Grades: Spurs vs. Sixers - Aug. 3, 2020

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-san-antonio-spurs-philadelphia-76ers-august-3-2020/

Painful loss but positive developments :tu

[DAF86]

This team has has some serious issues closing games. It's the team that lost more double digits leads and it's last minutes play seems to be pretty abysmal by the eye test. I wonder if the numbers corroborate this feeling.

[Killakobe81]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-san-antonio-spurs-philadelphia-76ers-august-3-2020/

Painful loss but positive developments :tu

DDR telling Spurstalk haters shhhh
Ditto Pop and Rudy Gay lol

[DAF86]

DDR telling Spurstalk haters shhhh

How? What has DeRozan been doing differently? Ever since he got to the Spurs he has been the ultimate professional and has played some of the best ball of his career. The problem is that, even with all that, we Spurs fans know what championship basketball looks like and sadly his game isn't it.


Ditto Pop and Rudy Gay lol

Gay was always liked but most of ST. It's funny you say this because he is probably playing the worst ball he has played since he got here, tbh.

And Pop is shushing us by doing exactly what we have been asking all season long? :lol

[phxspurfan]

Murray lost us the game by going away from DeRozan in the last meaningful possession, chucking a flat footed runner, then hitting the ball out of bounds on the same play

Not to mention that Milton 3 was a play designed to play off of Murray’s low IQ defensive over aggressiveness. Watch it again, and see how the guy simply fakes a pass down low to get Murray to bite, freeing up his man for an open shot. I bet Brett Brown designed that play to take advantage of Murray

[Collins21]

How? What has DeRozan been doing differently? Ever since he got to the Spurs he has been the ultimate professional and has played some of the best ball of his career. The problem is that, even with all that, we Spurs fans know what championship basketball looks like and sadly his game isn't it.



Gay was always liked but most of ST. It's funny you say this because he is probably playing the worst ball he has played since he got here, tbh.

And Pop is shushing us by doing exactly what we have been asking all season long? :lol

This is not true you had a contingent of people saying Simmons was a better basketball player than Gay.

[blizz]

You really need to get away from the common “good guys” and “stanza” buzz words. It smacks of poor writing and common sports writer lingo. Be better.

[ZeusWillJudge]

DDR telling Spurstalk haters shhhh
Ditto Pop and Rudy Gay lol


Awesome sig picture!


Pop? He fucked up an entire season, and then got better rotations forced on him by a disease.

Gay is just an older version of the good player he once was. The brain and desire are still there. But if he had to go 40 games instead of 8, he'd be gassed. Love the guy, but he's good for bursts. Nice to have, but not something to build a team on.

Sadly, if they had Trey Lyles they win this game. They still don't contend for anything, but they win this game.

[Longlonglongtimelurk]

You really need to get away from the common “good guys” and “stanza” buzz words. It smacks of poor writing and common sports writer lingo. Be better.
What a shit comment. A fat, unhappy whiny guy right here if I could ever pick one.

[LakerHater]

Murray lost us the game by going away from DeRozan in the last meaningful possession, chucking a flat footed runner, then hitting the ball out of bounds on the same play EXACTLY!!! DeMar was Fuckin Hot & Murray didnt get the ball in his hands! :bang

[tbdog]

Murray must get the ball to DD. He kinda tried but DD was denied and then Murray waved it off. This is the basics of a PG. Get the ball over the line quickly. Get the ball to your star.

[RC_Drunkford]

Murray definitely made 2 key mistakes. And DeRozan should've shot the pull up instead of giving it to Poeltl. Poeltl should shut his ass up demanding a starting role. The guy fouls like a rookie, has 0 offensive game and can't guard big men. He's soft as baby shit. People here criticize Aldridge all the time, but boy is Jakob a softie. If we had LA we'd win without a problem

[ragas]

Murray definitely made 2 key mistakes. And DeRozan should've shot the pull up instead of giving it to Poeltl. Poeltl should shut his ass up demanding a starting role. The guy fouls like a rookie, has 0 offensive game and can't guard big men. He's soft as baby shit. People here criticize Aldridge all the time, but boy is Jakob a softie. If we had LA we'd win without a problem

LMA can’t play 2 minutes with the young Spurs pace. And he‘s only on the team because they couldn’t find a trade for him.

[RC_Drunkford]

LMA can’t play 2 minutes with the young Spurs pace. And he‘s only on the team because they couldn’t find a trade for him.

Poeltl can't play 2 minutes with them neither cause he only needs 90 seconds to pick up 2 fouls like we saw yesterday

[ragas]

Poeltl can't play 2 minutes with them neither cause he only needs 90 seconds to pick up 2 fouls like we saw yesterday

He had the same problems at the start of the season. He'll get better at avoiding those fouls. LMA won't get faster ;-)
Poeltl is far from perfect, but Spurs fans should give him the same chances like the other young players.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Murray lost us the game by going away from DeRozan in the last meaningful possession, chucking a flat footed runner, then hitting the ball out of bounds on the same play



This infuriated me. Especially in light of how hot DeMar has been in every 4Q in the bubble

[KobesAchilles]

Murray plays like he has no idea how to play basketball at the end of games. He calls off others and puts up horrible shots, he pushes the pace instead of slowing down and dribbling out some clock, he makes stupid decisions on defense. Like what went through his head? "Embiid could tie the game. I'm going to double off of the 76ers best shooter and give up a potential game winner so Embiid doesn't tie the game."

[Play Boban]

Pop should kneel deeper tbh

[Dejounte]

I really hope Murray got his ass chewed out

[weeks]

What a shit comment. A fat, unhappy whiny guy right here if I could ever pick one.

Nah he's right. Amateur writing is fine as long as it's not formulaic

[John B]

It’s a disappointing loss especially that we could’ve closed the gap to one game, with Memphis losing to Pelicans last night. But the last two wins were pretty awesome also. We win some, we lose some. I would’ve attack the basket if I were Demar. Poeltl wasn’t playing well, and it just didn’t look right passing to him. Demar should’ve bait a foul. Poeltl needs to play out of foul trouble. What’s wrong with him lately? He doesn’t seem to be in sync yet. I love Keldon, Quinndarry. Dang they’re bullish. We have defensive minded players bitches! And who can hit from outside. They’re just gonna get better. Let’s get the next one. Go Spurs Go!

[Sugus]

One thing that hasn't been said about Dejounte, and the thing that actually worries me about him besides some bonehead mistakes, is that he hasn't really found a balance between calling his own number to score, and distributing the ball or getting it to his teammates in places effective for them to immediately score. The best PGs in the league can draw defenders in with their gravity on the drive, or stretch out defenses with long-range shooting threats, and thread the needle to make it easier for their teammates to make their plays. Far too often, Murray gets too excited after a midrange swish or two, and starts getting into his own head - tunnel-visioning and forcing shots until he inevitably stops making them, with little regard as to what the rest of the team is doing or who's open, etc. I think it was the game against the Grizzlies, he attempted - and made - three consecutive midrange shots all by himself, before missing a fourth one - that's not the way a PG should be playing, unless the team around you is gassed or trash, or the game calls for you to take over like Lillard does. The most DJ makes in terms of setting up teammates, is making an entry pass or a simple pass to someone at the 3pt line like Lonnie or Rudy, who then have to handle the playmaking whilst Murray slips to the corner. Ain't gonna cut it.

There's definitely a part of this that is learnt with time and experience, and good coaching, but I fear there's also a part that requires court vision and awareness, especially to pass out to open shooters, which DJ hasn't displayed much of so far. Hopefully, since last off-season he made shooting a focus (and got noticeably better at it on every single area) he can work on being a "true PG" this off-season. Or not, take the other route and morph into more of a 2-guard or SG, which isn't so far from what he's doing right now when playing with White, and it'd actually compliment his eagerness to shoot. But he needs to be automatic, at least in the willingness to shoot, from 3 for that to be a possibility. And I fear Pop and the FO aren't even considering this possibility, and might be trying too hard to fit a square peg into a round hole. Time will tell.

Beyond that, the one player I was unimpressed with was Lonnie. I usually love his effort and things he does, but he had a really quiet game, besides a dunk and another one that didn't count and the occasional corner 3. Again, I think Lonnie in particular would be much better off besides a PG that can actually find him and feed off him - DJ hasn't been that player so far. And it's also on Pop to an extent, at this point you have to wonder why the hell is he so hell-bent on not drawing plays for Lonnie...? At least an out-of-bounds hammer play, or something that requires Walker to ball-handle and playmake his way to the hoop. Right now, the most involvement Lonnie has on offense is getting a weak pass from Murray and having to charge at the rim, where -unlike Keldon- he doesn't have that natural instinct to go and draw the foul or make the layup through contact. He isn't that kind of player, and the coaches need to figure out what kind of player he is, and feed into his strengths. I think in a vacuum, he's the second best outside shooter on the young core besides White, and I actually like Walker's shooting form over White's, it's just that the former hasn't gotten the same amount of opportunities as the latter to display it. Time will tell how he grows his game to fit into the team, especially as the vets start leaving/are traded/have their roles reduced in favor of the youngings.

[Dejounte]

One thing that hasn't been said about Dejounte, and the thing that actually worries me about him besides some bonehead mistakes, is that he hasn't really found a balance between calling his own number to score, and distributing the ball or getting it to his teammates in places effective for them to immediately score. The best PGs in the league can draw defenders in with their gravity on the drive, or stretch out defenses with long-range shooting threats, and thread the needle to make it easier for their teammates to make their plays. Far too often, Murray gets too excited after a midrange swish or two, and starts getting into his own head - tunnel-visioning and forcing shots until he inevitably stops making them, with little regard as to what the rest of the team is doing or who's open, etc. I think it was the game against the Grizzlies, he attempted - and made - three consecutive midrange shots all by himself, before missing a fourth one - that's not the way a PG should be playing, unless the team around you is gassed or trash, or the game calls for you to take over like Lillard does. The most DJ makes in terms of setting up teammates, is making an entry pass or a simple pass to someone at the 3pt line like Lonnie or Rudy, who then have to handle the playmaking whilst Murray slips to the corner. Ain't gonna cut it.

There's definitely a part of this that is learnt with time and experience, and good coaching, but I fear there's also a part that requires court vision and awareness, especially to pass out to open shooters, which DJ hasn't displayed much of so far. Hopefully, since last off-season he made shooting a focus (and got noticeably better at it on every single area) he can work on being a "true PG" this off-season. Or not, take the other route and morph into more of a 2-guard or SG, which isn't so far from what he's doing right now when playing with White, and it'd actually compliment his eagerness to shoot. But he needs to be automatic, at least in the willingness to shoot, from 3 for that to be a possibility. And I fear Pop and the FO aren't even considering this possibility, and might be trying too hard to fit a square peg into a round hole. Time will tell.

Beyond that, the one player I was unimpressed with was Lonnie. I usually love his effort and things he does, but he had a really quiet game, besides a dunk and another one that didn't count and the occasional corner 3. Again, I think Lonnie in particular would be much better off besides a PG that can actually find him and feed off him - DJ hasn't been that player so far. And it's also on Pop to an extent, at this point you have to wonder why the hell is he so hell-bent on not drawing plays for Lonnie...? At least an out-of-bounds hammer play, or something that requires Walker to ball-handle and playmake his way to the hoop. Right now, the most involvement Lonnie has on offense is getting a weak pass from Murray and having to charge at the rim, where -unlike Keldon- he doesn't have that natural instinct to go and draw the foul or make the layup through contact. He isn't that kind of player, and the coaches need to figure out what kind of player he is, and feed into his strengths. I think in a vacuum, he's the second best outside shooter on the young core besides White, and I actually like Walker's shooting form over White's, it's just that the former hasn't gotten the same amount of opportunities as the latter to display it. Time will tell how he grows his game to fit into the team, especially as the vets start leaving/are traded/have their roles reduced in favor of the youngings.

Lonnie Walker can try to be a more athletic version of Rip Hamilton since he was a player who didnt like contact either.

[Dejounte]

There was much more "beautiful game" in the first two games. Too much ISO, not enough ball movement in this game. I hated it.

[Sugus]

There was much more "beautiful game" in the first two games. Too much ISO, not enough ball movement in this game. I hated it.

Agreed. For as much as DeRozan helps the team by scoring at a very efficient clip, and bails them out, I didn't like him being so present on offense early on. His best role, IMO, is as a distributor, as we saw in the Grizzlies game, with the ability to take over in the 4th, where the rest of the young guys aren't just yet ready to handle the scoring by themselves. Win or lose, we mustn't forget these games are primarily aimed at developing the young players, and with DeMar being so ball dominant when he's scoring, it just takes away opportunities from them - Lonnie in particular I feel suffered from the lack of touches and passes in general. I think the two early wins kind of shifted the team's mentality away from develompent and into a kind of "hey, we might actually make the POs", which is good to have but not if it'll come at the expense of having the same old vets taking over the games. We've saw that all season long, and it's failed all season long.

Also, I like the Rip Hamilton comp, but tbh I don't think it's set in stone yet that Lonnie will always be a player that avoids contact, like for example Lonzo Ball is right now. The way I see it, it's more a combination of his own developing, but lacking, playmaking skills, opportunities, and the fact that the roster construction necessitates someone constantly standing in the corner, to provide a modicum of spacing, since both DJ and DeMar (and LMA when he's on the team) operate in the midrange exclusively. If you had for example Curry on the 1, or Lillard or whomever, someone who could stretch the defense and actually be a threat from deep, I think Lonnie would have a lot more room to cut to the basket, be ready for passes, penetrate, and just look for contact in general. Walker seems to be a fan of the pullup midrange jumpshot as well, which is something the current Spurs don't need but might be much more well received on other, more modern offenses that rely on the 3-ball and could mix it up with midrange shooting. This is the reason I'm not too quick to judge how the young players perform these 8+ games; the roster is just badly constructed on multiple fronts. I hope the FO picks it up in the offseason, because there HAS to be some moves made. Even if next season is a tanking job, you can at least help compliment your young players so they can develop properly whilst losing.

[Seventyniner]

I don't recall seeing a game before where everyone was between -4 and +4 in +/-.

[Dhbsr555]

Does this loss hurts yes it cuts deep but the way our young guys fought back is a positive

[phxspurfan]

Murray must get the ball to DD. He kinda tried but DD was denied and then Murray waved it off. This is the basics of a PG. Get the ball over the line quickly. Get the ball to your star.

This. Getting the ball at the right time in the right place where your scorers can do damage. That's what advanced PGs (Kidd, CP3, even Westbrook) do. Murray doesn't seem to have that IQ, at least yet.

[TDomination]

Funny how our lower 2 picks are not only playing but making an impact but our 19th pick can’t even hit the court.

[ZeusWillJudge]

This. Getting the ball at the right time in the right place where your scorers can do damage. That's what advanced PGs (Kidd, CP3, even Westbrook) do. Murray doesn't seem to have that IQ, at least yet.


That's because Murray isn't a PG. Not his fault. Just another stupid personnel decision by Pop. Free that young man up from PG duties, and he's immediately better on both ends of the floor.

The Spurs haven't had a PG in several years. White isn't a natural PG, but he thinks quicker than Murray. Fred VanVleet is available. He would make a huge difference on this team.

[phxspurfan]

That's because Murray isn't a PG. Not his fault. Just another stupid personnel decision by Pop. Free that young man up from PG duties, and he's immediately better on both ends of the floor.

The Spurs haven't had a PG in several years. White isn't a natural PG, but he thinks quicker than Murray. Fred VanVleet is available. He would make a huge difference on this team.

Fred is going to be a sought after free agent with several big market choices (Lakers...). Doubt he chooses to move down to San Anton’

[ZeusWillJudge]

Fred is going to be a sought after free agent with several big market choices (Lakers...). Doubt he chooses to move down to San Anton’

He's gonna get paid, for sure. I was screaming for him when he was an undrafted free agent. Probably would have lost him.

The point was just that a real PG is a different animal. I like Murray just fine. He isn't a PG, and it's really not fair to him to have him there.

[SAGirl]

You really need to get away from the common “good guys” and “stanza” buzz words. It smacks of poor writing and common sports writer lingo. Be better.
I actually agree with that. It's very cliche. There are no "good guys" or "bad guys" in basketball, but hey it's free content so I don't complain. It's not a bad comment if someone wants to improve their sports journalistic writing though.

[GAustex]

BS there are good guys and bad guys in this venue. I reject you as the arbiters of what is.

[SAGirl]

BS there are good guys and bad guys in this venue. I reject you as the arbiters of what is.
its cliche and amateuristic. if someone wants to improve their writing they would listen to suggestion. Not my beef but I do it for my own benefit when its not troll made. i don't think that comment was.

[spurs10]

Thanks for the grades and write-up. Yeah when I saw the two fouls on Poeltl in the first minute I was convinced it was was going to be a rough one. So it was exciting to see us hang in there and come back in the 4th, if to no avail. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed in some of the decision making and defensive lapses in the end, but that how you get experience I reckon. Onward ho to virtual Denver tomorrow afternoon...unless we're the home team.
:flag:

[Longlonglongtimelurk]

Nah he's right. Amateur writing is fine as long as it's not formulaic
Give me an amateur who knows his basketball over a lazy, unknowledgeable writer full of spin any day.

TIMVPs writing is the only reason I still come to this site, I’m sure many others are the same. It sure isn’t for the whingeing losers around here.

[BillMc]

TIMVPs writing is the only reason I still come to this site, I’m sure many others are the same.


It's not the only reason I come, but it is the best reason. Timvp does a very nice job. First thing I do after every game (especially if I miss it) is check his grades. Hat's off to him.

[ZeusWillJudge]

I actually agree with that. It's very cliche. There are no "good guys" or "bad guys" in basketball, but hey it's free content so I don't complain. It's not a bad comment if someone wants to improve their sports journalistic writing though.


Zaza Pachulia was a bad guy.

[SAGirl]

Zaza Pachulia was a bad guy.
Yeah but that’s not every run of the mill bad guy referred to here. See how it’s overdone?

[SAGirl]

What a Whiny bunch tbh. They complain about those who complain, probably the worst bunch, plus no sense of humor. And ruffles easily feathered to boot :dizzy Not talking about Zeus either but the long time lurkers

[GAustex]

I reject you as the arbiter of what is

[SAGirl]

:lol

[Dingle Barry]

its cliche and amateuristic. if someone wants to improve their writing they would listen to suggestion. Not my beef but I do it for my own benefit when its not troll made. i don't think that comment was.
Calling an amateur sports writer an amateur is a dumbass criticism. Especially when he's far better at it than most of the idiots who get paid to do it.

And using the terms good/bad guys is totally appropriate on a team fan website.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Yeah but that’s not every run of the mill bad guy referred to here. See how it’s overdone?


No. What I see is this: if you don't like the way LJ writes, go read someone else's post-game grades. Start your own Spurs site and do better if you can. You're a professional critic of sports writers now, with the right to call him "amateuristic"? GTFO.

I'm interested in content, and his is better than 90% of what is puked out by people whose full time job it is to write about sports.

[GAustex]

It part of this bs cancel culture. She thinks she is arbiter of what is

[SAGirl]

No. What I see is this: if you don't like the way LJ writes, go read someone else's post-game grades. Start your own Spurs site and do better if you can. You're a professional critic of sports writers now, with the right to call him "amateuristic"? GTFO.

I'm interested in content, and his is better than 90% of what is puked out by people whose full time job it is to write about sports.
I was responding to “constructive” criticism on his writing. This isn’t even about an original comment I made.
I agreed it could improve, like everyone’s manners.
Is everyone scratching their balls when they post here bc it seems like it. GTFO bc why not? Let’s use your manners.

[spurs10]

Give me an amateur who knows his basketball over a lazy, unknowledgeable writer full of spin any day.

TIMVPs writing is the only reason I still come to this site, I’m sure many others are the same. It sure isn’t for the whingeing losers around here. Same here.


It's not the only reason I come, but it is the best reason. Timvp does a very nice job. First thing I do after every game (especially if I miss it) is check his grades. Hat's off to him. Couldn't agree more.


Calling an amateur sports writer an amateur is a dumbass criticism. Especially when he's far better at it than most of the idiots who get paid to do it.

And using the terms good/bad guys is totally appropriate on a team fan website. Of course!

Yes I was going to refrain from remarking about the pretentious bullshit written here by a couple of people and ask them what the fuck they have ever done, but I'm glad some of you have spoken up. I'm very grateful for the work timvp and Kori Ellis have done here at Spurtalk. Is there a longer running sports forum created by fans out there? I greatly look forward to the game reviews and grades and could care less about the blathering of some sports pundit who might not know the names of the players on the team. Thanks to LJ and Kori!

I'd also like to add if you are giving your unsolicited advice about 'how to improve your writing,' try not to do it with several illiterate and poorly written sentences.

[Longlonglongtimelurk]

What a Whiny bunch tbh. They complain about those who complain, probably the worst bunch, plus no sense of humor. And ruffles easily feathered to boot :dizzy Not talking about Zeus either but the long time lurkers
How about a bit of respect for the main man around here that spends a decent portion of his time doing the grades, for people like you, free of charge. I think everyone here knows he’s not an ESPN journalist and just a big time Spurs fan that knows his basketball, the Spurs and Pop. Nowhere else on the internet will you find analysis game by game that you find here.

Nothing wrong with criticism, but if you’re going to criticize make it worthwhile and not hone in on phrases or terms you individually don’t like. And the critic probably wouldn’t have gotten a reply if he didn’t sign off with a disrespectful ‘be better’.