2020 Free Agents

[Dejounte]

Brent Berry mentioned they're looking at free agents. You're telling me we have room for our two draft picks and a free agent? Who could the Spurs be looking at?

[r0drig0lac]

Bertans

[Chinook]

Imagine Eubanks will not be on the team or will replace Poeltl/LMA if the team drafts a center like most of us seem to want. I think the second-rounder will take that two-way spot. Hopefully, the team looks at bringing in a PF who can defend and shoot in the way they tried to with Morris. This might be a good year to just not, though. If the cap doesn't jump like is being predicted, then the Spurs are in a position where they might have to Jefferson DeRozan to get under the tax. Maybe they're sensing DeMar is still going to opt out/walk though, or maybe they have some trades lined up to dump salary. If everyone comes back, though, money will be tight. From a financial perspective, getting under the tax and getting a share of what looks to be a higher tax bill than we've seen in a while would be a good idea.

[spurspl]

drummond and joe harris should be the target. ddr, beli, forbes out and maybe lma, murray trade

[tbdog]

Spurs will have no cap space. A Full MLE is all. 2022, like a whole team is off payroll (Mills, Gay, LMA, Lyles, DD if he opts in).

If spurs are going with an up tempo team and DD resigns, I think going after Randal could be an option, Mills/Gay with a sign and trade with Poeltl would be the players involved. Obviously that would require Knicks seeing long term value in Poeltl as their starting center in the future. Which is possible with Thibs on board.

I would also look into Sabonis. I love his game and TD will be training him. That would require a big offer and I think LMA, Murray and 1st. And then take back some bad contracts in the mean time. But I think Pacers would only move Sabonis in a win now scenario.

[DAF86]

Imagine Eubanks will not be on the team or will replace Poeltl/LMA if the team drafts a center like most of us seem to want. I think the second-rounder will take that two-way spot. Hopefully, the team looks at bringing in a PF who can defend and shoot in the way they tried to with Morris. This might be a good year to just not, though. If the cap doesn't jump like is being predicted, then the Spurs are in a position where they might have to Jefferson DeRozan to get under the tax. Maybe they're sensing DeMar is still going to opt out/walk though, or maybe they have some trades lined up to dump salary. If everyone comes back, though, money will be tight. From a financial perspective, getting under the tax and getting a share of what looks to be a higher tax bill than we've seen in a while would be a good idea.

What? Why? Why the fuck would any Spur fan want that? We need Forwards, Forwards and more Forwards. Basically the same shit we have been needing since nephew GTFO.

[ace3g]

Otto Porter Jr (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2594922/otto-porter-jr). (player)
Montrezl Harrell (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2991055/montrezl-harrell)
Jae Crowder (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6581/jae-crowder)
Andre Roberson (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2530596/andre-roberson) (If he is healthy after the bubble and playoffs)
Dario Saric (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3032978/dario-saric) (restricted)

[SpurSpike]

Am i the only one who feels the Spurs are going to have a fire sale on the vets this year in exchange for young talent?

Aldridge, Rudy, Mills and DeRozan if he opts in are all on the last year of their contract after this season. If you were ever to extract value in a trade from any of those vets this off season is the time to do it.

[slick'81]

Spurs got no cap space to speak of. Most of these guys are pipe dreams

[R. DeMurre]

The Free Agents available are pretty thin this year, especially for a team that doesn't have a lot of money to spend. The only guy I see that might be relatively inexpensive and maybe worth taking a chance on is Christian Wood.

[objective]

Regardless of what Brent says, I don't expect the Spurs to spend any exception money due to the Corona $ losses. I just hope it's bad enough that they don't re-sign Forbes, but not so bad that they sell their first round pick

[slick'81]

Regardless of what Brent says, I don't expect the Spurs to spend any exception money due to the Corona $ losses. I just hope it's bad enough that they don't re-sign Forbes, but not so bad that they sell their first round pick


If spurs sold their first we should def boycott this franchise

[talkspurs]

Wood is not going to be cheap. He is going to get paid this summer. Thon Maker would be nice for us to get.

[gambit1990]

i wish there was video. what else did he have to say?

[gambit1990]

idk who the spurs could be looking at without cap space.

but i'm glad he's trying to build the roster he's gonna coach down the line.

[ducks]

Trade pop !

[gambit1990]

i've been a big montrezl fan but sign dwight howard instead. he's size the spurs need. and will be cheaper.

white / keldon / / la / howard

[gospursgojas]

This was the first and only interesting in game interview so far. I was gonna post about how horrible and un-entertaining they make the broadcast after last game.

But I decided to cry about pop instead.

[BackHome]

Almost every year we talk about trades and nothing happens I hope to God this year makes up for all the others and we trade Two players and let two players go.

[ace3g]

I know this won't happen especially after how Warren is playing in bubble but....

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eetj1r1UYAAd75v?format=png&name=large

[slick'81]

I know this won't happen especially after how Warren is playing in bubble but....

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eetj1r1UYAAd75v?format=png&name=large
Yea no fckn way pacers do that deal

[venitian navigator]

One potential free agent I like and that we could target is one we just faced... I mean Jeremy Grant. Good defender, athletic, now a good shooter from 3 too... Looks the kind of player that improves every year. Has a player option. Considering how many good players Denver has, he could consider a clear safe role in a different team...

[Dejounte]

There is no way Montrezl is signing for the MLE so not sure why people are saying it

[Chinook]

What? Why? Why the fuck would any Spur fan want that? We need Forwards, Forwards and more Forwards. Basically the same shit we have been needing since nephew GTFO.

The team has drafted at least one forward for a few years now. There's no question that the team could use an ace PF, and I've said as much in so many threads that I'm not going to keep repeating that for your benefit. But the team needs a developmental center too. The ideal thing (outside of winning the lottery and getting Wiseman) would be to get a pick in the 20s and grab a guy to replace Eubanks or to push Eubanks for minutes if LMA or Poeltl leaves. It's a legit need that should be addressed in the draft.

The team might well try again for getting a forward in free agency. If the team needs that position so much, then they need to use more immediate resources on it and not just every draft pick forever no matter what. Regardless, the Spurs did not lack size until they let all of their size go the off-season they traded Leonard. I agree there, but it's not like it was Kawhi who was the size for the Spurs. They should've gotten something back from Toronto like OG or Siakam and didn't. I like Johnson a lot, but it would've made sense to not get that pick if they had a chance to get more. And they'd already have a starting PF if they had just drafted Brandon Clarke over Samanic. I'll never be okay with that, just like I wasn't okay with drafting Milutinov over Harrell in 2015.

[Chinook]

One potential free agent I like and that we could target is one we just faced... I mean Jeremy Grant. Good defender, athletic, now a good shooter from 3 too... Looks the kind of player that improves every year. Has a player option. Considering how many good players Denver has, he could consider a clear safe role in a different team...

Not a bad idea at all. It depends on the money, though. As I mentioned before, the Spurs may not have enough to keep Lyles, so tossing the full MLE -- and especially that for multiple years -- may not be tenable for a player who is still just okay.

[BackHome]

To be honest after What happened this past summer on loosing out on one of our trades and trading Bertans for a guy Poop never played and ended up trading him for nothing. That is not a good look and I don’t think players will come here if they is any other options.

[ducks]

To be honest after What happened this past summer on loosing out on one of our trades and trading Bertans for a guy Poop never played and ended up trading him for nothing. That is not a good look and I don’t think players will come here if they is any other options.

Who says poop will be here ?

[DAF86]

The team has drafted at least one forward for a few years now. There's no question that the team could use an ace PF, and I've said as much in so many threads that I'm not going to keep repeating that for your benefit. But the team needs a developmental center too. The ideal thing (outside of winning the lottery and getting Wiseman) would be to get a pick in the 20s and grab a guy to replace Eubanks or to push Eubanks for minutes if LMA or Poeltl leaves. It's a legit need that should be addressed in the draft.

The team might well try again for getting a forward in free agency. If the team needs that position so much, then they need to use more immediate resources on it and not just every draft pick forever no matter what. Regardless, the Spurs did not lack size until they let all of their size go the off-season they traded Leonard. I agree there, but it's not like it was Kawhi who was the size for the Spurs. They should've gotten something back from Toronto like OG or Siakam and didn't. I like Johnson a lot, but it would've made sense to not get that pick if they had a chance to get more. And they'd already have a starting PF if they had just drafted Brandon Clarke over Samanic. I'll never be okay with that, just like I wasn't okay with drafting Milutinov over Harrell in 2015.

The team needs a 3 and a 4 a lot more.

[SAGirl]

Am i the only one who feels the Spurs are going to have a fire sale on the vets this year in exchange for young talent?

Aldridge, Rudy, Mills and DeRozan if he opts in are all on the last year of their contract after this season. If you were ever to extract value in a trade from any of those vets this off season is the time to do it. Mills isn’t getting traded FWIW

[gambit1990]

I know this won't happen especially after how Warren is playing in bubble but....

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eetj1r1UYAAd75v?format=png&name=large



i fixed it for you:
https://i.imgur.com/NxtN5cR.pnghttps://imgur.com/NxtN5cR

[Chinook]

The team needs a 3 and a 4 a lot more.

No, they don't need a three more than a five. Arguably their best prospect is a three, and their second-best prospect will play a lot of three in the modern NBA. If the Spurs luck in to a 6-8 guy, he'll be a four. There's no reason to keep pretending like SF is the same as it was back in the 90s. Even in the 2010's, SFs averaged at about 6-6. They need to replace their front court. They have nothing there, not even Walker or Johnson-level prospects.

And again, if they NEED forwards that badly, they shouldn't be depending on the draft to get them. That was already stated in the bulk of the post that you ignored.

[BackHome]

Main need is An athletic PF who has offense and defense game. Second would be a 6’8 SF who can play defense and hit the 3 ball. Third would be a athletic TOUGH center that can rebound and block some shots and has some outside game. Fourth would be anyone who has good handles and who can hit the 3 ball any position.

[DAF86]

No, they don't need a three more than a five. [B]Arguably their best prospect is a three

You mean Keldon? He's 6'5" on tiptoes. That's not a 3.


and their second-best prospect will play a lot of three in the modern NBA. If the Spurs luck in to a 6-8 guy, he'll be a four. There's no reason to keep pretending like SF is the same as it was back in the 90s. Even in the 2010's, SFs averaged at about 6-6.

Why the blatant lie son? :lol

Lebron 6'9"
Paul George 6'8"
Middleton 6'7"
Covington 6'9"
Ingles 6'7"
Butler 6'7"
Ben Simmons 6'10"
Tatum 6'8"
Anunoby 6'8"
Porter Jr 6'10"

Those are the SF of all the teams worth a shit.


They need to replace their front court. They have nothing there, not even Walker or Johnson-level prospects.

They have Poeltl at that position for the foreseeable future. A former lottery pick who has been posting great positive metrics ever since he got to the league. The dude is a starter level center, no matter what the "let's overreact for 2 bubble games on unsual circumstances" crowd thinks.


And again, if they NEED forwards that badly, they shouldn't be depending on the draft to get them. That was already stated in the bulk of the post that you ignored.

They need forwards so badly that they need to adress it in all the ways possible: draft and free agency.

But, anyways, let me return the ball back to your side of the court. If you think they need a Center so badly, why adress it with the draft?

[TD 21]

You're both partially right/wrong.

Johnson is a 2.5, while most of the names DAF86 listed are 3.5's. Some of them, Johnson can probably adequately defend. The overpowering types, he probably can't.

Ideally, the starting "SF" would be more of a 3.5, but a Walker-Johnson starting 2/3 is doable if 1) They become good enough to make it worthwhile and 2) They find a 4 similar to Gordon.

[DAF86]

You're both partially right/wrong.

Johnson is a 2.5, while most of the names DAF86 listed are 3.5's. Some of them, Johnson can probably adequately defend. The overpowering types, he probably can't.

Ideally, the starting "SF" would be more of a 3.5, but a Walker-Johnson starting 2/3 is doable if 1) They become good enough to make it worthwhile and 2) They find a 4 similar to Gordon.

Of course Johnson can play the 3. If you have a bunch of 6'4", 6'5" combo guards and no SFs, then it makes sense to play Johnson at the 3. It's less than ideal though. But if we are planning for the future we should be planning for the most ideal situations, not patches. And the ideal position for Johnson going forward is SG, not SF.

[Dingle Barry]

Main need is An athletic PF who has offense and defense game. Second would be a 6’8 SF who can play defense and hit the 3 ball. Third would be a athletic TOUGH center that can rebound and block some shots and has some outside game. Fourth would be anyone who has good handles and who can hit the 3 ball any position.

#metu has the PF covered.

[Dejounte]

You mean Keldon? He's 6'5" on tiptoes. That's not a 3.



Why the blatant lie son? :lol

Lebron 6'9"
Paul George 6'8"
Middleton 6'7"
Covington 6'9"
Ingles 6'7"
Butler 6'7"
Ben Simmons 6'10"
Tatum 6'8"
Anunoby 6'8"
Porter Jr 6'10"

Those are the SF of all the teams worth a shit.



They have Poeltl at that position for the foreseeable future. A former lottery pick who has been posting great positive metrics ever since he got to the league. The dude is a starter level center, no matter what the "let's overreact for 2 bubble games on unsual circumstances" crowd thinks.



They need forwards so badly that they need to adress it in all the ways possible: draft and free agency.

But, anyways, let me return the ball back to your side of the court. If you think they need a Center so badly, why adress it with the draft?

You say you want us to draft a tall forward in this upcoming draft but there arent many options. Vassell is a twig and wont be able to hold his own against those players you listed. Saddiq is no better than the best Gleaguer. Tyler Bey is a maybe. Deni is out of our reach unless we win the lottery.

The best bet is to hope one of the PF prospects is mobile enough or is able to convert into your prototype SF

[spurspl]

You say you want us to draft a tall forward in this upcoming draft but there arent many options. Vassell is a twig and wont be able to hold his own against those players you listed. Saddiq is no better than the best Gleaguer. Tyler Bey is a maybe. Deni is out of our reach unless we win the lottery.

The best bet is to hope one of the PF prospects is mobile enough or is able to convert into your prototype SF

dont underestimete vassel, giannis was a twig too and now he looks like a monster. Gainin some muscle is the easiest way to improve (but even murray cant do it...;))

[Dejounte]

dont underestimete vassel, giannis was a twig too and now he looks like a monster. Gainin some muscle is the easiest way to improve (but even murray cant do it...;))

Ive lost hope in players gaining weight since Murray came. Players who muscle up like Giannis are rare. Also, you could tell by Vassel's frame that he doesnt look like he will gain much weight. His shoulder width is really narrow. Looks like a Tayshaun Prince body type.

Another example of a player not gaining muscle is Kyle Anderson

[exstatic]

#metu has the PF covered.

Yeah, but who is talking about Austin?

[DAF86]

You say you want us to draft a tall forward in this upcoming draft but there arent many options. Vassell is a twig and wont be able to hold his own against those players you listed. Saddiq is no better than the best Gleaguer. Tyler Bey is a maybe. Deni is out of our reach unless we win the lottery.

The best bet is to hope one of the PF prospects is mobile enough or is able to convert into your prototype SF

I really don't know who the prospects are, I'm just stating the team's main need. If there aren't any promising SF out there to be taken, then, sure, the right thing is to draft the best bailable talent, regardless of position.

[Chinook]

You mean Keldon? He's 6'5" on tiptoes. That's not a 3.

It's a three, it turns out.


Why the blatant lie son? :lol

Lebron 6'9"
Paul George 6'8"
Middleton 6'7"
Covington 6'9"
Ingles 6'7"
Butler 6'7"
Ben Simmons 6'10"
Tatum 6'8"
Anunoby 6'8"
Porter Jr 6'10"

Those are the SF of all the teams worth a shit.

It's not a lie. Listing players with above-average height does not disprove the claim that the average SF for a while has been 6-6ish.

And no, when you list a guy like Porter, who plays for Chicago, you aren't just listing the SFs on good teams. Even if most SFs were 6-8 (which they aren't), that doesn't mean Johnson would struggle against them. Bowen is 6-7, and he played the position for years, even in the post-up era. You don't even have to go cheap with guys like Tony Allen to find good defenders who aren't really tall.


They have Poeltl at that position for the foreseeable future. A former lottery pick who has been posting great positive metrics ever since he got to the league. The dude is a starter level center, no matter what the "let's overreact for 2 bubble games on unsual circumstances" crowd thinks.

Poeltl's already on record for wanting out. While it's probable he'll start next season on the roster, I don't think you can say that's for the "foreseeable future" at all. Even if he stays, they still need a quality backup, especially with how much Jakob fouls.


They need forwards so badly that they need to adress it in all the ways possible: draft and free agency.

Not really. There are only so many rotation spots available. Like it or not, if DeRozan is on the team, there isn't even a spot in the rotation for an SF. I think you could totally justify signing one with the MLE anyway and having that guy push other players for minutes. But if they got like three SFs, only one would play anyway, and that's with assuming Samanic doesn't make a jump into the rotation (which I don't think is going to happen but could).


But, anyways, let me return the ball back to your side of the court. If you think they need a Center so badly, why adress it with the draft?

I actually said multiple times in the posts you've quoted that they need a developmental player there. You obviously don't NEED to sign a developmental player as a free agent. Basically, you want a guy on Eubanks' level but younger and with more upside. What sucks is that last year had a bunch of them in the middle of the draft, but the Spurs drafted Johnson instead. Obviously Keldon's been a good pick so far. But last year was the time to draft a young big and have for years of team control to see if you could move on from Aldridge and/or Poeltl.

[Chinook]

You're both partially right/wrong.

Johnson is a 2.5, while most of the names DAF86 listed are 3.5's. Some of them, Johnson can probably adequately defend. The overpowering types, he probably can't.

Ideally, the starting "SF" would be more of a 3.5, but a Walker-Johnson starting 2/3 is doable if 1) They become good enough to make it worthwhile and 2) They find a 4 similar to Gordon.

I basically agree with this. I think you and I personally have discussed this enough to where you probably know I want a Gordon-esque PF to guard those "3.5" players. Ideally, you have five Lebron's. But I also think a Walker/Johnson wing combo is the clearest path forward for the team. That could change if they acquire an elite talent at one of those positions. But if they got a 6-9 defensive type at 11, then yeah that guy is a PF and you keep going with the previous duo without caring about ideal position designations.

[DAF86]

It's a three, it turns out.

He's a guard.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/keldon-johnson-1.html

He only plays the 3 in the Spurs because we have no other guys to play there. I guess it turns out DeRozan is a PF then.


It's not a lie. Listing players with above-average height does not disprove the claim that the average SF for a while has been 6-6ish.

First of all, link?

Second, who care what the average is when all the teams that matter have SFs taller than that?


And no, when you list a guy like Porter, who plays for Chicago, you aren't just listing the SFs on good teams

I'm talking about Porter JR. You know, the rookie on Denver that tore our guards trying to play SF new assholes yesterday?


Even if most SFs were 6-8 (which they aren't), that doesn't mean Johnson would struggle against them. Bowen is 6-7, and he played the position for years, even in the post-up era. You don't even have to go cheap with guys like Tony Allen to find good defenders who aren't really tall.

You said it, Bowen was 6'7". The minimum required to play SF nowadays, imho. Not to mention he was an outlier in the sense that he was one of the greatest perimeter defenders ever.


Poeltl's already on record for wanting out.

Link?


While it's probable he'll start next season on the roster, I don't think you can say that's for the "foreseeable future" at all. Even if he stays, they still need a quality backup, especially with how much Jakob fouls.


So you would rather use a pick on a center, where we already have a starting caliber young man (not to mention a star that hasn't been traded yet, and, for all we know, never will), instead of in either forward position where we have to constantly be improvising players? Interesting reasoning. To not say completely retarded, tbh.


Not really. There are only so many rotation spots available. Like it or not, if DeRozan is on the team, there isn't even a spot in the rotation for an SF. I think you could totally justify signing one with the MLE anyway and having that guy push other players for minutes. But if they got like three SFs, only one would play anyway, and that's with assuming Samanic doesn't make a jump into the rotation (which I don't think is going to happen but could).


And if Aldridge and Poeltl are on the team where do you plan to play this potential drafted center of yours? :lol The rotation at either forward position is a lot more open than at center.



I actually said multiple times in the posts you've quoted that they need a developmental player there. You obviously don't NEED to sign a developmental player as a free agent. Basically, you want a guy on Eubanks' level but younger and with more upside. What sucks is that last year had a bunch of them in the middle of the draft, but the Spurs drafted Johnson instead. Obviously Keldon's been a good pick so far. But last year was the time to draft a young big and have for years of team control to see if you could move on from Aldridge and/or Poeltl.

Developmental or play ready is still better to sign a forward than a center. What's with your weird fixation with bigmen son? It's 2020 COVID infested NBA, get with the times. Forwards >>>>> centers in terms of impact.

[Chinook]

He's a guard.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/keldon-johnson-1.html

He only plays the 3 in the Spurs because we have no other guys to play there. I guess it turns out DeRozan is a PF then.

This is not evidence of anything. Danny Green played PF for much of his career at UNC. Also, DeRozan plays PF because that's his best position. Yes, he wouldn't start there if everyone were healthy, but he was getting minutes there during the regular regular season too.


First of all, link?

Second, who care what the average is when all the teams that matter have SFs taller than that?


https://www.thehoopsgeek.com/average-nba-height/

Because you're trying to claim that SFs ARE a certain size, and they aren't. And we've talked about why you listing players the way you have is disingenous.


You said it, Bowen was 6'7". The minimum required to play SF nowadays, imho. Not to mention he was an outlier in the sense that he was one of the greatest perimeter defenders ever.

He wasn't an outlier in terms of height, and he was 6-7 back when height was more important for wings than it is now.


Link?

Eh no. There was a whole thread on it here when he said it.


So you would rather use a pick on a center, where we already have a starting caliber young man (not to mention a star that hasn't been traded yet, and, for all we know, never will), instead of in either forward position where we have to constantly be improvising players? Interesting reasoning. To not say completely retarded, tbh.

Dude, are you even reading my posts or just skimming them? It's weird that you keep saying that I argued for a center over a PF. It's also dishonest to say DeRozan played SF out of necessity when Carroll literally sat on the bench most of the year because Pop didn't want to play him over guards. It's one thing to say the Spurs SHOULD play guys down a position. It's another to be so blind to the way the team works as to think it was an accident that they don't.


And if Aldridge and Poeltl are on the team where do you plan to play this potential drafted center of yours? :lol The rotation at either forward position is a lot more open than at center.

It's not. You don't draft a guy with the idea that he HAS to play this year. I'd love for them to use their first pick on a PF that can play right away. But you don't get a guy later in the draft hoping to fill present holes, no matter the position. Free agency is to cover up current needs. The draft is the cover up future needs. Anyone with an ounce of foresight can see the center position is the barest on the team right now.


Developmental or play ready is still better to sign a forward than a center. What's with your weird fixation with bigmen son? It's 2020 COVID infested NBA, get with the times. Forwards >>>>> centers in terms of impact

You're trolling at this point...

You need developmental players at EVERY position. Why is that so hard for you to understand? They already have developmental forwards. Right now, they have no one who projects to be on the team past next season at center. That's why they need to invest there.

[DAF86]

https://www.thehoopsgeek.com/average-nba-height/

That link literally says the average height for SFs is 6'7" and 1/2. :lmao

Why would you provide that link and get it so wrong son? :lol

[DAF86]

This is not evidence of anything. Danny Green played PF for much of his career at UNC.

Yeah, it is more normal to go down in positions as you make your transition from college to the NBA and you have to face, bigger, stronger folks.


Also, DeRozan plays PF because that's his best position. Yes, he wouldn't start there if everyone were healthy, but he was getting minutes there during the regular regular season too.

DeRozan plays PF with the Spurs because the roster construction is shit. This is something spur fans have been complaining for years.



And we've talked about why you listing players the way you have is disingenous.

How is my listing of players disingenous. I literally took the top teams in the league and just listed their starting SFs. Desingenous is saying the average SF is 6'6" when it's actually a full feet and a half taller, tbh.


He wasn't an outlier in terms of height, and he was 6-7 back when height was more important for wings than it is now.

I would argue that is not true.


Eh no. There was a whole thread on it here when he said it.

Yeah, you better not post any more links, tbh. :lol


Dude, are you even reading my posts or just skimming them? It's weird that you keep saying that I argued for a center over a PF. It's also dishonest to say DeRozan played SF out of necessity when Carroll literally sat on the bench most of the year because Pop didn't want to play him over guards. It's one thing to say the Spurs SHOULD play guys down a position. It's another to be so blind to the way the team works as to think it was an accident that they don't.

Carroll is an ex-player, that's why he didn't play. And regarding "how the team works", it hasn't. All season long. Probably because they have no forwards outside of past prime Gay.


It's not. You don't draft a guy with the idea that he HAS to play this year. I'd love for them to use their first pick on a PF that can play right away. But you don't get a guy later in the draft hoping to fill present holes, no matter the position. Free agency is to cover up current needs. The draft is the cover up future needs. Anyone with an ounce of foresight can see the center position is the barest on the team right now.

Forward is the position of most need for now and for the future. Anyone with a pair of functioning eyes can see that.



You're trolling at this point...

You need developmental players at EVERY position. Why is that so hard for you to understand? They already have developmental forwards. Right now, they have no one who projects to be on the team past next season at center. That's why they need to invest there.

No, they don't. They have a 6'9" PF that doesn't seem to be anywhere ready and probably never will (players who amount to anything real prove it on their first year. Think of Parker, Manu, Hill, Kawhi. heck, even Murray, White, Walker and Johnson. Who was the last player you remember, that the Spurs drafted, who didn't play at all in his rookie season and then became an important feature of the squad? All of the guys I listed had at least a moment of brillance in their first season.

The other "developmental forward" you are probably referring to is Johnson, who, as already proven, would be better suited at SG than SF.

[Dejounte]

Yeah, it is more normal to go down in positions as you make your transition from college to the NBA and you have to face, bigger, stronger folks.



DeRozan plays PF with the Spurs because the roster construction is shit. This is something spur fans have been complaining for years.




How is my listing of players disingenous. I literally took the top teams in the league and just listed their starting SFs. Desingenous is saying the average SF is 6'6" when it's actually a full feet and a half taller, tbh.



I would argue that is not true.



Yeah, you better not post any more links, tbh. :lol



Carroll is an ex-player, that's why he didn't play. And regarding "how the team works", it hasn't. All season long. Probably because they have no forwards outside of past prime Gay.



Forward is the position of most need for now and for the future. Anyone with a pair of functioning eyes can see that.




No, they don't. They have a 6'9" PF that doesn't seem to be anywhere ready and probably never will (players who amount to anything real prove it on their first year. Think of Parker, Manu, Hill, Kawhi. heck, even Murray, White, Walker and Johnson. Who was the last player you remember, that the Spurs drafted, who didn't play at all in his rookie season and then became an important feature of the squad? All of the guys I listed had at least a moment of brillance in their first season.

The other "developmental forward" you are probably referring to is Johnson, who, as already proven, would be better suited at SG than SF.

Regarding your last point:

Spurs' use of the Gleague has never been as prominent as it has been since the last couple of years. Samanic not being "featured" this year is not an indicator of his success or failure as a future NBA player. Other things may be, sure, but not being featured isnt a reason.

[DAF86]

Regarding your last point:

Spurs' use of the Gleague has never been as prominent as it has been since the last couple of years. Samanic not being "featured" this year is not an indicator of his success or failure as a future NBA player. Other things may be, sure, but not being featured isnt a reason.

White, Walker and Johnson played a lot of G-league ball but still had their moments with the main team on their rookie season, not to mention tearing shit up on the G-league. Samanic didn't do either.

[exstatic]

White, Walker and Johnson played a lot of G-league ball but still had their moments with the main team on their rookie season, not to mention tearing shit up on the G-league. Samanic didn't do either.

Samanic was always going to be a two year Austin project. He’s very young, not physically developed, and played a really low level of Euro ball. Year one was just weight room, and getting accustomed to the speed and verticality of American basketball. Year two, he’ll at least be co-featured with our lottery pick, and will start getting what the Spurs call vitamins. Learn the triple threat position, and how to attack from it. Learn the rocker step. Learn some back to the basket stuff.

[R. DeMurre]

The 2019 NBA draft combine had Keldon Johnson at 6'6" in sneakers, with a 6'9.25" wingspan.

https://www.nbadraft.net/2019-nba-draft-combine-measurements/

[DAF86]

The 2019 NBA draft combine had Keldon Johnson at 6'6" in sneakers, with a 6'9 1/2" wingspan.

https://www.nbadraft.net/2019-nba-draft-combine-measurements/

Still undersized for SF, tbh.

[R. DeMurre]

Still undersized for SF, tbh.

By a bit, sure. But beside a reasonably sized PF, I think the D could potentially be very good with White, Murray, and KJ playing the 1, 2, & 3.

[DAF86]

By a bit, sure. But beside a reasonably sized PF, I think the D could potentially be very good with White, Murray, and KJ playing the 1, 2, & 3.

I would really love to see a big, lanky, tall, pesty defensive lineup sometime.

White at PG
Johnson at SG
Poeltl at C
And two 6'8"/6'9" guys at Fs

The defensive potential of such a lineup would be beatiful.

[Dejounte]

White, Walker and Johnson played a lot of G-league ball but still had their moments with the main team on their rookie season, not to mention tearing shit up on the G-league. Samanic didn't do either.

I'm guessing you watched none of the G league. Walker didnt tear shit up at all in the Gleague in his first year. Samanic went on a tear in January and Feb and averaged about 18 ppg, 7 rpg, and 3 apg. Youre literally talking to someone who watched most of the gleague games. Not sure why you started to resort to lying to make your point?

[DAF86]

I'm guessing you watched none of the G league. Walker didnt tear shit up at all in the Gleague in his first year. Samanic went on a tear in January and Feb and averaged about 18 ppg, 7 rpg, and 3 apg. Youre literally talking to someone who watched most of the gleague games. Not sure why you started to resort to lying to make your point?

Why the bitchy attitude son? :lol

I might not have seen every G-league game live but I box-score followed pretty much all of them, and would watch the highlights of the young prospects when they did good. There was a string of 20+ pts games from Walker that had everybody excited. Shortly after he was called to the main team and showed glimpses of his potential. Samanic didn't have that this season.

[Dejounte]

Why the bitchy attitude son? :lol

I might not have seen every G-league game live but I box-score followed pretty much all of them, and would watch the highlights of the young prospects when they did good. There was a string of 20+ pts games from Walker that had everybody excited. Shortly after he was called to the main team and showed glimpses of his potential. Samanic didn't have that this season.

I just hate it when people make shit up or play revisionist history.

Walker being called up was to a completely different team and situation, so to compare these two situations is totally arbitrary.

People were enamored with Walker from the getgo because of his athletic ability and his flashy style. People were desperate to find a new hero after Kawhi.

Its been easy to hate on Samanic because there were other prospects people wanted from the onset. The same isnt true for Lonnie. There was never another prospect in the draft where there were "clear" better options.

Samanic had the same number of 17+ ppg games as Lonnie had in the gleague.

[R. DeMurre]

I would really love to see a big, lanky, tall, pesty defensive lineup sometime.

White at PG
Johnson at SG
Poeltl at C
And two 6'8"/6'9" guys at Fs

The defensive potential of such a lineup would be beautiful.

Agreed! But those guys aren't easy to come by. I don't see many FAs that will fit the bill and be affordable, and even if the Spurs draft a 6'9"+ guy, he likely won't be ready to start right away. I'm all for a sign & trade with DeRozan to get one of those guys though.

[DAF86]

I just hate it when people make shit up or play revisionist history.

Walker being called up was to a completely different team and situation, so to compare these two situations is totally arbitrary.

People were enamored with Walker from the getgo because of his athletic ability and his flashy style. People were desperate to find a new hero after Kawhi.

Its been easy to hate on Samanic because there were other prospects people wanted from the onset. The same isnt true for Lonnie. There was never another prospect in the draft where there were "clear" better options.

Samanic had the same number of 17+ ppg games as Lonnie had in the gleague.

Walker had a hot streak on the G-league, he was called to the main team and showed some promise. Samanic didn't. Where's the "making shit up" part?

[Dejounte]

Walker had a hot streak on the G-league, he was called to the main team and showed some promise. Samanic didn't. Where's the "making shit up" part?

That Walker's "hot streak" was distinguishable from Samanic's. It wasn't. Walker's "hot streak" was not comparable to White's or Keldon's. If having a hot streak and coming onto the main team was an indicator was a sign of success, then how come when White came onto the team no one projected him to be some special player? This logic just too simplified and reeks of bullshit.

[DAF86]

That Walker's "hot streak" was distinguishable from Samanic's. It wasn't. Walker's "hot streak" was not comparable to White's or Keldon's. If having a hot streak and coming onto the main team was an indicator was a sign of success, then how come when White came onto the team no one projected him to be some special player? This logic just too simplified and reeks of bullshit.

Talk for yourself son. Me and some others were calling him the best guard on the roster by the end of his rookie season.

[Dejounte]

Talk for yourself son. Me and some others were calling him the best guard on the roster by the end of his rookie season.

Whats your obsession with calling people son? Lmao

Again, your logic is too simple. If it was somehow true, then it applies to all players on other teams who show out in the gleague their rookie year and end up being nba players. I know youre not going to look into it but i hope you realize how absurd this line of thinking is.

[DAF86]

Whats your obsession with calling people son? Lmao

The same as ending every sentence with "tbh", tbh.


Again, your logic is too simple. If it was somehow true, then it applies to all players on other teams who show out in the gleague their rookie year and end up being nba players. I know youre not going to look into it but i hope you realize how absurd this line of thinking is.

What part of my argument are you referring to?

[KobesAchilles]

We better not sign anyone during this offseason or I'm going to be pissed. Spurs are two years away (minimum) from being good again. If we sign anyone this year then that fucks things up exponentially and we are back to square one. A shitty roster with no cap space. Draft BPA with the 11th pick. Drop Forbes, Belli, and Poetl. Keep Zeller and Lyles because why not. Play all our vets early on in the season and see if we have a shot at making the playoffs. Once we don't make the playoffs, have a fire sale and secure some picks and get probably the 10th pick.

Starters: Murray,DDR,Gay,LYLES,LMA
Second unit: Murray, Lonnie, KJ, and Mills, and Zeller.

[alpha_HaZE]

That Walker's "hot streak" was distinguishable from Samanic's. It wasn't. Walker's "hot streak" was not comparable to White's or Keldon's. If having a hot streak and coming onto the main team was an indicator was a sign of success, then how come when White came onto the team no one projected him to be some special player? This logic just too simplified and reeks of bullshit.

You are a clown! Walkers' hot streak in g-league was not distinguishable from Samanic's for an idiot like you, but Spurs am sure don't just look at the box-score and decide who to bring over to play in the NBA. And No one of our youngs except maybe for Derrick has put numbers comparable to what Lonnie did against Rockets. What makes you think he can't do that ever again? Because if he can do 75% of that, consistently, he would be our third-best player right now. Samanic is nowhere near ready to play. Also, Walker was not 100% healthy in his rookie season which is part of why he fell to us in the draft. His 36min was very comparable to Derrick and Dejounte.

[Dejounte]

No... Youre a clown. Oh lord we have Walker stans now? I dont really give a fuck if you come at me like that... Come at me with logic and facts, not your stupid emotions. Grow up a bit and talk like an adult.

I dont even hate Lonnie. I support everyone on this team and want all of them to be successful. I'm merely debating the fact that

Being called up from G league to the main team in their rookie year = NOT an indicator of NBA success

[Chinook]

That link literally says the average height for SFs is 6'7" and 1/2. :lmao

Why would you provide that link and get it so wrong son? :lol

Because I'm not trying to lie to prove my point. I did see other articles with them as being 6-6.5 in shoes and under. But it's all besides the point. If Johnson is under the average height by an inch, why is that a problem (especially given that he has a standing reach comparable to most forwards)? Again, the fact that you can't tell the difference between a guy who's short but strong and tenacious and a guard is more telling about you.

[Chinook]

Yeah, it is more normal to go down in positions as you make your transition from college to the NBA and you have to face, bigger, stronger folks.

And yet people want Metu and Murray (and White for some) to move up positions.


DeRozan plays PF with the Spurs because the roster construction is shit. This is something spur fans have been complaining for years.

Yeah, no. He plays there because his skills fit best there. Pop had forwards both this year and last and kept them benched. Now if he had really good forwards, he might've played them. But that's obvious. Like if you have five Lebrons, you play them all at the same time. But the team literally brought in four new forwards last year and still played DeRozan at PF.


How is my listing of players disingenous. I literally took the top teams in the league and just listed their starting SFs. Desingenous is saying the average SF is 6'6" when it's actually a full feet and a half taller, tbh.

It's disingenuous because it puts players who play mostly at PF or next to a PF who isn't a legit threat offensively. Like Covington is a PF, but even as an SF, he just shoots. You don't need a guy his height to guard him. Even in a case like James and Kuzma, you totally put Johnson on Kuz and let him take possessions away from James. So it's ultimately like, who cares? The heights of the SFs don't SAY anything.


Carroll is an ex-player, that's why he didn't play. And regarding "how the team works", it hasn't. All season long. Probably because they have no forwards outside of past prime Gay.

Carroll was a bad contract, but he was a body. You're conflating the idea that the team's best players were guards with the idea that they didn't have forwards to play. If their best players were three-and-D forwards who could cross-guard on smaller players, then yes DeRozan would play down a position. Functionally his role on the team wouldn't change, but the guys next to him would be bigger. The same is true for almost every player. But if the goal was to play DeRozan at his "natural position" at all costs, they could have. But his physical abilities are such that he's a better forward than guard, especially when we're talking about playing SF with a decent defensive PF.


Forward is the position of most need for now and for the future. Anyone with a pair of functioning eyes can see that.

Nope. I feel like I'm talking to a guy from like five years ago when I was arguing the team needed to draft a guard and they were telling me it wasn't a need with Parker and Manu on the team. You can't have a sustainable roster drafting for immediate need over and over again, and you end up having to overpay or get lower quality if you have to fill holes through free agency.


No, they don't. They have a 6'9" PF that doesn't seem to be anywhere ready and probably never will (players who amount to anything real prove it on their first year. Think of Parker, Manu, Hill, Kawhi. heck, even Murray, White, Walker and Johnson. Who was the last player you remember, that the Spurs drafted, who didn't play at all in his rookie season and then became an important feature of the squad? All of the guys I listed had at least a moment of brillance in their first season.

The other "developmental forward" you are probably referring to is Johnson, who, as already proven, would be better suited at SG than SF.

All right no. The Spurs drafted Johnson as an SF. RC said as much then they picked him. They definitely drafted two forwards. Johnson has only proven that he plays the position just fine, especially for a rookie. I get that you don't want him to play there, but nothing from the season has proven that he should move down.

Samanic is exactly what a developmental player is supposed to be. They drafted him with the idea that he wasn't going to play yet but would in a couple of years, and then they went out and signed forwards to bolster their immediate rotation. For the millionth time, I've never suggested the team shouldn't draft another PF with a different skill-set who is hopefully more immediately useful. But yes, they certain can look at new PF, Gay/Lyles and Samanic and think they have the position pretty well addressed and look at Johnson and DeRozan/Walker (just depending) and think "Well we might want to replace Beli with a bigger vet but that position looks good too." Then they can look at an expiring LMA, a Poeltl who's not under contract and wants to leave, and an RFA Eubanks who's okay but also bleh and think, "Yeah, if we can get someone in the pipeline, that'd be great."

[Ocotillo]

Samanic was always going to be a two year Austin project. He’s very young, not physically developed, and played a really low level of Euro ball. Year one was just weight room, and getting accustomed to the speed and verticality of American basketball. Year two, he’ll at least be co-featured with our lottery pick, and will start getting what the Spurs call vitamins. Learn the triple threat position, and how to attack from it. Learn the rocker step. Learn some back to the basket stuff.

Not saying you're wrong Ex but I hope you are. My hope is the lottery pick is on the big boy team out of the gate........but you're probably right about this.

[BackHome]

Not going to judge a foreign player who has not played American Basketball longer then 6 months. Add to that Bigs always take longer to mature in this league in general.

For me the next couple of games I really want to see if Murray and Walker be able to step up and write their name in the starting book. If they don’t then one of them has a good chances to be replaced by our 11th pick.

[RC_Drunkford]

Joe Harris would be nice, but most likely too expensive. Spurs will probably sign some garbage player that Pop won't play like Demarre Carroll

[spurspl]

Joe Harris would be nice, but most likely too expensive. Spurs will probably sign some garbage player that Pop won't play like Demarre Carroll

if we can get rid of ddrs contract, forbes and belli we can easily afford joe harris. id love to have him in a roster, we need a 3pt specialist. maybe trade murray to move up in a draft.

white/keldon/harris/obi/lma

or add lma to murray and move up in a draft and then tryna to sign a drummond.

white/keldon/harris/obi/drummond

[DAF86]

And yet people want Metu and Murray (and White for some) to move up positions.



Yeah, no. He plays there because his skills fit best there. Pop had forwards both this year and last and kept them benched. Now if he had really good forwards, he might've played them. But that's obvious. Like if you have five Lebrons, you play them all at the same time. But the team literally brought in four new forwards last year and still played DeRozan at PF.



It's disingenuous because it puts players who play mostly at PF or next to a PF who isn't a legit threat offensively. Like Covington is a PF, but even as an SF, he just shoots. You don't need a guy his height to guard him. Even in a case like James and Kuzma, you totally put Johnson on Kuz and let him take possessions away from James. So it's ultimately like, who cares? The heights of the SFs don't SAY anything.



Carroll was a bad contract, but he was a body. You're conflating the idea that the team's best players were guards with the idea that they didn't have forwards to play. If their best players were three-and-D forwards who could cross-guard on smaller players, then yes DeRozan would play down a position. Functionally his role on the team wouldn't change, but the guys next to him would be bigger. The same is true for almost every player. But if the goal was to play DeRozan at his "natural position" at all costs, they could have. But his physical abilities are such that he's a better forward than guard, especially when we're talking about playing SF with a decent defensive PF.



Nope. I feel like I'm talking to a guy from like five years ago when I was arguing the team needed to draft a guard and they were telling me it wasn't a need with Parker and Manu on the team. You can't have a sustainable roster drafting for immediate need over and over again, and you end up having to overpay or get lower quality if you have to fill holes through free agency.



All right no. The Spurs drafted Johnson as an SF. RC said as much then they picked him. They definitely drafted two forwards. Johnson has only proven that he plays the position just fine, especially for a rookie. I get that you don't want him to play there, but nothing from the season has proven that he should move down.

Samanic is exactly what a developmental player is supposed to be. They drafted him with the idea that he wasn't going to play yet but would in a couple of years, and then they went out and signed forwards to bolster their immediate rotation. For the millionth time, I've never suggested the team shouldn't draft another PF with a different skill-set who is hopefully more immediately useful. But yes, they certain can look at new PF, Gay/Lyles and Samanic and think they have the position pretty well addressed and look at Johnson and DeRozan/Walker (just depending) and think "Well we might want to replace Beli with a bigger vet but that position looks good too." Then they can look at an expiring LMA, a Poeltl who's not under contract and wants to leave, and an RFA Eubanks who's okay but also bleh and think, "Yeah, if we can get someone in the pipeline, that'd be great."

You have your head way too deep into your own ass on this matter to keep this conversation going. It has become stale and boring. No matter how many more facts I throw at you you will find something new to go on a tangent and boggle the conversation. Heck, you won't even acknowledge the mistake you made with the average height of SF. You are going to keep thinking what you think and nobody is going to change that. There's a reason you are known for being a shitty evaluator, tbh. No offense my brother, but you know it's true. :lol

[cjw]

We better not sign anyone during this offseason or I'm going to be pissed. Spurs are two years away (minimum) from being good again. If we sign anyone this year then that fucks things up exponentially and we are back to square one. A shitty roster with no cap space. Draft BPA with the 11th pick. Drop Forbes, Belli, and Poetl. Keep Zeller and Lyles because why not. Play all our vets early on in the season and see if we have a shot at making the playoffs. Once we don't make the playoffs, have a fire sale and secure some picks and get probably the 10th pick.

Starters: Murray,DDR,Gay,LYLES,LMA
Second unit: Murray, Lonnie, KJ, and Mills, and Zeller.

They’re not dropping Poeltl. He’s a restricted FA and there isn’t a massive amount of cap space (especially if COVID impacts it). There are other FAs that will eat up those teams’ cap space, unless they end up striking out. Spurs shouldn’t have to pay much more than the MLE to keep him.

I’d then ship out Aldridge for an asset. Higher on him than others, but if you can bring back a decent pick, you do it. Poeltl can start for you at a much lower price.

If viewing next year as a rebuilding year, it’s not the worst idea to use some of Aldridge’s outgoing salary to take in salaries other teams are looking to shed.

Doubt this happens if Pop is coming back for another year though.

[r0drig0lac]

-if there was a possibility to create space to offer a contract to Ingram, that would be my choice
-if Gay's contract can be used to acquire Randle I would do it too
UFA
- Ibaka
- Gallo
- Harkless
- Bertans
- Crowder
- Rondae

[DAF86]

-if there was a possibility to create space to offer a contract to Ingram, that would be my choice
-if Gay's contract can be used to acquire Randle I would do it too
UFA
- Ibaka
- Gallo
- Harkless
- Bertans
- Crowder
- Rondae

We had Bertans :bang

[exstatic]

Talk for yourself son. Me and some others were calling him the best guard on the roster by the end of his rookie season.

Yup. He came up and just wrecked shit for about 20 games at the end. He shot like 60% from 3. It was just a gut punch when he was hobbled the next season with plantar fasciaitis.

[Dejounte]

Yup. He came up and just wrecked shit for about 20 games at the end. He shot like 60% from 3. It was just a gut punch when he was hobbled the next season with plantar fasciaitis.

Man, get the hell out of here with that bullshit. Derrick didn't wreck shit on the NBA court in 20 games in his rookie year.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/whitede01/gamelog/2018/

Hate when people refuse to check on their lies first before they start saying shit that fits their narrative.

[Dhbsr555]

Can we package dd for draft picks

[Sugus]

Can we package dd for draft picks

It's probably more like package DD with draft picks, than for, tbh. If he opts in, and the salary cap stays flat, I don't see many teams where he's a good fit, and have contracts they can dispose of to match DD's huge salary, and the Spurs don't think it's a bad return, AND on top of that, they're willing to offer picks to us in return? Yeah, I'm drawing blanks there.

[DAF86]

Man, get the hell out of here with that bullshit. Derrick didn't wreck shit on the NBA court in 20 games in his rookie year.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/whitede01/gamelog/2018/

Hate when people refuse to check on their lies first before they start saying shit that fits their narrative.

Dude, you have anger management issues. :lol

Perhaps exstatic exagerated with "wrecked" but the kid did good. Got some minutes, had a couple double digits games and shot 60% from 3. I remember folks were very excited about him. Some of us who followed him during G-league knew he was very special. That's why we were saying he was already the best guard on the team. There's even a thread about it that doesn't let me lie.

[Dejounte]

Dude, you have anger management issues. :lol

Perhaps exstatic exagerated with "wrecked" but the kid did good. Got some minutes, had a couple double digits games and shot 60% from 3. I remember folks were very excited about him. Some of us who followed him during G-league knew he was very special. That's why we were saying he was already the best guard on the team. There's even a thread about it that doesn't let me lie.

Bro, I have a Derrick White jersey. Dont pretend as if youre someone special for believing he was good during his rookie year. I had threads saying the same thing as well. I'm not against White. White is actually one of my favorite players. Like I said, I just hate when people make up shit. Exaggerating is not a minor thing, it's a harmful thing especially when people run away with it and start believing it.

[BackHome]

It's probably more like package DD with draft picks, than for, tbh. If he opts in, and the salary cap stays flat, I don't see many teams where he's a good fit, and have contracts they can dispose of to match DD's huge salary, and the Spurs don't think it's a bad return, AND on top of that, they're willing to offer picks to us in return? Yeah, I'm drawing blanks there.

Only teams I think that could happen would be Boston, Nets, Orlando, and Philly. Of those four teams I think DEROZZ would sign off on a trade. The only two teams I think LMA would sign off on would be Miami 23rd pick and Portland 14th pick. Maybe trade Rudy for Boston 30th pick or Philly 34th pick not sure who we would take back as far as players. I just would rather get something before they walk the following year.

[Sugus]

Only teams I think that could happen would be Boston, Nets, Orlando, and Philly. Of those four teams I think DEROZZ would sign off on a trade. The only two teams I think LMA would sign off on would be Miami 23rd pick and Portland 14th pick. Maybe trade Rudy for Boston 30th pick or Philly 34th pick not sure who we would take back as far as players. I just would rather get something before they walk the following year.

Boston? They have two young, All-Star level wing players who are damn good but ball dominant, not to mention Hayward who's being paid the Supermax. DeMar doesn't fit there and neither does his contract. The Nets are probably going to roll back their team with a healthy Durant+Irving, at least for a season, to see how everything works out before they make such a drastic change as adding a third ball-dominant star; not to mention KI & KD are both being paid maxes as well. Orlando has just lost Isaac for probably all of next season and is far from needing an aging DeRozan for immediate contention; and Philly has enough stars with no outside shot to be taking a serious look at a player like DeMar. None of those teams have any realistic desire or need to get an overpaid DeRozan, especially on a year where the cap isn't rising.

LMA is easier to sell as a player but I am still skeptical that he'd be traded. Rudy is the most likely one to me, to be shipped off, especially since he's proving he still has some value in this bubble play. I could see a team throw a late first-rounder to get him. I'd be happy to trade any of the three before they walk out on us, so I'm looking forward to being proven wrong, tbh.

[gambit1990]

i wonder how much the spurs will offer torrey craig.

[RC_Drunkford]

Jerami Grant would fit like a glove. Spurs need a mobile 4 that can block shots, guard multiple positons and shoot the 3-ball. He should demand a little more than MLE money, so some type of trade needs to happen

[Kevin]

I would imagine Derozen opts in with all the covid questions marks looming over the off-season. It still feels like one of him or LMA should be traded for young pieces and picks. It hard to ignore the improved chemistry with LMA gone.

[BWS-1994]

Jerami Grant would fit like a glove. Spurs need a mobile 4 that can block shots, guard multiple positons and shoot the 3-ball. He should demand a little more than MLE money, so some type of trade needs to happen

If I remember right, he turned down a $9 million extension because he’s looking for something bigger.

[kht]

Why would DDR opt-in? He showed out this bubble. He could be trash next season and get a worse deal.

[BWS-1994]

Why would DDR opt-in? He showed out this bubble. He could be trash next season and get a worse deal.

Less teams with enough cap space this coming season.

[gambit1990]

demar will opt in.

[gambit1990]

man, white / keldon / bertans would've been a neat trio...

[RC_Drunkford]

If I remember right, he turned down a $9 million extension because he’s looking for something bigger.

yeah but with the Corona break, how much would he get on a market where most teams don't even have cap space? Maybe 12-13, but not more. Plus he wants to start and the Spurs can guarantee him a spot in the starting 5.

[Degoat]

I bet Demar opts out but the spurs resign him for more years but less per year, 4 year/92 million deal incoming

[exstatic]

I would imagine Derozen opts in with all the covid questions marks looming over the off-season. It still feels like one of him or LMA should be traded for young pieces and picks. It hard to ignore the improved chemistry with LMA gone.

On the contrary, I think he opts out. Woj already dropped the news that the cap will be the same next year, so he can get the same type of deal that FAs got last summer. They’re going to smooth the cap, but if that doesn’t work,and it has to drop in the near future, this may be the best year to be a FA. he will also be the top of the class, if you assume that AD resigns with the Lakers as a matter of course.

[Chinook]

On the contrary, I think he opts out. Woj already dropped the news that the cap will be the same next year, so he can get the same type of deal that FAs got last summer. They’re going to smooth the cap, but if that doesn’t work,and it has to drop in the near future, this may be the best year to be a FA. he will also be the top of the class, if you assume that AD resigns with the Lakers as a matter of course.

Teams usually don't sign multiyear contracts thinking only about the current cap climate. Last July, there wasn't even a hint that COVID would would be a thing, nor that the NBA and China would have a falling out. Teams had no reason to believe the cap wasn't going to keep rising. A team last year would've signed a player assuming the contract would either remain the same percentage of the cap or drop, even if the salary kept going up. This year, the cap won't dot that, and all the teams know it. You might well see a lot more one-year deals due to the teams and not the players. You might also see declining contracts instead of increasing ones.

I wouldn't be surprised if DeRozan gets an extend-and-trade, with the extension being for a smaller APY. It makes the most sense for everyone involved. The Spurs get something back. DeRozan doesn't have to play the market, gets a wider selection of teams that could bring him on and keeps his final-year salary. The new team gets to offload some bad money and gets DeRozan without having to fight other teams in free agency.

[Seventyniner]

I wouldn't be surprised if DeRozan gets an extend-and-trade, with the extension being for a smaller APY. It makes the most sense for everyone involved. The Spurs get something back. DeRozan doesn't have to play the market, gets a wider selection of teams that could bring him on and keeps his final-year salary. The new team gets to offload some bad money and gets DeRozan without having to fight other teams in free agency.

Do you have any particular "bad money" in mind, and what other assets the other team might include to compensate for what would probably be a talent downgrade for the Spurs? You mentioned Wiggins in the past, and while that player/contract combo is awful, GS has a great draft pick to offer.

Edit: something like DeRozan (extended) + Gay for Wiggins, Green, and their 1st works, even if having Green on the Spurs makes me throw up. It allows GS to dump Wiggins's terrible contract and lets them avoid having to pay Curry, Thompson, DeRozan, and Green at the same time. Them insisting on getting back the Spurs' pick (likely #10-11) is a bridge too far for me, though. Just throwing stuff at the wall here, I doubt GS would take that.

[TDMVPDPOY]

lol dd getting a loyalty contract cause he fits in the culture...at the expense of the spurs still being a pretender team making up the numbers for a 1st round exit or barely making the playoffs...

[DAF86]

Jerami Grant would fit like a glove. Spurs need a mobile 4 that can block shots, guard multiple positons and shoot the 3-ball. He should demand a little more than MLE money, so some type of trade needs to happen

Grant has always been a desire of mine. My only problem with him was his 3pt shooting. He now has two solid seasons on that regard to show it isn't a fluke. He would be an ideal match. I don't see how we can get him though. But if he's willing to accept the MLE, he should be priority #1, 2, 3 and 4. He's the perfect fit.

Maybe sign and trade with Denver? I would have no problem with paying Grant Dejounte's money. Grant for Murray straight up. Maybe add a second rounder if needed to get their attention.

[Chinook]

Do you have any particular "bad money" in mind, and what other assets the other team might include to compensate for what would probably be a talent downgrade for the Spurs? You mentioned Wiggins in the past, and while that player/contract combo is awful, GS has a great draft pick to offer.

Edit: something like DeRozan (extended) + Gay for Wiggins, Green, and their 1st works, even if having Green on the Spurs makes me throw up. It allows GS to dump Wiggins's terrible contract and lets them avoid having to pay Curry, Thompson, DeRozan, and Green at the same time. Them insisting on getting back the Spurs' pick (likely #10-11) is a bridge too far for me, though. Just throwing stuff at the wall here, I doubt GS would take that.

Spit-balling, but Orlando could be regretting the Ross and Aminu deals and think moving on from them and getting and extended DeRozan is worth 15. It's not horrible money, but Miami might decide to short circuit the summer of 2021 and get DeRozan, especially if he's signing a cheaper extension. They'd send Iggy and Olynyk over to match salary. Young and Satoransky have surprisingly huge contracts with partial guarantees in 2021. Could be worth a pick swap for them to clear their cap and get a talent upgrade. Not a multi-year deal, but Conley's salary is horrible, and he's been a huge bust with the team. Somehow, the team has their first-rounder this year, and using it to turn Conley into DeRozan and Gay could be the kind a move that a GM makes trying desperately to cover up for his horrible move last season. Sacramento always seems to have bad contracts to throw around, and Portland could probably use DeRozan more than Aldridge to do what Melo has been doing for them but adding more play-making.

Surprisingly, there isn't a ton of bad money out there anymore. There are still deals like Wiggins and Rozier, but I don't really see those team's trading them and giving up value.

[Chinook]

I'm not paying Grant huge money or trading Murray-plus for him. We're talking about a guy who was basically a net-neutral player. I'd vomit giving him Murray's contract. He's certainly not the perfect fit for the SL. They'd have to hope to upgrade him if they'd want to make noise. If Denver wanted DJM, there are better targets on their roster, whether that's a direct trade or something involving other teams. If Grant isn't hanging around for the MLE, he's an easy pass.

[DAF86]

Spit-balling, but Orlando could be regretting the Ross and Aminu deals and think moving on from them and getting and extended DeRozan is worth 15. It's not horrible money, but Miami might decide to short circuit the summer of 2021 and get DeRozan, especially if he's signing a cheaper extension. They'd send Iggy and Olynyk over to match salary. Young and Satoransky have surprisingly huge contracts with partial guarantees in 2021. Could be worth a pick swap for them to clear their cap and get a talent upgrade. Not a multi-year deal, but Conley's salary is horrible, and he's been a huge bust with the team. Somehow, the team has their first-rounder this year, and using it to turn Conley into DeRozan and Gay could be the kind a move that a GM makes trying desperately to cover up for his horrible move last season. Sacramento always seems to have bad contracts to throw around, and Portland could probably use DeRozan more than Aldridge to do what Melo has been doing for them but adding more play-making.

Surprisingly, there isn't a ton of bad money out there anymore. There are still deals like Wiggins and Rozier, but I don't really see those team's trading them and giving up value.

Shooting 3 pointers?

[Chinook]

Shooting 3 pointers?

I don't think they have him out there specifically to do that as much as for him to be an offensive threat. He can shoot much better than DeRozan, but he can't penetrate for shit anymore. The lack of perimeter play-making outside of Lillard is a big reason why the Blazers can't seem to move on from CJ McCollum.

[DAF86]

I'm not paying Grant huge money or trading Murray-plus for him. We're talking about a guy who was basically a net-neutral player. I'd vomit giving him Murray's contract. He's certainly not the perfect fit for the SL. They'd have to hope to upgrade him if they'd want to make noise. If Denver wanted DJM, there are better targets on their roster, whether that's a direct trade or something involving other teams. If Grant isn't hanging around for the MLE, he's an easy pass.

How's Grant not a perfect fit? 6'8" guy with a massive 7'3" wingspan. Can play either forward position and even some center on smaller lineups. Can defend on the perimeter as well as being a rim protector. An above average 3pt shooter and can also put the ball on the floor and attack. He's exactly the type of player we are desperately lacking.

Oh, and he's 26, same age as White. He fits perfectly with the window of our young core. I would much rather pay him what we owe Murray. An astronomical better fit next to White, Keldon and Walker than Murray will ever be.

I would like to know who do you consider better fits than him.

[DAF86]

I don't think they have him out there specifically to do that as much as for him to be an offensive threat. He can shoot much better than DeRozan, but he can't penetrate for shit anymore. The lack of perimeter play-making outside of Lillard is a big reason why the Blazers can't seem to move on from CJ McCollum.

DeRozan would be an awful fit next to such a ball dominant player like Lillard. And then you also have McCollum. Carmelo >> DeRozan for the Blazers as currently constructed.

[alpha_HaZE]

Chinook dropping knowledge and making sense and :LOL at those clowns who have no clue about b-ball disagreeing :lol

[gambit1990]

DeRozan would be an awful fit next to such a ball dominant player like Lillard. And then you also have McCollum. Carmelo >> DeRozan for the Blazers as currently constructed.

[DAF86]

Chinook dropping knowledge and making sense and :LOL at those clowns who have no clue about b-ball disagreeing :lol

Look at you with all that butt licking. :lol

Let me guess, you are a hardcore Murray fan. That's the only reason I find to not wanting to trade Grant for Murray straight up, tbh.

[alpha_HaZE]

Look at you with all that butt licking. :lol

Let me guess, you are a hardcore Murray fan. That's the only reason I find to not wanting to trade Grant for Murray straight up, tbh.

Derrick White, Lonnie Walker IV, and Keldon Jonhson. Murray, just like Jakob, complains too much. But having said that, you are nuts to trade him for Grant, if Grant was so good why he was in five teams in the last eight years? Oh, I see you look at numbers his measurements; 6'8" guy with a massive 7'3" wingspan, :lol

You are a dumbass, at 23 years old DJ has much better numbers than Grant! Even currently 23 vs 25 he has higher PER, VORP, TRB, AST, STL,..

[alpha_HaZE]

Look at you with all that butt licking. :lol

Let me guess, you are a hardcore Murray fan. That's the only reason I find to not wanting to trade Grant for Murray straight up, tbh.

AND :lol at 38K+ posts, get a life you idiot, there are other things in life that being here.

[DAF86]

Derrick White, Lonnie Walker IV, and Keldon Jonhson. Murray, just like Jakob, complains too much. But having said that, you are nuts to trade him for Grant, if Grant was so good why he was in five teams in the last eight years? Oh, I see you look at numbers his measurements; 6'8" guy with a massive 7'3" wingspan, :lol

You are a dumbass, at 23 years old DJ has much better numbers than Grant! Even currently 23 vs 25 he has higher PER, VORP, TRB, AST, STL,..

I have watched him play plenty. Have you?


Grant has always been a desire of mine. My only problem with him was his 3pt shooting. He now has two solid seasons on that regard to show it isn't a fluke. He would be an ideal match. I don't see how we can get him though. But if he's willing to accept the MLE, he should be priority #1, 2, 3 and 4. He's the perfect fit.

Maybe sign and trade with Denver? I would have no problem with paying Grant Dejounte's money. Grant for Murray straight up. Maybe add a second rounder if needed to get their attention.

Like I said earlier on this thread, I have always loved Grant's game. He had pretty much everything you can ask for from a role playing forward except a jumpshot. Now that he has developed a three point shot, he will be a beast. There's a reason he declined a 9 millions per year resign offer.

Do you have any counter argument to make regarding Grant's play or you just know him from stat checking a couple of minutes ago?

[DAF86]

AND :lol at 38K+ posts, get a life you idiot, there are other things in life that being here.

Over a 12 years span. That translates to 8 posts per day. That's less than your friend Chinook. Are you calling him a no-life loser too? :lol

Anyways, thanks for going straight to the personal attacks. It clarifies your emotional and intelligence levels for me, tbh. :lol Have a good one son. :toast

[alpha_HaZE]

Over a 12 years span. That translates to 8 posts per day. That's less than your friend Chinook. Are you calling him a no-life loser too? :lol

Anyways, thanks for going straight to the personal attacks. It clarifies your emotional and intelligence levels for me, tbh. :lol Have a good one son. :toast

Sure, you win the argument, 8 posts a day, that's a lot ;)

You are telling me you have been here every single day for over a decade? wtf, don't you have a life????

[alpha_HaZE]

I have watched him play plenty. Have you?



Like I said earlier on this thread, I have always loved Grant's game. He had pretty much everything you can ask for from a role playing forward except a jumpshot. Now that he has developed a three point shot, he will be a beast. There's a reason he declined a 9 millions per year resign offer.

Do you have any counter argument to make regarding Grant's play or you just know him from stat checking a couple of minutes ago?

five teams in eight years should tell you all you need to know.

[DAF86]

Sure, you win the argument, 8 posts a day, that's a lot ;)

You are telling me you have been here every single day for over a decade? tf, don't you have a life????

Nop, that's just the average, tbh. If I post 16 times one day and none the other, you get 8 on average. That's how math works my friend.

[DAF86]

five teams in eight years should tell you all you need to know.

That's quite the hypocritical reply coming from the guy that accused me of just checking Grant's measurements to start a "sign him up" campaign, tbh. :lol

So, you are just going to dismiss a player because of the number of teams he played in without even knowing how well he's playing right now? I thought you were part of the knowledge dropping group son. :lol

Did you know that Bruce Bowen switched teams 5 times in 7 years before getting to the Spurs? Is that good enough of a knowledge drop for you son?

[Chinook]

How's Grant not a perfect fit? 6'8" guy with a massive 7'3" wingspan. Can play either forward position and even some center on smaller lineups. Can defend on the perimeter as well as being a rim protector. An above average 3pt shooter and can also put the ball on the floor and attack. He's exactly the type of player we are desperately lacking.

Oh, and he's 26, same age as White. He fits perfectly with the window of our young core. I would much rather pay him what we owe Murray. An astronomical better fit next to White, Keldon and Walker than Murray will ever be.

I would like to know who do you consider better fits than him.

When we're talking about perfect fits, not the best fit right now. Grant isn't the lead-dog, first-option PF the team needs to move into contending status, nor is he the ace defender the team needs to make up for playing White, Walker and Johnson. In your mind, Johnson moves to the two and the team finds another 6-8 guy to be the SF. That SF would pretty much have to be one of those two previously mentioned archetypes. So it's basically Grant replacing Walker and the team having the same needs. According to 82games.com (which to be fair is a weird site), Grant was basically a slightly negative man defender at either forward position, and that lines up with his other impact stats being meh to poor. RPM actually had him as a solidly bad player on both sides of the ball, even with his shooting.

I like him more than his bad stats suggest I should, but I'm not giving him a huge contract nor considering him as locking down the PF position for years. They'd still have to upgrade, with that pick doing all the work in determining the team's fate, and I'm not paying a vet that much money if he's just going to replace Walker and not fill his own hole.


DeRozan would be an awful fit next to such a ball dominant player like Lillard. And then you also have McCollum. Carmelo >> DeRozan for the Blazers as currently constructed.

DeRozan doesn't use more possessions than McCollum does. The Blazers didn't just sign Melo to shoot. There are other spacing bigs out there nowadays. They wanted offensive upside, especially for when Lillard is on the bench. DeRozan can do that better than Melo can. If the Blazers don't make it to the playoffs this year, I think they have to make a more dramatic move. Simply building around Lillard and not increasing their talent level isn't going to be enough.

[RC_Drunkford]

I wouldn’t trade anybody for Grant. But Grant clearly wants to start. And he won’t get much more than the MLE, matter of fact he might be attainable for the MLE with the cap not rising. There are not a lot of teams with cap space out there. I don’t see anybody throwing more than 13 million per year at him

[spurspl]

as a player: grant>>murray
as a fit to recent spurs roster: grant>>>>>>>murray

swapin murray for grant would be a great move

[Excessive Egotist]

I haven't read every comment in this thread relative to Grant, so forgive me if this is repeating. He's at the top of my free agent wish list too. He wants a raise, but I'd argue he makes his market value, particularly in this market. 4/48 is probably the outer reaches of an overpay I would stomach, but I'd be fine with this as part of a sign and trade for Mills or Aldridge. If Aldridge, we'd also have to get some other compensation back.

A lot depends on how the Spurs fare in the lottery--they may draft big. But even if they do well in the lottery and draft big, I'd still take Grant.

The Nuggets need to create playing time for Porter Jr and need to watch their salary cap very closely with Porter Jr's eventual max contract on the horizon. One of Grant, Harris, or Barton will be dealt or, in the case of Grant, potentially renounced. This is why a Mills sign and trade may not be agreeable to Denver. Mills' number is fine, the deal is short term, his shot making would work well in their offense. Mills and Mulitinov for Grant could be attractive to Denver too.

It seems that the Spurs' offseason will be mid level, bi-annual, and two rookies. They'll have to create a little space if they want to retain Poeltl and Forbes. Jerami Grant will want more than the mid level, assuming it's adjusted down from its current projection, so a sign and trade seems like the only suitable option. There are lots of ways the Spurs could create some salary cap comfort (for the Holts) in order to retain their restricted free agents. As one example, Hollinger thinks trading Gay into the Warriors' trade exception for Iguodala and taking back a pick from Golden State is smart for each team. I agree.

[exstatic]

I haven't read every comment in this thread relative to Grant, so forgive me if this is repeating. He's at the top of my free agent wish list too. He wants a raise, but I'd argue he makes his market value, particularly in this market. 12/48 is probably the outer reaches of an overpay I would stomach, but I'd be fine with this as part of a sign and trade for Mills or Aldridge. If Aldridge, we'd also have to get some other compensation back.

A lot depends on how the Spurs fare in the lottery--they may draft big. But even if they do well in the lottery and draft big, I'd still take Grant.

The Nuggets need to create playing time for Porter Jr and need to watch their salary cap very closely with Porter Jr's eventual max contract on the horizon. One of Grant, Harris, or Barton will be dealt or, in the case of Grant, potentially renounced. This is why a Mills sign and trade may not be agreeable to Denver. Mills' number is fine, the deal is short term, his shot making would work well in their offense. Mills and Mulitinov for Grant could be attractive to Denver too.

It seems that the Spurs' offseason will be mid level, bi-annual, and two rookies. They'll have to create a little space if they want to retain Poeltl and Forbes. Jerami Grant will want more than the mid level, assuming it's adjusted down from its current projection, so a sign and trade seems like the only suitable option. There are lots of ways the Spurs could create some salary cap comfort (for the Holts) in order to retain their restricted free agents. As one example, Hollinger thinks trading Gay into the Warriors' trade exception for Iguodala and taking back a pick from Golden State is smart for each team. I agree.
12/48 is a steal! That’s only $4M per year.

[Excessive Egotist]

12/48 is a steal! That’s only $4M per year.

Silly math typo. I meant 4/48. Thanks for catching it.

[look_at_g_shred]

I don't have much faith in the current GM at evaluating talent/need for this team. Last year's big acquisition was........Carrol.

[BackHome]

Yeah who ever brought up and signed Carroll should be fired.

[SAGirl]

I'm not paying Grant huge money or trading Murray-plus for him. We're talking about a guy who was basically a net-neutral player. I'd vomit giving him Murray's contract. He's certainly not the perfect fit for the SL. They'd have to hope to upgrade him if they'd want to make noise. If Denver wanted DJM, there are better targets on their roster, whether that's a direct trade or something involving other teams. If Grant isn't hanging around for the MLE, he's an easy pass.
I'd say this kind of situation is the one that shows the value of picking up good players in the draft (even if we aren't talking about stars of which there is usually only a couple in most drafts, and some are bare), instead of having Luka Samanic being 2 years away... (if that), but you know. If he had developed enough this season to look like he could be a contributor next season (you know like other youngsters have) that would be different. Right now it's like empty space but taking a spot in the roster.

[SAGirl]

How's Grant not a perfect fit? 6'8" guy with a massive 7'3" wingspan. Can play either forward position and even some center on smaller lineups. Can defend on the perimeter as well as being a rim protector. An above average 3pt shooter and can also put the ball on the floor and attack. He's exactly the type of player we are desperately lacking.

Oh, and he's 26, same age as White. He fits perfectly with the window of our young core. I would much rather pay him what we owe Murray. An astronomical better fit next to White, Keldon and Walker than Murray will ever be.

I would like to know who do you consider better fits than him.
Don't worry, RC got us Luka Samanic :smokin

[DAF86]

When we're talking about perfect fits, not the best fit right now. Grant isn't the lead-dog, first-option PF the team needs to move into contending status, nor is he the ace defender the team needs to make up for playing White, Walker and Johnson. In your mind, Johnson moves to the two and the team finds another 6-8 guy to be the SF. That SF would pretty much have to be one of those two previously mentioned archetypes. So it's basically Grant replacing Walker and the team having the same needs. According to 82games.com (which to be fair is a weird site), Grant was basically a slightly negative man defender at either forward position, and that lines up with his other impact stats being meh to poor. RPM actually had him as a solidly bad player on both sides of the ball, even with his shooting.

I like him more than his bad stats suggest I should, but I'm not giving him a huge contract nor considering him as locking down the PF position for years. They'd still have to upgrade, with that pick doing all the work in determining the team's fate, and I'm not paying a vet that much money if he's just going to replace Walker and not fill his own hole.

I said Grant is A perfecto fit, not THE most perfecto fit. The Spurs need two forwards. One 3 and D type and the other, ideally, a playmaking first option to put us back on contender status. Grant fullfills one of those roles (with the added bonus that he can also play some center).

I understand people not wanting to pay him around 16 millions per year, but my question to them is: would you rather pay Murray that? My Grant for Murray trade contemplates the idea of lessening the mistake that was giving Murray that kind of money. Sure, Grant might be a bit overpaid at that price, but it's still better to transform that contract into a 7'3" wingspan having 40% 3pt shooter, than to a 6'5" fringe rotational player, tbh.

I read Mills for Grant. I would be down with that too.

[TD 21]

Grant isn't going anywhere. The moment they acquired him it was clear they'd let Millsap go in the off season, re-sign him and promote him to starting "PF".

I'd expect the Spurs free agency to be mostly, if not entirely internal. Even if some combination of the "mid 3" is traded, they'll probably plug those holes in said trade(s).

[DAF86]

Grant isn't going anywhere. The moment they acquired him it was clear they'd let Millsap go in the off season, re-sign him and promote him to starting "PF".

I'd expect the Spurs free agency to be mostly, if not entirely internal. Even if some combination of the "mid 3" is traded, they'll probably plug those holes in said trade(s).

To me it also makes more sense for the Nuggets to let Millsap go and keep Grant. The thing that intrigues me is that the Nuggets already offered Grant an extension and he declined it. Also, the Nuggets have Porter Jr. And Bol Bol on that position for the future. After seeing Grant reject them, and seeing what they have in store, they may think: "screw it, go away if you want".

[spurspl]

To me it also makes more sense for the Nuggets to let Millsap go and keep Grant. The thing that intrigues me is that the Nuggets already offered Grant an extension and he declined it. Also, the Nuggets have Porter Jr. And Bol Bol on that position for the future. After seeing Grant reject them, and seeing what they have in store, they may think: "screw it, go away if you want".

agree, theyre stuck woth forwards and centers. theres a chance that grant will
opt out. the other guy i think will opt out and can be usefull for the spurs is andre drummond

[TD 21]

To me it also makes more sense for the Nuggets to let Millsap go and keep Grant. The thing that intrigues me is that the Nuggets already offered Grant an extension and he declined it. Also, the Nuggets have Porter Jr. And Bol Bol on that position for the future. After seeing Grant reject them, and seeing what they have in store, they may think: "screw it, go away if you want".

He declined his player option because he knows he can exceed it. They gave up their 1st, have a shot to be legit contenders next season and beyond and need him because he's the perfect fit with Jokic.

Porter Jr. will be their starting "SF" going forward and Bol will be the backup C. The only possible rotational hole is backup "PF", but Bates-Diop might be able to fill it.

[RC_Drunkford]

Grant isn't going anywhere. The moment they acquired him it was clear they'd let Millsap go in the off season, re-sign him and promote him to starting "PF".

I'd expect the Spurs free agency to be mostly, if not entirely internal. Even if some combination of the "mid 3" is traded, they'll probably plug those holes in said trade(s).

That means we will sign Millsap. He's 35, that's right around the age that Pop likes his players at

[DAF86]

He declined his player option because he knows he can exceed it. They gave up their 1st, have a shot to be legit contenders next season and beyond and need him because he's the perfect fit with Jokic.

Porter Jr. will be their starting "SF" going forward and Bol will be the backup C. The only possible rotational hole is backup "PF", but Bates-Diop might be able to fill it.

Oh, I thought he had refused an actual contract extension, my bad. Yeah, they might want to keep him then. It would be the smart thing to do.

[spurspl]

That means we will sign Millsap. He's 35, that's right around the age that Pop likes his players at

sad but true

[alpha_HaZE]

Nop, that's just the average, tbh. If I post 16 times one day and none the other, you get 8 on average. That's how math works my friend.

Dang 16 times a day, wow. I am out, just replying to you I reached my quota for a month lol

Seriously, find a hobby, go for a walk, do something productive.

Regarding your comment on 5 teams in 8 years, and Bruce Bowen, I will tell you this there is only one Bruce Bowen meaning is the exception, not the rule. If he was so good why teams were so eager to get rid of him?

Again, no surprise when you argue without common sense you post that much crap.

[Chinook]

I said Grant is A perfecto fit, not THE most perfecto fit. The Spurs need two forwards. One 3 and D type and the other, ideally, a playmaking first option to put us back on contender status. Grant fullfills one of those roles (with the added bonus that he can also play some center).

He's not a defensive forward. He's not even a good defender statistically, not impact, not one-on-one, not by metric. He's not a perfect fit at all, because you have to get someone else to be the guy you want Grant to be. I don't want to make this a semantic thing, but he doesn't check any box other than the arbitrary one you made about size, so there's nothing perfect about his fit.


I understand people not wanting to pay him around 16 millions per year, but my question to them is: would you rather pay Murray that?

Yes. And remember that I'm not a Murray stan by any means. You could sell me on a Murray/Grant deal is SA saved a lot of money by doing it. But no, I don't want Grant locked into a big deal any more than Murray. With DJM, you know there's a chance he look good again and can be traded later. For Grant, even you suggested he's at his ceiling now, so you're talking about paying him for his ideal production without much chance to get more value out of him. That's bad for a team that isn't a contender.


I read Mills for Grant. I would be down with that too.

I'm not trading anything for Grant unless he's signed cheaply, and I wouldn't pay to make it happen. It's not clear that Grant would be a long-term starter on the Spurs any more than he's been anywhere else in the league. I get that you like him and why you like him. But objectively, he's a meh player with a good body. If you're going to trade Murray, trade him for value or even to just get out of his deal. Don't trade him just to have a peaking guy who won't make the Spurs a stable playoff team but signed to the same contract.

[DAF86]

Dang 16 times a day, wow. I am out, just replying to you I reached my quota for a month lol

16 posts, you get to that in a game thread while watching a game, tbh. :lol


Seriously, find a hobby, go for a walk, do something productive.

I work, I'm currently studying for a postgraduate degree, I play football, tennis, have barbacues with friend three times per week and I go out to the club with my girl every weekend (well, when we could :lol). I'm pretty happy with the life I'm living, tbh.

Posting on Spurstalk doesn't take that much time son. It's like chating with friends on WhatsApp. You just take out your cellphone anywhere and post a comment. :lol


Regarding your comment on 5 teams in 8 years, and Bruce Bowen, I will tell you this there is only one Bruce Bowen meaning is the exception, not the rule. If he was so good why teams were so eager to get rid of him?

Again, no surprise when you argue without common sense you post that much crap.

-Lou Williams: 7 teams on 7 years.
-Chauncey Billups: 6 teams on 8 years.
-Ben Wallace: 6 teams on 7 years.
-Rasheed Wallace: 4 teams on 5 years.
-Hedo Turkoglu: 3 teams in 3 years.
-Antwan Jamison: 3 teams in 3 years.

And I can keep going. Stop embarrassing yourself and just walk away, tbh.

[R. DeMurre]

There are a few gettable guys (not free agents, not stars) that'd I'd be really happy with: Bjelica, Satoransky, Rodions Kurucs... I don't see the Spurs doing much in free agency, though I'd love to see anything that involves moving DeRozan.

[DAF86]

He's not a defensive forward. He's not even a good defender statistically, not impact, not one-on-one, not by metric. He's not a perfect fit at all, because you have to get someone else to be the guy you want Grant to be. I don't want to make this a semantic thing, but he doesn't check any box other than the arbitrary one you made about size, so there's nothing perfect about his fit.



Yes. And remember that I'm not a Murray stan by any means. You could sell me on a Murray/Grant deal is SA saved a lot of money by doing it. But no, I don't want Grant locked into a big deal any more than Murray. With DJM, you know there's a chance he look good again and can be traded later. For Grant, even you suggested he's at his ceiling now, so you're talking about paying him for his ideal production without much chance to get more value out of him. That's bad for a team that isn't a contender.



I'm not trading anything for Grant unless he's signed cheaply, and I wouldn't pay to make it happen. It's not clear that Grant would be a long-term starter on the Spurs any more than he's been anywhere else in the league. I get that you like him and why you like him. But objectively, he's a meh player with a good body. If you're going to trade Murray, trade him for value or even to just get out of his deal. Don't trade him just to have a peaking guy who won't make the Spurs a stable playoff team but signed to the same contract.

Murray is the worst prospect out of a platoon of combo guards that we have in the roster and it's the one that it's gonna get paid the most. Having already commited the mistake, I proposed an idea to lessen it (not fix it). If we already have a bunch of 6'5", 6'6" guys with similar skillsets, why not turn our worst prospect out of that bunch (and the one that is going to get paid the most) into a 26 years old, 6'8" guy with a 7'3" wingspan that shoots 40% from 3? I agree with you that Grant's defensive potential is more that (potential) than a reality so far, but he has all the tools and with a defined starting role I think he would maximize his defensive potential. If he pans out, 16 millions per year isn't that steep a price to pay for for a 40% 3 pt shooter that can defend 1 through 5, tbh. Worst case scenario, he remains a slightly above average defender that can defend multiple positions while providing shooting, size and elite athleticism. That's definitely worth more than what Murray brings to the table.

[Truth4sale$]

Honestly, the Spurs dont need a free agent just look at the (D.Caroll debacle)
They do better with developing from within.(D.White)
The Spurs need to see what they have with this young core plus the draft pick. They wont win next year with a healthy Golden State and an improving Phoenix Sun team and charging Grizzles. If the draft is to be better next year as experts say it is better to let the team develop and add a high caliber pick and then fill in with free agency. By that time the "veterans of the Spurs way" will be White and Walker Iv, Keldon and possibly Murray and maybe even Patty Mills for transition

[Chinook]

Murray is the worst prospect out of a platoon of combo guards that we have in the roster and it's the one that it's gonna get paid the most. Having already commited the mistake, I proposed an idea to lessen it (not fix it). If we already have a bunch of 6'5", 6'6" guys with similar skillsets, why not turn our worst prospect out of that bunch (and the one that is going to get paid the most) into a 26 years old, 6'8" guy with a 7'3" wingspan that shoots 40% from 3?

None of the Spurs' players have redundant skill-sets. I know you're all about height, but that doesn't mean you can look at White, Walker, Murray and Johnson and think they're the same player.

But with Murray, the best strategy is to wait on him and see if either a trade (one for actual value) comes up or if he can figure it out. I don't love his contract, but he's not on a Wiggins-level deal. I doubt PATFO are even worried about it right now. If White gets paid and Lonnie starts looking like he'll need a big extension, then the salary will start to hamper the team. But even with Murray on the books, the Spurs should have enough cap space for almost two max slots in 2021. Basically, the contract isn't so bad that literally any contract is better. Grant will not be a good contract if he has Murray's deal. He won't be a good trade asset either.


I agree with you that Grant's defensive potential is more that (potential) than a reality so far, but he has all the tools and with a defined starting role I think he would maximize his defensive potential.

I think at this point Grant's potential is shaky at best. He's been a highly regarded player on multiple teams now. I don't think he's been lacking for opportunities. He's better than Lyles has been, but Lyles is cheaper, as incumbency advantage and fills a three-and-D role better than Grant has so far in his career. I wouldn't give Lyles a big deal either, but at least they have the chance to see him in a second year before they commit any more salary to him.


If he pans out, 16 millions per year isn't that steep a price to pay for for a 40% 3 pt shooter that can defend 1 through 5, tbh. Worst case scenario, he remains a slightly above average defender that can defend multiple positions while providing shooting, size and elite athleticism. That's definitely worth more than what Murray brings to the table.

$16 Million isn't a ton to pay a key starter no. But it is big enough to where the guy has to be a starter for sixth man to justify his salary. We're not just talking about $16M/1 here. A sign-and-trade necessitates at least a three-year deal, so that's about $50 Million. Yes, only that first year has to be guaranteed, but Grant likely didn't opt out just to take a one-year deal with a new club. I'm thinking at least $40 Million of that has to be locked in. So if he doesn't pan out, he's an energy big with below-average defense who plays 20 minutes off the bench while making a ton of money. So like Ian Mahinmi was his last few years. That's a definite downside, and easily worse than any realistic downside Murray would have.

[DAF86]

None of the Spurs' players have redundant skill-sets. I know you're all about height, but that doesn't mean you can look at White, Walker, Murray and Johnson and think they're the same player.

But with Murray, the best strategy is to wait on him and see if either a trade (one for actual value) comes up or if he can figure it out. I don't love his contract, but he's not on a Wiggins-level deal. I doubt PATFO are even worried about it right now. If White gets paid and Lonnie starts looking like he'll need a big extension, then the salary will start to hamper the team. But even with Murray on the books, the Spurs should have enough cap space for almost two max slots in 2021. Basically, the contract isn't so bad that literally any contract is better. Grant will not be a good contract if he has Murray's deal. He won't be a good trade asset either.



I think at this point Grant's potential is shaky at best. He's been a highly regarded player on multiple teams now. I don't think he's been lacking for opportunities. He's better than Lyles has been, but Lyles is cheaper, as incumbency advantage and fills a three-and-D role better than Grant has so far in his career. I wouldn't give Lyles a big deal either, but at least they have the chance to see him in a second year before they commit any more salary to him.



$16 Million isn't a ton to pay a key starter no. But it is big enough to where the guy has to be a starter for sixth man to justify his salary. We're not just talking about $16M/1 here. A sign-and-trade necessitates at least a three-year deal, so that's about $50 Million. Yes, only that first year has to be guaranteed, but Grant likely didn't opt out just to take a one-year deal with a new club. I'm thinking at least $40 Million of that has to be locked in. So if he doesn't pan out, he's an energy big with below-average defense who plays 20 minutes off the bench while making a ton of money. So like Ian Mahinmi was his last few years. That's a definite downside, and easily worse than any realistic downside Murray would have.

To me it's simple:

Grant > Murray

PF ---> a desperately needed position
Combo guard ----> an overloaded position in the Spurs roster

Considering these things, who I would rather have for the same price? Grant without a doubt.

Apparently you think Murray is the better player. We will just have to wait and see how they both perform next season. One thing is for sure, if Murray fails, it won't be because of lack of opportunities.

[Chinook]

To me it's simple:

Grant > Murray

PF ---> a desperately needed position
Combo guard ----> an overloaded position in the Spurs roster

Considering these things, who I would rather have for the same price? Grant without a doubt.

Apparently you think Murray is the better player. We will just have to wait and see how they both perform next season. One thing is for sure, if Murray fails, it won't be because of lack of opportunities.

It's not necessarily that Murray is better than Grant. They're about equal with Murray being more effective when he's on and Grant being more consistently who he is. It's about which contract I'd rather have, and that's easily Murray for me.

[BackHome]

Like I have said over and over just move Murray to SG or make him play Danny Green role which is focus on solid defense and increase 3 point shooting. If he accepts this role I think he can be a better offensive Green since he had worked in his mid range and his 3 ball hasn’t been bad. As far as defense he is not as good as one on one defender but he is a better rebounder and can play the lanes better.

Hopefully they will release Forbes and Belli I think Mills is going to be assistant coach so I see them keeping him hopefully for cheap. It would be good time to move Rudy as his value is at an all time high right now and I think he could net us a late mid first rounder. I would entertain trades for LMA and DEROZZ but only if we get decent value back and don’t have to take back any bad money contract players.

As someone mentioned earlier maybe teams are looking at trading first picks because of weak draft and money maybe we can offer Nikola and snag a late first rounder. I would love to try and get two first round picks and grab Center Daniel Orturu.

[alpha_HaZE]

16 posts, you get to that in a game thread while watching a game, tbh. :lol



I work, I'm currently studying for a postgraduate degree, I play football, tennis, have barbacues with friend three times per week and I go out to the club with my girl every weekend (well, when we could :lol). I'm pretty happy with the life I'm living, tbh.

Posting on Spurstalk doesn't take that much time son. It's like chating with friends on WhatsApp. You just take out your cellphone anywhere and post a comment. :lol



-Lou Williams: 7 teams on 7 years.
-Chauncey Billups: 6 teams on 8 years.
-Ben Wallace: 6 teams on 7 years.
-Rasheed Wallace: 4 teams on 5 years.
-Hedo Turkoglu: 3 teams in 3 years.
-Antwan Jamison: 3 teams in 3 years.

And I can keep going. Stop embarrassing yourself and just walk away, tbh.

You are an idiot, and I will stop arguing with you after this post, you just don't get it. The 5 teams in 8 years' comment were meant for early in their career not when they are washed up. For example, Hedo you mention, teams kept him because he was good 3 years with SAC, 5 with ORL. Rasheed spent 7 years with POT. Ben the same story, if a player is good teams are not eager to trade them.

The fact that you are having BBQs and playing sports in this pandemic, confirms the idiot that you are.

[DAF86]

You are an idiot, and I will stop arguing with you after this post, you just don't get it. The 5 teams in 8 years' comment were meant for early in their career not when they are washed up. For example, Hedo you mention, teams kept him because he was good 3 years with SAC, 5 with ORL. Rasheed spent 7 years with POT. Ben the same story, if a player is good teams are not eager to trade them.

All the players I mentioned changed teams before having the best moment of their carrers, not when they were washed up. Turkoglu, for example, was from before he went to Orlando and became an all-star.


The fact that you are having BBQs and playing sports in this pandemic, confirms the idiot that you are.

Dude, I thought you were going to understand that's my regular life, not this shit infested year. And I'm the idiot. :lmao

[gambit1990]

Turkoglu
man, talk about a throwback.

[gambit1990]

iirc, spurs traded for turk, doug christie (who didn't suit up), and ron mercer (who asked for a trade and got it).

i honestly have no idea who the spurs traded to get them.

[LakerHater]

iirc, spurs traded for turk, doug christie (who didn't suit up), and ron mercer (who asked for a trade and got it).

i honestly have no idea who the spurs traded to get them.

During the 2003 offseason, Türkoğlu was traded to the San Antonio Spurs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Antonio_Spurs) along with Ron Mercer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Mercer) in a three-team trade. The trade also sent Brad Miller (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Miller_(basketball_player)) to the Kings and Scot Pollard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scot_Pollard) and Danny Ferry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Ferry) to the Pacers. Türkoğlu played one season with the Spurs