown of Austin, which is retarded because nowhere else in Texas or the sunbelt will follow suit.

If people are concerned - as they should be - about alleviating others suffering, why aren’t “leftists” (I hate that term) having a conversation about how to save small business? Why aren’t liberals insisting on the need to go to restaurants or small shops etc (responsibly and safely) to make sure that they remain in business? I’m painting with broad strokes here, but the post-protest narrative have been “spikes caused by reopening” and not “how do we make sure people can still make a living.” If the concern was truly about stopping suffering, I’d imagine that being a broader point of emphasis.

I may be misreading between the lines of your post. But I don’t think it fair to characterize hypocrisy and contradiction as something exclusively in the possession of conservatives.

[SnakeBoy]

The thing I noticed about left wingers during the coronavirus pandemic is that they cowered in complete fear until they reached their limit then they lashed out with violent protests and total disregard for protecting others from the virus

[ChumpDumper]

The thing I noticed about left wingers during the coronavirus pandemic is that they cowered in complete fear until they reached their limit then they lashed out with violent protests and total disregard for protecting others from the virusThat's when the Balous said it was OK to go out.

Bonus points for saying every protest was violent. Honest brokering.

[SnakeBoy]

Bonus points for saying every protest was violent. Honest brokering.

Oh is it dishonest to generalize about left wingers?

[ChumpDumper]

Oh is it dishonest to generalize about left wingers?Well, if you want to get specific, I noticed right wingers couldn't bring themselves to say anything critical of President Trump while going out of their way to shame me for buying and wearing masks in general. One tried to shame me for posting a picture of what was later to be determined the wrong kind of mask unless part of that mask was covered in tape when that mask wasn't even purchased.

[Spurtacular]

Black guys in nice cars don't get harassed by police?

Interesting take.

You can't quote me saying that, Sadbert.

Are you just an idiot?

[IronMexican]

That's a misrepresentation of how I see it, tbh. I'm sure you only seen so many of my posts.

You're right. Definitely haven't seen many of your posts.

[ElNono]

If people are concerned - as they should be - about alleviating others suffering, why aren’t “leftists” (I hate that term) having a conversation about how to save small business? Why aren’t liberals insisting on the need to go to restaurants or small shops etc (responsibly and safely) to make sure that they remain in business? I’m painting with broad strokes here, but the post-protest narrative have been “spikes caused by reopening” and not “how do we make sure people can still make a living.” If the concern was truly about stopping suffering, I’d imagine that being a broader point of emphasis.

Well, let's have that convo... I mean you don't need to be a lefty or righty to have that conversation.

IMO, you simply cannot save businesses by just insisting anything. People largely don't want to get infected, period. Be it because they don't want to risk spreading to other, potentially older, people in their families, because they don't have insurance and can't afford to get sick, or simply because they don't want to deal with illness.

I don't think advocacy and good wishes is really a solution here. Same with the long list of unemployed. I see that akin to the notion that charity can replace a social safety net. It's simply not realistic.

Unfortunately, the main reason we're having this conversation is because you know it's next to impossible for this Congress to pass a UBI, or extended unemployment benefits, or even be transparent who are they giving these 'small business' forgivable loans to. And *this is an emergency*... when Wall Street had it's emergency in 2008, they were lining up to bail them out and give them all the money they needed. No such thing for Main Street.

[boutons_deux]

lefties, aka smart people, aren't going to risk their health and lives to keep small businesses from folding.

righties, aka the low-ed, low-wage assholes, are hurting all businesses by making the pandemic much worse than it was in April, PROLONGING the social/economic crisis, and very probably, in some smart states, not the Confederacy, forcing another shutdown.

The ONLY solution is for the Feds to keep printing money For the People, for the unemployed, for SMBs, nothing more for the oligarchy, BigCorp, BigFinance. aka Keynesian counter-cyclical spending to offset the private sector lack of spending.

Congress gave wealthy r/e investors a tax break in CARES for paper losses equal to 13M weeks x $600

Feds and Treasury printed $Ts for BigFinance in the Banksters Great Depression, leaving Main St and 4M homeowners fucked.

btw, as awesome as NYC has done in controlling their pandemic, NYC has today postponed indoor dining indefinitely

Bitch at Moscow Mitch and Repugs for NOT passing the Dems' HEROES Act. That ain't the lefties' problem.

[IronMexican]

lefties, aka smart people, aren't going to risk their health and lives to keep small businesses from folding.

righties, aka the low-ed, low-wage assholes, are hurting all businesses by making the pandemic much worse than it was in April, PROLONGING the social/economic crisis, and very probably, in some smart states, not the Confederacy, forcing another shutdown.




cringe

[DarrinS]

Are we going to pretend that the left hasn't lost their collective minds?

[ChumpDumper]

Are we going to pretend that the left hasn't lost their collective minds?You still think Trump's doing a great job. Glass houses.

[vy65]

Well, let's have that convo... I mean you don't need to be a lefty or righty to have that conversation.

IMO, you simply cannot save businesses by just insisting anything. People largely don't want to get infected, period. Be it because they don't want to risk spreading to other, potentially older, people in their families, because they don't have insurance and can't afford to get sick, or simply because they don't want to deal with illness.

I don't think advocacy and good wishes is really a solution here. Same with the long list of unemployed. I see that akin to the notion that charity can replace a social safety net. It's simply not realistic.

Unfortunately, the main reason we're having this conversation is because you know it's next to impossible for this Congress to pass a UBI, or extended unemployment benefits, or even be transparent who are they giving these 'small business' forgivable loans to. And *this is an emergency*... when Wall Street had it's emergency in 2008, they were lining up to bail them out and give them all the money they needed. No such thing for Main Street.

Well, sure. I guess my point is more a matter of rhetoric than concrete policy. I think there’s borderline rampant hypocrisy on both sides. Righties are wrong to point the finger at protests but then act like wearing a mask is no different than wearing a Star of David. Likewise, lefties are wrong to support the protests but act like someone who goes to a local bar or restaurant is some war criminal who’s killing grandma. My point is that polarization cuts both ways, and is evident from the way we talk about the issue, especially here on the board.

I think some form of UBI is a really good idea. But it’s a necessary not sufficient condition of moving forward. I think that masks should be mandatory. I think the federal government needs to stop abdicating it’s responsibility and coordinate supply chains so that testing ramps up and doesn’t hit supply side issues. I think that the feds also need to begin a public health education program to combat twitterati that think they’ve become epedimioligists overnight.

However, I think that all forms of business need to be opened up to the extent they can. There’s no reason why an outdoor bar should be closed right now. There’s no reason why an outdoor concert should be stopped right now. If we could protest racism for weeks, we can provide people a night out at some approximation of normalcy. Fighting racism is incredibly important and laudable. So is making a living. If we are for one we should be for the other as well.

[ElNono]

Are we going to pretend that the left hasn't lost their collective minds?

??? what do you mean?

[Will Hunting]

Are we going to pretend that the left hasn't lost their collective minds?
When was the last time you didn’t think the left had lost its mind? Be honest.

[TheGreatYacht]

Well, sure. I guess my point is more a matter of rhetoric than concrete policy. I think there’s borderline rampant hypocrisy on both sides. Righties are wrong to point the finger at protests but then act like wearing a mask is no different than wearing a Star of David. Likewise, lefties are wrong to support the protests but act like someone who goes to a local bar or restaurant is some war criminal who’s killing grandma. My point is that polarization cuts both ways, and is evident from the way we talk about the issue, especially here on the board.

I think some form of UBI is a really good idea. But it’s a necessary not sufficient condition of moving forward. I think that masks should be mandatory. I think the federal government needs to stop abdicating it’s responsibility and coordinate supply chains so that testing ramps up and doesn’t hit supply side issues. I think that the feds also need to begin a public health education program to combat twitterati that think they’ve become epedimioligists overnight.

However, I think that all forms of business need to be opened up to the extent they can. There’s no reason why an outdoor bar should be closed right now. There’s no reason why an outdoor concert should be stopped right now. If we could protest racism for weeks, we can provide people a night out at some approximation of normalcy. Fighting racism is incredibly important and laudable. So is making a living. If we are for one we should be for the other as well.

I don't agree w everything you said such as mandatory masks but this is what I call compromise or meeting somewhere in between.

[Chris]

What stood out to me is who the snowflakes really are, tbh... amazing tantrums only because you've been asked to wear a mask while in public and near other people...

my body my choice

[ElNono]

Well, sure. I guess my point is more a matter of rhetoric than concrete policy. I think there’s borderline rampant hypocrisy on both sides. Righties are wrong to point the finger at protests but then act like wearing a mask is no different than wearing a Star of David. Likewise, lefties are wrong to support the protests but act like someone who goes to a local bar or restaurant is some war criminal who’s killing grandma. My point is that polarization cuts both ways, and is evident from the way we talk about the issue, especially here on the board.

I think some form of UBI is a really good idea. But it’s a necessary not sufficient condition of moving forward. I think that masks should be mandatory. I think the federal government needs to stop abdicating it’s responsibility and coordinate supply chains so that testing ramps up and doesn’t hit supply side issues. I think that the feds also need to begin a public health education program to combat twitterati that think they’ve become epedimioligists overnight.

However, I think that all forms of business need to be opened up to the extent they can. There’s no reason why an outdoor bar should be closed right now. There’s no reason why an outdoor concert should be stopped right now. If we could protest racism for weeks, we can provide people a night out at some approximation of normalcy. Fighting racism is incredibly important and laudable. So is making a living. If we are for one we should be for the other as well.

I think States are trying to balance things as they handle this. ie: here in Cali, dine-in in restaurants have been suspended again due to the recent spike in infections, but outdoor dinning (with precautions like social distancing) has not. Sometimes those regulations are even split by county, which I think makes sense, at least, as far as the State can handle things.

The issue with concerts is that it's extremely challenging to enforce safe distancing. Outdoors make sense when people are spread out, but when you have them absolutely packed, it stops making sense. Distancing means less people attending, and then you have to evaluate if it's economically feasible.

Like you said, there's such polarization and stupid people just baiting the other side (I get that it's an election year, but having actual politicos feeding this is irresponsible, tbh), that's difficult for this information to get through.

[vy65]

I also think it’s more important than ever to take a step back and ask some fundamental questions about the system of government itself. When you look at the spikes and the amount dead and compare it to other first world countries, there can be no conclusion other than that America failed and failed hard. And that’s directly on our leadership, especially at the federal level. I don’t think there’s any question that the Donald is uniquely ill suited, under qualified, and absolutely unfit for the job. But his ability to fuck us over this hard is directly on a voting public that thinks it more important to drink libcuck tears or :cry Muh Deepstate :cry than to actually evaluate whether someone is capable of leading. This is the flip side of the fact that trump supporters can’t defend his coronavirus response and endlessly deflect to other inane topics.

So what do we do about that? You could impose voting restrictions based on education level. (I’m in favor). You could make political office more appealing to smarter people by instituting an nba-level pay scale for senior office. You could place qualification requirements on candidates (I.e., education). Or some mixture of all the above. I know that’s profoundly anti-democratic, but we’re living at the opposite end of the spectrum where you’re as qualified as a preeminent epidemiologist if you have a twitter account, apparently. The pandemic and the federal response is direct refutation of the notion that everyone should have a say in how government operates.

[Spurminator]

Are we going to pretend that the left hasn't lost their collective minds?

Until the left nominates, elects, and approves of someone like Donald Trump to the tune of 90%, they're still ahead in the sanity department.

[ElNono]

my body my choice

^^^ Snowflake exhibit A... BTW, as I was telling TGY, it's not your body that's being protected here, it's somebody else's.

This is closer to drink & drive. It's not protecting you, it's protecting the people you can potentially kill by your carelessness.

[TheGreatYacht]

Apples and oranges. Covid doesn't kill anywhere near as much as drinking and driving.

[vy65]

I think States are trying to balance things as they handle this. ie: here in Cali, dine-in in restaurants have been suspended again due to the recent spike in infections, but outdoor dinning (with precautions like social distancing) has not. Sometimes those regulations are even split by county, which I think makes sense, at least, as far as the State can handle things.

The issue with concerts is that it's extremely challenging to enforce safe distancing. Outdoors make sense when people are spread out, but when you have them absolutely packed, it stops making sense. Distancing means less people attending, and then you have to evaluate if it's economically feasible.

Like you said, there's such polarization and stupid people just baiting the other side (I get that it's an election year, but having actual politicos feeding this is irresponsible, tbh), that's difficult for this information to get through.

Agree with much of this. States have to balance this shit and that doesn’t make sense in a pandemic. Viruses don’t observe state lines. The states have a profound role in handling the response, but the primary responsibility is on the federal government.

I disagree with the concert analogy. And this is my point: if we’re not taking issue with the protests then we shouldn’t take issue with ACL. There’s been several studies that show there has been de minimis transmission from the protests. Outdoor concerts are no different. It’s inconsistent to say outdoor protests where people are packed together are fine while other outdoor events with similar density are not. And things like ACL would provide a massive economic shot in the arm too.

[Will Hunting]

I also think it’s more important than ever to take a step back and ask some fundamental questions about the system of government itself. When you look at the spikes and the amount dead and compare it to other first world countries, there can be no conclusion other than that America failed and failed hard. And that’s directly on our leadership, especially at the federal level. I don’t think there’s any question that the Donald is uniquely I’ll suited, under qualified, and absolutely unfit for the job. But his ability to fuck us over this hard is directly on a voting public that thinks it more important the drink libcuck tears or :cry Muh Deepstate :cry than to actually evaluate whether someone is capable of leading. This is the flip side of the fact that trump supporters can’t defend his coronavirus response and endlessly deflect to other inane topics.

So what do we do about that? You could impose voting restrictions based on education level. (I’m in favor). You could make political office more appealing to smarter people by instituting an nba-level pay scale for senior office. You could place qualification requirements on candidates (I.e., education). Or some mixture of all the above. I know that’s profoundly anti-democratic, but we’re living at the opposite end of the spectrum where you’re as qualified as a preeminent epidemiologist if you have a twitter account, apparently. The pandemic and the federal response is direct refutation of the notion that everyone should have a say in how government operates.
Its never going to happen, but if you simply replaced the electoral college with a popular vote and got rid of a fucked up system where Dakota gets twice as many senators as California because of arbitrary borders I think that would take care of it. The ultimate issue is that :cry muh deepstate :cry is overrepreseted because of an outdated constitution that doesn’t account for massive population disparities.

[Chris]

^^^ Snowflake exhibit A... BTW, as I was telling TGY, it's not your body that's being protected here, it's somebody else's.

This is closer to drink & drive. It's not protecting you, it's protecting the people you can potentially kill by your carelessness.

my body my choice

[ElNono]

Apples and oranges. Covid doesn't kill anywhere near as much as drinking and driving.

That's a blatant excuse. The problem isn't the death count, it's the fact that your own stupidity precludes you from causing damage to other people, so it has to be mandated.

[ElNono]

my body my choice


my body my choice

:lol bot got stuck

[Will Hunting]

^^^ Snowflake exhibit A... BTW, as I was telling TGY, it's not your body that's being protected here, it's somebody else's.

This is closer to drink & drive. It's not protecting you, it's protecting the people you can potentially kill by your carelessness.
There’s also been ordinances since before any of us were alive requiring a certain amount of clothing in public. It’s never been legal to walk around in public completely nude, face mask requirements are just an extension of those laws. It’s not some grossly unconstitutional government overreach the way the snowflakes pretend it is.

[Spurminator]

However, I think that all forms of business need to be opened up to the extent they can. There’s no reason why an outdoor bar should be closed right now. There’s no reason why an outdoor concert should be stopped right now. If we could protest racism for weeks, we can provide people a night out at some approximation of normalcy. Fighting racism is incredibly important and laudable. So is making a living. If we are for one we should be for the other as well.

I don't disagree with this. I think some of the closures have treated some businesses in the affected categories as though they all operate exactly the same. Not all bars are unsafe. Not sure about concerts but there's probably a limited-capacity option that keeps outdoor venues open.

In hindsight the government needs a backup option to manage essential businesses in extreme circumstances. We should have shut everything down in March. Ration food and essential supplies. Stop loan repayments and all penalties. Stop mortgage and loan payments. Larger stimulus checks for individuals. There's a way to get it done, we just don't have the stomach for it. We're afraid to pause capitalism.

[vy65]

Its never going to happen, but if you simply replaced the electoral college with a popular vote and got rid of a fucked up system where Dakota gets twice as many senators as California because of arbitrary borders I think that would take care of it. The ultimate issue is that :cry muh deepstate :cry is overrepreseted because of an outdated constitution that doesn’t account for massive population disparities.

My con law professor wrote a book about how undemocratic the constitution is - and you don’t need to look further than the electoral college or the process of abolishing it to realize he’s right.

My ideas don’t require a change to the college - although that is an obvious and quick fix. So conceiveably it could be palatable to the :cry soros :cry crowd. But it ain’t never gonna happen.

[ElNono]

Agree with much of this. States have to balance this shit and that doesn’t make sense in a pandemic. Viruses don’t observe state lines. The states have a profound role in handling the response, but the primary responsibility is on the federal government.

I disagree with the concert analogy. And this is my point: if we’re not taking issue with the protests then we shouldn’t take issue with ACL. There’s been several studies that show there has been de minimis transmission from the protests. Outdoor concerts are no different. It’s inconsistent to say outdoor protests where people are packed together are fine while other outdoor events with similar density are not. And things like ACL would provide a massive economic shot in the arm too.

I take issue with protests. I get that people are angry and want to be heard, but it's undeniably a boneheaded thing to do during a pandemic, and while not the sole reason we're seeing serious infection rebounds in places, I'm sure it's also a factor.

[vy65]

I don't disagree with this. I think some of the closures have treated some businesses in the affected categories as though they all operate exactly the same. Not all bars are unsafe. Not sure about concerts but there's probably a limited-capacity option that keeps outdoor venues open.

In hindsight the government needs a backup option to manage essential businesses in extreme circumstances. We should have shut everything down in March. Ration food and essential supplies. Stop loan repayments and all penalties. Stop mortgage and loan payments. Larger stimulus checks for individuals. There's a way to get it done, we just don't have the stomach for it. We're afraid to pause capitalism.

The bit about rationing food is a bit too extreme for me, but otherwise yes. I mean, ostensibly that’s what FEMA is all about (insert x files conspiracy theory here). And many places did some approximation of what you suggest and the curve was bent. Part of the issue is how the time we bought was wasted.

[ElNono]

There’s also been ordinances since before any of us were alive requiring a certain amount of clothing in public. It’s never been legal to walk around in public completely nude, face mask requirements are just an extension of those laws. It’s not some grossly unconstitutional government overreach the way the snowflakes pretend it is.

It's worse in that this is a safety measure at this time.

[Will Hunting]

My con law professor wrote a book about how undemocratic the constitution is - and you don’t need to look further than the electoral college or the process of abolishing it to realize he’s right.

My ideas don’t require a change to the college - although that is an obvious and quick fix. So conceiveably it could be palatable to the :cry soros :cry crowd. But it ain’t never gonna happen.
The senate is even worse imo. Why the fuck are there two Dakotas? It makes no logical sense that California gets half as many votes in judicial confirmation hearings than a population that’s a small fraction of California’s just because there’s an arbitrary line diving Dakota into a north and a south state.

[vy65]

There’s also been ordinances since before any of us were alive requiring a certain amount of clothing in public. It’s never been legal to walk around in public completely nude, face mask requirements are just an extension of those laws. It’s not some grossly unconstitutional government overreach the way the snowflakes pretend it is.

This.

[ElNono]

I also think it’s more important than ever to take a step back and ask some fundamental questions about the system of government itself. When you look at the spikes and the amount dead and compare it to other first world countries, there can be no conclusion other than that America failed and failed hard. And that’s directly on our leadership, especially at the federal level. I don’t think there’s any question that the Donald is uniquely ill suited, under qualified, and absolutely unfit for the job. But his ability to fuck us over this hard is directly on a voting public that thinks it more important to drink libcuck tears or :cry Muh Deepstate :cry than to actually evaluate whether someone is capable of leading. This is the flip side of the fact that trump supporters can’t defend his coronavirus response and endlessly deflect to other inane topics.

So what do we do about that? You could impose voting restrictions based on education level. (I’m in favor). You could make political office more appealing to smarter people by instituting an nba-level pay scale for senior office. You could place qualification requirements on candidates (I.e., education). Or some mixture of all the above. I know that’s profoundly anti-democratic, but we’re living at the opposite end of the spectrum where you’re as qualified as a preeminent epidemiologist if you have a twitter account, apparently. The pandemic and the federal response is direct refutation of the notion that everyone should have a say in how government operates.

I think we do ask those questions all the time. The problem is, with this level of polarization, how do you even pass a Constitutional amendment? So it's somewhat moot.

There's actually an important case in front of the SCOTUS right now, Chiafalo v. Washington (and a separate, but related one), which can have large implications about the Electoral College.

[vy65]

The senate is even worse imo. Why the fuck are there two Dakotas? It makes no logical sense that California gets half as many votes in judicial confirmation hearings than a population that’s a small fraction of California’s just because there’s an arbitrary line diving Dakota into a north and a south state.

It makes sense when you understand that the original constitutional architecture was a watered down confederacy of states. While a confederacy of states was ultimately rejected, what we have was an attempt to prioritize states rights while still maintaining federal supremacy.

That all changed with the civil war and the 14th and 15th amendments. Changes should’ve been crammed down at that time.

[vy65]

I think we do ask those questions all the time. The problem is, with this level of polarization, how do you even pass a Constitutional amendment? So it's somewhat moot.

There's actually an important case in front of the SCOTUS right now, Chiafalo v. Washington (and a separate, but related one), which can have large implications about the Electoral College.

We do ask those questions, but I think it anathema to suggest that people shouldn’t get a say or a voice or a vote. Frankly, given that we have idiots like Chris and Spurtacular able to spout their retarded garbage is a real problem. So I think that there should be a conversation about restricting speech - I think that we don’t deserve democracy right now.

[ElNono]

We do ask those questions, but I think it anathema to suggest that people shouldn’t get a say or a voice or a vote. Frankly, given that we have idiots like Chris and Spurtacular able to spout their retarded garbage is a real problem. So I think that there should be a conversation about restricting speech - I think that we don’t deserve democracy right now.

I think that's completely anti-democratic. I'm not concerned about the Chris or Derps (or boutons, for that matter), because, at the end of the day, they're a minority. They're not the main reason Trump won.

What we really need to have a discussion about, and doesn't require a Constitutional amendment, is why do we end up with the POTUS candidates we end up with? And that's probably what should be addressed more thoroughly.

[Will Hunting]

It makes sense when you understand that the original constitutional architecture was a watered down confederacy of states. While a confederacy of states was ultimately rejected, what we have was an attempt to prioritize states rights while still maintaining federal supremacy.

That all changed with the civil war and the 14th and 15th amendments. Changes should’ve been crammed down at that time.
To be fair, Lincoln was already walking a tight rope just to do something as obviously overdue as outlawing slavery. If he tried something like making it so states like New York and Pennsylvania got more senators for having more people, border states like Kentucky and Missouri might have jumped ship..

[ElNono]

To be fair, Lincoln was already walking a tight rope just to do something as obviously overdue as outlawing slavery. If he tried something like making it so states like New York and Pennsylvania got more senators for having more people, border states like Kentucky and Missouri might have jumped ship..

In retrospect, that doesn't sound like a terrible idea... shoulda let Mexico annex them, tbh

[Will Hunting]

In retrospect, that doesn't sound like a terrible idea... shoulda let Mexico annex them, tbh
I would definitely let retard states secede from the union and after enough of them do, make all the constitutional amendments that are much needed, then let Alabama back in after its devolved into complete chaos because it needs it needs the tax welfare it gets from blue states.

[vy65]

I think that's completely anti-democratic. I'm not concerned about the Chris or Derps (or boutons, for that matter), because, at the end of the day, they're a minority. They're not the main reason Trump won.

What we really need to have a discussion about, and doesn't require a Constitutional amendment, is why do we end up with the POTUS candidates we end up with? And that's probably what should be addressed more thoroughly.

Exactly. That’s why I like the idea of making federal office seem monetarily prestigious.

If I’m a smart guy, I’m going to choose the career path where I can make 10s of millions of dollars versus the option where I’m maxed out at 200k. People go where the money is at. That’s why I suggested increasing pay for federal officials by 10x. You can sure as hell bet more intelligent and younger people will vie for federal office if they are looking at making millions rather than thousands.

[Chris]

We do ask those questions, but I think it anathema to suggest that people shouldn’t get a say or a voice or a vote. Frankly, given that we have idiots like Chris and Spurtacular able to spout their retarded garbage is a real problem. So I think that there should be a conversation about restricting speech - I think that we don’t deserve democracy right now.

asinine :lol

[vy65]

:lol

[boutons_deux]

Both party establishments are financed by the oligarchy.

Even the Dems will nominate no candidate, espouse no policy, regulation, or law that upsets BigDonor.

That's why Dems blocked progressives like Bernie, made sure McGrath won, sniff at The Squad, and are against anything progressive, like Medicare for All.

Occam's razor. In politics, simplest is to Follow The Money

[ElNono]

Exactly. That’s why I like the idea of making federal office seem monetarily prestigious.

If I’m a smart guy, I’m going to choose the career path where I can make 10s of millions of dollars versus the option where I’m maxed out at 200k. People go where the money is at. That’s why I suggested increasing pay for federal officials by 10x. You can sure as hell bet more intelligent and younger people will vie for federal office if they are looking at making millions rather than thousands.

I dunno about that, I think politicos (appear at least) to make a decent living. I would definitely put an age ceiling, just like we have a floor, for POTUS qualification if we're amending the Constitution, tbh... if you're over 55 once your term would start, you would be ineligible. This also applies to re-election.

[ElNono]

double post

[vy65]

Case in point

https://apple.news/Agrg_JgdmRPCPqsH8OVjR-Q

[Will Hunting]

I dunno about that, I think politicos (appear at least) to make a decent living. I would definitely put an age ceiling, just like we have a floor, for POTUS qualification if we're amending the Constitution, tbh... if you're over 55 once your term would start, you would be ineligible. This also applies to re-election.
I’d agree with that but would probably go 65. Definitely against presidents in their 70s though.

[midnightpulp]

We do ask those questions, but I think it anathema to suggest that people shouldn’t get a say or a voice or a vote. Frankly, given that we have idiots like Chris and Spurtacular able to spout their retarded garbage is a real problem. So I think that there should be a conversation about restricting speech - I think that we don’t deserve democracy right now.

The government should never restrict speech, but this goal can be achieved in a different way. Social media platforms just need to mercilessly crack down on "bullshit." I can hear Chris, et al caterwauling about "Big Brother" as I typed that, but they forget FREEDOM OF ASSEMBLY is also a feature of the first amendment, and a PRIVATE company has the right to police their platforms in who they allow to assemble.

A simple analogy is: If I had some conspiratard spouting dangerous nonsense in my house, I'd tell him to shut the fuck up or leave.

I'm okay with innocuous "conspiracy theories" being shared. Lizard people controlling the government, Aliens, flat earth, and what have you. But the buck stops when it comes to shit like this:

https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2020/06/fb-masks-post.png

[SnakeBoy]

Well, if you want to get specific, I noticed right wingers couldn't bring themselves to say anything critical of President Trump while going out of their way to shame me for buying and wearing masks in general. One tried to shame me for posting a picture of what was later to be determined the wrong kind of mask unless part of that mask was covered in tape when that mask wasn't even purchased.

Oh man that's sounds horrible and must be traumatic for you. If that person wasn't such a terrible human being he would've offered to send you the proper type of masks at his expense.

[Down Under]

The government should never restrict speech, but this goal can be achieved in a different way. Social media platforms just need to mercilessly crack down on "bullshit." I can hear Chris, et al caterwauling about "Big Brother" as I typed that, but they forget FREEDOM OF ASSEMBLY is also a feature of the first amendment, and a PRIVATE company has the right to police their platforms in who they allow to assemble.

A simple analogy is: If I had some conspiratard spouting dangerous nonsense in my house, I'd tell him to shut the fuck up or leave.

I'm okay with innocuous "conspiracy theories" being shared. Lizard people controlling the government, Aliens, flat earth, and what have you. But the buck stops when it comes to shit like this:

https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2020/06/fb-masks-post.png
How is this going to happen unless Social media platforms are treated as 'publishers' & held accountable for what they 'publish'.

[vy65]

The government should never restrict speech, but this goal can be achieved in a different way. Social media platforms just need to mercilessly crack down on "bullshit." I can hear Chris, et al caterwauling about "Big Brother" as I typed that, but they forget FREEDOM OF ASSEMBLY is also a feature of the first amendment, and a PRIVATE company has the right to police their platforms in who they allow to assemble.

A simple analogy is: If I had some conspiratard spouting dangerous nonsense in my house, I'd tell him to shut the fuck up or leave.

I'm okay with innocuous "conspiracy theories" being shared. Lizard people controlling the government, Aliens, flat earth, and what have you. But the buck stops when it comes to shit like this:

https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2020/06/fb-masks-post.png

That’s fine, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see a court one day say that twitter is a limited public forum that requires some level of first amendment protection. They’ve already started inching that way: https://www.americanbar.org/groups/crsj/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/the-ongoing-challenge-to-define-free-speech/public-forum-social-media/

I think we’re largely of the same mind, but I do think it necessary to go further in terms of limiting speech. The notion of the marketplace of ideas was that good speech would drown out the bad. What we’ve seen is the exact opposite. Maybe your suggestion is the right way to go, and I’m glad to see things like the Facebook boycott, but there really needs to be harsh policing of blatantly false propaganda that’s being spewed on social media.

[ChumpDumper]

Oh man that's sounds horrible and must be traumatic for you. If that person wasn't such a terrible human being he would've offered to send you the proper type of masks at his expense.:lol defensive Trump supporter trying to feel superior and condescending.

Why do you support Trump?

[midnightpulp]

How is this going to happen unless Social media platforms are treated as 'publishers' & held accountable for what they 'publish'.

Yeah, retroactively labeling them publishers might be the solution. Zuckerfuck, for instance, will never crack down on conspiratard nonsense because conspiratards sharing bullshit with each other on the platform is what drives facebook activity today.

[midnightpulp]

That’s fine, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see a court one day say that twitter is a limited public forum that requires some level of first amendment protection. They’ve already started inching that way: https://www.americanbar.org/groups/crsj/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/the-ongoing-challenge-to-define-free-speech/public-forum-social-media/

I think we’re largely of the same mind, but I do think it necessary to go further in terms of limiting speech. The notion of the marketplace of ideas was that good speech would drown out the bad. What we’ve seen is the exact opposite. Maybe your suggestion is the right way to go, and I’m glad to see things like the Facebook boycott, but there really needs to be harsh policing of blatantly false propaganda that’s being spewed on social media.

Yep, the internet has changed that dynamic. Before the internet, the marketplace of ideas had more efficacy since the lone dumbass minority opinion would get drowned out by a high ratio of truth, i.e. you might find one book in the library about an Alien conspiracy or one television special might air about it. Reasonable people would conclude if there's only one book about an Alien conspiracy in the library, it's probably not true. Now the "lone dumbass opinion" and can stay in their echo chambers with a simple google search. There's no longer "one book in the library," there's millions. And if there's millions of blogs and youtube videos about it, it MUST be true.

[midnightpulp]

^the illustration of how the internet has changed the marketplace of ideas dynamic is the flat earth conspiracy. Belief of a flat earth has actually increased over the years :lol

[vy65]

Yep, the internet has changed that dynamic. Before the internet, the marketplace of ideas had more efficacy since the lone dumbass minority opinion would get drowned out by a high ratio of truth, i.e. you might find one book in the library about an Alien conspiracy or one television special might air about it. Reasonable people would conclude if there's only one book about an Alien conspiracy in the library, it's probably not true. Now the "lone dumbass opinion" and can stay in their echo chambers with a simple google search. There's no longer "one book in the library," there's millions. And if there's millions of blogs and youtube videos about it, it MUST be true.

The flip side to this, and one that I think is more terrifying, is that expertise seems to not matter anymore. And it’s not just us sitting here Monday morning epidemiologisting. It’s that lay people think they are as qualified if not more qualified than experts. I think this started with climate change, but we’re seeing people express flat out incorrect shit while at the same discrediting an experts opinion. Several here have posted blatantly incorrect tweets on legal issues. There should be a rule where if you get caught spreading flat out lies, your ability to speak on the subject is revoked.

[ElNono]

The flip side to this, and one that I think is more terrifying, is that expertise seems to not matter anymore. And it’s not just us sitting here Monday morning epidemiologisting. It’s that lay people think they are as qualified if not more qualified than experts. I think this started with climate change, but we’re seeing people express flat out incorrect shit while at the same discrediting an experts opinion. Several here have posted blatantly incorrect tweets on legal issues. There should be a rule where if you get caught spreading flat out lies, your ability to speak on the subject is revoked.

How you handle that though? Take Dan Patrick, the former politico turned armchair epidemiologist calling out Dr Fauci and a cadre of ignorants backing him up. (and you can have any disagreements with Dr Fauci, and point out mistakes he's made, but flat out saying he lacks authority to talk about the subject matter is ridiculous).

You know what the real problem is? We have little memory. You would think the internet would enable the exact opposite, and allow us to educate ourselves and a guy like Patrick to be shunned as an idiot in charge for the rest of whatever political career he has left.

Instead, smart people figured out how to cash out on the gullible idiots through JooTubes and Patreon. So there's the opportunists too. It just really has turned largely into an idiocracy, and guys like the POTUS has given that minority a megaphone.

It's just not clear to me what you do about that, other than make sure to tell people to show up and vote, turn the page, and leave it as another black mark in American history.

[vy65]

How you handle that though? Take Dan Patrick, the former politico turned armchair epidemiologist calling out Dr Fauci and a cadre of ignorants backing him up. (and you can have any disagreements with Dr Fauci, and point out mistakes he's made, but flat out saying he lacks authority to talk about the subject matter is ridiculous).

You know what the real problem is? We have little memory. You would think the internet would enable the exact opposite, and allow us to educate ourselves and a guy like Patrick to be shunned as an idiot in charge for the rest of whatever political career he has left.

Instead, smart people figured out how to cash out on the gullible idiots through JooTubes and Patreon. So there's the opportunists too. It just really has turned largely into an idiocracy, and guys like the POTUS has given that minority a megaphone.

It's just not clear to me what you do about that, other than make sure to tell people to show up and vote, turn the page, and leave it as another black mark in American history.

So I think there are several ways of skinning that cat. Making state and federal officials have to have some sort of advanced graduate degree (ma, mpa, phd) could act as a sort of indirect filter for idiots like dan Patrick. I think the most important change has to be cultural. Not everyone is smart. Not everyone’s opinion matters. Not everyone is an expert. Idiots who spread lies threw social media under the guise of attacking experts as “deep state operatives” need to be silenced. We need to cultivate a culture of respect for knowledge and expertise. That’s all very general I know.

I do agree with your sentiment that we should know better about charlatans like Dan P. He strikes me as a useful idiot type that big business (Fertita, Miller, etc) bought. I’ve always agreed that getting money out of politics is a critical first step so getting rid of Citizen's United would be another measure as well.

But in the end, I don’t know. We may have crossed the rubicon on this front

[ElNono]

So I think there are several ways of skinning that cat. Making state and federal officials have to have some sort of advanced graduate degree (ma, mpa, phd) could act as a sort of indirect filter for idiots like dan Patrick. I think the most important change has to be cultural. Not everyone is smart. Not everyone’s opinion matters. Not everyone is an expert. Idiots who spread lies threw social media under the guise of attacking experts as “deep state operatives” need to be silenced. We need to cultivate a culture of respect for knowledge and expertise. That’s all very general I know.

I do agree with your sentiment that we should know better about charlatans like Dan P. He strikes me as a useful idiot type that big business (Fertita, Miller, etc) bought. I’ve always agreed that getting money out of politics is a critical first step so getting rid of Citizen's United would be another measure as well.

But in the end, I don’t know. We may have crossed the rubicon on this front

I just don't think degrees is a good barometer. We have both people that didn't get a formal education but are relatively brilliant and upstanding, and you have people with degrees that are bible thumping idiots or soulless opportunists.

I think this circles around power and money, and so I'm more in agreement with the second part of your post. Capitalism is great, don't get me wrong, but at some point the drive for power breeds corruption, and I think we're seeing some of that.

There's just some normalization of what was otherwise completely corrupt and reprehensible behavior (and this predates this administration, tbh, these fellas just took the mask completely off).

Citizen United is one, the revolving door of public/private service, terms, a lot of that needs to be revisited.

[Trainwreck2100]

How you handle that though? Take Dan Patrick, the former politico turned armchair epidemiologist calling out Dr Fauci and a cadre of ignorants backing him up. (and you can have any disagreements with Dr Fauci, and point out mistakes he's made, but flat out saying he lacks authority to talk about the subject matter is ridiculous).

You know what the real problem is? We have little memory. You would think the internet would enable the exact opposite, and allow us to educate ourselves and a guy like Patrick to be shunned as an idiot in charge for the rest of whatever political career he has left.

Instead, smart people figured out how to cash out on the gullible idiots through JooTubes and Patreon. So there's the opportunists too. It just really has turned largely into an idiocracy, and guys like the POTUS has given that minority a megaphone.

It's just not clear to me what you do about that, other than make sure to tell people to show up and vote, turn the page, and leave it as another black mark in American history.
he was saying open "open up the country the young kids can function, and lock up the old people" (parphrasing)They did that, now he's mad all the young kids are getting sick

[spurraider21]

No. Anarchy is freedom. Freedom doesn't always imply positive outcomes, but it's defined as complete freedom for hierarchy,
mostly true, except for "anarcho-capitalism" which is apparently a thing

[ElNono]

he was saying open "open up the country the young kids can function, and lock up the old people" (parphrasing)They did that, now he's mad all the young kids are getting sick

It's worse. He didn't just ignore what the expert said, and fucked up. He actually questioned his credentials. A person that lacks any foundation to do that. It's really idiocy and ignorance to it's maximum expression.

Even more critical, you can check all the boxes that supposedly matter here: blood on his hands, irreparable damage, completely and absolutely wrong, etc... but somehow people apparently keep on voting for this guy. what gives?

[RandomGuy]

Okay, so Coronavirus has killed 130k people, and wingnuts on various forums and social media platforms keep insisting the media is "fear mongering" us so they can control us, drive up ratings, etc. They also keep saying, "Yeee haaaawwww, I'm less likely to die of the Covid than a car accident!" (not true). They'll also say that anyone fearing Covid (liberals) are pussies and need to toughen up and live life. Cool.

But when a story breaks about an illegal alien murdering someone, Conservatives believe that is just the start of Messicans and other browns flooding into their neighborhoods and raping and pillaging everything in sight. Or we can go back further and document their fear of various Islamic terrorist factions, them thinking ISIS or Al Qaeda will be soon flying planes into every skyscraper in the country if we don't "shock and awe" the Middle East back to the stone age and ban travel from the Middle East.

Facts are, you're much, much more likely to die of Covid than be killed by a Messican or Muslim, but conservatives fear the latter event much more.

Any theories on why that is? Seems to make no sense to me given the odds of each happening. Again, you're more likely to harmed or killed by the Coronavirus than an illegal alien or terrorist. Wonder why conservative don't call it fear mongering when the Fox Newses and Briebarts breathlessly report on instances of an illegal killing someone in a car accident or Muslim knife attack in the UK. Those events are exceedingly are.

They have actually studied this at the brain level, so there actually is a scientific answer to that.

Conservatives are much more fearful in general. Hitting their fear button works.

There is a good blog here that runs through a lot of the studies.

https://www.thescienceofpsychotherapy.com/conservative-brains-vs-liberal-brains/


“Neurocognitive Correlates of Conservatism and Liberalism” by Amodio, Jost, Master, and Yee, published in 2007.

[RandomGuy]

It's worse. He didn't just ignore what the expert said, and fucked up. He actually questioned his credentials. A person that lacks any foundation to do that. It's really idiocy and ignorance to it's maximum expression.

Even more critical, you can check all the boxes that supposedly matter here: blood on his hands, irreparable damage, completely and absolutely wrong, etc... but somehow people apparently keep on voting for this guy. what gives?

Pretty much. This fall will be very interesting to see enough people finally fed up with party of stupid. Texas is getting to be a battleground, and I think when it flips you will see a huge wake-up call for conservatives.

[RandomGuy]

The government should never restrict speech, but this goal can be achieved in a different way. Social media platforms just need to mercilessly crack down on "bullshit." I can hear Chris, et al caterwauling about "Big Brother" as I typed that, but they forget FREEDOM OF ASSEMBLY is also a feature of the first amendment, and a PRIVATE company has the right to police their platforms in who they allow to assemble.

A simple analogy is: If I had some conspiratard spouting dangerous nonsense in my house, I'd tell him to shut the fuck up or leave.

I'm okay with innocuous "conspiracy theories" being shared. Lizard people controlling the government, Aliens, flat earth, and what have you. But the buck stops when it comes to shit like this:

https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2020/06/fb-masks-post.png

They aren't innocuous though. Once you fall into the first one, you fall into others.

Believe it or not, science has something to say about that.

Mildly fun yootube that walks through it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z98U1nMFrJQ

Thing is once you start down the path, confirmation bias does most of the work. interesting thing about dopamine receptors in there as well.

[TheGreatYacht]

They aren't innocuous though. Once you fall into the first one, you fall into others.

Believe it or not, science has something to say about that.

Mildly fun yootube that walks through it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z98U1nMFrJQ

Thing is once you start down the path, confirmation bias does most of the work. interesting thing about dopamine receptors in there as well.

Nah. It's more about once you see the truth, you can never go back. You act as if their has never been conspiracies that turned out to be true. You act as if our government never lies and have their best interest at heart. You axt as if the media never lies and has integrity.

Don't forget that the word "conspiracy theory" was a term invented by the CIA to discredit anyone that exposes their criminal activity.

[ElNono]

Don't forget that the word "conspiracy theory" was a term invented by the CIA to discredit anyone that exposes their criminal activity.

:lmao:lmao:lmao

Not only is that a conspiracy theory in itself, it's false too.

The Oxford English Dictionary defines conspiracy theory as "the theory that an event or phenomenon occurs as a result of a conspiracy between interested parties; spec. a belief that some covert but influential agency (typically political in motivation and oppressive in intent) is responsible for an unexplained event". It cites a 1909 article in The American Historical Review as the earliest usage example, although it also appears in journals as early as April 1870. The word "conspiracy" derives from the Latin con- ("with, together") and spirare ("to breathe").

"Reviewed Work: The Repeal of the Missouri Compromise: Its Origin and Authorship by P. Orman Ray". The American Historical Review.
"The claim that [David R.] Atchison was the originator of the [Missouri Compromise] repeal may be termed a recrudescence of the conspiracy theory first asserted by Colonel John A. Parker of Virginia in 1880."

The CIA was created in 1947.

[TheGreatYacht]

:lmao:lmao:lmao

Not only is that a conspiracy theory in itself, it's false too.

The Oxford English Dictionary defines conspiracy theory as "the theory that an event or phenomenon occurs as a result of a conspiracy between interested parties; spec. a belief that some covert but influential agency (typically political in motivation and oppressive in intent) is responsible for an unexplained event". It cites a 1909 article in The American Historical Review as the earliest usage example, although it also appears in journals as early as April 1870. The word "conspiracy" derives from the Latin con- ("with, together") and spirare ("to breathe").

"Reviewed Work: The Repeal of the Missouri Compromise: Its Origin and Authorship by P. Orman Ray". The American Historical Review.
"The claim that [David R.] Atchison was the originator of the [Missouri Compromise] repeal may be termed a recrudescence of the conspiracy theory first asserted by Colonel John A. Parker of Virginia in 1880."

The CIA was created in 1947.

The CIA’s Invention of the “Conspiracy Theorist”: Smear Campaign to Discredit Dissenters

https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-cias-invention-of-the-conspiracy-theorist-smear-campaign-to-discredit-dissenters/5403876

https://i.ibb.co/vVWrQbP/FB-IMG-1594071059878.jpg

[Spurminator]

Gosh, who to believe, the Oxford Dictionary or GlobalResearch.ca?

[midnightpulp]

They have actually studied this at the brain level, so there actually is a scientific answer to that.

Conservatives are much more fearful in general. Hitting their fear button works.

There is a good blog here that runs through a lot of the studies.

https://www.thescienceofpsychotherapy.com/conservative-brains-vs-liberal-brains/

Yes, I'm familiar with these studies, and it makes sense that the conservative brain would be wired differently since they were reared in more insular and strict environments. The good news is the brain is remarkably plastic, even in older ages, and by exposing yourself to different experiences, you can very much rewire your brain into becoming "more liberal." Don't know how many anecdotes I've heard/read of people changing their political views after travelling abroad or when they return from college (and no, it's not because of "liberal indoctrination" as universities, but because you tend to meet people from different cultures).

What makes no sense, though, is that it seems the typical conservative fear response isn't being triggered by Covid. Same with school and mass shootings. Conservatives will downplay those as being exceedingly rare events, but believe a home invasion robbery will happen at any time, especially if they see the illegal immigration numbers ticking up. Looks like their fear response is highly linked to their social and political perspectives.

[RandomGuy]

Cuomo 30K+ deaths, gets a free pass and even a participation award from the left.

Abbott 2600 deaths, gets dragged through the streets and called everything but a white man by the left

It's not about lives.

muh Cuomo

[RandomGuy]

Yes, I'm familiar with these studies, and it makes sense that the conservative brain would be wired differently since they were reared in more insular and strict environments. The good news is the brain is remarkably plastic, even in older ages, and by exposing yourself to different experiences, you can very much rewire your brain into becoming "more liberal." Don't know how many anecdotes I've heard/read of people changing their political views after travelling abroad or when they return from college (and no, it's not because of "liberal indoctrination" as universities, but because you tend to meet people from different cultures).

What makes no sense, though, is that it seems the typical conservative fear response isn't being triggered by Covid. Same with school and mass shootings. Conservatives will downplay those as being exceedingly rare events, but believe a home invasion robbery will happen at any time, especially if they see the illegal immigration numbers ticking up. Looks like their fear response is highly linked to their social and political perspectives.

Tone at the top. They follow directives form authority, and you have Trump setting the tone.

That is the difference. They have placed their trust in a con man, who does not give a rats ass about them, and who would literally throw them to the wolves to save his own skin in a heartbeat.

His interest is in playing down the scope of the disaster so he is pushing any narrative that accomplishes that task.

[tholdren]

Well, if you want to get specific, I noticed right wingers couldn't bring themselves to say anything critical of President Trump while going out of their way to shame me for buying and wearing masks in general. One tried to shame me for posting a picture of what was later to be determined the wrong kind of mask unless part of that mask was covered in tape when that mask wasn't even purchased.

Bwahahahaaha ChumpDumper on that TimDunkem level.of insecure.

Lolol9lololololololookl

Tried to shame me. Lololoolololilokoolok


This is why I feel bad trolling ChumpDumper. Spurstalk isn't just the internet to him. Its actually a real meaningful space.for him.

Yikes

[ChumpDumper]

th:lolldren still trying

[clambake]

Bwahahahaaha ChumpDumper on that TimDunkem level.of insecure.

Lolol9lololololololookl

Tried to shame me. Lololoolololilokoolok


This is why I feel bad trolling ChumpDumper. Spurstalk isn't just the internet to him. Its actually a real meaningful space.for him.

Yikes

The fun part is chump is shit

You are cat litter

[ChumpDumper]

The fun part is chump is shit

You are cat litterth:lolldren says he jes' trollin' now

[tholdren]

Bwahahahaaha ChumpDumper on that TimDunkem level.of insecure.

Lolol9lololololololookl

Tried to shame me. Lololoolololilokoolok


This is why I feel bad trolling ChumpDumper. Spurstalk isn't just the internet to him. Its actually a real meaningful space.for him.

Yikes
Bwahahahaha ChumpDumper responded 2x already.


LolololI'll his safe space is spurstalk

[DMC]

muh Cuomo

That's it, sweep it under the rug. It's not about lives.

[TheGreatYacht]

They have actually studied this at the brain level, so there actually is a scientific answer to that.

Conservatives are much more fearful in general. Hitting their fear button works.

There is a good blog here that runs through a lot of the studies.

https://www.thescienceofpsychotherapy.com/conservative-brains-vs-liberal-brains/

I'm not a conservative or right-winger. The ones living in fear are you Chumpettes who are scared of a hoax virus and want government to protect your asses by forcing healthy people to wear muzzles :lol

[tholdren]

chumpdump got on spurstalk and admitted he let.someone shame him. Lolololo

Trying to one up TimDunkem for internet sympathy.

[ChumpDumper]

chumpdump got on spurstalk and admitted he let.someone shame him. Lolololo

Trying to one up TimDunkem for internet sympathy.I never said I was ashamed.

It's not like when you hid in your bunker for three months after being wrong.

That's being ashamed.

[tholdren]

I never said I was ashamed.

It's not like when you hid in your bunker for three months after being wrong.

That's being ashamed.

bwahahahahhahahHH spinning the story. BeahahahahahahhahahahahahhahaHhaha

.whoops

[ChumpDumper]

bwahahahahhahahHH spinning the story. BeahahahahahahhahahahahahhahaHhaha

.whoopslol meltdown

[tholdren]

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Well, if you want to get specific, I noticed right wingers couldn't bring themselves to say anything critical of President Trump while going out of their way to shame me for buying and wearing masks in general. One tried to shame me for posting a picture of what was later to be determined the wrong kind of mask unless part of that mask was covered in tape when that mask wasn't even purchased.

[ChumpDumper]

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Well, if you want to get specific, I noticed right wingers couldn't bring themselves to say anything critical of President Trump while going out of their way to shame me for buying and wearing masks in general. One tried to shame me for posting a picture of what was later to be determined the wrong kind of mask unless part of that mask was covered in tape when that mask wasn't even purchased.Yep, you just proved you lied again.

I also noticed you're afraid to show your math.

sad.

[ElNono]

The CIA’s Invention of the “Conspiracy Theorist”: Smear Campaign to Discredit Dissenters

https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-cias-invention-of-the-conspiracy-theorist-smear-campaign-to-discredit-dissenters/5403876

https://i.ibb.co/vVWrQbP/FB-IMG-1594071059878.jpg

^^ this is trying to take advantage of both your gullibility and ignorance. Now you're not ignorant on the subject anymore (you're welcome). I thought you were a rebel not a pawn, tbh

[RandomGuy]

th:lolldren still trying

This message is hidden because tholdren is on your ignore list.

Don't have to hit view post to guess that it is likely "LOLOLOLOLOLOL"

"I can't provide sources, show my math, or explain my reasoning, but man can I hit the "L" and the "O" key in rapid succession".

That is what he is good for. "L" and "O".

[TheGreatYacht]

^^ this is trying to take advantage of both your gullibility and ignorance. Now you're not ignorant on the subject anymore (you're welcome). I thought you were a rebel not a pawn, tbh


"I believe the official narrative and everything my government says is the truth and nothing but the truth :cry"

Fixed

[RandomGuy]

lol meltdown

Heh, I guess I can add "B" and "A" and "H" to his repetoire.

LOBAH

My new nickname for him. LOBAH

[DMC]

Heh, I guess I can add "B" and "A" and "H" to his repetoire.

LOBAH

My new nickname for him. LOBAH
:lol puts someone on ignore
:lol posts incessantly about them just the same, after advertising he put them on ignore.

[ElNono]

Fixed

Bro, if you're gonna quote me, quote me. You don't need to make up quotes. That's actually adds to your lack of credibility.

[ElNono]

Plus, TGY, what I said it's completely logical.

You claim to be a rebel, but when actually proven you're being played (and I'm talking about this particular assertion), you stick with being the puppet to the puppeteer... and then get so butthurt you make it personal.

So which is it? Not much of a free thinker there? What does JooTube says you have to think about this?

[ElNono]

double post

[pgardn]

I'm not a conservative or right-winger. The ones living in fear are you Chumpettes who are scared of a hoax virus and want government to protect your asses by forcing healthy people to wear muzzles :lol

A muzzle?

oh my god it’s so painful... fckn snowflake.

just wish we could muzzle all your YouTube loonies so your cousin doesn’t have to drive you to the insane asylum.

[RandomGuy]

Plus, TGY, what I said it's completely logical.

You claim to be a rebel, but when actually proven you're being played (and I'm talking about this particular assertion), you stick with being the puppet to the puppeteer... and then get so butthurt you make it personal.

So which is it? Not much of a free thinker there? What does JooTube says you have to think about this?

People double down when you show them to be wrong. Even when they know you have a point. It is just the way the human brain works. :/

[RandomGuy]

Okay, so Coronavirus has killed 130k people, and wingnuts on various forums and social media platforms keep insisting the media is "fear mongering" us so they can control us, drive up ratings, etc. They also keep saying, "Yeee haaaawwww, I'm less likely to die of the Covid than a car accident!" (not true). They'll also say that anyone fearing Covid (liberals) are pussies and need to toughen up and live life. Cool.

But when a story breaks about an illegal alien murdering someone, Conservatives believe that is just the start of Messicans and other browns flooding into their neighborhoods and raping and pillaging everything in sight. Or we can go back further and document their fear of various Islamic terrorist factions, them thinking ISIS or Al Qaeda will be soon flying planes into every skyscraper in the country if we don't "shock and awe" the Middle East back to the stone age and ban travel from the Middle East.

Facts are, you're much, much more likely to die of Covid than be killed by a Messican or Muslim, but conservatives fear the latter event much more.

Any theories on why that is? Seems to make no sense to me given the odds of each happening. Again, you're more likely to harmed or killed by the Coronavirus than an illegal alien or terrorist. Wonder why conservative don't call it fear mongering when the Fox Newses and Briebarts breathlessly report on instances of an illegal killing someone in a car accident or Muslim knife attack in the UK. Those events are exceedingly are.

Because racism sells to conservative audiences.

Further, Trump made it his mission to downplay the entire virus, and the easily manipulated cult followed suit, making the existence of hte virus itself policital.

The right has a huge truth decay problem, where they can't even agree on reality.

[RandomGuy]

What stood out to me is who the snowflakes really are, tbh... amazing tantrums only because you've been asked to wear a mask while in public and near other people...

"IT'S JUST LIKE THE HOLOCAUST!"

[RandomGuy]

:lol Snowflake can't respect the voters.
:lol Cries about the team construct while bawling that his team lost.

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

https://www.tampabay.com/resizer//sPy9HwnygfNva9A6P4teZhLm0RQ=/1140x641/smart/s3.amazonaws.com/arc-wordpress-client-uploads/tbt/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/13091108/10-incredibly-important-photos-of-joe-biden-eating-ice-cream.jpg

[Thread]

"IT'S JUST LIKE THE HOLOCAUST!"

She was just trying to get your goat, RG.

[Thread]

Because racism sells to conservative audiences.

Further, Trump made it his mission to downplay the entire virus, and the easily manipulated cult followed suit, making the existence of hte virus itself policital.

The right has a huge truth decay problem, where they can't even agree on reality.

So far today mother fucker Biden is responsible for the death of 615 Americans due to (19), RG.