QB rankings heading into 2020 season?

[Millennial_Messiah]

1. Mahomes
2. Brady
3. Wilson
4. Brees
5. Rodgers
6. Wentz
7. Watson
8. Jackson
9. Stafford
10. Ryan
11. Carr
12. Rivers
13. Murray
14. Cousins
15. Garoppolo
16. Goff
17. Tannehill
18. Roethlisberger
19. Darnold
20. Prescott/Dalton
21. Jones
22. Newton
23. Mayfield
24. Burrow
25. Foles/Trubisky
26. Tagovailoa/Fitzpatrick
27. Lock
28. Bridgewater
29. Allen
30. Minshew
31. Taylor/Herbert
32. Haskins (Smith would be higher if available)

[spurraider21]

not a terrible list. i think dak is too low. carr is probably a few spots too high.

[Blake]

Vince Young noticeably absent.

So is Chad Henne

[Monostradamus]

QB play is at low point tbh. Mahomes is the only guy on there you’d say is a guaranteed lock for a great season.

Russ is going to be very good but overrated, per usual.

Brady, Brees, & Rodgers all have Cliff potential.

Lamar & Watson could be overexposed and countered by defenses, doubtful but possible.

Wentz/Stafford/Ryan are always putting up historic levels of empty stats.

[Blake]

Goff is an enigma. He's the one guy I can't really get a read on. I think the rest are pretty predictable.

Op has Brady way too high.

And the troll gig with Dak at 20

[i'm_still_beta]

1. Mahomes
2. Wilson
They are 1a and 1b tbh. I want to see Mahomes play with Seattle weapons.
3. Lamar Jackson

Who cares. QBs and their ranking are too dependant on weapons, o-line and coaching. Compare Brady in 2013 and 2014. Rodgers in 2014 and 2015 and so on. Fivehead in 2010 and 2012. Most overvalued position in all of sports.

[DAF86]

Mahomes
Wilson

Lamar

Watson
Brees
Rodgers
Brady

Big Ben
Ryan
Stafford
Rivers
Wentz
Cousins
Murray
Dak
Goff
Garoppolo
Allen
Tannehill
Carr

Bridgewater
Darnold
Newton
Burrow
Tago
Lock
Trubisky
Mayfield
Jones
Minshew
Herbert
Haskins

[Blake]

1. Mahomes
2. Wilson
They are 1a and 1b tbh. I want to see Mahomes play with Seattle weapons.
3. Lamar Jackson

Who cares. QBs and their ranking are too dependant on weapons, o-line and coaching. Compare Brady in 2013 and 2014. Rodgers in 2014 and 2015 and so on. Fivehead in 2010 and 2012. Most overvalued position in all of sports.

Lol "most overvalued position"

If it's not #1, what is?

[Millennial_Messiah]

Goff is an enigma. He's the one guy I can't really get a read on. I think the rest are pretty predictable.

Op has Brady way too high.

And the troll gig with Dak at 20
Not a troll gig... how do you essentially go .500 three years in a row with a consistently top-3 OLine and receiver corps?! I don't care about Jason Garrett, great QBs win whoever the coach is, look at the shitty coaches Peyton won with.

Prescott isn't clutch. He's the king of empty stats if there ever was one... did you watch last year? Sure he had 4900 yards, but two-thirds of them were with the Cowboys down double digits on the scoreboard. And when he needed a key game winning drive? 4 opportunities last year; fell flat on his face all 4 times. Even average QBs will convert at least 1 or 2 of those chances; top 10 QBs 2 or 3. Elite QBs, 3 or 4 out of 4.

Prescott isn't clutch. He didn't get extended or paid big money long term for a good reason. He's just fine where I put him. He's average, and the richest owner in sports obviously agrees. He didn't get to be so rich coming from podunk Arkansas by making poor business decisions. He's going to play 2020 on the tag and like it, then get tagged and traded next March. That's no more than he deserves.

[Blake]

Lol jerry is a great GM because he's a great businessman. Is this 1998?

There are so many horrible GM moves over the last 20 years by Jerry it would take a new thread to list them all.

And the "empty stat" argument doesn't fly if you've got Kyler Murray 7 spots ahead. You're just a bitter typical cowboy fan that always roots for the backup QB when they are losing. We all know this, Andy.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Lol jerry is a great GM because he's a great businessman. Is this 1998?

There are so many horrible GM moves over the last 20 years by Jerry it would take a new thread to list them all.

And the "empty stat" argument doesn't fly if you've got Kyler Murray 7 spots ahead. You're just a bitter typical cowboy fan that always roots for the backup QB when they are losing. We all know this, Andy.

I'm expecting a big breakout season not just from Kyler, but from Arizona as a whole. They now have 2 superstars at LB and an offensive mastermind at HC with one of the best WR corps in the league now, if not the best. Kyler is just as fast/good as Lamar Jackson but with a better arm and a much more pass friendly offense.

I'd be surprised if my #13 ranking for Murray isn't "too low" by the end of the season. Expect Arizona to win double digits even in that loaded division. That division is the best in the NFL and they all play the AFC East and NFC East which of course helps.

Last year, the 49ers were my "breakout candidate" team of the year, and I got it more than right. In 2017 the Eagles were my breakout contender, and guess what, I got it *more than* right. I almost always get that prediction right, if nothing else. This year it's Arizona for me... shout-out to Culburn/Thread out there.

[SpursforSix]

IDK about real football rankings but for fantasy, the top 5 or 6 are all at least half black.

Just checked...it's the top 6. Where's Pedante?

[spurraider21]

QB play is at low point tbh. Mahomes is the only guy on there you’d say is a guaranteed lock for a great season.

Russ is going to be very good but underrated, per usual.

Brady, Brees, & Rodgers all have Cliff potential.

Lamar & Watson could be overexposed and countered by defenses, doubtful but possible.

Wentz/Stafford/Ryan are always putting up historic levels of empty stats.
fify

[i'm_still_beta]

Lol "most overvalued position"

If it's not #1, what is?

QBs are the most important players in NFL. But they aren't that important. They're dependent on offensive line, receivers, running backs, play-calling.

Look at the best quarterbacks in their best and down seasons. It looks like they have best seasons in stacked teams and worst seasons when they play with weak supporting casts. Check Brady's perfomance in first half and then in second half of 2015 and guess why he was better in the first half.

Yes, Mahomes > Smith and Chiefs are champs now. Ok. Put him in Chicago or Jacksonville and well, he won't be as productive. And 49ers were robbed (I'm not Chiefs hater, Mahomes is my favourite player after Brady). Jet hold wasp or jet chip hold, I don't know (Pats, Packers and all teams with marquee qbs except the Saints in the playoffs always get ref help).

So, my point is that qbs aren't NBA superstars who are extremely productive even with mediocre rosters. Elite qbs aren't so elite in bad teams.

[Millennial_Messiah]

QBs are the most important players in NFL. But they aren't that important. They're dependent on offensive line, receivers, running backs, play-calling.

Look at the best quarterbacks in their best and down seasons. It looks like they have best seasons in stacked teams and worst seasons when they play with weak supporting casts. Check Brady's perfomance in first half and then in second half of 2015 and guess why he was better in the first half.

Yes, Mahomes > Smith and Chiefs are champs now. Ok. Put him in Chicago or Jacksonville and well, he won't be as productive. And 49ers were robbed (I'm not Chiefs hater, Mahomes is my favourite player after Brady). Jet hold wasp or jet chip hold, I don't know (Pats, Packers and all teams with marquee qbs except the Saints in the playoffs always get ref help).
:lmao

Start at 14:27:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oblOnHSX8Ko

[i'm_still_beta]

:lmao

Start at 14:27:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oblOnHSX8Ko

My bad

[Spurtacular]

Congrats in advance to Brady on his upcoming MVP.

[phxspurfan]

1. Jimmy G

2-50. - tbh

[Will Hunting]

Do the Chiefs have the easiest path to a repeat ever? Mahomes is in his own league in terms of QB play and they have no major departures from last season, while players around the league are dropping out like flies.

[phxspurfan]

Do the Chiefs have the easiest path to a repeat ever? Mahomes is in his own league in terms of QB play and they have no major departures from last season, while players around the league are dropping out like flies.

Half their skill players will stay home tbh. Niners all the way


Also, hot take -- this may be the year for the Browns to finally get it together. With all the Covid kerfuffling they could conceivably make the playoffs and make a splash, especially if competitors start sitting since some of them are all fat and happy

[Millennial_Messiah]

Do the Chiefs have the easiest path to a repeat ever? Mahomes is in his own league in terms of QB play and they have no major departures from last season, while players around the league are dropping out like flies.

Half their skill players will stay home tbh. Niners all the way


Tyreek and Sammy are whiny bitches, but with the salary they're making they can't really afford to hold out/sit out. Kelce is a "tough country boy" and won't sit out.

[phxspurfan]

Tyreek and Sammy are whiny bitches, but with the salary they're making they can't really afford to hold out/sit out. Kelce is a "tough country boy" and won't sit out.

Their starting RB Damien Williams just opted out yesterday, their starting right tackle or whatever opted out a few days ago. Wait for it...

[Millennial_Messiah]

Their starting RB Damien Williams just opted out yesterday, their starting right tackle or whatever opted out a few days ago. Wait for it...

Meh, Damien Williams has always been mediocre. Good outside runner and receiving back but could never get the tough 3-4 yards inside on short yardage and goal-line downs that Hunt got. That position hasn't been dynamic for KC since they jettisoned Hunt.

The rookie they drafted looks to be a stud, though. He was probably going to take Williams' job anyway at some point this season.

[Blake]

Half their skill players will stay home tbh. Niners all the way


Also, hot take -- this may be the year for the Browns to finally get it together. With all the Covid kerfuffling they could conceivably make the playoffs and make a splash, especially if competitors start sitting since some of them are all fat and happy

How did the browns not make the playoffs last year with that roster

Oh right their overrated qb

[Blake]

Meh, Damien Williams has always been mediocre. Good outside runner and receiving back but could never get the tough 3-4 yards inside on short yardage and goal-line downs that Hunt got. That position hasn't been dynamic for KC since they jettisoned Hunt.

The rookie they drafted looks to be a stud, though. He was probably going to take Williams' job anyway at some point this season.

Yeah I thought Damien was just meh. The backup was better.

[FrostKing]

Half their skill players will stay home tbh. Niners all the way


Also, hot take -- this may be the year for the Browns to finally get it together. With all the Covid kerfuffling they could conceivably make the playoffs and make a splash, especially if competitors start sitting since some of them are all fat and happy
NFC West is more loaded than the entire AFC. Then the Super Bowl is a separate entity treated as a showcase for global audience.

Chiefs wouldn't survive the NFC playoffs but that's the point, they don't have to.

[spurraider21]

NFC West is more loaded than the entire AFC. Then the Super Bowl is a separate entity treated as a showcase for global audience.

Chiefs wouldn't survive the NFC playoffs but that's the point, they don't have to.
the NFC has won exactly 1 time since 2014, and that was the cinderalla story eagles

[Millennial_Messiah]

the NFC has won exactly 1 time since 2014, and that was the cinderalla story eagles

.....because QB tends to carry the day in the Super Bowl. the AFC has consistently been worse from top to bottom, but top heavy and especially top heavy at QB. Sort of like the Eastern Conference with Jordan/LeBron despite the West having much better overall teams top to bottom. But superstars tend to defeat balance on the highest playoff stages, across sports. You see it in the NBA, you see it in the NFL with QBs, and in baseball with ace pitchers.

AFC has had the better of the two QBs in every Super Bowl since the Rodgers/Big Rape SB, and even that one was debatable.

[spurraider21]

.....because QB tends to carry the day in the Super Bowl. the AFC has consistently been worse from top to bottom, but top heavy and especially top heavy at QB. Sort of like the Eastern Conference with Jordan/LeBron despite the West having much better overall teams top to bottom. But superstars tend to defeat balance on the highest playoff stages, across sports. You see it in the NBA, you see it in the NFL with QBs, and in baseball with ace pitchers.

AFC has had the better of the two QBs in every Super Bowl since the Rodgers/Big Rape SB, and even that one was debatable.
NFC has elite talent like Wilson, Rodgers, dak tbh

[Millennial_Messiah]

NFC West is more loaded than the entire AFC. Then the Super Bowl is a separate entity treated as a showcase for global audience.

Chiefs wouldn't survive the NFC playoffs but that's the point, they don't have to.

Not sure Mahomes wouldn't beat all 4 of the NFC West teams in a neutral setting (he already beat arguably the best one fwiw); he is the best QB in the league, even better than Wilson and far better than Garoppolo, Goff, or Murray (though the latter is a junior Russell Wilson in the making). The better of the two QB generally carries the day in the Super Bowl, which is why the AFC has won the majority of SB's of late.

Like spurraider alluded to, it took an all-time vintage clutch underdog performance from Nick Foles to out-duel the GOAT Tom Brady for the NFC to win even one super bowl since 2013-14.

I do agree that the NFC West is, head-and-shoulders, the best division in the NFL. The Seahawks and 49ers are Super Bowl contenders, Arizona is my break-out team of the year, and the Rams are worse but still have some good pieces in place to compete.
The NFC South has a chance to be second best if the Falcons return to old form; otherwise, Dan Quinn finally gets the guillotine (overdue honestly).
The AFC North is a solid candidate for third, pending Big Rape's return to old form (not super likely), the Browns finally not sucking and Joe Burrow's speed of rise to prominence.
The NFC North is a solid candidate for fourth, so long as the Packers' lucky record from last year wasn't a fluke, the Bears return to 2018 form and the Vikings don't implode with the loss of Diggs and a few guys on defense.
The AFC South is a candidate for fifth, though the Texans will certainly regress without Hopkins, still a bad defense and terrible coach. Hopefully O'Bummer will finally get the axe.
The NFC East is sixth IMO, with 2 teams (Cowboys and Eagles) with great talent but always seem to screw up (Cowboys) or get injured (Eagles) at the wrong time, and two teams that flat-out stink, though the Giants might improve slightly from the past couple years.
The AFC West is seventh IMO, with the Broncos and Chargers stinking up the joint with no legitimate QBs, and who knows what will happen with the Raiders.
The AFC East is dead last, and what a complete joke fest. I don't expect any team to finish with more than 8 wins. Seriously. Buffalo's 2019 was an all-time massive fluke. Trash Allen sucks. Tu'a is too green, the Jets are in turmoil and the Patriots are tanking. Just laughable.

[Millennial_Messiah]

NFC has elite talent like Wilson, Rodgers
:tu :toast :tu

, dak tbh
:lmao:lmao:lmao:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin

[FrostKing]

If there are also no post-snap penalties called on the Chiefs in those neutral site games, then I agree they would win. Like I said the Super Bowl is essentially an exhibition to sell certain star players to the global audience.

[i'm_still_beta]

So, 2015 Peyton > 2015 Cam? Well, ok.

Nick Foles Super Bowl MVP, 2015 Broncos and 2013 Seahawks shows that Qb play is important, but not that important. Defense usually prevails

[Millennial_Messiah]

If there are also no post-snap penalties called on the Chiefs in those neutral site games, then I agree they would win. Like I said the Super Bowl is essentially an exhibition to sell certain star players to the global audience.
Stop being butthurt. Holding happens on every play. When it's on the interior shoulder (i.e. closer to the center and not on the outside of the tackle) it's much more difficult for the referee to see, and thus gets called much less often.

The real problem was your cornerback screwed up his cover 3 deep outside zone assignment and instead followed the outside WR to the center of the field instead of holding true to his zone and preventing the wide open corner route to Hill (the slot receiver). Blame your cornerback for not doing his job... don't blame the refs.

[Millennial_Messiah]

So, 2015 Peyton > 2015 Cam? Well, ok.

Nick Foles Super Bowl MVP, 2015 Broncos and 2013 Seahawks shows that Qb play is important, but not that important. Defense usually prevails

Yes.

Newton in 2015 was a big-n-husky version of today's Lamar Jackson (who is small-n-lightning-fast)... a bus driver who relied heavily on TEs and backs to do most of the work in the passing game as well as his legs and beefy upper body to break through tackles to get key first downs and touchdowns. But they were far worse than their 15-1 record that year. Defense got loads of sacks in the regular season which helped out as well. But Newton's gimmicky offense was exposed badly by Denver while Peyton was very solid even in a bus driver role.

In 2013, you could argue the QBs were fairly even, though Manning had a record season which still stands on top today. But the defenses weren't even close to being even with Von Miller out injured and DeMarcus Ware still on the Cowboys. And the Denver o-line (beginning with the very first snap) and special teams completely shit the bed in that game, even though both units had been top-10 in the 2013 regular season for Denver. It was a massacre. With even or close-to-even QBs, anything can happen. But when it's a colossal mismatch like Mahomes vs. Garoppolo or Brady vs. Goff, the better QB always wins. Even Flacco was better than gimmicky Kaepernick as a pure passer.

[i'm_still_beta]

Yes.

Newton in 2015 was a big-n-husky version of today's Lamar Jackson (who is small-n-lightning-fast)... a bus driver who relied heavily on TEs and backs to do most of the work in the passing game as well as his legs and beefy upper body to break through tackles to get key first downs and touchdowns. But they were far worse than their 15-1 record that year. Defense got loads of sacks in the regular season which helped out as well. But Newton's gimmicky offense was exposed badly by Denver while Peyton was very solid even in a bus driver role.

In 2013, you could argue the QBs were fairly even, though Manning had a record season which still stands on top today. But the defenses weren't even close to being even with Von Miller out injured and DeMarcus Ware still on the Cowboys. And the Denver o-line (beginning with the very first snap) and special teams completely shit the bed in that game, even though both units had been top-10 in the 2013 regular season for Denver. It was a massacre. With even or close-to-even QBs, anything can happen. But when it's a colossal mismatch like Mahomes vs. Garoppolo or Brady vs. Goff, the better QB always wins. Even Flacco was better than gimmicky Kaepernick as a pure passer.

I disagree with you. Was Patriots offense gimmicky? Remember what Broncos did to Rodgers that year? They were all-time defensive team

[i'm_still_beta]

Maybe I'm wrong and no way I hate or dislike Chiefs (I wanted Chiefs and Mahomes to win last Super Bowl) but I think 49ers were robbed. Their defense was outplaying Chiefs offense comfortably

It was blatant holding on Jet Chip Wasp play, Garapolo was hit helmet to helmet and late (on 3rd downs). If I was Frost, I'd be pissed too. It's obvious that Chiefs win is better for NFL. Mahomes is their Jordan it looks like.

[Millennial_Messiah]

I disagree with you. Was Patriots offense gimmicky? Remember what Broncos did to Rodgers that year? They were all-time defensive team

They were the best defensive team in 2015 for sure, but that defense couldn't hold a candle to the 2013 Seattle defense. Even 2012 and large parts of 2014 Seattle. Or, the 2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs, or even the 2001-2004 Patriots.

Even still, Manning was very good -- solid -- in that postseason. Clearly the better option over Lossweiler. Manning struggled and had to come out mid-season because of his shoulder/injuries to his throwing motion, but looked sharp as a tack upon his return. Obviously the defense was the calling card of that team, like the 2013 Seahawks, but in both cases the QB was just fine.

Not a 2000 Ravens or 2002 Bucs situation where a legendary defense carried a below average C-tier quarterback to ultimate glory. Even in 2012 Flacco, Rice, Boldin, Pitta etc and that offense was legitimately good. It's really case by case.

2013 Seahawks were just a legendary all-time team (similar to the 2007 Patriots who couldn't quite win it all; maybe even better than the '07 Pats). Legendary, generational, ultra-deep defense, killer special teams, playmakers on offense, Beastmode (best RB in the game along with AP at that point in time) and a budding superstar QB in Wilson. Just a truly epic team, of course they couldn't keep them all together because the cap and injuries.

[i'm_still_beta]

They were the best defensive team in 2015 for sure, but that defense couldn't hold a candle to the 2013 Seattle defense. Even 2012 and large parts of 2014 Seattle. Or, the 2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs, or even the 2001-2004 Patriots.

Even still, Manning was very good -- solid -- in that postseason. Clearly the better option over Lossweiler. Manning struggled and had to come out mid-season because of his shoulder/injuries to his throwing motion, but looked sharp as a tack upon his return. Obviously the defense was the calling card of that team, like the 2013 Seahawks, but in both cases the QB was just fine.

Not a 2000 Ravens or 2002 Bucs situation where a legendary defense carried a below average C-tier quarterback to ultimate glory. Even in 2012 Flacco, Rice, Boldin, Pitta etc and that offense was legitimately good. It's really case by case.

2013 Seahawks were just a legendary all-time team (similar to the 2007 Patriots who couldn't quite win it all; maybe even better than the '07 Pats). Legendary, generational, ultra-deep defense, killer special teams, playmakers on offense, Beastmode (best RB in the game along with AP at that point in time) and a budding superstar QB in Wilson. Just a truly epic team, of course they couldn't keep them all together because the cap and injuries.

2013 Seahawks defense > 2015 Broncos defense. But Broncos offense gave their defense trouble with constant turnovers and inability to extend drives. 2015 Broncos definitely all-time great defense but not the best.

Broncos offense was one of the worst in the league. Peyton had 9 tds and 17 interceptions in RS. He had 2 tds and 3 turnovers, 75.4 passer rating, 5.9 Y/A in the playoffs. Peyton had bad game vs Steleers, good game vs Patriots (90.1 passer rating) amd horrible game vs Panthers. He was bad and was carried by defense. Carolina had one of the best defenses too, but Cam was one of the best players that season and deseved MVP. He played great in postseason before Broncos crushed him ... like they did it to Brady, Big Ben, Rodgers.

How can anyone say with straight face that Peyton was better than Cam in 2015?

[Will Hunting]

How can anyone say with straight face that Peyton was better than Cam in 2015?
Simple really, the person saying it was born with his umbilical cord wrapped around his neck.

[spurraider21]

:tu :toast :tu

:lmao:lmao:lmao:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin
:lol knew you'd enjoy that

[Blake]

NFC West is more loaded than the entire AFC. Then the Super Bowl is a separate entity treated as a showcase for global audience.

Chiefs wouldn't survive the NFC playoffs but that's the point, they don't have to.

Lol what are you talking about. The chiefs just beat the best team in the NFC in the playoffs

[Millennial_Messiah]

How can anyone say with straight face that Peyton was better than Cam in 2015?
I said playoffs, not regular season

The defense completely carried Carolina over Seattle, and largely shut down a blazing hot Arizona offense as well

Peyton wasn't good by any means in the 2015 regular season, but was a solid better-than-bus-driver in the playoffs. Outgunned both the Steelers (albeit not at quite full strength) and the mighty Brady.

Newton was atrocious in the Super Bowl.

[Will Hunting]

Newton was atrocious in the Super Bowl.
:lol and Peyton wasn’t? He had 1 interception and 2 fumbles just like Newton did (despite having significantly less usage and largely having a game manager role where his most important job was to not turn the ball over).

18 of the Broncos 24 points came off 1) a defensive touchdown, 2) a field goal where Denver started its drive inside the red zone after a long punt return, and 3) a touchdown and 2 point conversion after they started inside Carolina’s 5 yard line. Only 6 of its points were off drives that didn’t start in Carolina’s red zone - you’re simply revising history by claiming Peyton’s 2015 playoff run involved him outgunning anybody.

[i'm_still_beta]

I said playoffs, not regular season

The defense completely carried Carolina over Seattle, and largely shut down a blazing hot Arizona offense as well

Peyton wasn't good by any means in the 2015 regular season, but was a solid better-than-bus-driver in the playoffs. Outgunned both the Steelers (albeit not at quite full strength) and the mighty Brady.

Newton was atrocious in the Super Bowl.

Payton had only one good game against Patriots. He was mediocre against Steelers (21-37 222, 0 TDs, 0 turnovers, 74.4 passer rating, 6 Y/A; yeah, Payton showed them) and was sad to watch against Panthers.
Cam had ok game against Seahawks, pretty good game against Cardinals and bad against Broncos (missed some throws, didn't jump on the fumble). Still, that Broncos D completely outplayed Steelers, Patriots in the postseason and Packers in RS. If Broncos had even a decent QB that season, their defense could be even better. They would have more time to rest during drives and better field position.

[Will Hunting]

Payton had only one good game against Patriots. He was mediocre against Steelers (21-37 222 (tel:21-37 222), 0 TDs, 0 turnovers, 74.4 passer rating, 6 Y/A; yeah, Payton showed them) and was sad to watch against Panthers.
Cam had ok game against Seahawks, pretty good game against Cardinals and bad against Broncos (missed some throws, didn't jump on the fumble). Still, that Broncos D completely outplayed Steelers, Patriots in the postseason and Packers in RS. If Broncos had even a decent QB that season, their defense could be even better. They would have more time to rest during drives and better field position.
I don’t even think he played that well against New England. The touchdown New England scored off his retarded backwards pass was the only thing that kept the game close in the 1st half. He threw for less than 200 total yards - outside of the first drive of the game Denver’s offense was unproductive. That game should have never come down to an extra point with how banged up New England was.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Newton in 2018-present just isn't good. At all. And half the Patriots defense quit on the season already. Sad times.

[SpursforSix]

Newton in 2018-present just isn't good. At all. And half the Patriots defense quit on the season already. Sad times.

Except he had his highest completion for his career in 2018.

[Will Hunting]

Newton in 2018-present just isn't good. At all. And half the Patriots defense quit on the season already. Sad times.
I’m hoping more of them sit the season out. They’re going to be awful this year, might as well tank for Trevor.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Except he had his highest completion for his career in 2018.

Did you actually watch the games? His throwing arm was a limp biscuit after like week 8. It was sad watching him motion as if he was unleashing a 50 yard bomb only to throw a 4 yard dump off to the best receiving back in football. That's why completion % is a bogus stat.

[Millennial_Messiah]

I’m hoping more of them sit the season out. They’re going to be awful this year, might as well tank for Trevor.

Until Hightower (top 3 MLB who can also blitz), Chung, and Cannon (top 3 right tackle) decided to punt on the season, I had the Patriots at 8-8 and winning the division. Now it's looking more like 6-10. Still not enough losses to get in reach for Lawrence, sorry.

[SpursforSix]

Did you actually watch the games? His throwing arm was a limp biscuit after like week 8. It was sad watching him motion as if he was unleashing a 50 yard bomb only to throw a 4 yard dump off to the best receiving back in football. That's why completion % is a bogus stat.

LMAO. "Did you actually watch the games? ".
That's rich coming from you.

But yeah...I do know why his % was so high. He had an 86% completion rate to CMC which accounted for about 1/3 of Cam's total completions.

Completion % isn't a bogus stat at all. As long as you know how they got there.

[Millennial_Messiah]

LMAO. "Did you actually watch the games? ".
That's rich coming from you.

But yeah...I do know why his % was so high. He had an 86% completion rate to CMC which accounted for about 1/3 of Cam's total completions.

Completion % isn't a bogus stat at all. As long as you know how they got there.
Completion % is a bogus stat in a vacuum because one QB, like Ryan, Mahomes, Rodgers, Wentz etc might throw for more long distance, chunk plays that get in FG range and score TDs, at the expense of more throw-aways and deep misses downfield, while a guy like Newton or Prescott (or Jackson) throws a bunch of dump offs to the backs and TEs and gets a better completion % but the team scores less points and wins less games. Newton 2018 a prime example.

[Will Hunting]

Until Hightower (top 3 MLB who can also blitz), Chung, and Cannon (top 3 right tackle) decided to punt on the season, I had the Patriots at 8-8 and winning the division. Now it's looking more like 6-10. Still not enough losses to get in reach for Lawrence, sorry.
:lol Cannon is good and important but isn’t a top 3 tackle, that’s absurd

I think one or both McCourtys might end up sitting out, they’ve both been vocal about concerns. Their linebackers are going to be shit without Hightower Collins and Van Noy, say they lose Devin McCourty their secondary isn’t looking great either. Their defense overachieved massively last year due to flukish turnovers, it’ would have taken a step back regardless. Lose all the starters it’s lost it’s got potential to be shit.

[SpursforSix]

Completion % is a bogus stat in a vacuum because one QB, like Ryan, Mahomes, Rodgers, Wentz etc might throw for more long distance, chunk plays that get in FG range and score TDs, at the expense of more throw-aways and deep misses downfield, while a guy like Newton or Prescott (or Jackson) throws a bunch of dump offs to the backs and TEs and gets a better completion % but the team scores less points and wins less games. Newton 2018 a prime example.

I wouldn't say the stat is bogus. It's just not a reliable metric on it's own.

[Millennial_Messiah]

:lol Cannon is good and important but isn’t a top 3 tackle, that’s absurd

I think one or both McCourtys might end up sitting out, they’ve both been vocal about concerns. Their linebackers are going to be shit without Hightower Collins and Van Noy, say they lose Devin McCourty their secondary isn’t looking great either. Their defense overachieved massively last year due to flukish turnovers, it’ would have taken a step back regardless. Lose all the starters it’s lost it’s got potential to be shit.

Top 3 right tackle? Can you name 3 better right tackles? Lane Johnson, maybe the Chiefs' Mitchell Schwartz is up there, and .....Bueller? La'el Collins is probably top 5 at this point.

If one McCourty goes they both will, and they might just flat out retire given their age and the fact they're now on a likely to be rebuilding team.

They drafted some LBs mid rounds which historically has proven successful for them and they still have Bentley to play MLB but it's a young, raw core out there.

Their defense might be "bad", as in back to 2011-2013 Patriots "bad" defense, but not "bad" like some of the Dolphins teams or the 2013 Cowboys defense level bad. Last year the defense (not Brady) netted them a spiffy 12-4 record, Gilmore is the best corner in football, but the offense just kept getting worse as the season progressed.

I still say they will win some games they shouldn't due to coaching (Belichick and McDaniels are still there as well as utility guys like Edelman and White) and they are the league standard for special teams prowess (e.g., Slater isn't holding out) so I still give them a chance to win 6-8 games. Maybe even 9. We'll see.

[Will Hunting]

Top 3 right tackle? Can you name 3 better right tackles? Lane Johnson, maybe the Chiefs' Mitchell Schwartz is up there, and .....Bueller? La'el Collins is probably top 5 at this point.

If one McCourty goes they both will, and they might just flat out retire given their age and the fact they're now on a likely to be rebuilding team.

They drafted some LBs mid rounds which historically has proven successful for them and they still have Bentley to play MLB but it's a young, raw core out there.

Their defense might be "bad", as in back to 2011-2013 Patriots "bad" defense, but not "bad" like some of the Dolphins teams or the 2013 Cowboys defense level bad. Last year the defense (not Brady) netted them a spiffy 12-4 record, Gilmore is the best corner in football, but the offense just kept getting worse as the season progressed.

I still say they will win some games they shouldn't due to coaching (Belichick and McDaniels are still there as well as utility guys like Edelman and White) and they are the league standard for special teams prowess (e.g., Slater isn't holding out) so I still give them a chance to win 6-8 games. Maybe even 9. We'll see.
Just by way of example and in no particular order:

Mitchell Schwartz
Lane Johnson
Brian Bulaga
La’el Collins
Ryan Ramscyk
Orlando Brown Jr.
Brian O’Neill

all three graded better on PFF than Cannon last year, and every offensive tackle ranking article written in the last several months never mentions Cannon but mentions all of these. You’re a fucking idiot who has no idea what he’s talking about claiming Marcus Cannon is better than Ryan Ramscyk :lmao

[Millennial_Messiah]

Just by way of example and in no particular order: Mitchell Schwartz Lane Johnson Brian Bulaga La’el Collins Ryan Ramscyk Orlando Brown Jr. Brian O’Neill all three graded better on PFF than Cannon last year, and every offensive tackle ranking article written in the last several months never mentions Cannon but mentions all of these. You’re a fucking idiot who has no idea what he’s talking about claiming Marcus Cannon is better than Ryan Ramscyk :lmao PFF is cute, I'll give you Ramcyzk (who has proven to be a quality replacement for Strief who was also one of the best at RT for the Saints in his day) but all but a couple of them are significantly flawed compared to a healthy Cannon. (Though Cannon does get away with some laughable false starts.) Bulaga holds a ton, but beyond that, Rodgers said in an interview he specifically instructs him and Bakhtiari both to funnel the edge rushers inside so Rodgers can roam outside the pocket... now Bulaga is on the Chargers, big loss for Rodgers and GB IMO. Collins has improved markedly and was one of the best RTs in the league last season, but that's one season. He was just average before last season and shuffled all over the Cowboys OLine. Orlando Brown is a good run blocker and is good at funneling edge guys out to give running lanes for Jackson, but in drop-back pass protection, aka when the Ravens are losing, Brown just sucks. Falls apart, flat on his face. Watch the TEN/LAC games again; his pass protection is inferior. The Vikings notoriously have a bad OL; O'Neill might be their best piece, but it's not a very good puzzle overall. His PFF rating was probably inflated by Cook's early season performance, but, again, a better run blocker than pass protector. Too many cases of him getting side-stepped and bull-rushed in the passing game. I'll give you -1. Johnson (he's been the best for a long time now) -2. Schwartz (Mahomes almost always feels pressure from the left side and inside, but not the right side) -3. Ramcyzk (with an inconsistently healthy Armstead and retired Unger, RR is the best OLineman on the Saints) -4. Cannon (just so good for the Patriots for so many years, gets away with some false starts) -5. Collins (but his lower ranking is indicative of the fact he only had one really good year -- 2019) .

[Millennial_Messiah]

Why did I rank Murray so low? I knew I ranked him too low. :(

[Millennial_Messiah]

Ugh. Ranked Wentz and Wilson (and Watson) way too high, tbh.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Goff, Rivers too low... Allen criminally low :lmao

[Millennial_Messiah]

I will say this; I think Rodgers' season was over inflated and not indicative of his real mediocre self.

[BD24]

I will say this; I think Rodgers' season was over inflated and not indicative of his real mediocre self.
Keep huffing that copium Andy. Will need to put you on suicide watch if he ends up ringing tbh.