Why is it that the same folks that ask for free market and no government intervention...

[DAF86]

...are the same ones that are against the separation of church and state?

[midnightpulp]

They also call any program funded by their tax dollars that might help the poors "socialism," while jerking off to the fact the military gets the biggest portion of their tax dollar. The military is a socialized service just the same as something like universal healthcare.

[Spurtacular]

This old chestnut.

Chumpettes really mad their hoax getting exposed.

[DMC]

...are the same ones that are against the separation of church and state?

Give an example

[DMC]

They also call any program funded by their tax dollars that might help the poors "socialism," while jerking off to the fact the military gets the biggest portion of their tax dollar. The military is a socialized service just the same as something like universal healthcare.

Wrong

Military IS government. It's not a service for the people. Even the police force isn't socialism. Maybe some of you don't know what socialism is and want to redefine it to fit a narrative.

Here, let me refresh your memories...

so·cial·ism
/ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/
Learn to pronounce
noun
a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.


So these strawman arguments you folks keep making are pointless.

How does the military fit into "means of production, distribution and exchange"? How is the military regulated by the community as a whole?

[DAF86]

Wrong

Military IS government. It's not a service for the people. Even the police force isn't socialism. Maybe some of you don't know what socialism is and want to redefine it to fit a narrative.

Yeah, that's why the phrase "thank you for your service" isn't something military veterans usually hear. :lol


Here, let me refresh your memories...

so·cial·ism
/ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/
Learn to pronounce
noun
a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.


So these strawman arguments you folks keep making are pointless.

How does the military fit into "means of production, distribution and exchange"? How is the military regulated by the community as a whole?

You do know that militars get paid, and goods and labour are used to produce military stuff, right? Everything in this World falls under the category "means of production, distribution and exchange".

[DAF86]

Give an example

50% of my friends. And, I can't tell for sure but, seeing your arguments here, probably you too.

[DAF86]

This old chestnut.

Chumpettes really mad their hoax getting exposed.

I know for a fact you know I'm not a "chumpettee", tbh. :lol

[Spurtacular]

I know for a fact you know I'm not a "chumpettee", tbh. :lol

I'll amend the record to reflect that I'm not calling you a chumpette. Perhaps you're just sympathetic to them in this instance is all. :lol

[FrostKing]

50% of my friends. And, I can't tell for sure but, seeing your arguments here, probably you too.
Conservatives folded on this issue decades ago

You might be seeing an increase in debate because "social activism" is being forced into the state, work place and schools

[Spurtacular]

Separation of church and state is pretty well established.

The reality is that the modern Democrat sees Christians as the enemy and they're letting it bleed into their decision making; and we're not seeing separation of anti-church and state.

The decision to shut down churches is a poor one that will blow up in these d-bags' faces.

[midnightpulp]

Wrong

Military IS government. It's not a service for the people. Even the police force isn't socialism. Maybe some of you don't know what socialism is and want to redefine it to fit a narrative.

Here, let me refresh your memories...

so·cial·ism
/ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/
Learn to pronounce
noun
a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.


So these strawman arguments you folks keep making are pointless.

How does the military fit into "means of production, distribution and exchange"? How is the military regulated by the community as a whole?

Government is the community, dude. They are supposed to be instruments of our collective will who act in our interests. You're also conflating socialism with socialized service. I define a socialized service/program as something funded with our collective tax dollars that "serves us all." Is the military funded with our tax dollars? Does the military serve us all (if you say no, then there goes that whole, "The military defends our freedoms" catch phrase).

I know there's a cognitive disconnect here with you since you served (meaning, we paid your salary) but are against universal healthcare (you don't your tax dollars paying for anyone else's salary/benefits).

[DAF86]

Conservatives folded on this issue decades ago

Then why are most churches still being funded by governments all over the World?

[FrostKing]

Then why are most churches still being funded by governments all over the World?
Good question

[Spurtacular]

Tell that to anybody who wants to buy a bottle of whiskey on a Sunday.

Can you somehow not buy boos on Sunday, slob?

[DAF86]

Can you somehow not buy boos on Sunday, slob?

But why can't he? Isn't that what freedom and capitalism should be all about?

[DMC]

Yeah, that's why the phrase "thank you for your service" isn't something military veterans usually hear. :lol

Under open government transparency guidelines, information on public employees (including those employed by Federal, state, and municipal governments) is a matter of public record. FederalPay.org has created a powerful search tool that allows public access to the EHRI-SDM dataset, which contains records of most public employees of the United States' Federal Government.

vs

It’s not easy to find military members or get their contact information. There’s no database to search. And privacy laws and military rules don’t allow the services to share this information.



You do know that militars get paid, and goods and labour are used to produce military stuff, right? Everything in this World falls under the category "means of production, distribution and exchange".

Since I served in the military I am well aware of how it works.

No, they do not produce their own ships, their own engines, their own guidance systems, their own aircraft, their own clothing, their own food, their own housing... for the most part.

1. Lockheed Martin Corp.
2. Boeing Co.
3. General Dynamics Corp.
4. Raytheon Co.
5. Northrop Grumman Corp
6. United Technologies Corp.
7. Huntington Ingalls Industries Inc.
8. Humana Inc.
9. Harris Corp.
10. BAE Systems PLC

Just to name a few private contractors.

[DAF86]

Under open government transparency guidelines, information on public employees (including those employed by Federal, state, and municipal governments) is a matter of public record. FederalPay.org has created a powerful search tool that allows public access to the EHRI-SDM dataset, which contains records of most public employees of the United States' Federal Government.

vs

It’s not easy to find military members or get their contact information. There’s no database to search. And privacy laws and military rules don’t allow the services to share this information.

Doesn't that contradict your point that the government and the military are the same thing? :lol

Also, public school teachers don't get their personal info leaked either, that doesn't mean government doesn't pay their salary wit tax money.


Since I served in the military I am well aware of how it works.

No, they do not produce their own ships, their own engines, their own guidance systems, their own aircraft, their own clothing, their own food, their own housing... for the most part.

1. Lockheed Martin Corp.
2. Boeing Co.
3. General Dynamics Corp.
4. Raytheon Co.
5. Northrop Grumman Corp
6. United Technologies Corp.
7. Huntington Ingalls Industries Inc.
8. Humana Inc.
9. Harris Corp.
10. BAE Systems PLC

Just to name a few private contractors.

And who pays for that? Yeeeah, that's right.

[DMC]

Government is the community, dude. They are supposed to be instruments of our collective will who act in our interests. You're also conflating socialism with socialized service. I define a socialized service/program as something funded with our collective tax dollars that "serves us all." Is the military funded with our tax dollars? Does the military serve us all (if you say no, then there goes that whole, "The military defends our freedoms" catch phrase).

I know there's a cognitive disconnect here with you since you served (meaning, we paid your salary) but are against universal healthcare (you don't your tax dollars paying for anyone else's salary/benefits).
Government isn't community. Otherwise the two terms are worthless and the term "private sector" means nothing.

Who here is against social services?

I don't want to be under the same level of healthcare I got in the military. It was shit then, it's shit now.

[DMC]

Doesn't that contradict your point that the government and the military are the same thing? :lol

Also, public school teachers don't get their personal info leaked either, that doesn't mean government doesn't pay their salary wit tax money.



And who pays for that? Yeeeah, that's right.
The government includes the military but that doesn't mean that, because the government has social services, the military is a social service. Common logical fallacies..

Socialism isn't money from the general public going to private corporations :lol

[DMC]

50% of my friends. And, I can't tell for sure but, seeing your arguments here, probably you too.

Give an example of someone being against the separation of church and state.

"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

Who is against this? Your anonymous friends list doesn't necessitate a thread. Talk to them or re-examine your priorities.

[Spurtacular]

Lots of areas in the South still have blue laws, Derp.

So you can't buy boos on Sunday?

[Spurtacular]

But why can't he? Isn't that what freedom and capitalism should be all about?

Unfettered capitalism good now?

[Spurtacular]

Cars too

Where do you live that you can't buy boos on Sunday? What podunk town? :lol

[ChumpDumper]

Where do you live that you can't buy boos on Sunday? What podunk town? :lolThe entire Republican controlled state of Texas.

[boutons_deux]

The entire Republican controlled state of Texas.

Goes back decades, Christian Sharia for TX is very old.

Search Results

Featured snippet from the web

Texas.

Of Texas' 254 counties,

5 are completely dry,

196 are partially dry,

and 55 are entirely wet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dry_communities_by_U.S._state#:~:text=reta il%20package%20stores.-,Texas,and%2055%20are%20entirely%20wet.

[Spurtacular]

The entire Republican controlled state of Texas.




Goes back decades, Christian Sharia for TX is very old.

Search Results

Featured snippet from the web

Texas.

Of Texas' 254 counties,

5 are completely dry,

196 are partially dry,

and 55 are entirely wet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dry_communities_by_U.S._state#:~:text=reta il%20package%20stores.-,Texas,and%2055%20are%20entirely%20wet.




Looks like you were handed a couple Pinnochios, Cherp. :lmao

[ChumpDumper]

Looks like you were handed a couple Pinnochios, Cherp. :lmaoNo. All liquor stores in the state are closed on Sunday.


Texas law prohibits off-premises sale of liquor (but not beer and wine) all day on Sunday, Thanksgiving Day, Christmas Day, and New Year's Day. Off-premises sale of beer and wine on Sunday is only allowed after 12:01 pm.

You seriously didn't know about Blue Laws?

[Spurtacular]

No. All liquor stores in the state are closed on Sunday.



You seriously didn't know about Blue Laws?

So Wikipedia is lying to you?

That your conspiracy theory?

[ChumpDumper]

So Wikipedia is lying to you?

That your conspiracy theory?I just quoted the Wikipedia article boutons linked, derp.

[DMC]

:lmao Derp doesn’t know about blue laws that exist in the majority of states

Those are mostly because of the increased traffic of people going to worship services vs those coming home from an all-nighter on Saturday (sometimes the same people!). Of course dry counties are, imo, stupid but democratic societies can do this. It's not something passed by congress though.

[Spurtacular]

I just quoted the Wikipedia article boutons linked, derp.


Texas law prohibits off-premises sale of liquor (but not beer and wine) all day on Sunday, Thanksgiving Day, Christmas Day, and New Year's Day. Off-premises sale of beer and wine on Sunday is only allowed after 12:01 pm.

Off-premises just means outside the building, snowflake. And that doesn't even exclude beer and wine. :lmao

[ChumpDumper]

Off-premises just means outside the building, snowflake.:lmao no

Liquor sales don't happen in street outside liquor store buildings during the week and Saturday.

What is wrong with you?

[spurraider21]

Conservatism isn’t about small government it’s about reinforcing hierarchy.

lower taxes to appease masses who still get screwed over through healthcare and shit wages

[ChumpDumper]

Stores that sell liquor are closed on Sundays, Derp.:lol he's trying to deny it to people currently living in Texas.

[Spurtacular]

:lmao no

Liquor sales don't happen in street outside liquor store buildings during the week and Saturday.

What is wrong with you?

Not by prohibition of law.

I'm telling you what your listed law says, snowflake. Nothing wrong with me.

[Spurtacular]

:lol he's trying to deny it to people currently living in Texas.

I'm not denying it at all. I haven't said the liquor stores aren't closed on Sunday.

[Spurtacular]

Off premises refers to where the alcohol is consumed, Derp.

If true, then the liquor stores could sell the liquor then and just ban consumption.

[ChumpDumper]

Not by prohibition of law.Yes, by prohibition of law.

Sealed-container liquor is sold inside (:lol) liquor stores every day but Sunday.

What is wrong with you?

[Neo.]

If true, then the liquor stores could sell the liquor then and just ban consumption.

i literally just spit from laughing at how remedial this post was lol

[ChumpDumper]

If true, then the liquor stores could sell the liquor then and just ban consumption.:lol no

What is wrong with you?

[Trainwreck2100]

Off-premises just means outside the building, snowflake. And that doesn't even exclude beer and wine. :lmao

liquor stores are off-premise retailers ergo they cannot operate on a sunday, nor can they operate after 9pm on other days.

[ChumpDumper]

Nah derp's right everyone. I was gonna by some liquor today but Imma wait for tomorrow when the Spec's truck just drives slowly through the neighborhood playing a musical box version of "Tequila" on a loop over a loudspeaker.

[Spurtacular]

What?

On premises sales of liquor means liquor you buy and consume on-site. Like bars and restaurants.

Off premises is where you buy liquor on-site and consume somewhere else. Like liquor stores.

Makes sense. Wasn't what I had read; but makes sense.

So, you can still buy beer and wine after 12:01 by law on Sunday though.

[Trainwreck2100]

Makes sense. Wasn't what I had read; but makes sense.

So, you can still buy beer and wine after 12:01 by law on Sunday though.

Something was completely opposite of what you read? Man I bet that never happens to you. First time for everything.

[Spurtacular]

To be fair, Texas liquor laws are 100% retarded, but still, it’s not that tough to figure this out :lol

To be fair, I don't care a whole lot about alcohol laws for a state in which I don't live.

[Spurtacular]

Something was completely opposite of what you read? Man I bet that never happens to you. First time for everything.

You been biting my ankles for a few days now, bruh.

I guess you butthurt like the rest the chumpettes.

[ChumpDumper]

To be fair, I don't care a whole lot about alcohol laws for a state in which I don't live.:lmao you begged and argued about it for four hours with people who live in that state.

What is wrong with you?

[Spurtacular]

:lmao you begged and argued about it for four hours with people who live in that state.

What is wrong with you?

I asked questions and discussed the matters to understand things.

You're the one who was playing for a huge tiny w. :lol

[Spurtacular]

Just making a point that church and state aren’t so separated in many areas.

Well, it's not like church gets to legislate laws. It's liberals who want sharia courts and shit like that, right?

[ChumpDumper]

I asked questions and discussed the matters to understand things.

You're the one who was playing for a huge tiny w. :lolYou're the one with the own goal of the month with your stupid interpretation of Texas liquor laws.:lol

[Spurtacular]

...............is this just the most blatant troll attempt ever? Sarcasm?

How did your feelings get hurt this time?

[Spurtacular]

You're the one with the own goal of the month with your stupid interpretation of Texas liquor laws.:lol

How so?

[Splits]

I asked questions and discussed the matters to understand things.

You're the one who was playing for a huge tiny w. :lol

:lmao

:cry I'm just intellectually curious and can barely speak my first language :cry

[ChumpDumper]

How so?:lmao

Off-premises just means outside the building, snowflake. And that doesn't even exclude beer and wine. :lmao


:lmao no

Liquor sales don't happen in street outside liquor store buildings during the week and Saturday.

What is wrong with you?


Not by prohibition of law.

I'm telling you what your listed law says, snowflake. Nothing wrong with me.


Off premises refers to where the alcohol is consumed, Derp.


If true, then the liquor stores could sell the liquor then and just ban consumption.

[Trainwreck2100]

You been biting my ankles for a few days now, bruh.

I guess you butthurt like the rest the chumpettes.

I called you out for posting bullshit in the better call saul thread in a seperate forum. I didn't site anything about conspiracies or covid there either, all i did was call you out for posting stupid click batiyt bullshit. However, you're the one who stuck his nose into my conversation with TGY, i was minding my own business, you came up to me.

As for your second statement, it's something that gets echoed every time cliques form on this site for some reason. Agreeing with someone does not make you friends, it doesn't even mean you believe everything they do. I don't like ChumpDumper he's kind of an asshole, Elnono, mono, baseline bum, and many others who disagree with you I have no problem with but really I don't give a fuck what they think. You see in Biology there's this thing called convergent evolution, think of it as the explanation as to why whales and sharks both have fins but don't share a close common ancestor. Two different organisms develop the same feature because it just makes sense.
Now your probably wondering "trainwreck2100 what does that have to do with this" All the posters who disagree with you didn't come to that conclusion together, we are separate individuals, who "converged" to the same opinion because it just makes sense

[Spurtacular]

I looked up off-premises meaning. It's different than what it means under Texas law though. I checked for understanding and came up with the correct interpretation.
I think it's funny that's the big win for you. Coming from a guy who likes to say that not everything is so serious. :lol

[DMC]

It's a bit of misnomer. Off premises sales doesn't mean sales off premises.

[ChumpDumper]

I looked up off-premises meaning. It's different than what it means under Texas law though. I checked for understanding and came up with the correct interpretation.
I think it's funny that's the big win for you. Coming from a guy who likes to say that not everything is so serious. :lolYou reeeeeeeeally don't care about this law, right?

[DMC]

I looked up off-premises meaning. It's different than what it means under Texas law though. I checked for understanding and came up with the correct interpretation.
I think it's funny that's the big win for you. Coming from a guy who likes to say that not everything is so serious. :lol

The 30.06 law has it correct but that only covers on premises. Chumpy doesn't have a discussion mode. You should know this by now.

[Spurtacular]

I called you out for posting bullshit in the better call saul thread in a seperate forum. I didn't site anything about conspiracies or covid there either, all i did was call you out for posting stupid click batiyt bullshit. However, you're the one who stuck his nose into my conversation with TGY, i was minding my own business, you came up to me.

As for your second statement, it's something that gets echoed every time cliques form on this site for some reason. Agreeing with someone does not make you friends, it doesn't even mean you believe everything they do. I don't like ChumpDumper (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=153) he's kind of an asshole, Elnono, mono, baseline bum, and many others who disagree with you I have no problem with but really I don't give a fuck what they think. You see in Biology there's this thing called convergent evolution, think of it as the explanation as to why whales and sharks both have fins but don't share a close common ancestor. Two different organisms develop the same feature because it just makes sense.
Now your probably wondering "trainwreck2100 what does that have to do with this" All the posters who disagree with you didn't come to that conclusion together, we are separate individuals, who "converged" to the same opinion because it just makes sense

You're on that Better Call Saul shit?

I was going to post this; but then I thought, well why give a big explanation for this shit. But since your still hanging on my fucking dick about it, you fucking faggot, let me just say the first video was just to bump the thread into consciousness. And the second had some fundamental info that I thought was worth knowing in the first few minutes. Now I was magnanimous about you going on the rag about that shit; but really now, you can fuck off. I don't give a fuck that a posted video hurts your feelings, twirp.

And you can think you're all about the autonomy all you want. Truth is you just are some fucker who barely gets noticed because you really don't have anything important to say and you find comfort in fellow twirps. Let that sink in. You're not as special as you wish you were. It's why you need to post a list of losers as some sort of validation that you don't naturally feel in the first place.

[ChumpDumper]

You're on that Better Call Saul shit?

I was going to post this; but then I thought, well why give a big explanation for this shit. But since your still hanging on my fucking dick about it, you fucking faggot, let me just say the first video was just to bump the thread into consciousness. And the second had some fundamental info that I thought was worth knowing in the first few minutes. Now I was magnanimous about you going on the rag about that shit; but really now, you can fuck off. I don't give a fuck that a posted video hurts your feelings, twirp.

And you can think you're all about the autonomy all you want. Truth is you just are some fucker who barely gets noticed because you really don't have anything important to say and you find comfort in fellow twirps. Let that sink in. You're not as special as you wish you were. It's why you need to post a list of losers as some sort of validation that you don't naturally feel in the first place.:lol discussion mode

[Spurtacular]

The 30.06 law has it correct but that only covers on premises. Chumpy doesn't have a discussion mode. You should know this by now.

Yea, he just chirps his ass off. :lol

[DMC]

Yea, he just chirps his ass off. :lol

Los Lonely Boy

[Spurtacular]

However, you're the one who stuck his nose into my conversation with TGY, i was minding my own business, you came up to me.

You asked about VPN in multiple threads like a creepy little fuckhole.

Even now you haven't explained the fascination.

[Spurtacular]

It's a bit of misnomer. Off premises sales doesn't mean sales off premises.

Yup. But a huge tiny w for chump that I didn't know what is meant by it legally right off. :lol

[Splits]

Yup. But a huge tiny w for chump that I didn't know what is meant by it legally right off. :lol

What's your first language?

[Spurtacular]

What's your first language?

Nothing wrong with that sentence.

Have you been a twat your entire life?

[Splits]

Nothing wrong with that sentence.

Have you been a twat your entire life?

No, only the past couple of years.

Do you ever get tired of being shit on?

[Spurtacular]

No, only the past couple of years.

Do you ever get tired of being shit on?

The next time you shit on me will be the first.

What made you a twat? You say you're making six figures. Is that just fiction and you're bitter AF?
You wouldn't be the first on ST to go that route.

[Trainwreck2100]

You're on that Better Call Saul shit?

I was going to post this; but then I thought, well why give a big explanation for this shit. But since your still hanging on my fucking dick about it, you fucking faggot, let me just say the first video was just to bump the thread into consciousness. And the second had some fundamental info that I thought was worth knowing in the first few minutes. Now I was magnanimous about you going on the rag about that shit; but really now, you can fuck off. I don't give a fuck that a posted video hurts your feelings, twirp.

And you can think you're all about the autonomy all you want. Truth is you just are some fucker who barely gets noticed because you really don't have anything important to say and you find comfort in fellow twirps. Let that sink in. You're not as special as you wish you were. It's why you need to post a list of losers as some sort of validation that you don't naturally feel in the first place.
I'm not on the BCS shit, you said I've been "biting your ankles the last few days", in the last four days the BCS shit was literally our only conversation before today, so I assumed by your own words you were still on the BCS shit. Because those were your words. It's funny though that you equate being noticed by "twirps" to feeling special. I don't find validation on an internet message board, who the fuck finds validation in the opinions of random internet strangers.

[Trainwreck2100]

You asked about VPN in multiple threads like a creepy little fuckhole.

Even now you haven't explained the fascination.
You tell me I'm following you around yet you come to me.
I wasn't talking to you, do you feel the need to protect TGY? Do you feel he is incapable of protecting himself.

[Spurtacular]

I'm not on the BCS shit, you said I've been "biting your ankles the last few days", in the last four days the BCS shit was literally our only conversation before today, so I assumed by your own words you were still on the BCS shit. Because those were your words. It's funny though that you equate being noticed by "twirps" to feeling special. I don't find validation on an internet message board, who the fuck finds validation in the opinions of random internet strangers.

There's nothing about you worth validating.

[Spurtacular]

You tell me I'm following you around yet you come to me.
I wasn't talking to you, do you feel the need to protect TGY? Do you feel he is incapable of protecting himself.

I can leave you on the side of the road like the piece of shit you are, tbh. I just want to know what your fascination is with his VPN that you needed to ask over multiple threads.

[Splits]

The next time you shit on me will be the first.

What made you a twat? You say you're making six figures. Is that just fiction and you're bitter AF?
You wouldn't be the first on ST to go that route.

say? I posted my W2's for several years running.

[Spurtacular]

say? I posted my W2's for several years running.

My money is on fiction. The only personal truth ever posted here is Blake admitting he's a cuckold. :lmao

[Trainwreck2100]

There's nothing about you worth validating.

That's a fantastic theory and I'm sure you'll use scientific method to prove it


I can leave you on the side of the road like the piece of shit you are, tbh. I just want to know what your fascination is with his VPN that you needed to ask over multiple threads.

Upon further research I've come up with the following conclusion "That ain't none of yo damn business" if you like to refute please supply relevant materials

[Spurtacular]

That's a fantastic theory and I'm sure you'll use scientific method to prove it



Upon further research I've come up with the following conclusion "That ain't none of yo damn business" if you like to refute please supply relevant materials

Well, I never found you interesting before. Why should this be any different....

[Trainwreck2100]

Well, I never found you interesting before. Why should this be any different....

Well you didn't quote me without me referring to you first before today, and for some reason you decided today would be different. You seem like a fickle guy

[Spurtacular]

Well you didn't quote me without me referring to you first before today, and for some reason you decided today would be different. You seem like a fickle guy

Without referring to me first?

[Trainwreck2100]

Without referring to me first?

I can't say you've never quoted me before but I can say you've never quoted me without is being a response to me quoting you

[Spurtacular]

I can't say you've never quoted me before but I can say you've never quoted me without is being a response to me quoting you

Well, I wasn't lying when I said I don't find you interesting. But who knows; I could be wrong.

[DAF86]

The government includes the military but that doesn't mean that, because the government has social services, the military is a social service. Common logical fallacies..

If the Military isn't a social service, what is it then?


Socialism isn't money from the general public going to private corporations :lol

When did Socialism enter the discussion? :lol

[DAF86]

Give an example of someone being against the separation of church and state.

"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

Who is against this? Your anonymous friends list doesn't necessitate a thread. Talk to them or re-examine your priorities.

Are you in favour of the separation of Church and State?

And, do you want an example of someone being against the separation of Church and State? Well, pick any politic out there. There's a reason churchs are still being funded by tax money, tbh.

[DAF86]

Unfettered capitalism good now?

That's not the point, though. The point is the hypocresy of those asking for a free market yet defending the finding of the church by the State.

[midnightpulp]

That's not the point, though. The point is the hypocresy of those asking for a free market yet defending the finding of the church by the State.

You'll never penetrate their thick skulls. Conservatives LOVE, and I mean LOVE, BIG government when it works for their interests. Bloated government spending on the military? They love it. Government legislating morality with regards to drug use, abortion, gay rights, and speech (flag burning should be illegal). They love it. Violations of the 4th amendment if it helps "get thugs off the streets." They love it. Federal government infringing upon states' rights if said state is doing something they don't like. They love it. Use of eminent domain. Love it (if it means seizing land to build something like a wall to keep out the evil Messicans).

Liberals are for a "big" government, too, but the difference is liberals at least want to channel that big government into doing good for US citizens and for humanity as a whole. Conservatives want to exercise big government to impose power.

[Spurtacular]

That's not the point, though. The point is the hypocresy of those asking for a free market yet defending the finding of the church by the State.

Why? Limiting lasciviousness is good for society regardless of religion.
It's like supporting laws against disturbing the peace. I don't think people should be having loud house parties at 1 AM on a Tuesday night just because I support capitalism.
Honestly, ya'll are stretching like Reck's asshole on a Saturday night.

[Spurtacular]

You'll never penetrate their thick skulls. Conservatives LOVE, and I mean LOVE, BIG government when it works for their interests. Bloated government spending on the military? They love it. Government legislating morality with regards to drug use, abortion, gay rights, and speech (flag burning should be illegal). They love it. Violations of the 4th amendment if it helps "get thugs off the streets." They love it. Federal government infringing upon states' rights if said state is doing something they don't like. Use of eminent domain. Love it (if it means seizing land to build something like a wall to keep out the evil Messicans).

Liberals are for a "big" government, too, but the difference is liberals at least want to channel that big government into doing good for US citizens and for humanity as a whole. Conservatives want to exercise big government to impose power.

They do. And neither are channeling for good. They both serve their corporate masters. Don't kid yourself.

[ElNono]

You'll never penetrate their thick skulls. Conservatives LOVE, and I mean LOVE, BIG government when it works for their interests. Bloated government spending on the military? They love it. Government legislating morality with regards to drug use, abortion, gay rights, and speech (flag burning should be illegal). They love it. Violations of the 4th amendment if it helps "get thugs off the streets." They love it. Federal government infringing upon states' rights if said state is doing something they don't like. They love it. Use of eminent domain. Love it (if it means seizing land to build something like a wall to keep out the evil Messicans).

Liberals are for a "big" government, too, but the difference is liberals at least want to channel that big government into doing good for US citizens and for humanity as a whole. Conservatives want to exercise big government to impose power.

They were even against the 2nd amendment when them nigglers had a militia, tbh...

[midnightpulp]

They do. And neither are channeling for good. They both serve their corporate masters. Don't kid yourself.

If you honestly want power to return to the people, then corporate wealth needs to be seized and redistributed. That's honestly the only way. Power is money. I've said before, the only way you can rid society of a "master," is through anarchy. Yes, I know anarchy conjures up images of lawlessness in the streets, but as I've told you before, it simply means an abolishment of hierarchies.

Problem is, it would take an almost perfect moral society to live in an anarchy. Sociopaths and psychopaths would likely exploit the law-and-order vacuum to, ironically, rise to some form of power.

[Spurtacular]

If you honestly want power to return to the people, then corporate wealth needs to be seized and redistributed. That's honestly the only way. Power is money. I've said before, the only way you can rid society of a "master," is through anarchy. Yes, I know anarchy conjures up images of lawlessness in the streets, but as I've told you before, it simply means an abolishment of hierarchies.

Problem is, it would take an almost perfect moral society to live in an anarchy. Sociopaths and psychopaths would likely exploit the law-and-order vacuum to, ironically, rise to some form of power.

How'd that work out for the USSR?

[DMC]

If the Military isn't a social service, what is it then?

Can you get medical treatment at a military hospital? Can you live on a military base? Can you call the military to come to your aid? Do you have any interaction whatsoever with the military? Do they have any with you or with your community in the US? They have more interaction with people from other countries than they do with people in their own country. They are not a social service, since they do not provide a service to your community. Being a benefit to you doesn't make them a service to you. Social services falls under the Health and Human Services division, not under the DoD.


When did Socialism enter the discussion? :lol

They also call any program funded by their tax dollars that might help the poors "socialism," while jerking off to the fact the military gets the biggest portion of their tax dollar. The military is a socialized service just the same as something like universal healthcare.
This is Mid conflating socialism with military spending.

[midnightpulp]

How'd that work out for the USSR?

That's my point. Shitheels will rise to power in that vacuum. The problem isn't necessarily these ideologies themselves, it's the fact sociopaths exist. That's my pet theory of why we never make any significant steps toward the proverbial "utopia." Sociopaths don't want a utopia. They want a system in which they can wield power over others. That passage from 1984 where the main character asks "the party" why they're doing what they do, because their behavior seems so irrational to him. Their response: Power.

It's literally like a drug for that mentality. I actually believe humanity is overall good, but the 5% of the population or whatever on that anti-social spectrum are enough to keep progress stagnant.

[midnightpulp]

^^^^


Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now you begin to understand me.”

[DMC]

Mid - even though there are some like you who have genuine brotherly love and want the best for at least the majority of people, the fact remains that many supporters on each side of the isle (and between isles) want whats best for them individually. Social welfare programs that benefit the downtrodden and misfortunate also benefit the lazy. Trickle down economics that benefit the middle class (supposedly) moreso benefit the wealthy. Individuals who claim to be for the collective are quite often looking out for their own interests and try to sell that as socially aware policy. The examples are everywhere.

[Spurtacular]

That's my point. Shitheels will rise to power in that vacuum. The problem isn't necessarily these ideologies themselves, it's the fact sociopaths exist. That's my pet theory of why we never make any significant steps toward the proverbial "utopia." Sociopaths don't want a utopia. They want a system in which they can wield power over others. That passage from 1984 where the main character asks "the party" why they're doing what they do, because their behavior seems so irrational to him. Their response: Power.

It's literally like a drug for that mentality. I actually believe humanity is overall good, but the 5% of the population or whatever on that anti-social spectrum are enough to keep progress stagnant.

I got news for you. We got nothing but sociopaths in our govt. now even without the communism.

[midnightpulp]

Mid - even though there are some like you who have genuine brotherly love and want the best for at least the majority of people, the fact remains that many supporters on each side of the isle (and between isles) want whats best for them individually. Social welfare programs that benefit the downtrodden and misfortunate also benefit the lazy. Trickle down economics that benefit the middle class (supposedly) moreso benefit the wealthy. Individuals who claim to be for the collective are quite often looking out for their own interests and try to sell that as socially aware policy. The examples are everywhere.

Sure, and there's nothing wrong with looking out for your interests first. I have no problem with that. We all do it, and we all should do it. But I think we also need some kind of collective spiritual or psychological "awakening" (and no, not suggesting religion, even though some could use that if they're inclined) that realizes that material things won't bring you actual happiness. Mega rich people who have 40 houses around the world and mountains of shit they never, ever use or appreciate act more like addicts than people who buy or collect things to legitimately enjoy them. And no, I'm not suggesting we legislate "consumption," I'm just pointing out our collective addiction to "things" which prevents progress toward helping others.

And then there's the "addiction to power" mentality I pointed out above. People like Bezos and such are no longer interested in wealth and "things," they're interested in power.

[ElNono]

Mid - even though there are some like you who have genuine brotherly love and want the best for at least the majority of people, the fact remains that many supporters on each side of the isle (and between isles) want whats best for them individually. Social welfare programs that benefit the downtrodden and misfortunate also benefit the lazy. Trickle down economics that benefit the middle class (supposedly) moreso benefit the wealthy. Individuals who claim to be for the collective are quite often looking out for their own interests and try to sell that as socially aware policy. The examples are everywhere.

The problem is that even if there are opportunists, I rather still move forward and then try to weed them out, because the alternative is do nothing and more of the same. And it's chock full of opportunists there too.

[midnightpulp]

I got news for you. We got nothing but sociopaths in our govt. now even without the communism.

Sure. I never denied that, but you also don't like the anarchy solution (which I agree isn't achievable). So what's the solution?

I would use their sociopathy and narcissism against them. These psychologies are rather easy to manipulate. They'll shift with the winds in order to stay in power, so what this requires of us is to hold them mercilessly accountable. But the core issue is we the people can't agree on which way to shift them. I want to shift them toward implementing universal healthcare and taxing the ever loving fuck of out of the oligarch class. You perhaps don't. We both think we're right, so we remain at loggerheads.

[Spurtacular]

Sure. I never denied that, but you also don't like the anarchy solution (which I agree isn't achievable). So what's the solution?

I would use their sociopathy and narcissism against them. These psychologies are rather easy to manipulate. They'll shift with the winds in order to stay in power, so what this requires of us is to hold them mercilessly accountable. But the core issue is we the people can't agree on which way to shift them. I want to shift them toward implementing universal healthcare and taxing the ever loving fuck of out of the oligarch class. You perhaps don't. We both think we're right, so we remain at loggerheads.

The solutions are returning to fairness as much as possible. The solutions are expecting honesty. The solutions are people giving a fuck. We have a nation full of narcissists.

One example is Obamacare. We knew it was bull shit. The idea of companies cutting hours b/c they don't want to pay healthcare? That's why healthcare can't be tied to employment. And then when the govt. has us by the balls, everything is raised. Just like that, overnight, healthcare went from one-sixth of the economy to one-fifth. I literally watched as Obama changed his stump speech for that. His corporate overlords got in his ear and said, no we expect a bigger cut. What a faggot. And low IQ Americans accept this. And the rigged media touts it as a success. It's bull shit.

[DAF86]

Can you get medical treatment at a military hospital? Can you live on a military base? Can you call the military to come to your aid? Do you have any interaction whatsoever with the military? Do they have any with you or with your community in the US? They have more interaction with people from other countries than they do with people in their own country. They are not a social service, since they do not provide a service to your community. Being a benefit to you doesn't make them a service to you. Social services falls under the Health and Human Services division, not under the DoD.

You are just grasping at straws here but whatever. For the sake of argument, let's say the military isn't a service. It is still funded by tax money. Which was all the point midnightpulp was making. If the military isn't a service to the community, then all the more reason to stop being paid by it, tbh.


This is Mid conflating socialism with military spending.

Military spending is funded by the government taxing the people. I don't know if it is Socialism, but it sure as hell isn't capitalism, tbh.

[midnightpulp]

The solutions are returning to fairness as much as possible. The solutions are expecting honesty. The solutions are people giving a fuck. We have a nation full of narcissists.

One example is Obamacare. We knew it was bull shit. The idea of companies cutting hours b/c they don't want to pay healthcare? That's why healthcare can't be tied to employment. And then when the govt. has us by the balls, everything is raised. Just like that, overnight, healthcare went from one-sixth of the economy to one-fifth. I literally watched as Obama changed his stump speech for that. His corporate overlords got in his ear and said, no we expect a bigger cut. What a faggot. And low IQ Americans accept this. And the rigged media touts it as a success. It's bull shit.

Yep. This is where we'll agree in lockstep and until this collective psychosis is fixed, American progress will remain stagnant. And yes, the fault is with American culture at large, a cultural mentality that gained traction during the 80s when obtaining wealth was the "greatest good" a person could endeavor toward and is the sole measure of their worthiness. This is why I like Christianity vs. my liberal counterparts, even though I don't believe in the supernatural aspects of it and obviously don't agree with some of its other moral dogma, but its message was clear about the evils of greed. The famous quote of, "Easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle than it is for a rich man to get into heaven," wasn't suggesting rich people are inherently evil. It was illustrating how bottomless greed corrupts a person, how it gives that rich person a superiority complex that he uses to justify his treatment of the poor.

This is also why America is about as far of a "Christian nation" as a nation could be. Hence, we're a nation filled with "Jeebotards," not actual followers of Jesus.

[Spurtacular]

Yep. This is where we'll agree in lockstep and until this collective psychosis is fixed, American progress will remain stagnant. And yes, the fault is with American culture at large, a cultural mentality that gained traction during the 80s when obtaining wealth was the "greatest good" a person could endeavor toward and is the sole measure of their worthiness. This is why I like Christianity vs. my liberal counterparts, even though I don't believe in the supernatural aspects of it and obviously don't agree with some of its other moral dogma, but its message was clear about the evils of greed. The famous quote of, "Easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle than it is for a rich man to get into heaven," wasn't suggesting rich people are inherently evil. It was illustrating how bottomless greed corrupts a person, how it gives that rich person a superiority complex that he uses to justify his treatment of the poor.

This is also why America is about as far of a "Christian nation" as a nation could be. Hence, we're a nation filled with "Jeebotards," not actual followers of Jesus.

Or why the woman who gave her only two pence to charity was better than the rich throwing around their wealth while living the life.

I frankly think regardless of left/right, people just need to wake the fuck up. I would've taken Tulsi over Trump (and I'm inclined right) because she was calling out the corruption and being genuine. You really think she wasn't getting one percent even in polls? Shit is rigged, man. Only system players are allowed. These Chumpettes laugh that it's all a conspiracy, but the truth is they support the corruption is all.

[DMC]

Sure, and there's nothing wrong with looking out for your interests first. I have no problem with that. We all do it, and we all should do it. But I think we also need some kind of collective spiritual or psychological "awakening" (and no, not suggesting religion, even though some could use that if they're inclined) that realizes that material things won't bring you actual happiness. Mega rich people who have 40 houses around the world and mountains of shit they never, ever use or appreciate act more like addicts than people who buy or collect things to legitimately enjoy them. And no, I'm not suggesting we legislate "consumption," I'm just pointing out our collective addiction to "things" which prevents progress toward helping others.

And then there's the "addiction to power" mentality I pointed out above. People like Bezos and such are no longer interested in wealth and "things," they're interested in power.

While you're having your awakening, those others who will never leave the "me first" realm will pretend to be there with you, but will make sure they get the lion's share of the rewards. What you get from it is a warm and fuzzy.

[DMC]

You are just grasping at straws here but whatever. For the sake of argument, let's say the military isn't a service. It is still funded by tax money. Which was all the point midnightpulp was making. If the military isn't a service to the community, then all the more reason to stop being paid by it, tbh.


Sounds like you could be a Federalist.

In time of actual war, great discretionary powers are constantly given to the Executive Magistrate. Constant apprehension of War, has the same tendency to render the head too large for the body. A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty. The means of defence agst. foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home. Among the Romans it was a standing maxim to excite a war, whenever a revolt was apprehended. Throughout all Europe, the armies kept up under the pretext of defending, have enslaved the people. ~ James Madison, Speech before Constitutional Convention (6/29/1787).



Military spending is funded by the government taxing the people. I don't know if it is Socialism, but it sure as hell isn't capitalism, tbh.

Although the term “capitalism” has long worked as a shorthand signifier for a market economy, there is a sense in which to use it at all is to accept the socialist’s premise that a market economy is a consciously created system, manipulated by its creators for their own material ends. But it isn’t that. A socialist economy is, by definition, a system—it must be created, planned, vigilantly monitored and forcefully regulated in order to function. But a market economy has no plan. It begins to exhibit the qualities of a system when its wealthiest actors are allowed to bend governmental policies to their advantage, but that is a vastly different thing from a system deliberately designed for stated goals from the beginning.

We will surely go on using the terms “socialism” and “nationalism” and “democracy” without knowing quite what we mean by them. We can hardly do otherwise. But at least those things exist. “Capitalism,” in the sense in which its leftist critics use the term, never did.

Mr. Swaim is an editorial page writer at the Wall Street Journal.

[ElNono]

Although the term “capitalism” has long worked as a shorthand signifier for a market economy, there is a sense in which to use it at all is to accept the socialist’s premise that a market economy is a consciously created system, manipulated by its creators for their own material ends. But it isn’t that. A socialist economy is, by definition, a system—it must be created, planned, vigilantly monitored and forcefully regulated in order to function. But a market economy has no plan. It begins to exhibit the qualities of a system when its wealthiest actors are allowed to bend governmental policies to their advantage, but that is a vastly different thing from a system deliberately designed for stated goals from the beginning.

We will surely go on using the terms “socialism” and “nationalism” and “democracy” without knowing quite what we mean by them. We can hardly do otherwise. But at least those things exist. “Capitalism,” in the sense in which its leftist critics use the term, never did.

Mr. Swaim is an editorial page writer at the Wall Street Journal.

This sounds romantic and poetic, but it's a bunch of nonsense. Capitalism always had a plan, which was always very clearly delineated: private ownership of means of production with a profit motive. And it has to be constantly monitored and regulated, because historically we have learned that if you do not, you end up with slave masters, robber barons and too big to fail. This doesn't mean I endorse socialism, it simply means that they're simply two different systems, each with it's pro and cons, and each one better suited for particular situations.

[DAF86]

Sounds like you could be a Federalist.

In time of actual war, great discretionary powers are constantly given to the Executive Magistrate. Constant apprehension of War, has the same tendency to render the head too large for the body. A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty. The means of defence agst. foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home. Among the Romans it was a standing maxim to excite a war, whenever a revolt was apprehended. Throughout all Europe, the armies kept up under the pretext of defending, have enslaved the people. ~ James Madison, Speech before Constitutional Convention (6/29/1787).


Although the term “capitalism” has long worked as a shorthand signifier for a market economy, there is a sense in which to use it at all is to accept the socialist’s premise that a market economy is a consciously created system, manipulated by its creators for their own material ends. But it isn’t that. A socialist economy is, by definition, a system—it must be created, planned, vigilantly monitored and forcefully regulated in order to function. But a market economy has no plan. It begins to exhibit the qualities of a system when its wealthiest actors are allowed to bend governmental policies to their advantage, but that is a vastly different thing from a system deliberately designed for stated goals from the beginning.

We will surely go on using the terms “socialism” and “nationalism” and “democracy” without knowing quite what we mean by them. We can hardly do otherwise. But at least those things exist. “Capitalism,” in the sense in which its leftist critics use the term, never did.

Mr. Swaim is an editorial page writer at the Wall Street Journal.

Quoting someone else because you don't know what to say. :lol

[RandomGuy]

...are the same ones that are against the separation of church and state?

You kinda have to be at least mildly hypocritical to be an evangelical. I think it is part of the definition.