The D, well...it...sucks

[offset formation]

I thought these young guys would show some better ability to stay in front of their opponents than Bryn, Beli, DeMar, and to a lesser extent Rudy and Patty do, but jesus...

I knew not having Aldridge back there was going to hurt us. His defensive presence and experience is overlooked and underappreciated. But fuck man, our defense is simply atrocious. Even more so than with the vets. KJ has shown some nice things but hes not consistent, nor are White and Murray.

Long story short, I'm quite deflated about the future. Most of these guys have been in the system for a couple or three years. Pop and the Spurs system is known for their defensive systems and their player development, especially on the defensive side, first and foremost. So it all adds up to make me feel like the future is simply not bright on D. We don't have a problem scoring it doesn't appear, but we will be outscored more often than not.

Makes you really appreciate what the Big 3 brought. And even what kind of presence Aldridge has had back there for the last 6 years. And he's getting old.

In other words, I think we be fucked.

[Degoat]

I don’t blame the young guys, the problem is we don’t have much size right now. We’re playing just about everybody 1 spot above their position.

[offset formation]

109 to Bucks team that only played Giannis like 21 min in a 40 MINUTE game.

125 or whatever to a Brooklyn Nets team without DeAndre Jordan, Spencer Dinwiddy, Kyrie Irving. And of course they won have hit 175 with Durant in there too.

What the actual fuck is wrong with the D?

[Joseph Kony]

-spurs have exactly 0 3&D wing players / no real SF
-DeRozan / Forbes
-LMA / Lyes out
-terrible frontcourt defense outside of Poeltl

D has been bad all year though, nothing really new here just made worse without the Spurs starting frontcourt

[offset formation]

I don’t blame the young guys, the problem is we don’t have much size right now. We’re playing just about everybody 1 spot above their position.

On the frontcourt, yes. But our guards are average size.

And for the longest time we bitched about the inability of the gaurds to just stay in front of of their opponent.

I don't buy the undersized argument.

[Sugus]

We were absolutely undersized playing against the Bucks. But our defense is trash, I agree - though I do wonder how much blame do the players themselves have. The Spurs teams of past seasons had Messina and Udoka to help coordinate defensive and offensive schemes; our defense nowadays looks disarrayed. I think having started two of the worst defensive players in the league - DeRozan and Forbes - together all season long is a recipe for failure, no matter who you surround them with, but then again it's not about finding a scapegoat either.

I've seen the young players play good individual D multiple times through the season. Whether that can translate to a good team defense is yet to be seen, but I truly think any team with the Spurs roster's deficiencies will never be able to be a good judging parameter. Toss the corpse of Rudy Gay off the back truck, let Forbes walk, trade DeMar for a positive defender even if he isn't an offensive talent, get a real 4 and get the young guards 20-25mpg through the season, playing together. Then we can see how much chemistry and cohesiveness they have. Right now, and all through the season, Pop's lackluster coaching job at every level of game planning, scheming, rotations, and in-game management has hindered the team. I truly believe a coach like Becky could do wonders for this team - the talent is there, we saw them almost get to the second round just a season ago. There wasn't individual dropping off that justifies the worsening of this season's Spurs, but these external factors help explain it somewhat.

I also think we have the length and quickness in our guards to play a modern, switching scheme defensively. We just need bigs who both space the floor and aren't really old vets, so they can avoid being exposed and burned. Luka could be like that some day, but he's a long ways away, so I'd be looking in the trade market if I were the Spurs, or maybe looking at drafting Achiuwa in the draft. Jakob is just fine and should be resigned at all costs, he has a great developing chemistry with White and now Lonnie.

[baseline bum]

I thought these young guys would show some better ability to stay in front of their opponents than Bryn, Beli, DeMar, and to a lesser extent Rudy and Patty do, but jesus...

I knew not having Aldridge back there was going to hurt us. His defensive presence and experience is overlooked and underappreciated. But fuck man, our defense is simply atrocious. Even more so than with the vets. KG has shown some nice things but hes not consistent, nor are White and Murray.

Long story short, I'm quite deflated about the future. Most of these guys have been in the system for a couple or three years. Pop and the Spurs system is known for their defensive systems and their player development, especially on the defensive side, first and foremost. So it all adds up to make me feel like the future is simply not bright on D. We don't have a problem scoring it doesn't appear, but we will be outscored more often than not.

Makes you really appreciate what the Big 3 brought. And even what kind of presence Aldridge has had back there for the last 6 years. And he's getting old.

In other words, I think we be fucked.

Bend over, I'll give you The D

[TD 21]

The historical defensive success of the Duncan era was never about "Pop and the Spurs system"' and any future success won't be about whoever the coach is either. Now more than ever, in a homogenized league, it's about personnel.

That "culture/system" nonsense was just the narrative the ignorant media fed the masses because they didn't have a cliche American superstar to hype/sell.

They obviously need big wings in the worst way, but the offense is far more concerning going forward. I doubt all of the youth will remain intact for long, but most either already excel defensively or have the tools to at least not be liabilities. Offensively, there's no lead play maker and possibly scorer.

[offset formation]

Bend over, I'll give you The D

Spurs do it nightly. I'll be good for the next 2weeks. I'll look you up after then?

[offset formation]

We were absolutely undersized playing against the Bucks. But our defense is trash, I agree - though I do wonder how much blame do the players themselves have. The Spurs teams of past seasons had Messina and Udoka to help coordinate defensive and offensive schemes; our defense nowadays looks disarrayed. I think having started two of the worst defensive players in the league - DeRozan and Forbes - together all season long is a recipe for failure, no matter who you surround them with, but then again it's not about finding a scapegoat either.

I've seen the young players play good individual D multiple times through the season. Whether that can translate to a good team defense is yet to be seen, but I truly think any team with the Spurs roster's deficiencies will never be able to be a good judging parameter. Toss the corpse of Rudy Gay off the back truck, let Forbes walk, trade DeMar for a positive defender even if he isn't an offensive talent, get a real 4 and get the young guards 20-25mpg through the season, playing together. Then we can see how much chemistry and cohesiveness they have. Right now, and all through the season, Pop's lackluster coaching job at every level of game planning, scheming, rotations, and in-game management has hindered the team. I truly believe a coach like Becky could do wonders for this team - the talent is there, we saw them almost get to the second round just a season ago. There wasn't individual dropping off that justifies the worsening of this season's Spurs, but these external factors help explain it somewhat.

I also think we have the length and quickness in our guards to play a modern, switching scheme defensively. We just need bigs who both space the floor and aren't really old vets, so they can avoid being exposed and burned. Luka could be like that some day, but he's a long ways away, so I'd be looking in the trade market if I were the Spurs, or maybe looking at drafting Achiuwa in the draft. Jakob is just fine and should be resigned at all costs, he has a great developing chemistry with White and now Lonnie.

I agree with a bunch of this but I think we are giving too much credit to lack of experience and cohesion.

DWhite and Murray have been in the system 3+ years. Lonnie 2. Jakob 2. Metu 2. Drew 3, or 4. Bryn, well 100 yrs wouldn't overcome his shortcomings.

At some point, it's about staying in front of your man, knowing where the fuck to be and then doing those things.

I just see brain fuck after defensive inability after poor rotation after lack of quickness repeated time and time again.

Now I grant you that trust is a big part of this but man all you hear from the young guys is, "let us show you what we can do..."

Well, what I see, after an admittedly small sample, is not much to get excited about. Matter of fact, it's disconcerting if you're a fan hoping the undeniable downturn is short-lived and not steep.

[Dejounte]

This offseason will be pivotal.

[Dejounte]

I never thought Derrick would finally be aggressive on offense but he's bringing it now.

I never thought Lonnie's basketball IQ would improve on offense, but it has.

It's bound to happen for defense, too.

[offset formation]

The historical defensive success of the Duncan era was never about "Pop and the Spurs system"' and any future success won't be about whoever the coach is either. Now more than ever, in a homogenized league, it's about personnel.

That "culture/system" nonsense was just the narrative the ignorant media fed the masses because they didn't have a cliche American superstar to hype/sell.

They obviously need big wings in the worst way, but the offense is far more concerning going forward. I doubt all of the youth will remain intact for long, but most either already excel defensively or have the tools to at least not be liabilities. Offensively, there's no lead play maker and possibly scorer.

You're more concerned abt the offense? We aren't losing because we aren't scoring enough.

Now granted, we aren't efficient behind the 3pt line but the departure of DeMar alone being replaced with a more efficient 3pt shooter changes that with just one player swap. There are always vets on the open market to fill those kinds of voids too to bolster the team 3pt shooting.

And our offense ought to be behind our defense but it's not. We were in the top half of the league in offensive efficiency.

We have a 20 year old prototypical PF that should be able to score inside and outside for yrs to come as well as a SG (PG) in Walker and White that's showing an early ability to put up points.

And we have our highest draft pick in 21 years coming up this year. That should net us another young scorer because college players in the lottery tend to be better scorers than defenders.

I'm not worried about the offense much at all.

In fact the last several years have shown the trend line of increasing offensive efficiency compared to a decreasing defensive efficiency.

[offset formation]

I never thought Derrick would finally be aggressive on offense but he's bringing it now.

I never thought Lonnie's basketball IQ would improve on offense, but it has.

It's bound to happen for defense, too.

That's all I'm left with -- hope. Because in practice, there hasn't been too much to hang our hat on.

[ace3g]

Unfortunately we were set back 3 years after losing 2 of our best 3/D guys.

We need more true SFs (strong enough to guard PFs but quick enough to stay with guards) - as I've said before the most vital position in today's NBA.

Dejounte, White, Walker are great 1/2 depth but not equipped enough to be a true SF.

Keldon has the tools but we still need more depth.

[tim_duncan_fan]

And Keldon BARELY has the tools. He's 2-guard size.

[ace3g]

And Keldon BARELY has the tools. He's 2-guard size.

This is true, I do prefer my SFs to be 6'7-6'8.

[tim_duncan_fan]

This is true, I do prefer my SFs to be 6'7-6'8.

We have to get the front office out of love with small ball. This has been going on for too long.

No team needs 6 players under 6'7.

[KobesAchilles]

We have a bunch of young guys. I knew our D was gonna be shit. We gotta go back to the old Spurs philosophy. Our best defense is taking more shots than the other guys. Fast break and quick shots. We don’t have the horses for slow half court offense. We have young wild colts who don’t know the game but are athletic, quick, and can push the pace

[KobesAchilles]

We have a bunch of young guys. I knew our D was gonna be shit. We gotta go back to the old Spurs philosophy. Our best defense is taking more shots than the other guys. Fast break and quick shots. We don’t have the horses for slow half court offense. We have young wild colts who don’t know the game but are athletic, quick, and can push the pace

[LurkingSpursFan]

Dont forget Spurs lost two projected true SFs in Marcus Morris and Carroll.

[timtonymanu]

So pretty much this team is just as bad as they were before covid19. What a crazy revelation.

It sucks that covid made us extend seeing this trash team for a couple more weeks instead of just dumping all these useless players like a regular offseason would have done. Everyone wants Rudy gone but the front office was stupid enough to pay him another 14 million for next season.

[slick'81]

So pretty much this team is just as bad as they were before covid19. What a crazy revelation.

It sucks that covid made us extend seeing this trash team for a couple more weeks instead of just dumping all these useless players like a regular offseason would have done. Everyone wants Rudy gone but the front office was stupid enough to pay him another 14 million for next season.


Its like were realizng how much the spurs actually suck all over again:cry

[TimDunkem]

And Keldon BARELY has the tools. He's 2-guard size.

The Slurpers have convinced themselves that playing small means being small at every position because that's seemingly what PATFO thinks is going to work. We can't play big or small because multiple players with fatal flaws are playing positions that put them in position to fail. Examples include:

DJ should be playing PG but is best at SG because he has no PG instincts.

DDR playing SF because we have no true SF but he can't defend the position at the level needed to contend.

Rudy being a 4 at this point in his career but playing center because our options behind LMA in a best case scenario is no skill Yakob or Trey fucking Lyles.

KJ not being big enough to play the 3 full time.

Forbes playing at all. He doesn't have the skill to ever play PG or the size and athleticism to defend any position.

Patty Mills when he plays the 2. Remember when Pop refused to adjust when he would switch on to KD? :lol

DW not being athletic enough to defend the best 1s or big enough to handle the best 2s. He's an average role player at best. Reminds me of Delonte West without the crazy.

This team doesn't know how to zig or zag.

[offset formation]

So pretty much this team is just as bad as they were before covid19. What a crazy revelation.


Well clearly they were going to suck without their best player and defensive anchor on the floor. But did you expect to see our supposedly hungry young guys get beat so routinely, and so consistently to give up 124 pts to a group of scab Nets? Or 109 in **40 fucking minutes** to the Bucks?

Specifically, I had a bit of hope coming into these scrimmages to see a bit of improvement of what we saw all season with these new young kids. I heard Lonnie, and Murray specifically talking about their defensive effort and attention to defense being the most notable thing in these restart practices. I heard Rudy talking about it. Patty. Coach Becky.

And you know what we saw in reality? That was the reason for my post. Of course the D sucked. I just expected a hint of improvement, not a deterioration of it.

I advise you to go listen to their restart practice interviews, and how they were pimping their defense and attention to it as their primary focus in these scrimmages and upcoming games.

[timtonymanu]

Well clearly they were going to suck without their best player and defensive anchor on the floor. But did you expect to see our supposedly hungry young guys get beat so routinely, and so consistently to give up 124 pts to a group of scab Nets? Or 109 in **40 fucking minutes** to the Bucks?

Specifically, I had a bit of hope coming into these scrimmages to see a bit of improvement of what we saw all season with these new young kids. I heard Lonnie, and Murray specifically talking about their defensive effort and attention to defense being the most notable thing in these restart practices. I heard Rudy talking about it. Patty. Coach Becky.

And you know what we saw in reality? That was the reason for my post. Of course the D sucked. I just expected a hint of improvement, not a deterioration of it.

I advise you to go listen to their restart practice interviews, and how they were pimping their defense and attention to it as their primary focus in these scrimmages and upcoming games.

Pop will always have his guys emphasizing defense but the team still doesn't have the personnel to do it anymore. Aldridge being out hurts the defense even more. That's why I'm not surprised the team still sucks. None of their major problems were gonna go away overnight.

I'm with you though. There's no bright future with this current roster. Basically a middle level team is their ceiling. There's no clear cut franchise player on the team.

[TimDunkem]

I'm with you though. There's no bright future with this current roster. Basically a middle level team is their ceiling. There's no clear cut franchise player on the team.
Bolded for emphasis. This is the reality. Period.

[r0drig0lac]

micro ball Spurs paying dividends year after year (the league is getting smaller? we are going to get even smaller so that opponents can still have a physical advantage over our team) ... and since Kawhi Leonard ... 0 SFs on the list
we still have brilliant ideas here about using guys like Keldon, Murray and Walker as SF, where they would have 0 physical advantage, when any modern office knows that the right thing to do is select wings with any size and use these kids as guards.
This team is so structurally poorly assembled and for so long that it can't be just a coincidence.

[Trainwreck2100]

It's almost like they built their team around one player who decided to screw them.

[TimDunkem]

It's almost like they built their team around one player who decided to screw them.
This excuse will only go so far. He hasn't been on the team for awhile now and they've had time to adjust.

[Russ]

Their zone looks a little better than their man.

Let's see how the D looks once the games count.

[TimDunkem]

Their zone looks a little better than their man.

Let's see how the D looks once the games count.
I imagine just as bad or worse when other teams start trying and playing their best players big minutes.

[Dejounte]

This excuse will only go so far. He hasn't been on the team for awhile now and they've had time to adjust.

Time to adjust?

Where are the Cavs now after LeBron left many years ago?

How long did it take for Miami to look respectable again after they lost the big 3? Are they competing for a championship? Do they look like theyll compete next year?

How about OKC? Are they really in a better spot than us? Are they competing for a championship anytime soon? Especially after Paul breaks down?

Lakers after Kobe took how long to be good again?

Yall need to set the same standard for other teams first, and realize youre not being realistic.

[Dejounte]

Again... "No bright future with this current team" becomes "bright future with this current team" after the Spurs have found a franchise player.

Look at the scrubs on the Dallas team behind Luka.

I'll take our "scrubs" over their scrubs.

[timtonymanu]

Again... "No bright future with this current team" becomes "bright future with this current team" after the Spurs have found a franchise player.

Look at the scrubs on the Dallas team behind Luka.

I'll take our "scrubs" over their scrubs.

Just have to hope that franchise player will stay loyal to this team, especially being a small market. The track record of the diva stars these days doesn't give me much hope.

[Dejounte]

Just have to hope that franchise player will stay loyal to this team, especially being a small market. The track record of the diva stars these days doesn't give me much hope.

Probably why we're drafting country boys now over big city boys

[TimDunkem]

Time to adjust?

Where are the Cavs now after LeBron left many years ago?

How long did it take for Miami to look respectable again after they lost the big 3? Are they competing for a championship? Do they look like theyll compete next year?

How about OKC? Are they really in a better spot than us? Are they competing for a championship anytime soon? Especially after Paul breaks down?

Lakers after Kobe took how long to be good again?

Yall need to set the same standard for other teams first, and realize youre not being realistic.
You don't double down on stupid. This roster was poorly constructed and yet they've only gotten worse.

[DJR210]

So pretty much this team is just as bad as they were before covid19. What a crazy revelation.


Its like were realizng how much the spurs actually suck all over again:cry

:lol

[itzsoweezee]

Time to adjust?

Where are the Cavs now after LeBron left many years ago?

How long did it take for Miami to look respectable again after they lost the big 3? Are they competing for a championship? Do they look like theyll compete next year?

How about OKC? Are they really in a better spot than us? Are they competing for a championship anytime soon? Especially after Paul breaks down?

Lakers after Kobe took how long to be good again?

Yall need to set the same standard for other teams first, and realize youre not being realistic.

Are you serious? Okc and Miami are in great shape and have a much, much brighter future than the spurs. The Lakers stocked themselves with assets and were able to use them to land a superstar.

The spurs front office has been trash, rightly comparable to the shitty Cavs' front office.

[Dejounte]

Are you serious? Okc and Miami are in great shape and have a much, much brighter future than the spurs. The Lakers stocked themselves with assets and were able to use them to land a superstar.

The spurs front office has been trash, rightly comparable to the shitty Cavs' front office.

Okc is? The only reason theyre in the playoffs is because of Paul. He has one or two good seasons left. Then what? Their future is as uncertain as ours. They have draft picks and so do we. Their future depends on their draft picks panning out. Which newsflash... Isnt a certain thing. They have Shai, but is he a franchise player? Is he better than any of our young players? Sure, but so what? What is he going to lead them to?

Again, you mention the Lakers but how long did it take them to stock themselves? It took them more than a decade. I was responding to the guy who said we have had enough time. Mentioning Lakers is stupid.

Miami's big one is Jimmy Butler. Who is going to take them seriously for the next five years? Jimmy is a tier 2 star at best and likely a tier 3 one. Are they competing for a championship? Do people believe this team will ever get past the Bucks? Theyre in great shape? What happens year after year when theyre knocked out of the playoffs by a true championship team?

[TimDunkem]

Really? Poo-pooing the Heat? Bam is a legit DPOY candidate, Nunn is a steal, and Herro/Robinson are deadly shooters and solid overall. Please...Our young guys can barely do one or two things decently, individually.


Bam/Nunn/Herro/Robinson/DJJ >>>>>>> Murray/White/LW/KJ/Forbes/Sandwich

[Trainwreck2100]

This excuse will only go so far. He hasn't been on the team for awhile now and they've had time to adjust.

They need a 3 and getting a decent one of those with their current cap is difficult, btw they actually went after a decent one, but then morris screwed them.

[Dejounte]

Really? Poo-pooing the Heat? Bam is a legit DPOY candidate, Nunn is a steal, and Herro/Robinson are deadly shooters and solid overall. Please...Our young guys can barely do one or two things decently, individually.

That's great, good for them. If the goal is the championship, are these your guys? Like I said, the team that loses in the Finals is no further ahead than the team who got knocked out in the first round. I've been watching the league for too long to understand the NBA landscape changes too often to be fooled by "good, but not great" which is what your team is if it comprises of your main core consisting of Bam, Nunn, Herro, and Robinson. The true winning teams rely on their top players. Jimmy Butler is not leading that team anywhere important. Hence why I say again.... They are no closer to a ring than we are when you look at the big picture of things.

[TimDunkem]

They need a 3 and getting a decent one of those with their current cap is difficult, btw they actually went after a decent one, but then morris screwed them.
MM is best used as a 4/5 with spot minutes at the 3. Would've just been another case of a a player being misused.

[TimDunkem]

That's great, good for them. If the goal is the championship, are these your guys? Like I said, the team that loses in the Finals is no further ahead than the team who got knocked out in the first round. I've been watching the league for too long to understand the NBA landscape changes too often to be fooled by "good, but not great" which is what your team is if it comprises of your main core consisting of Bam, Nunn, Herro, and Robinson. The true winning teams rely on their top players. Jimmy Butler is not leading that team anywhere important. Hence why I say again.... They are no closer to a ring than we are when you look at the big picture of things.
Championship isn't in the cards at the moment for either teams but, yes, they are better off as those young guys already are on the fast track to being ELITE role players while ours look like they would make a great bench for an 8th seed.

As of now, they will make the playoffs and we won't. It will happen again next year if all things remain the same.

[Collins21]

That's great, good for them. If the goal is the championship, are these your guys? Like I said, the team that loses in the Finals is no further ahead than the team who got knocked out in the first round. I've been watching the league for too long to understand the NBA landscape changes too often to be fooled by "good, but not great" which is what your team is if it comprises of your main core consisting of Bam, Nunn, Herro, and Robinson. The true winning teams rely on their top players. Jimmy Butler is not leading that team anywhere important. Hence why I say again.... They are no closer to a ring than we are when you look at the big picture of things.

I wouldn't waste my breath arguing with most of these dudes man they slob everything other franchises do while shitting on the Spurs. The Heat are not some juggernaut

[Dejounte]

Championship isn't in the cards at the moment for either teams but, yes, they are better off as those young guys already are on the fast track to being ELITE role players while ours look like they would make a great bench for an 8th seed.

As of now, they will make the playoffs and we won't. It will happen again next year if all things remain the same.

Your elite role guy Bam is going to be paid as a max player next year. So now your big 2 consists of an aging Jimmy and a big man who is clearly not a star (or at least a tier 2 one). What then?

They wont have any more cap space after signing Bam to a max contract, if i recall correctly.

Future for the Heat after that? Playoff treadmill.

[TimDunkem]

Your elite role guy Bam is going to be paid as a max player next year. So now your big 2 consists of an aging Jimmy and a big man who is clearly not a star (or at least a tier 2 one). What then?

They wont have any more cap space after signing Bam to a max contract, if i recall correctly.

Future for the Heat after that? Playoff treadmill.
Meanwhile, Spurs, playoff treadmill? Not even. 9th place treadmill more than likely.

[Dejounte]

Meanwhile, Spurs, playoff treadmill? Not even. 9th place treadmill more than likely.

Not really. We have the 11th pick this year, with a small chance to get into the top 3. We have cap flexibility after we move on from DeMar and Aldridge. We dont have any big salary commitments to players that dont deserve it (or to 2nd tier star players) after those two are gone. Theres a chance for the Spurs to leap frog a lot of teams due to this flexibility.

Now if the Spurs extend DeMar to a stupid contract? Then i will be with you in saying Fuck the Spurs.

But wait, are you saying you would be content with a playoff treadmill team?

[TimDunkem]

Not really. We have the 11th pick this year, with a small chance to get into the top 3. We have cap flexibility after we move on from DeMar and Aldridge. We dont have any big salary commitments to players that dont deserve it (or to 2nd tier star players) after those two are gone. Theres a chance for the Spurs to leap frog a lot of teams due to this flexibility.

Now if the Spurs extend DeMar to a stupid contract? Then i will be with you in saying Fuck the Spurs.
Don't be surprised if they do extend DeMar because for all your so-called "flexibility" all we have to show for ever having cap space is LMA; no one wants to sign here. And it was up in the air if they would have ever won with him AND Kawhi. Also, with how bad PATFO fucked up with DJ over Brogdon and last years draft, I am not expecting much with that 11th pick, but we'll see.

[Dejounte]

Don't be surprised if they do extend DeMar because for all your so-called "flexibility" all we have to show for ever having cap space is LMA; no one wants to sign here. And it was up in the air if they would have ever won with him AND Kawhi. Also, with how bad PATFO fucked up with DJ over Brogdon and last years draft, I am not expecting much with that 11th pick, but we'll see.

Yes, we will see.

[gambit1990]

How about OKC? Are they really in a better spot than us? Are they competing for a championship anytime soon? Especially after Paul breaks down?
lol, yeah, okc is really in a better spot than the spurs. they're in a fantastic spot tbh.

[gambit1990]

watched the first half of the last scrimmage... it's not just the defense that sucks.

even if the spurs had la... the play on the court is just so disjointed and they have no rhythm or chemistry. it's about as bad as it gets.

and pop's bad rotations don't help anything either.

[TD 21]

You're more concerned abt the offense? We aren't losing because we aren't scoring enough.

Now granted, we aren't efficient behind the 3pt line but the departure of DeMar alone being replaced with a more efficient 3pt shooter changes that with just one player swap. There are always vets on the open market to fill those kinds of voids too to bolster the team 3pt shooting.

And our offense ought to be behind our defense but it's not. We were in the top half of the league in offensive efficiency.


Long story short, I'm quite deflated about the future. Most of these guys have been in the system for a couple or three years. Pop and the Spurs system is known for their defensive systems and their player development, especially on the defensive side, first and foremost. So it all adds up to make me feel like the future is simply not bright on D.

In other words, I think we be fucked.


They obviously need big wings in the worst way, but the offense is far more concerning going forward. I doubt all of the youth will remain intact for long, but most either already excel defensively or have the tools to at least not be liabilities. Offensively, there's no lead play maker and possibly scorer.



We have a 20 year old prototypical PF that should be able to score inside and outside for yrs to come as well as a SG (PG) in Walker and White that's showing an early ability to put up points.

And we have our highest draft pick in 21 years coming up this year. That should net us another young scorer because college players in the lottery tend to be better scorers than defenders.

I'm not worried about the offense much at all.

In fact the last several years have shown the trend line of increasing offensive efficiency compared to a decreasing defensive efficiency.


Samanic is a project who's ceiling as a scorer is more than likely of the ancillary variety and White doesn't have the mentality to be a go-to scorer. We'll see with Johnson, but at this writing Walker is the only one I could envision filling that role.

If they stick at 11, barring something unforeseen they're probably selecting an off ball wing of some sort.

The last several years are irrelevant because the primary personnel won't be in place going forward.

[ace3g]

Bam Adebayo is eligible for a contract extension this offseason as part of the 2017 draft class, but that is highly unlikely to happen due to the plans of the Miami Heat to preserve cap space for 2021. The Heat have interest in pursuing Giannis Antetokounmpo and Victor Oladipo

"He's not going to get a max contract in the offseason," said Brian Windhorst on his podcast (http://www.espn.com/espnradio/podcast/archive/_/id/12426375). "Even though I think he should, because the Heat are going to save money for the 2021 summer. That's a storyline that I can almost guarantee for you: Bam Adebayo will not sign a contract extension this offseason.

"It will be, 'Bam, we'll take care of you later.'"

Adebayo's cap hold in 2021 will almost certainly be less than what he would receive as part of an extension.

[Dejounte]

Lol I would love to see Bam not get a max contract. Time will tell.

[KobesAchilles]

I hope y’all enjoyed the ride gentlemen bc we aren’t making the playoffs in a very long time. We are now the worst team in our own division.

Rockets will be better than us for as long as they have their dynamic duo.
Dallas has the future best player in the world in Luka.
As shitty as the Grizzlies are run, even they had a better season. Ja is a stud. Surround him with shooters and that team will be scary... for a first round upset :lol
Pelicans have youth and a franchise player in Zion, so long as they give him the Kawhi treatment.

We are the runt of the litter, boys.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2373/1539/products/[email protected]?v=1509113159

[Dejounte]

I hope y’all enjoyed the ride gentlemen bc we aren’t making the playoffs in a very long time. We are now the worst team in our own division.

Rockets will be better than us for as long as they have their dynamic duo.
Dallas has the future best player in the world in Luka.
As shitty as the Grizzlies are run, even they had a better season. Ja is a stud. Surround him with shooters and that team will be scary... for a first round upset :lol
Pelicans have youth and a franchise player in Zion, so long as they give him the Kawhi treatment.

We are the runt of the litter, boys.

Ill bookmark this thread and come back to it in 2-3 years. Some of yall are too shortsighted to actually think things dont change quick in the NBA. Been watching the NBA too long.

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/656243143981989889/Y2eM2zaF_normal.jpg

Spurs Nation spurs_Nation
(https://twitter.com/Spurs_Nation) 40m (https://twitter.com/Spurs_Nation/status/1287880010460573697)
Bryn Forbes’ future could be coming off the Spurs’ bench [and going to another team this offseason] ift.tt/2CW9euL (https://t.co/xmDonxvDic) #SpursNation (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23SpursNation) #GoSpursGo (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23GoSpursGo)

[TimDunkem]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/656243143981989889/Y2eM2zaF_normal.jpg

Spurs Nation (https://twitter.com/Spurs_Nation)spurs (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=1680)_Nation
40m (https://twitter.com/Spurs_Nation/status/1287880010460573697)
Bryn Forbes’ future could be coming off the Spurs’ bench [and going to another team this offseason] ift.tt/2CW9euL (https://t.co/xmDonxvDic) #SpursNation (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23SpursNation) #GoSpursGo (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23GoSpursGo)
Doubt the former, but I'm praying for the latter.

[Chinook]

The Slurpers have convinced themselves that playing small means being small at every position because that's seemingly what PATFO thinks is going to work.

Not really. Pop would love to play big, but he finally realized LMA can't play with a center anymore and DeRozan needs to play four-out. Regardless, size isn't the team's problem. If they were in position all the time but just got shot over, that'd be one thing. But mentally, they aren't there, and that's Pop's fault.


We can't play big or small because multiple players with fatal flaws are playing positions that put them in position to fail.

This is true, though in terms of defense, I don't think their positions matter.


DJ should be playing PG but is best at SG because he has no PG instincts.

I mean Murray can play either guard spot from a physical standpoint. He's not undersized at the two. He was really skinny and needed to add weight when he came in the league. He's fine now. His limitations as a player are definitely there, though. He needs to become a gunner on offense so another player can takeover running the offense.


DDR playing SF because we have no true SF but he can't defend the position at the level needed to contend.

DeRozan can't defend any position at the level needed to contend. He's actually better as a forward defensively than as a guard. He's not a weak human by any means, but he is slow and doesn't rotate well. He should be on the weakest offensive player 1-4 as much as possible.


Rudy being a 4 at this point in his career but playing center because our options behind LMA in a best case scenario is no skill Yakob or Trey fucking Lyles.

Poeltl is overrated by some here, but he's a fine player, especially for a backup. Rudy plays the five because he's theoretically the best player to play five-out without LMA. Plus, he can barely keep up with fours now. The team needed to invest in their bigs over the past couple of drafts. The Milutinov pick continues to affect the team.


KJ not being big enough to play the 3 full time.

Nah, he's fine. His issue is going to be that he'll need to score enough to make opposing SFs work. In the modern NBA, his height won't hold him back any more than it does to guys like Smart, Tucker, Green or Beverly. But if he can't score well enough to dictate the match-up on the other end, then the other team will just put in more guards to negate him.


Forbes playing at all. He doesn't have the skill to ever play PG or the size and athleticism to defend any position.

True.


Patty Mills when he plays the 2. Remember when Pop refused to adjust when he would switch on to KD? :lol

The issue is that you can't just adjust that. Like that requires changing the whole gameplan. If you're going to switch (which you have to because it's the modern NBA), you're going to have mismatches when playing a smart offense. But the Spurs should have worked in different ways of helping and early bumps to where KD wouldn't get to his spots with shorter guys on him. They weren't physical enough.


DW not being athletic enough to defend the best 1s or big enough to handle the best 2s. He's an average role player at best. Reminds me of Delonte West without the crazy.

This is just weird. White's a perfectly competent defender 1-3. He's not elite against most guys, but he's strong enough to hold his position and savvy enough to stay in front of most guys. I'd certainly say that in a one-on-one sense he's quite a bit better than Murray.

Then again, you seemed to think poorly of guys like Green and Anderson too but didn't seem to make the connection that the defense sucks because those guys left.


This team doesn't know how to zig or zag.

Again true. They need to stop trying to dodge one way or another and look at their issues head on. They desperately need a defensive forward in the draft, and they simply can't keep re-signing bad defenders and giving them minutes. The age of a designated floor-spacer are long gone. If your best defenders can't shoot, teach them. If you can't teach them, get rid of them unless they are truly elite enough to still make up for it. A guy like Poeltl can work if he can play four-out. But with DMDR and Murray, that can't happen.

I don't think they should hesitate to trade their non-Walker players for an upgrade. I like every one of the young guys quite a bit outside Samanic and Metu. But they need to cycle in new young players (because you can't have a roster full of prospects). Trade someone like Murray or White, get another draft pick, and let the young guys grow more. Trade away the next set that don't seem like keepers and re-up those who do.

[tim_duncan_fan]

The Slurpers have convinced themselves that playing small means being small at every position because that's seemingly what PATFO thinks is going to work. We can't play big or small because multiple players with fatal flaws are playing positions that put them in position to fail. Examples include:

DJ should be playing PG but is best at SG because he has no PG instincts.

DDR playing SF because we have no true SF but he can't defend the position at the level needed to contend.

Rudy being a 4 at this point in his career but playing center because our options behind LMA in a best case scenario is no skill Yakob or Trey fucking Lyles.

KJ not being big enough to play the 3 full time.

Forbes playing at all. He doesn't have the skill to ever play PG or the size and athleticism to defend any position.

Patty Mills when he plays the 2. Remember when Pop refused to adjust when he would switch on to KD? :lol

DW not being athletic enough to defend the best 1s or big enough to handle the best 2s. He's an average role player at best. Reminds me of Delonte West without the crazy.

This team doesn't know how to zig or zag.
Given the situation, maybe He Who Shall Not Be Named was right to leave. The future does not look to good right now.

I'd feel better if our tall forward, Luka, looked like a player.

[Robz4000]

:lol how the hell does someone look at OKC's situation and not think they have a brighter future than the Spurs?

[TimDunkem]

Not really. Pop would love to play big, but he finally realized LMA can't play with a center anymore and DeRozan needs to play four-out. Regardless, size isn't the team's problem. If they were in position all the time but just got shot over, that'd be one thing. But mentally, they aren't there, and that's Pop's fault.



This is true, though in terms of defense, I don't think their positions matter.



I mean Murray can play either guard spot from a physical standpoint. He's not undersized at the two. He was really skinny and needed to add weight when he came in the league. He's fine now. His limitations as a player are definitely there, though. He needs to become a gunner on offense so another player can takeover running the offense.



DeRozan can't defend any position at the level needed to contend. He's actually better as a forward defensively than as a guard. He's not a weak human by any means, but he is slow and doesn't rotate well. He should be on the weakest offensive player 1-4 as much as possible.



Poeltl is overrated by some here, but he's a fine player, especially for a backup. Rudy plays the five because he's theoretically the best player to play five-out without LMA. Plus, he can barely keep up with fours now. The team needed to invest in their bigs over the past couple of drafts. The Milutinov pick continues to affect the team.



Nah, he's fine. His issue is going to be that he'll need to score enough to make opposing SFs work. In the modern NBA, his height won't hold him back any more than it does to guys like Smart, Tucker, Green or Beverly. But if he can't score well enough to dictate the match-up on the other end, then the other team will just put in more guards to negate him.



True.



The issue is that you can't just adjust that. Like that requires changing the whole gameplan. If you're going to switch (which you have to because it's the modern NBA), you're going to have mismatches when playing a smart offense. But the Spurs should have worked in different ways of helping and early bumps to where KD wouldn't get to his spots with shorter guys on him. They weren't physical enough.



This is just weird. White's a perfectly competent defender 1-3. He's not elite against most guys, but he's strong enough to hold his position and savvy enough to stay in front of most guys. I'd certainly say that in a one-on-one sense he's quite a bit better than Murray.

Then again, you seemed to think poorly of guys like Green and Anderson too but didn't seem to make the connection that the defense sucks because those guys left.



Again true. They need to stop trying to dodge one way or another and look at their issues head on. They desperately need a defensive forward in the draft, and they simply can't keep re-signing bad defenders and giving them minutes. The age of a designated floor-spacer are long gone. If your best defenders can't shoot, teach them. If you can't teach them, get rid of them unless they are truly elite enough to still make up for it. A guy like Poeltl can work if he can play four-out. But with DMDR and Murray, that can't happen.

I don't think they should hesitate to trade their non-Walker players for an upgrade. I like every one of the young guys quite a bit outside Samanic and Metu. But they need to cycle in new young players (because you can't have a roster full of prospects). Trade someone like Murray or White, get another draft pick, and let the young guys grow more. Trade away the next set that don't seem like keepers and re-up those who do.
I'm not going to quibble about where we disagree because I think we both ultimately reach the same conclusion: The team as it stands isn't going to cut it, and you have to adjust at some point; anyone who isn't Walker should be on the table.

[Chinook]

I'm not going to quibble about where we disagree because I think we both ultimately reach the same conclusion: The team as it stands isn't going to cut it, and you have to adjust at some point; anyone who isn't Walker should be on the table.

I agree there. I just think where we disagree is WHY the team is bad defensively. Even with their size, they'd be an okay defensive team if everyone went out there and gave a shit. That's why I think Pop needs to go. He just doesn't seem to get what it takes to make a team without a superstar successful. Forget contending. There's just not excuse for a non-tanking team to get blown out as often as this team does. That lack of focus and fundamentals is totally Pop's fault.

[paperboy77]

I'm going to be optimistic here and say it's just pre-season. I'm hoping they don't just roll over and actually compete for the 8 seed. The draft sux anyway. Go fucking Spurs Go!f and fuck the Lakers!

[KobesAchilles]

Ill bookmark this thread and come back to it in 2-3 years. Some of yall are too shortsighted to actually think things dont change quick in the NBA. Been watching the NBA too long.
So what a long time to you? Bc we aren’t making the playoffs this year and if you have to wait 3 more fucking years to bring back my comment then that’s 4 years of not making the playoffs. Then if we did make the playoffs that’s 5 seasons :lol

[TimDunkem]

I agree there. I just think where we disagree is WHY the team is bad defensively. Even with their size, they'd be an okay defensive team if everyone went out there and gave a shit. That's why I think Pop needs to go. He just doesn't seem to get what it takes to make a team without a superstar successful. Forget contending. There's just not excuse for a non-tanking team to get blown out as often as this team does. That lack of focus and fundamentals is totally Pop's fault.

Amen on the Pop angle. I've been a Pop troofer for a while, but the evidence is clear now that he's lost without a star keeping the train on the tracks.

[Killakobe81]

:lol how the hell does someone look at OKC's situation and not think they have a brighter future than the Spurs?

Not gonna pile on ...because i respect PATFO despite the recent issues.
But yes OKC is im better shape despite having CP3 on a bloated contract. Paul has reestablished his value and even if he stays he is developing SGS. Speaking of SGA he is like having a mixture of White and Murray in onecpkayer withvmore updide than Lonnie. And though i would take healthy Aldridge over Adams his physicality and toughness is superior. OKC also has a shit ton of picks.
To bad for OKC their state is crapola compared to Texas ...

[TimDunkem]

Not gonna pile on ...because i respect PATFO despite the recent issues.
But yes OKC is im better shape despite having CP3 on a bloated contract. Paul has reestablished his value and even if he stays he is developing SGS. Speaking of SGA he is like having a mixture of White and Murray in onecpkayer withvmore updide than Lonnie. And though i would take healthy Aldridge over Adams his physicality and toughness is superior. OKC also has a shit ton of picks.
To bad for OKC their state is crapola compared to Texas ...
Totally forgot about the picks. They can form a whole team with the amount they have. We'll see how that turns out, but how could one argue SA is in a better position?

[KobesAchilles]

Not gonna pile on ...because i respect PATFO despite the recent issues.
But yes OKC is im better shape despite having CP3 on a bloated contract. Paul has reestablished his value and even if he stays he is developing SGS. Speaking of SGA he is like having a mixture of White and Murray in onecpkayer withvmore updide than Lonnie. And though i would take healthy Aldridge over Adams his physicality and toughness is superior. OKC also has a shit ton of picks.
To bad for OKC their state is crapola compared to Texas ...
Spurs are about to come crashing down hard. Pop gone. RC gone. No real substitutes for either one. Franchise being owned/run by spoiled rich kids. The only way they can make a comeback is if they have everything upstairs in place. But with no proven GM, no proven coach, and no proven star... that’s a lot to ask of a franchise

[Dejounte]

So what a long time to you? Bc we aren’t making the playoffs this year and if you have to wait 3 more fucking years to bring back my comment then that’s 4 years of not making the playoffs. Then if we did make the playoffs that’s 5 seasons :lol

Its not just about the Spurs but the other teams you mentioned. You act like these other teams will become dynasties. All Im saying is things change so quick. Im not even saying just the Spurs. This is an example of people like you not seeing past the short term future when you make a remark of the Spurs making the playoffs. You set the bar so low.

[Dejounte]

Totally forgot about the picks. They can form a whole team with the amount they have. We'll see how that turns out, but how could one argue SA is in a better position?

So wait, you shit on the Spurs for the bad picks theyve made the past two years but think OKC is great with drafting? Wtf lmfao

[Dejounte]

For the past decade, the number of players OKC has drafted in the first round who went on to have NBA careers: THREE. And one of those three is already out of the league now.

Yall are laughable, man.

[TimDunkem]

So wait, you shit on the Spurs for the bad picks theyve made the past two years but think OKC is great with drafting? Wtf lmfao
You're reaching. I didn't say that.

Simply put: Having multiple draft picks/trade assets > not

[weeks]

:lol how the hell does someone look at OKC's situation and not think they have a brighter future than the Spurs?

i'm struggling to think of a team that doesn't

[GAustex]

Top priorities
Rid of poop
Rid of Forbes
Rid of ddr

Then you will be able to breath cause the stench will be gone

[Robz4000]

i'm struggling to think of a team that doesn't

There's several in worse positions such as the Cavs, Knicks, Bulls, Pistons, and Hornets to name a few, but the Spurs definitely aren't as well-off as a slew of other teams.

[tbdog]

I like our youth. The rest are getting old or a bad fit. Our coaching seems bad though.

[Genovaswitness]

so how many years are people gonna pull the "b-but kawhi!!!" defense of this team? there needs to be a serious overhaul and it begins at the top with poopovich.

[Seventyniner]

Ill bookmark this thread and come back to it in 2-3 years. Some of yall are too shortsighted to actually think things dont change quick in the NBA. Been watching the NBA too long.

NBA history is littered with the corpses of "teams of the future" that never became teams of the present.

This board is also littered with the (unfortunately apparently undead) corpses of cliffjumpers. The team sucks now? Sure. But that doesn't mean it will suck forever, or even necessarily for the next few years. As you say, things can change quickly in the NBA.

[offset formation]

I hope y’all enjoyed the ride gentlemen bc we aren’t making the playoffs in a very long time. We are now the worst team in our own division.

Rockets will be better than us for as long as they have their dynamic duo.
Dallas has the future best player in the world in Luka.
As shitty as the Grizzlies are run, even they had a better season. Ja is a stud. Surround him with shooters and that team will be scary... for a first round upset :lol
Pelicans have youth and a franchise player in Zion, so long as they give him the Kawhi treatment.

We are the runt of the litter, boys.

Sadly this was part of my calculation in voicing a lack of hope in our D. There's no way this team defense hangs with Morant, Jackson, and their role players or Ball, Ingram, and Zion. We seem to match up better with the Mavs...for now. But they are one more player away from challenging for chips for years to come. Rockets will self implode before long. It's what they do. But you're spot on. We'll be fighting for 3rd, 4th, or even 5th place for the foreseeable future I'm afraid.

We have to land a stud with this year's draft. The players have to develop next year. If those two things don't happen, this team's headed for a multi-year stretch out of the playoffs.

Somebody said above but we need to have a really good summer/draft/offseason. It's crucial to this organization's future.

[offset formation]

NBA history is littered with the corpses of "teams of the future" that never became teams of the present.

This board is also littered with the (unfortunately apparently undead) corpses of cliffjumpers. The team sucks now? Sure. But that doesn't mean it will suck forever, or even necessarily for the next few years. As you say, things can change quickly in the NBA.

Not sure if you're referencing me since I started the thread, but my history on the board more often than not put me in the sunshine pumper club. I've been criticized for being hopeful about the team or individual players since I've been here, much of it as an anonymous user.

But, I go back to my OP...the defense has historically been what the Spurs were known for, and what they hung their hat on. It's what Pop always prioritized. I simply cannot believe I see a Pop coached team where he stopped getting up in ppl's ass for failing to play stout D. He's gotten soft over the last couple of years. ((This has been crystal clear since DeMar got here and he got away with chucking the ball into the stands, lying on the floor, not hustling, etc. I think he felt sorry for DD since he picked him to replace Kawhi and felt like he needed to bend to DD's ways)).

Regardless, I'm not that negative nancy type. There are plenty on the board. You know who they are. Which should make it all the worse that even I have seen troubling signs. The D ought to be ahead of the offense. It's not.

And often times, it's showing that it's talent or ability (basketball IQ even) based, moreso than experience or physical limitations. Don't forget, these young players themselves were bragging about how we'd see better play once they got their chance. That defense would be their focus. That effort would show. In fact, I'm more dissuaded by their showing than that of the older, slower vets.

I hope I'm wrong but it doesn't seem to have an easy solution. Coaching seems off. Talent seems off.

[KobesAchilles]

Its not just about the Spurs but the other teams you mentioned. You act like these other teams will become dynasties. All Im saying is things change so quick. Im not even saying just the Spurs. This is an example of people like you not seeing past the short term future when you make a remark of the Spurs making the playoffs. You set the bar so low.
Im not saying they’re contenders or anything but short of an injury it’s hard to argue that the Spurs are better positioned than anybody in their own division. Short term or long term. Short term, Harden, Westbrook, and Luka are MVP level players, long term too. Short term Zion is a beast of a player. Long term, he’s going to get better. Short term, the Grizzlies are currently better than the Spurs and seemed to have found there man in Ja. Long term, I don’t know bc they aren’t a well run organization. But I’ll tell you one thing, it’s disheartening to see that shit run place in Memphis do better than us this year when we supposedly had all our ducks in a row. But if you want to bring long term into this brother then you’re the one short minded not me

We lost too much talent to think long term. We lost every assistant coach we had except Becky. We lost Marks to the Nets. We lost Peter Holt. These are big people to lose for any corporation and now we have to replace them on the fly. And when you start to do that, that’s when organizational problems start to emerge. Bc we will have a rookie unproven coach to replace a legend. We have an unproven GM who really wasn’t our first choice to begin with. And some spoiled brats who know nothin about owning a team running things. And that’s before we even get to the players who I’m not exactly sold on. We have good young players but time will tell if they can become great players. And now we have to cross our fingers every time we draft that we don’t end up a fool.

You say the bar is low. But I say that it’s pretty high when you factor in all these things. Hell the Lakers went 6 years without making the playoffs in a storied franchise, with models and movie stars, perfect weather, and a city that every player wants to live in. But even with all those perks they couldn’t overcome their bad organizational structure. Spurs, in my estimation, are on the same kind of track to end up like that

[Down Under]

Can't blame the young guys IMO. The bleeding starts when 2 of Forbes, DeRozan or Eubanks have come in.

[DeRozan m8]

Team sucks.

It is what it is

[slick'81]

Can we have a great offseason if mills,forbes,lma,derozan&gay all return?

[tbdog]

Not Forbes and I say Gay as well. You can live with Mills for another year. Upgrading our 4 is a must.

[ZeusWillJudge]

I don’t blame the young guys, the problem is we don’t have much size right now. We’re playing just about everybody 1 spot above their position.


:pop: "We may be small, but at least we're slow."


You can't be a dictator and avoid responsibility for your fucked up roster.

[GAustex]

Yep
Not only is poop a bad coach
he is a bad gm
Holts need to send poop into politics

[Seventyniner]

Not sure if you're referencing me since I started the thread, but my history on the board more often than not put me in the sunshine pumper club. I've been criticized for being hopeful about the team or individual players since I've been here, much of it as an anonymous user.

But, I go back to my OP...the defense has historically been what the Spurs were known for, and what they hung their hat on. It's what Pop always prioritized. I simply cannot believe I see a Pop coached team where he stopped getting up in ppl's ass for failing to play stout D. He's gotten soft over the last couple of years. ((This has been crystal clear since DeMar got here and he got away with chucking the ball into the stands, lying on the floor, not hustling, etc. I think he felt sorry for DD since he picked him to replace Kawhi and felt like he needed to bend to DD's ways)).

Regardless, I'm not that negative nancy type. There are plenty on the board. You know who they are. Which should make it all the worse that even I have seen troubling signs. The D ought to be ahead of the offense. It's not.

And often times, it's showing that it's talent or ability (basketball IQ even) based, moreso than experience or physical limitations. Don't forget, these young players themselves were bragging about how we'd see better play once they got their chance. That defense would be their focus. That effort would show. In fact, I'm more dissuaded by their showing than that of the older, slower vets.

I hope I'm wrong but it doesn't seem to have an easy solution. Coaching seems off. Talent seems off.

No, I wasn't referring to you at all. Your criticisms are valid.

I just don't see a reason to project pessimism more than a year or two into the future, especially when most of the team's big contracts roll off after next season.

[Killakobe81]

I like our youth. The rest are getting old or a bad fit. Our coaching seems bad though.

Murray White and Walker have potentail but the silly pursuit of the playoffs ...has stifled their development and ability to scout if they are legit foundational (doubt any of them are cornerstone) pieces of a future contender.
If any of you are saying you know for sure its homerism. But by going with vets it will take next year to find out... when maybe you lose a few more games early but you would be closer to those answers especially on defense.
I think media and front office dont give true hardcore fans the credit to be patient eith young players. Pre shaqobe post Showtime Lakers didnt win shit but i enjoyed Peeler Van Exel and Eddie jones. They were young fun teams ...
Spurs could be like that develop talent and then trade it for a star ...or even better hit on another Kaehi...
He really did fuck yall over ...

[daslicer]

When it comes to rebuilding I hope the Spurs don't end up with small guard as their best player ala Portland with Lillard or the Hornets with Kemba. Over 90 percent of the time when a team wins a title their best player is 6'6 or above. If you look at all the contenders their best player is taller than 6'6. I know I'm height biased but in the last 40 years there has only been 3 guys who have won a title below that height being the best player on their team and those guys were Wade in '06, Curry in '15, Isiah Thomas '89 and '90.

[tbdog]

Murray White and Walker have potentail but the silly pursuit of the playoffs ...has stifled their development and ability to scout if they are legit foundational (doubt any of them are cornerstone) pieces of a future contender.
If any of you are saying you know for sure its homerism. But by going with vets it will take next year to find out... when maybe you lose a few more games early but you would be closer to those answers especially on defense.
I think media and front office dont give true hardcore fans the credit to be patient eith young players. Pre shaqobe post Showtime Lakers didnt win shit but i enjoyed Peeler Van Exel and Eddie jones. They were young fun teams ...
Spurs could be like that develop talent and then trade it for a star ...or even better hit on another Kaehi...
He really did fuck yall over ...

I am pretty sure Spurs did shop DD and LMA to go full youth, but they never received the package. My disappointment was playing Beli way to much (probably an over reaction for losing Bertans). There is no excuse for playing Forbes. Pop seemed so scared the lack of shooters would be worse.

[Thomas82]

It would be nice if we add some size in the upcoming draft. In my opinion, we need a true rim protector in the worst way. I would love to see how James Wiseman would develop under the tutelage of David Robinson and Tim Duncan.

[offset formation]

Bump.

On pace for a 42 pt quarter from the Kings

[Dejounte]

I hope y’all enjoyed the ride gentlemen bc we aren’t making the playoffs in a very long time. We are now the worst team in our own division.

Rockets will be better than us for as long as they have their dynamic duo.
Dallas has the future best player in the world in Luka.
As shitty as the Grizzlies are run, even they had a better season. Ja is a stud. Surround him with shooters and that team will be scary... for a first round upset :lol
Pelicans have youth and a franchise player in Zion, so long as they give him the Kawhi treatment.

We are the runt of the litter, boys.


Ill bookmark this thread and come back to it in 2-3 years. Some of yall are too shortsighted to actually think things dont change quick in the NBA. Been watching the NBA too long.


LOLLLLLLL

Morey stepped down. He saw it's a shitshow with the new owner.

They're a fucking mess. With their "dynamic duo" or without. This is like Paul George + Westbrook again. Big pretenders. The only direction they're going is down.

[KobesAchilles]

LOLLLLLLL

Morey stepped down. He saw it's a shitshow with the new owner.

They're a fucking mess. With their "dynamic duo" or without. This is like Paul George + Westbrook again. Big pretenders. The only direction they're going is down.

I never said they would win the championship only that they will be better than us. It's too early to be tooting your horn there pal. It could be argued that Morey was the reason why they didn't take the next step. It's not as if we are on an upward trend. Both teams are spiraling, but they started off at a higher point than us.

But if the Rockets have a worse record than us in 2 years I will happily eat crow

[Dejounte]

I never said they would win the championship only that they will be better than us. It's too early to be tooting your horn there pal. It could be argued that Morey was the reason why they didn't take the next step. It's not as if we are on an upward trend. Both teams are spiraling, but they started off at a higher point than us.

But if the Rockets have a worse record than us in 2 years I will happily eat crow

Morey is the GM most unappeased Spurs fans wish they had. The current Spurs are a model of inaction, while Morey's a GM of action. The Spurs had the #1 winning record in the NBA since 2007, with Morey's Rockets being 2nd. It's the classic turtle vs rabbit. How could the Spurs not be on an upward trend? They have all their picks, while the Rockets have none for several years. The Spurs have young talent, the Rockets don't. Westbrook is breaking down and is taking much of the cap, he'll handicap that team from improving for years to come.

"A higher point" doesn't matter. Ten years from now, people don't remember your team when you get knocked out of the WCF, or get knocked out of the semifinals round like this year's Rockets. It's moot point whenever that's brought up. Every team is just like the next when you don't win the Finals. Things change quickly, just like that.

[KobesAchilles]

Morey is the GM most unappeased Spurs fans wish they had. The current Spurs are a model of inaction, while Morey's a GM of action. The Spurs had the #1 winning record in the NBA since 2007, with Morey's Rockets being 2nd. It's the classic turtle vs rabbit. How could the Spurs not be on an upward trend? They have all their picks, while the Rockets have none for several years. The Spurs have young talent, the Rockets don't. Westbrook is breaking down and is taking much of the cap, he'll handicap that team from improving for years to come.

"A higher point" doesn't matter. Ten years from now, people don't remember your team when you get knocked out of the WCF, or get knocked out of the semifinals round like this year's Rockets. It's moot point whenever that's brought up. Every team is just like the next when you don't win the Finals. Things change quickly, just like that.

It sounds good, but we just have different perspectives. I mean if you're going 10 whole years from now then yes I should hope we are at an upward trend. I don't put that much stock into the youth. I hope they develop but nothing I saw last year really gives me any hope. We would need a top 3 pick for me to feel good about our future. Do you expect us to make the playoffs next year? The year after that? Well we better bc that's how you build a losing culture and wind up like Minn, or Sacto. Hell not even Lebron could instantly change the Lakers losing ass culture.

All of our eggs were in the Kawhi basket and they broke
Moved em to Demar basket and they broke
The DJ basket and they broke
People were hopping the Lonnie bandwagon saying he was the future and our Dwayne Wade... jury is still out but the eggs are cracking
Now we are all aboard the Mustang Express (myself included) here's hoping. Fingers crossed

[BackHome]

I said this before and I will say it again the chances of us getting another title in our lifetime are slim to none. And if we keep drafting in the 11 to 18 range we’ll it will be more of the “None” vs. the Slim. We need to tank in order to get that Franchise changing player like we did for Timmy and Duncan.

[Sugus]

It sounds good, but we just have different perspectives. I mean if you're going 10 whole years from now then yes I should hope we are at an upward trend. I don't put that much stock into the youth. I hope they develop but nothing I saw last year really gives me any hope. We would need a top 3 pick for me to feel good about our future. Do you expect us to make the playoffs next year? The year after that? Well we better bc that's how you build a losing culture and wind up like Minn, or Sacto. Hell not even Lebron could instantly change the Lakers losing ass culture.

All of our eggs were in the Kawhi basket and they broke
Moved em to Demar basket and they broke
The DJ basket and they broke
People were hopping the Lonnie bandwagon saying he was the future and our Dwayne Wade... jury is still out but the eggs are cracking
Now we are all aboard the Mustang Express (myself included) here's hoping. Fingers crossed

Well, if we suck enough as a team, we're bound to have a top 3 pick somewhere in those 10 years, right? I'm not on the "our youth will carry us to a chip" bandwagon yet, either, but there's no reason to be more optimistic about the Rockettes' future than the Spurs', tbh. Especially after they've lost Morey. And culture is something the Spurs (yet) don't have to worry about, they can afford to miss the playoffs a couple years and ride on the coattails of recent success before it begins to crumble down, IMO. With the Spurs' drafting department, I'm not too worried.

Also, please link those takes of Lonnie being the next Dwade, lmao. You can be excited about a player and still be realistic about their ceilings... All I'm saying is, there will come many "baskets" in the future. Many "chips" that could be molded into special players. I trust the Spurs more than I do other teams of realizing their players' potential, and that should eventually lead into at least a winning team that can hold its own in the playoffs.


I said this before and I will say it again the chances of us getting another title in our lifetime are slim to none. And if we keep drafting in the 11 to 18 range we’ll it will be more of the “None” vs. the Slim. We need to tank in order to get that Franchise changing player like we did for Timmy and Duncan.

This is way too reactionary. I might be underestimating the mean of SpursTalk users' ages, but that's like another 50 years of so away. Yeah, our chances to see a title in that window might be worse than the Lakers or Warriors, but I'd say we have quite better odds than most teams out there. Despite not having a true superstar on the team, the culture is good, the coaching (though puzzling this season) is still good, especially the off-the-court stuff like development and shooting coaches; we've got all our picks and an excellent drafting record using them, and all the time in the world to aim for that next Timmy/DRob/Whomever. Now, if you said that about the Timberwolves, I'd be inclined to agree, but it's too far a debbie-downer take, imo.

[Dejounte]

I said this before and I will say it again the chances of us getting another title in our lifetime are slim to none. And if we keep drafting in the 11 to 18 range we’ll it will be more of the “None” vs. the Slim. We need to tank in order to get that Franchise changing player like we did for Timmy and Duncan.

Miami got into the Finals without a top 10 pick. Sure, they had Jimmy Butler come to them but it isn't like Jimmy is a special player.

LeBron's reign won't be long. After he's gone, then it's anybody's ball game.

[TD 21]

Miami is a destination city, Butler is a top 15 player and the "bubble" eliminated home court advantage (granted, they beat both the Bucks and to a lesser extent Celtics handily enough that it's reasonable to conclude that it wouldn't have swung either series, but still).

No path is likely to lead to contention, especially in a non glamour market, but it's inarguable that you almost always need elite talent to win a championship and the likelihood of finding it is greater the higher up you pick.

James will eventually age out, but superstars congregating in glamour markets more than likely won't and developing a bunch of mid-late picks into good role players isn't going to cut it against those teams.

[Dejounte]

I never said they would win the championship only that they will be better than us. It's too early to be tooting your horn there pal. It could be argued that Morey was the reason why they didn't take the next step. It's not as if we are on an upward trend. Both teams are spiraling, but they started off at a higher point than us.

But if the Rockets have a worse record than us in 2 years I will happily eat crow

Is it too early still?

Time and time again I say this same line: THINGS CHANGE QUICK IN THE NBA.

Don't look at seasons in a vacuum.

Don't be shortsighted.

Don't be a cliff jumper.

Don't fall for the hype of these teams or young, flashy players who sizzle fast. It happens EVERY TIME.

[timtonymanu]

:lol the Bear
:lol Haren
:lol no D
:lol poor man's Ginobili
:lol can't play with other superstars

[KobesAchilles]

Anyway we could get PJ?