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ChumpDumper
07-15-2003, 01:44 AM
link (registration required) (http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/clippers/la-sp-clippers15jul15a,1,7482965.story?coll=la-headlines-sports-nba-clippe)
Clippers Face Tough Choices
Team could lose as many as four key players and officials say they will take their time to match contract offers.

By Mark Heisler, Times Staff Writer


Team or buffet line?

The Clippers' day of reckoning is approaching as free agents Michael Olowokandi and Andre Miller negotiate with Denver, Corey Maggette talks to Utah and teams line up to extend offer sheets to Elton Brand if he's still on the market when the free-agent signing period opens Wednesday.







The Clippers, notorious for letting players go when prices were a lot lower, have never been under such siege, with all but one of last season's starting five about to get $40 million-plus offers.

However, in a break with their tradition, they're now out-bidding the field for Brand. Clipper vice president Andy Roeser confirmed Monday they raised their offer to Brand over the weekend from $65 million over five seasons to $78 million over six, moving beyond the $74 million other teams have as their limit.

Brand's suitors include Utah, which has to replace Karl Malone; San Antonio, which has to replace David Robinson; and Miami, which has to replace Alonzo Mourning.

The Spurs considered offering a front-loaded $74 million deal, with $22 million payable immediately. They may, instead, pull out of the bidding, even though Brand has become their No. 1 prospect.

San Antonio has already lost out on Jason Kidd, P.J. Brown and Malone, and can't afford to spend 15 days wrangling with the Clippers, who have the right to match any offer and are promising everyone they'll do it.

Instead, the Spurs may go to their fall-back position, trying to sign Minnesota's Rasho Nesterovic.

Indeed, the Clippers understand they can discourage bidders by tying them up for the entire 15 days and are promising to use each and every day.

"Let me impress one thing upon you," Clipper spokesman Joe Safety said Monday. "We will use the whole runway."

Jazz officials were also told the Clippers would probably match on Brand but last week were still planning to extend an offer. According to a source, Jazz General Manager Kevin O'Connor said, "We've got to do what we've got to do."

Meanwhile, Brand's agent, David Falk, is traveling the country, seeking more options for his client. Said a source: "David's been writing offer sheets for weeks."

However, Clipper officials aren't sure how far owner Donald T. Sterling, whose biggest previous commitment was Eric Piatkowski's five-year $15 million deal, will let them go to keep their other players.

"Depends on the price," a team official said last week.

Olowokandi is unrestricted and the Clippers have no right to match. Sterling has little regard for Olowokandi, who has been considered gone by team officials for months.

But new Coach Mike Dunleavy, hired last week, made an eleventh-hour appeal to keep him. Olowokandi's agent, Billl Duffy, is expected to meet today with Clipper officials.

If it doesn't work out here, Olowokandi has other opportunities. He was to meet Monday night with Denver owner Stan Kroenke at the Summer Pro League in Long Beach, presumably to receive an offer. He's also on the list in Miami and Orlando, to name two others.

Miller and Maggette, both restricted, were both negotiating with Denver and Utah. In a surprise, Miller wound up as the Nuggets' choice, instead of going back to Salt Lake City where he played in college at the University of Utah. The Jazz then upped their offer to Maggette and stole him.

Miller's offer is reportedly $50 million over six seasons, Maggette's $45 million over six. Their agents have said they'll accept the offer sheets.

Of the two, the Clippers are more inclined to match on Maggette, but as a team official noted, "I've heard he might get a $7 million offer and that's a lot of money."

There is less chance the Clippers will match on Miller, who was a disappointment in his only season here. The Clippers still have cheap help at point guard with Marko Jaric under contract for two more seasons at $1.9 million and $2.1 million and Keyon Dooling locked up by the rookie cap for $2.3 million this season, plus the right to match any offer next summer.

The Clippers also have Lamar Odom, a restricted free agent, and Piatkowski and Sean Rooks, both unrestricted, so what happens starting Wednesday will determine their future.

"The free agent period begins Wednesday and then we'll see what happens," Roeser said. "We've said all along, we like our players and we expect to re-sign our players."

Actually, they've said it annually but never with as many of them to lose.

Marcus Bryant
07-15-2003, 01:54 AM
However, in a break with their tradition, they're now out-bidding the field for Brand. Clipper vice president Andy Roeser confirmed Monday they raised their offer to Brand over the weekend from $65 million over five seasons to $78 million over six, moving beyond the $74 million other teams have as their limit.

Brand's suitors include Utah, which has to replace Karl Malone; San Antonio, which has to replace David Robinson; and Miami, which has to replace Alonzo Mourning.

The Spurs considered offering a front-loaded $74 million deal, with $22 million payable immediately. They may, instead, pull out of the bidding, even though Brand has become their No. 1 prospect.

San Antonio has already lost out on Jason Kidd, P.J. Brown and Malone, and can't afford to spend 15 days wrangling with the Clippers, who have the right to match any offer and are promising everyone they'll do it.

Instead, the Spurs may go to their fall-back position, trying to sign Minnesota's Rasho Nesterovic.



**** Rasho. Call Sterling's bluff.



However, Clipper officials aren't sure how far owner Donald T. Sterling, whose biggest previous commitment was Eric Piatkowski's five-year $15 million deal, will let them go to keep their other players.


Indeed.

Temple Of The Dog
07-15-2003, 01:55 AM
well this means a sign and trade with them for someone that sterling really wants, or no brand? i personally think its been taken out of sterling's hands and they have the greenlight from him to basically counter offer anything for brand at this point... (other than a trade)

if this report about their offer is true... then by tomorrow afternoon we'll either have rasho in uniform (so to speak) or the spurs front office will have made up its mind to go after brand through trades. if we get rasho...obviously no brand.

blackbucket
07-15-2003, 01:59 AM
Brand or no dice.

One year deals and wait until next year for Brand. Don't settle for garbage that you can't throw out for years.

Marcus Bryant
07-15-2003, 02:07 AM
Someone leaked the terms of that potential offer to Brand from the Spurs to send a message to Sterling. $22 million? He's gonna sh*t a brick.

Temple Of The Dog
07-15-2003, 02:12 AM
so basically admit that this offseason was a bust... take the egg in the face that kidd, pj and zo left us with... all but willingly say that you're tanking the season to get brand next year and that you're willing to waste a "repeat chance" in tim duncans career?

i think the front office would take rasho than do all that... or admit to it anyway. maybe they lowballed rasho and they'll say they went after everyone they could...blah blah blah... but they'd also have to let go of sjax... and also try to convince a semi decent or even bad backup point guard to play for a one year deal... i don't know if they'd do that (or even if they could the way this offseason has been going)

2pac
07-15-2003, 02:13 AM
Forgive me for being stupid, but I am an Ag major

With the CBA - how do we give him $22million upfront?

Temple Of The Dog
07-15-2003, 02:25 AM
wait a second... if they already up'ed their offer to 4 more million than we can offer... doesn't that mean that they can use that as their counter-offer if we do try to sign him?

i mean, its been said that they have to match... but if their offer is 4 million more, doesn't that automatically trump ours? (basically forcing us out of any bid) in other words: they'll match anything - even a front loaded contract which would end up being less in the long run

Marcus Bryant
07-15-2003, 02:32 AM
members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#59 (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#59)

59. How about signing bonuses? Are they allowed? How do they count against the cap?

Teams are allowed to offer the players they sign a bonus worth as much as 25% of the total compensation, and may do so whether or not the team is over the cap.

If a player has a signing bonus, that bonus is averaged among the guaranteed years of the contract and added to the team salary during those years. If a player has an opt-out clause, the bonus is allocated only to the years prior to the opt-out date. Payments in excess of $350,000 that are made to non-NBA teams or federations to release rights to a player are treated like signing bonuses under this rule. Option buy-out amounts are also treated like signing bonuses.

SpursWoman
07-15-2003, 02:42 AM
So wouldn't the Clippers have to match or beat the offer term for term? Like performance incentives, player options....etc? Any potential signing bonuses? Not just dollar value?

Marcus Bryant
07-15-2003, 02:45 AM
members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#34 (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#34)



When another team wants to sign a restricted free agent, it signs the player to an offer sheet, the principal terms of which the original team is given 15 days to match. The offer sheet must be for at least three seasons. The principal terms of the offer sheet cannot include non-cash forms of compensation. For example, it doesn't work to offer Denver's free agent a house on the beach within 15 minutes of the arena, knowing that it's impossible for Denver to match those terms. If the player's original team exercises its right of first refusal by matching the principal terms of the offer sheet, the player is then under contract to his original team and is no longer a free agent. If the player's original team does not exercise its right of first refusal within 15 days, the offer sheet becomes an official contract with the new team, and the player is no longer a free agent.

I would imagine that a signing bonus would be a part of the "principal terms" of the Spurs' offer sheet.

Marcus Bryant
07-15-2003, 02:49 AM
A quick question...could the Spurs sign Brand to an offer sheet that contains a 7 year deal since the offer sheet must contain terms that the player's current team can match? Just a thought but that might explain the $22 mil figure (that is the $22 mil = 25% of a 7 year max deal).

Marcus Bryant
07-15-2003, 03:04 AM
One thing's for certain, the Clippers still are not offering Brand the maximum deal they can:


However, in a break with their tradition, they're now out-bidding the field for Brand. Clipper vice president Andy Roeser confirmed Monday they raised their offer to Brand over the weekend from $65 million over five seasons to $78 million over six, moving beyond the $74 million other teams have as their limit.

Aggie Hoopsfan
07-15-2003, 03:13 AM
Some other things come in to play here with the Clips offer:

Namely a 9.3% state income tax, so knock 8 million off of the Clips 78 million deal (it's now less than SA's).



I'm gonna call this offer by LA for what it is -

A desperate attempt to get SA to say forget it. I think there's no way in hell they match the 22 mil up front, but they are trying to bluff us by saying 1) they want to pay more (which when the accountants break it down will be false) and 2) the little smug comment that "we'll take all 15 days, you can bank on it" to try and scare us into going after our alternatives.

Time to put our balls on the table and call Sterling's ass on this one.

AHF

Marcus Bryant
07-15-2003, 03:14 AM
Assuming a $42.5 million cap:

On a 6 year deal the maximum the Clippers can offer Brand is $83.7 million.

On a 7 year deal the maximum the Clippers can offer is $102.3 million.

For the Spurs, on a 6 year deal the maximum they can offer is...$79.7 million.

25% of the maximum the Spurs can offer is $19.9 million. So that's close to the $22 million that is stated in the article.

MannyIsGod
07-15-2003, 03:22 AM
AHF, I think you're on to something.

Why all the bluster?

I mean, if they really want to keep him, it's almost better if we sign him to an offer sheet because of the fact that they won't have to pay as much.

Sounds to me like a hand in Texas Hold'em where my oppent is trying to bet his way out of a bluff. **** that, lets see what sterling is holding, because I have Aces over Kings and I bet that mofo doesn't even have a pair.

Marcus Bryant
07-15-2003, 03:28 AM
If they really wanted him they would have offered him the max by now. Their offer now is still well below the 7 year $102 mil deal that they could theoretically offer Brand. Even for 6 years it is not the maximum.

Their "raising the stakes" does seem for show. It's like, 'look, we did all we could do but we can't afford the terms he got from SA.'

Aggie Hoopsfan
07-15-2003, 03:28 AM
Well Marcus,

[contingent on the cap]

For one thing that says that the article is not even right - SA would have offered the max (79 mil, not 74).

Further, it says LA still isn't maxing him out.


Also, I don't think we necessarily offered the max 25% bonus, more like that 22 million is the combination of first year salary (~10.6 mil) and signing bonus (in your case of the cap that would be a roughly 14.5% signing bonus).

Remember that bonus is averaged out over the length of the contract and counts against our cap, that 19.9 million bonus would be one hell of a cap hit.

AHF

Marcus Bryant
07-15-2003, 03:31 AM
AHF, there isn't a difference in the cap hit. Yes, the bonus is averaged out across the life of the contract but the total amount guaranteed to him over the life of the contract cannot exceed the maximum salary for him over that time. So while the bonus is averaged out over the contract, the 'base salary' is lower than max.

No cap worries.

T Park Num 9
07-15-2003, 03:34 AM
Loose out on brand and Rasho

who the hell is left??

No one.


They better get either one or they are screwed for the up coming season.

Aggie Hoopsfan
07-15-2003, 03:36 AM
Thanks Marcus, I was a little hazy on that aspect about the signing bonus.

AHF

Marcus Bryant
07-15-2003, 03:39 AM
Another thought is that this could push him into a sign and trade with SA. Spurs send him a pick and $ or something just to get it overwith now and not have to spend 15 days in limbo. It would be like...'this is what we are going to sign Brand to, now you can get something back from us if you do the deal now or....'

grjr
07-15-2003, 03:42 AM
I don't think the $22 million is paid all at once. It would be paid out over the first year.

jr

Marcus Bryant
07-15-2003, 03:44 AM
grjr, even if, that means that Brand would roughly have a payment of $30 million coming to him (signing bonus + 1st year salary) in that year. In addition Sterling would still have to shell out $20 million for other salaries. So he'd be looking at $50 million in actual cash salary payments in that year.

I doubt he goes for that.

Marcus Bryant
07-15-2003, 03:48 AM
Well, it looks like Ghost was right. The Spurs never do anything.

T Park Num 9
07-15-2003, 03:50 AM
NBA.comTV

right now is doing a season inside the Clippers
Elton Brand's first season

Coming back home and stuff.

Almost like a little background deal on him, And from what I see Im impressed.

Went back to his hometown for Elton brand day.

Very grounded and down to earth individual.

Would fit in PERFECT with the grounded family Spurs.

ITs too bad that hes restricted.

If he was unrestricted I would say its garunteed were getting him, Im afraid though that Sterling will match.

Marcus Bryant
07-15-2003, 03:52 AM
Do you think Sterling will give him $30 million in cold hard cash next season, with $22 million of that payable now? I don't see it.

T Park Num 9
07-15-2003, 04:10 AM
We didnt think Jermaine Oneal would stiff the Spurs of a visit.


Well see what he does.

Hopefully Sterling has a heart attack and Baylor says lets just get the 15 days over with and decline.

o0drpill0o
07-15-2003, 04:43 AM
This is pretty damn interesting. If indeed the Spurs are looking to make that kind of offer, they are some smart muthafuckas. That is exactly the kind of deal that would cause Sterling to shit a brick. They have put a lot of thought into this obviously. If we could get Brand in a s&t that would clearly be the best; picks and cash are all Sterling should ever get though.

My only question is this: if Rasho is supposed to make a decision tomorrow, then if the Spurs did make him an offer, this Elton Brand possibility is history, no? I guess conceivably they could sign both of them, if Rasho's contract were the right size. It would be weird, signing Rasho and Brand in the same offseason, but having Nesterovic on the roster is NO WAY reason to not look at Brand, is it? So in my mind, Pop is ready to take both players, if Rasho wants to come, and if he can pry Brand away from Sterling. So we won't get a perimeter scorer if this plan pans out, but we'll have Elton Brand playing next to Tim Duncan for the next six years.

Not bad.

Marcus Bryant
07-15-2003, 04:55 AM
Yeah it's hard to get a good feel for how this will play out. Agreeing to a 6 year deal with Nesterovic would seem like a rather excessive price to pay for 'insurance' should the Spurs not be able to get Brand. I suppose they could try to get creative in how they use Nesterovic should they land both him and Brand. I'm sure we would see a trade of one of the bench bigs in the not too distant future. Obviously you don't pass on Brand just because you already have Nesterovic. The starting salaries I've seen for offers to Nesterovic would still leave the Spurs with enough cap room to make a max offer to Brand. If not Brand then the Spurs need to look at Odom.

T Park Num 9
07-15-2003, 04:56 AM
and have Rasho coming off the bench to give duncan a breather.

Thats a hell of a lineup


Jack
Brand
Duncan
Manu
Parker

Nesterovic
Kerr
Rose
Willis
Claxton
Leonard
Brown.


That right there folks is the team to win rings for the next 5 years.

KoriEllis
07-15-2003, 05:04 AM
TPark, did you get rid of Bowen? :)

T Park Num 9
07-15-2003, 05:07 AM
My bad Bruce.

No, heavens knows I love him.


If hes still there at training camp,

Im ordering one of his jerseys, the big FA signing, and hopefully Speedy Claxton's.


My comp is dying to customize a Brand or Nesterovic or olowakandi jersey!

o0drpill0o
07-15-2003, 05:08 AM
That right there folks is the team to win rings for the next 5 years.

Damn right it is. The Lakers would be wetting their beds thinking about that squad next May.



If not Brand then the Spurs need to look at Odom.

I imagine that is definitely the plan, MB. My question is, will Odom still be around if Sterling dicks around for two weeks? That's a long time, and Miami has money and beaches (and beeches). Losing out on Odom is no reason not to do this plan though, as chances are Odom will not want to come here anyway.

spurster
07-15-2003, 10:08 AM
If the Spurs are lucky to pick up both Rasho and Brand, it is hard to see any time for Malik. 36 for TD, 30 for Rasho, and 30 for Brand would take up all the bigman time.

NCaliSpurs
07-15-2003, 11:14 AM
He is fat and happy with his contract. This is his team and he wants to win. If he is winning then I don't see the problem.

Ghost Writer
07-15-2003, 11:21 AM
"The Spurs considered offering a front-loaded $74 million deal, with $22 million payable immediately. They may, instead, pull out of the bidding, even though Brand has become their No. 1 prospect.

San Antonio has already lost out on Jason Kidd, P.J. Brown and Malone, and can't afford to spend 15 days wrangling with the Clippers, who have the right to match any offer and are promising everyone they'll do it.

Instead, the Spurs may go to their fall-back position, trying to sign Minnesota's Rasho Nesterovic."
If things turn out this way, remember this passage over the next 5 years as to why the Spurs went from a title team to an also-ran.

We lacked the b@lls to call Sterling's bluff.




:cooldevil

MannyIsGod
07-15-2003, 11:24 AM
Thats ok because with your plan ghost we could have gone from an also ran to a lotto team in that same time frame.

Ghost Writer
07-15-2003, 11:32 AM
Emmy, we'd have a better chance of getting a star to SA as a lotto team.

If not for the lucky bounce of a couple ping-pong balls, we never get the superstars of Robinson and Duncan and are title-less today.

The front office has not brought in a star other than the draft in 30 years.

Next.





:cooldevil

picnroll
07-15-2003, 11:37 AM
My question is, will Odom still be around if Sterling dicks around for two weeks?
Some articles indicate Odom is in no rush to make a decision. He wants to see what the Clippers do in terms of retaining talent so there's a good chance he'll wait out the 15 day period before he either accepts an offer from another club or signs a long term or one year deal with the Clips. In that case SA could make an offer to Brand and if Sterling matches turn around and make a sweet offer to Odom and see if Sterling would bite the bullet again.

How much talent would Sterling have to bring back to make Odo happy? The more he brings back, the bigger the payroll, and the less happy he'd be to offer Odom big bucks. So eithr way, bringing back talent may lessen an offer to Odom and not bringing back talent may get Odom to accept a poison pill contract like Brand's. A Catch 22.

Ghost Writer
07-15-2003, 11:40 AM
Um, Sterling doesn't have to do a d@mn thing but match any offer for Odom, which he says he is prepared to do.


:cooldevil

picnroll
07-15-2003, 11:45 AM
The contract offer scenario has changed then? :wtf

MannyIsGod
07-15-2003, 11:54 AM
lmao ghost.

Pop is the luckiest GM ever, no doubt.

Thank god for the lotto picks of Tony Parker and Manu Ginobilli.

(no i am not calling them stars)

Right now I hate the term star.

I just want to win.

My Spurs are going to be doing alot of that for a long time.

Go ahead, keep bitching, I'm done trying to reason with you.

ducks
07-15-2003, 11:55 AM
could the spurs have leaked this

so they could just trade picks and not have to have a front load deal

Ghost Writer
07-15-2003, 12:02 PM
Manny, please tell me where the Spurs are without the lottery.

This team can not bring in star talent without the draft.

That much is apparent when we clear cap space for two years, win a title in spite of that, have the league MVP on our team, have no state income tax and a new practice facility... and we still can't lure a star to the team.


Pitiful.


:cooldevil

KoriEllis
07-15-2003, 12:11 PM
If Rasho has indeed decided to sign in SA, this makes things very interesting.

Yesterday the Spurs had an offer out to Rasho AND a very interesting offer out to Brand. I think that if they have a big secured in Rasho, they should keep pursuing Brand heavily.

If Brand signs their offer sheet and Sterling still decides to match all the things in the Spurs' offer, then at least they tried and they will have a shot at Odom. Sterling isn't going to sign everyone.

The Spurs have nothing to lose by going for it and waiting the 15-days. There's not much else out there that they want to sign.

Ghost Writer
07-15-2003, 12:15 PM
You think the Spurs will have enough clout to sign Rasho and Brand?

I think it's one or the other.


Also, I believe Sterling will re-sign Brand and Odom, because Miller and Maggette are gonezo.

It doesn't look good for us.


:cooldevil

SpursFanInAustin
07-15-2003, 12:16 PM
Then by God, Go for Brand! I'm sure signing Nesterovic is going to be insurance just in case the Clipps match. The Spurs dont want to be left without a big man, and having just Tim, Malik, and Kevin upfront to battle Shaq.

MannyIsGod
07-15-2003, 12:18 PM
16 mil cap room
-6 rasho contract

10 mil left. isn't that what brands max is?

SpursFanInAustin
07-15-2003, 12:23 PM
Hey Marcus,

If the Spurs don't go after Brand, this will be just like how Red McCombs and Bob Bass were afraid to trade for Barkley for Cummings and Anderson in the summer of 92.

scott
07-15-2003, 12:32 PM
You think the Spurs will have enough clout to sign Rasho and Brand?

Assuming a cap of $42.5 million, the answer is yes.

Ghost Writer
07-15-2003, 12:33 PM
I can read the numbers being thrown around, Emmy. I just don't think the Spurs will sign Nesterovic and then go after Brand, too.

I bet they puss out and just settle on Nesterovic, which would be a clossal mistake.

Of course for a goof like you who thought all this cap clearing was just supposed to bring in a decent free agent or two, you're probably thrilled at the prospect of Nesterovic rather than going after Brand.


:cooldevil

picnroll
07-15-2003, 12:35 PM
If they have the money and Brand goes for it then we have do it. Not much to lose. Odom will likely wait. Question is will he wait for us or Miami though? Reilly is supposed to lust for Odom and Odom's a nightlife kind of guy. Who'll have more money? Miami I think.

gospurs21
07-15-2003, 01:02 PM
more ifs and buts from Ghost. Let it go, the past cannot be changed, no matter how you want to spin it. Look to the future, it is just as bright.

question: Is the glass half empty or half full?

GW: what glass, if it haddened rained 5 years ago there would be no water in the GD glass. If the glass maker didn't ship the glass to the store and someone didn't buy the glass there would be no water in it....

I could go on but I think everyone gets the picture. How can anyone be so angry after a championship but I guess GW is just that way. GW, all your anger is just a waste of energy.

Go after Brand AND Rasho

Go Spurs...

timvp
07-15-2003, 02:09 PM
I bet they puss out and just settle on Nesterovic

Why would they do that? What are they going to do with the extra $10M+?

Pop specifically got Rasho to sign for less for a reason.

--Kori

Marcus Bryant
07-15-2003, 02:13 PM
What I find curious is that there are reports of the Spurs offering a $22 million signing bonus to Brand and Ghost thinks that is a "puss out." WTF?

Ghost Writer
07-15-2003, 02:14 PM
I hope you're right. There certainly seems to be enough money left over to entice Brand or at least Odom.


:cooldevil

Aggie Hoopsfan
07-15-2003, 02:16 PM
Give it a rest Ghost, they wouldn't have dicked around with all the clauses for Brand's deal if they weren't serious on tendering him an offer.

I look at it as more like whereas the LA Times was talking about how we'd back out because we needed to find a replacement for DRob, now that we have "insurance" in Rasho, let's play some Texas Hold 'Em and call Sterling's bluff.

If he matches, turn around and offer Odom, and let's see how far he's willing to go.

IMO the Spurs have all the leverage, we are more attractive, we are willing to shell out a truly max deal, and we can afford to wait now we have Rasho in our back pocket.

AHF

T Park Num 9
07-15-2003, 02:19 PM
Rash+Brand
Rasho+ Odom
Rasho + Arenas
Rasho + any great wing or post up player = VERY successfull summer.

MannyIsGod
07-15-2003, 02:24 PM
Even if we do wait the 15 day period at this point, we have our replacement for drob, and if sterling matches at that point, we have the opportunity to trade the capspace away.

Options galore and they are playing their cards just right.

:flipoff Ghost

Ghost Writer
07-15-2003, 02:24 PM
Slow your role, Aggie. Don't come in here trying to tell me about strategy that I myself argued for last week at this time.

I hope the Spurs won't stop here. They shouldn't. Convincing Brand to sign an offer sheet is the hard part. Offering the deal is the logical thing to do.


:cooldevil

Marcus Bryant
07-15-2003, 02:27 PM
So the Spurs ensure they get a decent role player to start and they can still make a run at Brand or Odom.

There are worse things.

KoriEllis
07-15-2003, 02:28 PM
Ghost, they had an offer on the table with Brand yesterday. I don't think they are going to back off just because they got Rasho. I think they'll push harder now. Nothing to lose, everything to gain.

o0drpill0o
07-15-2003, 02:34 PM
Why not offer the front loaded deal, then give Sterling his options:

1. Match the front loaded offer and watch your books get seriously f'd up this year.

2. Don't match and let Brand walk for nothing.

3. Watch Brand sign the one year sheet and then walk away for nothing or for whatever you can get in the regular season for him.

4. Agree to a sign and trade with us right now, wherein we will give you Speedy Claxton (if Clax agrees), the rights to Scola (don't need him anymore, too much front court depth already), draft picks, and cash (if this is possible).

That looks like a deal Sterling would be willing to take. He gets a good starting quality point guard at a decent rate, the rights to a potentially very good Argentinian power forward, those draft picks he loves so well, and most importantly he doesn't have to pay Brand 20 million this year.

This is the Spurs' last chance IMO. Odom is unlikely to come here. Brand wants to play here; I recall a while back he said he wants to play alongside a dominant big man and the Clippers will not even have anything close to that if Kandi leaves. I think if Sterling does not agree to the sign and trade option, and doesn't resign Kandi, Brand will walk sext summer. I think Sterling knows it too. The increased offer he put out there is just a feeble attempt to scare the Spurs away. Pop is too smart to fall for it.

Marcus Bryant
07-15-2003, 02:36 PM
If the Clippers matched an offer sheet with a signing bonus of $22 million then Sterling would have to come up with actual cash money of $50 million next year! No way he does that.

o0drpill0o
07-15-2003, 02:39 PM
How obscenely rich is Sterling? Is he Mark Cuban rich or Peter Holt rich?

Ghost Writer
07-15-2003, 02:41 PM
Seriously, I am sorry for spiralling into negativity, folks. Marcus Bryant brings out the worst in me! :lol

But I am still skeptical that Faulk/Brand will sign the Spurs offer sheet.

We need a lot of things to go right. We need:

• The Spurs to continue to offer that creative contract to Brand
• Brand to sign that offer sheet
• Sterling not to match


With Maggette, Miller and Olowokandi leaving, who else will Sterling sign to make minimum payroll? Would Odom be enough?

I'm concerned.


P.S.

Nesterovic does indeed take the pressure off of maintaining our championship rotation, but we'll need Brand or Odom to keep up with the Lakers now.


:cooldevil

Marcus Bryant
07-15-2003, 02:45 PM
drpill,

Sterling has money but has an aversion to blowing it on his basketball team. I'm sure if the Clippers front office comes to him and tells him that he has to match a $79 million offer to Brand and that he has to come up with $30 million of that in the first year he will cut the cord.

o0drpill0o
07-15-2003, 02:46 PM
Well, what do we have to lose, Ghost? If the Clippers match this crazy Brand deal, it would at least make it more likely that Sterling would be willing to let Odom go. He might end up in Miami, but that could happen anyway. At least in Brand we are going after a charcter guy who wants to be here. You want a superstar, I think this is our only real shot. Can't accuse Pop of not trying...

o0drpill0o
07-15-2003, 02:49 PM
I'm sure if the Clippers front office comes to him and tells him that he has to match a $79 million offer to Brand and that he has to come up with $30 million of that in the first year he will cut the cord.


I totally agree MB. Especially if he wants to also retain Odom, who will command big dollars. This is getting me pretty excited. I never in my wildest dreams imagined we might be adding Brand this summer. WAY better than Kidd IMO. But we'll see, as nothing is set in stone yet.

T Park Num 9
07-15-2003, 02:49 PM
Weirder things have happened Marcus.

Well see.

I think Brand wants out, but Im afraid of Sterling sucking it up and signing it.

Ghost Writer
07-15-2003, 02:53 PM
You have to convince Brand to accept our offer first.


:cooldevil

T Park Num 9
07-15-2003, 02:55 PM
Ghost,


U dont think the Spurs might have worked with Falk on this contract first maybe do ya???

nahhhh, pop isnt smart enough for that....:rolleyes

CosmicCowboyXXX
07-15-2003, 02:56 PM
Sterling has money but has an aversion to blowing it on his basketball team. I'm sure if the Clippers front office comes to him and tells him that he has to match a $79 million offer to Brand and that he has to come up with $30 million of that in the first year he will cut the cord.

don't be so sure...

the Clips franchise is profitable and has steady and predictable revenue.

the front loaded deal just means he pays less later.

with interest rates at historic lows Sterling could finance that upfront kicker with a phone call.

TwoHandJam
07-15-2003, 02:57 PM
Sterling would be a fool to sign it if Brand really doesn't want to play for him. It really all comes down to how badly Brand wants to leave. No use signing a guy to a long term deal and forcing him to stay when he's unhappy. Bad situation for both parties.

Aggie Hoopsfan
07-15-2003, 02:57 PM
Good point Ghost.

I'm sure Falk was working with RC to come up with a deal like that with all those clauses just for shits and giggles.

:rolleyes

AHF

Nikos
07-15-2003, 02:59 PM
I am a little skeptical as well that Sterling won't match the offer.

That would likely leave the Clippers with a

Jaric Q Odom Wilcox Kaman SL next season?

Can you really see the Clipps letting 4 quality young players go just like that?

Brand and Odom could be their NEW CORE -- without Brand Clippers are one of the worse teams -- with him/Odom they have a shot at fighting for the 8th seed.

Marcus Bryant
07-15-2003, 03:00 PM
Maybe CC. But when has Sterling ever committed $80 million to one player? Sterling is notorious for keeping his operating costs low. Suddenly he changes that philosophy? He's losing Miller and if the reports of Utah's offer to Maggette are correct he will lose him too. Odom seems destined to leave at the latest by next summer. What's the point in retaining Brand? How much better is that Clipper team really going to be? Why not commit to small rookie deals and keep more of those lottery picks rolling in?

Ghost Writer
07-15-2003, 03:04 PM
Har-de-har-har.

If you guys think it's going to be a cinch to offer a contract, get Brand to accept and Sterling not to match, you're a lot more confident than I am.

I hope it all comes together that easily.

Nesterovic and Brand would be more than I could've ever imagined for this summer and would certainly make the Holt-ing Pattern a success.

All respect due.


:cooldevil

CosmicCowboyXXX
07-15-2003, 03:07 PM
someone is gonna have to get paid for Sterling to get to the league minimum payroll. He would be nuts to let Brand walk this year. Brand has always been a professional...there is no reason to expect his performance to suffer because he is "unhappy"...

Marcus Bryant
07-15-2003, 03:08 PM
CC, does Sterling take on a $80 million commitment and $30 mil this year just to "make payroll"? I don't see that.

o0drpill0o
07-15-2003, 03:12 PM
Yeah, he can always let Brand walk and sign Arenas or something, can't he? There are other ways for Sterling to fill his roster, and if Brand is an unattractive option from a business standpoint Sterling will let him walk.

Aggie Hoopsfan
07-15-2003, 03:14 PM
Sterling needs to make payroll, but taking on that deal for Brand meets it and goes over it by about 20 million.

Sounds kinda steep for Sterling. Look folks, it's not like there's not guys like Piatkowski out there looking for money.

He can easily reach his 30 million payroll without mortgaging 80 million for Elton.

AHF

o0drpill0o
07-15-2003, 03:16 PM
See, the difference is, the Clippers are a business. The Spurs are a basketball team. We will lose some money if necessary to get the team we want. DS will not.

Man in Black1
07-15-2003, 06:41 PM
:brotha

Can you really see the Clipps letting 4 quality young players go just like that?

Back in 1992, the Donald had Larry Brown as Coach, the Clippers were actually beating the Lakers and making the playoffs. They had a core of Danny Manning, Charles Smith(Yes that Charles Smith-Before Bad Knees), Ken Norman, & Ron Harper. Sterling broke that core up because he didn't feel like paying them more EVEN THOUGH he had all of the above. His cheapness made him lose all that he had except for the Clippers. He is after all, the Donald.

:drunk

Marcus Bryant
07-15-2003, 06:45 PM
Someone please explain to me why Donald Sterling would commit to paying US$50 million in cold hard cash salaries next year just so that he can "make the minimum payroll."

Also, explain to me why he would agree to a $80 mil+ commitment to do that.

Come on let's put our thinking caps on.

Ghost Writer
07-15-2003, 06:53 PM
Based on past history, you have little reason to believe he would, Mark.

But now he has a player worth maxing and building around.

And he insists he will match anything and everything for Brand.

I think the Spurs startegy should be to offer Brand a huge deal and if Sterling matches it, make it so financially restricting that he can't help but to let Odom come to us.

Turn the tables, so to speak.


:cooldevil

T Park Num 9
07-15-2003, 07:00 PM
Sounds good to me Ghost...

Hopefully we get either one.

Ed Helicopter Jones
07-15-2003, 07:04 PM
I like the idea of putting big offers on the table for two of Sterling's boys, forcing him to let Odom or Brand walk.

But. . .what if Sterling said "screw 'em both" and let them both go? Are the Spurs then committed to sign both of them?

Admiral
07-15-2003, 07:08 PM
Good point, Chopper.

Hopefully, we can just offer Brand a max deal with a lot of front-loading and incentives. If Sterling matches that (and I don't think he will), he would have no choice but to let Odom walk. Correct?

This is assuming that no other teams offer Odom a big contract during that time, and I have no idea how realistic that is. In other words, we work on Brand, and if that falls through, we work on Odom.

Ed Helicopter Jones
07-15-2003, 07:17 PM
Hey Admiral!

Yeah, I'm assuming the plan of action you've suggested is what Ghost is referring to, I'm just not sure about the timing of it all.

Is there enough time to wait to see if Sterling will match on Brand before moving on Odom? Or do the Spurs need to simultaneously put offers on both players?

Free agency is a b!tch.

Marcus Bryant
07-15-2003, 07:21 PM
You can only make offer sheets when you have the cap room so you can't make offers to both at the same time.

Ed Helicopter Jones
07-15-2003, 07:26 PM
Thanks MB. :hat2

ChumpDumper
07-15-2003, 09:10 PM
However, in a break with their tradition, they're now out-bidding the field for Brand. Clipper vice president Andy Roeser confirmed Monday they raised their offer to Brand over the weekend from $65 million over five seasons to $78 million over six, moving beyond the $74 million other teams have as their limit.

Ok, with the new cap number this has changed.

The Spurs can offer as much as $81.125 million over 6 years.

The Clips can offer $86.23125 million over 6 years.

Anyone feel free to correct me.

This is getting good.

Marcus Bryant
07-15-2003, 09:11 PM
I think the reporter missed a few things...

ChumpDumper
07-15-2003, 09:12 PM
Well no one knew the actual cap number then.

Marcus Bryant
07-15-2003, 09:13 PM
I think the #s are screwed up that were reported on the radio program.

ChumpDumper
07-15-2003, 09:19 PM
I'm gonna go by my numbers and assume the stakes are being raised significantly--at least until baseline or genghis puts me in my place again.